Three Articles in SP Times
T. Devon Sharkey
Scientology was hammered today with three critical articles. One of
them details eight mysterious deaths which can be traced in some
fashion back to the Church. Of particular interest I found this
section:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearwater police are suspicious about the number of 911
calls that come from rooms at the Fort Harrison Hotel. Police respond
to each call only to be told most of the time by Scientology
security guards that the call was a mistake. Police are not allowed
to check individual rooms where the calls originated.
In the past 11 months, 161 calls to 911 were made from
rooms in the hotel, but each time Scientology security guards said
there was no emergency.
Scientology officials say most of the calls are
mistakes that occur when foreign visitors try to dial the
international access code, 011, after dialing a 9 to get an outside
line. They are working with police to resolve the problem, Fugate
said.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do other places with foreign visitors have similar problems?
Does dialing 9-0-1-1 get you the emergency number?
Aren't 9-1-1 calls taped? If so, what, if anything, can be heard
regarding the call?
Pan
http://www.sptimes.com/News2/120797/NATIONAL/For_some_Scientologis.html
T. Devon Sharkey wrote in message <348ab4ce...@news.mindspring.com>...
Dutch
There's another article, about the clut's attack on Clearwater
Police Chief Sid Klien, in the Metro & State section of the
St. Pete Times, Paraphrased:
Scientologists Attack Police Chief in Letter
By Thomas C. Tobin
CLEARWATER- The Church of Scientology raised the temperature
Saturday in its new campaign against Clearwater Police Chief Sid
Klien, Calling him "reactionary" and bigoted, and blaming him for
" a two decade patteron of discrimination" against the church
At the same time, church officials insisted that they should not be
accused of stirring up controvery and said Scientologists should
receive more credit for the community events they support.
But Klien's boss, City manager Mike Roberto, called the church's
statements "extremely discouraging" and said he fully supports
the Chief.
.........
Scientology's letter, signed by church spokesman Brian Anderson, outlined
an arrary of of grievences against Klien, at one point refering to
to him dirisively as " Big Sid ".
It also demanded straight answers to the church's questions Friday
concerning police department records. The chuirch has strongly
suggested it is planning a civil rights lawsuit against the city and has
put Klien on notice that he should keep any relevant documents
in order, including taped recording of his conversations.
" I want assurance that you aren't destorying evidence ". Anderson
wrote, adding later in the letter: " Stop acting like I'm trying to to
stir up a controversy. We have a seven year record of of doing everything
in our power to create friendly community relations ".
----------
Klein could not be reached after the letter was released, but
his spokesman, Wayne Shelor, dismissed it as " A schizophrenic
diatribe ".
**************
Way to go Shelor,... you hit the nail on the head :)
As for the cult's claims of a " seven year record of doing everything
in our power to create freindly community relations" and that
they should " Recieve more credit for the community events they
support "... this is sheer propoganda,.. I live in Clearwater, the only
thing the Scino's support is their own agenda and disinformation campaign.
Pan <p...@syix.com> wrote in article <66eer0$n55$1...@neko.syix.com>...
Ted Mayett (KoX)
On 7 Dec 1997 19:02:48 GMT, "Dutch" <du...@biteme.com> wrote:
>There's another article, about the clut's attack on Clearwater
>Police Chief Sid Klien, in the Metro & State section of the
>St. Pete Times, Paraphrased:
>
>Scientologists Attack Police Chief in Letter
>
Good article.
http://www.sptimes.com/News2/120797/METROANDSTATE/Scientologists_attack.html
Here the paper says there were 3000-4000 clams at their picket.
--
Ted Mayett OT 1.1
http://xenu.phys.uit.no/cgi-bin/globloc.cgi
Unit 61
T. Devon Sharkey wrote:
>
> Scientology was hammered today with three critical articles. One of
> them details eight mysterious deaths which can be traced in some
> fashion back to the Church. Of particular interest I found this
> section:
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Clearwater police are suspicious about the number of 911
> calls that come from rooms at the Fort Harrison Hotel. Police respond
> to each call only to be told most of the time by Scientology
> security guards that the call was a mistake. Police are not allowed
> to check individual rooms where the calls originated.
I am a police officer and where I work these calls are checked
out until we are satisfied that there is no emergency.
I would want to speak in person to the person making the call
(or dialing by mistake) and would want to check out the location
that the call originated from. Anyone who would deny me investigating
any of this would likely be arrested for obstructing an officer.
This is no way intended to criticize the police, or their procedure
in Clearwater.
> In the past 11 months, 161 calls to 911 were made from
> rooms in the hotel, but each time Scientology security guards said
> there was no emergency.
I also work in the 911 center and this sounds like a bunch of bullshit
with that many calls.
>
> Scientology officials say most of the calls are
> mistakes that occur when foreign visitors try to dial the
> international access code, 011, after dialing a 9 to get an outside
> line. They are working with police to resolve the problem, Fugate
> said.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Do other places with foreign visitors have similar problems?
>
> Does dialing 9-0-1-1 get you the emergency number?
>
> Aren't 9-1-1 calls taped? If so, what, if anything, can be heard
> regarding the call?
Most, if not all, PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point) record all
emergency calls, and probably administrative calls as well.
