My response by Greg Beha
Behaser
Vince really tried to make me look like the bad guy; beside I didn't
see him or his show footing the bill for any part of the plane trip, 2
night stay at a motel, car rental, meals or the 2 days of work I was
going to miss.
It's easy to sit behind the computer and cut me down, that's OK.
But try walking in my shoes before pass judgment.
Let's see, I live in one of the poorest county in Ohio. I have a
mortgage, normal living expenses. I work two jobs plus I go to school
two nights a week to further my education. My wife works 2 jobs; we
usually work from sun-up to sun-down. I have a 16 year old
step-daughter, a 21 year old step-son that lives with us. My grandson
lives with me at least half the time. Plus we live with a drug problem
everyday of our lives. Then out of no-where I have this extra payment
of $450.00 a month (and you know what that was for). Just 3 or 4 days
ago I signed my step-son up for another drug rehab program.
So before you hit another keystroke, take a walk in my shoes.
Two of the many things my Dad taught me;
"Always turn a Negative into a Positive"
"Family First"
On another note:
Thanks for all the support in the last 6 months, and a special
thanks to the ones that I've had a personal contact with.
It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with me.
I love each and every one of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Greg Beha
vdanie...@yahoo.com
All of this dances around the fact that you knew about this settlement
several hours before you actually told me about it. I have a show to
run. When you called me and finally had the nerve to tell me what you
knew about for several hours, you did'nt as much as offer me any
alternative solution. The tone was one of a person who got what was
his, but did'nt care about anybody else. Those 6 to 10 extra hours
that you knew about this gag order would have bought me some needed
time to put a Plan B in place. Its funny that none of the other people
whose phone numbers and e-mail addresses you gave me for Saturday's
show have yet to call me back. They must be taking a cue from your
playbook. So before YOU strike another key, think about the fact that
all you're trying to do here is save face. You could have gone down
and been a hero, but you fell short. Gag orders are broken all the
time without any legal reprocussions. You must know this. But this
is fine. The show will go on tomorrow. What has transpired here over
the last several hours will very nicely make a good point to the
audience and fill an hour.
barbz
Greg, we understand your familial and financial concerns. I'm glad you
got a refund, I really am. If it came down to getting it with a gag
order or continuing on, very few people would take the latter route.
Don't feel guilty. You put out a lot of good information before you
settled. This should help others who are in the same boat, or
considering Narconon as a viable option for their loved ones.
You did what you could, and you stood up to Narconon in a way that not
many have. A lot of people would have jumped at the option to get half
their money back, with the conditions imposed.
But please tell me you're not going to start a blog praising Narconon!
--
"I'm for the separation of church and hate."
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC(wdne)
xenu...@netscape.net
Eldon
You're welcome.
>
> It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with me.
I don't agree or disagree. I told you to do what you felt best about
doing. Glad it worked out, actually. I don't blame you in the least.
Fred Durks
On Jan 26, 11:23 am, "Behaser" <gre...@frognet.net> wrote:
> My response by Greg Beha:
[snip]
You gave a great fight! Your story will be webbed and it will help to
open people's eyes about Narconon. You helped further expose their
scam.
In the end, you gotta do what's best for the family and your pockets.
If your goal was to get your full refund back, then you accomplished
your goal. Well done!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
WATCH - Scientology Deaths - The Jeremy Perkins story - on CBS 48 hours
http://www.scientomogy.com/jeremy_perkins.php
WATCH - 'The Bridge' - The movie the "church" of Scientology does not
want you to see
http://www.scientomogy.com/the_bridge.php
WATCH - The South Park Scientology episode - nominated for an Emmy
http://www.scientomogy.com/south_park_emmy.php
Services not rendered at Narconon - No refund to Greg Beha
http://www.scientomogy.com/narconon_scam.php
Tigger
Hi Greg,
Here is my response to this same post on OCMB
********************Hi Greg,
I understand exactly how you feel.
You have done a whole lot to expose SCN/Narconon at much emotional and
financial expsene to you and your family. And now you feel Mr. Daniels
is treating you unfairly.
But I also understand how Mr. Daniels feels. After all he has done to
help get your story out and get you your money back....sort of betrayed
I would imagine.
You shouldn't be blamed for feeling how you feel or accepting a
settlement with COS and Mr. Daniels shouldn't be blamed for how he
feels.
Right now it seems your and his feelings and perhaps misunderstanding
are getting in the way of turning a bad situation into something good.
COS/Narconon wants you two at each other's throats and to forget about
them.
I sincerely hope you and Mr. Daniels don't give COS/Narconon and the
Wickstroms what they want.....You by pissing Mr. Daniels off and Mr.
Daniels for being so pissed off he won't take the next step.....telling
what it took to get Narconon to refund your money.
Good Luck to you and your family in your continued efforts to get your
stepson off of drugs.
Tigger
*******************
I see Vince has replied to your a.r.s. post and IS
NOT going to let COS/Narconon win this one.
