Question about Higher Power
Stephen
I'd like to begin a 12 step program for my alcoholism and
codependency. I'm stumped and confused about steps 2 and 3. The
concept of higher power is beyond me. I can't believe in a Christian
God, and to me, the universe seems totally random, chaotic and
meaningless. My perception of its creation (if there was one) and its
existence reflects these thoughts and feelings.
I would love to give control to a higher power. It's comforting to
think of myself as a speck thats out of control, which is the truth.
I just don't know what higher power to relinquish control to.
Comments welcome. Thanks, Stephen.
Stephen
Elizabeth H Bonesteel
Hi Stephen,
In article <50pl4k$a...@daffy.sb.west.net>, Stephen <cof...@west.net> wrote:
> I'd like to begin a 12 step program for my alcoholism and
>codependency. I'm stumped and confused about steps 2 and 3. The
>concept of higher power is beyond me. I can't believe in a Christian
>God, and to me, the universe seems totally random, chaotic and
>meaningless. My perception of its creation (if there was one) and its
>existence reflects these thoughts and feelings.
There is something inside of each of us, often deeply buried, that KNOWS
what we need from life, and which courses of action are right or wrong.
Most of us seem to lose sight of that knowledge at a very young age; in
fact, we seem to live in a world that tells us not to trust it.
To me, my Higher Power is that part of me that instinctively and wordlessly
knows what I need. My 12-step recovery is based on trying to contact that
part of myself that knows what will make me happy, and then to LISTEN to
it. The "meaning" of the universe, if any, is irrelevant if I can't
listen to my own wants and needs.
Just my point of view. I think you will find there are many with regard
to a Higher Power; don't let the imagery of traditional religion restrict
you.
Peace,
Liz
--
li...@world.std.com
Web Page In Embryo: http://world.std.com/~lizb/oasis.html
Beatrice Muller
Hi Stephen,
I can relate to your question.
I had not an easy time with the concept of a higher power.
I still do not know exactly what it is for me.
the only thing I needed to know is that I am not in charge of the world.
I learned slowly to let go of things (without actually giving it over to a higher power).
It was just such a relief to know that I don't have to run the world (i don't
know if a higher power does).
I have been in recovery for several years now and had a huge reluctance to
go to CodA because of the higher power concept. but I got so much out of
it. AS they say in the program: take what you like and leave the rest.
Has worked for me.
Beatrice
Carmella V. Greacen
In article <50pl4k$a...@daffy.sb.west.net> cof...@west.net (Stephen ) writes:
>From: cof...@west.net (Stephen )
>Subject: Question about Higher Power
>Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 15:50:34 GMT
> I'd like to begin a 12 step program for my alcoholism and
>codependency. I'm stumped and confused about steps 2 and 3. The
>concept of higher power is beyond me. I can't believe in a Christian
>God, and to me, the universe seems totally random, chaotic and
>meaningless. My perception of its creation (if there was one) and its
>existence reflects these thoughts and feelings.
> I would love to give control to a higher power. It's comforting to
>think of myself as a speck thats out of control, which is the truth.
>I just don't know what higher power to relinquish control to.
>Comments welcome. Thanks, Stephen.
Stephen -
Your post reminded me of a story I read of an AA member who chose a TREE
as his "higher power" (the story was intended to illustrate that it doesn't
matter WHAT we choose - it's about surrender, not intellectual understanding)
anyway, one day he ran into his support group and shouted: "They cut
down my higher power!"
On a more esoteric level, I found my own "higher power" via sub-atomic
physics. (The Tao of Physics by Capra was my start). When I realized that
nothing is "solid" - that what appears solid is only more rapidly vibrating
atoms & molecules - I also realized that there is a constant "exchange"
between me & what I perceive as my "environment" . . . that I AM my
environment and it is "me."
