Monica Pignotti: Y KANT JEAN B LISENSED?

f squared

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Jul 11, 2009, 8:03:48 AM7/11/09

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Saifee Durbar has a vision for Africa.

He plans to build a railway linking Africa’s west coast (Cameroon)
with the east coast (Sudan).

The railroad will go through the Central African Republic. The
minerals there will be used to build part of the railroad-the
beginning of the long road to self sufficiency!

Saif Durbar has worked it all out, and intends to do it in such a way
as to improve the situation in Darfur as much as possible.

For more information…

http://saifdurbar.wordpress.com/

http://saifeedurbar.wordpress.com/

Monica Pignotti

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Jul 11, 2009, 8:17:10 AM7/11/09

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Thanks for showing us how far off the deep end you've gone.
Your spam with my name on it does nothing to refute the facts on
the following webpages where AT proponents were quoted in their own
words, with fair use, properly cited quotations:

http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/federici.html
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/randolph.html
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/feinberg.html
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/keck.html
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/thomas.html

Here's another one from the page on Federici:
"Total Adults Only. Isolation from any type of activity, friend or
other sibling. Early bedtime, no talking to others, no television,
play or any type of recreational activity. No hiding out in their room
which is often preferred. Must stay in immediate sight and close
proximity of parents or responsible adult at all times. Hard labor
activities occupying any and all free time. Awakening early to begin
work. Writing assignments or boring, repetitive tasks. Absolutely no
stimulation. If parents must leave to go places, child must accompany
them but not engage in any discussion or distraction. Again, Total
Adults supervision, isolation and continual hard work is [sic] of
paramount importance …"
Ronald Federici — Help for the Hopeless Child (2003), p. 199

and then there's Liz Randolph, author of the RADQ, a bogus assessment
tool that has no published evidence to support its reliability and
validity that Becker-Weidman used in his study (just one of numerous
flaws Jean Mercer and I critiqued). Here are some of Randolph's words:
"Attachment therapy sessions usually last 2-3 hours … the therapist
may speak loudly to children or yell at children to encourage the
expression of those feelings. The therapist may simultaneously nurture
children by stroking their hair or face … may occasionally kiss
children … also tickle children … as a way of gaining access to and
deepening feelings …"
Elizabeth Randolph — Children Who Shock and Surprise (1999), p. 37

"If the child begins to struggle physically (which some children do
when they discover that the therapist is in control), the therapist
will hold onto the child’s outside hand or arm (the child’s inside arm
is tucked behind the therapist’s back), and may ask someone else to
hold onto the child’s legs so the child can’t kick the therapist."
Elizabeth Randolph — Children Who Shock and Surprise (1999), p. 38

Again, did she or did she not write these things and did Arthur
Becker-
Weidman use her RADQ in his study or did he not? Hint: He did. Does
the RADQ have any evidence published in reputable peer reviewed
journals to support its reliability and validity? No it does not. It
has no more evidence than the OCA.

There's lot's more from Liz at http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/randolph.html

The question is, did they or did they not write these things? If they
did, then it doesn't matter what Larry Sarner's past is, although thus
far the only documentation you have provided is a 12 year old civil
case. Even if you were to come up with evidence that Sarner was a
convicted murderer doing time in prison, which of course is not true
but even if it were, it would not change the facts that are reported
above one iota. Did Federici, Randolph, Feinberg, Keck, Thomas, and
others write what they wrote or didn't they? That is the issue you
evade with your lame invocation of logical fallacy.

Monica

Eldon

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Jul 11, 2009, 11:58:03 AM7/11/09

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And WTF does this have to do with Jean Mercer getting a license to
practice clinical psychology? Or did I mess something along the way?

Monica Pignotti

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Jul 11, 2009, 1:27:31 PM7/11/09

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Yes, you certainly did "mess something along the way" -- a great deal.
WTF does whether Jean Mercer is a clinical psychologist have to do
with the above URLs or the babbling you post here. It doesn't take a
psychologist to see the damage being done by the therapies she has
exposed and criticized. Jean has her PhD in developmental psychology
(a discipline that does not have licensure) and has far more knowledge
in this area than most clinical psychologists do. One doesn't have to
be a practicing psychologist to see the obvious harm being done by the
methods recommended in the links I gave so your obsession with Mercer
is nothing more than ad hominem that evades the real issue, which is
child torture in the name of the "therapy" you defend.

http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/federici.html
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/randolph.html
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/feinberg.html
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/keck.html
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/thomas.html

But if you want to obsess about the license issue, Liz Randolph lost
her license to practice psychology back in 1996 and Nancy Thomas never
had one to begin with and neither of them have anything even close to
Jean Mercer's credentials. Feinberg has also repeatedly been in
trouble with his state board.

Monica Pignotti

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Jul 11, 2009, 1:28:18 PM7/11/09

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On Jul 11, 11:58 am, Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:

Sorry, I meant t respond to "F-squared", not you, Eldon. I responded
to the wrong posting -- sorry.