I hope you will do *what* you can to help him do that.
Best,
Tigger
Feisty
"Tigger" <Tiggeri...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1169838411.1...@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Is there any reason why you need to remind others to communicate together? I don't
understand why they need a go-between or understand the reason for your intrusion here.
They are adults I assume.
Maureen
>
> Best,
>
> Tigger
>
vdanie...@yahoo.com
of me through e-mail and I appreciate the kind words. Yes, I
certainly feel used and abused by the whole Greg Beha situation.
Anybody would. The message he sends is that its OK to be tough and 'in
your face' to Narconon ... as long as the momentum is with him. Being
tough and being outspoken is not something you decide to be when its
convenient. It's either who you are or not who you are. If it's who you
are, then you're that way all the time. This is like medical trioge
(sp?). There are ALWAYS going to be new victims and new wounded coming
in all the time that either need to be patched up or need attention.
Like a good surgeon, I admired how Mr. Beha cut through all the fluff
and showed his potential talent for excising a cancer. I'm just sorry
that he took off his medical coat and walked away from the operating
theater.
On Jan 26, 11:22 am, "Feisty" <s...@skytoday.com> wrote:
> "Tigger" <Tiggerinthe...@webtv.net> wrote in messagenews:1169838411.1...@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> > I hope you will do *what* you can to help him do that.Is there any reason why you need to remind others to communicate together? I don't
Mike Gormez
<1169833162....@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>:
>Greg,
>
>All of this dances around the fact that you knew about this settlement
>several hours before you actually told me about it. I have a show to
>run. When you called me and finally had the nerve to tell me what you
>knew about for several hours, you did'nt as much as offer me any
>alternative solution. The tone was one of a person who got what was
>his, but did'nt care about anybody else. Those 6 to 10 extra hours
>that you knew about this gag order would have bought me some needed
>time to put a Plan B in place. Its funny that none of the other people
>whose phone numbers and e-mail addresses you gave me for Saturday's
>show have yet to call me back. They must be taking a cue from your
>playbook. So before YOU strike another key, think about the fact that
>all you're trying to do here is save face. You could have gone down
>and been a hero, but you fell short.
I am sorry about the extra work that it has brought you and very much do wish Greg had
told you earlier. But seriously I wish Greg and his family all the best and frankly,
being a hero does not pay the bills. He has done his part, furthered the cause and now
feels it is the right moment to choose for his family. Can't fault him with that.
You played a part in it too because without you and the pressure of another damning radio
show he probably wouldn't have gotten what he got, so that is a sign of how much impact
you have. Not bad at all, to put it mildly.
> Gag orders are broken all the
>time without any legal reprocussions. You must know this.
On the otherhand Armstrong is being in and out of courts for the same reason, and Xemu
knows how many years already.
Anyways, good luck with the broadcast and I'll be listinging to the podcast again as I am
a subsriber of you ever since your first program on the cult. The only US radio show I
listen too.
--
Mike Gormez
- World Institute of Scientology Enterprises (WISE) - www.stop-wise.biz
- www.whyaretheydead.net - Why Are They Dead, Scientology?
- Child abuse and neglect by scientologists www.taxexemptchildabuse.net
- www.psychassualt.org - Scientology hatred of mental health (CCHR)
Dave Touretzky
<vdanie...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Like a good surgeon, I admired how Mr. Beha cut through all the fluff
>and showed his potential talent for excising a cancer. I'm just sorry
>that he took off his medical coat and walked away from the operating
>theater.
Greg has said all along that what he wanted was a full refund. And he
twisted Clark Carr's nuts until he got it. He's done. Good for him!
He was never trying to save the world. That's our job.
It's unfortunate that recent events caused a minor crisis in show
scheduling, Vince, but as an experienced radio guy, you know how
unrepdictable life can be.
The real danger in California right now is Narconon's attempt to open
a new facility in Leona Valley. They are pulling out all the stops:
private investigators, legal threats (courtesy of the infamous Madame
Helena Kobrin), harassment of a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER (I'll post
more about this later), plus the usual libel and defamation.
The next hearing on Narconon's conditional use permit for Leona Valley
is scheduled for April 4.
Help us kick their butts.
-- Dave Touretzky: "Stop Narconon; save the world."
http://Stop-Narconon.org
vdanie...@yahoo.com
peace, both to him and here in this open forum. As far as priorities
go, your point is ............? My priority at 3pm on a Thursday
afternoon is to make sure that my show gets on the air. At that point,
everything is in the can and I'm focusing on my website on Thursday
night and Production on Friday. Since this is virgin snow to you, you
wouldn't know what I'm talking about. Due respects to Dave Touretzky,
this has nothing to do with how I should "know better" since I'm an
experienced radio guy. If it were a couple of 10 or 15 minute segments
I had to salvage, that would be fine. But two hours? Since I'm
having my etiquette expert on the show this weekend, I'll bet you
dollars to donuts what her answer to this would be. In a situation
like this, if someone is going to call you and create this kind of
panic, proper etiquette would be to at least offer a solution or
alternative, not just the bad news that he can't come. How many times
over the years has a guest cancelled out but referred me to someone
else in the field that they know. At the very least, Greg could have
helped to brainstorm with me through thls. Yes, he never claimed to be
in this for the long haul, but at the same time, there is proper
protocol and manners and the right thing to do. By not helping me with
a PLAN B, he demonstrated that he really doesn't care about anyone else
but himself. If he at least got on the phone with me and said, "I've
got some bad news for you and I've got some good news for you, I feel
so bad I have to do this, but here's how I can help you since I'm
leaving you in the lurch" ... I would have more respect for him.
