From the Horse's Mouth - L. Ron Hubbard on Epilepsy
Chef Xenu
EXPANDED DIANETICS LECTURE No.2
A lecture given to the Flag Dianetic Auditing Team on 7 April 1972.
Part of the False Purpose Rundown Auditor Course
EXPANDED DIANETICS AND WORD CLEARING
"And then people who have epilepsy, which is a type of disease which
gives them seizures, are almost always found on some minor drug that
prevents them from getting these—they call them petit mal seizures.
Thats epilepsy. I dont care how they call it. Sometimes they really
seize and sometimes its just slight. One of those, if an epileptic
ever took you by the hand and so forth, hes liable to break every bone
in your hand, if he suddenly had a seizure. But the doctors keep them
on something to prevent this. Its just a tranquilizer and they keep
them on that one year, year in and year out."
"And then you come along as an auditor and you try to audit the pc and
you tell the pc that he'll have to go off that drug. And then all of a
sudden, why something will happen from someplace or another that the
pc will tell the doctor that they have been taken off the drug by the
auditor. And the doctor will call up plaintively asking you to please
put her back on the drug because she needs this. And you get into a
collision between medical treatment and so on."
"Now I've been using a lot of medical words here or chemical words
really. Just dont pay any attention to them because they're mostly
gobbledygook, and theres an awful lot of gobbledygook words.
Gobbledygook just means nonsense chatter, you see. There's an awful
lot of them."
-----
From P.A.B. No. 21
PROFESSIONAL AUDITOR’S BULLETIN
From L. RON HUBBARD
Via Hubbard Communications Office
"There was a rather interesting piece of confirmatory data regarding
the advisability of running “electronics” completely out when
contacted by “Certainty” processing. A fellow auditor was called in on
an epileptic case, and during running contacted the “halver” with
electronic convulsions. After a long session where the preclear came
up tone scale and could exteriorize, use beams on fingers pulling them
up etc., went back to her home in a very excellent condition. The same
night took part in a home social evening, during which a friend of the
family tried to force unwelcome attention on her, with the result that
during the night she had three very violent fits. The point here I
wish to make is that once the charge of electronic force is “started”
and not thoroughly run out through lack of time and opportunity, there
will be the risk of attracting the opposite poles of force and thereby
leave the preclear “open” to undesirable experiences at the sexual
level."
"The electronic implant most definitely was meant to degrade the
thetan and GE, e.g. people’s change of physical appearance during
epilepsy."
---
From Dianetics Today by L. Ron Hubbard
April 1975 (Second Printing)
page 269.
"Only a short time ago was it discovered that the preclear's problem
was that he had epilepsy which he was controlling with drugs and of
which he was too ashamed to tell the auditor. Pretty wow! So you be
sure to watch this with your preclears."
---
From Taped LRH Lecture 7 November 1959
The Route Through Step Six
"The belief that something has been created is enough for some people
to insist that it must be destroyed so that you get — a whole society
of some kind or another will do an incredible thing. They’ve been
formed to help epileptic children, let’s say. You come along and you
say, “Well, all right, we’re going to help epileptic children. We
could do something for epilepsy.” They immediately say, “Shoot him!”
And then the next thing you know they say, “Anybody who says he can do
anything for epileptic children is a quack. This society was formed to
help epileptic children. There is no cure for epilepsy.”"
"This goes into an additional stage. The Society for the Prevention of
Epilepsy and the Help of Epileptic Children becomes the Society for
the Punishment and Vivisection of Epileptic Children. They destroy,
then."
"So, your mental health societies, they — they just think of doing
something for mental health or about mental health, in other words,
creating a better situation, and they instantly start killing people
who need mental help. Just automatic reaction."
"Say — they think, “Well, I think I will help all these poor
insane...”"
"“Kill them!” See? It just goes just like that."
---
Bibliography
Lafayette Ronald Hubbard. Taped lecture C7204C07 SO: Expanded
Dianetics Lecture No.2 Expanded Dianetics and Word Clearing. 1972.
