Writes the hatchet man
Graham Weeks
make him a role model for our kids. The lasting legacy of this sad
era in American life ought to be a sober reminder that the ends do
not justify the means. Integrity means doing the right thing in
every area of your life, and it's the real mark of a true hero. -
Charles Colson ,The return of Watergate,June 6, 2005
--
Graham J Weeks M.R.Pharm.S.
http://www.weeks-g.dircon.co.uk/ Graham's Homepage
10201 quotes 654 topics 2452 authors indexed 903 links
http://www.donkeyworks.com/ipc/ Our church
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John Bonanno
"Graham Weeks" <weeks-...@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:42A61B39...@dircon.co.uk...
> Let Mark Felt live his remaining years in peace, but please, don't
> make him a role model for our kids. The lasting legacy of this sad
> era in American life ought to be a sober reminder that the ends do
> not justify the means. Integrity means doing the right thing in
> every area of your life, and it's the real mark of a true hero. -
> Charles Colson ,The return of Watergate,June 6, 2005
> --
> Graham J Weeks M.R.Pharm.S.
Charles Colson is the epitome of duplicity.
His Christian stance is nothing more than another scam. I met him many
years ago and felt the need to bathe immediately.
He was one of the dirtiest and darkest Nixonites and his conversion and his
prison ministry is typical of the criminal who finds the Lord to dupe the
Christians he now bilks.
"Mark Felt could have stopped Watergate. Instead, he goes out and basically
undermines the administration." Chuck Colson
Gee, couldn't Chuck have stopped Watergate?
Felt was acting in the interests of the FBI (as the old timers saw it) when
he dropped the dime on Nixon to the Washington Post.
The FBI was bugging Nixon while he was bugging himself. They knew about
Nixon's tapes so they didn't have to admit Hoover had been bugging Nixon.
It's a beautiful thing.
The Passion tells the story of the twelve hours surrounding the Crucifixion.
While The Passion is only the latest in a series of films about Jesus, it
stands out for two reasons: First, it is unsparing and unsentimental. In
Gibson's opinion, previous cinematic efforts had failed to capture the
enormity of Jesus' suffering on our behalf. -Chuck Colson
"As Chuck Colson pointed out at yesterday's Pastors' Briefing, when you mix
young people who grew up on a steady diet of MTV and pornography with a
prison environment, you get the abuse at Abu Ghraib." Family Research
Council President, Tony Perkins
Véritable Rosbif
"John Bonanno" <adi...@reeemoooveadelphia.net> wrote in message
news:7cKdnYDZFNm...@adelphia.com...
>
> "Mark Felt could have stopped Watergate. Instead, he goes out and
> basically undermines the administration." Chuck Colson
>
> Gee, couldn't Chuck have stopped Watergate?
> Felt was acting in the interests of the FBI (as the old timers saw it)
> when he dropped the dime on Nixon to the Washington Post.
> The FBI was bugging Nixon while he was bugging himself. They knew about
> Nixon's tapes so they didn't have to admit Hoover had been bugging Nixon.
> It's a beautiful thing.
Exactly. The bare-faced hypocrisy of Colson and others is that of the man
who defends a rape with "she said no, but I knew she really meant yes". Had
Mark Felt nobly resigned and gone public, he would have been derided,
discredited, briefed against, trashed and forgotten - at best. His
influence would have amounted to just one shot at multiple moving targets.
By providing a running insight on what was happening, and why, he was able
to steer the Washington Post and America towards the truth. Watergate was a
disgusting interlude, with disgusting people doing disgusting things to
perpetuate the disgraceful presidency of a disgusting man. Nixon achieved a
few notable and commendable things, but he and his loathsome crew are, and
will always be, rightly vilified for Watergate. They broke the 11th
Commandment; they were found out.
I am re-reading Gitta Sereny's superb book on Albert Speer, and I see
parallels in the hypnotised devotion of Nixon's [and, to be fair, other
politicians'] circle of cronies to that of Hitler's closest confidants.
ObQ
I welcome this opportunity of pricking the bloated bladder of lies with the
poniard of truth.
Aneurin Bevan
[Er, he was speaking of Winston Churchill, but the phrase is nevertheless a
good one]
The Sanity Inspector
Rosbif" <gpvacheq...@yahoo.fr> shared with usenet this
thought...:
>
>"John Bonanno" <adi...@reeemoooveadelphia.net> wrote in message
>news:7cKdnYDZFNm...@adelphia.com...
>>
>> "Mark Felt could have stopped Watergate. Instead, he goes out and
>> basically undermines the administration." Chuck Colson
>>
>> Gee, couldn't Chuck have stopped Watergate?
> Had
>Mark Felt nobly resigned and gone public, he would have been derided,
>discredited, briefed against, trashed and forgotten - at best.
That's right, just like Linda Tripp was, for her role in exposing Bill
Clinton's obstruction of justice.
Obquote:
Laws are like cobwebs, which may catch small flies, but let
wasps and hornets break through.
-- Swift
--
bruce
The dignified don't even enter in the game.
-- The Jam
David C Kifer
> That's right, just like Linda Tripp was, for her role in exposing Bill
> Clinton's obstruction of justice.
My only regret is that Mark Felt did not rat out Nixon because he was ticked
off about rapprochement with China or detente with the Soviets.
Rather more prosaically, Felt leaked details of the Watergate investigation
to the Washington Post only because he had lost a job promotion – making him the
Richard Clarke of the Watergate era. This will come as small consolation to the
Cambodians and Vietnamese tortured and slaughtered as a direct result of Nixon's
fall. Oh, well. At least we got a good movie and Jimmy Carter out of it.
Still, it must pain liberals to be praising an FBI man who ordered illegal
searches of their old pals in the Weather Underground in the early '70s. For
those searches, Felt was later prosecuted by the Carter administration.
-- Ann Coulter, Woodward does Washington
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44669
--
Dave
"Tam multi libri, tam breve tempus!"
(Et brevis pecunia.) [Et breve spatium.]
alohacyberian
news:d86hp2$46l$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
> I am re-reading Gitta Sereny's superb book on Albert Speer, and I see
> parallels in the hypnotised devotion of Nixon's [and, to be fair, other
> politicians'] circle of cronies to that of Hitler's closest confidants.
>
Give me a break - only a few people in history could even approach the
horrors of Hitler and Nixon isn't one of them, though other venerated leaders
of the Left such as Josef Stalin and Mao Zedong bested Hitler in spades while
other darlings of the Left such as Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Saddam
Hussein, Fidel Castro etc. have tried hard to best Hitler, but, have fallen
far short even if they far surpass the simple sins of Richard Nixon. One
would have to be a wacko at best and off his rocker at worst to compare Nixon
and associates to Hitler and cronies. Leftist hyperbole knows no bounds and
that's probably why prudent people ignore such pernicious propaganda. KM
"Don't tell fish stories where the people know you; but particularly, don't
tell them where they know the fish."
~ Mark Twain
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/[
Véritable Rosbif
"alohacyberian" <alohac...@att.net> wrote in message
news:h9Spe.300305$cg1.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "Véritable Rosbif" <gpvacheq...@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:d86hp2$46l$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>>
>> I am re-reading Gitta Sereny's superb book on Albert Speer, and I see
>> parallels in the hypnotised devotion of Nixon's [and, to be fair, other
>> politicians'] circle of cronies to that of Hitler's closest confidants.
>>
>
> Give me a break - only a few people in history could even approach the
> horrors of Hitler and Nixon isn't one of them, though other venerated
> leaders of the Left such as Josef Stalin and Mao Zedong bested Hitler in
> spades while other darlings of the Left such as Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, Ho
> Chi Minh, Saddam Hussein, Fidel Castro etc. have tried hard to best
> Hitler, but, have fallen far short even if they far surpass the simple
> sins of Richard Nixon. One would have to be a wacko at best and off his
> rocker at worst to compare Nixon and associates to Hitler and cronies.