Perhaps my thinking is outdated, but that is how I was raised.
On Jan 26, 8:03 pm, alex <alexrsi...@notmail.comdamnspam> wrote:
> In article <1169833162.073073.21...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> vdaniels2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Greg,
>
> > All of this dances around the fact that you knew about this settlement
> > several hours before you actually told me about it. I have a show to
> > run. When you called me and finally had the nerve to tell me what you
> > knew about for several hours, you did'nt as much as offer me any
> > alternative solution. The tone was one of a person who got what was
> > his, but did'nt care about anybody else. Those 6 to 10 extra hours
> > that you knew about this gag order would have bought me some needed
> > time to put a Plan B in place. Its funny that none of the other people
> > whose phone numbers and e-mail addresses you gave me for Saturday's
> > show have yet to call me back. They must be taking a cue from your
> > playbook. So before YOU strike another key, think about the fact that
> > all you're trying to do here is save face. You could have gone down
> > and been a hero, but you fell short. Gag orders are broken all the
> > time without any legal reprocussions. You must know this. But this
> > is fine. The show will go on tomorrow. What has transpired here over
> > the last several hours will very nicely make a good point to the
> > audience and fill an hour.SO, basically you're pissed because the guy you were trying to help, got
> what he wanted and you may loose some money and audience?
>
> Which cause has a higher moral priority, he substantial financial loss
> and lack of help for his son, or your shows short term success?
>
> Cant you just feel good that you helped him pressure others in his cause?
>
> No. Now he's a villian for not telling you fast enough THAT HE WON.
>
> Hmmmm
>
> Priorities.....
>
> Hmmm
>
> alex
LaserClam
On Jan 26, 12:39 pm, vdaniels2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Greg,
>
> All of this dances around the fact that you knew about this settlement
> several hours before you actually told me about it. I have a show to
> run. When you called me and finally had the nerve to tell me what you
> knew about for several hours, you did'nt as much as offer me any
> alternative solution. The tone was one of a person who got what was
> his, but did'nt care about anybody else. Those 6 to 10 extra hours
> that you knew about this gag order would have bought me some needed
> time to put a Plan B in place. Its funny that none of the other people
> whose phone numbers and e-mail addresses you gave me for Saturday's
> show have yet to call me back. They must be taking a cue from your
> playbook. So before YOU strike another key, think about the fact that
> all you're trying to do here is save face. You could have gone down
> and been a hero, but you fell short. Gag orders are broken all the
> time without any legal reprocussions. You must know this. But this
> is fine. The show will go on tomorrow. What has transpired here over
> the last several hours will very nicely make a good point to the
> audience and fill an hour.
>
> On Jan 26, 9:23 am, "Behaser" <gre...@frognet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
Sounds like Greg is in the tone level of covert
hostility(1.1) where a being is afraid to be
angry and angry because he is afraid?
Fred Durks
On Jan 27, 1:59 am, "LaserClam" <LaserC...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jan 26, 12:39 pm, vdaniels2...@yahoo.com wrote:
-
>
> > On Jan 26, 9:23 am, "Behaser" <gre...@frognet.net> wrote: Sounds like Greg is in the tone level of covert
> hostility(1.1) where a being is afraid to be
> angry and angry because he is afraid?-
Laser Clam, what happens when you have to post more than one sentence?
Do you have to get permission from OSA?
John
"LaserClam" <Lase...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1169884787....@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
You're right, it might indeed sound like that if you had been indoctrinated
into the farcial psychological theories of a 50s sci-fi writer.
Eldon
On Jan 27, 6:39 am, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
> In article <1169841485.123746.46...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
>
> <vdaniels2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Like a good surgeon, I admired how Mr. Beha cut through all the fluff
> >and showed his potential talent for excising a cancer. I'm just sorry
> >that he took off his medical coat and walked away from the operating
> >theater.Greg has said all along that what he wanted was a full refund. And he
> twisted Clark Carr's nuts until he got it. He's done. Good for him!
>
> He was never trying to save the world. That's our job.
>
> It's unfortunate that recent events caused a minor crisis in show
> scheduling, Vince, but as an experienced radio guy, you know how
> unrepdictable life can be.