Therefore, I am in constant exchange with everything - the chaos, what
appears as "order" . . . . and I have no CLUE what it all "means" - just that
what I "see" is a very small part of the magnificence of what "is" - and that
all, ultimately, is ONE. In Hebrew, they say "Ohm Echod" - "All is One."
And that "oneness" is my higher power. For from that "oneness" comes what
we perceive as "beauty" "intelligence" "power" . . . . and I am a part of that.
peace. Carmella
Marny F
In <50pl4k$a...@daffy.sb.west.net> cof...@west.net (Stephen ) writes:
>
> I'd like to begin a 12 step program for my alcoholism and
>codependency. I'm stumped and confused about steps 2 and 3. The
>concept of higher power is beyond me. I can't believe in a Christian
>God, and to me, the universe seems totally random, chaotic and
>meaningless. My perception of its creation (if there was one) and its
>existence reflects these thoughts and feelings.
> I would love to give control to a higher power. It's comforting to
>think of myself as a speck thats out of control, which is the truth.
>I just don't know what higher power to relinquish control to.
>Comments welcome. Thanks, Stephen.
>
I'm Marny. *Your* HP can be whatever YOU want!! (besides, in the deity of
G-d, I believe there is only ONE...S/He *IS*... and is not a "Christian" or a
"Jewish" or a "Protestant" etc.
In fact, if a favorite chair makes you feel warm, safe, and comfortable--make
IT your HP!
The Universe is random, chaotic, and --- well, I'm not sure about
"meaningless." <s> But it's OURS for as long as we're here. I can choose to
enjoy it or not. I can decide to be someplace where help is available and with
people who are healthier so I can learn to enjoy MY life. I have learned, for
the most part, to stay away from toxic people, even if they are close
friends or even family. I have the choice of minimizes my presence to
their toxic ways.
The only person over whom I have control--is ME. Little ole me. And
sometimes, even *I* scare myself! Especially when I do something
healthy that I've never done before!!! Whew! A scary thing...but the
good feelings are becoming a nicer feeling...after 6 years in CoDA and
with the help of a good therapist...plus, a very supportive husband.
Easy? Nah! But nothing that I can think of that is worth something is
"easy."
Look at the pressure the elements are under--in order to create a
Diamond! Or a Pearl! <s>
Hang in! You're worth it!!!
Hug<s>,
Marny
Marny F
In <word.506...@primenet.com> wo...@primenet.com (Carmella V. Greacen)
writes:
>
>In article <50pl4k$a...@daffy.sb.west.net> cof...@west.net (Stephen ) writes:
[snipped]
>>I just don't know what higher power to relinquish control to.
>>Comments welcome. Thanks, Stephen.
>
>Stephen -
>...Your post reminded me of a story I read of an AA member who chose a TREE
>as his "higher power" (the story was intended to illustrate that it doesn't
>matter WHAT we choose - it's about surrender, not intellectual understanding)
>
> anyway, one day he ran into his support group and shouted: "They cut
>down my higher power!"
>
> On a more esoteric level, I found my own "higher power" via sub-atomic
>physics. (The Tao of Physics by Capra was my start). When I realized that
>nothing is "solid" - that what appears solid is only more rapidly vibrating
>atoms & molecules - I also realized that there is a constant "exchange"
>between me & what I perceive as my "environment" . . . that I AM my
>environment and it is "me."
>
> Therefore, I am in constant exchange with everything - the chaos, what
>appears as "order" . . . . and I have no CLUE what it all "means" - just that
>what I "see" is a very small part of the magnificence of what "is" -
and that
>all, ultimately, is ONE. In Hebrew, they say "Ohm Echod" - "All is
One."
>
> And that "oneness" is my higher power. For from that "oneness"
comes what
>we perceive as "beauty" "intelligence" "power" . . . . and I am a part
of that.
>
>peace. Carmella
Hi C!
I feel so serene after reading your post. Thank you.