John
Zane
> In the past 11 months, 161 calls to 911 were made from
>rooms in the hotel, but each time Scientology security guards said
>there was no emergency.
W O W ! ! !
One call every other day or so? That's a lot of 911 calls.
> Scientology officials say most of the calls are
>mistakes that occur when foreign visitors try to dial the
>international access code, 011, after dialing a 9 to get an outside
>line.
BULLSHIT ALERT!
Unlike us here in the US people from other countries, and especially
Europe, are quite familiar with country codes and international
dialing. I don't believe the story.
Also I note that they say "most of the calls are mistakes". And what
about the others?
Zane
Otmar Lendl
Zane <z_thomas@die_spammers.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 07 Dec 1997 14:48:20 GMT, tde...@mindspring.com (T. Devon
>Sharkey) wrote:
>
>> Scientology officials say most of the calls are
>>mistakes that occur when foreign visitors try to dial the
>>international access code, 011, after dialing a 9 to get an outside
>>line.
>
>BULLSHIT ALERT!
>
>Unlike us here in the US people from other countries, and especially
>Europe, are quite familiar with country codes and international
>dialing. I don't believe the story.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. While we europeans have lots of
experience with international calling, the procedures for getting
an international line differs in the US. Especially different
prefixes from a room phone for a local dial-tone and a long distance
one are often confusing.
And the "up-one-level" digit is "0" here, and not "1" as in the US.
The US system with all the different long-distance carriers is
quite different from what's in use in most parts of europe.
otmar
--
/ Otmar Lendl (le...@cosy.sbg.ac.at) # http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~lendl/ \
\ Killfiles generate SEP fields. Beware: the CE-Norm does not cover them. /
Xenu Mania
On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Zane wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Dec 1997 14:48:20 GMT, tde...@mindspring.com (T. Devon
> Sharkey) wrote:
>
> > In the past 11 months, 161 calls to 911 were made from
> >rooms in the hotel, but each time Scientology security guards said
> >there was no emergency.
>
> BULLSHIT ALERT!
>
> Unlike us here in the US people from other countries, and especially
> Europe, are quite familiar with country codes and international
> dialing. I don't believe the story.
The first page of my phone book says: IN AN EMERGENCY DIAL 9 1 1.
Joe Cisar
reply to: iy...@cleveland.freenet.edu
For Volcanoes of Fun, Try Xenu Mania !
http://www.innernet.net/joecisar/index.htm
I'm not AGAINST Scientology. I'm FOR freedom.
When they beat a picketer, I said nothing, for I was not a picketer.
Martin Hunt
In article <348B30...@execpc.com>, Unit 61 <zjohn...@execpc.com> wrote:
>T. Devon Sharkey wrote:
>> calls that come from rooms at the Fort Harrison Hotel. Police respond
>> to each call only to be told most of the time by Scientology
>> security guards that the call was a mistake. Police are not allowed
>> to check individual rooms where the calls originated.
>
>I am a police officer and where I work these calls are checked
>out until we are satisfied that there is no emergency.
>I would want to speak in person to the person making the call
>(or dialing by mistake) and would want to check out the location
>that the call originated from. Anyone who would deny me investigating
>any of this would likely be arrested for obstructing an officer.
I just had an experience with this here; my son dialed 911 by
accident. The police checked thoroughly into the call before
departing. Don't they do the same thing in Clearwater? Why
wouldn't the police be allowed to check individual rooms where
the calls originated? Something's very fishy here.
Can 911 calls be accessed through FOIA requests? Is there any
way someone could talk with the 911 office in Clearwater and
dig into this some more? I think Scientology's hiding something
here. *Hundreds* of 911 calls coming out of Flag and *not one*
is looked into?
No, something's very wrong here. This needs to be looked into.
Even if, as they say, a lot are mistakes (probably quite true),
I suspect a few at least were legitimate calls from worried
people being threatened to be put into isolation, wanting to
get out, etc. Is there any way to see when the calls were made,
at least? Was there a spike in the numbers at the time Lisa
was dying? Maybe some staff *did* want to do something about
it, but couldn't get their message out...
--
Cogito, ergo sum. FAQs: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
"I don't 'think' anymore. I mean, it's actually an effort to go back
down into that level again." - Success story from "P.S.", an OT V.
solitaire
Unit 61 wrote:
>
> T. Devon Sharkey wrote:
> >
> > them details eight mysterious deaths which can be traced in some
> > fashion back to the Church. Of particular interest I found this
> > section:
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Clearwater police are suspicious about the number of 911
> > to each call only to be told most of the time by Scientology
> > security guards that the call was a mistake. Police are not allowed
> > to check individual rooms where the calls originated.
>
> I am a police officer and where I work these calls are checked
> out until we are satisfied that there is no emergency.
> I would want to speak in person to the person making the call
> (or dialing by mistake) and would want to check out the location
> that the call originated from. Anyone who would deny me investigating
> any of this would likely be arrested for obstructing an officer.
>
> in Clearwater.
There is no way you can NOT criticize the local police on this one.