Lafayette Ronald Hubbard. Professional Auditor's Bulletin Number 21.
1954.
Lafayette Ronald Hubbard. Dianetics Today. Kingsport Press. USA. 1975.
Lafayette Ronald Hubbard. Taped Lecture of 7 November 1959. The Route
Through Step Six. 1959.
Out_Of_The_Dark
There's nothing more effective in pointing out the dangers of
Dianetics and Scientology than the 'tech' itself. By the time a
student gets to these materials, he's indoctrinated to the point of
believing anything Hubbard says, without question because we know what
happenes when we question source, right? These quotes demonstrate
Hubbard easily manipulating the Scientologist listener into believing
his quack beliefs about Epilepsy. This information needs to get to the
media, for sure.
Thank you so much for researching this.
Mary
AnthroAnne
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dear Chef Xenu,
I sure wish I could actually see the "original" that you are typing
from because reading this text is like reading a bad movie script
written by a half-educated kook. My God people actually believe this
drivel? To actually think that this group merited academic study ( I
was comtemplating it - as I am an anthropologist) is innane. It sure
would be fun to read his entire treastie.
Eldon
I second that, Chief Xenu. It's hard to believe what a shithead
Hubbard was, which is probably how he got away with so much.
>
> Mary
Tigger
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL....Hubbard talks "about" medical gobblygook and then he talks
gobblygook and rambles incoherrentlly.
Tigger
banchukita
>
> - Show quoted text -
What Chef posted was from a taped lecture. Try Hubbard's books such
as "Dianetics" or "History of Man" if you want a taste.
While Dianetics is "book one" in Scientology, a Scientologist would
explain to you that you shouldn't read HoM until you've endured a
bunch of other Hubbardica that is supposed to be done in a specific
order; that it will affect your 'case' to read 'out-gradient' and
you'll get all 'spinny,'
Where did you study Anthropology?
-maggie, human being
Out_Of_The_Dark
AnthroAnne
>
> - Show quoted text -
HI Maggie,
I study medical anthropology at The Catholic University of America in
Washington DC. Hopefully, I will finish my dissertation and present it
for oral examination sometime in April! Finally! ( I received my
Master's in 1997 in cultural anthropology with a speciality of medical
anthropology at Catholic as well).
I know the next question you are going to ask - "What is medical
anthropology? Do you study bones?" Well, I do not study bones that's
forensic anthropology. I study health and illness in different
cultures; I am a cultural anthropologist. My specialty is the U.S. and
currently studying women's health and self-care ( the ways in which
women maintain their health and prevent illness).
I was intrigued about "scientology" and it's ideas regarding health
and illness and naively believed that I could just walk into a
"scientology" store front or their "library" and read their material
regarding health and illness. But it seems from the internet research
that I have come across that this is not the case. I wonder if anyone
has all their "manuals", perhaps someone no longer with the
organization so that they can be studied?
Anyway that's what brought me here. I did attempt to read "Dianetics"
once, but I found it pendantic and rambling, but couched in many
Western ideas regarding the body and neuroscience at that time since
it was the 50's. (This was the 'hey- day" of neuro-science and new
knowledge regarding neurotranmitters and pharmacology for the cure of
mental illness - the famed de-institutionalization of mentally ill
persons through the use of drugs.) I thought it was intriguing that
he utilized some ideas like the engram - which were just being
explored at the time - albeit as neural synapsis routines aka neural
engrams and ironically from neuropsychologists and used them to
formulate a "popuralized" theory of thought. ( I use popularized in
it's academic sense - that is an idea generated from an authoritative,
professionalized science and re-interpeted with ideas outside it's
original context in the popular social context (popular culture).
Sorry I seem to be waxing academic here... anyway I work with Arthur
Klienman's (medical anthropologist from Harvard) theory regarding
health and illness being structured from three socio-cultural areas -
professional, folk and popular. Since us anthropologists are running
out of "exotic far-away peoples" to study - I thought hmm.. maybe
seeing what a popularized group like "scientology" and it's belief
system might or might not fit into this theory.