> Leftist hyperbole knows no bounds and that's probably why prudent people
> ignore such pernicious propaganda. KM
I was only commenting on the hypnotic effect of the presence and exercise of
extreme political power. I was making no qualitative or quantitative
judgement on comparative evils. Unlike his colleagues, Speer had the
opportunity of 20 years in Spandau, and a further 14 years of liberty in old
age, to reflect on the consequential horrors of Nazism. It is a good thing
that Mao is now [only now] being exposed as one of the most inhumane of
dictators, utterly careless of human life and whose 'score' is many times
that of the rest of the scoundrels. The Jung Chang/Jon Halliday biography
has been published in UK this week, but I don't know if we're pre- or
post-US publication. The excerpts are chilling.
Leftist [and rightist] hyperbole knows no bounds and that's probably why
prudent people ignore such pernicious propaganda.
ObQ
Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious.
Josef Goebbels
PollyC
> "Véritable Rosbif" wrote in message
>>parallels in the hypnotised devotion of Nixon's [and, to be fair, other
>>politicians'] circle of cronies to that of Hitler's closest confidants.
> Give me a break - only a few people in history could even approach the
> horrors of Hitler and Nixon isn't one of them, though other venerated leaders
> of the Left such as Josef Stalin and Mao Zedong bested Hitler in spades while
> other darlings of the Left such as Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Saddam
> Hussein, Fidel Castro etc. have tried hard to best Hitler, but, have fallen
> far short even if they far surpass the simple sins of Richard Nixon.
_____________________
Surely the poster was commenting on the phenomenon of devotion of
confidants, NOT acts of horror by any leader?
OBQ
Knee-jerk reactions are best left to talk radio.
~James Walsh, S.J.
I have only one confidant, and that is the silence of night. Why is it
my confidant? Because it remains silent.
~ Søren Kierkegaard 1813-1855
--
PollyC
John Bonanno
"The Sanity Inspector" <syna...@THETRASHhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6vafa19oh8k7gf1du...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 10:37:22 +0000 (UTC) in alt.quotations, "Véritable
> Rosbif" <gpvacheq...@yahoo.fr> shared with usenet this
> thought...:
>
>>
>>"John Bonanno" <adi...@reeemoooveadelphia.net> wrote in message
>>news:7cKdnYDZFNm...@adelphia.com...
>>>
>>> "Mark Felt could have stopped Watergate. Instead, he goes out and
>>> basically undermines the administration." Chuck Colson
>>>
>>> Gee, couldn't Chuck have stopped Watergate?
>> Had
>>Mark Felt nobly resigned and gone public, he would have been derided,
>>discredited, briefed against, trashed and forgotten - at best.
>
> That's right, just like Linda Tripp was, for her role in exposing Bill
> Clinton's obstruction of justice.
>
Watergate was an assault on Democracy.
Bill Clinton was a blowjob.
Get over it.
"You are in more dire need of a blowjob than any white man in history."
Cronauer, "Good Morning, Vietnam"
SteveMR200
<h9Spe.300305$cg1.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>:
>"Véritable Rosbif" <gpvacheq...@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
>news:d86hp2$46l$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>>
>> I am re-reading Gitta Sereny's superb book on Albert Speer, and I see
>> parallels in the hypnotised devotion of Nixon's [and, to be fair, other
>> politicians'] circle of cronies to that of Hitler's closest confidants.
>>
>
>Give me a break - only a few people in history could even approach the
>horrors of Hitler and Nixon isn't one of them, though other venerated leaders
>of the Left such as Josef Stalin and Mao Zedong bested Hitler in spades while
>other darlings of the Left such as Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Saddam
>Hussein, Fidel Castro etc. have tried hard to best Hitler, but, have fallen
>far short even if they far surpass the simple sins of Richard Nixon. KM
Hitler killed more than twenty million. Stalin
fifty million. Mao Tse-tung as many as a hundred
million. More recently, two million had been
murdered in Sudan, another two million in Rwanda.
The list of holocausts went on and on.
In the name of religion or political justice, in the
pursuit of a better world through one ideology or
another, mass graves had been filled, and who among
the murderers had ever been punished, aside from a
few Nazis convicted at the Nuremberg trials more
than half a century ago?
--Dean Koontz (1945- )
_The Taking_ [2004], Chapter 67
--
Steve
David C Kifer
> On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 07:25:01 GMT, alohacyberian wrote in message:
> <h9Spe.300305$cg1.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>:
>
>
>>"Véritable Rosbif" <gpvacheq...@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
>>news:d86hp2$46l$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>>
>>>I am re-reading Gitta Sereny's superb book on Albert Speer, and I see
>>>parallels in the hypnotised devotion of Nixon's [and, to be fair, other
>>>politicians'] circle of cronies to that of Hitler's closest confidants.
>>>
>>
>>Give me a break - only a few people in history could even approach the
>>horrors of Hitler and Nixon isn't one of them, though other venerated leaders
>>of the Left such as Josef Stalin and Mao Zedong bested Hitler in spades while
>>other darlings of the Left such as Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Saddam
>>Hussein, Fidel Castro etc. have tried hard to best Hitler, but, have fallen
>>far short even if they far surpass the simple sins of Richard Nixon. KM
The reason, of course, is that Nazi Germany was completely defeated militarily.
None of the others in that list have been, except Saddam Hussein, who is about
to face a trial and punishment of his own. The Left, and too often, the Right,
would rather not force "regime change" just to prevent further horror.
When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one,
an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.
-- Edmund Burke, pamphlet, _Thoughts on the Cause of the Present Discontents_ (1770)
alohacyberian
>
> I was only commenting on the hypnotic effect of the presence and exercise
> of extreme political power. I was making no qualitative or quantitative
> judgement on comparative evils. Unlike his colleagues, Speer had the
> opportunity of 20 years in Spandau, and a further 14 years of liberty in
> old age, to reflect on the consequential horrors of Nazism.
(the American Constitution being what it is) on a par with Adolf Hitler is
still silly. While Hitler seemed to possess hypnotic power over the masses
prior to becoming a dictator, I wasn't aware that Nixon ever had anything
resembling "hypnotic" power over the masses. As for their powers over their
subordinates and cronies, Hitler's strongest holding power was probably far
from "hypnotic" by the time he became chancellor, it was more likely
"terror". KM
OBQ:
"Power does not corrupt men; fools, however, if they get into a position of
power, corrupt power."
~ George Bernard Shaw - perhaps with apologies to Lord Acton...
Véritable Rosbif
> To suggest that Richard Nixon enjoyed an "extreme" degree of political
> power (the American Constitution being what it is) on a par with Adolf
> Hitler is still silly. While Hitler seemed to possess hypnotic power over
> the masses prior to becoming a dictator, I wasn't aware that Nixon ever
> had anything resembling "hypnotic" power over the masses. As for their
> powers over their subordinates and cronies, Hitler's strongest holding
> power was probably far from "hypnotic" by the time he became chancellor,
> it was more likely "terror". KM
Look, I wasn't going to bother any more, but are you being wilfully obtuse?
The President of the United States is the head of state of the world's
dominant power, and it was the dominant power even in the Nixon years. The
President has the freedom to wage both overt [Vietnam, Iraq] and covert
[Cambodia, Nicaragua] war, to fund terrorists [Afghanistan, Iraq,
Iran-Contras] to authorise anticipatory military actions [Bay of Pigs] and
assassinations [Allende, Mossadegh, Lumumba, Castro (failed), Gaddhafi
(failed)], to lie and dissemble [Gulf of Tonkin incidents] in defence of his
country and in pursuit of his policy. He has, by any measure, "extreme"
political power - and it is notable that most presidents exercise that power
prudently and responsibly, for which the rest of the world is duly grateful.