Shalom and hug<s>,
Marny
Jen Carr
Stephen <cof...@west.net> wrote in article
<50plm4$a...@daffy.sb.west.net>...
> I'd like to begin a 12 step program for my alcoholism and
> codependency. I'm stumped and confused about steps 2 and 3. The
> concept of higher power is beyond me. I can't believe in a Christian
> God, and to me, the universe seems totally random, chaotic and
> meaningless. My perception of its creation (if there was one) and its
> existence reflects these thoughts and feelings.
> I would love to give control to a higher power. It's comforting to
> think of myself as a speck thats out of control, which is the truth.
> I just don't know what higher power to relinquish control to.
> Comments welcome. Thanks, Stephen.
>
Stephen,
I definately can relate to the confusion you say you are feeling. I was
a Jewishish Catholic Born-Again Christian Pagan when I began the
program. (No Joke - my religion changed daily dependant upon who I
was with!) Needless to say, I was very confused about what it meant
to have a higher power and exactly what that higher power was.
For a little while I simply used the program as my higher power. I saw
people in recovery there and knew it worked for them so I believed that
if I went to meetings, worked the steps, got a sponsor etc. that it would
work for me too. The second step "Came to believe that a power greater
than ourselves could restore us to sanity" became easy when I didn't try
to figure out my religion and belief system all at once. I could let the
prgram do for me what I could not do for myself.
BTW, I did eventually come to believe in a "God-like" higher power,
but it still doesn't fit into any organized religion. With my background,
I don't really expect it to. It is something that I am still working on.
Love and Clarity,
Jen
TBrant1
I want to thank Stephan for asking and everyone else for their answers. I
am working the Steps for the first time and am stuck on Two. New to this
newsgroup and really like the variety of responses that can be gotten to a
question, even (especially?) the critical ones.
I was resisting surrendering to something that felt as contrived and
culturally-defined as the "Gods" of most organized religions do to me.
Like I had to stand up and repent in a tent revival. Now I plan to try
finding and surrendering to my own good sense. That won't be easy,
either, but at least I'm not struggling with myself anymore (not about
THIS anyway).
Thanks everyone!
Tracy
Carmella V. Greacen
In article <50sagu$f...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> msf...@ix.netcom.com(Marny F) writes:
>From: msf...@ix.netcom.com(Marny F)
>Subject: Re: Question about Higher Power
>Date: 7 Sep 1996 17:14:06 GMT
>Hi C!
Hi, Marny! Mashlomha? (I always get the gender wrong, but I THINK that's
"how are you" feminine gender?) in Hebrew.
Anyway . . . I've read everything from beginning Kabbalah texts to the Koran .
. . and what impresses me is we ALL seek "god" . . . in some form or other .
. . trouble is, so many of us insist "god" or higher power must take a
particular form . . . be a particular label. Jeez! what if "god" IS a tree?!
Oh . . . I have a joke: why do men like women who wear leather?
Because when they take off their clothes, they smell like a new car! :0
Carmella
Hugs to you, too . . .and where's my tape?
Marny F
In <word.509...@primenet.com> wo...@primenet.com (Carmella V. Greacen)
writes:
>
>Hi, Marny! Mashlomha? (I always get the gender wrong, but I THINK that's
>"how are you" feminine gender?) in Hebrew.
>
>Anyway . . . I've read everything from beginning Kabbalah texts to the Koran .
>. . and what impresses me is we ALL seek "god" . . . in some form or other .
>. . trouble is, so many of us insist "god" or higher power must take a
>particular form . . . be a particular label. Jeez! what if "god" IS a tree?!
>
>Oh . . . I have a joke: why do men like women who wear leather?
>Because when they take off their clothes, they smell like a new car! :0
>Carmella
>
>Hugs to you, too . . .and where's my tape?
Marny here! Guilty--of NOT sending tape...yet! <s> Sorry. So much
going on with reference to our moving to the west coast!!!
