some freedom!
Tom
A child stretches her foot out of her mother's birth canal into free
American air, but then an abortionist plunges scissors into the back of
her head, sucks out her brains, crushes her skull, and sells her still
-living flesh on the black market for fetal tissue.
The State of Nebraska made it a crime to butcher partially born
children. But The Supreme Court actively struck down Nebraska's law,
extending the dreadful logic of Roe v. Wade to the very edge of
infanticide.
Although it is too late for these children, future children can still be
saved if Congress uses its constitutional power.
The first and last sentences of the 14th Amendment provide the answer to
this problem. The first sentence says, "All persons born or naturalized
in the United States ... are citizens of the United States and of the
State wherein they reside" (emphasis added). The last sentence says,
"The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate
legislation, the provisions of this article." Congress has the power to
protect persons who are born or naturalized in the United States. It is
time to use that power to protect persons
who are partially born.
It isn't quite as clear whether Congress has the power to define what it
means to be "born." But the question needs to be asked, and the Supreme
Court has lost any moral right to offer answers. The Court started down
a slippery slope in Roe when it dodged the question of when "life"
begins. It hit bottom today; according to
this Court, the "life" that the 14th Amendment protects doesn't begin
until the whole baby, not just a part of it, is out of the womb.
The Nebraska Legislature assumed that the Supreme Court, confronted with
the moral horror of partial birth abortion, would finally stop the
deadly logic of Roe. But lower court judges had already paved the way
for the Supreme Court. Judge Posner, of the Seventh Circuit, wrote: "The
uninformed thought the D & X procedure gratuitously cruel, akin to
infanticide; they didn't realize that the only difference between it and
the methods of late-term abortion that are conceded all round to be
constitutionally privileged is which way the fetus's feet are pointing
(Hope Clinic v. Ryan, 195 F.3d 857, 880).
Nebraska conceded that it could not constitutionally prohibit
partial-birth abortions before viability, and argued that the law would
not be used in such cases. I believe that was a mistake. The "way the
fetus's feet are pointing" may not make an abortion more or less
gruesome, but it does make a fetus more or less "born," because a part
of the fetus is inarguably born in a partial-birth abortion.
The 14th Amendment protects every person born in the United States,
whether or not that person is born "viable." The hopelessly premature
newborns in our hospitals are not chopped up for spare parts the way
that aborted fetuses are. They are anesthetized against the pain they
so clearly experience; they are cared for tenderly; and they are
protected by the law as they live, die, and are buried with dignity. It
is birth, not viability, that matters to these children.
Viability is a medical term, not a legal one. As medical technology
changes, so does the age at which a premature infant can live. The
Nebraska law failed to distinguish between "viable" and "nonviable" --
how could it? -- so the court struck down the law. When Roe welded
ever-changing medical science into national law, it effectively
prohibited states from ever protecting any unborn child.
But Roe doesn't keep Congress from protecting born children, including
partially born children. The first
sentence of the 14th Amendment is about birth, not viability, and birth
is a legal term. Black's Law Dictionary defines the constitutional term
"born" as the "act of being delivered or expelled from (the)
mother's body, whether or not (the) placenta has been separated or (the)
cord cut." As any parent knows, this is an "act," and often a long one
-- not just a moment in time. Congress can and should draft legislation
that defines "birth" as the process that it is, and protect the new
citizen from the earliest possible moment. The process of birth begins
when any portion of a living fetus emerges from the mother's birth
canal, and it ends when the umbilical cord is cut. Congress should use
the power conferred by the last sentence of the 14th Amendment to
protect the citizens defined by the first sentence.
The federal partial birth abortion bills offered so far have relied for
their authority on Congress' power to "regulate commerce ... among the
several States." While late-term abortion certainly is commercial in
nature, and there is even grisly evidence of a black market in living
fetal tissue, I have always felt that Congress should use its power to
protect people, not its power to protect commerce. Despite today's
ruling by the Supreme Court, Congress still has the power to protect the
nameless infant reaching out for life from her mother's womb. It's time
to use that power.
Alan Ferris
>"A SUPREME DECISION HAS BEEN MADE"
>
>A child stretches her foot out of her mother's birth canal into free
>American air, but then an abortionist plunges scissors into the back of
>her head, sucks out her brains, crushes her skull, and sells her still
>-living flesh on the black market for fetal tissue.
Got it wrong in the first paragraph, so the rest is going to be as
worthless as the rest.
How is it these people are unable to get the story straight,
especially when it is on almost every news server?
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suddenly, in a microsm of moment,
Unknown - earthbound me - was released
Into a moment where time stood still,
And I knew then who God was...it was me,
And I knew who made him...you. Spike Milligan
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit me: http://www3.mistral.co.uk/xalan/
ICQ UIN: 12811297
duke LeBourgeois
wrote:
>"Tom" <tju...@ameritech.net> wrote ...
>>"A SUPREME DECISION HAS BEEN MADE"
>>
>>A child stretches her foot out of her mother's birth canal into free
>>American air, but then an abortionist plunges scissors into the back of
>>her head, sucks out her brains, crushes her skull, and sells her still
>>-living flesh on the black market for fetal tissue.
>Got it wrong in the first paragraph, so the rest is going to be as
>worthless as the rest.
Care to enlighten us, ferris. He described a partial birth abortion
exactly. What more do you want. The only thing that is really
worthless is your worthless opinion.
>How is it these people are unable to get the story straight,
>especially when it is on almost every news server?
Why don't you tell us what is wrong with his story. It is an accurate
story of a pba.
duke
Luha
news:395d093b...@news.earthlink.net...
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:28:00 +0100, Alan Ferris
<xa...@mistral.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >"Tom" <tju...@ameritech.net> wrote ...
> >>
> >>A child stretches her foot out of her mother's birth
canal into free
> >>American air, but then an abortionist plunges scissors
into the back of
> >>her head, sucks out her brains, crushes her skull, and
sells her still
> >>-living flesh on the black market for fetal tissue.
>
to be as
> >worthless as the rest.
>
> Care to enlighten us, ferris. He described a partial
birth abortion
> exactly. What more do you want. The only thing that is
really
> worthless is your worthless opinion.
>
description either? Maybe you and your fellow medical
wordlers can enlighten us even more. Tell us exactly why a
woman would carry a fetus she wants aborted to term. Go
ahead, shit4brains, try at least.
> >How is it these people are unable to get the story
straight,
> >especially when it is on almost every news server?
>
> Why don't you tell us what is wrong with his story. It is
an accurate
> story of a pba.
>
Go to the AMA website and do a search for "partial birth
abortion". If you can read, you might learn something.
> duke
>
>
>
>
>
>
duke
"Luha" <s_du...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Gee, puke-o, why is it the AMA doesn't agree with the
description either? Maybe you and your fellow medical
wordlers can enlighten us even more. Tell us exactly why a
woman would carry a fetus she wants aborted to term. Go
ahead, shit4brains, try at least.
They do agree. ferris is yet to let us know what he finds wrong with
the post.
You really don't know what a pba is, do you sue?
I'll give you a clue. It's found in the middle initial - no
restrictions. Now go figure it out.
> Go to the AMA website and do a search for "partial birth
abortion". If you can read, you might learn something.
I already know what it is.
And just when are you going to learn to speak civilly to others. I
offered ferris a chance to agree with me to stop the namecalling. And
he refused.
How about you?
duke
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Darklady
duke <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8jkre7$1tl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <slqi30r...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Luha" <s_du...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Gee, puke-o, why is it the AMA doesn't agree with the
> description either? Maybe you and your fellow medical
> wordlers can enlighten us even more. Tell us exactly why a
> woman would carry a fetus she wants aborted to term. Go
> ahead, shit4brains, try at least.
>
> They do agree. ferris is yet to let us know what he finds wrong with
> the post.
>
> You really don't know what a pba is, do you sue?
That's because it's not a medical term. It's an anti-abortion term
that's become common since it's easier to remember than the actual medical
name of the procedure.
And the AMA does not agree with you, Duke. It does not use the term you
use nor define it as you define it.
> I'll give you a clue. It's found in the middle initial - no
> restrictions. Now go figure it out.
The fetus is not "born" merely because part of its body is exposed
during the procedure. And frankly, although it's definitely a graphic
procedure it's not the most upsetting visually. It's a far safer procedure
for the woman (not that this interests you, of course) and swifter for the
fetus.
> > Go to the AMA website and do a search for "partial birth
> abortion". If you can read, you might learn something.
>
> I already know what it is.
Of course you do. You and your kind invented the term and make up its
meaning as you go along. But you won't find that term on the AMA website,
which is Luha's point, Duke.
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
Luha
news:8jkre7$1tl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <slqi30r...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Luha" <s_du...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Gee, puke-o, why is it the AMA doesn't agree with the
> description either? Maybe you and your fellow medical
> wordlers can enlighten us even more. Tell us exactly why
a
> woman would carry a fetus she wants aborted to term. Go
> ahead, shit4brains, try at least.
>
> They do agree. ferris is yet to let us know what he finds
wrong with
> the post.
I see that you are now responding to my posts directly, even
after claiming that you had killfiled me. Another lie.
Wanna admit it this time, like the man you claim to be?
Anyway, puke, no the AMA does not agree. If you had gone to
their website and done the search, you would have seen that
the members are in agreement that the term "partial birth
abortion" is merely an alarmist term coined by the
anti-choice extremists. It refers to any abortion performed
during the third trimester. Sorry, puke, you lose again.
>
> You really don't know what a pba is, do you sue?
>
Apparently, I have a better idea than you do. Why do YOU
never question the people who lead you around by the nose?
> I'll give you a clue. It's found in the middle initial -
no
> restrictions. Now go figure it out.
>
That's where the big lie is, puko. There is no birth
involved. If there were, it would be illegal. Check your
facts. Take more lithium before you do, though. Helps with
that nasty bipolar stuff you suffer from.
> > Go to the AMA website and do a search for "partial birth
> abortion". If you can read, you might learn something.
>
> I already know what it is.
>
Such a scholar. BTW, no you don't. Or are you claiming to
know more than the surgeons that perform this service? I
remember one of my cousin's know-it-all girlfriends arguing
vehemently over a question of tooth formation with one of my
uncles. It was amusing. She didn't realize he was the
president of the local dental association. A bit like you,
puke.
> And just when are you going to learn to speak civilly to
others.
I thought I explained to you before that trolls had no
rights. I don't respect you because you don't act like a
human. Why should I dignify your petty existence with the
act of courtesy, you dumb fuck?
I
> offered ferris a chance to agree with me to stop the
namecalling. And
> he refused.
I also refuse then. I like Alan. I don't like you. I will
never call Alan a name but you are a mongrel (actually, not
even that as I like dogs).
>
> How about you?
>
Reply above. Eat shit and die.
duke
"Darklady" <dark...@darklady.com> wrote:
> The fetus is not "born" merely because part of its body is exposed
during the procedure. And frankly, although it's definitely a graphic
procedure it's not the most upsetting visually. It's a far safer
procedure for the woman (not that this interests you, of course) and
swifter for the fetus.
So when is it "born"? A big toe? A tongue?
It is butchery in the first degree. God will make the last judgement.
> Of course you do. You and your kind invented the term and make up
its meaning as you go along. But you won't find that term on the AMA
website, which is Luha's point, Duke.
Legalized shameful murder in the first degree. God will have the last
judgement.
duke
"Luha" <s_du...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I see that you are now responding to my posts directly, even
after claiming that you had killfiled me.
One thing I never did is killfill you. I told you that before. I'm
telling you again today.
Can't you read English?
> Another lie. Wanna admit it this time, like the man you claim to be?
Admit what, susan?
> Anyway, puke, no the AMA does not agree. If you had gone to
their website and done the search, you would have seen that
the members are in agreement that the term "partial birth
abortion" is merely an alarmist term coined by the
anti-choice extremists. It refers to any abortion performed
during the third trimester. Sorry, puke, you lose again.
Sorry sue, but a pba is murder in the first degree.
> > You really don't know what a pba is, do you sue?
> Apparently, I have a better idea than you do. Why do YOU
never question the people who lead you around by the nose?
I call you down all the time.
> > I'll give you a clue. It's found in the middle initial -
no restrictions. Now go figure it out.
> That's where the big lie is, puko. There is no birth
involved. If there were, it would be illegal. Check your
facts. Take more lithium before you do, though. Helps with
that nasty bipolar stuff you suffer from.
It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the baby in
the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains out,
and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
The most disgusting thing a parent can do. Murder for his/her own
confort and convenience.
> Such a scholar. BTW, no you don't.
BTW, yes I do.
> Or are you claiming to know more than the surgeons that perform this
service? I remember one of my cousin's know-it-all girlfriends arguing
vehemently over a question of tooth formation with one of my
uncles. It was amusing. She didn't realize he was the
president of the local dental association. A bit like you,
puke.
Still can't carry on a conversation without insulting people, can you
sue?
> I thought I explained to you before that trolls had no
rights. I don't respect you because you don't act like a
human. Why should I dignify your petty existence with the
act of courtesy, you dumb fuck?
Writing your own rules now. You butcher babies and actually say I
don't act human. You have no dignity - don't worry about losing it.
> I also refuse then. I like Alan. I don't like you. I will
never call Alan a name but you are a mongrel (actually, not
even that as I like dogs).
I'm glad you don't like me. I don't like people like you to like me.
> Reply above. Eat shit and die.
Like I said before. You lack the class to carry on a conversation.
Darklady
<snip>
> It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the baby in
> the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains out,
> and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
>
> The most disgusting thing a parent can do. Murder for his/her own
> confort and convenience.
You need to get out more, Duke.