John Dorsay

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Jul 11, 2009, 1:28:12 PM7/11/09

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Jean Mercer doesn't practice clinical psychology. Yet the
cyberstalking kook expects people to believe that her lack of an
irrelevant license somehow invalidates her criticism of the abusive
pseudoscientific "therapies" promoted and/or practiced by people
such as Ronald S. Federici, Elizabeth M. Randolph, Neil I. Feinberg,
Gregory C. Keck, and Nancy L. Thomas and described on web pages such
as these:

http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/federici.html
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/randolph.html
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/feinberg.html
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/keck.html
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/thomas.html

There's no accounting for kooks.

BTW, if you actually did spend any time investigating the kook's
posting history (not sure if you really were doing so or if you were
just having fun twisting the kook's tail), you will have noticed
that the kook might be either a certain international adoption
consultant <cough>Ronald S. Federici</cough> or one of his close
collaborators/supporters.

The first link in my sig certainly points in that direction, but
there is other, more amusing, evidence as well.

Like several long-timers here, I have things set up so I can
datamine the news feed for ars quite painlessly. In particular, I
can - and sometimes do - correlate ip addresses, net blocks, and
other header information such as google account hashes from the last
few years' worth of posts.

When I crunched the cyberstalking kook's google account hashes,
there were a couple of noteworthy bits of data that emerged.

Some might find it interesting that most of the cyberstalking kook's
posts came through the same tor and other proxies that are also
used by a particular prolific contributor to ars. The specific
proxies' appearances on ars are almost exclusively limited to the
cyberstalking kook and BS. Otherwise, there are fewer than a dozen
posts through any of the kook's ip addresses. (note to Barbara if
you happen to read this post: I know you have nothing to do with
the cyberstalking kook and I understand that you do not use proxies
to conceal your identity.)

I was especially amused to note that the cyberstalking kook is not
only cyberstalking and kooky, but he is also *stupid* when it comes
to understanding the medium he is flooding with his spam. He made
five posts to ars *before* he discovered proxies (snicker). All of
those came from DC/VA ip addresses. By some strange coincidence, it
happens that a certain international adoption consultant
<cough>Ronald S. Federici</cough> is based in VA.

If you wish to taunt^w present the cyberstalking kook with that
evidence of its ineptitude, I can post the details of the ip addresses.

I do hope that we haven't damaged the chew toy with excessive play.
Post-only spammers like the circle-jerkers are no fun at all. I
hope the cyberstalking kook gets interactive again. If I'm *really*
lucky he'll decide to "discredit" me, too.

John

--

Why is the <cough>anonymous</cough> cyberstalker posting as

trying so hard to discredit Monica Pignotti and other critics of
the abusive "treatment" called "Attachment Therapy"?

Why doesn't he direct people to the American Psychological
Association Division 37 Task Force position paper at
http://www.apa.org/divisions/div37/RADTaskForceManuscript.pdf
instead?

Eldon

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Jul 11, 2009, 2:20:11 PM7/11/09

to

Oh, no problem. I can see how this weirdness might disorient someone.
It's quite bizarre.

Also, see my recent review of Federici's book on Amazon.
www.amazon.com/Help-Hopeless-Child-Discussion-Post-Institutionalized/dp/0966710118/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1247336220&sr=8-1

1.0 out of 5 stars
Read the other side of the story, July 10, 2009
By Eldon Braun "EldonB" (Paris, France) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
Just put [Ronald Federici quack] into your favorite search engine and
see what pops up. His methods are not only controversial, but he has
made desperate efforts to censor legitimate criticism. See also:
Attachment Therapy on Trial: The Torture and Death of Candace Newmaker
(Child Psychology and Mental Health)

[that is a link to the book]

henri

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Jul 11, 2009, 3:00:14 PM7/11/09

to

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:28:12 -0400, John Dorsay
<restim...@gmail.com> wrote:

>If you wish to taunt^w present the cyberstalking kook with that
>evidence of its ineptitude, I can post the details of the ip addresses.

Sure. I love geeking out on shit like that, and it might provoke the
cyberstalking kook into even more entertaining spasms of idiocy.

Eldon

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Jul 11, 2009, 3:12:07 PM7/11/09

to

On Jul 11, 7:28 pm, John Dorsay <restimula...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Eldon wrote:
> > On Jul 11, 2:03 pm, f squared <frustrated.flux...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Saifee Durbar has a vision for Africa.
>
> >> He plans to build a railway linking Africa’s west coast (Cameroon)
> >> with the east coast (Sudan).
>
> >> The railroad will go through the Central African Republic. The
> >> minerals there will be used to build part of the railroad-the
> >> beginning of the long road to self sufficiency!
>
> >> Saif Durbar has worked it all out, and intends to do it in such a way
> >> as to improve the situation in Darfur as much as possible.
>
> >> For more information…
>
> >>http://saifdurbar.wordpress.com/
>
> >>http://saifeedurbar.wordpress.com/
>
> > And WTF does this have to do with Jean Mercer getting a license to
> > practice clinical psychology? Or did I mess something along the way?
>
> Jean Mercer doesn't practice clinical psychology. Yet the
> cyberstalking kook expects people to believe that her lack of an
> irrelevant license somehow invalidates her criticism of the abusive
> pseudoscientific "therapies" promoted and/or practiced by people
> such as Ronald S. Federici, Elizabeth M. Randolph, Neil I. Feinberg,
> Gregory C. Keck, and Nancy L. Thomas and described on web pages such
> as these:
>

