KUNG FU RECORDS=MOST LIKELY A MAJOR LABEL SUBSIDIARY. DUH.
tang
For those of you who haven't recognized this yet, allow me to shed some
light on the issue of KUNG FU RECORDS and their major label affiliations.
KUNG FU is the new label started by those old has-beens, the vandals, to
make alot of cash now that punk and ska are so huge. co-owner joe
escalante(of the VANDALS) quit his job as a lawyer for CBS to work on KUNG
FU full-time. That SHOULD give you an idea of how big this "new little
punk label started by the VANDALS" really is. You know, that there is
something more than meets the eye. I mean, shit, if YOU were a
lawyer for CBS, would you quit your job to start a punk label? Obviously,
KUNG FU is guaranteed to make a TON of money due to their "punk"
credability (since the VANDALS are so old school and all) coupled with
cloaked major label "help" with distro, financing,accounting, and
general support (ie,with major label mailing lists, database info, etc.)
Its a well known fact that JOE ESCALANTE and other members of the VANDALS
schmooze daily with major label owners, managers, lawyers, etc. Fuck,
even NITRO RECORDS is owned by the dude from the OFFSPRING (who by the
way, have now ditched indie epitaph for COLUMBIA RECORDS). In fact, one
particular major label owner+manager, Jim Guirnot, is a very good "friend"
of JOE and the VANDALS (This dude is a afirly notorious enemy of the
independent punk
scene as even big shots like Epitaph have problems with his harrasing
tactics as a manager). Oh yeah, he also happens to be the manager for
OFFSPRING and RANCID and he owns TIMEBOMB RECORDS, which is exclusively
manufactured and distributed by BMG. Its no coincidence that this "good
friend" was given the rights to reissue two old VANDALS records
recently and put them out on his BMG funded and distributed label. This
all relates to KUNG FU in that any dumb fuck can obviously draw the lines
of affiliation between KUNG FU and Jim Guirnot/TIMEBOMB.
Put it this way, if YOU were JOE ESCALANTE and YOU had a "friend" like JIM
GUIRNOT and had no problems with major labels (as JOE doesn't judging from
the release of VANDALS albums on a major), would you try to solicit "help"
from him? Of coarse. AND, this is all proven by simply looking at the
KUNG FU track record thus far. fuck, the SECOND full-legnth release on
their label is fucking MOvie Soundtrack for an Alissa Milano movie. Don't
try to tell me that an indie punk label cold pull that off. Furthermore,
I know of countless fanzines, magazines and radio stations who has been
recieving promos from KUNG FU all across the world. Do you think an
"indie" label would access to all of this database info with only their
1st and going on their 2nd release?? Of coarse not. The Fact is that
while BMG/TIMEBOMB may or may not be manufacturing their albums (which
probably is the case considering that the first KUNG FU ads used to say
"exclusively manufatcured and distributed by Timebomb" and then they
mysteriously dissapeared), they are certainly supplying KUNG FU with
DATABASE info, DISTRIBUTION hook-ups, and connections with big time
Hollywood movie industry type schmucks. After all, isn't that what
"friends" are for??
Anyway, all i am saying is to examine the facts then consider believing
the bull-shit VANDALS story that KUNG FU is 100% indie and punk. They
simply aren't. The only reason the VANDALS are now CLAIMING that KUNG FU
is independent is because of a large backlash and negative reaction that
occured due to their initial placement of "manufactured and distributed by
timebomb" in their early ads and releases.
Heck, maybe I'm wrong about all of this (i doubt it though). But don't
you think that the VANDALS and KUNG FU at least owe us an
explanation??????? Don't buy the lie, kids. Look at the fact and
determine the truth.
Best of Luck,
Your punk friend-Dave Liberation
P.S. for more info on the shadey business dealings of labels like NITRO
and KUNG FU, see BIG BANG zine #1 out OCT 31st. Its for free and you
should be able to find it through punk mailorders or through your local
punk store. Its a new DIY punk zine with national distro (through mom&
pop stores) which is dedicated to exposing the frauds and the fuckers and
its all for free. CYA LATER, DOODS. :)
eRiK G
Hey People,
This is my first post to any news group, I had to get on when I was
forwarded this message written in from Dave Liberation. This guy really
does not know what he is talking about, all he has is half-truths, if even
that!
>For those of you who haven't recognized this yet, allow me to shed some
>light on the issue of KUNG FU RECORDS and their major label affiliations.
>KUNG FU is the new label started by those old has-beens, the vandals, to
>make alot of cash now that punk and ska are so huge.
Has-beens??? Recently the Vandals played live on KUCI, and sure enough who
shows up to check them out, Dave Liberation. And now he's calling them
has-beens. That doesn't make sense.
>co-owner joe
>escalante(of the VANDALS) quit his job as a lawyer for CBS to work on KUNG
>FU full-time. That SHOULD give you an idea of how big this "new little
>punk label started by the VANDALS" really is. You know, that there is
>something more than meets the eye. I mean, shit, if YOU were a
>lawyer for CBS, would you quit your job to start a punk label? Obviously,
>KUNG FU is guaranteed to make a TON of money due to their "punk"
>credability
That's right, Joe was a lawyer for CBS, for over 4 years he was. Joe got
himself into a position in life where he no longer needed to be a lawyer
for CBS, he wanted to start Kung Fu because that's what he would rather do
in life. Dave makes this seem like a crime. Also, Joe isn't under
contract with CBS no more and can now take other jobs. Joe takes care of
Swiggin' Utters contracts for them and also was the lawyer for the chick
from the Lunachick's for her Kalvin Clien ads. He has other bands too that
he helps out, like the Drapes from Portland. Dave also doesn't mention
that the other Co-Owner is Warren Fitzgerlad of the Vandals.