Proper procedure REQUIRES that the officer who answers the call speak
DIRECTLY to the person who placed the call, not some thugs masquerading
as 'security'. If the local cops choose to back down and accept some
bullshit story about international dialing protocols, that is
dereliction of duty. Maybe they should call INTERPOL and see if any
other CoS residential centers have had such a rash of "mistake" calls,
whether in the US or in other countries.
> > In the past 11 months, 161 calls to 911 were made from
> > rooms in the hotel, but each time Scientology security guards said
> > there was no emergency.
How many actual foreign residents do they have there? That would be 15
or so a month, right? If all these people can read English, or just
read the international phone symbols in the phone directories, they'd
know that 911 was the police.
> I also work in the 911 center and this sounds like a bunch of bullshit
> with that many calls.
> > Scientology officials say most of the calls are
> > mistakes that occur when foreign visitors try to dial the
> > international access code, 011, after dialing a 9 to get an outside
> > line. They are working with police to resolve the problem, Fugate
> > said.
Gee, they _ALL_ 'COINCIDENTALLY' forget to hit the 0 of the
international exchange?
I thought these were supposed to be superior people.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Do other places with foreign visitors have similar problems?
> >
> > Does dialing 9-0-1-1 get you the emergency number?
> >
> > Aren't 9-1-1 calls taped? If so, what, if anything, can be heard
> > regarding the call?
>
> Most, if not all, PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point) record all
> emergency calls, and probably administrative calls as well.
>
> John
Most areas tape these, but not all. Someone ask the local Chief of
Police?
--
solitaire
jbwebb
I have no doubt that the 911 calls were a mistake. Probably people
thought if you dialed the 9 first, you didn't need to dial the 0.
Ridiculous that this was included in the article. The facts should be
enough without all the biased speculation. I'm sorry, but I found the
article inflammatory without much cause. The deaths that were normal,
such as the guy drowning in the bay and the other one, not looking the
proper way and being run over, shouldn't have been compared to the
strange deaths. You shouldn't have to read these articles with a big
bullshit detector.
When I was in London, I had a very hard time remembering to look to my
right, not left, when I crossed the street. One time, I almost got hit
by a car.
Take care
Joni
Ex Mudder
Err... how many people at Flag can afford to make long distance
international calls?
We would need more information, such as what was said to the
dispatcher, and if the phone records indicate completed overseas
calls.
David Lesher
le...@cosy.sbg.ac.at (Otmar Lendl) writes:
>>> Scientology officials say most of the calls are
>>>mistakes that occur when foreign visitors try to dial the
>>>international access code, 011, after dialing a 9 to get an outside
>>>line.
{debate}
This is possible. Euro-dialing is different. People screw up.
But why hasn't the 911 Authority in the region required
the PBX be modified to report the room # doing the calling?
This is typically done on dorm phones on campus, for example...
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
rgonnet
Dutch wrote:
> There's another article, about the clut's attack on Clearwater
> Police Chief Sid Klien, in the Metro & State section of the
> St. Pete Times, Paraphrased:
>
> Scientologists Attack Police Chief in Letter
>
> By Thomas C. Tobin
A lot of those are translated in french on :
<http://wwwperso.hol.fr/~rgonnet/indexE.htm>
(Lisa Mc Pherson's index with most of the best articles known from at least 5
papers)
Roger
James J. Lippard
In article <34cc1d5a....@snews.zippo.com>,
Zane <z_thomas@die_spammers.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 07 Dec 1997 14:48:20 GMT, tde...@mindspring.com (T. Devon
>Sharkey) wrote:
>
>>rooms in the hotel, but each time Scientology security guards said
>>there was no emergency.
>
>
>One call every other day or so? That's a lot of 911 calls.
>
>>mistakes that occur when foreign visitors try to dial the
>>international access code, 011, after dialing a 9 to get an outside
>>line.
>
>
>Unlike us here in the US people from other countries, and especially
>Europe, are quite familiar with country codes and international
>dialing. I don't believe the story.
>
>about the others?
When my company switched to a new phone system recently, we had exactly
this problem--lots of accidental calls to 911, followed by hangups.
When this happens, the police have to come out. So now everyone has
been informed that when you accidentally dial 911, stay on the line
and tell them it was a mistake.
--
Jim Lippard lippard@(primenet.com ediacara.org skeptic.com)
Phoenix, Arizona http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/
PGP Fingerprint: B130 7BE1 18C1 AA4C 4D51 388F 6E6D 2C7A 36D3 CB4F
geoffb
In article <wb8fozEK...@netcom.com>, wb8...@netcom.com (David Lesher)
wrote:
>
>But why hasn't the 911 Authority in the region required
>the PBX be modified to report the room # doing the calling?
>This is typically done on dorm phones on campus, for example...
>
They just did something similar here where I work... all campus phones
calling 9-911 report the room and building number info. (This is called
"Enhanced 911" in the United States and has only been available in New
Hampshire for a short while.)
We also get routine memos warning us to stay on the line if we dial 911 by
accident as hang-ups will result in a call back from the dispatch center. I
assume they will dispatch campus security or local police if they are not
answered.
The main cause of 911 hang-ups is mis-dialed international and long
distance calls. However we have several thousand phone extensions and,
apparently, only a few hang-ups per year. Not "hundreds."
-Geoff
--
Remove "NOSPAM." from e-mail address to reply.