>
> The real danger in California right now is Narconon's attempt to open
> a new facility in Leona Valley. They are pulling out all the stops:
> private investigators, legal threats (courtesy of the infamous Madame
> Helena Kobrin), harassment of a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER (I'll post
> more about this later), plus the usual libel and defamation.
>
> The next hearing on Narconon's conditional use permit for Leona Valley
> is scheduled for April 4.
Yeah, they are getting desperate, and the sad thing about it is that,
inside their Truman Show bubble, they think they are somehow doing
"the right thing" by peddling Hubbard's nonsensical sauna/niacin
therapy to the public.
And those assholes at Stone Hawk dare to pay themselves more than
$300K EACH to run a "non-profit" organization? Well, OT levels do cost
a lot, but then again....
Their hypocrisy knows no bounds, as recently shown by the totally
undercover op at the San Francisco New Life Center detected by Barbz's
sensitive radar. Not even a single goddamn clue that it's Narconon or
Scientology or based on the bullshit quackery of L. Ron Hubbard. Now
the spineless assholes will even go so far as to disclaim any
connection to their Founder & Source in order to "make things go
right."
The point of critical mass is rapidly approaching; let's keep up the
momentum! ;-)
banchukita
On Jan 27, 2:25 am, vdaniels2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I don't remember villifying Mr. Beha alex. I remember speaking my
> peace, both to him and here in this open forum. As far as priorities
> go, your point is ............? My priority at 3pm on a Thursday
> afternoon is to make sure that my show gets on the air. At that point,
> everything is in the can and I'm focusing on my website on Thursday
> night and Production on Friday. Since this is virgin snow to you, you
> wouldn't know what I'm talking about. Due respects to Dave Touretzky,
> this has nothing to do with how I should "know better" since I'm an
> experienced radio guy. If it were a couple of 10 or 15 minute segments
> I had to salvage, that would be fine. But two hours? Since I'm
> having my etiquette expert on the show this weekend, I'll bet you
> dollars to donuts what her answer to this would be. In a situation
> like this, if someone is going to call you and create this kind of
> panic, proper etiquette would be to at least offer a solution or
> alternative, not just the bad news that he can't come.
I do hope you ask your etiquette person this.
Vince, I did a radio show for over a decade. I was also a radio
executive for about five years. The station where I worked had --and
still has -- live DJ programmers 24/7, with daily call-in shows.
It is not the responsibility of your guest to put himself in your
production shoes, especially when
a) he's not in the business, and
b) he's got his hands a little full with getting his stepson some
professional help.
OTOH, it *is* your responsibility to have a backup lined up. What if,
by some odd chance, Mr. Beha had planned to arrive at the station, but
got lost, or pulled over for speeding, or in a car accident? What was
your backup for that situation?
You had told your audience you'd be talking about Scientology and
Narconon. What about them? There are so many angles, so many people
right here who would have been willing to do last-minute phoners that
the most time lost would have been choosing what aspect of Scn, Inc.
to address.
I also must respectfully disagree with you that people disobey gag
orders 'all the time.' Ask Gerry Armstrong about that.
That would be worth at least two hours right there. Caroline would
also be a good interview.
If you're mad at anyone, be mad at Scn, Inc. for creating a difficult
situation for Mr. Beha, and passing on the difficulties to you. I
think it was a great deal because of the pressure you created on Clark
Carr, etc., that they finally reached a deal that Mr. Beha seems to be
able to live with. Wasn't that the goal all along?
-maggie, human being
> > > > Greg Beha- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
Saucy111
On Jan 27, 2:25 am, vdaniels2...@yahoo.com wrote:
You know, it seems like you're upset because you had to do your job.
YOUR job. You know, the reason YOU get paid? That thing YOU do every
day that is YOUR responsibility? You were unprepared for any changes
that might have occured due to accident or illness, and are now
attempting to blame Mr. Beha because YOU were unprepared.
Shame on you.
Muldoon
"Saucy111": Save the self-righteous blather for another time.
Tigger Tigger
wasn't just a simple case of reprogramming. It also wasn't a case of
plane delays, car crashes, whateveer.
Mr. Daniels accepted Mr. Beha's word and trusted that he would be there.
And we all know the word of Clark Carr and other Ronbots can't be
trusted and that they will cancel at the last minute so that argument
doesn't float either.
How much media.....how many officials, etc. did ANYTHING to help Mr.
Beha get his money back AND spread warnings about NarCOnon?
You don't bite the hand that did what NO OTHERS were willing to do. The
least Mr. Beha could have done was warn Mr. Daniels what was happening
or might happen with Narconon and help him find replacements for him and
apparently the others he had offered, who would not even return Mr.
Daniels' phone calls.
It was not a coincidence that COS picked this time to make a deal with
Mr. Beha.
Does anyone believe that COS would have refunded all the money (or more)
which apparently COS did one or the other) if Vince Daniels had not put
himself and his radio program on the line for Mr. Beha, other Narconon
victims and potential Narconon victims?
IMO Mr. Daniels has a right to feel used and abused.
