Need Evaluation of German Translation
Searles O'Dubhain
are Celtic Reconstructionists) have debunked or attacked Steven Akins'
German copies over on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Druid#.22The_Lebor_Feasa_Runda.22
I'm wondering if their evaluation is correct or not regarding whether
the German pages offered are a machine translation of some original
English or not?
Some of the people posting there on the subject are people that I know
to either purposeluy distort what others are saying or they are so
biased in regard to their own opinions as to not see that they are so
doing. In short, it would go a long way toward ascertaining if the
Lebor Feasa Rúnda is "made up" or not to know that the German pages
offered are made up.
I'd really love to hear from people who have a native grasp of German
for an answer to the controversy.
Searles O'Dubhain
Akins of that Ilk
Searles,
You might try posting over on one of the German culture
newsgroups, as you would be more likely to find somone unbiased over
there than in one of the Druid or Pagan newsgroups.
You know, I never imagined when I published this book, that it would
elicit such paranoia and suspicion. It is ironic that the very group
of people that the Lebor Feasa Runda should appeal to, are the very
ones dead set on rejecting it, without so much as giving it a read. It
saddens me that those who claim an interest in Druidism are satisfied
to have nothing more than their own modern. made-up substitute for
what Druidism was, to the extent that they are unwilling to the point
of refusal to consider a source that might well serve as a key to
unlocking the door to the mystery of what Druidism truly was. A prime
example of being unable to see the forest for the trees.
Kent
wrote:
> You know, I never imagined when I published this book, that it would
> elicit such paranoia and suspicion. It is ironic that the very group
> of people that the Lebor Feasa Runda should appeal to, are the very
> ones dead set on rejecting it, without so much as giving it a read. It
> saddens me that those who claim an interest in Druidism are satisfied
> to have nothing more than their own modern. made-up substitute for
> what Druidism was, to the extent that they are unwilling to the point
> of refusal to consider a source that might well serve as a key to
> unlocking the door to the mystery of what Druidism truly was. A prime
> example of being unable to see the forest for the trees.
You answer your own question and don't even realize it.
You use the word "was".
Okay, let's assume (from my standpoint, that is) that the LFR is
genuine. Let's also assume that it had somehow managed to stay in
circulation over the past 1500 years. Do you really think that its
ideas and practices would have went unchanged as society and culture
changed, adapted, and grew over those 1500 years? Do you honestly
believe that those words would hold the exact same meanings to the
practitioners in the 21st century as they did in the 6th?
Akins of that Ilk
I can think of other example where religious scriptures of equal
antiquity still hold meaning for their religious followings centuries
after they were written - the Torah, the Quran, the Vedas, all still
serve as the primary scriptural texts for those who follow the
respective faiths to which they belong. I don't think Celtic
spirituality needs a modern-day makeover. Perhaps those who do might
feel more at home following Scientology.
Akins of that Ilk
> On Sep 13, 12:43 pm, Kent <kent...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You answer your own question and don't even realize it.
>
> > You use the word "was".
>
> > Okay, let's assume (from my standpoint, that is) that the LFR is
> > genuine. Let's also assume that it had somehow managed to stay in
> > circulation over the past 1500 years. Do you really think that its
> > ideas and practices would have went unchanged as society and culture
> > changed, adapted, and grew over those 1500 years? Do you honestly
> > believe that those words would hold the exact same meanings to the
> > practitioners in the 21st century as they did in the 6th?
Then OTOH you have what can only be described as modern or recently
developed religions like Mormonism, Wicca, Satanism, etc., whose
scriptures are of far more recent lineage. Even so, the important
thing is that those scriptures exist, to define what their faith
represents. Druidism was never intended to be an undefined spiritual
path of ambiguity; even though many modern so-called "Druids" seem to
have no problem with it being just that - even though equating such a
state of chaotic nothingness with Druidism is an insult to the
religion and cultural heritage of the people that the faith properly
belongs to.
1X2Willows
> It seems that some folks that I don't like very much (but who say they
> are Celtic Reconstructionists) have debunked or attacked Steven Akins'
> German copies over on Wikipedia:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Druid#.22The_Lebor_Feasa_Runda.22
>
> I'm wondering if their evaluation is correct or not regarding whether
> the German pages offered are a machine translation of some original
> English or not?
>
> Some of the people posting there on the subject are people that I know
> to either purposeluy distort what others are saying or they are so
> biased in regard to their own opinions as to not see that they are so
> doing. In short, it would go a long way toward ascertaining if the
> offered are made up.
>
> I'd really love to hear from people who have a native grasp of German
> for an answer to the controversy.