Internet Systems Developer / Administrator
<http://www.dartmouth.edu/~geoffb/>
Inducto
>I have no doubt that the 911 calls were a mistake. Probably people
>thought if you dialed the 9 first, you didn't need to dial the 0.
>Ridiculous that this was included in the article. The facts should be
>enough without all the biased speculation. I'm sorry, but I found the
>article inflammatory without much cause. The deaths that were normal,
>such as the guy drowning in the bay and the other one, not looking the
>proper way and being run over, shouldn't have been compared to the
>strange deaths. You shouldn't have to read these articles with a big
>bullshit detector.
I appreciate the attempt at perspective -- but, you "have no doubt"? Yes, I
doubt imprisoned scientologists are calling 911 in droves. Even if 99% of the
calls are in fact accidental, what about the other few? I'd say there's some
room for doubt there. The question is, did anyone say anything on those calls,
and does CoS have a system that would allow them to detect such calls and hang
them up before anything could be said?
When you think about it, it's almost too convenient that the FH has a phone
system that generates so many false 911 calls that they can dismiss them
all...and perhaps have an excuse to install a system that gives them some sort
of control over 911 calls.
Perhaps, ideally, there should have been more commentary along with the
presentation of deaths to put them in perspective. But adding commentary might
have been ruled out by fears that it would give grounds for a CoS lawsuit.
Likewise, doing anything more than just reporting all the scientologist deaths,
even omitting certain of the seemingly less relevant ones, might subject them
to charges of bias that could be the basis for legal action. So you could
argue that their reporting style is driven by fear of CoS lawsuits, and in fact
I think the only reason we are seeing more in the papers now about CoS is that
the media's lawyers have come up with some guidelines that they believe are so
legally defensible that they are likely to discourage even a harassing lawsuit.
And then again maybe there is some journalistic shortcoming -- but I really
think you have to give them some slack given the difficult situation they must
be working in, perhaps if nothing else all too much of their effort goes into
being sure that the story is legally defensible rather than ideal journalism.
And on top of it all the seemingly accidental deaths are at least marginally
relevant, they're certainly not played in a sensational light so that the
reader can make their own conclusions, and it raises the valid question of
whether scientologists are wandering around Clearwater in such wacked-out
states that they're unusually prone to running in front of a car.
I.
SIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIGSIG
Induct YourSELF into new realities
Avoid highwaymen on the road to personal and spiritual betterment -- beware
dead ends and unlit paths
solitaire
jbwebb wrote:
>
> I have no doubt that the 911 calls were a mistake. Probably people
> thought if you dialed the 9 first, you didn't need to dial the 0.
Bullshit. The 9 to get an outside line is an in-house function,
specific to the customer's (IE: the hotel's) system. By dialing 9, you
link into the external phone company system, and no in-house functions
would extend to anything in the external phone system. Therefore (and I
cannot believe that any European would NOT know this) it would STILL be
necessary to dial the 0 of the 011 international exchange.
So that one doesn't wash, dear. Even the cops would know that, or
should.
> Ridiculous that this was included in the article. The facts should be
> enough without all the biased speculation. I'm sorry, but I found the
> article inflammatory without much cause. The deaths that were normal,
> such as the guy drowning in the bay and the other one, not looking the
> proper way and being run over, shouldn't have been compared to the
> strange deaths. You shouldn't have to read these articles with a big
> bullshit detector.
>
> When I was in London, I had a very hard time remembering to look to my
> right, not left, when I crossed the street. One time, I almost got hit
> by a car.
>
> Take care
> Joni
--
solitaire
solitaire
NoScieno wrote:
> [tech stuff snipped for length]
> >Aren't 9-1-1 calls taped? If so, what, if anything, can be heard
> >regarding the call?
>
> before the dispatcher answers. Good 911 etiquette includes staying on the line
> if you dial 911 by mistake, and explaining calmly to the dispatcher that you
> have misdialed. If you hang up right away they are obligated to call you back
> to determine whether there is an emergency. If they get a busy signal they
> *must* send the police to make the determination. Having FLAG security treat
> the cops like intruders can't help the relationship.
No private security force can pull rank on local cops and PREVENT them
from investigating a call unless the cops themselves ALLOW it. The
officers I've known have all been very conscientious about their duties
and protective of their prerogatives, particularly when civilians
attempt to interfere in the performance of those duties/prerogatives.
I suspect they were instructed not to push the matter, by someone
higher-up in the force, and then ONLY because the city administration
insisted that it was wiser not to make waves with the Co$.
--
solitaire
solitaire
Inducto wrote:
>
> >I have no doubt that the 911 calls were a mistake. Probably people
> >thought if you dialed the 9 first, you didn't need to dial the 0.
> >enough without all the biased speculation. I'm sorry, but I found the
> >article inflammatory without much cause. The deaths that were normal,
> >such as the guy drowning in the bay and the other one, not looking the
> >proper way and being run over, shouldn't have been compared to the
> >strange deaths. You shouldn't have to read these articles with a big
> >bullshit detector.
>
> doubt imprisoned scientologists are calling 911 in droves. Even if 99% of the
> calls are in fact accidental, what about the other few? I'd say there's some
> room for doubt there. The question is, did anyone say anything on those calls,
> and does CoS have a system that would allow them to detect such calls and hang
> them up before anything could be said?
