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email from Pamela Lichtenwalner

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Dave Touretzky

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Oct 24, 2004, 1:21:29 AM10/24/04
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Pamela Lichtenwalner, a special education teacher in the San Francisco
Unified School District, sent me the following email, which I am
posting for anyone interested who wants to read it. (I recently
warned her that I would post any email she sent me to ARS.) I do not
vouch for the accuracy of anything in her message, because in the past
I have seen her exaggerate or misrepresent facts about which I have
personal knowledge. And because of my concerns on that point, I have
elided the more outrageous bits that might injure innocent people.
But the rest is highly entertaining.

Cast of characters: Ford = Ford Greene, prominent anti-Scientology
attorney. Arlene = Dr. Arlene Ackerman, controverswial superintendant
of SFUSD. George = George Wynns, husband of school board member Jill
Wynns, and a self-proclaimed Scientologist. (To the best of my
knowledge, Jill Wynns is *not* herself a Scientologist, never has
been, and is aware of what a vile bunch the CoS is.) SPED stands for
Special Education; OCR is Office of Civil Rights.

-- Dave Touretzky

================================================================

Return-Path: <PSLicht...@aol.com>
From: PSLicht...@aol.com
Message-ID: <1d6.2e399d...@aol.com>
IDate: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:30:33 EDT
Subject: Saturday catch-up
To: Dave_To...@cs.cmu.edu

A lot happening; nothing for ars.

1. Ford. [deleted a long discussion of personal matters I never
wanted to hear about.]

Ford has been over at least twice the last two weeks....the pranks are
funny, people have seen him and say he looks good. He has my
permission, since the cottage seems to give him some peace. And of
course, we keep him posted.

2. If you check over the last Asimov article, you will find the name
of Steve Heilig, a representative of the SF Medical Society. Steve is
both an old friend of [deleted] and, unbeknownst to me until I spoke
with him this week, an old friend of [deleted]. Steve had been
willing to assist [deleted]. He also was willing to shield the other
drug and medical experts. SCN started in on him almost immediately.
But that's not the story. The story is that Steve got a call from a
friend connected with [deleted]. Said friend said intelligence folks
had contacted friend asking him how did his friend Steve of the SFMS
manage to piss off SCN....SCN was gunning for him. Friend called
Steve, who explained. So SCN is really being monitored by the good
guys.

Steve also called SF Mayor Gavin Newsom and told him SCN was getting
out-of-line and he wanted Mayoral and SF Chronicle editorial deploring
the situation.

I suggested to Steve that he contact both Ford and you.

3. I had 30-minute meeting with education rep from Newsom's office
yesterday. He is calm, knowledgeable and becoming very aware of the
problems with Jill, Arlene, SCN, SPED in the SFUSD. Took Moxon letter
and SFUSD reponse to show to Newsom and legal eagles. Arlene had
until a couple of weeks ago enjoyed complete Newsom support....this no
longer true as too much info was coming in from credible people like
myself. He said Nov. 2 would be pivotal. Big uproar when Bronstein
of the SF Chronicle gave support to Ackerman ....citing her financial
conservatism. However, said savings came on backs of SPED kids.
Newsom rep is viewing my Montoya video this week and checking out the
OCR finding against Ackerman. He said once the word was out Newsom
was willing to hear criticism about Arlene the info came pouring in.
Jill/George's connect with SCN was a shocker.

A SFUSD principal called Friday to tell me that George had called her
home demanding money for Jill's campaign. When she said no, he started
yelling at her. She hung up. I am urging an election complaint.

4. GSE at UCB continues to be good. Dean (who knows Jill's SCN
connection now) wants Celebration of Children's Lit this spring but
w/o consultant. Since the only consultant for many years has been Jill
.... message was received well by me. After this mess is successfully
completed, I can probably work with Jill again...but not until SCN is
over, she is away from George, etc.

Take care Dave. Lot's of other SCN stuff going on.....[deleted]
setting up narky demolition is two states.....12 to 18 more months of
serious daily effort is my educated guess until most of the SCN fangs
are pulled. They are going down hard and vicious but at least in the
SF Bay area they are bombing out badly with the politicos local,
state, feds ....the Democratic party has had it with them.

[Last bit deleted because it refers to a private matter.]

================

If I receive any further emails from Ms. Lichtenwalner I will be
sure to post them here.

EX-TRA LARGE

unread,
Oct 24, 2004, 3:05:34 AM10/24/04
to
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:

>Pamela Lichtenwalner, a special education teacher in the San Francisco
>Unified School District, sent me the following email, which I am
>posting for anyone interested who wants to read it. (I recently
>warned her that I would post any email she sent me to ARS.) I do not
>vouch for the accuracy of anything in her message, because in the past
>I have seen her exaggerate or misrepresent facts about which I have
>personal knowledge. And because of my concerns on that point, I have
>elided the more outrageous bits that might injure innocent people.

You elided them???

Wouldn't it have been wiser if you'd simply omitted them?

EX-TRA LARGE
"What is the sound of one 'intellectual' clapping?"


Dave Touretzky

unread,
Oct 24, 2004, 2:14:34 AM10/24/04
to
In article <08A6I28I3828...@anonymous.poster>,

EX-TRA LARGE <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote:
>On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>
> ... I have

>>elided the more outrageous bits that might injure innocent people.
>
>You elided them???
>
>Wouldn't it have been wiser if you'd simply omitted them?

That's what "elided" means. Look can look it up. I marked
my elisions with [deleted] so it would be clear where something
had been removed.

-- Dave Touretzky: "Elision with precision."
http://Stop-Narconon.org http:/ScientologyWatch.org

Michael Greenberg

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Oct 24, 2004, 11:25:26 AM10/24/04
to
d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote in message news:<417b484a$1...@news2.lightlink.com>...

Allright well..here we go. The gloves are off and the geniuses at
gearing up for noisy investigations.
Creepiest church on the planet.


Michael Greenberg

EX-TRA LARGE

unread,
Oct 24, 2004, 8:06:55 PM10/24/04
to
On 24 Oct 2004, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:

>In article <08A6I28I3828...@anonymous.poster>,
>EX-TRA LARGE <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote:
>>On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>>
>> ... I have
>>>elided the more outrageous bits that might injure innocent people.
>>
>>You elided them???
>>
>>Wouldn't it have been wiser if you'd simply omitted them?
>
>That's what "elided" means. Look can look it up. I marked
>my elisions with [deleted] so it would be clear where something
>had been removed.

It was a joke, Dave.