>
> Searles O'Dubhain
G'day to you Searles
If you mean those three lines _English "translation"_, _German "original"_
and _actual grammatical German translation of the English_ I'm going
to have to say Yes, they're absolutely right whoever they are. Can't find
a single "but...!" in there myself and you should know how anal I am
about these things.
Someone then goes on to say "I don't know what translaton software
would come up with betr�chtlich ("considerable") for vast, but that is
already a marginal concern at this point." which is correct as well.
"betr�chtlich" for "vast" would work for a sentence like "He won a vast
amount of money at Black Jack" but pertaining to Leere (emptiness),
usage of the word in this context is about as comical as saying
"My girlfriend is not only a little, but considerably pregnant" :)
I've also read up on the Mystic Wicks discussion from last Nov. to Jan.
in the mean time and happened upon the JPG of this alleged sketch by
the German soldier which you host on the Summerlands server at
http://www.summerlands.com/images/Nuada%20Ogham%20Talisman.jpg
Sorry to say the handwritten German on there is a train wreck of the same
magnitute like all the other and quite extensive passages Mr. Akins has
'kindly offered' so far.
Let's also put this specific text under the shining light of An Fhirinne :
(i.e. with a magnifying factor surpassing every electron-microscope ;)
DAS FORMULAR DES TALISMANS
VON NUADA, DAS AUF EINER PLATTE
DES EISENS GRAVIERT WIRD
What strikes me as totally odd right off the bat: This sentence is
composed in future tense. "das ... graviert wird " means "is to be
engraved" at some point of time in the future but it hasn't happened yet.
- but that's only the prooemium. We will now move on to even more
striking evidence Mr. Akins' whole "work" is based on terribly flawed
machine translations from English to German and not the other way around:
The English word _form_ happens to be two different words in German.
On one hand you've got _Formular_ which is the paperwork you fill out,
say, when getting a building permit or passport or such, and on the
other you have _Form_ as in "shape", which is used the very same
way it's used in English. (no surprise there)
Mr. Akins meant to convey the second meaning when he forged this
document but used the word for the first meaning instead.
_FORMULAR DES TALISMANS_ doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
and neither does _EINER [genitive] PLATTE DES EISENS_ which is
quite obvious a re-translation of archaic "plate of iron" in English.
Even if this would have meant to MIRROR archaic German, it would
have to read _PLATTE VON EISEN_ INSTEAD.
_PLATTE DES EISENS_ means literally "plate of *the* iron" (not plate
of iron) with all implications of a singular specific object made of this
material. In short, there is a plate attached to the iron. Makes no sense.
_AUF EINER PLATTE [...] GRAVIERT WIRD_ is bad German as well.
That should read, if at all, _AUF EINE PLATTE_ without the extra R
but then we're back to future tense again and the circle is closed.
1X2Willows
> On Sep 13, 7:30 am, Akins of that Bilk <stevenak...@bellsouth.net>
I can only surmise a guy who misses religious dogma so much he
makes up his own, cannot handle freedom of thought to the point of
being dead-scared of it. We find this phenomenon very often in all
fundie circles,mostly in the Abrahamic section of course, but also
to a lesser degree in the ones of recovering church goers who think
of themselves as pagan yet have no idea how to actually *do* it.
Kent
wrote:
> I can think of other example where religious scriptures of equal
> antiquity still hold meaning for their religious followings centuries
> after they were written - the Torah, the Quran, the Vedas, all still
> serve as the primary scriptural texts for those who follow the
> respective faiths to which they belong.
I never said that it wouldn't hold meaning. Is Christianity the exact
same religion that it was two millenia ago? No, certainly not. It
grew, it adapted, it followed society as it grew and changed. Yes, the
basic underlying principals of it are the same, but it certainly isn't
what it started out as. You're asking people to take a 1500 year old
text, completely at your word that it is such to begin with, and
practice it. How anachronistic.
> I don't think Celtic
> spirituality needs a modern-day makeover.
Your talking makeover, I'm talking what it would have been IF said
book had not been "lost" for all this time. You're right, Celtic
Spirituality doesn't need a modern-day makeover. It's doing just fine
without such.
1X2Willows
There is no "Celtic Religion [Tm.]", never has been, never will.
Deal with it. - and no, calling it spirituality won't help either.
If you intended to fool the honorable tribe of the Irish and Scots by
proxy with your amusing fantasy epic of "scripture" and "prophets"
and "divine revelation",
a) you've failed miserably and
b) keep trying for all I care. None of my business.
in as little respect as you deserve
Danu of the Willows, Helveti
Dana
"1X2Willows" <nos...@least.invalid> wrote in message
news:h8jfgq$a7a$1...@news.albasani.net...
Basically.