As a former telephone operator, I can answer that... only with one of
the old-fashioned plug boards, or with a system that allows an operator
to listen in as the caller dials the outside number, is this possible,
and in that case, they would probably know where the call went, and be
prepared to deal with the cops when they arrived. But the old plug
boards did not use the automatic code to get an outside line, it had to
be connected by the operator. So it has to be a newer phone system, but
it could still be done.
This presupposes that there is a reason to listen in on the outgoing
calls of any particular person. With a groups as paranoid as the Co$,
it's certainly not a bit surprise.
--
solitaire
solitaire
Martin Hunt wrote:
>
> In article <348B30...@execpc.com>, Unit 61 <zjohn...@execpc.com> wrote:
>
> >T. Devon Sharkey wrote:
>
> >> calls that come from rooms at the Fort Harrison Hotel. Police respond
> >> to each call only to be told most of the time by Scientology
> >> security guards that the call was a mistake. Police are not allowed
> >> to check individual rooms where the calls originated.
> >
> >I am a police officer and where I work these calls are checked
> >out until we are satisfied that there is no emergency.
> >I would want to speak in person to the person making the call
> >(or dialing by mistake) and would want to check out the location
> >that the call originated from. Anyone who would deny me investigating
> >any of this would likely be arrested for obstructing an officer.
>
> accident. The police checked thoroughly into the call before
> departing. Don't they do the same thing in Clearwater? Why
> the calls originated? Something's very fishy here.
"Allowed"? The police have a right to enter any premises in which they
believe someone to be injured or in danger. Period. Interference is
grounds for arrest.
They can CHOOSE not to investigate, if they are satisfied that the
situation is one where the call was a mistake, but failure to
investigate when they are not "allowed" to speak to the person who
dialed 911, by the interference of "security" personnel who were NOT the
dialing party, is simply dereliction of duty, and in this case,
bureaucratic cowardice, if the cops were instructed by their higher-ups
not to press their prerogatives.
>
> Can 911 calls be accessed through FOIA requests? Is there any
> way someone could talk with the 911 office in Clearwater and
> dig into this some more? I think Scientology's hiding something
> here. *Hundreds* of 911 calls coming out of Flag and *not one*
> is looked into?
>
> No, something's very wrong here. This needs to be looked into.
> Even if, as they say, a lot are mistakes (probably quite true),
> I suspect a few at least were legitimate calls from worried
> people being threatened to be put into isolation, wanting to
> get out, etc. Is there any way to see when the calls were made,
> at least? Was there a spike in the numbers at the time Lisa
> was dying? Maybe some staff *did* want to do something about
> it, but couldn't get their message out...
>
> --
> Cogito, ergo sum. FAQs: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
>
> "I don't 'think' anymore. I mean, it's actually an effort to go back
> down into that level again." - Success story from "P.S.", an OT V.
--
solitaire
Anonymous
[ Son of Xenu ] (Somebody's got to look afer Pop)
[ Mountain Interior ]
[ Las Palmas ] 8 Dec 1997
[ Teegeeack ]
A thought occurs to me - if you have to dial a '9' to get
an outside line at the Fort H., does anyone know if the emergency
number is '911' or '9911'.
I know at many locations where you have to dial 9 to get
an outside line you need to dial the extra 9 before 911 (and at
other locations its not necessary).
By the way, to those criticizing the police for not checking
up on the "person" making the 911 call, check the article again. It
just says they don't check the "room" where the call was made from.
I'm pretty certain that they would at least talk to the person
making the call. Lets not jump to unwarranted conclusions here.
But it does bring up an interesting point. How do the
police know that the person they are told made the call is actually
the person who DID make the call? The SO security could just grab
anyone and tell the police that they are the person who made the
call by mistake. The police have no way of knowing who is in what
room other than what the Scientologists tell them. Under those
circumstances it would seem reasonable for the CW police to change
their policy and demand to be shown to the room where the call was
made and to ascertain exactly who did make the call.
SON OF XENU (or XEMU - you decide)
OT I: OT havingness (spotting drills)
OT II: Implant incidents
OT III: You are covered with the spirits of others (BT's)
OT IV - VII: More ways of extracting BT's (and your money)
OT VIII: Check out those past lives - Are they real?
OT IX: We're all Gods - just some are bigger than others
NoScieno
In article <348ab4ce...@news.mindspring.com>, tde...@mindspring.com (T.
Devon Sharkey) writes:
(quoting SPT)
>Scientology officials say most of the calls are
>mistakes that occur when foreign visitors try to dial the
>international access code, 011, after dialing a 9 to get an outside
>line. They are working with police to resolve the problem, Fugate
>said.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
I wonder how often their visitors inadvertantly dial 900 sex/psychic lines.
>
>
>Do other places with foreign visitors have similar problems?
>
Good question. Part of the problem might have to do with what kind of phones
they use.