So, that's it in a nutshell. It still might be an interesting idea
though. ANyway I love to talk anthropology so if you have any other
questions feel free to ask.
Best,
Anne
banchukita
Way back in the mid 90s I was taking a grad-level class in statistics
for social science majors.
I thought about how Scientology claimed to be 'improving lives' and so
I thought it would be interesting to do a social impact assessment of
the impact of Scientology upon the community of Clearwater.
I did a lot of research on the history of Scientology's arrival in
Clearwater, and how it was perceived by Scientologists and non-
Scientologists
I noticed that statistics supplied by Scientology about itself were
not reflected in statistics from more neutral sources. I started
asking some difficult questions on this forum. Scientology's response
to this was to write the Dean of Academic Computing and complain and
demand to have my computer account pulled. The class ended and I
never did finish the project because I couldn't rely on the
information and there certainly wasn't as much independently gathered
information about Scientology available then as there is now.
I was threatened in an almost happy tone that a private investigator
would dig into my 'crimes.' Because in Scientology's worldview, if you
investigate it without being a participant, if your findings aren't
what they want to hear then you must be guilty of other crimes and
it's simply a matter of exposing them to discredit you.
Another interesting anthropological tack is the effort to which
Scientology will go to stifle discussion about itself. Google the
Elaine Seigel memo that was leaked to this very newsgroup in 1994 or
5.
As an anthro, look past the cloak of religiosity. It's about the only
thing propping up the illusion that Scientology does more good than
harm.
-maggie, human being
> Best,
> Anne
Gerry Armstrong
Yes. Many people have extensive Scientology libraries. Nobody, even
the cult, has *all* the cult's scripture's, which I'm assuming you
mean by "manuals." I believe that anyone with a good mind can find
enough online authenticatable material to go to great depth in your
field, and in a number of related fields.
Me:
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/
My wife Caroline Letkeman:
http://www.carolineletkeman.org/sp/
and a site dedicated to exposing and opposing Scientology's
"Suppressive Person" doctrine (which is truly fair game for cultural
anthropologists to study):
http://www.suppressiveperson.org/spdl/
>
>Anyway that's what brought me here. I did attempt to read "Dianetics"
>once, but I found it pendantic and rambling, but couched in many
>Western ideas regarding the body and neuroscience at that time since
>it was the 50's. (This was the 'hey- day" of neuro-science and new
>knowledge regarding neurotranmitters and pharmacology for the cure of
>mental illness - the famed de-institutionalization of mentally ill
>persons through the use of drugs.) I thought it was intriguing that
>he utilized some ideas like the engram - which were just being
>explored at the time - albeit as neural synapsis routines aka neural
>engrams and ironically from neuropsychologists and used them to
>formulate a "popuralized" theory of thought. ( I use popularized in
>it's academic sense - that is an idea generated from an authoritative,
>professionalized science and re-interpeted with ideas outside it's
>original context in the popular social context (popular culture).
>Sorry I seem to be waxing academic here... anyway I work with Arthur
>Klienman's (medical anthropologist from Harvard) theory regarding
>health and illness being structured from three socio-cultural areas -
>professional, folk and popular. Since us anthropologists are running
>out of "exotic far-away peoples" to study - I thought hmm.. maybe
>seeing what a popularized group like "scientology" and it's belief
>system might or might not fit into this theory.
Do nazism, communism, criminalism, sociopathicism fit into that
theory?
>
>So, that's it in a nutshell. It still might be an interesting idea
>though. ANyway I love to talk anthropology so if you have any other
>questions feel free to ask.
Welcome to a.r.s.
>
>Best,
>Anne
© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
Maureen
>
> read more »
If you studied Margaret Mead, you might know who Gregory Bateson was.
He was her third husband.