"The most disgusting thing a parent can do" is give birth to a child and
then systematically emotionall, physically and/or mentally abuse that child.
That's more hideous, disgusting and immoral than any number of painless
(if disturbing) fetal deaths.
Child abuse is the torture, perversion and murder of the mind and soul
of a person. It affects them for all their life, no matter how long that may
last. And the abuse also affects their partners, friends and children.
Abortion pales in comparison to the toll that child abuse takes on lives.
There are things worse than death, Duke.
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
St. Jackanapes
In alt.recovery.catholicism, Darklady said...
> duke <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8jr6mc$a46$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> <snip>
>
> > It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the baby in
> > the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains out,
> > and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
> >
> > The most disgusting thing a parent can do. Murder for his/her own
> > confort and convenience.
>
> You need to get out more, Duke.
> "The most disgusting thing a parent can do" is give birth to a child and
> then systematically emotionall, physically and/or mentally abuse that child.
>
That's how we get the Ed's, Duke's and Adam J's of the world.
--
St. Jackanapes
----------------------------
http://pray.at/st.jackanapes
http://laugh.at/priestess.lesion
"Yes, it is true. I can longer subject myself to this immorality.
(I just got a summer job that pays $15 per hour.)"
-Sean "Adam J" Conley, Spanked on July/08/00
Karen H Jarvis
> the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains out,
> and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
>
delivered head first?
Karen
> The most disgusting thing a parent can do. Murder for his/her own
> confort and convenience.
>
Edward Croteau
I saw somewhere , where many doctors are very fearfull of preforming such
abortions and are afraid of going to jail.
the issues involved are still extremely controversal...... and much back and
forth is going on .......yet......
One day all will realise that life is most preciouse....... and not just
some throw-away commodity.
Ed......................(OGT)
Edward Croteau
St. Jackanapes <Jesus.H...@hellmail.com> wrote in message
news:8js70s$d1a$8...@dosa.alt.net...
>
> In alt.recovery.catholicism, Darklady said...> > news:8jr6mc$a46$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the baby in
> > > the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains out,
> > > and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
> > >
> > > confort and convenience.
> >
> > "The most disgusting thing a parent can do" is give birth to a child
and
> > then systematically emotionall, physically and/or mentally abuse that
child.
> >
>
> That's how we get the Ed's, Duke's and Adam J's of the world.
I dont think your in any position to be making those types of judgments or
assertions......
What happened when say , the world was introduced by the likes of filthyness
like you and your henchmen/women.?
Ed............................(OGT)
duke
St. Jackanapes <Jesus.H...@hellmail.com> wrote:
> > > The most disgusting thing a parent can do. Murder for his/her own
confort and convenience.
> > You need to get out more, Duke.
"The most disgusting thing a parent can do" is give birth to a child and
then systematically emotionall, physically and/or mentally abuse that
child.
> That's how we get the Ed's, Duke's and Adam J's of the world.
Wrong. The worst and most disgusting and damning thing a person can do
is kill it's own unborn for it's own comfort and convenience.
duke
duke
"Karen H Jarvis" <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:
> How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's are
delivered head first?
Karen
I'm glad you asked that question, kj.
In a pba, the abortionist first turns the baby so that it comes out
feet first. It "delivers" all of the baby except it's head, stabs a
pair of scissors into the base of the neck, sucks the brains out,
crushes the head, and guess what, delivers a poor and unfortunaely dead
baby.
Wherein mommie and daddie go home and cry and plan the funeral for
their poor baby that was dead at birth.
Sick people. Animals. Lowest form of life. Disgusting people.
Darklady
Edward Croteau <granp...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:bWn85.29163$NP5.8...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
That won't happen until people such as most involved in the
anti-abortion movement realize that 1) that includes the lives of the women
having the abortions and the doctors performing them and 2) by claiming that
those who support abortion rights consider life to be "some throw-away
commodity" one makes it impossible for the statement to ever come true
because it is insulting and does not acknowledge the many reasons women
choose an abortion or the difficulty involved in making that decision.
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
Darklady
>
> St. Jackanapes <Jesus.H...@hellmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8js70s$d1a$8...@dosa.alt.net...
> >
> > In alt.recovery.catholicism, Darklady said...
> >
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the baby in
> > > > the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains
out,
> > > > and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
> > > >
> > > > confort and convenience.
> > >
> > > You need to get out more, Duke.
> > > "The most disgusting thing a parent can do" is give birth to a
child
> and
> > > then systematically emotionall, physically and/or mentally abuse that
> child.
> > >
> >
> > That's how we get the Ed's, Duke's and Adam J's of the world.
>
> assertions......
> What happened when say , the world was introduced by the likes of
filthyness
> like you and your henchmen/women.?
>
> Ed............................(OGT)
You actually may have a point, Ed-Steve. People who have been abused as
children aren't the only ones who can be deeply disturbed. Neither St. Jack
nor I really know if any of you guys were abused as kids. You might just be
bad from the beginning. It would certainly explain your obsession with the
concept of Original Sin.
One of the world's more famous serial killers, Jeffrey Dahmer, grew up
in a wonderful and loving family. His folks were married and apparently
unremarkable. They loved their son and treated him well. He was never
physically abused or emotionally mistreated by his family and apparently had
normal relationships with schoolmates, workers and others. But Jeffrey,
perhaps like you and Duke and Adam J (I know nothing of your upbringings) he
simply had something *wrong* inside. It bothered him quite a bit, his love
of violence and the arousal he felt from it. He knew it was wrong but did it
anyway, keeping it a secret. He started with small animals, as violent
psychopaths often do. And he didn't like porn, Ed-Steve. Not at all. It
didn't arouse him. It bored him. So he didn't read it. You'd have liked
that, Ed-Steve.
What did Jeffrey like? Hunting magazines. True Crime magazines. Violent
magazines. Nothing smutty about them. No cussing. No naughty body parts.
Just good ole American articles and stories about killing things, about
people who'd killed or hurt one another. Jeffrey liked those. They gave him
an erection.
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
Edward Croteau
Darklady <dark...@darklady.com> wrote in message
news:39621d3c$1...@news.nwlink.com...
Are you saying, that's why the jackle has the obsession to put up smutty
pictures and call it a webb site.....?
Or how about that other one there with the exceeding need to show pictures
of children tossing the bird... Would that
come under this same reasoning...........?
AND why dont we see YOU objecting to any of this junk....?
Ed.......................(OGT)
> --
> Darklady
> http://www.darklady.com
>
>
Edward Croteau
Then bring on your [list] that we may compare notes......
Ed...................(OGT)
>
> --
> Darklady
> http://www.darklady.com
>
>
Alan Ferris
>> the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains out,
>> and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
>>
>delivered head first?
They do not. They deliver a arm into the birth canal (vagina) and
this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
describe this procedure correctly.
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When the only colour is black -
the only sound
the broken bell
THEN talk to me about why. Spike Milligan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Ferris
>In article <395e0...@news.nwlink.com>,
> "Darklady" <dark...@darklady.com> wrote:
>
>> The fetus is not "born" merely because part of its body is exposed
>during the procedure. And frankly, although it's definitely a graphic
>procedure it's not the most upsetting visually. It's a far safer
>procedure for the woman (not that this interests you, of course) and
>swifter for the fetus.
>
>So when is it "born"? A big toe? A tongue?
>
>It is butchery in the first degree. God will make the last judgement.
Is a baby born when it is still in the vagina? The babies arm is born
into the birth canal (vagina) Not out of the vagina, for that to
happen the head would be already past the cervix and you would be in
the middle of one horrendous birth!
But do not things like the real procedure stop YOU Duke. Even the
sites that are against the practice at least tell it right. It is
only you and that other chap who seem to be confused.
>> Of course you do. You and your kind invented the term and make up
>its meaning as you go along. But you won't find that term on the AMA
>website, which is Luha's point, Duke.
>
>Legalized shameful murder in the first degree. God will have the last
>judgement.
So if the child is already dead it is murder? It is sometimes
performed on foetuses that die in the womb, but you people never want
to talk about those! Do you realise what the risks are to a woman
carrying a dead baby for another 3 months. Do you have any idea what
the fluid does to that corpse?
I am not saying that all are done for this (I know your ways Duke).
But some are, shame you people want to ban those to! Have you
bothered to learn why abortions have to be performed on ectopic
pregnancies. Have you bothered to read up on the many reasons that
the woman may need an abortion for medical reasons and not for
convenience. Would you care to show how many you can name?
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Behold, behold,
The Lamb of God
As it skips and hops.
I know that soon
The Lamb of God
Will be the Lamb of chops Spike Milligan
Karen H Jarvis
> In article <Sal85.15411$wB1.1...@news3.cableinet.net>,
> "Karen H Jarvis" <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's are
> delivered head first?
>
> I'm glad you asked that question, kj.
>
> In a pba, the abortionist first turns the baby so that it comes out
> feet first. It "delivers" all of the baby except it's head, stabs a
> pair of scissors into the base of the neck, sucks the brains out,
> crushes the head, and guess what, delivers a poor and unfortunaely dead
> baby.
>
> Wherein mommie and daddie go home and cry and plan the funeral for
> their poor baby that was dead at birth.
>
> Sick people. Animals. Lowest form of life. Disgusting people.
>
Karen
Karen H Jarvis
"Alan Ferris" <xa...@mistral.co.uk> wrote.....
> "Karen H Jarvis" <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote ...
> >delivered head first?
>
> this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
> read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
> facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
> describe this procedure correctly.
>
Karen
>
> --
> Alan Ferris
> eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
> EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> When the only colour is black -
> the only sound
> the broken bell
> THEN talk to me about why. Spike Milligan
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Darklady
> > >
> > > St. Jackanapes <Jesus.H...@hellmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:8js70s$d1a$8...@dosa.alt.net...
> > > >
> > > > In alt.recovery.catholicism, Darklady said...
> > > >
> > > > > news:8jr6mc$a46$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the
baby
> in
> > > > > > the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's
brains
> > out,
> > > > > > and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
> > > > > >
What are you talking about? Who is "the jackle" and what does it have to
do with Dahmer?
If you're talking about St. Jack then he has every right to create a web
site and put images on it. What you'd described is NOT child pornography,
however. And that is what this is about. YOU claimed St. Jack was a child
pornographer and that the image was pornographic. It is not child
pornography. It is a vulgar image but not pornographic.
Stop dodging the issue, you coward.
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
Darklady
> confort and convenience.
>
> > > You need to get out more, Duke.
> "The most disgusting thing a parent can do" is give birth to a child and
> then systematically emotionall, physically and/or mentally abuse that
> child.
>
> > That's how we get the Ed's, Duke's and Adam J's of the world.
>
> is kill it's own unborn for it's own comfort and convenience.
>
> duke
You are a morally bankrupt man who has clearly never spent any time
trying to help someone who's suffered from the deep wounds of child abuse.
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
Darklady
Alan Ferris <xa...@mistral.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vr54ms8jq9fv0jd1t...@4ax.com...
> >> the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains out,
> >> and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
> >>
> >delivered head first?
>
> They do not. They deliver a arm into the birth canal (vagina) and
> this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
> read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
> facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
> describe this procedure correctly.
What he described would be very dangerous to the woman (which would suit
him fine, I'm sure). It makes no sense, either. I mean, think about it!
Especially since folks like Duke want us to believe we're talking about
great big bouncy cuddly babies. Imagine turning one of those inside a woman
and pulling it out breech? Be real. The man has no understanding of a
woman's anatomy -- any reason for heterosexual or bisexual men to have some
experience with women.
There's no question that it's a disturbing procedure and that's one
reason why so few of them are performed each year. However, just because
more of the procedure is seen and because it affects us so viscerally (so to
speak) does not mean it's a particularly inhumane procedure. The alternative
has often been to essential dismember the fetus inside of the uterus, thus
risking serious damage to the woman if a bone tears her tissue and, frankly,
being much more brutal and long-lasting trauma to the fetus and fetal
tissues. It's a safer, cleaner, quicker and more humane procedure for the
patient and the fetus. I do not know how the procedure affects those who
perform it.
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
Alan Ferris
>> In article <395e0...@news.nwlink.com>,
>> "Darklady" <dark...@darklady.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The fetus is not "born" merely because part of its body is exposed
>> during the procedure. And frankly, although it's definitely a graphic
>> procedure it's not the most upsetting visually. It's a far safer
>> procedure for the woman (not that this interests you, of course) and
>> swifter for the fetus.
>>
>> So when is it "born"? A big toe? A tongue?
>>
>> It is butchery in the first degree. God will make the last judgement.
>>
>> its meaning as you go along. But you won't find that term on the AMA
>> website, which is Luha's point, Duke.
>>
>> Legalized shameful murder in the first degree. God will have the last
>> judgement.
>>
>
>I saw somewhere , where many doctors are very fearfull of preforming such
>abortions and are afraid of going to jail.
>
>the issues involved are still extremely controversal...... and much back and
>forth is going on .......yet......
>
>One day all will realise that life is most preciouse....... and not just
>some throw-away commodity.
>
Trust Steve/Ed to once again show his stupidity of the information.
Dr's were scared that the legislation going through would make all
late abortions open to a charge of murder. The law trying to be
passed was to vague to be specific and therefore left Dr's open to
prosecutions for something that the law was never intended for. That
is why the supreme court rejected it! Try reading rather than what
you seem to do!
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Behold, behold,
The Lamb of God
As it skips and hops.
I know that soon
The Lamb of God
Will be the Lamb of chops Spike Milligan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Ferris
>In article <Sal85.15411$wB1.1...@news3.cableinet.net>,
> "Karen H Jarvis" <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's are
>delivered head first?
>
>I'm glad you asked that question, kj.