Take a deep breath. Older model touch-tone Bell phones use a complicated array
of mechanically linked reed contacts to produce the two-tone (DTMF) dialing
frequencies. Each key closes a different combination of two sets of contacts
when pressed. #s 1, 2, and 3 share a high-pitched tone, and #s 1, 4 , 7, and
"star" share a low-pitched tone for example. Thus 7 discrete sets of contacts
combine to produce 12 different DTMF tones. Newer phones have a much more
reliable system of "bubble/membrane/carbon button" type contacts (much like the
type used in computer keyboards) for each number, and the tones are generated
by closing a single set of contacts unique to each number (a chip generates the
tone). It's possible to tell which kind your phone has by the "feel." There's
a sort of long-travel spongy scrawnchy feel when dialing the older phones, as
opposed to a short "soft click" with the newer ones.
The common problem with the older phones is that the metal contacts tend to get
a tarnish film buildup, particularly the less they're used, and especially in a
humid salt-air environment such as Florida's. I have one of these fossils in
my garage, and it's a waste of time to even try dialing with it.
I'd elaborate but it doesn't seem possible. ;-) You understand that it is
possible to misdial with these older phones, and it's a safe bet that FLAG's
phones are not new. If the CWPD decides to start charging for false alarm
calls, they might consider replacing their phones but lacking an incentive they
won't.
>Does dialing 9-0-1-1 get you the emergency number?
Not likely with a good phone, but I think it's easily possible to double-strike
the "9" and altogether miss the "0" with a decrepit old one.
>
>Aren't 9-1-1 calls taped? If so, what, if anything, can be heard
>regarding the call?
They are taped. The location (number and address if avail.) is registered
before the dispatcher answers. Good 911 etiquette includes staying on the line
if you dial 911 by mistake, and explaining calmly to the dispatcher that you
have misdialed. If you hang up right away they are obligated to call you back
to determine whether there is an emergency. If they get a busy signal they
*must* send the police to make the determination. Having FLAG security treat
the cops like intruders can't help the relationship.
I'm a jack-of-all-trades, but a master of none.
-
NoScieno accepts NO mail (spam-bounce). Try "thynkr[AT]aol"
"Frankly, if you folks want to stick light bulbs in your mouths and form
devotional circles around life-sized statues of Uncle Fester it is fine with
me." - LilAlex to RonsAmigo, on a.r.s.
DeoMorto
Solitaire wrote>>No private security force can pull rank on local cops and
PREVENT them
from investigating a call unless the cops themselves ALLOW it. The
officers I've known have all been very conscientious about their duties
and protective of their prerogatives, particularly when civilians
attempt to interfere in the performance of those duties/prerogatives.<<
Its not that simple. A private security guard/service on a property has the
rights of the owner - unless the police have probable cause to investigate they
cannot ignore what the security guards are saying.
The Fort Harrison is not, per se, a "public" hotel, it is private property.
If someone from my house misdials 911 and the police come to my door and I
explain that it was a false alarm they do not have ANY right to come onto the
property unless they have good reason (one that will stand in a court of law)
to suspect I am lying and that there is a bona fide situation.
If the police go into the FH, overriding the wishes of the owners and they
find nothing then they will be in severe (and expensive) do-do.
Unit 61
I disagree. If I go to investigate a 911 hangup call made by a female
party, from a residence, and a male subject comes to the door and tells
me everything is alright and I do not need to come in the house I will
tell him that I want to speak with the person who called. If he refuses
to let me speak with the female party, he is placed in custody until I
can speak with the calling party and determine if a crime has been
committed,
or if there is an emergency. I have been in that exact situation a
number
of times were a crime has been committed and the person meeting me at
the door
gets arrested for a crime committed that cause someone to call 911.
Its no different at the Fort Harrison. In that situation the "security
people"
would be in the same position as the male person above. I will not take
the
word of someone else other than the person that initiated the call. And
I
would want to interview them in private, and in a safe place for them,
and
myself. I would not doubt that at the Fort Harrison the police would
have
a tough time with those people and may not ever get to speak with the
person
making the call. You would have to take the tactical unit along with
on
every call.
John
Hilary B Osborne
Anonymous (nob...@REPLAY.COM) wrote:
: [ Son of Xenu ] (Somebody's got to look afer Pop)
: [ Mountain Interior ]
: [ Las Palmas ] 8 Dec 1997
: [ Teegeeack ]
: A thought occurs to me - if you have to dial a '9' to get
: an outside line at the Fort H., does anyone know if the emergency
: number is '911' or '9911'.
My school requires a "*9" to be dialed to get an outside line.
Therefore, to call 911, I would actually need to dial "*9911". I would
think that since the system requires a "9" just to get an outside line,
a second 9 would be necessary.
I have never called 911, however, so I wouldn't know for sure. This is
a good question, though, and I will check with my school.
: I know at many locations where you have to dial 9 to get
: an outside line you need to dial the extra 9 before 911 (and at
: other locations its not necessary).
So which is the FH?
: By the way, to those criticizing the police for not checking
: up on the "person" making the 911 call, check the article again. It
: just says they don't check the "room" where the call was made from.
: I'm pretty certain that they would at least talk to the person
: making the call. Lets not jump to unwarranted conclusions here.
: But it does bring up an interesting point. How do the
: police know that the person they are told made the call is actually
: the person who DID make the call? The SO security could just grab
: anyone and tell the police that they are the person who made the
: call by mistake. The police have no way of knowing who is in what
: room other than what the Scientologists tell them. Under those
: circumstances it would seem reasonable for the CW police to change
: their policy and demand to be shown to the room where the call was
: made and to ascertain exactly who did make the call.