EX-TRA LARGE


Zorrosblade........Z

unread,
Oct 25, 2004, 8:26:02 AM10/25/04
to
On 25 Oct 2004 00:06:55 -0000, Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header
(EX-TRA LARGE) wrote:

SURRRRE IT WAS- peniS braiN.

barb

unread,
Oct 25, 2004, 9:06:07 AM10/25/04
to
Dave Touretzky wrote:

This is interesting. She has some horrible things to say about Ford and
his mental well-being, nasty enough to be RFW worthy material.
The "pranks" she mentioned refer to her accusations that Ford breaks
into her house and rearranges things. I can't imagine why she thinks
Dave or anyone else would find this of interest. If Ford had a clue
about the nasty things she says about him, he'd stay the hell away from
that chilly, mosquito infested "cottage!"
> <snip>

> Take care Dave. Lot's of other SCN stuff going on.....[deleted]
> setting up narky demolition is two states.....12 to 18 more months of
> serious daily effort is my educated guess until most of the SCN fangs
> are pulled. They are going down hard and vicious but at least in the
> SF Bay area they are bombing out badly with the politicos local,
> state, feds ....the Democratic party has had it with them.

What is this "narky" bullshit? She has some cutesy pet name for
Narconon? For some reason, this offends me more than anything else she's
done. It's just creepy as hell, like calling the Mafia the Cosy Nostra.
I wince every time I see it.


>
> [Last bit deleted because it refers to a private matter.]

No doubt stuff that is nobody's business, especially hers...


>
> ================
>
> If I receive any further emails from Ms. Lichtenwalner I will be
> sure to post them here.


--
--barb
Chaplain,ARSCC

"Imagine a church so dangerous, you must sign a release
form before you can receive its "spiritual assistance."
This assistance might involve holding you against your
will for an indefinite period, isolating you from
friends and family, and denying you access to
appropriate medical care. You will of course be billed
for this treatment - assuming you survive it. If not,
the release form absolves your caretakers of all
responsibility for your suffering and death.

Welcome to the Church of Scientology."

--Dr. Dave Touretzky
Peter Alexander

EX-TRA LARGE

unread,
Oct 25, 2004, 2:10:02 PM10/25/04
to
NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.
No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
--------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, Zorrosblade........Z <zorro...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>>It was a joke, Dave.
>>
>>EX-TRA LARGE
>>
>
>SURRRRE IT WAS- peniS braiN.

Look at the sig in the original message.

EX-TRA LARGE


FD

unread,
Oct 25, 2004, 2:35:13 PM10/25/04
to
Pamela Lichtenwalner has continued to stalk me by relentless emails,
snailmails, little cards and notes through my mailslot, and even flowers,
despite my written demand almost two years ago that she stay out of my life
and leave me alone. In the hope that she would tire of her game and leave me
alone, I have not responded in any way to her various efforts to engage me
and am disappointed that she has not lost interest in me. Apparently, she is
now seeking to up the ante with her fantasy I like to enter her house when
she's not there.

Although apparently bright, she is not right in the head (although she, like
Scientology, loves to throw around the concussion I received in a bicycling
accident as the reason why I do not want anything to do with her). Her MO is
to present herself as an intimate and use that presentation as an entre to
develop credibility where there should be none. This technique is not
unlike Moon's penchant for having himself photographed with politicans and
then publishing those photos to establish the appearance of a relationship
where in fact there is a void. Lichtenwalner was relentless in this regard
toward Margaret Singer in the months before Margaret died. It got so bad
she was banned from the hospital. This did not stop Lichtenwalner from
holding herself out to people who did not know better as a contact for
Margaret and the Singer Family as to whom Lichtenwalner pretended to be a
conduit for information and reports regarding Margaret's failing health.
Lichtenwalner originally duped Margaret by claiming that she was writing a
Master's Thesis in Linguistics on the relationship between thought reform
and language. That was how she came into my life - via Margaret's
recommendation, a recommendation that Margaret later told me she sorely
regreted having made.

Lichtentalner's latest fantasy that I would like to go into her house ought
to provide some charming grist for Scientology's FriendsofSanAnselmo.org any
day now. For the record, I wouldn't be caught dead anywhere near
Lichtenwalner or anything connected to her, especially her house. Ever.
Some months ago she had the fantasy that in the middle of the night I
changed all the tires on her car as a covert thank you message for all her
"support." That was another good one. With "friends" like Pamela
Lichtenwalner or Margery Wakefield, one would think I would not need
Scientology as an enemy.

Ford Greene

Redacted copy of my letter to Pamela Lichtenwalner follows:

Monday, January 06, 2003

BY EMAIL & U.S. MAIL

PAMELA LICHTENWALNER

P.O. Box 473

Stinson Beach, CA 94970

RE: Official Request To Leave Me Alone

Ms. Lichtenwaler:

I do not trust you. Each of your communications further confirms my
decision to completely disengage from you. People who know what boundaries
are made of also know that to offer advice when it is not asked for is
intrusive, and a boundary violation which manifests a lack of respect for
the recipient's autonomy and personal choices. My choices are none of your
business and the fact that you continue to push yourself into my life
despite the fact that I have repeatedly asked you, both nicely and rudely,
to stop shows that you are not aware of or sensitive to this. For this
reason alone, you are not an appropriate person to be in my life. My
friends know how to listen and respect my requests. My friends do not give
me unsolicited advice, at least not without asking me first if I want to
hear it, something which you have not done once. Such nuances of human
interaction escape you. Thus, I do not consider you to be or want you to be
my friend. Your advice is unwanted and of no value other than to further
alienate me and underscore my desire to not want any sort of engagement with
you.

Your statements that you "want to stay away" from me are not credible
because you insist on maintaining communication with me despite my express
and repeated requests that you stay 100% out of my life. This is at least
the seventh email you have sent to me after I asked you to leave me 100%
alone. You are harassing me.

[snip]

You talk and write too much and too often. Just because you said or wrote me
anything doesn't mean I paid attention to it because the volume, overall
unintelligibility and the time required to attempt to decipher your stream
of consciousness writings and verbalizations made me not want to. Thus, in
large part I have not understood or paid attention to the myriad details of
your communications to me about the various events and dramas in your past
and present life. Please, I don't want you to "teach" me anything; there is
nothing from you that is of interest to me or about which I want to "learn."
Moreover, I am not interested consulting with Nancy Marie, your psychic.

The only "dilemma" I am facing is that you will not leave me alone. Please
leave me alone. You have become a "hell relationship." Please pay attention
to and respect my repeated requests to be left alone. Your communications
have become increasingly obsessive, contradictory, intrusive and scary.
Please stop harassing me.