Of course the 18th and 19th century imperialists who "took up the white
man's burden" regarded written-down "holy scripture" as evidence of an
"advanced" civilization, since their own along with their rationale for
imperialism was based on that very thing.
All this "holy scripture" stuff really does is get in between the Truth of
the practice and the practitioner. While I like everyone else on a
Druidic/Celtic path have wished we had more hard information on what our
ancestors did, I don't want it at the price of losing the sense and
knowledge of the wholistic nature of Druidry.
I am for some absurd reason reminded of the story of St. Francis and the
young novice who wanted a breviary. Even a Christian like Francis realized
the danger of written word getting in the way of true understanding.
1X2Willows
The path of the Druid requires neither "faith" nor "belief" you moron.
It is a very traditional, ancient way of being and doing, after training.
Goes without saying it's not a free for all for the likes of you, either.
1X2Willows
> "1X2Willows" wrote
You know as well as I do that we have all the information we need,
given our filters are set to the appropriate parameters. There is such a
wealth of primal knowledge out there still, to be received by those with
an open mind and skillfully grounded, it makes one's heart sing.
> I am for some absurd reason reminded of the story of St. Francis and
> the young novice who wanted a breviary. Even a Christian like
> Francis realized the danger of written word getting in the way of
> true understanding.
Giovanni di Pietro Bernardone or Francesco d'Assisi as he came to be
more commonly known, was a Continental Druid in the Middle Ages
who tried to consolidate druidic practice with Christianity to the largest
extent his society would let him at the time, without running the danger
of getting accused of heresy. He did come very close however ;)
Sizzle Flambé
> If you mean those three lines _English "translation"_, _German "original"_
> and _actual grammatical German translation of the English_ I'm going
> to have to say Yes, they're absolutely right whoever they are. Can't find
> a single "but...!" in there myself and you should know how anal I am
> about these things.
If you'd like to look over a much longer text, the whole chapter
of which that was the first half-sentence, Akins posted it here:
<http://mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=3780538&postcount=32>.
I'd add "Enjoy!"... but I suspect you'll wince and groan instead.
Akins of that Ilk
>
> - Show quoted text -
If you believe the Druid path requires neither faith nor belief, then
you have no understanding of what Druidism actually was. The Lebor
Feasa Runda aside, we still know from those who lived at the time the
historical Druids flourished and knew them first hand, that belief and
faith were key to the Druidic doctrine. As example, I will point to
the following:
"The cardinal doctrine which they [the Druids] seek to teach is that
souls do not die, but after death pass from one body to another; and
this belief, as the feare of death is thereby cast aside, they hold to
be the greatest incentive to valour."
- Julius Caesar, the Gallic Wars
"The Druids make their pronouncements by means of riddles and dark
sayings, teaching that the gods must be worshipped, and no evil done,
and manly behavior maintained."
- Diogenes Laertius, Lives of the Philosophers.
"The Gauls affirm that they are all descended from a common father,
[called in Latin] Dis Pater, and say that this is the tradition of the
Druids."
- Julius Caesar, The Gallic Wars
"The Druids....say that men's souls, and also the universe are
indestructible, although both fire and water at some time or other
prevail over them."
- Strabo, Geographica
"They have, however, their own kind of eloquence, and teachers of
wisdom called Druids. They profess to know the size and shape of the
world, the movements of the heavens and the stars, and the will of the
gods. They teach many things to the nobels of Gaul in a course of
instruction lasting as long as twenty years, meeting in secret either
in a cave or secluded dales. One of their dogmas has come to common
knowledge, namely, that souls are eternal and there is another life in
the infernal regions....And it is for this reason too that they burn
or bury with their dead, things appropriate to them in life, and that
in times past they even used to defer the completion of business and
the payments of debts until their arrival in another world. Indeed,
there were some of them who flung themselves willingly on the funeral
pyres of their relatives in order to share the new life with them."
- Pomponius Mela, De Situ Orbis
So what do we make of in regard to your statement that the path of the
Druid requires neither faith or belief, in light of the above
testimony? I would say that the followers of the true Druidic path had
plenty of faith and belief. Whithout faith and belief, there is no
point in religion since spirituality deals in matters that can never
be proven, but can only be trusted in through faith and belief.
1X2Willows
Oh that one. Yes thank you, been there done that last night.
This was the reason for my comment "quite extensive passages
Akins of that Ilk
The we would probably have a situation similar to that found in other
religions; Druidism would probably at some point over the past 1500
years have split into factions, Orthodox Druidism, Reformed Druidism,
etc. Conservatives such as myself tend to go in one direction, while
liberals go off in their own direction. This has nothing to do with
Abrahamic faith; I myself never believed in any of the Semitic
religions and was drawn to Paganism at an early age, out of the fact
that it was more true to my own ethnicity and race, my ancestors all
having come from the British Isles; the cult of the Jew on a stick
never struck any chords within me personally.