Unfortunately, $cns aren't averse to lying. No matter how much the cops
demanded to know exactly who placed the call, I wouldn't put it past
the clams to produce someone who "accidentally" dialed 911, while making
sure the actual caller is silenced. Short of tracing the call to the
exact phone used (if even possible), getting fingerprints, and tracking
down the right person, an well-told lie would not be caught. (There's
also voice-print matches with the 911 tape, but that only works if
anything was said).
: SON OF XENU (or XEMU - you decide)
: OT I: OT havingness (spotting drills)
: OT II: Implant incidents
: OT III: You are covered with the spirits of others (BT's)
: OT IV - VII: More ways of extracting BT's (and your money)
: OT VIII: Check out those past lives - Are they real?
: OT IX: We're all Gods - just some are bigger than others
Great--according to this, I'm an OTIX. I'm one of those big gods. :)
-HiLary, #193, SP1
"Fuck L. Ron Hubbard."
-Tool
jbwebb
solitaire wrote:
>
> jbwebb wrote:
> >
> > I have no doubt that the 911 calls were a mistake. Probably people
> > thought if you dialed the 9 first, you didn't need to dial the 0.
>
> specific to the customer's (IE: the hotel's) system. By dialing 9, you
> link into the external phone company system, and no in-house functions
> would extend to anything in the external phone system. Therefore (and I
> cannot believe that any European would NOT know this) it would STILL be
> necessary to dial the 0 of the 011 international exchange.
Yeah, rethinking this, if you dial 9, then 11, you would NOT get 911, you
would get a number starting with 11. Hadn't really thought this through
before. You're right, this explanation doesn't wash. Could be something
else. But on the other hand, if they were mistakes, the calls would have
just been a hang up. 911 operators have tapes of these calls, seems
the police could subpoena the records to see if they are just hang ups.
If they are just hang ups, then one would have to assume the majority of
them are errors, unless of course, some OSA agent was in the room and the
"guest" couldn't speak.
Anyway, I doubt that the majority (if not all) of the 911 calls were not
mistakes. There has to be an explanation.
Take care
Joni
Joey KAHN!
solitaire wrote:
> jbwebb wrote:
> >
> > I have no doubt that the 911 calls were a mistake. Probably people
> > thought if you dialed the 9 first, you didn't need to dial the 0.
>
>
Rewire the PBX's outgoing 911 calls to a master kill switch at an operators
desk; after a ring or two, 86 the connection...
Imagine, if you will, sitting in your hotel room, having a psychotic break,
and dialing 911 for help. You hear a remote ringing and know you can't be
crazy because BT's don't make ringing sounds. Another ring and then a
helpful, friendly voice reassures you, "Hello, 911 Emergency Services, may I
help you?". As suddenly as you realize "it's english, pure english, not
hubbareese", the line goes dead. You hang up the phone, click the receiver,
notice there's no dial tone, click it again, and realize you are indeed
having a break down. Soon, banging is heard on the front door and you're
certain it's not room service.
You have entered:
THE RPF ZONE
[insert 30 minute movie here]
Jack, our fictional "guest" at the Fort Harrison hotel didn't know that the
PBX system was rigged so certain dialed numbers were always channeled to a
red-flashing light at an OSA operators desk before continuing on to the
outside phone network. Under the light, a sign reads: "PANIC/KILL switch" --
that, when pressed, would disconnect the circuit and send OSA staff to
Jack's room, number 666, ... where he'd be escorted to.... The RPF Zone.
(And other OSA staff to the front door to make up an excuse for the police
officers' benefit....)
--
There are any number of technical ways to wire dialed numbers to specific
circuts (or something very similar) with any number of PBX systems: new or
old. And as far as legalities are concerned: well, no laws are broken becase
911 is technically available to rooms and it is technically called -- it's
just cut off after the first 2 seconds, looking exactly like a hang up.
For this reason, I would suspect that the 911 recordings were indeed
recordings of hang ups (it is not possible to imagine a police force that
would not fully investigate a recorded voice crying for help...)
I can not imagine an OSA existing that did not do something along this line.
I'd also be surprised if at-risk members even had working phones.
Did Lisa have a phone? If not, when was it removed or cut off? If removed or
cut off, why? -- and doesn't that indicate a sensitivity about phones? In
all these years, how was the FH PBX `modified' ?
Paranoid? Perhaps. Possible: I think so. Very easy to do and fits the mind
set.
Jeffrey L. Bell
David Lesher <wb8...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>This is possible. Euro-dialing is different. People screw up.
Indeed. I had a German roommate for a year who would call Germany
often. Every other month or so he would accidentally dial 911 in
stead of 011, and the emergency operator would call back. We got
charged a few bucks for each accidental call.
It might be interesting to check with other big hotels with an
international clientele to see if the number is unusually high.
-Jeff Bell
Ron Newman
In article <66n3fd$b2m$1...@news.eecs.umich.edu>, jlb...@presto.eecs.umich.edu
(Jeffrey L. Bell) wrote:
Anyone want to call the police department in Orlando to check
the number of accidental 911 calls from Disney-owned hotels?