> http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/federici.htmlhttp://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/randolph.htmlhttp://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/feinberg.htmlhttp://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/keck.htmlhttp://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/thomas.html

Oh yes, please do that. I don't have the patience for these espionage
games, but I sure admire those who do.

Hey, maybe you, Moniica and I should just tackle Dr. Federici and
mash him into the floor, screaming abuse at him until he either
confesses or suffocates. What sort of therapy do you think we should
call it?

>
> I do hope that we haven't damaged the chew toy with excessive play.
> Post-only spammers like the circle-jerkers are no fun at all. I
> hope the cyberstalking kook gets interactive again. If I'm *really*
> lucky he'll decide to "discredit" me, too.
>
> John
>
> --
>
> Why is the <cough>anonymous</cough> cyberstalker posting as
>

John Dorsay

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Jul 11, 2009, 3:20:45 PM7/11/09

to

Try not to break this squeak toy, henri. It's been a long time
since ars has been graced with a kook as articulate, arrogant, and
nasty, and stupid as this one.

The fields are mid, date, name, ip, and google account hash.

<54ce0d07-3943-42e2...@v6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:32:00 +0000 (UTC)
advocatesforch...@yahoo.com
68.101.34.63
PEqGZgoAAABzzUfx_T0rgrsAvdHN5jgs

<efa348c2-f703-4c24...@z19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Thu, 2 Apr 2009 14:15:05 +0000 (UTC)
miracleson...@yahoo.com
63.28.32.81
4vwdagoAAAD_1R1gbGZoDAXBeGQy1nF2

<3705b7a8-fe11-4ff5...@q2g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:06:32 +0000 (UTC)
sarnerpse...@yahoo.com
68.101.34.63
hhu4QQoAAABC8uSx4K-aI-F4p_GscAeL

<e3dc87fd-c965-4caa...@y13g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Fri, 3 Apr 2009 17:00:17 +0000 (UTC)
advocatesforch...@yahoo.com
68.101.34.63
PEqGZgoAAABzzUfx_T0rgrsAvdHN5jgs

<e88b4957-6c80-4fc1...@y13g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:38:07 +0000 (UTC)
advocatesforch...@yahoo.com
141.156.19.173
PEqGZgoAAABzzUfx_T0rgrsAvdHN5jgs

This is the first cyberstalking kook post through a proxy.

<9fb88314-1ca3-42d8...@o20g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
Sun, 3 May 2009 14:09:35 +0000 (UTC)
saruman...@yahoo.com
204.8.156.142
j5NBmQoAAAC2KcZXmk-MDrfAdD3wqIwW

--

Why is the <cough>anonymous</cough> cyberstalker posting as

advocatesforch...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/mlopgl)
avenging....@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/ntx742)
babustis....@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/n4aj72)
didacticd...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/lutsrq)
frustrate...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/l8pvqz)
gaussian.ge...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/l3ej9v)
miracleson...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/n44r8v)
nashvil...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/ntofx6)

nineteentwenty...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/m7wr3m)

henri

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Jul 11, 2009, 3:53:42 PM7/11/09

to

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:20:45 -0400, John Dorsay
<restim...@gmail.com> wrote:

>henri wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:28:12 -0400, John Dorsay
>> <restim...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>If you wish to taunt^w present the cyberstalking kook with that
>>>evidence of its ineptitude, I can post the details of the ip addresses.
>>
>> Sure. I love geeking out on shit like that, and it might provoke the
>> cyberstalking kook into even more entertaining spasms of idiocy.
>
>Try not to break this squeak toy, henri. It's been a long time
>since ars has been graced with a kook as articulate, arrogant, and
>nasty, and stupid as this one.

I'm mostly leaving it alone. So far, nothing too interesting about
any of those IP addresses other than their location. I suppose it's
mildly interesting that one is a cox.net address, the other is a
Verizon residential address, and the other is apparently an old UUnet
dialup.

John Dorsay

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Jul 11, 2009, 4:02:13 PM7/11/09

to

Eldon wrote:

> Oh yes, please do that. I don't have the patience for these espionage
> games, but I sure admire those who do.

It's more a matter of having more awareness of existing tools than
the typical kook. For example, anyone can click on the google
profile for advocatesforch...@yahoo.com, and voila!
Instant amusement!

It doesn't take much more work to notice that the first post from
sarnerpse...@yahoo.com came from the same idiot that posted
as advocatesforch...@yahoo.com. At this point, those of
us who find such things entertaining are off and running.