The point at issue during Watergate was the determination among the the
president's stooges to disregard the law, the Constitution, conventional
morality, popular censure and every other norm in their bid to get Nixon
re-elected.
I emphatically did not suggest that Nixon was able to hypnotise the masses.
I drew a specific parallel between the unquestioning loyalty of Hitler's
cronies with that of Nixon's yes-men - and doubtless many other politicians'
inner-core of servants - to do manifest wrong in the furtherance of the
leader's policy, and not to see the iniquity of their actions. Thank all
the gods that Nixon was such a pitiful public performer, because if his
warped morality had indeed been coupled with real demagogic skill there's a
fighting chance the Earth would now be a dead lump of smoking rubble.
ObQ
The ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination.
Voltaire
alohacyberian
>
> "alohacyberian" <alohac...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:ne9qe.925526$w62.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> To suggest that Richard Nixon enjoyed an "extreme" degree of political
>> power (the American Constitution being what it is) on a par with Adolf
>> Hitler is still silly. While Hitler seemed to possess hypnotic power over
>> the masses prior to becoming a dictator, I wasn't aware that Nixon ever
>> had anything resembling "hypnotic" power over the masses. As for their
>> powers over their subordinates and cronies, Hitler's strongest holding
>> power was probably far from "hypnotic" by the time he became chancellor,
>> it was more likely "terror". KM
>
> Look, I wasn't going to bother any more, but are you being wilfully obtuse?
> The President of the United States is the head of state of the world's
> dominant power, and it was the dominant power even in the Nixon years.
ways Congress wields far more power as mentioned in the Constitution..
Comparing Nixon to Hitler only demonstrates your ignorance of either Hitler
or Nixon - if not both. KM
OBQ:
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
~ William Shakespeare, _Hamlet_ (III, ii, 239)
Véritable Rosbif
> The "head" of the United States isn't a totalitarian dictator and in many
> ways Congress wields far more power as mentioned in the Constitution..
> Comparing Nixon to Hitler only demonstrates your ignorance of either
> Hitler or Nixon - if not both. KM
<sigh> Reworked, for the hard of thinking:
The president *is* your head of state.
I *didn't* say, or even suggest, that Nixon was a totalitarian dictator.
I *didn't* make any comparative inferences about the power of Congress.
Neither Congress not the Constitution stopped Watergate.
Nixon's people did all they could to inhibit the subsequent enquiry, out of
a distorted loyalty to him.
Several of them went to jail, essentially for their contempt for the law and
their abuse of power.
I *never* compared Nixon to Hitler [or Stalin, or Mao, or Pol Pot, or Enver
Hoxha, or Kim Jong Il, or Pinochet, or the Wizard of Oz for that matter], a
suggestion which as crass and tasteless as it is foolish.
Many analyses of German politics of the C20 make specific reference to the
hypnotic nature of Hitler's influence over his cronies, enabling him to
retain their unswerving loyalty over 22 years.
I was making a considered point about the danger of a warped morality
arising from proximity to extreme political power, a degree of power which
is undoubtedly possessed by every US president - and responsibly exercised
by most of them.
ObQ
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have
to say something.
Plato
PollyC
>
> The "head" of the United States isn't a totalitarian dictator and in many
> ways Congress wields far more power as mentioned in the Constitution..
> Comparing Nixon to Hitler only demonstrates your ignorance of either Hitler
> or Nixon - if not both. KM
The two Keiths make the same error. They equate any commentary on the
similarity in political climate pre-Nazi Germany and current US
Administrative decisions with making comparative judgements on the evils
of the Holocaust and current issues at Guantanamo Bay.
To make such assumptions is missing the whole point.
Of course countless differences may be listed between Hitler and
President Bush, most of which are to the credit of Bush. Nevertheless,
the resemblances listed here are striking, especially since Bush’s first
term in office must be compared with Hitler’s performance as German
Chancellor through the year 1937, preceding the chain of events
immediately preceding World War II. In any case, George W. Bush seems
the worst and most dangerous U.S. president in recent memory (for me
since Roosevelt)--if not in the entire history of the United States.
~Edward Jayne, 31 Similarities Between Hitler and President Bush
(August 29, 2004)
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles3/Jayne_Hitler-Bush.htm
btw Hitler was democratically elected as Chancellor of Germany, wasn't
he? <s>
> OBQ:
> "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
> ~ William Shakespeare, _Hamlet_ (III, ii, 239)
Funny, I think of Véritable Rosbif as male...but what would *I* know. <s>
But Rosbif, I'm sure, is like me in that he/she doesn't mind being
criticised for what we do say, but not for what we don't say!
obq rosbif quote
Incidentally my mother-in-law (she may still be about for all I know)
was Austrian. We old truckers always refer to them as super kr---s.
This pom, rosbif, limey, white trash does not object to this type
referral, but one cannot be too careful. Incidentally I thought the old
bugger would see 150.
~ on a UK forum discussing mothers-in-law
--
PollyC
Véritable Rosbif
"PollyC" <ora...@optusnetXCAPS.com.au> wrote in message
news:42aeb54f$0$23960$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
He probably assumes that I must be female [but I'm not] because I argue my
case calmly, politely, intelligently, logically, effectively, devastatingly
and without bluster, pomposity or childish invective. I suspect that, above
all, however, he's led to that conclusion by my extreme modesty!
ObQ
There is no female mind. The brain is not an organ of sex. As well speak
of a female liver.
Charlotte Perkins Gilman
Amazing Grace
If Watergate Happened Now
With the GOP controlling Congress, there'd be no Watergate hearings.
By Jonathan Alter
Newsweek
June 13 issue - From a distance, Watergate seems like a partisan affair.
But that's because we tend to look at it nowadays through red- and
blue-tinted glasses. In truth, President Nixon was forced to resign in
1974 by Republicans in Congress like Barry Goldwater, who realized from
the so-called smoking-gun tape that he was a crook. This was after the
Supreme Court—led by a Nixon appointee—unanimously ruled against him in
the tapes case.
But imagine if Nixon were president in this era. After he completed his
successful second term, I'd have to write a retrospective column like this:
President Nixon left office in 2005 having proved me and the other
"nattering nabobs of negativism" wrong. We thought that his
administration was sleazy but we were never able to nail him. Those of
us who hoped it would end differently knew we were in trouble when
former Nixon media adviser Roger Ailes banned the word "Watergate" from
Fox News's coverage and went with the logo "Assault on the Presidency"
instead. By that time, the American people figured both sides were just
spinning, and a tie always goes to the incumbent.
The big reason Nixon didn't have to resign: the rise of Conservative
Media, which features Fox, talk radio and a bunch of noisy partisans on
the Internet and best-sellers list who almost never admit their side
does anything wrong. (Liberals, bycontrast, are always eating their
own.) This solidarity came in handy when Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein
of The Washington Post began snooping around after the break-in at the
headquarters of the Democratic National Committee. Once they scored a
few scoops with the help of anonymous sources, Sean Hannity et al. went
on a rampage. When the young reporters printed an article about grand
jury testimony that turned out to be wrong, Drudge and the bloggers had
a field day, even though none of them had lifted a finger to try to
advance the story. After that, the Silent Majority wouldn't shut up.
Some argue the Watergate story died right there, but Nixon's attorney
general wasn't taking any chances. Just as in the Valerie Plame case,
the Justice Department subpoenaed Woodward and Bernstein to testify
before the grand jury about their sources. When they declined, they were
jailed for 18 months on contempt charges. Talkingpointsmemo.com and a
few other liberal bloggers complained that it was hypocritical—top White
House aides were suspected of shredding documents, suborning perjury and
paying hush money to burglars—but to no avail. Public support for the
media had hit rock bottom.