[snip]

Sincerely Yours:

HUB LAW OFFICES


By_______________________________

Ford
Greene, Esq.

:acg

Encl. (1)


FD

unread,
Oct 25, 2004, 2:53:43 PM10/25/04
to
Please note that FD is me. That is an outdated email address. It has been
so long since I posted anything to ars that I forgot that my identity was
listed as FD.

Ford Greene


"FD" <f...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:BHbfd.422145$mD.82122@attbi_s02...

ptsc

unread,
Oct 25, 2004, 3:06:22 PM10/25/04
to
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:35:13 GMT, "FD" <f...@comcast.net> wrote:

While I have no personal knowledge of the events described herein
by Ford Greene (except Pamela Lichtenwalner's habits of bizarre
accusations against various people including Ford Greene and myself),
I feel obligated to state that Ford's characterization of Pamela's behavior
is entirely consistent with my own personal experience.

Most striking is her refusal to cease harassing people after they
request she no longer contact them, and then her use and distortion
of private confidences in order to attack people who cut off contact
with her, her claims that she is "teaching" people various things
(despite her own lack of any knowledge in the subjects in question),
her disturbing attempts to meddle in the personal lives of people
she barely knows, and her grandiose imaginings of prestige and
social position. I have experienced all these things first-hand.

My experiences with Pamela Lichtenwalner lead me to
conclude that she is best avoided. Her gross
misrepresentations of events and facts are so persistent
and pervasive in any of her communications that she is
either a pathological liar or highly delusional. In either
event, anything she says can and should be disregarded
as of little or no factual value.

I find Ford's comments entirely credible, and even
eerily identical to my experience and that of everyone
else who I know who has had contact with this
strange individual.

She continues to make representations to this effect concerning Margaret
Singer to this date. Indeed, she made such representations to me
personally. Additionally, she portrayed herself as an intimate of Ford
Greene, although this post indicates you attempted to cut off contact
with her almost two years ago.

>Lichtentalner's latest fantasy that I would like to go into her house ought
>to provide some charming grist for Scientology's FriendsofSanAnselmo.org any
>day now. For the record, I wouldn't be caught dead anywhere near
>Lichtenwalner or anything connected to her, especially her house. Ever.
>Some months ago she had the fantasy that in the middle of the night I
>changed all the tires on her car as a covert thank you message for all her
>"support." That was another good one. With "friends" like Pamela
>Lichtenwalner or Margery Wakefield, one would think I would not need
>Scientology as an enemy.

I must concur. In years of contact with Scientology and Scientology-related
matters, including OSA harassment, I have never had contact with anyone as
relentless and disruptive as Pamela Lichtenwalner.

>Ford Greene

This description comports exactly with my own personal experience.

While I do not know personally of the events, they describe behavior which
is eerily similar to that I have observed myself, even though my contact with
Pamela Lichtenwalner has only been by email.

I am certain that others who have had more direct personal experience
can confirm that this is credible as well.

Ford Greene

unread,
Oct 25, 2004, 3:08:18 PM10/25/04
to
third time is the charm, I hope!


"FD" <f...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:XYbfd.5516$R05.2981@attbi_s53...

barb

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Oct 25, 2004, 3:57:12 PM10/25/04
to
FD wrote:
> Please note that FD is me. That is an outdated email address. It has been
> so long since I posted anything to ars that I forgot that my identity was
> listed as FD.
>
> Ford Greene

It took me about 2 seconds to figure that out, dear. :)

Zinj

unread,
Oct 25, 2004, 4:34:35 PM10/25/04
to
All things considered, I think it's probably counter-productive to
expand PL's environment to ARS by discussing her here.

God knows ARS has its own share of wackos, and as for 'warning' the
unwary; well, now it's done, and hopefully people are at least minimally
careful about their contacts with people in RL too.

Sure, there's a perfectly acceptable tradition of publishing threatening
e-mails to ARS, but for the most part that relates to threats from the
'Church' of Scientology, which is not only on-topic on ARS, but which
has deserved qualms about 'being exposed'.

General purpose wackos have no such compunctions, and publishing
anything related to them just fuels the insanity.

Zinj
--
You can lead a Clam to Reason, but you Can't Make him Think

Keith Henson

unread,
Oct 25, 2004, 11:52:43 PM10/25/04
to
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:06:22 -0400, ptsc <pt...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:35:13 GMT, "FD" <f...@comcast.net> wrote:

snip

Interesting, no, downright fascinating. Still . . . either she did
have some influence on Narconon getting kicked out of the California
schools, or the scns were taken in because she got a hate page over
this matter within about a month of Nanette's article in the
Chronicle.

Though as was pointed out to me, getting a rapid hate page largely
depends on them finding juicy stuff about you.

It looks like a wild card has been thrown into the game. It is hard
to say what happens next.

Keith Henson

barb

unread,
Oct 26, 2004, 9:08:48 AM10/26/04
to
ptsc wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:35:13 GMT, "FD" <f...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> While I have no personal knowledge of the events described herein
> by Ford Greene (except Pamela Lichtenwalner's habits of bizarre
> accusations against various people including Ford Greene and myself),
> I feel obligated to state that Ford's characterization of Pamela's behavior
> is entirely consistent with my own personal experience.

I can make the same statement. What stands out to me is her malicious
attempts to interfere with my life via phone calls and emails to people
I was working with on projects that had nothing to do with her.
Her accusations have a sameness about them; if you are not in Pamela's
camp, you are either bipolar, a drug addict, or an alcoholic.
Fortunately, none of her attacks bore fruit in my case.

Some of her attempts were rather humorous. Before she was banned from
the IRC channel #altreligionscientology, she learned that I was
scheduled to give a presentation to the Los Angeles chapter of the
American Humanist Society. Upon learning that she had called their main
office, spending over an hour ranting about my "drug and alcohol abuse,"
I emailed the organizer of the talk in Los Angeles to give him warning
that he could expect a call from her. Several days later, I received a
phone call from him, voicing his concerns that Scientology had learned
of the talk. I assured him that Pamela was not a Scientologist, just a
free-range loonytune whose behavior was certainly worthy of a dedicated
sect member.

He told me that his friend answered the phone, listened for a minute,
and passed it to him with the observation that "there's something wrong
with this woman." He was then treated to an hour-long lecture about me
and my evil ways. She told him I was a heroin addict and rabid
alcoholic, and then offered to give the talk in my stead. As an
indication of the depth of her knowlege of Scientology, she thinks
'Theta Art' is a Scientology course! Fortunately, he told her that I was
already scheduled to give the talk.