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
Boudewijn van Ingen
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On 10 Dec 1997 22:01:17 GMT, jlb...@presto.eecs.umich.edu (Jeffrey L.
Bell) wrote:
>David Lesher <wb8...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>This is possible. Euro-dialing is different. People screw up.
>
>Indeed. I had a German roommate for a year who would call Germany
>often. Every other month or so he would accidentally dial 911 in
>stead of 011,
Did you -at your location- have to dial "011" to get an international
line? Why do you mention Germany here? Excuse my suspicions, one gets
paranoid from reading a.r.s...
To me it seems that if "011" gets you an international line, that
doesn't have anything to do with dialing a number in Germany. Do you
even know the international access number for Germany? (Hint: it's not
"1" or anything close.)
>and the emergency operator would call back. We got
>charged a few bucks for each accidental call.
And *everytime* the person that made the mistake hung up, without
explaining the situation?
>It might be interesting to check with other big hotels with an
>international clientele to see if the number is unusually high.
Let me tell you it is. Especially for a big hotel with an
international clientele.
>-Jeff Bell
Groeten,
Boudewijn.
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Ex Mudder
In article <19971209134...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
deom...@aol.com (DeoMorto) wrote:
>Solitaire wrote>>No private security force can pull rank on local cops and
>PREVENT them
>from investigating a call unless the cops themselves ALLOW it. The
>officers I've known have all been very conscientious about their duties
>and protective of their prerogatives, particularly when civilians
>attempt to interfere in the performance of those duties/prerogatives.<<
>
> Its not that simple. A private security guard/service on a property has the
>rights of the owner - unless the police have probable cause to investigate they
>cannot ignore what the security guards are saying.
> The Fort Harrison is not, per se, a "public" hotel, it is private property.
>If someone from my house misdials 911 and the police come to my door and I
>explain that it was a false alarm they do not have ANY right to come onto the
>property unless they have good reason (one that will stand in a court of law)
>to suspect I am lying and that there is a bona fide situation.
> If the police go into the FH, overriding the wishes of the owners and they
>find nothing then they will be in severe (and expensive) do-do.
Exingent circumstances. The cops would argue that they were acting
on a report of an emergency. I'm sure the clams would whine (which is
why they probably backed off) but it would be hard to nail them for
trespass. OTOH, it isn't enough evidence for them to place the dude
in custody.
Ron Newman
> >>This is possible. Euro-dialing is different. People screw up.
> >
> >Indeed. I had a German roommate for a year who would call Germany
> >often. Every other month or so he would accidentally dial 911 in
> >stead of 011,
>
> Did you -at your location- have to dial "011" to get an international
> line?
Yes. In the United States, you generally dial "011" before making
any international call. I can imagine foreign visitors slipping
up and dialing "911" by mistake instead.
> To me it seems that if "011" gets you an international line, that
> doesn't have anything to do with dialing a number in Germany. Do you
> even know the international access number for Germany? (Hint: it's not
> "1" or anything close.)
To dial Germany from the US, you'd start with 011-49- .
Jeffrey L. Bell
Boudewijn van Ingen <bo...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>Did you -at your location- have to dial "011" to get an international
>line?
Not necessarily.
For calls to Europe, yes.
To Canada and parts of the Carribean, no.
>Why do you mention Germany here?
I was trying to indicate that he made lots of calls that need 011.
>>and the emergency operator would call back. We got
>>charged a few bucks for each accidental call.
>
>And *everytime* the person that made the mistake hung up, without
>explaining the situation?
He said that he had to explain that everything was all right and
answer a bunch of questions. With his accent they probably took his
answers at face value. I got the impression that sometimes he got
part way through dailing, realized that he screwed up and hung up
hoping that it hadn't completed. He didn't elaborate as to whether he
stayed on the line other times.
-Jeff Bell
pbxtalk
I think I have the solution to the question of why so many 911 calls,
and it doesn't involve kill switches at the front desk or rigged
centrex's or confused Europeans or any of that.
As an experiment: Go pick up the phone and dial 991-1XXX (the last
three numbers really doesn't matter, just toss in any combination that
works). Now...did you check for dial tone first? You didn't? Not
suprising, really. In the old days, one would check for dial tone by
holding up the phone to their ear and listening first, to see if the
line was available and wasn't in use (remember party lines? I do...)
Nowadays, dial tone is just expected to be there. So many people have
gotten into the (bad, IMHO) habit of just picking up the phone in one
hand & pounding in the number with the other.
And 991 is a Tampa exchange in 813 area code.
Why did the Co$ come up with the "Befuddled Europeans" lie? <Shrug>
Maybe it's a habit, I don't know. Saying you were trying to dial 9011
and wound up dialing 9911 (which you would have to do, if you have to
dial 9 in order to get an outside line) doesn't make a lot of sense,
unless you have some very powerful finger thetans. IMHO I think the
above might be a better explanation.
Of course, they could be real, legitimate 911 distress calls. And why
they don't get charged for every one, I don't know. But that's for GTE
to figure out...I don't work for them, I don't speak for them...hell,
I'm in competition with 'em!
Hope that helps.
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