Whistle-blowers didn't fare much better. With Woodward and Bernstein out
of business, the No. 2 man at the FBI, W. Mark Felt, held a press
conference to air complaints that the White House and his own boss were
impeding the FBI probe. Of course it was only a one-day story, with Ann
Coulter predictably screaming that Felt was a "traitor." Rush Limbaugh
dubbed Felt "Special Agent Sour Grapes" because he'd been passed over
for the top FBI job. Within hours, the media had moved on to the tale of
a runaway bride. And because both houses of Congress are controlled by
the GOP, there were no "Watergate" hearings to keep the probe going.
John Dean and other disgruntled former aides had no place to go.
For a while, I hoped that the Nixon tapes might bring some justice. But
soon the tapes just became more fodder for those legal shows on cable.
The Supreme Court split 5-4, along largely partisan lines, as it did in
Bush vs. Gore. That allowed Nixon to keep control of the tapes. When he
burned them, the bipartisan outcry you would have heard in the old days
over destruction of evidence was muffled by a ferocious counterattack
from the GOP's legion of spinners. A group calling itself "Watergate
Burglars for Truth" set up a 527 to argue that Bill Clinton and other
Democratic presidents had ordered more black-bag jobs than Nixon. There
was nothing to prove them wrong. Reports of a tape showing that Nixon
directly ordered the cover-up were just rumors, not anything that could
be posted on smokinggun.com.
Nixon gave a TV interview to the British journalist David Frost in which
he said, "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." This
explained why he felt comfortable approving the break-in at the office
of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist. Ken Duberstein and a few other
principled Republicans weighed in that Nixon was bad news, but they were
drowned out by former aides like Pat Buchanan and G. Gordon Liddy, who
wanted to firebomb the Brookings Institution. When "Firebombing
Brookings: Good Idea or Not?" became the "Question of the Day" on MSNBC,
Liddy's radio show got a nice ratings boost. After Ralph Reed disclosed
that Nixon and Henry Kissinger had been on their knees praying in the
Oval Office, Nixon went up 15 points in the Gallup, double among "people
of faith." Our long national nightmare was just beginning.
© 2005 Newsweek, Inc.
© 2005 MSNBC.com
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8101512/site/newsweek/
Véritable Rosbif wrote:
SNIP
David C Kifer
> alohacyberian wrote:
>
>>
>> The "head" of the United States isn't a totalitarian dictator and in
>> many ways Congress wields far more power as mentioned in the
>> Constitution.. Comparing Nixon to Hitler only demonstrates your
>> ignorance of either Hitler or Nixon - if not both. KM
>
>
> The two Keiths make the same error. They equate any commentary on the
> similarity in political climate pre-Nazi Germany and current US
> Administrative decisions with making comparative judgements on the evils
> of the Holocaust and current issues at Guantanamo Bay.
> To make such assumptions is missing the whole point.
Difficult to think such assumptions are false when one is also bombarded with
comparisons of "Gitmo" to both the Holocaust and the Gulag.
Gitmo quote, graphic edition:
http://daybydaycartoon.com/
[June 14 strip]
PollyC
>>The two Keiths make the same error. They equate any commentary on the
>>similarity in political climate pre-Nazi Germany and current US
>>Administrative decisions with making comparative judgements on the evils
>>of the Holocaust and current issues at Guantanamo Bay.
>>To make such assumptions is missing the whole point.
> Difficult to think such assumptions are false when one is also bombarded with
> comparisons of "Gitmo" to both the Holocaust and the Gulag.
_________________________
To make those assumptions about the intent of post/commentary in AQ is
missing the point.
Perhaps I should have spelt that out.
I have no idea what the two Keiths are perusing in their spare time,
which influences their responses.
That said we have been told continually for 60 years to be
ever-vigilant, haven't we? Maybe folk are *jumpy*?
OBQ
Assumptions are the termites of relationships. I wrote that.
~ Henry Winkler 1945-, speech, Emerson College Graduation, 1995
--
PollyC
________________________
Violette Harte
> He probably assumes that I must be female [but I'm not] because I argue my
> case calmly, politely, intelligently, logically, effectively, devastatingly
> and without bluster, pomposity or childish invective.
__________________________
You are obviously also EXTREMELY perceptive and sensitive. Are you
single, Véritable Rosbif ?
<sigh>
OBQ
When Charlotte really liked a guy, she said his whole name -- it helped
her to imagine their future monogrammed towels.
~ dialogue, Sex and The City [Carrie]
--
Violette Harte
__________________
alohacyberian
> He probably assumes that I must be female [but I'm not] because I argue my
> case calmly, politely, intelligently, logically, effectively, devastatingly
>
He pompously blusters. ;-) KM
OBQ:
"The vanity of teaching doth oft tempt a man to forget that he is a
blockhead."
~ George Savile, Marquess de Halifax
alohacyberian
> "alohacyberian" <alohac...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:jJvre.953159$w62.7...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> arising from proximity to extreme political power, a degree of power which
> is undoubtedly possessed by every US president - and responsibly exercised
> by most of them.
>
like and who is someone who hasn't gained your approval. ;-) And in your
indignant discourse you toss around names like "Hitler" and then claim no
hyperbole! Amazing. KM
OBQ:
"To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing."
~ Elbert Hubbard
alohacyberian
just that Shakespeare's remark used the female gender and the point remains
the same: methinks he doth protest too much. And I'll also take issue with
Charlotte: the female brain (at least in human beings) is physiologically
different from the male brain. KM
OBQ:
"In every work of genius, we recognize our own rejected thoughts; they come
back to us with a certian alienated majesty."
~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
alohacyberian
news:d8n2f...@news3.newsguy.com...
> PollyC dipped mouse in ink and wrote:
>> alohacyberian wrote:
>>> The "head" of the United States isn't a totalitarian dictator and in many
>>> ways Congress wields far more power as mentioned in the Constitution..
>>> Comparing Nixon to Hitler only demonstrates your ignorance of either
>>> Hitler or Nixon - if not both. KM
>>
>> The two Keiths make the same error. They equate any commentary on the
>> similarity in political climate pre-Nazi Germany and current US
>> Administrative decisions with making comparative judgements on the evils
>> of the Holocaust and current issues at Guantanamo Bay.
>> To make such assumptions is missing the whole point.
>
> Difficult to think such assumptions are false when one is also bombarded
> with comparisons of "Gitmo" to both the Holocaust and the Gulag.
>
I rather imagine that if the detainees at Abu Graib or Guantanamo Bay were
given the option to remain there under current conditions or transfer to
venues identical to either the Gulag Achipelago or any of the Nazi death
camps - I feel certain 100% of them would elect to stay at Gitmo or Graib
rather than the other two options. Just a hunch, I could be wrong. KM
OBQ:
"All that we do is done with an eye to something else."
~ Aristotle
Véritable Rosbif
> "Véritable Rosbif" <gpvacheq...@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:d8mfpn$on2$1...@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> He probably assumes that I must be female [but I'm not] because I argue
>> my
>> case calmly, politely, intelligently, logically, effectively,
>> devastatingly
>> and without bluster, pomposity....
>>
> He pompously blusters. ;-) KM
;-) indeed!
> OBQ:
> "The vanity of teaching doth oft tempt a man to forget that he is a
> blockhead."
> ~ George Savile, Marquess de Halifax
ObQ
No man but a blockhead wrote except for money
Samuel Johnson
So what does that make all of us?
Véritable Rosbif
"Violette Harte" <AMo...@XCAPSoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:42af6126$0$16705$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Véritable Rosbif wrote:
>
>> He probably assumes that I must be female [but I'm not] because I argue
>> my case calmly, politely, intelligently, logically, effectively,
>> devastatingly and without bluster, pomposity or childish invective.