Earlier, before she was banned, she had expressed intent on driving down
from Stinson Beach to attend the presentation. She was fortunate to have
been banned from the channel, as I had a few things to say after the
phone call from the Humanist Society representative!

She also took it upon herself to phone the author of a book for whom I
was doing the illustrations, telling them that the reason the drawings
weren't completed was, well, the usual crap she spews. This interference
was not associated with Scientology at all, it was simply a malicious
attempt to fuck with my life and work. She knew I was working on the
book because I was doing some of the illustrations at her house.


>
> Most striking is her refusal to cease harassing people after they
> request she no longer contact them, and then her use and distortion
> of private confidences in order to attack people who cut off contact
> with her, her claims that she is "teaching" people various things
> (despite her own lack of any knowledge in the subjects in question),
> her disturbing attempts to meddle in the personal lives of people
> she barely knows, and her grandiose imaginings of prestige and
> social position. I have experienced all these things first-hand.

Indeed. There were some observations I made when I was up in Stinson
Beach. She refers to herself as 'we,' as if she had a phantom committee
following her around. Or a rodent in her pocket. I noticed that, when we
were walking around town, she would make a show of hailing passersby on
the street, as if to demonstrate the importance of her presence in
Stinson Beach. Curiously, I didn't see the locals being too enthusiastic
about stopping to chat with her. And nobody seemed inclined to attract
her attention first. On the other hand, when walking back through town
from the beach with my fishing pole, I was stopped by several locals who
wanted to chat.

She came down on me for playing with some kids outside a restaurant. In
Bolinas, it is apparently uncool to play with kids who are not yours.
She said it was 'inappropriate.' She also said that, if I behaved as I
was, "we won't let you play." Play what? Her game seems to be trying to
gather allies around her, and slandering the rest. I don't think I like
that game.

As a side note, she often chortles about how her "grandmotherly facade"
fools people. That may be true when one initially meets her. But it
didn't take us long to figure out that she is a major security risk.
She does indeed use information given in confidence to attack people who
don't agree with her.


>
> My experiences with Pamela Lichtenwalner lead me to
> conclude that she is best avoided. Her gross
> misrepresentations of events and facts are so persistent
> and pervasive in any of her communications that she is
> either a pathological liar or highly delusional. In either
> event, anything she says can and should be disregarded
> as of little or no factual value.

>
> I find Ford's comments entirely credible, and even
> eerily identical to my experience and that of everyone
> else who I know who has had contact with this
> strange individual.

I thought the drama of her involvement with the critic community was
fascinating as it unfolded. She was able to gain initial acceptance by
her continued references to Margaret Singer and Ford Greene, people we
all respect and admire. When she expressed concern over possible cult
retaliation from her work with Narconon, I didn't hesitate to go up to
Stinson Beach to keep an eye on things and advise her as to possible
security risks, of which there are many. However, she chose to ignore my
concerns, and I started to feel like I was some kind of monkeyboy there
to do her bidding and listen to her delusional rants about Ford Greene
and others.

I committed the sin of disobeying the Word of Pamela, by partying with
some local anglers she had warned me to stay away from. Let's just say I
consumed a LOT of beer that night! The next day, she dropped me off at
the Oakland train station, 24 hours before my train, without any concern
for my safety or well-being. Oakland is a raging pit of poverty, crack,
and dispair. Jack London Square is a small island of upscale development
surrounded by storefront churches, soup kitchens, and aging, low income
residential hotels. (bathrooms down the hall)

So there I was, with my duffle bag, fishing rod and laptop computer, any
of which some crackhead would be delighted to cut my throat for. She
neither knew nor cared if I had money for a hotel room. Fortunately I
did, and the Jack London Inn (bathrooms in every room!) was only a
couple blocks away from the train station.

When I got home, and back on IRC, her game started to unravel. I learned
that she'd attacked Ida, ptsc and Kady. I began receiving copies of
emails about me that she'd sent out to other critics. Did she think that
she was so important and popular that those people wouldn't contact me?

I found out she'd talked to my father the day she dropped me at the
train station, spewing the same crap as in the emails. Shortly after
that, she was banned from the IRC channel, which neatly removed her
access to future information that could be used against the people there.

Pamela Lichtenwalner is definately best left alone. She is a horrible,
malicious gossip who has no problem concocting falsehoods. Her
overweening sense of self importance is worthy of L. Ron Hubbard;
indeed, I think she sees herself as the critical movement's only hope,
relegating the rest of us to scurrying around doing her bidding while
she, the Trained Professional, commands us.

Fortunately, she is out of the loop and probably defanged. She'll have
no more confidences to betray, no more inside information she can use to
attack and discredit those who are actually accomplishing something. She
obviously lives in an alternative reality bubble, in which we are not
worthy of her presence. We are all incompetent, drug abusing, alcoholic,
mentally ill people in a downward spiral. She, on the other hand, is a
stable, highly qualified professional who was only trying to help us
become better people. One who relies on a psychic, btw. A freakin
psychic! The psychic must not be very good, or she would have warned
Pamela from the getgo that stirring up a shitstorm is not a very good idea.

Recently, she seems to be reduced to issuing chatty "reports" to people
who have asked her not to contact them, or who ignore her entirely.
Apparently, she is still under the delusion that she is captain of this
ship, issuing reports from the bridge to her underlings. I have no
problem with that, any more than I have a problem with Barbara Schwarz's
assertion that she grew up in a pineapple under the sea. Her vicious
attempts to discredit people involved in exposing Scientology, however,
are "not okay," as the clams are fond of saying. I think she is
dangerously mentally ill. She will be seeking new allies, so if you get
an email from her, your best course of action is to ignore it and hope
she goes away. Or, you can do what I did. I flamed her ass, and haven't
heard from her since.

This is true,
<snip>

Barbara Schwarz

unread,
Oct 26, 2004, 6:53:56 PM10/26/04
to
"Ford Greene" <fordg...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Cacfd.422356$mD.321095@attbi_s02>...

> third time is the charm, I hope!

I wonder why Ford Greene did not call the cops to arrest Garry Scarff.
Scarff infiltrated his law firm, right? What stopped that attorney to
turn Scarff over to the authorities? Couldn't be the laws. Scarff can
be put behind bars having violated so many laws.

How are your de-religionization (kidnapping and deprogramming)
activities these days, attorney Ford Greene?
http://www.friendsofsananselmo.org/

Shot any dog?