Although I haven't done so, it might be amusing to download the
newsfeeds from other groups that show up in the kook's google
profiles, and run the same script that spits out the information in
my reply to rob.

Maybe if I have a few minutes later, I will. The time consuming
part is going through the google profiles and identifying the groups.

> Hey, maybe you, Moniica and I should just tackle Dr. Federici and
> mash him into the floor, screaming abuse at him until he either
> confesses or suffocates. What sort of therapy do you think we should
> call it?

Why not just go with the existing nomenclature and call it
"Attachment Therapy"? You got something against abusive pseudoscience?

John

--

Why is the <cough>anonymous</cough> cyberstalker posting as

advocatesforch...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/mlopgl)

avenging....@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/ntx742)
babustis....@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/n4aj72)
didacticd...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/lutsrq)
frustrate...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/l8pvqz)
gaussian.ge...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/l3ej9v)
miracleson...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/n44r8v)
nashvil...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/ntofx6)

nineteentwenty...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/m7wr3m)

parro...@googlemail.com (http://tinyurl.com/ne9on4)
particle...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/lvhcsk)
sapphir...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/mxmzs7)
sarnerpse...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/l9aqmp)
saruman...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/ncdf5t)

somati...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/ll799u)

Hartley Patterson

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Jul 11, 2009, 5:41:27 PM7/11/09

to

Eldo...@aol.com says:
>
> On Jul 11, 2:03 pm, f squared <frustrated.flux...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Saifee Durbar has a vision for Africa.

> And WTF does this have to do with Jean Mercer getting a license to
> practice clinical psychology?

Nothing. Our nasty loony friend seems to think that starting its posts
with something irrelevant will hook readers in.

alt.religion.scientology, soc.culture.ukrainian, alt.clearing.avatar,
soc.culture.turkish, alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

And, er, trim crossposts folks? That's FOUR not newbie posters
crossposting so far in this thread? With any luck you can provoke it
into carefully replacing the crossposts, as one obsessive crossposter
here used to do.

--
69 Ways to spot a Suppressive Person
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_10.htm

John Dorsay

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Jul 11, 2009, 5:44:34 PM7/11/09

to

John Dorsay wrote:
> Eldon wrote:

> Maybe if I have a few minutes later, I will. The time consuming
> part is going through the google profiles and identifying the groups.

Wow. The cyberstalking asshole has spammed at least 179 groups with
the posting ids I know of.

I'm going to pick a *few* from those I think are most interesting
(I'm thinking alt.adoption, alt.adoption.issues, alt.education,
alt.health, alt.books.reviews, alt.recovery,
alt.support.child-protective-services, the misc.health and sci.med
groups) and have at them.

I'll let you know if I find any smoking gun.

John

alt.abortion
alt.adoption
alt.adoption.issues
alt.alien.visitors
alt.atheism
alt.baldspot
alt.bible
alt.books.reviews
alt.clearing.avatar
alt.conspiracy
alt.culture.alaska
alt.culture.armenian
alt.education
alt.fan.penn-n-teller
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
alt.folklore.urban
alt.france
alt.gossip.celebrities
alt.hacker
alt.health
alt.math
alt.med.fibromyalgia
alt.military.retired
alt.music.rush
alt.news.macedonia
alt.pagan
alt.paranet.paranormal
alt.philosophy.debate
alt.philosophy.zen
alt.politics
alt.politics.democrats
alt.politics.liberalism
alt.politics.media
alt.politics.religion
alt.politics.republicans
alt.politics.socialism.trotsky
alt.politics.usa
alt.radio.talk.dr-laura
alt.recovery
alt.religion.christian.baptist
alt.religion.christianity
alt.religion.islam
alt.religion.scientology
alt.revisionism
alt.rock-n-roll
alt.rush-limbaugh
alt.sci.philosophy
alt.slack
alt.society.liberalism
alt.support.child-protective-services
alt.support.depression
alt.support.depression.medication
alt.support.dissociation
alt.support.mult-sclerosis
alt.support.schizophrenia
alt.talk.creationism
alt.torture
alt.tv.sopranos
comp.lang.java.security
comp.theory
de.sci.medizin.psychiatrie
misc.education.medical
misc.health.alternative
misc.health.diabetes
misc.invest.futures
misc.kids
misc.kids.breastfeeding
misc.kids.health
misc.legal
mozilla.feedback.companion.ebay
nyc.politics
rec.arts.movies.local.indian
rec.arts.poems
rec.arts.sf.written
rec.aviation.hang-gliding
rec.aviation.soaring
rec.bicycles.misc
rec.food.cooking
rec.gambling.poker
rec.music.classical
rec.music.makers.guitar
rec.music.misc
rec.music.theory
rec.puzzles
rec.radio.amateur.misc
rec.radio.shortwave
rec.sport.football.college
sci.econ
sci.electronics.components
sci.electronics.design
sci.energy
sci.engr
sci.geo.meteorology
sci.lang
sci.logic
sci.math
sci.math.num-analysis
sci.math.symbolic
sci.med
sci.med.cardiology
sci.med.dentistry
sci.med.diseases.cancer
sci.med.diseases.hepatitis
sci.med.diseases.lyme
sci.med.immunology
sci.med.informatics
sci.med.nutrition
sci.med.pathology
sci.med.pharmacy
sci.med.psychobiology
sci.med.radiology
sci.med.vision
sci.physics
sci.physics.electromag
sci.physics.particle
sci.psychology.misc
sci.psychology.psychotherapy
sci.skeptic
sci.space.history
sci.stat.consult
sci.techniques.spectroscopy
soc.culture.african
soc.culture.argentina
soc.culture.austria
soc.culture.baltics
soc.culture.belgium
soc.culture.bolivia
soc.culture.brazil
soc.culture.british
soc.culture.bulgaria
soc.culture.canada
soc.culture.chile
soc.culture.china
soc.culture.colombia
soc.culture.cuba
soc.culture.ecuador
soc.culture.filipino
soc.culture.french
soc.culture.german
soc.culture.greek
soc.culture.indian
soc.culture.indonesia
soc.culture.iranian
soc.culture.israel
soc.culture.italian
soc.culture.japan
soc.culture.jewish
soc.culture.korean
soc.culture.laos
soc.culture.latin-america
soc.culture.lebanon
soc.culture.malaysia
soc.culture.mexican
soc.culture.netherlands
soc.culture.nordic
soc.culture.pakistan
soc.culture.palestine
soc.culture.peru
soc.culture.polish
soc.culture.romanian
soc.culture.russian
soc.culture.scientists
soc.culture.singapore
soc.culture.spain
soc.culture.syria
soc.culture.taiwan
soc.culture.thai
soc.culture.turkish
soc.culture.ukrainian
soc.culture.usa
soc.culture.venezuela
soc.history.science
soc.men
soc.religion.quaker
soc.rights.human
talk.politics.guns
talk.politics.medicine
talk.politics.misc
uk.people.adoption.misc