> __________________________
>
> You are obviously also EXTREMELY perceptive and sensitive. Are you
> single, Véritable Rosbif ?
>
> <sigh>
<blush>
I am a Véridouble Rosbif.
ObQ
When the coin is tossed either Love or Lust will fall uppermost. But if the
metal is right, under the one will always be the other.
Gerald Brenan
Véritable Rosbif
> "Véritable Rosbif" <gpvacheq...@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:d8maae$t4q$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> "alohacyberian" <alohac...@att.net> wrote in message
>> news:jJvre.953159$w62.7...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> I was making a considered point about the danger of a warped morality
>> arising from proximity to extreme political power, a degree of power
>> which
>> is undoubtedly possessed by every US president - and responsibly
>> exercised
>> by most of them.
>>
> LOL! Yes, you belabor that point when the man in office is someone you
> don't
> like and who is someone who hasn't gained your approval. ;-) And in your
> indignant discourse you toss around names like "Hitler" and then claim no
> hyperbole! Amazing. KM
Come now. Quite the reverse. The thread started with Colson's
self-righteous clap-trap about Mark Felt 'betrayal'. I equated the
attitudes of 'insiders' with my then current re-read of a superb book about
the 'insiders' of the Third Reich. My point was simply the hypnosis -
intoxication, if you prefer - of being close to power. Nixon's boys were
caught in a burglary and a subsequent barrage of lies. They went down. He
went out. Remember his absurd bleat to David Frost: "If the President does
it, it's not illegal". I find it admirable that so many of the US
presidents [of both parties. Who am I to be partisan?] have acted with
dignity and restaint, given the overwhelming power at their disposal and the
graceless, although impotent, battering they so frequently receive.
ObQ
Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a
pleasure.
Ambrose Bierce
David C Kifer
> "David C Kifer" <dkif...@MOVEearthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:d8n2f...@news3.newsguy.com...
>
>> PollyC dipped mouse in ink and wrote:
>>
>>>alohacyberian wrote:
>>>
>>>>The "head" of the United States isn't a totalitarian dictator and in many
>>>>ways Congress wields far more power as mentioned in the Constitution..
>>>>Comparing Nixon to Hitler only demonstrates your ignorance of either
>>>>Hitler or Nixon - if not both. KM
>>>
>>>The two Keiths make the same error. They equate any commentary on the
>>>similarity in political climate pre-Nazi Germany and current US
>>>Administrative decisions with making comparative judgements on the evils
>>>of the Holocaust and current issues at Guantanamo Bay.
>>>To make such assumptions is missing the whole point.
>>
>>Difficult to think such assumptions are false when one is also bombarded
>>with comparisons of "Gitmo" to both the Holocaust and the Gulag.
>>
>
>
> I rather imagine that if the detainees at Abu Graib or Guantanamo Bay were
> given the option to remain there under current conditions or transfer to
> venues identical to either the Gulag Achipelago or any of the Nazi death
> camps - I feel certain 100% of them would elect to stay at Gitmo or Graib
> rather than the other two options. Just a hunch, I could be wrong. KM
...according to Amnesty International, Gitmo is the "gulag of our time."
Well then, these are diminished times for gulags. According to the
Encyclopaedia Britannica, some 15 million to 30 million prisoners Russians died
in the Soviet gulags. By comparison, Guantanamo at its peak held 750 prisoners;
now there are 520. None have died in captivity, and, as I wrote 3? years ago, it
has the distinction of being "a camp where the medical staff outnumber the
prisoners." You'll get swifter, cleaner and more efficient treatment than most
Canadians get under socialized health care. Indeed, it's the only gulag in
history where the detainees leave in better health and weighing more than when
they arrive. They're in much better shape when they get back to their hectic
schedule of killing infidels: Of the more than 200 who've been released, around
5 percent -- that's to say, 12 -- have since been recaptured on the battlefield.
Why would a human-rights organization want to trivialize the murder of
millions in totalitarian death camps by comparing them with a nondeath camp that
flatters every aspect of the inmates' culture? If Gitmo's a gulag, what words
are left for the systemic rape practiced by the butchers of Darfur? Or is it
because they've so exhausted the extremes of their vocabulary on Guantanamo that
the world's progressives have so little to say about real horrors like Sudan?
-- Mark Steyn, Selective angst
http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20050612-100447-9533r.htm
David C Kifer
> "alohacyberian" <alohac...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:8VPre.960833$w62.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>>OBQ:
>>"The vanity of teaching doth oft tempt a man to forget that he is a
>>blockhead."
>>~ George Savile, Marquess de Halifax
>
>
> ObQ
> No man but a blockhead wrote except for money
> Samuel Johnson
> So what does that make all of us?
Compared to Samuel Johnson? Probably splinters... :-)>
Virtue would not go far if vanity did not keep it company.
--François de La Rochefoucauld
David C Kifer
> The two Keiths make the same error. They equate any commentary on the
> similarity in political climate pre-Nazi Germany and current US
> Administrative decisions with making comparative judgements on the evils
> of the Holocaust and current issues at Guantanamo Bay.
> To make such assumptions is missing the whole point.
January 13, 1945
MINNEAPOLIS (Routers) The Roosevelt administration reeled today from new
revelations of atrocities at POW camps in America's heartland, where German and
Italian prisoners have been worked to exhaustion, and many have died. Amid
rising calls to shut the camps down, the international community has expressed
shock at news of the harsh treatment of the Axis prisoners, eliminating any
pretense at moral underpinnings for our war efforts in the Pacific and western
Europe.
For many, the lachrymose ordeal begins when the prisoners first arrive, as they
are housed in an onion-drying shed on the Odegard Farm in Isanti County. Many
deaths have been reported, as some of the new arrivals are killed by the veteran
prisoners, perhaps while camp guards simply look the other way.
But if they survive the first few days, new horrors are in store for them. There
have been reports that prisoners were forced to toil in the fields for
eleven-hour days, from seven in the early morning, until the late evening at 6
PM. For this, they get only three dollars a day, with no overtime pay. Thus, the
local farmers are benefiting in this cruel war from what many say is tantamount
to slave labor. Harvesting potatoes and onions in the fields of despair, they
come back to their harsh camps each evening, in tears from the onion fumes (a
chemical weapon precursor), dirt and "tater" skins under their fingernails,
their lives an unending slog of spud-infested misery.
--Rand Simberg, World Outraged At Brutal Minnesota Death Camps
http://www.transterrestrial.com/archives/005373.html#005373
David C Kifer
> Gitmo quote, graphic edition:
> http://daybydaycartoon.com/
> [June 14 strip]
The quote is extended, June 15 strip, same URL.
The Fantasy Contessa
>>You are obviously also EXTREMELY perceptive and sensitive. Are you
>>single, Véritable Rosbif ?
>><sigh>
> <blush>
> I am a Véridouble Rosbif.
___________________
Poor Violette, c'est la vie!
But *I* have less scruples than our luckless spinster, of course! ;-)
OBQ
Les chaînes du mariage sont si lourdes qu'il faut être deux pour les
porter; quelquefois trois.
~Alexandre Dumas 1802-70
--
The Fantasy Contessa
_________________
PollyC
> Difficult to think such assumptions are false when one is also bombarded with
> comparisons of "Gitmo" to both the Holocaust and the Gulag.
__________________________
Mr Kifer, two years ago you posted thus-
Both quotes used in "Auschwitz in America", By William J. Federer
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35138
"It took no more than three decades to transform a war crime into an act
of compassion, thereby enabling the victors in the war against Nazism
to adopt the very practices for which the Nazis had been solemnly
condemned at Nuremberg."