This was buried on Wikipedia, but important to understand the link to
$cientology:
(from a past post:
----
> There are some interesting reads on this topic to compare what $cientology teaches:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind
> Double Bind is a communicative situation where a person receives different or
> contradictory messages. The term, coined by the anthropologist Gregory Bateson, attempts
> to account for the onset of schizophrenia without simply assuming an organic brain
> dysfunction.
> The phenomenon itself was functionally observed in its negative sense, and utilised in a
> therapeutic context, by Milton H. Erickson. The Double bind is based on paradox turned
> to contradiction.
> Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind#Persuasion_technique
> Milton Erickson is the person of course, who developed the "Confusion Technique" which
> in my opinion is what happens through continued $cientology courses by use of uninformed
> hypnosis and other tactics in $cientology. Confused, mixed messages are a few in the
> whole of coercive persuasion, that can cause debilitating, long term effects.
What these anthropologists studied furthered ways that served another
purpose. Hypnosis was found to cross this bridge. Eg., Scientology
also uses techniques from the Kubark Counterintelligence Training
Manual:
> http://www.lermanet.com/exit/confusion-technique.htm
Search for $cientology's "training routines" to see how the double
bind is starts the training process.
The words don't mean anything in Dianetics. Hubbard was a liar and
made up alot of words to place people in a trance.
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hypnosis-index.htm
Then read "Soul Hackers" by Caroline:
http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915&Itemid=93
That's a first hand story of what it feels like by an ex-member.
Maureen
AnthroAnne
> On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:37:34 -0800 (PST), AnthroAnne
>
Hi Gerry,
Thanks so much for your responses and welcome to the group. Thanks
for posting your website and your wife's. I haven't looked at them
yet, though plan to this evening ( I think it's early am tho.) I have
a web site also, but it's more personal, but some professional stuff
on it too. Not much anymore because I haven't updated it. Although,
considering Maggie's post and her experience - I'm a bit leary. Though
you do have enough information to google me, feel free to do so if you
like. After my orals I'll be happy to officially post it!
Thank you for providing me with the links regarding "Scientology"
texts. I only used the word manual since if people have to "train" to
read them - I figured they were manuals of doctrine.
In regards to finding authenticable materials that would be nice.
Though I am a bit uncomforable with utilizing material posted on the
internet without seeing the hardcopy for myself. As people could post
anything and say they copied it from the text. In fact, I'm having the
same problem finding the original source from a supposed quote by WHO
(World Health Organization) that's now circulating and neccessary for
my dissertation - but that is another story! I'm sure you must be
referring to information on your website that I will find shortly.
In regards to whether Kleinman's theory is applicable to the study of
"nazism, communism, criminalism, sociopathicism". I'm sorry, no it
does not. He is speaking strickly about the constuction and structural
organization of health and illness medical systems. Although, recently
(last 10+ years) he has been working on social sufferring and illness
that is expressed as illness through experiences of large scale
violence and injustice such as war, famine and epidemics.
I understand that many people have strong feelings regarding
"Scientology" teaching, practices and mores. If I would undertake a
study of "Scientology" in would be in the construction and
understanding of health and illness beliefs and practices as related
in texts. I would of course be bound by our professional system ethics
(American Anthropological Association) but also are relativistic
perspective.
The relativism perspective means that I attempt to understand their
world view as they see it. For example, some peoples believe in the
concept of "Evil Eye" such that saying an admiring compliment
regarding a newborn baby could bring sickness or the "Evil Eye". So,
if I was in that culture I would refrain from saying "What a beautiful
baby you have!" eventhough in my culture (the US) that would be the
expected thing to say first meeting someone's baby. I usually attempt
not to have my study subjects running away from me in fear! (My
attempt to insert humor into this monologue here). My role as an
anthropologist is to take note of it, find out why they beleive that,
and understand the cultural constructions and meaning for that
particular belief. The next step would be to take those cultural
understandings and apply them to the theoretical understandings of the
field of anthropology.