John Dorsay

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Jul 11, 2009, 5:46:06 PM7/11/09

to

Hartley Patterson wrote:
> Eldo...@aol.com says:
>>
>> On Jul 11, 2:03 pm, f squared <frustrated.flux...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Saifee Durbar has a vision for Africa.
>
>> And WTF does this have to do with Jean Mercer getting a license to
>> practice clinical psychology?
>
> Nothing. Our nasty loony friend seems to think that starting its posts
> with something irrelevant will hook readers in.
>
> alt.religion.scientology, soc.culture.ukrainian, alt.clearing.avatar,
> soc.culture.turkish, alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
>
> And, er, trim crossposts folks? That's FOUR not newbie posters
> crossposting so far in this thread? With any luck you can provoke it
> into carefully replacing the crossposts, as one obsessive crossposter
> here used to do.

:(

Point taken.

John

HAPPYsamurai

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Jul 11, 2009, 6:17:42 PM7/11/09

to

On 12 July, 06:20, Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
> Just put [Ronald Federici quack] into your favorite search engine and
> see what pops up. His methods are not only controversial, but he has
> made desperate efforts to censor legitimate criticism.

what! censoring criticism?

do you think there was something missing in his upbringing?

Android Cat

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Jul 11, 2009, 6:55:00 PM7/11/09

to

On Jul 11, 5:44 pm, John Dorsay <restimula...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow. The cyberstalking asshole has spammed at least 179 groups with
> the posting ids I know of.
>
> I'm going to pick a *few* from those I think are most interesting
> (I'm thinking alt.adoption, alt.adoption.issues, alt.education,
> alt.health, alt.books.reviews, alt.recovery,
> alt.support.child-protective-services, the misc.health and sci.med
> groups) and have at them.
>
> I'll let you know if I find any smoking gun.

Keyword searches might turn up more. Unless he's just trolling, there
are probably posts from his ur-identity back before he started using a
mess of disposable identities and hiding behind proxies.

(I'm not going to look just now, since I'm portable on a netbook this
weekend, and I don't have *all* my tools with me.)

Interesting that the CircleJerk posts stopped a few days ago...

--
Ron of that ilk.

Harry Brogan

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Jul 11, 2009, 7:17:22 PM7/11/09

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Personally...I feel that we have ENOUGH problems of OUR OWN that we
shouldn't be spending MILLIONS on some poor African country.

John Dorsay

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Jul 11, 2009, 7:53:49 PM7/11/09

to

Android Cat wrote:
> On Jul 11, 5:44 pm, John Dorsay <restimula...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Wow. The cyberstalking asshole has spammed at least 179 groups with
>> the posting ids I know of.
>>
>> I'm going to pick a *few* from those I think are most interesting
>> (I'm thinking alt.adoption, alt.adoption.issues, alt.education,
>> alt.health, alt.books.reviews, alt.recovery,
>> alt.support.child-protective-services, the misc.health and sci.med
>> groups) and have at them.
>>
>> I'll let you know if I find any smoking gun.
>
> Keyword searches might turn up more. Unless he's just trolling, there
> are probably posts from his ur-identity back before he started using a
> mess of disposable identities and hiding behind proxies.