>
>In a pba, the abortionist first turns the baby so that it comes out
>feet first. It "delivers" all of the baby except it's head, stabs a
>pair of scissors into the base of the neck, sucks the brains out,
>crushes the head, and guess what, delivers a poor and unfortunaely dead
>baby.
Wrong. The arm is delivered into the birth canal, this brings the
head next to the cervix.
>Wherein mommie and daddie go home and cry and plan the funeral for
>their poor baby that was dead at birth.
>
>Sick people. Animals. Lowest form of life. Disgusting people.
Yes read my previous post on the people like you!
duke
xa...@mistral.co.uk wrote:
> >How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's are
delivered head first?
> They do not. They deliver a arm into the birth canal (vagina) and
this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
describe this procedure correctly.
Sorry to pop your bubble, ferris, but you are pretty ignorant as to
what is going on.
They first turn the baby to deliver the feet first and then the rest of
the body but not the head.
That's so they can jam a pair of scissors into the baby's skull to kill
it.
It takes a disgusting, sick man to believe in pb abortions.
Alan Ferris
>>
>> That won't happen until people such as most involved in the
>> anti-abortion movement realize that 1) that includes the lives of the
>women
>> having the abortions and the doctors performing them and 2) by claiming
>that
>> those who support abortion rights consider life to be "some throw-away
>> commodity" one makes it impossible for the statement to ever come true
>> because it is insulting and does not acknowledge the many reasons women
>> choose an abortion or the difficulty involved in making that decision.
>
>Then bring on your [list] that we may compare notes......
>
One that is causing debate already in the Catholic church. Ectopic
pregnancies. It is very, very rare that an ectopic pregnancy can go
to term. In almost every case if it is left it will kill the mother,
which would kill the child anyway. What would you say in that
situation. Apparently the church still forbids abortion for it. But
many catholics have had the abortion and been supported by the
churches and congregation.
What about when the baby does not develop a brain and is effectively
dead in the womb? Do you believe in forcing all those mothers to
carry the baby to term? Knowing that for the last four to six months
that all they have is a lump of tissue?
What about mothers where the baby dies in utero? Do you know what
happens and the risks involved if that baby is not removed?
I had the sad experience of escorting a good friend past protesters to
the clinic for the above reason. This woman had been given the tragic
news that her baby was dead. She steeled herself for its removal.
What was she greeted with, a pack of wolves baying and calling her
murderer! That is why I will never support the anti-abortion lobby.
THey are a pack of rabid animals that have no REAL care for human
life. I am glad to say the lady made a full recover in the end. But
she was not helped by those people!
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suddenly, in a microsm of moment,
Unknown - earthbound me - was released
Into a moment where time stood still,
And I knew then who God was...it was me,
And I knew who made him...you. Spike Milligan
duke
xa...@mistral.co.uk wrote:
> Is a baby born when it is still in the vagina? The babies arm is born
into the birth canal (vagina) Not out of the vagina, for that to
happen the head would be already past the cervix and you would be in
the middle of one horrendous birth!
Don't you get it yet ferris. All of the baby is outside the mother
except the head. That's when they jam a pair of scissors into it's
skull to kill it.
Therefore it's not murder in the 1st degree punishable by death because
the head wasn't delivered yet.
> So if the child is already dead it is murder? It is sometimes
performed on foetuses that die in the womb, but you people never want
to talk about those! Do you realise what the risks are to a woman
carrying a dead baby for another 3 months. Do you have any idea what
the fluid does to that corpse?
Don't you understand that pba's are legal at full term. Sickly put, 1
undelivered baby head short of 1st degree murder.
> I am not saying that all are done for this (I know your ways Duke).
But some are, shame you people want to ban those to! Have you
bothered to learn why abortions have to be performed on ectopic
pregnancies. Have you bothered to read up on the many reasons that
the woman may need an abortion for medical reasons and not for
convenience. Would you care to show how many you can name?
As far as I'm concerned, abortion is murder - the butchery of one's own
unborn baby for one's convenience and benefit. Women may have a civil,
legal right to one in some countries. But God is not going to be
pleased. And God doesn't run a democracy.
Alan Ferris
>
>"Alan Ferris" <xa...@mistral.co.uk> wrote.....
>> "Karen H Jarvis" <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote ...
>> >delivered head first?
>>
>> They do not. They deliver a arm into the birth canal (vagina) and
>> this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
>> read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
>> facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
>> describe this procedure correctly.
>>
Not hard to find the 'Facts' rather than what Duke tries to peddle!
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Behold, behold,
The Lamb of God
As it skips and hops.
I know that soon
The Lamb of God
Will be the Lamb of chops Spike Milligan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Ferris
>him fine, I'm sure). It makes no sense, either. I mean, think about it!
>Especially since folks like Duke want us to believe we're talking about
>great big bouncy cuddly babies. Imagine turning one of those inside a woman
>and pulling it out breech? Be real. The man has no understanding of a
>woman's anatomy -- any reason for heterosexual or bisexual men to have some
>experience with women.
> There's no question that it's a disturbing procedure and that's one
>reason why so few of them are performed each year. However, just because
>more of the procedure is seen and because it affects us so viscerally (so to
>speak) does not mean it's a particularly inhumane procedure. The alternative
>has often been to essential dismember the fetus inside of the uterus, thus
>risking serious damage to the woman if a bone tears her tissue and, frankly,
>being much more brutal and long-lasting trauma to the fetus and fetal
>tissues. It's a safer, cleaner, quicker and more humane procedure for the
>patient and the fetus. I do not know how the procedure affects those who
>perform it.
I was waiting for an explanation of how they found room with the
babies body in the way! How big does the fool think the vagina is!
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suddenly, in a microsm of moment,
Unknown - earthbound me - was released
Into a moment where time stood still,
And I knew then who God was...it was me,
And I knew who made him...you. Spike Milligan
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Snowden
>In article <slt5odk...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Luha" <s_du...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Anyway, puke, no the AMA does not agree. If you had gone to
>their website and done the search, you would have seen that
>the members are in agreement that the term "partial birth
>abortion" is merely an alarmist term coined by the
>anti-choice extremists. It refers to any abortion performed
>during the third trimester. Sorry, puke, you lose again.
>
>Sorry sue, but a pba is murder in the first degree.
A D&E or D&X? Which one is it? The Supreme Court doesn't think so. And
when is a baby born? Is it when the feet come out? Is it when the
entire body comes out? Is it when the butt comes out? Please tell us,
oh knowledgable one.
>
>> > You really don't know what a pba is, do you sue?
>
>> Apparently, I have a better idea than you do. Why do YOU
>never question the people who lead you around by the nose?
So you do NOT know what a pba is? You did not say yes nor did you
explain yourself clearly.
>
>I call you down all the time.
>
>> > I'll give you a clue. It's found in the middle initial -
>no restrictions. Now go figure it out.
>
>> That's where the big lie is, puko. There is no birth
>involved. If there were, it would be illegal. Check your
>facts. Take more lithium before you do, though. Helps with
>that nasty bipolar stuff you suffer from.
>
>It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the baby in
>the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains out,
>and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
If it is dead, than how can it be murder? If a baby dies inside the
womb through natural causes, is that then murder?
>
>The most disgusting thing a parent can do. Murder for his/her own
>confort and convenience.
>
>> Such a scholar. BTW, no you don't.
>
>BTW, yes I do.
Kiddies, kiddies, stop this playground attitude.
>
>> Or are you claiming to know more than the surgeons that perform this
>service? I remember one of my cousin's know-it-all girlfriends arguing
>vehemently over a question of tooth formation with one of my
>uncles. It was amusing. She didn't realize he was the
>president of the local dental association. A bit like you,
>puke.
>
>Still can't carry on a conversation without insulting people, can you
>sue?
You avoided answering the question again. Nice try, but we can all see
that you fucked up again. And you said that you don't insult anyone.
=============================
Redondo Beach, California
USA
Edward Croteau
> > > >
> > > > St. Jackanapes <Jesus.H...@hellmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:8js70s$d1a$8...@dosa.alt.net...
> > > > >
> > > > > In alt.recovery.catholicism, Darklady said...
> > > > >
> > > > > > news:8jr6mc$a46$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the
> baby
> > in
> > > > > > > the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's
> brains
> > > out,
> > > > > > > and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
> > > > > > >
> own
> > > > > > > confort and convenience.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The most disgusting thing a parent can do" is give birth to
a
> > > child
> > > > and
> > > > > > then systematically emotionall, physically and/or mentally abuse
> > that
> > > > child.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That's how we get the Ed's, Duke's and Adam J's of the world.
> > > >
Before you start on one of your missguided rants, you should get it
straightned out who is who.....
Dont they teach you that in writers school ?
Ed....................(OGT)
>
> --
> Darklady
> http://www.darklady.com
>
>
Edward Croteau
> > In article <8js70s$d1a$8...@dosa.alt.net>,
> > St. Jackanapes <Jesus.H...@hellmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > confort and convenience.
> >
> > > > You need to get out more, Duke.
> > "The most disgusting thing a parent can do" is give birth to a child and
> > then systematically emotionall, physically and/or mentally abuse that
> > child.
> >
> > > That's how we get the Ed's, Duke's and Adam J's of the world.
> >
> > is kill it's own unborn for it's own comfort and convenience.
> >
> > duke
>
> You are a morally bankrupt man who has clearly never spent any time
> trying to help someone who's suffered from the deep wounds of child abuse.
Yet why is it that all I see you doing is covering up for the vile internet
smut.... and those that crawl in here from afj with it.......?
Now I feel it is once again time to shout out! WHERE IS THE RECOVERY ! ?
ISNT THIS SUPPOSED TO BE A RECOVERY GROUP ?
Ed......................(OGT)
>
> --
> Darklady
> http://www.darklady.com
>
>
>
Edward Croteau
Karen H Jarvis <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:%Rr85.15989$wB1.2...@news3.cableinet.net...
> >
> > > How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's are
> > delivered head first?
> >
> > I'm glad you asked that question, kj.
> >
> > In a pba, the abortionist first turns the baby so that it comes out
> > feet first. It "delivers" all of the baby except it's head, stabs a
> > pair of scissors into the base of the neck, sucks the brains out,
> > crushes the head, and guess what, delivers a poor and unfortunaely dead
> > baby.
> >
> > their poor baby that was dead at birth.
> >
> > Sick people. Animals. Lowest form of life. Disgusting people.
> >
>
> Karen
Tut-tut tut there gal.... carefull about that, Must I remind you how you
reffere to [certain] HUMAN BEINGS in here.
Ed.........................(OGT)
Darklady
True. In your case, you're a human being and a vegetable.
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
Darklady
> > "Darklady" <dark...@darklady.com> wrote ...
> > >
> > >Alan Ferris <xa...@mistral.co.uk> wrote in message
> > >news:vr54ms8jq9fv0jd1t...@4ax.com...
> > >> >> In article <slt5odk...@corp.supernews.com>,
> > >> >> "Luha" <s_du...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> after claiming that you had killfiled me.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> One thing I never did is killfill you. I told you that before.
I'm
> > >> >> telling you again today.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Can't you read English?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > Another lie. Wanna admit it this time, like the man you claim to
> be?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Admit what, susan?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> their website and done the search, you would have seen that
> > >> >> the members are in agreement that the term "partial birth
> > >> >> abortion" is merely an alarmist term coined by the
> > >> >> anti-choice extremists. It refers to any abortion performed
> > >> >> during the third trimester. Sorry, puke, you lose again.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Sorry sue, but a pba is murder in the first degree.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > Apparently, I have a better idea than you do. Why do YOU
> > >> >> never question the people who lead you around by the nose?
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > > I'll give you a clue. It's found in the middle initial -
> > >> >> no restrictions. Now go figure it out.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > That's where the big lie is, puko. There is no birth
> > >> >> involved. If there were, it would be illegal. Check your
> > >> >> facts. Take more lithium before you do, though. Helps with
> > >> >> that nasty bipolar stuff you suffer from.
> > >> >>
in
> > >> >> the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains
> out,
> > >> >> and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
> > >> >>
> > >> >delivered head first?
> > >>
> extended.....with those tools the doctors have.
> Im surprised they dont utilise plumbers tools just for convienance.....
>
> Ed..................(OGT)
Oh, good heavens, Ed-Steve. The uterus is not something you just spin a
fetus around in like it's on a lazy susan.
Yet another reason I doubt you're the father of even one child, let
alone nearly 20.
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
Darklady
>
> Dave Snowden <dvs...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:vni3msgj644ccqk2v...@4ax.com...
> > > "Luha" <s_du...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> Anyway, puke, no the AMA does not agree. If you had gone to
> > >their website and done the search, you would have seen that
> > >the members are in agreement that the term "partial birth
> > >abortion" is merely an alarmist term coined by the
> > >anti-choice extremists. It refers to any abortion performed
> > >during the third trimester. Sorry, puke, you lose again.
> > >
> > >Sorry sue, but a pba is murder in the first degree.
> >
> > when is a baby born? Is it when the feet come out? Is it when the
> > entire body comes out? Is it when the butt comes out? Please tell us,
> > oh knowledgable one.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >> Apparently, I have a better idea than you do. Why do YOU
> > >never question the people who lead you around by the nose?
> >
> > explain yourself clearly.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >> > I'll give you a clue. It's found in the middle initial -
> > >no restrictions. Now go figure it out.
> > >
> > >> That's where the big lie is, puko. There is no birth
> > >involved. If there were, it would be illegal. Check your
> > >facts. Take more lithium before you do, though. Helps with
> > >that nasty bipolar stuff you suffer from.