Michael Magrath
wrote:
Certainly our Irish Druids were surviving and well during the reign of
High King Diarmuid MacCearbaill who lived on Tara during the middle of
the 6th century AD ( who was cursed by the Irish St. Ruadhan ) .
Obviously at this time Druid and Christian in Ireland survived side by
side BUT it appears that the Druids had left Tara by this time, and
it seems as if they left Tara voluntarily too . By 597, however,
Christian forces had taken over their Druid Mound , Breagach Valley
and sacred springs here in the midst of future Kilkenny City .
However, there is then no further word about them until the Pagan
Fires and Ruined Cities described by the author of Feilire Oengusso
around 800 BC . And The Rock of Cashel is in Christian hands by the
beginning of the reign of Brian Boru at the end of the tenth century,
by which time they seem to have lost their Royal Adviser roles. Irish
Druids would have appeared to have begun to have lost their power back
in King Diarmuid's time when he did not have them as allies against
Ruadhain on Tara, Ruadhain being a tough hard man , though Diarmuid
seems to have got the better of him by trickery - and Diatmuid , a
Pagan High King is thus reported without Druids, what is going in
here ? Did they leave or were they cast out of, Tara by pagan High
Kings ? Had Patrick , or rather, the Patricks bribed the kings with
Roman gold ( that was always very easy, especially after
Laoighaire ) . O'Murchu does write of Patrick bribing Irish kings with
Roman gold ! Patrick basically admits this himself . Were the Patricks
an early Irish Church dynasty ? ( You have the MacGiolla Phadraig,
Sons of the Servants of Patrick, ' Fitzpatrick ' , today ) . You even
have the MacGiolla Easpaig ( Sons of the Servants of the Bishop, and
MacGiolla Iosa ( McAleese, President Mary McAleese) , Sons of the
Servants of Jesus - not Norman, but all from this time, even MacAn
Easpaig ( Son of the Bishop ! ) which latter would be nothing new
where Irish Bishops are concerned, especially from this time . Were
there whole clans of these Christians being set up at this time, at a
time when the Druids had lost or were losing power, to determine the
clans ? I think this is a bigger and far more important question than
Akin's book, if he will allow me, and I don't think his book tells us
anything of what was going on at this most important time, and if it
doesn't , to my mind it fails and falls down. Of course it was within
the powers of Druids by this time to set everything down in writing ,
just as much as it was to any humble monk, so the Druidic prohibitions
would not have carried much weight over these vital centuries when the
Druids were obviously falling apart thoughout most of Ireland. Yet,
what really happened during these vital centuries is all hushed up by
both Druids and the Church, bits getting out like from the Felire
Oengusso , bits that write of burning and pagans being carried away,
their cities desolate, but this was in 800 AD - just as the Vikings
unleashed their matauding raids on Ireland...
Maybe Akin's book's biggest failure is that it does not seem to tell
us anything new, and maybe for that reason it was a manuscript that
the Germans had got hold off ? As it is unremarkable in that it does
not add anything at all, we seem to know more in fact , and of these
type of Mss there are still probably some more of them hanging
around ,in ancient monasteries, even in the vatican itself ( more than
likely ) that do not really tell us anything new beyond myth and
mythology......
In all this context it could be a very old unremarkable Mss alright,
one that does not tell us anything more than we know or have come to
decipher and understand over the past couple of centuries.
And, therefore, in this regard, it is easy to see how Searles would be
so interested in it ( no offence, Searles ) . But, Akins, I don't
think, no matter what, you would ever get it taking seriously, for
instance, in Trinity College Dublin !
So I don't see how you would gain from it in anyway, and it's probably
costing you dearly in times of energy and time , making little money
either, and unlikely too .
Cheers,
Michael
PS : My Personal Opinion only .
Kent
wrote:
> The we would probably have a situation similar to that found in other
> religions; Druidism would probably at some point over the past 1500
> years have split into factions, Orthodox Druidism, Reformed Druidism,
> etc. Conservatives such as myself tend to go in one direction, while
> liberals go off in their own direction.
So, what you're saying is that we'd have different Druid Groups all
claiming that theirs is "the one true way" and that all the other
Druid Groups "have it wrong".
Funny, doesn't sound any different than what we have now...
Oh, I know what you're answer is going to be over that...we didn't
have the almighty LFR.
Get it through your your Ayrian Supremacist thick skull...Druidry, and
its teachings, DID survive in a variety of ways and all without your
glorious LFR. You're NOT the savior of Druidry, come to lead the
misguided masses back to the "true way". The proselytizing isn't going
to work, and you really need to seek professional help over your
really bad messianic complex.