That might be more effective. The problem I have with a keyword
search is restricting the result set to something that includes a
reasonably high signal. This guy has provoked a *lot* of noise
(John nods sheepishly in Hartley's direction and says "sorry", even
as he adds a couple of xposts to this very article).

I've gone through alt and soc.adoption.* on my isps feed, looking
for known ip addresses and known posting ids used by the
cyberstalking kook.

Although there is not a lot of additional evidence, what there is
certainly points in a consistent direction.

For example, these two posts are from one of the cyberstalking
kook's known ids. They precede the earliest ars spam.
http://tinyurl.com/lt5kx6 and http://tinyurl.com/nqt8ha.

The interesting header details are here (the ip address is familiar):

<92f131d8-469c-4b3f...@z14g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Sat, 28 Mar 2009 19:57:35 +0000 (UTC)
saruman...@yahoo.com
68.101.34.63
j5NBmQoAAAC2KcZXmk-MDrfAdD3wqIwW

<07e49262-99c2-4d11...@e2g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:03:48 +0000 (UTC)
saruman...@yahoo.com
68.101.34.63
j5NBmQoAAAC2KcZXmk-MDrfAdD3wqIwW

Then there is a hit on a Swedish proxy the cyberstalking moron has
also used in his smear campaign, that picked up a previously
unknown-to-me id:

<dbbce79f-1934-49e7...@f18g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Sat, 11 Apr 2009 21:23:18 +0000 (UTC)
ukrainian...@yahoo.com
213.112.108.203
f5YL0gkAAAAnbT-f1bL2cIvzhgLQ31J5

The google profile for this id is http://tinyurl.com/mrcglf. There
are only three posts associated with it, all linking to a blog which
is nothing but a commercial for a certain familiar international
adoption consultant <cough>Ronald S. Federici</cough>. Maybe if I
quote it in its entirety he'll DMCA me (snicker).

===========
begin quote
===========

Ukrainian Adoptions

Dr. Ronald Federici

Dr. Ronald S. Federici is a Board Certified Developmental
Neuropsychologist and regarded as one of the country’s leading
experts in the neuropsychological evaluation and treatment of
severely disturbed children, particularly children from
post-institutionalized settings. He serves a Clinical Director of
Neuropsychological and Family Therapy Associates in McLean,
Virginia. He has appeared on numerous talk shows, radio talk shows
and has written numerous articles for national and international
magazines and newspapers. He is also the author of Help for the
Hopeless Child.

Dr. Federici understands adoption firsthand, having adopted children
from both Romania and Ukraine.

Dr. Federici is an internationally recognized expert, and has served
as an adoption consultant to Angelina Jolie.

=========
end quote
=========

I wonder if that could *possibly* be the same Ronald Federici that
promotes abusive pseudoscientific therapy as described at
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/proponents/federici.html?

> (I'm not going to look just now, since I'm portable on a netbook this
> weekend, and I don't have *all* my tools with me.)

Not sure how much more value there is in continuing the search. If
the cyberstalking kook is not Federici himself, then it's one of
his close collaborators/supporters. I don't think it matters if we
can identify the specific individual. We know why the whackjob is
cyberstalking, and who is supposed to benefit from the smear
campaign. Don't let me discourage you from poking around too, but
I'm done.

> Interesting that the CircleJerk posts stopped a few days ago...

Wouldn't it be a hoot if it turns out they were colluding :)

John

--

Why is the <cough>anonymous</cough> cyberstalker posting as

trying so hard to discredit Monica Pignotti and other critics of
the abusive "treatment" called "Attachment Therapy"?

Why doesn't he direct people to the American Psychological
Association Division 37 Task Force position paper at
http://www.apa.org/divisions/div37/RADTaskForceManuscript.pdf
instead?

--

"Phenobarbital is also helpful in getting off Xanax."

Paul Horner
dba silver...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/8japvj)
dba kand...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/clpvqw)
dba lifecasa...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/dyqt86)
aka Fred Durks
aka BarbaraSc...@gmail.com
aka JamesWestfa...@gmail.com
aka kennethno...@gmail.com
aka netskril...@gmail.com
aka pa...@netskrill.com
aka paul.step...@gmail.com
http://tinyurl.com/dmzayd

> HAHAHA when u go to lifecds and respond to them for a contact, it
> links you to a porn site called "fighttofuck". this guy is an outright
> liar and scammer.
>
> noisewater, you are SCUM

Those are called outgoing links. It's for SEO, you stupid fuck.