I wonder what happened to poor Joseph Miller. (Who was no dog but a
human being.) He is dead according
to that website.

Barbara Schwarz

Barbara Schwarz

unread,
Oct 26, 2004, 7:17:05 PM10/26/04
to
Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header (EX-TRA LARGE) wrote in message news:<08A6I28I3828...@anonymous.poster>...

What have I found here? Anti-religious extremists Dave Touretzky, Ford
Greene, Rob Clark, Barb Graham Warr, Keith Henson are trying to
disconnect from anti-religious Pamela Lichtenwalner?

If a Scientologist wants to disconnect from a suppressive person, the
anti-religious extremists claim that disconnection would be cruel and
unusual punishment for the person who is disconnected from.

You guys can't have it both. Either you shovel your hypocritical
attacks against disconnections when Scientologists do it, or you
should be bound together with Pamela Lichtenwalner on your backs till
eternity.

Would be just fair, right?

Barbara Schwarz

barb

unread,
Oct 26, 2004, 7:39:46 PM10/26/04
to

Actually, you and Pamela should be bound together on your backs till
eternity. You two could spend the time sharing your delusions, and it
might be entertaining for everyone else.

Rev. Desertphile de Rothschild

unread,
Oct 26, 2004, 8:37:40 PM10/26/04
to
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:39:46 -0700, barb <bwa...@cox.net> wrote:

>Barbara Schwarz wrote:
>> You guys can't have it both. Either you shovel your hypocritical
>> attacks against disconnections when Scientologists do it, or you
>> should be bound together with Pamela Lichtenwalner on your backs till
>> eternity.
>>
>> Would be just fair, right?
>>
>> Barbara Schwarz

>Actually, you and Pamela should be bound together on your backs till
>eternity. You two could spend the time sharing your delusions, and it
>might be entertaining for everyone else.

"I'm not crazy! YOU are!"

"No I'm not! YOU are!"

"No I'm not! You are!"

"I am not crazy! You are!"

Repeat until the universe itself dies of heath death.


---
RE-ELECT PRESIDENT GORE IN 2004
http://lastliberal.org
Voting Republican makes baby Jesus cry!

Dave Touretzky

unread,
Oct 26, 2004, 10:14:36 PM10/26/04
to
[ reposted under the correct thread ]

I can verify that Pamela Lichtenwalner is obsessed with Ford Greene.
In the year that I have known her, she has spent countless hours
talking about him. She would go on and on about his supposed secret
visits to her house (where she said he plays with the dog, moves her
stuff around, and makes occasional repairs), his "taking over" her
computer and remotely messing with her email, and various aspects of
his personal life I never wanted to hear about. She won't shut up
about him.

She also fancies herself a great friend and ally of Gerry Armstrong.
What puzzled me was that, for someone who claimed to be so close to
Gerry and Ford, she seemed completely out of the loop regarding the
most recent Armstrong trial. They didn't appear to be talking to her
at all; she had to find out stuff from reading ARS, like the rest of
us. Now I know why.

-- Dave Touretzky

Still_lying_about_Marty

unread,
Oct 27, 2004, 2:40:55 AM10/27/04
to
Stilllov...@myway.com (Barbara Schwarz) wrote in message news:<bf456302.04102...@posting.google.com>...

> "Ford Greene" <fordg...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Cacfd.422356$mD.321095@attbi_s02>...
> > third time is the charm, I hope!
>
> I wonder why Ford Greene did not call the cops to arrest Garry Scarff.
> Scarff infiltrated his law firm, right? What stopped that attorney to
> turn Scarff over to the authorities? Couldn't be the laws. Scarff can
> be put behind bars having violated so many laws.

He couldn't. Ford has a low tolerance for pain. I threatened to rip
his ear implant out. That shut him up good.


>
> How are your de-religionization (kidnapping and deprogramming)
> activities these days, attorney Ford Greene?

I'd like to shoot one...you!


>
> I wonder what happened to poor Joseph Miller. (Who was no dog but a
> human being.) He is dead according
> to that website.

He smelled you and died of aphyxiation?

K Palmer

unread,
Oct 27, 2004, 8:29:00 AM10/27/04
to

Barbara Schwarz wrote:

Yo Barbara it is very sad and indeed pathetic that you would think that
disconnection even applies in this situation. Disconnection as applied
by the cult of scientology is the separation of family members because
the cult is afraid of the truth and of people finding out the truth.
Disconnection as practiced by the cult of scientology and outlined by
the hatefilled bigot Hubbard is about control and power not about
protection or safety. The only one being protected by disconnection is
the cult of scientology. Disconnection is cruel, evil, underhanded and
destructive. Protecting oneself against deluded wierdos is not.

Delusional people have trouble with reality - they fixate on things that
are provably untrue and cannot tell the difference between the real
world and the one they imagine. This is not normal behaviour = it is in
fact dangerous behaviour because delusional people often live marginal
lives fighting an imaginary enemy - often in poverty or near poverty
conditions. This is incredibly sad because there is help available and
to deny oneself true health is to deny oneself real life.

Kim Palmer
( not Kady O'Malley, Bob MacKenzie, or anyone else you could possibly
confuse me with)

Barbara Schwarz

unread,
Oct 27, 2004, 11:53:12 AM10/27/04
to
d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote in message news:<417f048c$1...@news2.lightlink.com>...

All very very interesting, Dave Touretzky. :) But remember, you guys
can't disconnect from her, as you are no Scientologists. You are all
anti-disconnection when a Scientologist tries to get a suppressive
person off his or her neck, that means same rules have to be applied
to your lives too.

We humans are basically all related, that makes Pamela Lichtenwalner
sort of your and Ford Greene's sister. You can't show her the door and
disconnect. You have to endure her with all her faults as you attack
the disconnection policy of the Church of Scientology.

Don't you see the hypocrisy being against disconnection in case of a
Scientologist but being pro disconnection as far as your now unwanted
friend is concerned?

Barbara Schwarz

Barbara Schwarz

unread,
Oct 27, 2004, 11:56:25 AM10/27/04
to
Barbara...@myway.com (Still_lying_about_Marty) wrote in message news:<19b9f902.04102...@posting.google.com>...