And hey he's got a radio show to do today.....so please stop following
in the footprints of Alex, the Scientologist, who is trying to make this
program crash and burn.
I sincerely hope anyone who can, will call in and help Vince do the job
Mr. Beha was supposed to do.
Tigger
Zinj
Tiggeri...@webtv.net says...
<snip>
> I sincerely hope anyone who can, will call in and help Vince do the job
> Mr. Beha was supposed to do.
>
> Tigger
Where did this 'supposed to' come from sillywoman?
Zinj
--
You Can Lead a Clam to Reason; but You Can't Make Him Think
Ball of Fluff
On Jan 26, 9:23 am, "Behaser" <gre...@frognet.net> wrote:
I am glad you got a refund. I think it sucks the way CofS treated your
family.
They are a sale oriented organization and a cult. They never like to
cough up money- even when they should.
They lie and cheat.
It appears that you did what you thought was right. Your family is
more important than what anyone else thinks you should do.
Warmly,
Claire Swazey
Ball of Fluff
On Jan 26, 9:39 am, vdaniels2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Greg,
>
> All of this dances around the fact that you knew about this settlement
> several hours before you actually told me about it. I have a show to
> run. When you called me and finally had the nerve to tell me what you
> knew about for several hours, you did'nt as much as offer me any
> alternative solution. The tone was one of a person who got what was
> his, but did'nt care about anybody else. Those 6 to 10 extra hours
> that you knew about this gag order would have bought me some needed
> time to put a Plan B in place. Its funny that none of the other people
> whose phone numbers and e-mail addresses you gave me for Saturday's
> show have yet to call me back. They must be taking a cue from your
> playbook. So before YOU strike another key, think about the fact that
> all you're trying to do here is save face. You could have gone down
> and been a hero, but you fell short. Gag orders are broken all the
> time without any legal reprocussions. You must know this.
If you are suggesting that he should have considered breaking the gag
order, you're on thin ice. You can't make that call for someone else.
Particularly a gag order arranged with/by one of the most vengeful
cults in the world.
C
Ball of Fluff
On Jan 26, 11:22 am, "Feisty" <s...@skytoday.com> wrote:
> "Tigger" <Tiggerinthe...@webtv.net> wrote in messagenews:1169838411.1...@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> > I hope you will do *what* you can to help him do that.Is there any reason why you need to remind others to communicate together? I don't
> understand why they need a go-between or understand the reason for your intrusion here.
The fact that they are both talking about it on a.r.s. might have
something to do with a reader getting the impression that they "need a
go between". (rolling eyes)
I suggest that you are just indulging an anti Tigger bias and that had
anyone else written that, that your response would have either not
been posted or would have been substantially differe.t
C
Ball of Fluff
On Jan 26, 11:58 am, vdaniels2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Its okay, Maureen I don't mind at all. Tigger has been very supportive
> of me through e-mail and I appreciate the kind words.
Right. And she is responding to posts on a public forum. How that gets
twisted into "intrusion" is and always will be one of life's great
mysteries to me.
C
Ball of Fluff
Feisty
"Ball of Fluff" <amaflu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169931868.5...@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Thanks, Tigger!
Responding with advice, yeah, happens all the time.
Encouraging other people to talk, is a helpful way to procure information. Where answers
are demanded.
It is a public forum, right, so I guess you can't make that call for someone else.
Maureen
>
> C
>
> www.claireswazey.com
>
Feisty
<vdanie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169841485....@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> Its okay, Maureen I don't mind at all. Tigger has been very supportive
> of me through e-mail and I appreciate the kind words. Yes, I
> certainly feel used and abused by the whole Greg Beha situation.
> Anybody would. The message he sends is that its OK to be tough and 'in
> your face' to Narconon ... as long as the momentum is with him. Being
> tough and being outspoken is not something you decide to be when its
> convenient. It's either who you are or not who you are. If it's who you
> are, then you're that way all the time. This is like medical trioge
> (sp?). There are ALWAYS going to be new victims and new wounded coming
> in all the time that either need to be patched up or need attention.
> Like a good surgeon, I admired how Mr. Beha cut through all the fluff
> and showed his potential talent for excising a cancer. I'm just sorry
> that he took off his medical coat and walked away from the operating
> theater.
Understand. And it's not's that I do, or do not wish to encourage dialogue. We all want to
see justice here.
Where the cult is concerned, and as a public figure, you have lots of people to
communicate with.
When things happen suddenly, and there are certainly well meaning people out there that
want to help, also remember that $cientology declares a target and must "handle" all lines
of communcation to that person.
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/confusion-technique.htm
I'm not saying that Tigger was doing anything like this, but this is a cult that has
written orders on paper, and maybe it is parallel, that in that communicating with many
different people, things suddenly get mixed up and then whole new stories appear. People
communicate many things, and it is in this essense that $cientology follows along. You
would be confused as to how all f this changed so rapidly. Maybe it was a time to explore
some of the reasons why all of a sudden, something that appeared to be happening, fell
apart.