> > >
> > >It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the baby in
> > >the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains out,
> > >and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
> >
> > womb through natural causes, is that then murder?
>
> to suck out the brains eh?
> Dont be so stupid already......
>
> They jam the cissors in and then suck out the brain TO END what LIFE is
> THERE....... So they can SAY its DEAD!
> so what! eh ?
>
> Now are you aware that a loving Mom and Dad LOVE that FETUS / BABY WHILE
> it is yet in the woumb.....?
>
> Ed..............(OGT)
Why would they not need to remove the brains, Ed? Does the skull
suddenly collapse if the fetus dies. The reason the brains are removed is to
make the skull collapse so it can pass through the birth canal without
injurying the woman. In the case of the dead fetus the woman many never have
spasms to force the fetus out, so it would need to be removed by force
regardless.
Your second paragraph is meaningless since women who have abortions
either aren't interested in being "a loving Mom" yet or are in a position
where they simply are not able to do so. People who call a fetus (or a
zygote or whatever stage it's in at the time) a "baby" are
anthropomorphizing the fetus and bonding with it. Some women who have
abortions consider their fetuses to have been "babies," too and would have
loved to have been its "loving Mom" but aren't able due to health reasons
(the fetus or their own) or other urgent reasons.
Stop over simplifying this very complex issue.
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
Edward Croteau
Alan Ferris <xa...@mistral.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vr54ms8jq9fv0jd1t...@4ax.com...
> "Karen H Jarvis" <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote ...
> >
> >"duke" <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> >news:8jr6mc$a46$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >> after claiming that you had killfiled me.
> >>
> >> One thing I never did is killfill you. I told you that before. I'm
> >> telling you again today.
> >>
> >> Can't you read English?
> >>
> >> > Another lie. Wanna admit it this time, like the man you claim to be?
> >>
> >> Admit what, susan?
> >>
> >> their website and done the search, you would have seen that
> >> the members are in agreement that the term "partial birth
> >> abortion" is merely an alarmist term coined by the
> >> anti-choice extremists. It refers to any abortion performed
> >> during the third trimester. Sorry, puke, you lose again.
> >>
> >> Sorry sue, but a pba is murder in the first degree.
> >>
> >>
> >> > Apparently, I have a better idea than you do. Why do YOU
> >> never question the people who lead you around by the nose?
> >>
> >>
> >> > > I'll give you a clue. It's found in the middle initial -
> >> no restrictions. Now go figure it out.
> >>
> >> > That's where the big lie is, puko. There is no birth
> >> involved. If there were, it would be illegal. Check your
> >> facts. Take more lithium before you do, though. Helps with
> >> that nasty bipolar stuff you suffer from.
> >>
> >> It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the baby in
> >> the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains out,
> >> and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
> >>
> >delivered head first?
>
> They do not. They deliver a arm into the birth canal (vagina) and
> this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
> read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
> facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
> describe this procedure correctly.
>
>
>
> Alan Ferris
Is that so hot shot! Then you tell me why there is still extreme
contraversy AMONGST the medical field YES including
the AMA....... and the doctors that are affiliated with it........
This is STILL a very contraversal subject WITHIN and WITHOUT the medical
field....... and a most SENSITIVE ONE at that....
But as we expect from the likes of you....... with your particular agenda,
the jury has already dispersed..
Ed..........................(OGT)
Edward Croteau
Edward Croteau
> delivered head first?
>
> > They do not. They deliver a arm into the birth canal (vagina) and
> this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
> read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
> facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
> describe this procedure correctly.
>
> what is going on.
>
> They first turn the baby to deliver the feet first and then the rest of
> the body but not the head.
>
> it.
>
> It takes a disgusting, sick man to believe in pb abortions.
>
> duke
But duke, isnt that exactly the type of persons were confronted by in here ?
Ed.....................(OGT)
Edward Croteau
Karen H Jarvis <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0Sr85.15990$wB1.2...@news3.cableinet.net...
>
> "Alan Ferris" <xa...@mistral.co.uk> wrote.....
> > >delivered head first?
> >
> > They do not. They deliver a arm into the birth canal (vagina) and
> > this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
> > read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
> > facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
> > describe this procedure correctly.
> >
>
> >
> > --
> > Alan Ferris
Ya know Karen when I think of you as a mother.. I wonder now just what goes
thru your mind when you do see
this procedure being done........ It dont bother you at all ???
Ed........................(OGT)
Edward Croteau
suit
> him fine, I'm sure). It makes no sense, either. I mean, think about it!
> Especially since folks like Duke want us to believe we're talking about
> great big bouncy cuddly babies. Imagine turning one of those inside a
woman
> and pulling it out breech? Be real. The man has no understanding of a
> woman's anatomy -- any reason for heterosexual or bisexual men to have
some
> experience with women.
> There's no question that it's a disturbing procedure and that's one
> reason why so few of them are performed each year. However, just because
> more of the procedure is seen and because it affects us so viscerally (so
to
> speak) does not mean it's a particularly inhumane procedure. The
alternative
> has often been to essential dismember the fetus inside of the uterus, thus
> risking serious damage to the woman if a bone tears her tissue and,
frankly,
> being much more brutal and long-lasting trauma to the fetus and fetal
> tissues. It's a safer, cleaner, quicker and more humane procedure for the
> patient and the fetus. I do not know how the procedure affects those who
> perform it.
Many of them are now cringeing...... And are making statements that they
might not continue to preform these procedures. because of a threat of legal
action against them........
Time for you to catch up on the latest there PROFESsIONAL chump.....
Ed........................(OGT)
>
> --
> Darklady
> http://www.darklady.com
>
>
Edward Croteau
Dave Snowden <dvs...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:vni3msgj644ccqk2v...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 03 Jul 2000 23:13:27 GMT, duke <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > "Luha" <s_du...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Anyway, puke, no the AMA does not agree. If you had gone to
> >their website and done the search, you would have seen that
> >the members are in agreement that the term "partial birth
> >abortion" is merely an alarmist term coined by the
> >anti-choice extremists. It refers to any abortion performed
> >during the third trimester. Sorry, puke, you lose again.
> >
> >Sorry sue, but a pba is murder in the first degree.
>
> when is a baby born? Is it when the feet come out? Is it when the
> entire body comes out? Is it when the butt comes out? Please tell us,
> oh knowledgable one.
>
>
> >
> >
> >> Apparently, I have a better idea than you do. Why do YOU
> >never question the people who lead you around by the nose?
>
> explain yourself clearly.
>
> >
> >
> >> > I'll give you a clue. It's found in the middle initial -
> >no restrictions. Now go figure it out.
> >
> >> That's where the big lie is, puko. There is no birth
> >involved. If there were, it would be illegal. Check your
> >facts. Take more lithium before you do, though. Helps with
> >that nasty bipolar stuff you suffer from.
> >
> >It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the baby in
> >the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains out,
> >and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
>
> womb through natural causes, is that then murder?
If the baby was dead to begin with, then they certainly would have no need
to suck out the brains eh?
Dont be so stupid already......
They jam the cissors in and then suck out the brain TO END what LIFE is
THERE....... So they can SAY its DEAD!
so what! eh ?
Now are you aware that a loving Mom and Dad LOVE that FETUS / BABY WHILE
it is yet in the woumb.....?
Ed..............(OGT)
>
>
> >
> >The most disgusting thing a parent can do. Murder for his/her own
> >confort and convenience.
> >
> >> Such a scholar. BTW, no you don't.
> >
> >BTW, yes I do.
>
> Kiddies, kiddies, stop this playground attitude.
>
> >
> >> Or are you claiming to know more than the surgeons that perform this
> >service? I remember one of my cousin's know-it-all girlfriends arguing
> >vehemently over a question of tooth formation with one of my
> >uncles. It was amusing. She didn't realize he was the
> >president of the local dental association. A bit like you,
> >puke.
> >
> >Still can't carry on a conversation without insulting people, can you
> >sue?
>
> You avoided answering the question again. Nice try, but we can all see
> that you fucked up again. And you said that you don't insult anyone.
When you want us to start calling you Mr. perfect.......? LOL
Ed......................(OGT)
Dave Snowden
>In article <8js70s$d1a$8...@dosa.alt.net>,
> St. Jackanapes <Jesus.H...@hellmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > > The most disgusting thing a parent can do. Murder for his/her own
>confort and convenience.
>
>> > You need to get out more, Duke.
>"The most disgusting thing a parent can do" is give birth to a child and
>then systematically emotionall, physically and/or mentally abuse that
>child.
>
>> That's how we get the Ed's, Duke's and Adam J's of the world.
>
>Wrong. The worst and most disgusting and damning thing a person can do
>is kill it's own unborn for it's own comfort and convenience.
Good answer duckie. You talk just like the gay cardinals in Rome who
have never had sex with a female since Pius XII and Sister Pascalina
who lived together for so long. Cardinal Spellman not withstanding. Or
was it Spelly and Pacelli and Pascalina played the fag hag bit?
And in case you forgot, you can not kill something that is not alive.
No matter how many times you say it, it can NOT happen. I thought you
knew that stuff. You talk like you know everything and can tell when
we are lying.
=============================
[intentionally left blank]
Dave Snowden
>In article <Sal85.15411$wB1.1...@news3.cableinet.net>,
> "Karen H Jarvis" <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's are
>delivered head first?
>Karen
>
>I'm glad you asked that question, kj.
>
>In a pba, the abortionist first turns the baby so that it comes out
>feet first.
How is this accomplished? You know so much, please tell us.
>It "delivers" all of the baby except it's head, stabs a
>pair of scissors into the base of the neck, sucks the brains out,
>crushes the head, and guess what, delivers a poor and unfortunaely dead
>baby.
What if the fetus is already dead through natural causes?
>
>Wherein mommie and daddie go home and cry and plan the funeral for
>their poor baby that was dead at birth.
>
>Sick people. Animals. Lowest form of life. Disgusting people.
>
Makes you feel real good that you can pass judgement on these people.
Does you god like that? Does she give you a lesser stay in hell
because you helped her in her great job of judging people?
=============================
[intentionally left blank]
Dave Snowden
wrote:
>
>I was waiting for an explanation of how they found room with the
>babies body in the way! How big does the fool think the vagina is!
Keep waiting, he has never had intimate sex with a female adult.
And if his church would teach sex properly, their wouldn't be a need
for all those catholics to have an abortion. Of all the abortions
performed in the USA, 55% are to catholic women and 45% represent
women from all the other religions and non-religions combined.
YEAH!!! CATHOLICS HAVE THE MOST ABORTIONS!!!!!!!!!
GOOD STATISTIC!!!!!
=============================
[intentionally left blank]
Bob Pease
> >Wrong. The worst and most disgusting and damning thing a person can do
> >is kill it's own unborn for it's own comfort and convenience.
>
>
Possessive : its
Contraction for "it is" : it's
If someone isn't careful enough to learn proper usage, then what else are
they careless about??
looking stuff up??
Sentence fragments with colloquialisms in them??
Heavy bullshit demands at least good grammar to increase credibility.
aside from mortimer ducksteveteck
"Duh That means he do heavy bullshit ,,,hyar, hyar, "
Edward Croteau
I agree with you here. but your telling us the baby was already DEAD.... I
have no qualm with the removal of the child in this instance........ Im
talking about the many many still healthy and bounceing arround embro or
babies...
The ones that are discarded only for the purpose of allowing the female to
go out as quickly as possible to once again spread her legs for THE
ENJOYMENT and LUST of the SEXUAL ACT......
Ed........................(OGT)
God save the Commonwealth !
and especially it's unborn yet to enter this world. (hopefully)
>
>
>
> --
> Alan Ferris
Edward Croteau
>
> Trust Steve/Ed to once again show his stupidity of the information.
> Dr's were scared that the legislation going through would make all
> late abortions open to a charge of murder. The law trying to be
> passed was to vague to be specific and therefore left Dr's open to
> prosecutions for something that the law was never intended for. That
> is why the supreme court rejected it! Try reading rather than what
> you seem to do!
>
>
>
> --
> Alan Ferris
Ya see your problem is your so intent that your always correct. that you
forget it isnt OVER yet !
Ed..........................(OGT)
Frank Weaver
In article <8jtr6e$4fs$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, duke <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>In article <vr54ms8jq9fv0jd1t...@4ax.com>,
> xa...@mistral.co.uk wrote:
>
>> >How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's are
>delivered head first?
>
>> They do not. They deliver a arm into the birth canal (vagina) and
>this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
>read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
>facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
>describe this procedure correctly.
>
>Sorry to pop your bubble, ferris, but you are pretty ignorant as to
>what is going on.
>
>They first turn the baby to deliver the feet first and then the rest of
>the body but not the head.
You should do as Alan suggested, because this is a lie. I refer you
to Dr. Martin Haskell's presentation "Dilation and Extraction for
Late Second Trimester Abortion," NAF Seminar, Sept. 13 1992.
"With a lower extremity in the vagina, the surgeon uses his fingers to
deliver the opposite lower extremity, then the torso, the shoulders and
the upper extremities.
"The skull lodges at the internal cervical os. Usually there is not
enough dilation for it to pass through. The fetus is oriented dorsum
or spine up."
Now, just in case you don't know fuck-all about female anatomy, that
"cervical os" is pretty deep in there.
Nor is your crap merely stupidity on your part. Right now I'm holding
a reprint of a George Will column that repeats exactly the same lie.
But that's the point, isn't it? The deliberate lie that the fetus is
first 'delivered' supports the deliberate mischaracterization of D&X
as 'infanticide,' which is the propaganda motor for the whole
dishonest campaign.
>That's so they can jam a pair of scissors into the baby's skull to kill
>it.
>
>It takes a disgusting, sick man to believe in pb abortions.