> Stilllov...@myway.com (Barbara Schwarz) wrote in message news:<bf456302.04102...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > "Ford Greene" <fordg...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Cacfd.422356$mD.321095@attbi_s02>...
> > > third time is the charm, I hope!
> >
> > I wonder why Ford Greene did not call the cops to arrest Garry Scarff.
> > Scarff infiltrated his law firm, right? What stopped that attorney to
> > turn Scarff over to the authorities? Couldn't be the laws. Scarff can
> > be put behind bars having violated so many laws.
>
> He couldn't. Ford has a low tolerance for pain. I threatened to rip
> his ear implant out. That shut him up good.

He can't be a good lawyer if he was unable to put you behind bars.
Your have criminal from hell tatooed on your forehead, so to speak.
Even an average attorney should get you were you belong, in a women's
prison. (To avoid that you pass your Aids to the male gender that you
pefer.)

> >
> > How are your de-religionization (kidnapping and deprogramming)
> > activities these days, attorney Ford Greene?
>
> > http://www.friendsofsananselmo.org/
> >
> > Shot any dog?
>
> I'd like to shoot one...you!

Another death threat by Garry Scarff.

Barbara Schwarz

Criminal Garry Scarff wants to shoot me

unread,
Oct 27, 2004, 12:59:35 PM10/27/04
to
Barbara...@myway.com (Still_lying_about_Marty) wrote in message news:<19b9f902.04102...@posting.google.com>...

No posting with identity "Still_lying_about_Marty" is made by me,
Barbara Schwarz, but by lawless Garry Lynn Scarff, a forger, identity
stealer, hate crime committer, persecutor, cyber stalker, notorious
liar, harasser, and sexual harasser. He verbally assaults me, abuses
me and deliberately libels me and misinforms people about me. He
violates my privacy and my security by over and over posting my home
address on the net. He wants to get rapists and murderer to come to my
apartment. He steals my identity and posts offensive, libelous and
obscene postings under my name or with my name in his e-mail address.
Nothing what he posts about me is true. Note that I post from Utah, he
from California. He also cancels my posts by writing underneath that
they are forgeries. He posts like a bot and is on top of all of that
not funny but boring like an person in a coma.


GARRY SCARFF IN HIS OWN DANGEROUS:
"Actually, she (Barbara Schwarz) needs a baseball bat right in the
kisser.

Garry Scarff to Barbara Schwarz: I'd like to shoot one...you!

"Better yet, Bob, why don't you fetch an armload of really heavy books
and walk over to Barbara (Schwarz) when she's at a computer and
whoops....accidentially trip and drop the books on her head...hell..."
"You're very lucky there's 2000 miles between us, Beebe. You'd either
be dead or in ICU."
Garry Scarff: "Yup! I AM SATAN, HEAR ME ROAR!"
Garry Scarff: "...my college grades dropped and I was suspended for 6
months from college for receiving one credit out of the required 12
for the term."
Garry Scarff: "D.E. and others are correct if that I have not been a
Scientologist..."
Garry Scarff: "I was 'friend' with Scientology, yet going to cult
education forums with the Greeks and trashing Scientology."
Garry Scarff: "I...was even invited as special friend by Ann Greek to
accompany them to Canada for the purposes of kidnapping their
daughter...I accompanied the Greeks and another deprogrammer, Diane
Benscoter to Candada but the effort was unsuccessful."
Garry Scarff: "The sexual incident involving deprogrammer Bob
Brandybury did occur though Anne Greek begged me not to report it as a
crime."
Garry Scarff: "I rather lick you."
Garry Scarff:" Have a short life, Zanebutt".
Garry Scarff: "Don't make me send my henchman back over there to
bloody your nose."

------------------
GARRY SCARFF, THE THIEF OF FUNDS:
Garry Scarff stole stole 70% of donations of the Positive Action
Center. Something tells me that he did not do that out of hunger but
because he has a criminal mind.

GARRY SCARFF, AND THE MISUSE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT EQUIPMENT:
The affidavit of lawyer Graham Berry of April 4, 2004 indicates that
Garry Scarff unlawfully used law enforcement computer network to
retrieve info about juvenile. My question, is there any crime that
this Scarff has not committed sofar? He should be locked up.

GARRY SCARFF, THE PERJURER:
There are numerous information on the net that Garry Scarff lied in
his deposition in the Fishman/Geertz case.
Saying the truth under oath means nothing to criminal Scarff.

MORE GARRY SCARFF PERJURY:
Garry Scarff recants the content of his declarations given to Michael
Rinder, Elliott Abelson and David Long during the July 4, 1997
weekend. (A court accepting an affidavit of notorious liar Scarff is
losing all credibility.)

GARRY SCARFF, COMFORTABLE WITH LYING TO OTHERS FOR A LIVING:
C. Brennan wrote: "You forgot to mention that Garry Scarff is the guy
that used to be paid by the Cult Awareness Network to lie to potential
money sources for CAN and tell them his poor daddy died in Jonestown
(he said it used to bring tears to people's eyes,and green out of
people's pocketbooks, I guess he was convincing). Only problem was his
father was alive and well and living in Florida. CAN toured him all
over the country telling that story for quite a while, I guess they
got some good mileage out of it. It seems that Gary's comfortable with
lying to others for a living, don't know who is paying him now."

GARRY SCARFF, THE VIOLENT MAN
Violent Garry Scarff about an missed opportunity to have him arrested:
"My heated emotions to one female counterpicketer gave away and I
grabbed her by the throat and flung her to the ground in full view of
a Scientologist with a rolling videocamera."

MORE ABOUT GARRY SCARFF, THE DEATH THREAT MAKER:
His apology was simply part of the usual Scarff cycle. Still "valid"
is also his promise to kill me. -- T. H.

...but I see he (Garry Scarff) has progressed to making death threats
against me in a desperate plea for my attention. Something about
shooting me in the head? Someone e-mailed it to me; I missed the
posted thread. -- M.H.

And yeah, I know you (Garry Scarff) are dangerous...I know you can
easily mock up being really insane and take me out with your insanity
defense all nicely in place. -- G.A.

I would suggest to those who know Garry in LA that you should be
careful...So my advice to everyone: never never never never tell Garry
Scarff anything.... Remember, that is what drives his sick mind - he
wants to be known, looked at and to be listened to. -- T.H.

You are a liar, Garry. We have met. -- W.

Garry Scarff is a know liar. -- L .F.
I believe that Scarff did not just know about the sexual abuse of the
kidnap victim but that he participated in the abuse. -- Barbara
Schwarz

Scarff worked for both sides and cried, when he was caught. -- T.H.

GARRY SCARFF, AND INSANITY THAT RUNS IN HIS FAMILY?
Garry's brother allegedly killed himself with a gun.
I just believe that Garry has nothing to do with that if he has an
fool proof alibi that he was not near his brother at that time.