> This has nothing to do with
> Abrahamic faith; I myself never believed in any of the Semitic
> religions and was drawn to Paganism at an early age, out of the fact
> that it was more true to my own ethnicity and race, my ancestors all
> having come from the British Isles; the cult of the Jew on a stick
> never struck any chords within me personally.
Doesn't your chest get really sore from thumping it all the time?
1X2Willows
GONG
past tense
sorry you lose
again
Michael Magrath
Mogruith the Fabulous Druid of Valentia in full battle against the
Druids of Tara ( Catha Droma Damghaire in The Book of Lismore ) -
THAT to me looks like there was a full scale civil war between the
Druids of Munster and the Druids of Tara !!!
Cheers,
Michael .
Michael Magrath
Mogruith - Mogroith - Mo Groith - Mo Chroi - My Heart , Mogruith,
Druid of My Heart, What is going on here, The Sacred Heart ???
OF COURSE There was a split, and long before the time of the Coming of
Patrick either - ALL these Christian legends surrounding Mogruith,
that he was the Student of the magical Simon Magus, that he learned
all his magic from the Magus, that he decapitated John the Baptist ,
and then that he dopped a tear whilst flying to Ireland over
Switzerland that became Lake Lucerne, and that finally he
miscalculated a Moon Phase in his telluric force calculations when
flying back to Ireland and thus crashed to his death off the coast of
Wexford, his body taken from therre by his Goddess daughter Tlachtha
and buried under an obelisk in the middle of Tipperary, not far from
the townland of Cregile there ( Cre Ghile , which I presume to mean
The Bright Earth !!! ) .
Of course...
Michael Magrath
OF COURSE there was a split, and if I was a suspicious cop I'd be
looking seriously at that fellow Mogruith for his Christian
leanings !
Cheers,
Michael .
Akins of that Ilk
>
> - Show quoted text -
My publication of the Lebor Feasa Runda has nothing to do with making
money. If I could afford to, I would gladly give millions of copies of
it away for free, like Gideon's Bible. The reason why I published the
Lebor Feasa Runda is out of love for my people, love for the rich
ethnic and cultural heritage we share, love for the true faith of our
people, and the true gods and goddesses of our race. I wish to see
this restored and preserved for all furture generations. Just as
Ollamh Fodhla declared in his testament "I saw that all the teachings
and learning of this present age were astray, and that no man was
without flaw" so too this may well be said of all those today who call
themselves "Druid"; but there is a better way than the current
situation, and that way is to follow the ways of Draiocht as they were
revealed to Ollamh Fodhla and set down by him in the Lebor Feasa
Runda, as the proper means of calling upon the Tuatha De Danann to
assist our race in all its endeavors, as they are wont to do.
Akins of that Ilk
>
> - Show quoted text -
I saw "was" because what passes for Druidism these days has no
connection with the true Druidism of the past. John Michael Greer,
Skip Ellison, Isaac Bonewits, Philip Carr-Gomm, the Celtic-Recons and
their like are promoting systems of practice that have nothing to do
with the Druidic faith, yet they pawn it off as such on those who are
willing to settle for it. There is something better, far better in my
opinion, and I have made that available to those who are willing to
accept it.
Akins of that Ilk
Michael Magrath
wrote:
Undoubtedly all the monasteries throughout Britain and Ireland would
have been pillaged and plundered at the time of The Dissolution of the
Monasteries by Edict of Henry VIII , and, perhaps, rather than burning
everything, some of Henry's scholars would have brought back a lot of
manuscripts from Ireland to Henry's Court, he himself being a
brilliant scholar, called previously ' Defensor Fidei ' by Rome !
Certainly some ancient Irish Mss. went that way ...
Akins of that Ilk
>
> - Show quoted text -
According to the Lebor Feasa Runda, it was the Druid Mogh Ruith,
though blind in one eye, who deciphered the testament of Ollamh Fodhla
after it has been discovered in his tomb. Mogh Ruith called upon the
Tuatha De Danann to give him the power to decipher what Ollamh Fodhla
had inscribed on the staves of yew wood, which Mogh Ruith then
recorded as the Lebor Feasa Runda in the Black Book of Loughcrew.
Michael Magrath
> It seems that some folks that I don't like very much (but who say they
> are Celtic Reconstructionists) have debunked or attacked Steven Akins'
> German copies over on Wikipedia:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Druid#.22The_Lebor_Feasa_Runda.22
>
> I'm wondering if their evaluation is correct or not regarding whether
> the German pages offered are a machine translation of some original
> English or not?