If I were to undertake a study of health and illness from texts - that
is not doing participant observation, but analysis of constructions
explained in text, I would apply the same principles. I thought I
should just make that clear generally, as the discipline of
anthropology as it is now is not aimed as a specific purpose for
"debunking" or "exposure". However, there are anthropologists who are
activists. I don't see that as my role in analyzing texts regarding
health and illness at this point.
All the best,
Anne
AnthroAnne
>
> That's a first hand story of what it feels like by an ex-member.
>
> Maureen
Hi Maureen,
Thank you very much for your post and your additional links to
information.
I am familiar with Gregory Bateson in name only. His work is not in my
area and I am not familiar with all his writtings. I will have to look
up the reference to re-fresh my mind in regards to these concepts you
are talking about. I'll write more after I see them.
Thanks again!
Best,
Anne
AnthroAnne
Hi Maggie,
Thanks again for your posts. Gee, so sorry to hear that your
Department received a letter from "Scientology" regarding your
research - that is disheartening. And sorry that you didn't finish
your project.
I am interested to know what your thoughts were regarding the impact
of 'Scientology' within Clearwater? From your research was there any
particular reason why this group choose Clearwater as it's
headquarters?
It seems that your interest has expanded since then.
Hm, that is very intriguing most organizations like people to talk
about them as it increases publicity and public awareness of the
group.
On the idea of whether "Scientology" is a religion or not, well I will
leave that up to you guys and the comparative religion academics.
Though, thinking about it I know that there have been anthropological
studies on the Cargo Cult and other religions that are percieved by
others to be a cult like Vodooism. There's usually a lot of academic
writting after a cult tragedy like Waco and oh gee, what was the name
of the group that thought the Aliens were coming and they all killed
themseleves? I think it was in California. Anyway, I do know of a
couple of anthropologists interested in "altered states of
consciousness" that are often used in rites to achieve some spiritual
enlightenment. There are also anthropologists studying "New Agers".
I'm not sure where Scientology fits into the mix as I'm just exploring
the potential to study and have to finish my dissertation before I
move on to another project.
With that in mind, I should really get back to it. I look forward to
our continued discussions.
Best,
Anne
Out_Of_The_Dark
BUMP back to the table for discussion. This is really good research.
banchukita
My Department didn't receive a letter - the Dean of Academic Computing
did. Because I was a student but also a full time staff member, they
tried to have me fired from my job for using my student account (which
at the time was the same as my work account) to post to a.r.s.
Scientology doesn't really allow for participant observation, and it
was the threatening part that led me to interview Gabe Cazares, who
was mayor of Clearwater when Scientology moved in. Other interviews,
more threats, and things I saw with my own eyes downtown Clearwater,
in Washington, DC and other places have demonstrated to me that
Scientology, Inc. is not what it claims to be.
Cargo Cult is Cultural Anthro 101 - see Marvin Harris's book "Cows
Pigs Wars and Witches." Is that what you're referring to? It's simply
an interesting study in the application of anthropological
perspective, but not really about cults.
You say you're into medical anthro - applied? Who's on your
committee? (MedAnth is a small world, and I worked in one of the
first depts. that offered advanced degrees in it). What's your
dissertation about and how is it you have time to peruse this forum if
you're working on it? :D
AnthroAnne
Yes, I am in applied research. Although, I'm not sure where I'm going
to go with it at this point. I've had a career in public health 10+
years in STDs (sexually transmitted diseases) and have since moved on
in terms of my interests. I've also been looking for a job, but I
really want to do research and not manage paper. But who knows.
My field work is completed, but you know always in the field anyway
since I elected to study my home town. I am studying self-care- the
ways in the which a select group of women in a religious based
voluntary organization take care of themseleves to prevent illness and
maintain their health.
I only have three people on my committee one my prof. a well known
medical anthropologist, past president of the Medical Anthropology
Association, another from my department who's not a medical
anthropologist - he's environmental/development and medical
anthropologist from USAID. Now you have me all scared, I don't want to
put their names on the board!