ROLL OVER FATHER JOHN GEOGHAN, HERE COMES GARRY SCARFF:
I learned that the Catholic Church did not take godless gay Garry
Scarff, who wanted to become a catholic "priest". Knowing Scarff, the
only reason why he would have wanted to join is because of the
homosexual activities of that church. That is likely the only reason
he became member in WEHO, his gay pick up "church" place in which they
drug and rape according to WEHO ex-members.
I thought the Catholic Church hires just about any perverted creep.
Scarff is apparently so perverted that even that church does not want
him. If they would have, who knows how many little boys rightfully
would sue father Scarff.

GARRY SCARFF, THE SPY:
Scarff:" I lied to F. and feigned an emotional outburst complete with
tears, screaming... The ploy worked as F. apologized to me... I
availed myself to his aonfidential (sic) legal records and legal files
of his clients..."
GARRY SCARFF, and his questionable diet: "Agreed that the Mormon when
(sic) look like they belong on a dairy farm, but some of the young
missionaries are yummy!"

MORE COMPLAINTS BY OTHERS ABOUT GARRY SCARFF:
Graham has his own ass to cover since Scarff gave him reams of other
false statements about alleged murder plots and so on...Berry will
have serious problems trying to make Scarff's former statements under
oath old up. -- H.C.

Garry Scarff deliberately lied about his background while he was an
active member of CAN. He claimed his father and other family members
were killed in Jonestown -- when he actually didn't know anyone in
Jonestown or have any involvement with the People's Temple. He served
as CAN's poster boy for awhile, all based on his fabricated
experiences with Jim Jones. After CAN was embarrassed by Scarff's lies
and turned against him, Scarff then proceeded to claim he had
infiltrated CAN as a GO/OSA operative. Outside of Scarff's own
assertions, I've seen no indication that this is any more true than
his lies about his
Jonestown connections. Scarff told the Moonies that CAN was making
death threats to try to keep him quiet. Scarff told the Moonies that,
as a member of CAN, he had been involved in activities that included
theft and burglary against them.
This is the guy whose "sworn affidavits" many people use to "prove"
that the CoS is a criminal organization. We're taking Scarff's
unsubstantiated word for things like the drowning of Judge
Swearinger's dog Duke, Moxon's order to have Cynthia Kisser and her
mythical daughter killed, etc. Is it really wise for anyone to place
so much trust in Scarff's unsubstantiated accusations?
Now, thanks to Scarff himself, we learn that he didn't end his career
as a prevaricator when he lost his contact with CAN and various cults.
He attempted to scam the Roman Catholic Church out of a settlement for
what he himself admits was a bogus claim that he was sexually
harrassed by a Catholic bishop. -- D. R.

It is well known that Garry Scarff can't be trusted...Garry is not
worthy of our trust. -- H.C.R.

Garry Scarff has been caught in lies and deceipt time and time again.
I only wish I could post half of the stuff which clearly shows the
misery that Scarff brought to lots of people. -- J.B.
Garry Scarff is a psychopath, and a loony is not an adequate word to
describe him. Scarff is a danger not only to himself, but to anyone
who trust him too... -- T.H.

For your information, when Garry (Scarff) was with CAN he was telling
everyone that his family had died in Jonestown and was making these
statements to the media. Come to find out, it was not true in the
slightest. If the alleged murder plots were true why didn't he go to
the police? -- H.C.

Perhaps you forget about the numerous little con-games he's been
caught playing here? I continue to spit in his (Scarff's) direction.
-- Z.T.

Garry Scarff is not a Scientology victim, he is a mentally ill guy...
-- T.H.

Is this guy (Garry Scarff) for real or does he just need to lay off
the hemp? Sounds like he's suffering from the Reality Inversion as
Robert Vaughn Young. -- T.J.

He (Scarff) has admitted to the things he has done and said, and he
has admitted being unstable. --J.B.

Have you ever seen Garry Scarff apologize for his deprogramming
activities here, or anything else for that matter? -- D. R.

Garry's mental problem is that he cannot accept people contradicting
him. -- T. H.

Scarff has already underminded any use he has in litigation for either
side because he lied so much. -- H.C.

And now you've become a forger as well. Go ahead Garry, and forge hate
messages. Go ahead, lie all you want. Go ahead and be cruel. Go ahead
and deny that your're doing what you're doing. -- G.A.

You (Garry Scarff) surface with your attacks and pornographic postings
and each time that you do I will release more info on you, who Lynn
Garrett really is, how Lynn Garrett makes his living, how Garry Scarff
became Lynn Garrett, vice versa. How Garry Scarff has accused at least
six individuals of homosexual attacks. -- J.B.

All I can say is that Scarff -- and the conflicting declarations he's
made in the past -- is what led me to become very skeptical of
anyone's claim of past abuse from cults, whether they've been sworn to
under penality or not. There may be some people willing to pick and
choose from Scarff's statement, selecting what they wish to beleive
and labelling as lies anything they don't wish to believe. I tend to
think that anyone so willing to change sides so often, for whatecver
reason, has list all hope of credibility. -- D. R.

I am a 100 percent convinced that no Scientologist told infiltrator
Garry Scarff to kill people, but that is all a product of this
criminal and mentally retarded mind. -- Barbara Schwarz


BTW, for those who don't know Garry Scarff, he is a pathological
liar...Garry lies continually about the "celebrities" he encounters.
He pretended to be a Jonestown survivor. -- G.A.

I have Scarff killfiled and so I don't see_his_posts, dear whatever.
-- Z.

And auto-attack drones like Garry Scarff, whose only learned skills
seem to
be anonymous posts, hiding behind spam merchants, and selling critics'
email
addresses to kiddy-porn sites. -- S.G.

Placing him (Scarff) in a killfile as probably 100 ars regulars have
done. Anyway, ars sure is a different place without him hanging
around. Must say I like it. :) *No one* makes as much noise as this
deseased creep... -- M.H.

FACTNet's archives include Garry Scarff's deposition revealing what he
claimed was a meeting with Moxon, Ingram, and others in which he swore
under penalty of perjury that all sorts of nefarious and illegal
schemes were plotted. FACTNet never reveals Garry Scarff's incredibly
checkered past history of flip-flopping between the battling cultists
and anticultists, or his ready admission that he's fabricated stories
from whole cloth (like his parents' death at Jonestown) in the past.
In Scarff's case, it wasn't just OSA who tried to warn readers about
Scarff's lack of credibility. -- D. R.