And tonight, I received a call that my brother is VERY ill with cancer
and I'm flying out in a few hours to Phoenix to be with him. He's
almost 6' and is down to 100 lbs.
BTW, I didn't post the thing-y about the "tree" ... but that's ok. I
usually use "chair" <s>.
I would appreciate some help from a.r.c.--21 seconds of silence... my
brother is 21 months older than I. Thanks.
Sad and hanging in...
Hug<s>,
Marny
Carmella V. Greacen
In article <510hnk$q...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> msf...@ix.netcom.com(Marny F) writes:
>From: msf...@ix.netcom.com(Marny F)
>Subject: Re: Question about Higher Power
>Marny here! Guilty--of NOT sending tape...yet! <s> Sorry. So much
>going on with reference to our moving to the west coast!!!
>And tonight, I received a call that my brother is VERY ill with cancer
>and I'm flying out in a few hours to Phoenix to be with him. He's
>almost 6' and is down to 100 lbs.
>BTW, I didn't post the thing-y about the "tree" ... but that's ok. I
>usually use "chair" <s>.
>I would appreciate some help from a.r.c.--21 seconds of silence... my
>brother is 21 months older than I. Thanks.
>Sad and hanging in...
>Hug<s>,
>Marny
Oh, my dear . . . I'll be praying for you both.
peace. Carmella
N.Dragicevic
the steps told me i could have a God of my OWN UNDERSTANDING.Whith an
infinate number of choices only an alcoholic could'nt find one to suit.
I got more and more miserable until ifinaly accepted that i
didn't know best and that maybe the steps were right.I began to believe
in god who loved me just the way i am today.
i finally began to get happy for the first time in my life.Things are
just as they are meant to be.Today i try to accept that.
accepting gods will for other people sometimes gets a little harder
i have to let others find thier own way to accept the will of a loving
god.Let go and let god and end the codependant crazies
with love to all nick
Richard Rawlings
N.Dragicevic wrote:
>
> TBrant1 wrote:
> >
> > I want to thank Stephan for asking and everyone else for their answers. I
> > am working the Steps for the first time and am stuck on Two. New to this
> > newsgroup and really like the variety of responses that can be gotten to a
> > question, even (especially?) the critical ones.
> >
> > I was resisting surrendering to something that felt as contrived and
> > culturally-defined as the "Gods" of most organized religions do to me.
> > Like I had to stand up and repent in a tent revival. Now I plan to try
> > finding and surrendering to my own good sense. That won't be easy,
> > either, but at least I'm not struggling with myself anymore (not about
> > THIS anyway).
> >
> > Thanks everyone!
> >
> >OWN UNDERSTANDING.
>Whith an infinate number of choices only an alcoholic could'nt find one to suit.
>[snip]
ROFLMAO! Amen! And Right Arm! I knew that I had been brought up in a
Toxic Religion as well as a Toxic Family. Somebody once told me, "God
is real... it's His Kids who aren't"
Eventually, I started spelling God, Gawd just to remind me that It was
The God (Gawd) of MY Understanding, not anybody elses.
> accepting gods will for other people sometimes gets a little harder
> i have to let others find thier own way to accept the will of a loving
> god.Let go and let god and end the codependant crazies
That wa the very hardest part. An ongoing realization that I cannot
control the effects of alcohol on any other person, as well as myself.
It's real higher power stuff.
>
> with love to all nick
Thanks Nick
Richard
LadyT182
<<The
concept of higher power is beyond me. I can't believe in a Christian
God, and to me, the universe seems totally random, chaotic and
meaningless.>>
It stipulates GOD as YOU understood him. So God can be Allah, Yahweh,
Yemaya, Gaia, The God/Goddess, Jesus, it's up to you. I'm *in the program*
and am not religious really, but do believe in spirituality.
Don't look at the list of 12 steps as a checklist. Go at it at YOUR own
pace.
Theresa