You may want to stop and wonder why the anti-pba campaign relies so
heavily on lies. There's not only these lies that you're telling,
but that nurse, Brenda Shafer, whose 'eyewitness' testimony was
exposed as a pack of lies, and Nebraska's Attorney General Stedberg,
who lied to the Supreme Court about the intent of his state's law,
and the lies the NCCB concoct about when and why women get D&X
abortions, just off the top of my head. Generally, someone or
something that relies on deceit is hiding something and cannot be
trusted.
Of course, that's assuming that you have enough integrity to be
disturbed by deceit even when it serves your purposes.
- --
Frank Weaver Encrypted email preferred
wea...@world.std.com PGP KeyID: 33935039
On a keyserver near you
I never drink... wine.
-- The Count, "Draftcula" (1931)
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Edward Croteau
> On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 17:05:31 GMT, duke <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <8js70s$d1a$8...@dosa.alt.net>,
> > St. Jackanapes <Jesus.H...@hellmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > > The most disgusting thing a parent can do. Murder for his/her own
> >confort and convenience.
> >
> >> > You need to get out more, Duke.
> >"The most disgusting thing a parent can do" is give birth to a child and
> >then systematically emotionall, physically and/or mentally abuse that
> >child.
> >
> >> That's how we get the Ed's, Duke's and Adam J's of the world.
> >
> >is kill it's own unborn for it's own comfort and convenience.
>
>
> have never had sex with a female since Pius XII and Sister Pascalina
> who lived together for so long. Cardinal Spellman not withstanding. Or
> was it Spelly and Pacelli and Pascalina played the fag hag bit?
>
> And in case you forgot, you can not kill something that is not alive.
> No matter how many times you say it, it can NOT happen. I thought you
> knew that stuff. You talk like you know everything and can tell when
> we are lying.
And you know that all the aborted were dead before the abortionist went to
work, and scoffed up the fetal tissues for
these new experiments that are recently spoken of........... Little science,
lotta death......?
Ed.....................(OGT)
>
>
>
> =============================
>
> [intentionally left blank]
>
>
Is that due to there being a great number of gays down on the beach ? eh ?
Ed........................9OGT)
Dave Snowden
[whole bunch of duck shit removed]
>As far as I'm concerned, abortion is murder - the butchery of one's own
>unborn baby for one's convenience and benefit. Women may have a civil,
>legal right to one in some countries. But God is not going to be
>pleased. And God doesn't run a democracy.
>
Please check your AHD for the definitions of baby and unborn. They are
mutually exclusive. Sorta like you can't say that she is almost
pregnant. Or you almost earned your 8th grade diploma. Either you are
or you aren't or you did or you didn't.
What drugs do you use to talk to god. You seem to be doing it much
more lately.
=============================
[intentionally left blank]
St. Jackanapes
In alt.recovery.catholicism, Dave Snowden said...
Rum more than likely.
--
St. Jackanapes
----------------------------
http://pray.at/st.jackanapes
http://laugh.at/priestess.lesion
"Yes, it is true. I can longer subject myself to this immorality.
(I just got a summer job that pays $15 per hour.)"
-Sean "Adam J" Conley, Spanked on July/01/00
arjay
> Edward Croteau wrote ...
> > Karen H Jarvis wrote ...
> > > "duke" wrote ...
> > > > "Karen H Jarvis" <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's are
> > > > delivered head first?
> > > >
> > > > I'm glad you asked that question, kj.
> > > >
> > > > In a pba, the abortionist first turns the baby so that it comes out
> > > > pair of scissors into the base of the neck, sucks the brains out,
> > > > crushes the head, and guess what, delivers a poor and unfortunaely
> > > > dead baby.
> > > >
> > > > their poor baby that was dead at birth.
> > > >
> > > > Sick people. Animals. Lowest form of life. Disgusting people.
> > > >
> >
> > Tut-tut tut there gal.... carefull about that, Must I remind you how you
> > reffere to [certain] HUMAN BEINGS in here.
> >
> > Ed.........................(OGT)
>
> True. In your case, you're a human being and a vegetable.
Somewhere there's a half-acre field of rutabagas which have withered in shock,
after realizing OGT is related to them.
arjay
> --
> Darklady
> http://www.darklady.com
arjay
> Alan Ferris wrote ...
> > "Edward Croteau" wrote ...
> > >duke wrote ...
> > >> "Darklady" <dark...@darklady.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > The fetus is not "born" merely because part of its body is
> > >> exposed
> > >> during the procedure. And frankly, although it's definitely a graphic
> > >> procedure it's not the most upsetting visually. It's a far safer
> > >> procedure for the woman (not that this interests you, of course) and
> > >> swifter for the fetus.
> > >>
> > >> So when is it "born"? A big toe? A tongue?
> > >>
> > >> It is butchery in the first degree. God will make the last judgement.
> > >>
> > >> > Of course you do. You and your kind invented the term and make up
> > >> its meaning as you go along. But you won't find that term on the AMA
> > >> website, which is Luha's point, Duke.
> > >>
> > >> Legalized shameful murder in the first degree. God will have the last
> > >> judgement.
> > >
> > >abortions and are afraid of going to jail.
> > >
> > >the issues involved are still extremely controversal...... and much back
> > >and forth is going on .......yet......
> > >
> > >One day all will realise that life is most preciouse....... and not just
> > >some throw-away commodity.
> >
> > Dr's were scared that the legislation going through would make all
> > late abortions open to a charge of murder. The law trying to be
> > passed was to vague to be specific and therefore left Dr's open to
> > prosecutions for something that the law was never intended for. That
> > is why the supreme court rejected it! Try reading rather than what
> > you seem to do!
>
> forget it isnt OVER yet !
I don't think Alan is claiming that the furore is over, Edentate.
Interesting, however, that you admit he is correct in his statement.
arjay
> Ed..........................(OGT)
Karen H Jarvis
"Steve" <granp...@earthlink.net> wrote .....
> > "Edward Croteau" <granp...@earthlink.net> wrote ...
> > >
> > >Darklady <dark...@darklady.com> wrote in message
> > >news:39621bce$1...@news.nwlink.com...
> > >>
> > >> Edward Croteau <granp...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > >> news:bWn85.29163$NP5.8...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > >> >
> > >> > news:8jr650$9u1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > >> > > In article <395e0...@news.nwlink.com>,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > The fetus is not "born" merely because part of its body is
> > >exposed
> > >> > > during the procedure. And frankly, although it's definitely a
> graphic
> > >> > > procedure it's not the most upsetting visually. It's a far safer
> > >> > > procedure for the woman (not that this interests you, of course)
> and
> > >> > > swifter for the fetus.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > So when is it "born"? A big toe? A tongue?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > It is butchery in the first degree. God will make the last
> judgement.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > Of course you do. You and your kind invented the term and
> make
> > >up
> > >> > > its meaning as you go along. But you won't find that term on the
> AMA
> > >> > > website, which is Luha's point, Duke.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Legalized shameful murder in the first degree. God will have the
> last
> > >> > > judgement.
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> > I saw somewhere , where many doctors are very fearfull of
preforming
> > >such
> > >> > abortions and are afraid of going to jail.
> > >> >
> > >> > the issues involved are still extremely controversal...... and much
> back
> > >> and
> > >> > forth is going on .......yet......
> > >> >
> > >> > One day all will realise that life is most preciouse....... and
not
> > >just
> > >> > some throw-away commodity.
> > >> >
Unless I am mistaken, if "the female to go out as quickly as possible to
once again spread her legs for THE ENJOYMENT and LUST of the SEXUAL
ACT......", there is another psrty involved, or doesn't a man participate in
the sexual act??
For ED/STEVE, the woman is, presumably, spreading "her legs" for a MAN. Why
do you not condemn the man's part in all this?
Karen
Karen H Jarvis
"duke" <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote ....
> In article <cf54mscmfkpdb7vra...@4ax.com>,
> xa...@mistral.co.uk wrote:
>
> > Is a baby born when it is still in the vagina? The babies arm is born
> into the birth canal (vagina) Not out of the vagina, for that to
> happen the head would be already past the cervix and you would be in
> the middle of one horrendous birth!
>
> Don't you get it yet ferris. All of the baby is outside the mother
> except the head. That's when they jam a pair of scissors into it's
> skull to kill it.
Do you understand anything about female anatomy?? The baby is NOT outside
the mother.
Karen
> Therefore it's not murder in the 1st degree punishable by death because
> the head wasn't delivered yet.
>
> > So if the child is already dead it is murder? It is sometimes
> performed on foetuses that die in the womb, but you people never want
> to talk about those! Do you realise what the risks are to a woman
> carrying a dead baby for another 3 months. Do you have any idea what
> the fluid does to that corpse?
>
> Don't you understand that pba's are legal at full term. Sickly put, 1
> undelivered baby head short of 1st degree murder.
>
> > I am not saying that all are done for this (I know your ways Duke).
> But some are, shame you people want to ban those to! Have you
> bothered to learn why abortions have to be performed on ectopic
> pregnancies. Have you bothered to read up on the many reasons that
> the woman may need an abortion for medical reasons and not for
> convenience. Would you care to show how many you can name?
>
> As far as I'm concerned, abortion is murder - the butchery of one's own
> unborn baby for one's convenience and benefit. Women may have a civil,
> legal right to one in some countries. But God is not going to be
> pleased. And God doesn't run a democracy.
>
> duke
Karen H Jarvis
"Steve" <granp...@earthlink.net> wrote.......> news:39624...@news.nwlink.com...> > news:bnp85.29378$NP5.8...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...> > > news:39621d3c$1...@news.nwlink.com...> > > > news:q%n85.29178$NP5.8...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > > > >
> > > > > St. Jackanapes <Jesus.H...@hellmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:8js70s$d1a$8...@dosa.alt.net...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In alt.recovery.catholicism, Darklady said...> > > > > > > news:8jr6mc$a46$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the
> > baby
> > > in
> > > > > > > > the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's
> > brains
> > > > out,
> > > > > > > > and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
> > > > > > > >
his/her
> > own
> > > > > > > > confort and convenience.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You need to get out more, Duke.
> > > > > > > "The most disgusting thing a parent can do" is give birth
to
> a
> > > > child
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > then systematically emotionall, physically and/or mentally
abuse
> > > that
> > > > > child.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's how we get the Ed's, Duke's and Adam J's of the world.
> > > > >
> > judgments
> > > or
> > > > > assertions......
> > > > > What happened when say , the world was introduced by the likes of
> > > > filthyness
> > > > > like you and your henchmen/women.?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ed............................(OGT)
> > > >
> > > > You actually may have a point, Ed-Steve. People who have been
> abused
> > > as
> > > > children aren't the only ones who can be deeply disturbed. Neither
St.
> > > Jack
> > > > nor I really know if any of you guys were abused as kids. You might
> just
> > > be
> > > > bad from the beginning. It would certainly explain your obsession
with
> > the
> > > > concept of Original Sin.
> > > > One of the world's more famous serial killers, Jeffrey Dahmer,
> grew
> > up
> > > > in a wonderful and loving family. His folks were married and
> apparently
> > > > unremarkable. They loved their son and treated him well. He was
never
> > > > physically abused or emotionally mistreated by his family and
> apparently
> > > had
> > > > normal relationships with schoolmates, workers and others. But
> Jeffrey,
> > > > perhaps like you and Duke and Adam J (I know nothing of your
> > upbringings)
> > > he
> > > > simply had something *wrong* inside. It bothered him quite a bit,
his
> > love
> > > > of violence and the arousal he felt from it. He knew it was wrong
but
> > did
> > > it
> > > > anyway, keeping it a secret. He started with small animals, as
violent
> > > > psychopaths often do. And he didn't like porn, Ed-Steve. Not at all.
> It
> > > > didn't arouse him. It bored him. So he didn't read it. You'd have
> liked
> > > > that, Ed-Steve.
> > > > What did Jeffrey like? Hunting magazines. True Crime magazines.
> > > Violent
> > > > magazines. Nothing smutty about them. No cussing. No naughty body
> parts.
> > > > Just good ole American articles and stories about killing things,
> about
> > > > people who'd killed or hurt one another. Jeffrey liked those. They
> gave
> > > him
> > > > an erection.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Are you saying, that's why the jackle has the obsession to put up
smutty
> > > pictures and call it a webb site.....?
> > >
> > > Or how about that other one there with the exceeding need to show
> pictures
> > > of children tossing the bird... Would that
> > >
> > > come under this same reasoning...........?
> > >
> > > AND why dont we see YOU objecting to any of this junk....?
> > >
> > > Ed.......................(OGT)
> >
> > What are you talking about? Who is "the jackle" and what does it
have
> to
> > do with Dahmer?
> > If you're talking about St. Jack then he has every right to create a
> web
> > site and put images on it. What you'd described is NOT child
pornography,
> > however. And that is what this is about. YOU claimed St. Jack was a
child
> > pornographer and that the image was pornographic. It is not child
> > pornography. It is a vulgar image but not pornographic.
> > Stop dodging the issue, you coward.
>
> Before you start on one of your missguided rants, you should get it
> straightned out who is who.....
Have you heard of pornocracy?
Karen
> Dont they teach you that in writers school ?
>
> Ed....................(OGT)
> >
> > --
> > Darklady
> > http://www.darklady.com
> >
> >
>
>
Karen H Jarvis
"Alan Ferris" wrote......
> "Karen H Jarvis" <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote ...
> >
> >"Alan Ferris" <xa...@mistral.co.uk> wrote.....
> >> "Karen H Jarvis" <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote ...
> >> >
> >> >"duke" <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:8jr6mc$a46$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >> >> "Luha" <s_du...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> after claiming that you had killfiled me.