Scarff is active member of the gay WeHo "church", that according to
Scarff applaudes Scarff's lawless behavior against me. An ex-WeHo
member wrote me that this "church" sanctions and promotes dishonorable
behavior and that he and his friends were raped and drugged by one of
their active members, and that one of their active members murdered
others under the guise of "drug overdose". The ex-WeHo wrote that the
gay men make sexual innuendo during sermon and "church" leadership, as
their "Pastor" Terry Brewer, doesn't see what's wrong with that.
All that and more is documented on the Internet. You can go to the
Google newsgroups and check yourself. He posts with
dickto...@mindless.com (Dicktop_Stud); with Papa Boner; with
Barbara Schwarz is a notorious psychotic liar, an identity stealer, an
ugly cow, and a disgrace to the human race
(Boobara...@emailaccount.com); with with e-mail address
Barbara...@emailaccount.com and identities "Barbara_Schwarz";
"the real Barbara Schwarz de Rothschild"; "Truth Speaker 2"; and with
ID Still_lying_about_Marty. None of those posting is by me, the real
Barbara Schwarz, nor do I post under Babbling.Barbara.Schwarz and
e-mail address theonewhoisadelu...@emailaccount.com. I
posted first with ID "Guess who"? and e-mail account
theonewhoshallnotspeakout@emailaccount untill he stole again my
identity and posts now also with identity "Guess who" and with e-mail
account "theonewhoisadelusionalliar". He also stole the identity of
Mark Rathbun or Marty Rathbun (mrat...@scientology.org). Garry
Scarff's sexual harassment, insults, libel, persecution, harassment,
abuse, threats and cyber stalking of me, Barbara Schwarz, are under
different Google identities on the net. Scarff uses e-mail accounts
and posting identities with my name in it or a name similar as my name
to commit those crimes against me, but they can be all traced to him.
Interesting however is that he did not want to state his own address
to a court as he was afraid that he could himself come to harm. If he
fears criminality by not even tell the court where he lives, how come
he posts over and over my address on the net and lies that people
would get sexual services at my address and that there is a Hitler fan
club at my address? Scarff persecutes me from usenet thread to thread
often using my name as identity for his crimes (!) and verbally
assaults me, threatens me, harasses me, sexually harasses me, tries to
intimidate me, libels, insults and lies about me. He furthermore lied
that he spoke to a roommate of mine in the Utah mental health
hospital. I never was in that hospital, but he probably escaped from
one.

Scarff is the ultimate lawless and dangerous scum and police needs to
arrest him and lock him up.

Barbara Schwarz

Barbara Schwarz

unread,
Oct 27, 2004, 4:59:33 PM10/27/04
to
K Palmer <yduzit...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message news:<417f84c7$1...@news2.lightlink.com>...

Spare me your unqualified comments. You are completely clueless. You
think like a one cell bacteria but not like an intelligent human,
Kady.

> Disconnection as applied
> by the cult of scientology is the separation of family members because
> the cult is afraid of the truth and of people finding out the truth.

Crap! Don't tell me about SCN. I am a Scientologist, and you are not.
Suppressive people as you use their relationships to Scientologists to
force them to give up their religion.

> Disconnection as practiced by the cult of scientology and outlined by
> the hatefilled bigot Hubbard is about control and power not about
> protection or safety.

You are the bigot, and you are hatefilled, Kady O'Malley aka Kim
Palmer. I also bet that you are a secret member in the SEGNPMSS cult.

Disconnection is rarely applied. Actually when I was in the orgs, it
was not applied at all, and I had to suffer terribly because I could
not disconnect. I was later kidnapped in an attempt to deprogram
(de-religionize me) by the person from which I could not disconnect.
Every person has the right to disconnect, and so has a Scientologist,
you hateful twisted bigot.

> The only one being protected by disconnection is
> the cult of scientology.

No, actually not. Suppressive family members or friends become esp.
hostile when a Scientologist tells them to leave them alone and when
they disconnect. Protected is the person, the Scientologist who can
finally get some ppeace and does not always has to defend his way of
thinking and his religion. Ask your extreme friends Ford Greene and
Dave Touretzky how relieved they would feel when Lichtenwalner is out
of their lives. Scientologists are the same relieved when the
suppressive is no longer around them.


>Disconnection is cruel, evil, underhanded and
> destructive. Protecting oneself against deluded wierdos is not.

You are a deluded weirdo, Kady. If I would have you in my family or as
a friend, I would disconnect. You make religious people sick with your
ridiculous psychiatric indoctrination. I read often enough that people
posted that Scientologists would have disconnected from them as their
friends and they blamed the disconnection policy. The case with Pamela
Lichtenwalner is just the same. You guys want to get rid of her as a
friend, so has a Scientologist the right to disconnect from you
hateful folks.


>
> Delusional people have trouble with reality - they fixate on things that
> are provably untrue and cannot tell the difference between the real
> world and the one they imagine.

That is what I think by reading your postings.

> This is not normal behaviour = it is in
> fact dangerous behaviour because delusional people often live marginal
> lives fighting an imaginary enemy - often in poverty or near poverty
> conditions.

You guys are no imaginary enemies to the Scientologists. You ARS
cultists are real enemies to the Scientologists, you are kidnappers,
deprogrammers, bomb and explosive experts, felons, hackers, burglars,
convicted hate criminals, etc.

>This is incredibly sad because there is help available and
> to deny oneself true health is to deny oneself real life.

You live in the delusion that Scientologists need your pathetic
psychiatric help. You need help. Somebody has to help you to get your
IQ and ethics level up.


>
> Kim Palmer
> ( not Kady O'Malley, Bob MacKenzie, or anyone else you could possibly
> confuse me with)

Yeah, right. Kady O'Malley, keep on lying! That is what you always do.

Barbara Schwarz

ida j. camburn

unread,
Oct 27, 2004, 8:09:45 PM10/27/04
to
d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote in message news:<417f048c$1...@news2.lightlink.com>...

Perhaps another person needing professional help and the sooner the better
I asked her in response to her first e-mail to me to Please not tell me
personal items of her friends as I didn't want to read it. After a week
end here at my home she apparently couldn't wait to get home to diss one
of my guests. She is the only guest I have ever had who would bring a dog
without asking permission first. I will say the dog was extremely well
behaved and no problem. After the fiasco she pulled on my friend ,I asked
her to find another place to stay the next time she was in S.Calif.
For those of us who are sincere in the work we do and the accomplismnets
we share -none of us need such distractions.

Ida Camburn

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