The point is, it doesn't matter who calls, writes or helps, it matters how much
information -you- give.
That's all.
The show was great today - the most was made out of yesterdays situation. Thanks for your
hosting and contributing to this cause. Much useful information was shared.
I've picketed before in Leona Valley with some of the residents and other activists,
because this issue touches every citizen. This is a program they push through political
officials, sheriff's and anyone who they can get to make a decision for, ("opinion
leaders") on behalf of other people. And, it's duplicitous, because a Narconon here means
a different detox here. The dangerous service that Mr. Beha and others receive is used to
push another detox somewhere.
Maureen
Tilman Hausherr
wrote:
>I also must respectfully disagree with you that people disobey gag
>orders 'all the time.' Ask Gerry Armstrong about that.
Vince mentioned the Catholic Church, ´who settled with a guy, who then
immediately broke the silence agreement. However there is a basic
difference: the Catholic Church is basically good (even if it has bad
apples), while scientology is basically evil and very experienced in
doing evil things.
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5.55] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainment
http://www.xenu.de
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html
The Xenu bookstore: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/bookstore.html
K Palmer
> On 27 Jan 2007 05:06:59 -0800, "banchukita" <banch...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I also must respectfully disagree with you that people disobey gag
>> orders 'all the time.' Ask Gerry Armstrong about that.
>
> Vince mentioned the Catholic Church, ´who settled with a guy, who then
> immediately broke the silence agreement. However there is a basic
> difference: the Catholic Church is basically good (even if it has bad
> apples), while scientology is basically evil and very experienced in
> doing evil things.
>
> Tilman
>
>
>
the way the cult handles gag orders was discussed today on Vince Daniels
show = talked about Gerry Armstrong and how his case has gone on and on.
I don't think Vince Daniels understood how completely evil cult ops can
be and how hard it is to fight against or how long and how hard they are
willing to put their lawyers to work to shudder people into silence.
There was a very pregnant pause when this topic came up and Daniels
began to realize the magnitude of what the cult is capable of.
Hope he does more shows on this and shows the lying thieving bastards
for what they really are.
Kim P
Gerry Armstrong
wrote:
>Tilman Hausherr wrote:
>> On 27 Jan 2007 05:06:59 -0800, "banchukita" <banch...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I also must respectfully disagree with you that people disobey gag
>>> orders 'all the time.' Ask Gerry Armstrong about that.
>>
>> Vince mentioned the Catholic Church, ´who settled with a guy, who then
>> immediately broke the silence agreement. However there is a basic
>> difference: the Catholic Church is basically good (even if it has bad
>> apples), while scientology is basically evil and very experienced in
>> doing evil things.
>>
>> Tilman
>>
>>
>>
>
>the way the cult handles gag orders was discussed today on Vince Daniels
>show = talked about Gerry Armstrong and how his case has gone on and on.
Thanks. I look forward to listening to the show.
>
>I don't think Vince Daniels understood how completely evil cult ops can
>be and how hard it is to fight against or how long and how hard they are
>willing to put their lawyers to work to shudder people into silence.
>
>There was a very pregnant pause when this topic came up and Daniels
>began to realize the magnitude of what the cult is capable of.
>
>Hope he does more shows on this and shows the lying thieving bastards
>for what they really are.
>
>Kim P
© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
banchukita
On Jan 27, 6:13 pm, Tilman Hausherr <tilman-use...@snafu.de> wrote:
> On 27 Jan 2007 05:06:59 -0800, "banchukita" <banchuk...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I also must respectfully disagree with you that people disobey gag
> >orders 'all the time.' Ask Gerry Armstrong about that.Vince mentioned the Catholic Church, ´who settled with a guy, who then
> immediately broke the silence agreement. However there is a basic
> difference: the Catholic Church is basically good (even if it has bad
> apples), while scientology is basically evil and very experienced in
> doing evil things.
Shutting people up by any means necessary is written policy to be
followed by staff of Scn, Inc.
-maggie, human being
>
> Tilman
>
> --
> Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5.55] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainmenthttp://www.xenu.de
realpch
You betcha. People with families have hostages to fortune, and they
might now want to endanger their well being.
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
Ball of Fluff
"Feisty" <su...@skytoday.com> wrote in message
news:uZPuh.56360$wc5....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Ball of Fluff" <amaflu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1169931868.5...@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> On Jan 26, 11:58 am, vdaniels2...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> Its okay, Maureen I don't mind at all. Tigger has been very supportive
>>> of me through e-mail and I appreciate the kind words.
>>
>> Right. And she is responding to posts on a public forum. How that gets
>> twisted into "intrusion" is and always will be one of life's great
>> mysteries to me.
>
> Thanks, Tigger!
I am not Tigger.
>
> Responding with advice, yeah, happens all the time.
>
> Encouraging other people to talk, is a helpful way to procure information.
> Where answers are demanded.
>
> It is a public forum, right, so I guess you can't make that call for
> someone else.
I can respond to ridiculous accusatory posts, though.