SEO expert Paul Stephen Horner educates the rabble in alt.drugs.heroin
http://tinyurl.com/cfykzh, message ID
<e89c2142-3c00-40b5...@r31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

John Dorsay

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Jul 11, 2009, 10:00:36 PM7/11/09

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John Dorsay wrote:

<snip>

> I've gone through alt and soc.adoption.* on my isps feed, looking
> for known ip addresses and known posting ids used by the
> cyberstalking kook.
>
> Although there is not a lot of additional evidence, what there is
> certainly points in a consistent direction.

<snip>

I was just about to shut down my computer when I noticed that the
scan of the alt/soc.adoption.* groups found another unknown-to-me id.

<0690d0ff-1247-4026...@e20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Sat, 2 May 2009 12:51:21 +0000 (UTC)
preparingf...@yahoo.com
62.141.53.224

This one, posted through a gGerman proxy also used by the insane
cyberstalking kook, has a google profile http://tinyurl.com/n8w3zt
that lists only two posts.

The subjects are "dr. ronald federici" and "ronald federici -
internationally recognized adoption therapist".

Golly, I wonder who the insane cyberstalking kook could be.

John

--

Why is the <cough>anonymous</cough> cyberstalker posting as

preparingf...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/n8w3zt)

sapphir...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/mxmzs7)
sarnerpse...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/l9aqmp)
saruman...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/ncdf5t)
somati...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/ll799u)

ukrainian...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/mrcglf)

Eldon

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Jul 12, 2009, 5:53:00 AM7/12/09

to

On Jul 11, 11:44 pm, John Dorsay <restimula...@gmail.com> wrote:
> John Dorsay wrote:
> > Eldon wrote:
> > Maybe if I have a few minutes later, I will. The time consuming
> > part is going through the google profiles and identifying the groups.
>
> Wow. The cyberstalking asshole has spammed at least 179 groups with
> the posting ids I know of.

OMG, this is becoming quite an amusement, isn't it? I find it amazing
that anyone would go on such an individual rampage. Opening all those
e-mail accounts and spamming all those groups surely consumed some
time and effort, and we assume the perp doesn't have a "special
affairs" staff like David Miscavige to do it for him (making a not-
very-unlikely gender assumption).

Sounds like a psychopath to me.

Hartley Patterson

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Jul 12, 2009, 6:59:57 AM7/12/09

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restim...@gmail.com says:

> Wouldn't it be a hoot if it turns out they were colluding :)

After the CoS sold courses to the Nation of Islam and the two cults
starting saying nice things about each other I'll believe anything...

--
alt.religion.scientology FAQ
Please read before posting
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/faq.htm

realpch

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Jul 12, 2009, 2:55:50 PM7/12/09

to

If it is Dr. Fred, he's shouting in our faces. Next our bathroom
privileges will be suspended.

Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com

John Dorsay

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Jul 12, 2009, 3:30:15 PM7/12/09

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realpch wrote:

> If it is Dr. Fred, he's shouting in our faces. Next our bathroom
> privileges will be suspended.

To be followed by eternal damnation, no doubt. I can't think of any
other reason for the bizarre switch from cyberstalking Monica to
quoting bible passages.

SINNERS (especially opponents of abusive pseudoscientific
"treatment") REPENT! BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!

Monica Pignotti

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Jul 12, 2009, 5:29:49 PM7/12/09

to

On Jul 11, 10:00 pm, John Dorsay <restimula...@gmail.com> wrote:
> John Dorsay wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > I've gone through alt and soc.adoption.* on my isps feed, looking
> > for known ip addresses and known posting ids used by the
> > cyberstalking kook.
>
> > Although there is not a lot of additional evidence, what there is
> > certainly points in a consistent direction.
>
> <snip>
>
> I was just about to shut down my computer when I noticed that the
> scan of the alt/soc.adoption.* groups found another unknown-to-me id.
>

> <0690d0ff-1247-4026-9e31-ce215e104...@e20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

> Sat, 2 May 2009 12:51:21 +0000 (UTC)

> preparingforadopt...@yahoo.com

> 62.141.53.224
>
> This one, posted through a gGerman proxy also used by the insane

> cyberstalking kook, has a google profilehttp://tinyurl.com/n8w3zt

> that lists only two posts.
>
> The subjects are "dr. ronald federici" and "ronald federici -
> internationally recognized adoption therapist".
>
> Golly, I wonder who the insane cyberstalking kook could be.
>

I wondered if this could be one of his patients doing it at his
instigation -- there's no way to know for sure, but I have to wonder.
This kook seems to be giving all the other kooks who have come onto
ARS over the years some pretty stiff competition and is actually
making some of them look pretty sane and rational, by comparison.

Monica

henri

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Jul 12, 2009, 5:56:55 PM7/12/09

to

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:29:49 -0700 (PDT), Monica Pignotti
<pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

[Adoption groups retained to warn everyone against the "services" of
the cyberstalking lunatic Ronald Federici who is clearly deranged.]

>> The subjects are "dr. ronald federici" and "ronald federici -
>> internationally recognized adoption therapist".