> >> >>
> >> >> One thing I never did is killfill you. I told you that before. I'm
> >> >> telling you again today.
> >> >>
> >> >> Can't you read English?
> >> >>
> >> >> > Another lie. Wanna admit it this time, like the man you claim to
be?
> >> >>
> >> >> Admit what, susan?
> >> >>
> >> >> their website and done the search, you would have seen that
> >> >> the members are in agreement that the term "partial birth
> >> >> abortion" is merely an alarmist term coined by the
> >> >> anti-choice extremists. It refers to any abortion performed
> >> >> during the third trimester. Sorry, puke, you lose again.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > > You really don't know what a pba is, do you sue?
> >> >>
> >> >> > Apparently, I have a better idea than you do. Why do YOU
> >> >> never question the people who lead you around by the nose?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > > I'll give you a clue. It's found in the middle initial -
> >> >> no restrictions. Now go figure it out.
> >> >>
> >> >> > That's where the big lie is, puko. There is no birth
> >> >> involved. If there were, it would be illegal. Check your
> >> >> facts. Take more lithium before you do, though. Helps with
> >> >> that nasty bipolar stuff you suffer from.
> >> >>
> >> >> the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains
out,
> >> >> and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
> >> >>
> >> >delivered head first?
> >>
> >> this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
> >> read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
> >> facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
> >> describe this procedure correctly.
> >>
>
>
Yup. He seems to have strange ideas regarding the female anatomical
structure.
>
> --
> Alan Ferris
> eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
> EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> Behold, behold,
> The Lamb of God
> As it skips and hops.
> I know that soon
> The Lamb of God
> Will be the Lamb of chops Spike Milligan
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> Visit me: http://www3.mistral.co.uk/xalan/
> ICQ UIN: 12811297
Karen H Jarvis
"Steve" <granp...@earthlink.net> wrote ....
>
> Karen H Jarvis <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:0Sr85.15990$wB1.2...@news3.cableinet.net...
> > >
> > > --
> > > Alan Ferris
>
> Ya know Karen when I think of you as a mother.. I wonder now just what
goes
> thru your mind when you do see
I have never seen this procedure carried out. Have you?
Karen
> Ed........................(OGT)
>
>
Edward Croteau
> > > > In article <Sal85.15411$wB1.1...@news3.cableinet.net>,
> > > > "Karen H Jarvis" <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's
are
> > > > delivered head first?
> > > >
> > > > I'm glad you asked that question, kj.
> > > >
> > > > In a pba, the abortionist first turns the baby so that it comes out
> > > > feet first. It "delivers" all of the baby except it's head, stabs a
> > > > pair of scissors into the base of the neck, sucks the brains out,
> > > > crushes the head, and guess what, delivers a poor and unfortunaely
> dead
> > > > baby.
> > > >
> > > > Wherein mommie and daddie go home and cry and plan the funeral for
> > > > their poor baby that was dead at birth.
> > > >
> > > > Sick people. Animals. Lowest form of life. Disgusting people.
> > > >
> > > Human beings ARE animals.
> > >
> >
> > Tut-tut tut there gal.... carefull about that, Must I remind you how you
> > reffere to [certain] HUMAN BEINGS in here.
> >
> > Ed.........................(OGT)
>
> True. In your case, you're a human being and a vegetable.
But that would be impossible.... I thought a prominant writer such as you
claim to be would be privey to that.
But alas i see you really are not........ I guess that puts you sorta up in
that catagory that MK finds himself, when it
comes to his so called poetry..... remember him getting the bounce from some
poets NG He must of really tore up the place, like he does in
here..........LOL But hooray, they caned him........ told him OUT
..........and off......LOL
Ed......................(OGT)
>
> --
> Darklady
> http://www.darklady.com
>
>
>
Edward Croteau
> > > "Darklady" <dark...@darklady.com> wrote ...
> > > >
> > > >Alan Ferris <xa...@mistral.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > >news:vr54ms8jq9fv0jd1t...@4ax.com...
are
> > > >> >delivered head first?
> > > >>
> > > >> this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should
> really
> > > >> read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check
the
> > > >> facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
> > > >> describe this procedure correctly.
> > > >
> > > babies body in the way! How big does the fool think the vagina is!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Alan Ferris
> >
> > You would be very surprised Altrickster, at just how large it can be
> > extended.....with those tools the doctors have.
> > Im surprised they dont utilise plumbers tools just for convienance.....
> >
> > Ed..................(OGT)
>
a
> fetus around in like it's on a lazy susan.
> Yet another reason I doubt you're the father of even one child, let
> alone nearly 20.
Well if they wanna flatten the head, why not just go in with a miniture VICE
and squash it.....? Would that make you feel all tingely inside
Darkmoldy........?
Ed...........................(OGT)
>
> --
> Darklady
> http://www.darklady.com
>
>
Edward Croteau
> > > On Mon, 03 Jul 2000 23:13:27 GMT, duke <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Luha" <s_du...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Anyway, puke, no the AMA does not agree. If you had gone to
> > > >their website and done the search, you would have seen that
> > > >the members are in agreement that the term "partial birth
> > > >abortion" is merely an alarmist term coined by the
> > > >anti-choice extremists. It refers to any abortion performed
> > > >during the third trimester. Sorry, puke, you lose again.
> > > >
> > > >Sorry sue, but a pba is murder in the first degree.
> > >
> > > when is a baby born? Is it when the feet come out? Is it when the
> > > entire body comes out? Is it when the butt comes out? Please tell us,
> > > oh knowledgable one.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Apparently, I have a better idea than you do. Why do YOU
> > > >never question the people who lead you around by the nose?
> > >
> > > explain yourself clearly.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> > I'll give you a clue. It's found in the middle initial -
> > > >no restrictions. Now go figure it out.
> > > >
> > > >> That's where the big lie is, puko. There is no birth
> > > >involved. If there were, it would be illegal. Check your
> > > >facts. Take more lithium before you do, though. Helps with
> > > >that nasty bipolar stuff you suffer from.
> > > >
> > > >It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the baby in
> > > >the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains
out,
> > > >and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
> > >
> > > womb through natural causes, is that then murder?
> >
> > If the baby was dead to begin with, then they certainly would have no
need
> > to suck out the brains eh?
> > Dont be so stupid already......
> >
> > They jam the cissors in and then suck out the brain TO END what LIFE is
> > THERE....... So they can SAY its DEAD!
> > so what! eh ?
> >
> > Now are you aware that a loving Mom and Dad LOVE that FETUS / BABY
WHILE
> > it is yet in the woumb.....?
> >
> > Ed..............(OGT)
>
> suddenly collapse if the fetus dies. The reason the brains are removed is
to
> make the skull collapse so it can pass through the birth canal without
> injurying the woman. In the case of the dead fetus the woman many never
have
> spasms to force the fetus out, so it would need to be removed by force
> regardless.
> Your second paragraph is meaningless since women who have abortions
> either aren't interested in being "a loving Mom" yet or are in a position
> where they simply are not able to do so. People who call a fetus (or a
> zygote or whatever stage it's in at the time) a "baby" are
> anthropomorphizing the fetus and bonding with it. Some women who have
> abortions consider their fetuses to have been "babies," too and would have
> loved to have been its "loving Mom" but aren't able due to health reasons
> (the fetus or their own) or other urgent reasons.
> Stop over simplifying this very complex issue.
YES! I CERTAINLY do wish these [HATCHET WOMEN] would stop simplifying
abortions.
Let me remind you....... We lost one child, and NEVER considered in any way
shape or manner an abortion.
Ed..........................(OGT)
>
> --
> Darklady
> http://www.darklady.com
>
>
Edward Croteau
Bob Pease <bobp...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:8juf7l$8...@chronicle.concentric.net...
>
> > >Wrong. The worst and most disgusting and damning thing a person can do
> > >is kill it's own unborn for it's own comfort and convenience.
> >
> >
> Possessive : its
>
> Contraction for "it is" : it's
>
> If someone isn't careful enough to learn proper usage, then what else are
> they careless about??
> looking stuff up??
> Sentence fragments with colloquialisms in them??
>
> Heavy bullshit demands at least good grammar to increase credibility.
LOL! But lookie here, just who knows so much this about that..........LOL
And ya do !
Ed.........................(OGT)
Alan Ferris
Still healthy, what about an ectopic pregnancy? At the time of
abortion it is normally quite healthy. Would you agree to that? What
about the people who picket these places, they do not bother with WHY,
only with the fact that it happens. Just what abortions will you
agree to then Ed? If you have the choice between one life or both, do
you chose to loose both or one?
>The ones that are discarded only for the purpose of allowing the female to
>go out as quickly as possible to once again spread her legs for THE
>ENJOYMENT and LUST of the SEXUAL ACT......
>
>Ed........................(OGT)
Yet they are not in the majority of abortions in this country. Yet
your church is campaigning to have ALL abortions stopped. Do you
realise that? Even those dead babies! Even Ectopic babies. They
want to outlaw ALL abortions.
Alan Ferris
>
>Alan Ferris <xa...@mistral.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> Trust Steve/Ed to once again show his stupidity of the information.
>> Dr's were scared that the legislation going through would make all
>> late abortions open to a charge of murder. The law trying to be
>> passed was to vague to be specific and therefore left Dr's open to
>> prosecutions for something that the law was never intended for. That
>> is why the supreme court rejected it! Try reading rather than what
>> you seem to do!
>
>Ya see your problem is your so intent that your always correct. that you
>forget it isnt OVER yet !
>
What is this meant to mean Steve/Ed? I post the information as
reported, why do you have a problem with that? You did not? You
either did not bother to read it, or you did not comprehend? Which
was it Ed. All the news, articles and such are still available.
Please explain how you managed to get it so wrong with so much
information available?
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suddenly, in a microsm of moment,
Unknown - earthbound me - was released
Into a moment where time stood still,
And I knew then who God was...it was me,
And I knew who made him...you. Spike Milligan
Alan Ferris
>In article <cf54mscmfkpdb7vra...@4ax.com>,
> xa...@mistral.co.uk wrote:
>
>> Is a baby born when it is still in the vagina? The babies arm is born
>into the birth canal (vagina) Not out of the vagina, for that to
>happen the head would be already past the cervix and you would be in
>the middle of one horrendous birth!
>
>Don't you get it yet ferris. All of the baby is outside the mother
>except the head. That's when they jam a pair of scissors into it's
>skull to kill it.
>
>the head wasn't delivered yet.
>
>> So if the child is already dead it is murder? It is sometimes
>performed on foetuses that die in the womb, but you people never want
>to talk about those! Do you realise what the risks are to a woman
>carrying a dead baby for another 3 months. Do you have any idea what
>the fluid does to that corpse?
>
>Don't you understand that pba's are legal at full term. Sickly put, 1
>undelivered baby head short of 1st degree murder.
Then please provide the evidence. Point to one article in any
publication that describes it as such. I take my description from a
pro-life website and the Lancet. Care to tell me where you read your
version? Do you realise that if all the body is out then you
delivered a breach birth? Do you realise that you cannot prevent that
head from coming out! Ask any gynecologist if it would be possible to
pause at that stage!
>> I am not saying that all are done for this (I know your ways Duke).
>But some are, shame you people want to ban those to! Have you
>bothered to learn why abortions have to be performed on ectopic
>pregnancies. Have you bothered to read up on the many reasons that
>the woman may need an abortion for medical reasons and not for
>convenience. Would you care to show how many you can name?
>
>As far as I'm concerned, abortion is murder - the butchery of one's own
>unborn baby for one's convenience and benefit. Women may have a civil,
>legal right to one in some countries. But God is not going to be
>pleased. And God doesn't run a democracy.
So what about if the foetus is already dead? Do you agree with the
protesters harassing them? What about ectopic pregnancy where both
mother and foetus will die? What about where you get extreme
hydrocephalus or where there is no head at all but the brain stem.
There is physical life, but no brain, what then duke? How many of
these protesters check why these people are receiving abortions?
I just hope your future wife never has an ectopic pregnancy, heart
disease diagnosed after conception, diabetes, or any other condition
that will make you have to decide between following the churches line
and loosing them both, or not following the churches line and saving
your wife. I feel sorry for anybody in that position!
Alan Ferris
>
>"duke" <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote ....
>> In article <cf54mscmfkpdb7vra...@4ax.com>,
>> xa...@mistral.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> > Is a baby born when it is still in the vagina? The babies arm is born
>> into the birth canal (vagina) Not out of the vagina, for that to
>> happen the head would be already past the cervix and you would be in
>> the middle of one horrendous birth!
>>
>> Don't you get it yet ferris. All of the baby is outside the mother
>> except the head. That's when they jam a pair of scissors into it's
>> skull to kill it.
>
>the mother.
Well apart from tweaking the nipples of young girls he did claim to be
a virgin and not knowledgeable on the subject!
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Behold, behold,
The Lamb of God
As it skips and hops.
I know that soon
The Lamb of God
Will be the Lamb of chops Spike Milligan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Ferris
>> > In article <8js70s$d1a$8...@dosa.alt.net>,
>> > St. Jackanapes <Jesus.H...@hellmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > confort and convenience.
>> >
>> > > > You need to get out more, Duke.
>> > "The most disgusting thing a parent can do" is give birth to a child and
>> > then systematically emotionall, physically and/or mentally abuse that
>> > child.
>> >
>> > > That's how we get the Ed's, Duke's and Adam J's of the world.
>> >
>> > is kill it's own unborn for it's own comfort and convenience.
>> >
>>
>> You are a morally bankrupt man who has clearly never spent any time
>> trying to help someone who's suffered from the deep wounds of child abuse.