Which is exactly what I did.
c
Feisty
As explained in another reply to Vince, it is within these same sorts of interpersonal
communciations that would be similar to the way $cientology gathers information. To
encourage two people to talk about something, especially to prevent a Narconon gaggle of
gags, is fine. But it is within the same sort of appeals and requests -where people talk,
that additional information is garnered. Do you see that potential?
And because $cientology uses psychological warfare tactics, and does not have any physical
place to send people to take over the media, to persuade people, gather information, how
would one do that on the Internet?
Would they closely 'type' or 'be interested' as normal sounding and articulate people,
being normal everyday activists, as well?
Hubbard devised a communication system that is covert and subversive. It is in this
interest that an explanation of how these dictates can play - on the contrary - to
neutralize defectors and opponents. Hubbard did, under the name of $cientology write the
Brainwashing Manual. It was not my intention to use or disrespect Tigger, but more wanting
to point out something that I feel is important to recognize in the way that targets can
be exploited.
Even the military teaches recruits to identify psychological warfare, and become aware of
it. The Internet is a great place to come and share that information, but it also has, to
the contrary, a cult who is desperate to thwart and obstruct justice.
If you don't think that helping immunize others about Hubbard's war games, psychological
warfare, and the barrage of tactics involved in coervice persuasion, then maybe seeing
people gagged, silenced and quiet has no reference at all to the communication skills that
Hubbard teaches to members everyday.
Maureen
>
> C
>
> www.claireswazey.com
>
Tigger
Oh give it a rest, Feisty.
It was pretty obvious that you have fallen for Lerma's BS about me.
And now you are trying to backpedal your way out of it.
If you wanted to warn Mr. Daniels about OSA gathering
information....whatever, you didn't have to bring me into it
because I AM NOT OSA AND I WAS NOT GATHERING INFORMATION.
Tigger
>
>
> Maureen
> >
> > C
> >
> > www.claireswazey.com
> >
Feisty
"Tigger" <Tiggeri...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1170028249.8...@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
"Prejudices are what fools use for reason." Voltaire
>
> And now you are trying to backpedal your way out of it.
>
> If you wanted to warn Mr. Daniels about OSA gathering
> information....whatever, you didn't have to bring me into it
> because I AM NOT OSA AND I WAS NOT GATHERING INFORMATION.
"I understand exactly how you feel.
you feel Mr. Daniels is treating you unfairly.
But I also understand how Mr. Daniels feels.
....sort of betrayed I would imagine.
COS/Narconon wants you two at each other's throats and to forget about them.
You shouldn't
Mr. Daniels shouldn't
your and his feelings
COS/Narconon wants you two at each other's throats and to forget about them.
You by pissing Mr. Daniels off and
Mr.Daniels for being so pissed
COS/Narconon wants you two at each other's throats and to forget about them.
I see Vince has replied to your a.r.s. post and IS NOT going to let COS/Narconon win this
one.
I hope you will do *what* you can to help him do that.
COS/Narconon wants you two at each other's throats and to forget about them."
"Prejudices are what fools use for reason." Voltaire
Maureen
>
> Tigger
>
>>
>>
>> Maureen
>> >
>> > C
>> >
>> > www.claireswazey.com
>> >
>
Tigger
LOL Feisty, you are morphing into Arnie Lerma.
Let it go. You're just digging that hole you're in deeper and deeper.
Tigger
Eldon
> > understand why they need a go-between or understand the reason for your intrusion here.The fact that they are both talking about it on a.r.s. might have
> something to do with a reader getting the impression that they "need a
> go between". (rolling eyes)
I don't even think it amounts to having a go-between, but certainly
getting some commentary from various perspectives has probably given
both parties some food for thought. And Vince produced a show that is
arguably just as effective or more so than if things had gone as
planned.
The outcome was an unhappy ending for Narconon, wasn't it?
barbz
completely missed the point of this post.
Now, try to comprehend this Tigger. Read slowly if that helps.
"COS/Narconon wants you two at each other's throats and to forget about
them."
--
--
Spidergraham
Chaplain, ARSCC
xenu...@netscape.net
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
Tigger
I don't think so. What do you think the point of "this post" was?
>
> Now, try to comprehend this Tigger. Read slowly if that helps.
>
> "COS/Narconon wants you two at each other's throats and to forget about
> them."
I don't need to read it slowly. I wrote it some days ago before the
Vince Daniels show. It was one of my statements that got Feisty at MY
throat
which I ignored.
Ever since then she has been trying to backpedal her way out of the
hole she dug. I ignored her for awhile but she wouldn't let it go.
Lerma has posted and webbed a lot of bullshit about me and other
people including Ball of Fluff, Patricia Greenway and Ken Dandar.
Feisty is a "good friend" of Lerma. What she insinuated in her attack
on me is similar to the BS Lerma has been sprreading about me since
2001.