>
> Some of the people posting there on the subject are people that I know
> to either purposeluy distort what others are saying or they are so
> biased in regard to their own opinions as to not see that they are so
> doing. In short, it would go a long way toward ascertaining if the
> offered are made up.
>
> I'd really love to hear from people who have a native grasp of German
> for an answer to the controversy.
>
> Searles O'Dubhain
Yes, I see it, Searles, an ignorant diatribe in bad language, shrill,
inane, even insane, over on Wiki - I wouldn't waste my time trying to
correct it to state that this matter is open for examination , and
that the help of experts & academics who do contribute to Wikipaedia,
would be greatly appreciated in the resolution.,.
Michael Magrath
Ollamh Fodhla is not a personal name, but , as you know, simply means
' Professor of Learning ' . I haven't heard of the Black Book of
Loughcrew, from the same place as the Loughcrew Calendar Stone, 40
miles west of Tara. . Mogruith himself is always known as a worker
of magic & marvels rather than as a scholar, not known for reading,
writing, discovery, not even learning, he is a rather uncouth rough-
cut fellow , interested in possessions, property, wealth, a doer, a
man of action, and great travels too, rather than as a scolar - that
does not suit him ! .
Cheers,
Michael.
1X2Willows
> On Sep 13, 4:55 pm, Akins of that Bilk <stevenak...@bellsouth.net>
I'd like to have Mr. wannabe messiah show up to one our "parties".
Ya'know... socialize... yak with the old Hippies... shoot some grouse...
1X2Willows
>
> *said
Well in that case, one of your own poems might tie you over.
Don't worry Boy, you will be saved and redeemed eventually.
Surprise!!! :-Dan
Akins of that Ilk
>
> - Show quoted text -
No, Ollamh Fodhlar isn't a personal name, but as yoiu correctly point
out, was the title by which Ireland's wisest and greatest king,
Eochaidh, was known. Mogh Ruith was accredited with a great deal, as
you have likewise already pointed out; though I believe the bits about
him beheading John the Baptist and being a fellow of Simon Magus are
examples of Christian contamination into our native Pagan history and
heritage.
1X2Willows
recruiting aren't we
Michael Magrath
Eochaidh, today MacEochaidh > Haughey !
The late and mostly unlamented Taoiseach of Ireland, Charles J.
Haughey T.D. , was immensely proud of that,
he was dead set against the M3 at Tara on account of that, but, to
late, he had retired and handed over to Bertie Ahern, and now, Brian
Cowen .
I can't see where your book will do any harm anyway, it will never be
proven one way or the other, and anyway it's a book expounding the
noblest of Druidic principles . That's the way the Irish would look on
it .
Cheers,
Michael,
AD Ireland .
Akins of that Ilk
>
> - Show quoted text -
I extend my hand to all people who share my heritage, and hold up a
lamp before them that they might find their way out of the darkness.
1X2Willows
>
> lamp before them that they might find their way out of the darkness.
oh puke
anything more original?
like... less Bible-based than "darkness"?
I'd go for cows.
Got Milk?
PS Fuck you and your "heritage" you dark skinned, dark haired,
dark eyed bastard
:o)
Akins of that Ilk
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, that is the way of any sacred scripture; be it the Bible, the
Rig Veda, the Eddas, or what have you. The important thing is that
this has been left to the Gael, to reconnect us to our gods and reveal
the means by which to summon them. There will always be cynics and
disbelievers in regard to any faith, those who doubt the veracity of
what is written in the books held holy by various peoples; so it is no
suprise that the same should hold true where the teachings imparted to
our race by our gods are concerned.
Michael Magrath
Yes, I can see that, objectively -
but the Voice of Eochaidh seems far too simplistic
than what I would expect :
but that's me, thinking subjectively .
Now, I'll love you & leave you
to the People of Dan
Now, abed, G'night
Cheers,
Michael
Canniuanos
news:h8jhi6$dh1$1...@news.albasani.net...
> Akins of that Ilk wrote:
>>
>>>> You answer your own question and don't even realize it.
>>>
>>>> You use the word "was".
>>>
>>>> Okay, let's assume (from my standpoint, that is) that the LFR is
>>>> genuine. Let's also assume that it had somehow managed to stay in
>>>> circulation over the past 1500 years. Do you really think that its
>>>> ideas and practices would have went unchanged as society and culture
>>>> changed, adapted, and grew over those 1500 years? Do you honestly
>>>> believe that those words would hold the exact same meanings to the
>>>> practitioners in the 21st century as they did in the 6th?