--Malcolm Muggeridge, "The Humane Holocaust"
quoted ibid
~David C Kifer, AQ thread, Gen Boykin: Onward Christian Soldiers on Oct
18, 2003
And Mr Weeks followed this up with -
Will America chose the "sanctity of life" concept as
demonstrated by Mother Teresa, or will America chose
the "quality of life" concept championed by
self-proclaimed doctors of death ? such as in the case of the
court-ordered starvation of Terri Schiavo ? and continue its slide
toward Auschwitz?
~ William Federer quoted by Graham Weeks AQ (Oct 19, 2005)
From that same article which you quoted we have -
...the origins of the Holocaust lay, not in Nazi terrorism and
anti-Semitism, but in pre-Nazi Weimar Germany's acceptance of euthanasia
and mercy-killing as humane and estimable. ...
~Malcolm Muggeridge, as above
The argument appears to be that as illustrated by cases like that of
Terry Schiavo, current trends in US were mimicking those in pre-Nazi
Germany, to its detriment.
So, can one conclude that it is OK to draw comparisons with US and
Nazi Germany when it suits your argument?
--
PollyC
_______________________
John Bonanno
"David C Kifer" >>squawked:
This is the United States of America we are discussing here and it is a sad
state of affairs when Conservatives only remaining argument to defend their
fearless leaders' crimes consists of the plaintive whine that our illegal
prison camps aren't as bad as the Nazis or the Reds. How pathetic!
"The US government is operating an "archipelago" of prisons around the
world, many of them secret camps into which people are being "literally
disappeared," a top Amnesty International official said. Amnesty
International executive director William Schulz criticized the
administration of US President George W. Bush for holding alleged
battlefield combatants in "indefinite incommunicado detention" without
access to lawyers in an interview with Fox News Sunday.
Schulz was pressed to substantiate Amnesty's claim in a May 25 report that
the US prison camp at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba naval base -- where hundreds
of foreign terror suspects are being held indefinitely -- represents the
"gulag of our times."
The gulag claim, referring to the notorious prison camp system of the Soviet
Union, has drawn withering criticism from the US president, who called it
"absurd." Vice President Richard Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald
Rumsfeld have also slammed the rights group's claim.
Russian 1970 Nobel Prize winner Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn described the Soviet
prison camp system in his best-selling book "The Gulag Archipelago."
Schulz said the gulag reference was not "an exact or a literal analogy."
"But there are some similarities. The United States is maintaining an
archipelago of prisons around the world, many of them secret prisons into
which people are being literally disappeared -- held in indefinite
incommunicado detention without access to lawyers," Schulz told Fox.
Asked how AI could compare the detentions of millions of Soviet citizens in
the gulag system to purported anti-US combatants captured on the
battlefield, Schulz said some of those held in Guantanamo "happened to be in
the wrong place at the wrong time.
"We do know that at least some of the 200 some prisoners who have been
released from Guantanamo Bay have made pretty persuasive cases that they
were imprisoned there, not because they were involved in military conflict
but simply because they were enemies of the Northern Alliance," he said."
Agence France-Presse, Monday, June 6, 2005
You know, the Nazis have their defenders too.
But the Bush administration wants it both ways. They refused to classify
the prisoners at Guantanamo and other locations as prisoners of war, yet
they will not afford them the rights accorded accused criminals under the
Constitution. This is itself criminal.
David C Kifer
Of course! That's always the way it works! Pick a subject, pick a technique,
each side uses it, and complains about the other side doing it.
...for in the order of things wee find it always, that whensoever a man seeks to
avoid one inconvenient; he incurres another.
--Machiavelli, _The Prince_, xxi, 1513 [translated by Edward Dacres, 1640]
PollyC
>> So, can one conclude that it is OK to draw comparisons with US and
>>Nazi Germany when it suits your argument?
> Of course! That's always the way it works! Pick a subject, pick a technique,
> each side uses it, and complains about the other side doing it.
________________________
Just so we have got that clear...and realise that neither side can get
outraged, or claim any moral superiority on *any* issue! <s>
OBQ
The plain fact is that I am not a fair man and don't want to hear both
sides.
~ H.L. Mencken 1880-1956
--
PollyC
__________________
David C Kifer
> David C Kifer wrote:
>
>>> So, can one conclude that it is OK to draw comparisons with US and
>>> Nazi Germany when it suits your argument?
>
>
>> Of course! That's always the way it works! Pick a subject, pick a
>> technique, each side uses it, and complains about the other side doing
>> it.
>
> ________________________
>
> Just so we have got that clear...and realise that neither side can get
> outraged, or claim any moral superiority on *any* issue! <s>
Actually, we can both get outraged, and both claim moral superiority. That's the
way it works, especially in this era of moral relativity and moral equivalence.
To denounce moralizing out of hand is to pronounce a moral judgment.
--H. L. Mencken
alohacyberian
> "alohacyberian" <alohac...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:9VPre.960834$w62.9...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> "Véritable Rosbif" <gpvacheq...@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
>> news:d8maae$t4q$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>>> "alohacyberian" <alohac...@att.net> wrote in message
>>> news:jJvre.953159$w62.7...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>> I was making a considered point about the danger of a warped morality
>>> arising from proximity to extreme political power, a degree of power
>>> which
>>> is undoubtedly possessed by every US president - and responsibly
>>> exercised
>>> by most of them.
>>>
>> LOL! Yes, you belabor that point when the man in office is someone you
>> don't
>> like and who is someone who hasn't gained your approval. ;-) And in your
>> indignant discourse you toss around names like "Hitler" and then claim no
>> hyperbole! Amazing. KM
>
> Come now. Quite the reverse. The thread started with Colson's
> self-righteous clap-trap about Mark Felt 'betrayal'. I equated the
> attitudes of 'insiders' with my then current re-read of a superb book about
> the 'insiders' of the Third Reich.
thread once the first person in the repartee invokes comparisons, inferences
or connotations reagarding Hitler, Nazism or the Third Reich? ;-) "Sherman's
Law" or some such thing or am I confused with lemmings marching to the sea?
KM
OBQ:
"As for style of writing, if one has anything to say, it drops from him
simply and directly, as a stone falls to the ground."
~ David Henry Thoreau
alohacyberian
> alohacyberian dipped mouse in ink and wrote:
>> "David C Kifer" <dkif...@MOVEearthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:d8n2f...@news3.newsguy.com...
>
"For more than five months now, a continuous stream of preposterous criticism
of the Americans has had at its core the assumption that such a demotic
culture must necessarily be a profoundly stupid one. Yet funnily enough,
it's the sophisticates who keep getting everything wrong: the Arab street
will rise up! Musharraf will be overthrown! The Taleban will never surrender!
Millions will starve! Thousands of Afghan civilians are dead!
[...]
"There's evidently a powerful psychological need among the non-American
Western elites to believe that, if America is big, it must also be
blundering; if it's powerful, it must also be clumsy; if it's technologically
superior, it must also be morally inferior. Hence the frenzied rush to accuse
America of 'torture'; in Guantanamo, a camp where the medical staff outnumber
the prisoners. Atrocious, eh?
~ Mark Steyn, "On the right side of history"
~
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2002-02-23&id=1607
David C Kifer
> "For more than five months now, a continuous stream of preposterous criticism
> of the Americans has had at its core the assumption that such a demotic
> culture must necessarily be a profoundly stupid one. Yet funnily enough,
> it's the sophisticates who keep getting everything wrong: the Arab street
> will rise up! Musharraf will be overthrown! The Taleban will never surrender!
> Millions will starve! Thousands of Afghan civilians are dead!
> [...]
> "There's evidently a powerful psychological need among the non-American
> Western elites to believe that, if America is big, it must also be
> blundering; if it's powerful, it must also be clumsy; if it's technologically
> superior, it must also be morally inferior. Hence the frenzied rush to accuse
> America of 'torture'; in Guantanamo, a camp where the medical staff outnumber
> the prisoners. Atrocious, eh?