>
>Yet why is it that all I see you doing is covering up for the vile internet
>smut.... and those that crawl in here from afj with it.......?
Yet why is it that all I see you doing is covering up for the vile
smut posted by you, Duke, Reese and Craftless......
>Now I feel it is once again time to shout out! WHERE IS THE RECOVERY ! ?
>ISNT THIS SUPPOSED TO BE A RECOVERY GROUP ?
WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO TELL US WHAT RECOVERY IS. You seem to think
that you are some sort of expert on it. So TELL US, how should this
recovery take place, what sort of groups should be formed, how strict
must the topics be, who will act as moderator and guide for these
discussions, who will decide when the topic can be changed, how often
and where should expert advice be sought. WHEN EVER HAS A RECOVERY
GROUP EXISTED IN PUBLIC!!!
Please visit other recovery groups Ed.....see any recovery going
on....NO!!! See any alcoholics trolling the aa groups....NO....see
any rapists promoting rape on rape.recovery......NO!
Well guess why not. Guess why no recovery group holds recovery
sessions in public!
What was your qualifications for advising on recover? What training
have you received?
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suddenly, in a microsm of moment,
Unknown - earthbound me - was released
Into a moment where time stood still,
And I knew then who God was...it was me,
And I knew who made him...you. Spike Milligan
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Ferris
>news:%Rr85.15989$wB1.2...@news3.cableinet.net...
>> > In article <Sal85.15411$wB1.1...@news3.cableinet.net>,
>> >
>> > > How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's are
>> > delivered head first?
>> >
>> > I'm glad you asked that question, kj.
>> >
>> > In a pba, the abortionist first turns the baby so that it comes out
>> > feet first. It "delivers" all of the baby except it's head, stabs a
>> > pair of scissors into the base of the neck, sucks the brains out,
>> > crushes the head, and guess what, delivers a poor and unfortunaely dead
>> > baby.
>> >
>> > Wherein mommie and daddie go home and cry and plan the funeral for
>> > their poor baby that was dead at birth.
>> >
>> > Sick people. Animals. Lowest form of life. Disgusting people.
>> >
>> Human beings ARE animals.
>>
>> Karen
>
>Tut-tut tut there gal.... carefull about that, Must I remind you how you
>reffere to [certain] HUMAN BEINGS in here.
>
Care to explain what classification YOU are under then?
Piscine?
Insecta?
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Behold, behold,
The Lamb of God
As it skips and hops.
I know that soon
The Lamb of God
Will be the Lamb of chops Spike Milligan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Ferris
>On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 17:13:23 GMT, duke <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <Sal85.15411$wB1.1...@news3.cableinet.net>,
>> "Karen H Jarvis" <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's are
>>delivered head first?
>>Karen
>>
>>I'm glad you asked that question, kj.
>>
>>In a pba, the abortionist first turns the baby so that it comes out
>>feet first.
>
Obviously he never heard of breach birth and why they are so
dangerous!
>>It "delivers" all of the baby except it's head, stabs a
>>pair of scissors into the base of the neck, sucks the brains out,
>>crushes the head, and guess what, delivers a poor and unfortunaely dead
>>baby.
>
>What if the fetus is already dead through natural causes?
Does not matter why! These people just love to abuse anybody going
into an abortion clinic!
>>
>>Wherein mommie and daddie go home and cry and plan the funeral for
>>their poor baby that was dead at birth.
>>
>>Sick people. Animals. Lowest form of life. Disgusting people.
>>
>
>Makes you feel real good that you can pass judgement on these people.
>Does you god like that? Does she give you a lesser stay in hell
>because you helped her in her great job of judging people?
Strange how much christians just love to Judge! Strange how they
always manage to ignore the rule against it!
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When the only colour is black -
the only sound
the broken bell
THEN talk to me about why. Spike Milligan
Alan Ferris
>news:0Sr85.15990$wB1.2...@news3.cableinet.net...
>>
>> "Alan Ferris" <xa...@mistral.co.uk> wrote.....
>> > >> In article <slt5odk...@corp.supernews.com>,
>> > >> "Luha" <s_du...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> after claiming that you had killfiled me.
>> > >>
>> > >> One thing I never did is killfill you. I told you that before. I'm
>> > >> telling you again today.
>> > >>
>> > >> Can't you read English?
>> > >>
>> > >> > Another lie. Wanna admit it this time, like the man you claim to
>be?
>> > >>
>> > >> Admit what, susan?
>> > >>
>> > >> their website and done the search, you would have seen that
>> > >> the members are in agreement that the term "partial birth
>> > >> abortion" is merely an alarmist term coined by the
>> > >> anti-choice extremists. It refers to any abortion performed
>> > >> during the third trimester. Sorry, puke, you lose again.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> > > You really don't know what a pba is, do you sue?
>> > >>
>> > >> > Apparently, I have a better idea than you do. Why do YOU
>> > >> never question the people who lead you around by the nose?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> > > I'll give you a clue. It's found in the middle initial -
>> > >> no restrictions. Now go figure it out.
>> > >>
>> > >> > That's where the big lie is, puko. There is no birth
>> > >> involved. If there were, it would be illegal. Check your
>> > >> facts. Take more lithium before you do, though. Helps with
>> > >> that nasty bipolar stuff you suffer from.
>> > >>
>> > >> It's called delivering everything but the head, stabbing the baby in
>> > >> the back of the neck with a pair of scissors, sucking it's brains
>out,
>> > >> and completing the delivery of one dead baby.
>> > >>
>> > >delivered head first?
>> >
>> > this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
>> > read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
>> > facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
>> > describe this procedure correctly.
>> >
>
>thru your mind when you do see
>this procedure being done........ It dont bother you at all ???
>
Which procedure? Breech birth is what duke describes!
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Behold, behold,
The Lamb of God
As it skips and hops.
I know that soon
The Lamb of God
Will be the Lamb of chops Spike Milligan
Alan Ferris
>> "Darklady" <dark...@darklady.com> wrote ...>> >news:vr54ms8jq9fv0jd1t...@4ax.com...
>extended.....with those tools the doctors have.
>Im surprised they dont utilise plumbers tools just for convienance.....
>
Did you never attend any of the births of your children? Do you not
know that often they have to cut just to get the head through! Well
normally the shoulders come through one at a time, they are the widest
part of a baby and can only come through at an angle. But duke
describes a breach birth where the shoulders come through parallel.
On many women this will not fit and this is why breech births are so
dangerous! Come on Steve/Ed, having seen births you should also
realise that once the shoulders are out.....everything comes out. You
would not be able to stop with just the head in the vagina. The next
contraction would push it straight out.
Strange how people like Steve/Ed, claim to have so many children, yet
can remain so ignorant of simple childbirth!
Alan Ferris
>might not continue to preform these procedures. because of a threat of legal
>action against them........
>
>Time for you to catch up on the latest there PROFESsIONAL chump.....
Steve/Ed. When will you read it correctly. That was because the law
was so ambiguous it made it impossible for the Dr's to do the accepted
form of abortion as well! The law was designed to cover one type of
abortion only, but due to its being rushed through by the religious
lobby, it was badly written and therefore left perfectly accepted
practises also open to prosecution. That is why the supreme court
overturned it. You do not keep a law that would prosecute somebody
for doing something you did not intend to make illegal!
But keep writing these half truths Steve/Ed. Do not get the full
story. Remember what happens when people only have half the facts,
wars start!
Alan Ferris
>In article <vr54ms8jq9fv0jd1t...@4ax.com>,
> xa...@mistral.co.uk wrote:
>
>> >How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's are
>delivered head first?
>
>> They do not. They deliver a arm into the birth canal (vagina) and
>this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
>read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
>facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
>describe this procedure correctly.
>
>what is going on.
>
>They first turn the baby to deliver the feet first and then the rest of
>the body but not the head.
>
>it.
>
>It takes a disgusting, sick man to believe in pb abortions.
This is ignorance in the extreme! Even the pro-life sights are wise
enough to print the correct method. Only duke keeps pushing this
horrendously ignorant story!
Where did you find this description Duke? It is a hoot. Anybody who
knows even the simplest things about female anatomy and birth could
tell you why this is so ridiculous. I am tired of trying to tell you.
You seem happy to be in ignorance, so be it!
Alan Ferris
>> In article <vr54ms8jq9fv0jd1t...@4ax.com>,
>> xa...@mistral.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> > >How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's are
>> delivered head first?
>>
>> > They do not. They deliver a arm into the birth canal (vagina) and
>> this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
>> read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
>> facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
>> describe this procedure correctly.
>>
>> Sorry to pop your bubble, ferris, but you are pretty ignorant as to
>> what is going on.
>>
>> They first turn the baby to deliver the feet first and then the rest of
>> the body but not the head.
>>
>> That's so they can jam a pair of scissors into the baby's skull to kill
>> it.
>>
>> It takes a disgusting, sick man to believe in pb abortions.
>>
>
>But duke, isnt that exactly the type of persons were confronted by in here ?
Yes, you and Duke are certainly that. Only exceeded by craftless on a
bad day!
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suddenly, in a microsm of moment,
Unknown - earthbound me - was released
Into a moment where time stood still,
And I knew then who God was...it was me,
And I knew who made him...you. Spike Milligan
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Ferris
>> >delivered head first?
>>
>> They do not. They deliver a arm into the birth canal (vagina) and
>> this therefore brings the head next to the cervix. Duke should really
>> read the websites of the anti-abortion lobby if he wants to check the
>> facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
>> describe this procedure correctly.
>
>contraversy AMONGST the medical field YES including
>the AMA....... and the doctors that are affiliated with it........
>
>This is STILL a very contraversal subject WITHIN and WITHOUT the medical
>field....... and a most SENSITIVE ONE at that....
>
>But as we expect from the likes of you....... with your particular agenda,
>the jury has already dispersed..
Nobody is claiming that there is not controversy! Why is it you keep
trying to push what you want into other peoples posts! Read what they
write. Stop pushing your agenda.
What we disagree with is this delivery of all but the head. There is
no way you could keep the head in the vagina! Wake up Steve/Ed. You
claim to be a father!
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Behold, behold,
The Lamb of God
As it skips and hops.
I know that soon
The Lamb of God
Will be the Lamb of chops Spike Milligan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darklady
> > >>
> > >> Edward Croteau <granp...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > >> news:bWn85.29163$NP5.8...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > >> >
> go out as quickly as possible to once again spread her legs for THE
> ENJOYMENT and LUST of the SEXUAL ACT......
>
> Ed........................(OGT)
So, should women with deformed or dead fetuses wear a special hat so the
love filled Christians screaming at them will know that *their* abortion is
ok with Ed?
Not everyone agrees that a dead fetus should be removed surgically.
Any babies "bouncing arround" in the womb are probably in some sort of
distress. How can a man who claims to have gotten his wife pregnant so many
times have such a childish and ignorant view of the female reproductive
system?
Your last paragraph merely supports your ongoing policy of hating women,
hating pleasure, and hating sex unless it results in a pregnant woman. It
also continues your policy of blaming women for all things sexual and
ignores the many ways that people can share sexual enjoyment without risking
pregnancy.
You're a hateful man and I am looking forward to the day when your way
of thinking has died out.
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
Darklady
Karen H Jarvis <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:DPI85.17573$wB1.2...@news3.cableinet.net...
>
> "Steve" <granp...@earthlink.net> wrote .....
> once again spread her legs for THE ENJOYMENT and LUST of the SEXUAL
in
> the sexual act??
>
> For ED/STEVE, the woman is, presumably, spreading "her legs" for a MAN.
Why
> do you not condemn the man's part in all this?
>
> Karen
Because he did his godly duty and got the worthless, unappreciative
bitch pregnant. What more does he need to do? And then she runs out and
ruins god's great plan by getting an abortion. (Or so it goes in Edworld,
where women are evil unless they're pregnant and keeping their mouths shut
about it.)
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
Darklady
> > On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 17:05:31 GMT, duke <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> > >In article <8js70s$d1a$8...@dosa.alt.net>,
> > > St. Jackanapes <Jesus.H...@hellmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> > > The most disgusting thing a parent can do. Murder for his/her
own
> > >confort and convenience.
> > >
> > >> > You need to get out more, Duke.
> > >"The most disgusting thing a parent can do" is give birth to a child
and
> > >then systematically emotionall, physically and/or mentally abuse that
> > >child.
> > >
> > >> That's how we get the Ed's, Duke's and Adam J's of the world.
> > >
> > >Wrong. The worst and most disgusting and damning thing a person can do
> > >is kill it's own unborn for it's own comfort and convenience.
> >
> >
> > have never had sex with a female since Pius XII and Sister Pascalina
> > who lived together for so long. Cardinal Spellman not withstanding. Or
> > was it Spelly and Pacelli and Pascalina played the fag hag bit?
> >
> > And in case you forgot, you can not kill something that is not alive.
> > No matter how many times you say it, it can NOT happen. I thought you
> > knew that stuff. You talk like you know everything and can tell when
> > we are lying.
>
> And you know that all the aborted were dead before the abortionist went to
> work, and scoffed up the fetal tissues for
> these new experiments that are recently spoken of........... Little
science,
> lotta death......?
>
> Ed.....................(OGT)
Your pride in your ignorance is showing again, Ed-Steve.
There are very stringent laws regarding the handling of fetal tissue,
especially that to be used for medical research.
And while you're bad mouthing said research, please remember that some
of the folks who have benefited from it include OLD PEOPLE. It has
contributed to Alzheimer's research and a number of other medical projects
and procedures that provide tremendous relief to people who are very ill or
in great suffering. It might be better for you to think that although the
loss of those lives is tragic and unfortunate, at least in some way they are
helping others. Most people go through life without ever having contributed
to the well-being of others. In some small way their circumstances have
helped someone. It's not a perfect solution, but it's a way of taking
something sad and finding something positive.