>> Golly, I wonder who the insane cyberstalking kook could be.

>I wondered if this could be one of his patients doing it at his
>instigation -- there's no way to know for sure, but I have to wonder.
>This kook seems to be giving all the other kooks who have come onto
>ARS over the years some pretty stiff competition and is actually
>making some of them look pretty sane and rational, by comparison.

In any case, it is no great advertisement for the dubious services of
Ronald Federici that he apparently has time to stalk people in a
lunatic fashion on Usenet all day long, or for that matter, puts other
people up to it.

I can't imagine anyone would willingly hire a demented idiot of this
sort to do anything responsible. I shudder for anyone suckered by
this insane, cyberstalking kook.

John Dorsay

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Jul 12, 2009, 8:40:57 PM7/12/09

to

Monica Pignotti wrote:

> I wondered if this could be one of his patients doing it at his
> instigation -- there's no way to know for sure, but I have to wonder.
> This kook seems to be giving all the other kooks who have come onto
> ARS over the years some pretty stiff competition and is actually
> making some of them look pretty sane and rational, by comparison.

As you say, there is no way to know for sure who actually posted the
cyberstalking messages. However, there is no reasonable doubt
whatsoever about Federici's involvement. Federici knew about the
cyberstalking and Federici supported the cyberstalking. That is clear.

The only question is this: Did Federici do his own dirty work or
did he engage someone else to do it on his behalf? I don't know, I
don't care, it doesn't matter. Either way, Federici is now known,
and quite rightly, as an insane cyberstalking kook.

Monica Pignotti

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Jul 12, 2009, 9:27:26 PM7/12/09

to

On Jul 12, 8:40 pm, John Dorsay <restimula...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Monica Pignotti wrote:
> > I wondered if this could be one of his patients doing it at his
> > instigation -- there's no way to know for sure, but I have to wonder.
> > This kook seems to be giving all the other kooks who have come onto
> > ARS over the years some pretty stiff competition and is actually
> > making some of them look pretty sane and rational, by comparison.
>
> As you say, there is no way to know for sure who actually posted the
> cyberstalking messages. However, there is no reasonable doubt
> whatsoever about Federici's involvement. Federici knew about the
> cyberstalking and Federici supported the cyberstalking. That is clear.
>
> The only question is this: Did Federici do his own dirty work or
> did he engage someone else to do it on his behalf? I don't know, I
> don't care, it doesn't matter. Either way, Federici is now known,
> and quite rightly, as an insane cyberstalking kook.
>
> John
>
> --
>
> Why is the <cough>anonymous</cough> cyberstalker posting as
>

> advocatesforchildreninther...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/mlopgl)
> avenging.arcsec...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/ntx742)
> babustis.chromas...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/n4aj72)
> didacticderivat...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/lutsrq)
> frustrated.flux...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/l8pvqz)
> gaussian.generalizat...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/l3ej9v)
> miraclesonmainstr...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/n44r8v)
> nashvilletun...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/ntofx6)

> nineteentwentyeight.overt...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/m7wr3m)

> parrottk...@googlemail.com (http://tinyurl.com/ne9on4)
> particle.princ...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/lvhcsk)

> preparingforadopt...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/n8w3zt)

> sapphire.tr...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/mxmzs7)
> sarnerpseudoscie...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/l9aqmp)
> sarumaniseng...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/ncdf5t)
> somatic.a...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/ll799u)

> ukrainianadopti...@yahoo.com (http://tinyurl.com/mrcglf)

>
> trying so hard to discredit Monica Pignotti and other critics of
> the abusive "treatment" called "Attachment Therapy"?
>
> Why doesn't he direct people to the American Psychological
> Association Division 37 Task Force position paper athttp://www.apa.org/divisions/div37/RADTaskForceManuscript.pdf
> instead?

Yes, what it comes down to is whether it is the cult leader that is
doing this or one of his members. The usual MO of a cult leader is to
have the members do the dirty work for him, that way if the person is
caught, that person takes the rap and the leader gets off scott free
(as has happened in Scientology) but I agree, what matters is that we
know who is behind this.

BTW, in addition to all these usenet groups he's been posting to, he's
also been taking out classified ads in various places with the same
type of spam. He's been very busy. Here's one he ran in the Village
Voice:

http://villagevoice.backpage.com/GeneralCommunity/monica_pignotti_math_doesn_t_work_/classifieds/ViewAd?oid=7774656

Monica

realpch

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Jul 12, 2009, 10:03:45 PM7/12/09

to

Look on the bright side. This guy is gonna make you famous!

barbz

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Jul 13, 2009, 1:51:07 AM7/13/09

to

Wait...what?
I just bought a timeshare from him! Are you telling me that was a bad
move? Cuz the brochures looked so damned good!

--
xenubarb
Chaplain, ARSCCwdne

A walk down the path of history is crunchy with the crispy corpses of
those who pooh-poohed or ignored the clown car of ridicule when it
pulled-up to the curb.

Stephen Jones