> ~ Mark Steyn, "On the right side of history"
> ~
> http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2002-02-23&id=1607
********************************
Mr. Hector Gutierrez
Gutierrez Bros. Landscaping
Arlington, VA
Dear Mr. Gutierrez:
Nothing could have prepared me for the shock that awaited as I exited the front
door of my home early Wednesday morning, where I discovered that your lawn crew
had cut a swath of environmental destruction across my yard so horrifying that
it only can be compared to the Rape of Nanking. I can scarcely bring myself to
describe the killing fields that are my North azalea beds and the brutal
degradation and torture suffered by the bluegrass around the locust tree by the
rear patio. I am writing to inform you that I have contacted the US Department
of Interior to conduct a full independent investigation into Gutierrez Brothers'
actions in this matter. Please be advised that you may be subpoenaed for records
pertaining to mower height, pruning shear maintenance, and leaf blower
emissions. I would also advise your crewmen to heed the lessons of the Judgement
At Nurenburg: although they may be spared the justice due their superiors, "I
was only following orders" is not an excuse.
Sincerely,
Senator Richard J. Durbin
Washington, DC
********************************
--David Burge, "From the Desk of Senator Dick, An ongoing series featuring the
correspondence of Senator Richard Durbin (D-IL), America's most dynamic
metaphorist", Iowahawk
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2005/06/from_the_desk_o.html
Véritable Rosbif
Fair do's, but to be fair to us both this actually *started* with a
discussion thereof, rather than deteriorating thereto!
It's Rule 306a or 306b, IIRC. Uk threads degrate to Hitler; US threads
degrade to the gun laws - or summink.
alohacyberian
> alohacyberian dipped mouse in ink and wrote:
>> "For more than five months now, a continuous stream of preposterous
>> criticism of the Americans has had at its core the assumption that such a
>> demotic culture must necessarily be a profoundly stupid one. Yet funnily
>> enough, it's the sophisticates who keep getting everything wrong: the Arab
>> street will rise up! Musharraf will be overthrown! The Taleban will never
>> surrender! Millions will starve! Thousands of Afghan civilians are dead!
>> [...]
>> "There's evidently a powerful psychological need among the non-American
>> Western elites to believe that, if America is big, it must also be
>> blundering; if it's powerful, it must also be clumsy; if it's
>> technologically superior, it must also be morally inferior. Hence the
>> frenzied rush to accuse America of 'torture'; in Guantanamo, a camp where
>> the medical staff outnumber the prisoners. Atrocious, eh?
>> ~ Mark Steyn, "On the right side of history"
>> ~
>> http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2002-02-23&id=1607
>
> Gutierrez Bros. Landscaping
> Arlington, VA
>
> Dear Mr. Gutierrez:
>
> Nothing could have prepared me for the shock that awaited as I exited the
> front door of my home early Wednesday morning, where I discovered that your
> lawn crew had cut a swath of environmental destruction across my yard so
> horrifying that it only can be compared to the Rape of Nanking. I can
> scarcely bring myself to describe the killing fields that are my North
> azalea beds and the brutal degradation and torture suffered by the
> bluegrass around the locust tree by the rear patio. I am writing to inform
> you that I have contacted the US Department of Interior to conduct a full
> independent investigation into Gutierrez Brothers' actions in this matter.
> Please be advised that you may be subpoenaed for records pertaining to
> mower height, pruning shear maintenance, and leaf blower emissions. I would
> also advise your crewmen to heed the lessons of the Judgement At Nurenburg:
> although they may be spared the justice due their superiors, "I was only
> following orders" is not an excuse.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Senator Richard J. Durbin
> Washington, DC
>
> metaphorist", Iowahawk
> http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2005/06/from_the_desk_o.html
>
Hilarious! KM
OBQ:
"The wise person questions himself, the fool, others."
~ Henri Arnold
pyotr filipivich
back on Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:31:04 -0400 in alt.quotations :
The misuses of the language, both in calling the Gunatanimo detention
camp part of "GULAG", and in the "Bush=Hitler" comparisons, and the
equating of abuse of prisoners with torture, leaves the liberals crying
"wolf", and reduces any claim to credibility. Were the US military to
decide to actually torture prisoners, what are the libs in the main stream
media going to say? What is going to be the headline "Abu Garab wasn't
Torture, this is Torture"?
"Like a madman who hurls firebrands, arrows and death,
So is the man who deceives his neighbor and says
"Am I not in sport?" Proverbs 26:19 KJV
tschus
pyotr
{"GULAG" was an acronym. The original title of Solsyniten's work was
"Archipelag Gulag" - the nearest English would fit the sense of the Russian
would be "Archipelago Gulagego" - which sounds "funny" in English. I'm
just being pedantic again.)
--
pyotr filipivich
TV NEWS: Yesterday's newspaper read to the illiterate.
alohacyberian
news:o9ubb1tlmgk0id6rd...@4ax.com...
>
> The misuses of the language, both in calling the Gunatanimo detention
> camp part of "GULAG", and in the "Bush=Hitler" comparisons, and the
> equating of abuse of prisoners with torture, leaves the liberals crying
> "wolf", and reduces any claim to credibility. Were the US military to
> decide to actually torture prisoners, what are the libs in the main stream
> media going to say? What is going to be the headline "Abu Garab wasn't
> Torture, this is Torture"?
>
> "Like a madman who hurls firebrands, arrows and death,
> So is the man who deceives his neighbor and says
> "Am I not in sport?" Proverbs 26:19 KJV
> tschus
> pyotr
>
> {"GULAG" was an acronym. The original title of Solsyniten's work was
> "Archipelag Gulag" - the nearest English would fit the sense of the Russian
> would be "Archipelago Gulagego" - which sounds "funny" in English. I'm
> just being pedantic again.)
>
Pedantry can be quite interesting, so is quite excusable. The hyperbole of
the elite Leftwing Liberals soon becomes meaningless since they use the exact
same terminology to describe their imagined horror at Abu Graib and
Guantanamo as they use to shriek about a wine stain on the carpet. Yet, they
blithely dismiss with a flick of a limp wrist the thousands slaughered by
some of the inmates at Abu Graib and Guantanamo and seem insouciantly
unconcerned about the millions who were daily raped, tortured maimed and
slaughtered by Saddam Hussein, now a hapless victim of American agression.
Their handwringing concern over the "plight" of Saddam Hussein and the
prisoners at Al Graib and Guantanamo coupled with their nonchalance about the
fates of people who were and are terrorist targets and the true victims of
Hussein's and the Taliban's bloodbaths is stupefying. KM
OBQ:
"In every work of genius, we recognize our own rejected thoughts; they come
back to us with a certain alientated majesty."
~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
David C Kifer
1. To make, either explicitly or implicitly, a moral, political, or factual
equivalence between two situations which in reality have little or nothing in
common. (After U. S. Senator Richard Durbin (D, ILL) who compared the alleged
abusive treatment of a terrorist detainee held at Guantanamo Bay with the
depraved horrors of the Nazis, Soviet gulags, and Pol Pot’s mass murders,
thereby equating the U. S. personnel with these murderous despots.)
2. To apparently apologize without actually doing so by subtly placing the blame
for legitimate objections to the actions of definition 1 on the objectors. This
may be accomplished by expressing disappointment that the objectors have
“misunderstood” the speaker’s remarks or by stating the speaker’s sorrow that
feelings were hurt. In reality, the speaker is implying that the objectors are
too stupid to understand plain English or are insufficiently educated or mature
to accept the speaker’s remarks as truth.