Lerma, instead of coming straight out and saying what he means, CCP's
stuff
to insinuate and attack people who disagree with him, which it appears
Feesity did in her last last......hence
my statement that she is morphing into Arnie Lerma.
Tigger
Eldon
On Jan 29, 4:19 pm, barbz <xenub...@netscape.net> wrote:
> Tigger wrote:
>
> > Feisty wrote:
> >> "Tigger" <Tiggerinthe...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> >>news:1170028249.8...@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> Feisty wrote:
> >>>> "Ball of Fluff" <amafluffyg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > TiggerApparently, you're so wrapped up in your hatred of Arnie that you
> completely missed the point of this post.
>
> Now, try to comprehend this Tigger. Read slowly if that helps.
About all Shirley can comprehend at the utmost is the use of nit-
picking, ad hominem attacks delivered with the assertive imposture of
a five-year-old brat holding forth in the sandbox of a kindergarten
playground.
Her hatred of Arnie is only a symptom.
>
> "COS/Narconon wants you two at each other's throats and to forget about
> them."
>
> --
> --
> Spidergraham
> Chaplain, ARSCC
Ball of Fluff
She ~responds~ to many "nit picking ad hominem attacks", yes.
>
> Her hatred of Arnie is only a symptom.
She doesn't like the way he treats her and certain others.
C
Tigger
For someone who is supposedly intelligent, you are sometimes extremely
stupid, Mr. holier-than-shit Eldon.
Tigger
Eldon
> > Her hatred of Arnie is only a symptom.For someone who is supposedly intelligent, you are sometimes extremely
> stupid, Mr. holier-than-shit Eldon.
I didn't think IQ levels were a topic of discussion, but if you want
to compare scores I guess we could. However, I don't know much about
the Holier-than-Shit test. What are the criteria and the base line
median score on that one?
How about a projection test? That might be fun.
Feisty
I do not understand your frame of mind, eg. "being like someone else." $cientology does
that to people, creates groupthink that is narrow - yet by very sophisticated and clever
means. As an example, think about wiretapping, or other forms of surveillance. $cientology
gathers information. But how do you make information avalable without revealing your
means - how does it come to life?
They have to create a "story."
Like the Parade magazine poll, a few computers generated thousands of votes in Tom Cruises
favor. That's a numbers story.
With people, some stories are negative, fearing, and are to make anyone want to create
distance, or to destroy credibility of one of their targets. Separately, or in tandem with
this, can be very friendly people who gather to talk about those negative people. Just
think how effective this could be in gathering information. Who doesn't want to talk about
people? You can't stop people from talking, but you can try to understand and become
smarter to learn how things go awry in places you would never think, as in exchange on a
computer.
But the main point, is behind all of this are computers and people. If you gravitate
towards more people talk and are curious and helpful, or even on the sarcastic side and
helpful, there are the same in body-snatching clones out there too. Not to be discouraged,
I'm not making you into OSA Tigger. In any community, protective measures are a positive.
I chose to talk about interpersonal communication and how it may play out in the field of
$cientology ops.
And, it doesn't matter if anyone is OSA or not, it depends on how much information you
give. What you choose to "think" is up to you.
Here is a quote about $cientology and the computer network. (Research would be a breeze
with this "OT computer" wouldn't it?)
"Give an executive a few investigations and evaluations and these whole track computer
operations and the computers and programs and let him use them to apply $cientology and
the potential there is to send stats out through the top of the solar system. And on a
planet in the shape this one is in, there is no time to lose in doing so. Getting a real
computer network factual and functioning is about the same order of importance and
magnitude as sending for a fire truck!"
INCOMM is depended on and is there to get the job done.
-3-
HC PL 23.11.85
http://www.xenu.net/archive/greece/
a.. The INCOMM Network
Scientology's International Network of Computer Organized ManageMent. The documents from
HCOPL 23 November 1985 in Computer Series 6 present the purpose and product of INCOMM:
"enforce the standard application of Scientology Policy and Technology" ... "It polices
and cross checks incoming data and isolates false data and false stats and corrects. In
the sector of Organization it says: "As a Sea Org unit INCOMM is subject to and operates
on Sea Org policy as found in Flag Orders, Central Bureaux Orders, etc. as well as OEC
policy. It is part of Church of Scientology International. There are representatives of
INCOMM posted outside its central headquarters ... to police in standard, on-policy use of
the computer system.
Maureen
>
> Tigger
>
Out_Of_The_Dark
Hey Greg, now that the dust has settled some, and Vince was able to
get a better picture of just how manipulative COS /Narconon can be,
so many good things came out of all this, including a victory on
getting that hard fought refund and the fact that Vince managed to put
on a terrfic show in spite narconon 's attempts to sabotage that. I
know you can't talk about here but I want to thank you fr all you have
done and all that Vince has done to help you and help alert the public
to the depraved steps they take against any of their 'clients' who
just happen to not like L.Ron Hubbard.
Thanks for you for the acknowledgement email and thanks for helping to
make a difference, despite the opposition.
~Mary
Out_Of_The_Dark