>>
>> Then OTOH you have what can only be described as modern or recently
>> developed religions like Mormonism, Wicca, Satanism, etc., whose
>> scriptures are of far more recent lineage. Even so, the important
>> thing is that those scriptures exist, to define what their faith
>> represents. Druidism was never intended to be an undefined spiritual
>> path of ambiguity; even though many modern so-called "Druids" seem to
>> have no problem with it being just that - even though equating such a
>> state of chaotic nothingness with Druidism is an insult to the
>> religion and cultural heritage of the people that the faith properly
>> belongs to.
>
> The path of the Druid requires neither "faith" nor "belief" you moron.
> It is a very traditional, ancient way of being and doing, after training.
> Goes without saying it's not a free for all for the likes of you, either.
>
moron
1910, from Gk. (Attic) moron, neut. of moros "foolish, dull" (probably
cognate with Skt. murah "idiotic;" L. morus "foolish" is a loan-word from
Gk.). Adopted by the American Association for the Study of the Feeble-minded
with a technical definition "adult with a mental age between 8 and 12;" used
as an insult since 1922 and subsequently dropped from technical use. Linn�us
had introduced morisis "idiocy."
Searles O'Dubhain
I see Mogh Ruith in this manner as well (as a man of action and is
show that way in the tales) though he was a masterful Druid as well.
Almost anyone who studied as a Druid in Ireland would have been
proficient in reading and writing Ogham however. The name and title of
Ollamh Fodla is not to removed from Russian ideas about the engineer
Sergei Pavlovich Korolev who was known as "the Chief Designer" in the
Russia space program. In the Irish traditions and histories about
things, such "overnames" are applied to many individuals including An
Dagda. Even Mogh Ruith's own name is of this type.
Searles O'Dubhain
Searles O'Dubhain
>
> In all this context it could be a very old unremarkable Mss alright,
> one that does not tell us anything more than we know or have come to
> decipher and understand over the past couple of centuries.
>
> And, therefore, in this regard, it is easy to see how Searles would be
> so interested in it ( no offence, Searles ) . But, Akins, I don't
> think, no matter what, you would ever get it taking seriously, for
> instance, in Trinity College Dublin !
>
> So I don't see how you would gain from it in anyway, and it's probably
> costing you dearly in times of energy and time , making little money
> either, and unlikely too .
>
> Cheers,
> Michael
>
> PS : My Personal Opinion only .
Michael,
The parts that would be of interest to me and which go beyond some of
the existing documents available to us are the use of Ogham talismans,
the recording of the tale on Ogham staves and the purported earlier
histories of the Tuatha Dé Danann before they came to this world or to
Ireland. The rest of it pretty much follows other documents that are
already available in the existing literature though it is presented in
a KJV-Biblical type of voice. I personally prefer the way that Lagy
Gregory told the tales (in her English interpretations; though it
would have been better if she had not filtered the sexual activities
and other things through the Victorian filters and mores).
Slán,
Searles
Michael Magrath
Yes, I can see this and agree, Searles, just pointing it out . And in
either case what harm can be done as Akins' book is obviously a
didactory work of high morality based on ancient times in Ireland,
during a romantic golden age that people of today could well emulate
in our own standards of morality and behaviour - for even if you
sdon't believe in the Bible you could do no harm by adhering to the
Sermon on the Mount, for instance, and Jesus' wonderful sayings and
parables too - I remember a senior Irish Druid instructing me, taking
Jesus up that he would have made a powerful Irish Filidh !!!
Cheers,
Michael .
Michael Magrath
Concerning the deplorable ' comment' that has appeared in Wikipaedia
concerning Akin's book, the writer of that drivel does him or her self
no honour. For instance I know a learned Scholar in Trinity College
Dublin, a world-renowed figure ( originally from Western Australia ),
Dr. Brian Coghlan, an acknowledged expert in logical microcomputer
programming at Assembly Sub-Level Design, who trots off purposefully
most weekends to dutifully bring Wikipaedia up-to-date ! I feel this
is the respectful way in which one should treat Wikipaedia, not wreck
it irresponsibly .
Cheers,
Michael .
Birgit Bucher
> Sizzle Flamb� wrote:
>> On Sep 13, 1:40 pm, "1X2Willows" wrote:
>>
>>> If you mean those three lines _English "translation"_, _German
>>> "original"_ and _actual grammatical German translation of the
>>> English_ I'm going
>>> to have to say Yes, they're absolutely right whoever they are. Can't
>>> find a single "but...!" in there myself and you should know how anal
>>> I am about these things.
>>
>> If you'd like to look over a much longer text, the whole chapter
>> of which that was the first half-sentence, Akins posted it here:
>> <http://mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=3780538&postcount=32>.
>>
>> I'd add "Enjoy!"... but I suspect you'll wince and groan instead.
>
> Oh that one. Yes thank you, been there done that last night.
> This was the reason for my comment "quite extensive passages
> Mr. Akins has 'kindly offered' so far."