I met tommorrow with my proff to get my entire draft back. So, I will
probably be writting in the next weeks and not so much goofing off.
I'm working on my final chapter and need to get all her comments back
and hopefully not too many runs back to the library so I can finish it
to disburse to my committee. I'm sure you know all about that!
Yeah, so I've been doing a lot of lit searches and new data searches
to see what's available since I wrote my draft.. and my mind wanders!
And of course, my dog decided to scrape up his hind leg, so had to
take him to the vet and he had surgery yesterday.. so, you know
goofing off till I get with my Prof. tommorrow.
I'm surprised that they didn't give you two e-mails. When I worked at
the University in my many incantantions trying to support myself - I
had a work e-mail and student - but of course I don't know when you
attended so.. you may have attended much earlier than myself. I guess
you would have if you were at the first University that offerred it -
which I dont' happen to know.. :) although I can tell you lots about
std's! lol
Best,
Anne
AnthroAnne
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Opps forgot to reply to the Pigs book, yep it's definately anthro 101.
But there are still serious scholars working on it and altered states
consciousness common to many religions. In fact one of my fellow
studentslog since graudated spent many years in Papua New Guinea ..
anyway I'm rambling here. goign to close. lol
牛魔王
Tom Cruise's misinformation.
Black Mamba
news:0c4b06c0-b382-44fb...@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
This needs to be forwarded to all the media outlets as a counter to
Tom Cruise's misinformation.
On Jan 5, 1:29 am, Chef Xenu <ChefX...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From Taped lecture C7204C07 SO
> EXPANDED DIANETICS LECTURE No.2
> A lecture given to the Flag Dianetic Auditing Team on 7 April 1972.
> Part of the False Purpose Rundown Auditor Course
> EXPANDED DIANETICS AND WORD CLEARING
>
> "And then people who have epilepsy, which is a type of disease which
> gives them seizures, are almost always found on some minor drug that
> prevents them from getting these-they call them petit mal seizures.
> to insist that it must be destroyed so that you get - a whole society
> of some kind or another will do an incredible thing. They've been
> formed to help epileptic children, let's say. You come along and you
> say, "Well, all right, we're going to help epileptic children. We
> could do something for epilepsy." They immediately say, "Shoot him!"
> And then the next thing you know they say, "Anybody who says he can do
> anything for epileptic children is a quack. This society was formed to
> help epileptic children. There is no cure for epilepsy.""
>
> "This goes into an additional stage. The Society for the Prevention of
> Epilepsy and the Help of Epileptic Children becomes the Society for
> the Punishment and Vivisection of Epileptic Children. They destroy,
> then."
>
> "So, your mental health societies, they - they just think of doing
> something for mental health or about mental health, in other words,
> creating a better situation, and they instantly start killing people
> who need mental help. Just automatic reaction."
>
> "Say - they think, "Well, I think I will help all these poor
> insane...""
>
> ""Kill them!" See? It just goes just like that."
>
> ---
>
> Bibliography
>
> Lafayette Ronald Hubbard. Taped lecture C7204C07 SO: Expanded
> Dianetics Lecture No.2 Expanded Dianetics and Word Clearing. 1972.
>
> Lafayette Ronald Hubbard. Professional Auditor's Bulletin Number 21.
> 1954.
>
> Lafayette Ronald Hubbard. Dianetics Today. Kingsport Press. USA. 1975.
>
> Lafayette Ronald Hubbard. Taped Lecture of 7 November 1959. The Route
> Through Step Six. 1959.
Thanks for posting these L. Ron Hubbard auditor training lessons.
It never ceases to amaze me that Scientologists read this stuff
and then *cognite* and laugh about how advanced they have become
since knowing this new tech on Epilepsy.
I can't imagine what to say. They are like robot dolls.
Larry
{LaserClam Is Like A Pit Viper!}