--William Yates, To Durbinize
http://billyates.blogspot.com/2005/06/to-durbinize.html
David C Kifer
decapitation during a raid on a guerrilla hideout in the Iraqi village of
Karabla, near the town of Qaim, close to the Syrian border. The Arab newspaper
Al-Sharq al-Awsat reports that in the hideaway the troops also found several
hostages who were being held there by Islamic militants. The hiding place was
being used as a centre for the interrogation and torture of hostages, and
contained electrodes and other instruments of torture.
The manuals found were used as Jihad (Holy War) handbooks. The first was titled:
"How to choose the best hostage", the second covered decapitation and was
called: "Rules for cutting off the heads of infidels", and the third manual,
"principles of the philosophy of the Jihad", was more theoretical.
--Ham/Aki, IRAQ: KIDNAP AND DECAPITATION MANUAL FOUND IN HIDEOUT
http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.180134978&par=0
We have manuals on how to properly handle the Koran and humanely treat
prisoners, paying respect to their cultural sensitivities, they have manuals on
how to properly torture and decapitate hostages. ... Who are the barbarians Sen
Durbin?
--traderrob, KIDNAP AND DECAPITATION MANUAL FOUND IN HIDEOUT, OpiniPundit
http://exposingtheleft.blogspot.com/2005/06/kidnap-and-decapitation-manual-found.html
Amazing Grace
OBQ
Make America Safe, Not Divided
Excerpts of remarks by Senator John Kerry on the Senate floor on
Thursday, June 23.
"None of us here will ever forget the hours after September 11... and
the remarkable response of the American people as we came together as
one to answer the attack on our homeland.... [I]t brought out the best
of all of us in America.
That spirit of our country should never be reduced to a cheap, divisive
political applause line from anyone who speaks for the President of the
United States.
I am proud, as my colleagues on this side are, that after September 11,
all of the people of this country rallied to President Bush's call for
unity to meet the danger. There were no Democrats, there were no
Republicans, there were only Americans. That is why it is really hard to
believe that last night in New York... the most senior adviser to the
President of the United States [was] purposely twisting those days of
unity in order to divide us for political gain.
Rather than focusing attention on Osama bin Laden and finding him or
rather than focusing attention on just smashing al-Qaida and uniting our
effort, as we have been, he is, instead, challenging the patriotism of
every American who is every bit as committed to fighting terror as is he.
Just days after 9/11, the Senate voted 98 to nothing, and the House
voted 420 to 1, to authorize President Bush to use all necessary and
appropriate force against terror. And after the bipartisan vote,
President Bush said: "I'm gratified that the Congress has united so
powerfully by taking this action. It sends a clear message. Our people
are together and we will prevail."
That is not the message that was sent by Karl Rove in New York City last
night. Last night, he said: "No more needs to be said about" their
"motives."
I think a lot more needs to be said about Karl Rove's motives because
they are not the people's motives... They are not the motives of a
nation that found unity in that critical moment--Democrat and Republican
alike, all of us as Americans.
If the President really believes his own words, if those words have
meaning, he should at the very least expect a public apology from Karl
Rove. And frankly, he ought to fire him. If the President of the United
States knows the meaning of those words, then he ought to listen to the
plea of Kristen Breitweiser, who lost her husband when the Twin Towers
came crashing down. She said: "If you are going to use 9/11, use it to
make this nation safer than it was on 9/11."
Karl Rove doesn't owe me an apology and he doesn't owe Democrats an
apology. He owes the country an apology. He owes Kristen Breitweiser and
a lot of people like her, those families, an apology. He owes an apology
to every one of those families who paid the ultimate price on 9/11 and
expect their government to be doing all possible to keep the unity of
their country and to fight an effective war on terror.
The fact is, millions of Americans...are asking Washington for honesty,
for results, and for leadership--not for political division. Before Karl
Rove delivers another political assault, he ought to stop and think
about those families and the unity of 9/11.
--
Amazing Grace's Eclectic Quotation Collection
*125,000 quotations, proverbs, by people of all philosophies, ages and
cultures. CD-ROM For more info. or free sample of one category, send a
personal e-mail: gem...@shoescomcast.net (remove shoes)
. . . Grace McGarvie . . .
. . Plymouth,Mn. 55447 U.S.A.
Amazing Grace
David C Kifer wrote:
snip
Who are the barbarians Sen Durbin?
snip
DONALD RUMSFELD, GEORGE BUSH, KARL ROVE
OBQ
Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting
to me, because as we know, there are known knowns, there are things we
know we know, We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we
know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown
unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know. Donald Rumsfeld
John Bonanno
"David C Kifer" wrote
> Durbinize, verb.
> 1. To make, either explicitly or implicitly, a moral, political, or
> factual equivalence between two situations which in reality have little or
> nothing in common. (After U. S. Senator Richard Durbin (D, ILL) who
> compared the alleged abusive treatment of a terrorist detainee held at
> Guantanamo Bay with the depraved horrors of the Nazis, Soviet gulags, and
> Pol Pot’s mass murders, thereby equating the U. S. personnel with these
> murderous despots.)
> 2. To apparently apologize without actually doing so by subtly placing the
> blame for legitimate objections to the actions of definition 1 on the
> objectors. This may be accomplished by expressing disappointment that the
> objectors have “misunderstood” the speaker’s remarks or by stating the
> speaker’s sorrow that feelings were hurt. In reality, the speaker is
> implying that the objectors are too stupid to understand plain English or
> are insufficiently educated or mature to accept the speaker’s remarks as
> truth.
> --William Yates, To Durbinize
This is a vile dripping mess of Santorum.
Durbin was right. His only error was to apologize for nothing.
"No man on earth who conscientiously opposes either you or any other
organized democracy, and flatly prevents a great many wrongs and
illegalities from taking place in the state to which he belongs, can
possibly escape with his life." Plato, The Apology
SteveMR200
<42aeb54f$0$23960$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>:
>Of course countless differences may be listed between Hitler and
>President Bush, most of which are to the credit of Bush. Nevertheless,
>the resemblances listed here are striking, especially since Bush?s first
>term in office must be compared with Hitler?s performance as German
>Chancellor through the year 1937, preceding the chain of events
>immediately preceding World War II. In any case, George W. Bush seems
>the worst and most dangerous U.S. president in recent memory (for me
>since Roosevelt)--if not in the entire history of the United States.
>~Edward Jayne, 31 Similarities Between Hitler and President Bush
>(August 29, 2004)
>
>http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles3/Jayne_Hitler-Bush.htm
>
>btw Hitler was democratically elected as Chancellor of Germany,
>wasn't he? <s>
George Bush isn't Hitler. In the 2004 election,
MoveOn.org compared Bush to Hitler, ignoring the
first rule for being taken seriously by grown-ups,
which is: Don't call everyone you don't like "Hitler."
Bush is not Hitler. For one thing, Hitler was a
decorated, frontline combat veteran. Also, in the
election that brought him to power in 1933, Hitler
got more votes than the other candidates.
And Hitler had a mustache. So let's all take a rest
from playing the Hitler card. Unless we're talking
about Saddam Hussein. Now, that guy was Hitler.
--Bill Maher (1956- )
_New Rules_ [2005], "Three Reichs And You're Out"
--
Steve
BlackWidow
> Bush is not Hitler. For one thing, Hitler was a
> decorated, frontline combat veteran. Also, in the
> election that brought him to power in 1933, Hitler
> got more votes than the other candidates.
>
> And Hitler had a mustache. So let's all take a rest
> from playing the Hitler card. Unless we're talking
> about Saddam Hussein. Now, that guy was Hitler.
> --Bill Maher (1956- )
> _New Rules_ [2005], "Three Reichs And You're Out"
________________________________
She had much in common with Hitler, only no moustache
~ Noel Coward 1899 - 1973,(of Mary Baker Eddy)
--
BlackWidow
____________________