After having read the whole text sample ... IMO the so-called German
"original" is a bad translation of the English text, like babel fish
would translate ...
"Ruler" zum "Tabellierprogramm" zu machen ist schon spa�ig im
Zusammenhang des Textes. Ob es das zur damaligen Zeit der �bersetzung
ins Deutsche bereits gab?
Vergn�gen f�hlt sich anders an. ;-)
Birgit
--
Habe Mut, dich deines eigenen Verstandes zu bedienen
Immanuel Kant
Michael Magrath
> 1X2Willows wrote:
> > Sizzle Flambé wrote:
> >> On Sep 13, 1:40 pm, "1X2Willows" wrote:
>
> >>> If you mean those three lines _English "translation"_, _German
> >>> "original"_ and _actual grammatical German translation of the
> >>> English_ I'm going
> >>> to have to say Yes, they're absolutely right whoever they are. Can't
> >>> find a single "but...!" in there myself and you should know how anal
> >>> I am about these things.
>
> >> If you'd like to look over a much longer text, the whole chapter
> >> of which that was the first half-sentence, Akins posted it here:
> >> <http://mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=3780538&postcount=32>.
>
> >> I'd add "Enjoy!"... but I suspect you'll wince and groan instead.
>
> > Oh that one. Yes thank you, been there done that last night.
> > This was the reason for my comment "quite extensive passages
> > Mr. Akins has 'kindly offered' so far."
>
> After having read the whole text sample ... IMO the so-called German
> "original" is a bad translation of the English text, like babel fish
> would translate ...
>
> Zusammenhang des Textes. Ob es das zur damaligen Zeit der Übersetzung
> ins Deutsche bereits gab?
>
> Vergnügen fühlt sich anders an. ;-)
>
> Birgit
> --
> Habe Mut, dich deines eigenen Verstandes zu bedienen
> Immanuel Kant
Well, there it is, I trust Birgit, always have .
Cheers,
Michael .
1X2Willows
> 1X2Willows wrote:
>> Sizzle Flamb� wrote:
>>> On Sep 13, 1:40 pm, "1X2Willows" wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you mean those three lines _English "translation"_, _German
>>>> "original"_ and _actual grammatical German translation of the
>>>> English_ I'm going to have to say Yes, they're absolutely right whoever
>>>> they are. Can't find a single "but...!" in there myself and you should
>>>> know how anal I am about these things.
>>>
>>> If you'd like to look over a much longer text, the whole chapter
>>> of which that was the first half-sentence, Akins posted it here:
>>> <http://mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=3780538&postcount=32>.
>>>
>>> I'd add "Enjoy!"... but I suspect you'll wince and groan instead.
>>
>> Oh that one. Yes thank you, been there done that last night.
>> This was the reason for my comment "quite extensive passages
>> Mr. Akins has 'kindly offered' so far."
>
> After having read the whole text sample ... IMO the so-called German
> "original" is a bad translation of the English text, like babel fish
> would translate ...
No doubt about it. Most certainly definitely absolutely NOT! the writings
of a native German speaker. The whole thing is one gigantic train wreck
and it is simply inconceivable, anyone would think they can get away with
such a botched piece of pretentious garbage. But then, you'll only have
to look at those jokes he also produced in the PhotoShop department
http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/akins1.htm
and I guess nothing can surprise us anymore... Thigh-slappin' fun!
> "Ruler" zum "Tabellierprogramm" zu machen ist schon spa�ig im
> Zusammenhang des Textes. Ob es das zur damaligen Zeit der �bersetzung
> ins Deutsche bereits gab?
ROFL! den hab ich noch gar nicht gesehen. Erinnert mich an "Sekte"
das anderswo als "sparkling wines" dargeboten wurde. :-)
> Vergn�gen f�hlt sich anders an. ;-)
! :-Dan
Dana
"1X2Willows" <nos...@least.invalid> wrote in message
I knew those sparkling wines were going to show up sooner or later in this
discussion........
1X2Willows
> "1X2Willows" wrote
>> Birgit Bucher wrote:
>>
>>> "Ruler" zum "Tabellierprogramm" zu machen ist schon spa�ig im
>>> Zusammenhang des Textes. Ob es das zur damaligen Zeit der
>>> �bersetzung ins Deutsche bereits gab?
>>
>> ROFL! den hab ich noch gar nicht gesehen. Erinnert mich an "Sekte"
>> das anderswo als "sparkling wines" dargeboten wurde. :-)
>
> this discussion........
How about "Behold your cabbage! I can become a cabbage for 50cents!"
for "Behalt deinen Kohl! Ich kann einen Kohl fuer 50cents bekommen!"
:-))))))))))))))