I have no idea what you're raving about in the above paragraph, however.
I have no idea how doctors "scoffed up the fetal tissues" since I have no
idea how one "scoffs" something up. Nor do I understand what experiments you
seem to think most abortion doctors perform. Or are you simply trying to say
that the uses that the tissue will be put to are of "little science" and
therefore of no use?
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
Alan Ferris
>
>Darklady <dark...@darklady.com> wrote in message
>> > > > In article <Sal85.15411$wB1.1...@news3.cableinet.net>,
>> > > >
>> > > > > How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's
>are
>> > > > delivered head first?
>> > > >
>> > > > I'm glad you asked that question, kj.
>> > > >
>> > > > In a pba, the abortionist first turns the baby so that it comes out
>> > > > pair of scissors into the base of the neck, sucks the brains out,
>> > > > crushes the head, and guess what, delivers a poor and unfortunaely
>> dead
>> > > > baby.
>> > > >
>> > > > their poor baby that was dead at birth.
>> > > >
>> > > > Sick people. Animals. Lowest form of life. Disgusting people.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Karen
>> >
>> > Tut-tut tut there gal.... carefull about that, Must I remind you how you
>> > reffere to [certain] HUMAN BEINGS in here.
>> >
>>
>> True. In your case, you're a human being and a vegetable.
>
>But that would be impossible.... I thought a prominant writer such as you
>claim to be would be privey to that.
>But alas i see you really are not........ I guess that puts you sorta up in
>that catagory that MK finds himself, when it
>comes to his so called poetry..... remember him getting the bounce from some
>poets NG He must of really tore up the place, like he does in
>here..........LOL But hooray, they caned him........ told him OUT
>..........and off......LOL
>
are not paid to be a critic. But obviously people care what DL
thinks, that is why they pay her!
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suddenly, in a microsm of moment,
Unknown - earthbound me - was released
Into a moment where time stood still,
And I knew then who God was...it was me,
And I knew who made him...you. Spike Milligan
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darklady
> duke <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote ...
> >In article <cf54mscmfkpdb7vra...@4ax.com>,
> > xa...@mistral.co.uk wrote:
> >
> >> Is a baby born when it is still in the vagina? The babies arm is born
> >into the birth canal (vagina) Not out of the vagina, for that to
> >happen the head would be already past the cervix and you would be in
> >the middle of one horrendous birth!
> >
> >Don't you get it yet ferris. All of the baby is outside the mother
> >skull to kill it.
> >
> >Therefore it's not murder in the 1st degree punishable by death because
> >the head wasn't delivered yet.
> >
> >> So if the child is already dead it is murder? It is sometimes
> >performed on foetuses that die in the womb, but you people never want
> >to talk about those! Do you realise what the risks are to a woman
> >carrying a dead baby for another 3 months. Do you have any idea what
> >the fluid does to that corpse?
> >
> >Don't you understand that pba's are legal at full term. Sickly put, 1
> >undelivered baby head short of 1st degree murder.
>
> Then please provide the evidence. Point to one article in any
> publication that describes it as such. I take my description from a
> pro-life website and the Lancet. Care to tell me where you read your
> version? Do you realise that if all the body is out then you
> delivered a breach birth? Do you realise that you cannot prevent that
> head from coming out! Ask any gynecologist if it would be possible to
> pause at that stage!
I don't think Duke has clue one about what he's talking about
anatomically.
Maybe he thinks that the vaginal opening is right next to the cervix?
Where does he think the fetus spends its time? In the vagina? And then it
just slips out when it's ready to be born?
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
Darklady
Wow. Ed.
That's really grotesque. Even for you.
--
Darklady
http://www.darklady.com
arjay
> Darklady wrote ...
> > Edward Croteau wrote ...
> > > Alan Ferris wrote ...
> > > > "Darklady" wrote ...
> > > > >Alan Ferris wrote ...
> > > > >> "Karen H Jarvis" wrote ...
> > > > >> >"duke" wrote ...
> > > extended.....with those tools the doctors have.
> > > Im surprised they dont utilise plumbers tools just for convienance.....
> >
> > a fetus around in like it's on a lazy susan.
> > Yet another reason I doubt you're the father of even one child, let
> > alone nearly 20.
>
> Well if they wanna flatten the head, why not just go in with a miniture VICE
> and squash it.....?
Unspeakably ignorant, vile dolt! That's precisely what they /used/ to do --
and, in places where the so-called "pba" is beyond their technology or skills,
it is still done!
Ever hear of a fetal craniotomy?
It's the surgical perforation of the skull of a dead foetus to ease delivery --
and, very rarely, done when the fetal head is too large for the cervical opening
and delivery is too far along to permit a C-section as a life-saving
alternative.
When coninued labour would result in the death of both mother and infant,
craniotomies have been performed on living fetuses.
At least one life is saved.
> Would that make you feel all tingely inside
> Darkmoldy........?
What makes /you/ feel all tingly inside, Craniofaeces?
(No -- don't tell us.)
arjay
Karen H Jarvis
"arjay" wrote.......
> Darklady wrote ...
> > Edward Croteau wrote ...
> > > > "duke" wrote ...
> > > > >
> > > > > > How can one deliver "everything but the head", when most baby's
are
> > > > > delivered head first?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm glad you asked that question, kj.
> > > > >
> > > > > In a pba, the abortionist first turns the baby so that it comes
out
> > > > > feet first. It "delivers" all of the baby except it's head, stabs
> > > > > pair of scissors into the base of the neck, sucks the brains out,
> > > > > crushes the head, and guess what, delivers a poor and unfortunaely
> > > > > dead baby.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wherein mommie and daddie go home and cry and plan the funeral for
> > > > > their poor baby that was dead at birth.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sick people. Animals. Lowest form of life. Disgusting people.
> > > > >
> > > > Human beings ARE animals.
> > >
you
> > > reffere to [certain] HUMAN BEINGS in here.
> > >
> > > Ed.........................(OGT)
> >
> > True. In your case, you're a human being and a vegetable.
>
shock,
> after realizing OGT is related to them.
You could have stumbled on something here. Do you think that crop circles
could be a form of communication from the wheat? Sort of, "Please believe
us - we are not related to THAT".
Karen
> arjay
>
> > --
> > Darklady
> > http://www.darklady.com
>
>
Dave Snowden
wrote:
>"Karen H Jarvis" <kjne...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote ...
>>
>>"duke" <duk...@my-deja.com> wrote ....
>>> In article <cf54mscmfkpdb7vra...@4ax.com>,
>>> xa...@mistral.co.uk wrote:
>>>
>>> > Is a baby born when it is still in the vagina? The babies arm is born
>>> into the birth canal (vagina) Not out of the vagina, for that to
>>> happen the head would be already past the cervix and you would be in
>>> the middle of one horrendous birth!
>>>
>>> Don't you get it yet ferris. All of the baby is outside the mother
>>> except the head. That's when they jam a pair of scissors into it's
>>> skull to kill it.
I can just visualize those 2 foot long pointy scissors THEY jam up the
woman's vagina that go right to their intended task and don't cut
anything else. IT MUST BE A MIRACLE. So a D&E or a D&X is HOLY because
the Holy Spirit guides the scissors to their intended target!
Yup, if dukie knows about it must be so because he knows everything
and he never lies.
>>
>>Do you understand anything about female anatomy?? The baby is NOT outside
>>the mother.
>
>Well apart from tweaking the nipples of young girls he did claim to be
>a virgin and not knowledgeable on the subject!
Well then he is not a catholic priest because they are not virgins.
=============================
[intentionally left blank]
Karen H Jarvis
> > > xa...@mistral.co.uk wrote:
> > >
> > >> Is a baby born when it is still in the vagina? The babies arm is
born
> > >into the birth canal (vagina) Not out of the vagina, for that to
> > >happen the head would be already past the cervix and you would be in
> > >the middle of one horrendous birth!
> > >
> > >Don't you get it yet ferris. All of the baby is outside the mother
> > >except the head. That's when they jam a pair of scissors into it's
> > >skull to kill it.
> > >
> > >the head wasn't delivered yet.
> > >
> > >> So if the child is already dead it is murder? It is sometimes
> > >performed on foetuses that die in the womb, but you people never want
> > >to talk about those! Do you realise what the risks are to a woman
> > >carrying a dead baby for another 3 months. Do you have any idea what
> > >the fluid does to that corpse?
> > >
> > >Don't you understand that pba's are legal at full term. Sickly put, 1
> > >undelivered baby head short of 1st degree murder.
> >
> > Then please provide the evidence. Point to one article in any
> > publication that describes it as such. I take my description from a
> > pro-life website and the Lancet. Care to tell me where you read your
> > version? Do you realise that if all the body is out then you
> > delivered a breach birth? Do you realise that you cannot prevent that
> > head from coming out! Ask any gynecologist if it would be possible to
> > pause at that stage!
>
> I don't think Duke has clue one about what he's talking about
> anatomically.
> Maybe he thinks that the vaginal opening is right next to the cervix?
> Where does he think the fetus spends its time? In the vagina? And then it
> just slips out when it's ready to be born?
>
Karen
> --
> Darklady
> http://www.darklady.com
>
>
>
Karen H Jarvis
"Alan Ferris" <xa...@mistral.co.uk> wrote .....
Karen H Jarvis
> >> In article <cf54mscmfkpdb7vra...@4ax.com>,
> >> xa...@mistral.co.uk wrote:
> >>
> >> > Is a baby born when it is still in the vagina? The babies arm is
born
> >> into the birth canal (vagina) Not out of the vagina, for that to
> >> happen the head would be already past the cervix and you would be in
> >> the middle of one horrendous birth!
> >>
> >> Don't you get it yet ferris. All of the baby is outside the mother
> >> except the head. That's when they jam a pair of scissors into it's
> >> skull to kill it.
> >
outside
> >the mother.
>
> Well apart from tweaking the nipples of young girls he did claim to be
> a virgin and not knowledgeable on the subject!
>
Karen H Jarvis
Karen H Jarvis
> >>
> >> "Alan Ferris" <xa...@mistral.co.uk> wrote.....
> >> > facts on this. The leading ones (not the fundie kill Dr.'s ones)
> >> > describe this procedure correctly.
> >> >
> >
> >Ya know Karen when I think of you as a mother.. I wonder now just what
goes
> >thru your mind when you do see
> >this procedure being done........ It dont bother you at all ???
> >
> >Steve........................(OGT)
>
> Which procedure? Breech birth is what duke describes!
>
Bob Pease
muthah) Snerd
He actually DID the aside, being too stupid to realize that
I PREDICTED it in the last paragraph!!
Yowie Zowie !!!
Bob Pease <bobp...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:8juf7l$8...@chronicle.concentric.net...
>
> > >Wrong. The worst and most disgusting and damning thing a person can do
> > >is kill it's own unborn for it's own comfort and convenience.
> >
> >
> Even IF duck has a point, He dulls his sword by APOSTROPHE RAPE.
> Possessive : its
>
> Contraction for "it is" : it's
>
> If someone isn't careful enough to learn proper usage, then what else are
> they careless about??
> looking stuff up??
> Sentence fragments with colloquialisms in them??
>
> Heavy bullshit demands at least good grammar to increase credibility.
>
> aside from mortimer ducksteveteck
> "Duh That means he do heavy bullshit ,,,hyar, hyar, "
>
>
>
>
Alan Ferris
>> > xa...@mistral.co.uk wrote:
>> >
>> >> Is a baby born when it is still in the vagina? The babies arm is born
>> >into the birth canal (vagina) Not out of the vagina, for that to
>> >happen the head would be already past the cervix and you would be in
>> >the middle of one horrendous birth!
>> >
>> >Don't you get it yet ferris. All of the baby is outside the mother
>> >except the head. That's when they jam a pair of scissors into it's
>> >skull to kill it.
>> >
>> >the head wasn't delivered yet.
>> >
>> >> So if the child is already dead it is murder? It is sometimes
>> >performed on foetuses that die in the womb, but you people never want
>> >to talk about those! Do you realise what the risks are to a woman
>> >carrying a dead baby for another 3 months. Do you have any idea what
>> >the fluid does to that corpse?
>> >
>> >Don't you understand that pba's are legal at full term. Sickly put, 1
>> >undelivered baby head short of 1st degree murder.
>>
>> Then please provide the evidence. Point to one article in any
>> publication that describes it as such. I take my description from a
>> pro-life website and the Lancet. Care to tell me where you read your
>> version? Do you realise that if all the body is out then you
>> delivered a breach birth? Do you realise that you cannot prevent that
>> head from coming out! Ask any gynecologist if it would be possible to
>> pause at that stage!
>
> I don't think Duke has clue one about what he's talking about
>anatomically.
> Maybe he thinks that the vaginal opening is right next to the cervix?
>Where does he think the fetus spends its time? In the vagina? And then it
>just slips out when it's ready to be born?
Obviously none of those young tender children let him get lower than
tweaking their nipples. He is obviously still confused. Probably
thought sex education was a sin so skipped that too!
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When the only colour is black -
the only sound
the broken bell
THEN talk to me about why. Spike Milligan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Ferris
Nooooo, messy squeamish stuff!!
I still today find childbirth squeamish and not pleasant!
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Behold, behold,
The Lamb of God
As it skips and hops.
I know that soon
The Lamb of God
Will be the Lamb of chops Spike Milligan
Alan Ferris
Bet Steve/Ed was glad that they never used to let the fathers in!!
Karen H Jarvis
"Alan Ferris" wrote.....