>coupled with
>cloaked major label "help" with distro, financing,accounting, and
>general support (ie,with major label mailing lists, database info, etc.)
This is so not true! More on this later in this message...
>Its a well known fact that JOE ESCALANTE and other members of the VANDALS
>schmooze daily with major label owners, managers, lawyers, etc. Fuck,
>even NITRO RECORDS is owned by the dude from the OFFSPRING (who by the
>way, have now ditched indie epitaph for COLUMBIA RECORDS).
Damn, I wish Dave can make up his mind! Right there he bashed the
Offspring for leaving Epitaph... Well, Dave used to have this shitty zine,
in it he talked about his expirience interning at Epitaph, and how he
learned that they are just as bad and maybe even worse than the big
corporate labels!!! Why, for this posting does he change his views???
>In fact, one
>particular major label owner+manager, Jim Guirnot, is a very good "friend"
>of JOE and the VANDALS (This dude is a afirly notorious enemy of the
>independent punk
>scene as even big shots like Epitaph have problems with his harrasing
>tactics as a manager). Oh yeah, he also happens to be the manager for
>OFFSPRING and RANCID and he owns TIMEBOMB RECORDS, which is exclusively
>manufactured and distributed by BMG. Its no coincidence that this "good
>friend" was given the rights to reissue two old VANDALS records
>recently and put them out on his BMG funded and distributed label. This
>all relates to KUNG FU in that any dumb fuck can obviously draw the lines
>of affiliation between KUNG FU and Jim Guirnot/TIMEBOMB.
That's right, Joe used his connections to re-release (not release) the old,
out of print Vandals records. That was back in 1989. Joe still owns the
rights to the Vandals old music, not Time Bomb. TimeBomb also re-released
Social D albums. Most people that have the old Vandals albums have the
re-release CD, they should be thankful. Joe even thanks "Jim Guerinot and
everyone at Time Bomb" in their latest album. It's no secret. And just
because the old Vandals material was released on Time Bomb doesn't mean
that Joe's new label is. I know all this for a fact. I work at Kung Fu.
I've been there since May. And everyday from June until August I shipped
every single CD/CS/LP and 7" myself, out of a garage. The original
zine/radio/indie store lists were provided by Nitro Records.
>fuck, the SECOND full-legnth release on
>their label is fucking MOvie Soundtrack for an Alissa Milano movie. Don't
>try to tell me that an indie punk label cold pull that off.
This means nothing! To tell you the truth, we had the soundtrack deal
going before the Jelly Beans was even close to coming out! Joe worked at
CBS, he knows people in this buisness. Now some people might think this
means we are corporate or what not. Why don't you go see the movie? It is
an indiependent film. Right now I hear it's only on a couple of screnes
and that's only in New York and San Francisco! Dave says nothing about the
movie, he just states that Alissa Milano is in it. Which still doesn't
mean shit. What a joke.
>Furthermore,
>I know of countless fanzines, magazines and radio stations who has been
>recieving promos from KUNG FU all across the world. Do you think an
>"indie" label would access to all of this database info with only their
>1st and going on their 2nd release?? Of coarse not. The Fact is that
>while BMG/TIMEBOMB may or may not be manufacturing their albums (which
>probably is the case considering that the first KUNG FU ads used to say
>"exclusively manufatcured and distributed by Timebomb" and then they
>mysteriously dissapeared), they are certainly supplying KUNG FU with
>DATABASE info, DISTRIBUTION hook-ups, and connections with big time
>Hollywood movie industry type schmucks. After all, isn't that what
>"friends" are for??
More crap from Dave! Like I said, Nitro helped us out alot and gave us
thier info. And in August, two days before the Vandals left on tour again
after being back a week (I, myslef, a 17 year old, ran Kung Fu alone for a
month while the guys were on tour), Grace from Fearless Records started
working for Kung Fu and we finally moved into an "office". Grace handled
Fearless's radio/zines/and stores along with doing all thier ads and album
covers herself! So for "Glory Daze" (the movie/soundtrack) we had even a
larger list, and better looking ads. Thanks to her!
As for our actual Mailing List, I myself entered in every name that was in
a box that the Vandals have put every fan mail letter in since "Live Fast,
Diarrhea" was released.
>The only reason the VANDALS are now CLAIMING that KUNG FU
>is independent is because of a large backlash and negative reaction that
>occured due to their initial placement of "manufactured and distributed by
>timebomb" in their early ads and releases.
Well, like I said, I've only been at Kung Fu since May. And since then I
haven't seen the "manufactured and distributed by timebomb" in any ads. I
also know who manafactures our releases, I deal with them often. Look in a
"Glory Daze" ad, you can see for yourself who we are distributed through,
they are listed right there for you! Back to the beginning of Kung Fu...
Dave isn't lying about those old ads. I've seen them myself... I saw them
before I ever had anything to do with Kung Fu. Simply, in the beginning
Joe wasn't going to quit CBS. He wasn't going to run Kung Fu. But shortly
after things got started he realize he had the choice of leaving CBS. He
did so, and broke all ties between Time Bomb and Kung Fu. He is still
friends with Jim Guerinot, that never changed. I even brought Jim an
Assorted Jelly Beans poster and full length CD after it came out. The only
thing Time Bomb ever did was make the first fifteen hundred
Vandals/Assorted Jelly Beans Split 7"s, they NEVER distributed them, I
shipped the majority of those personally out of the garage. All of the new
7" were manafactured at a different place.
>Heck, maybe I'm wrong about all of this (i doubt it though). But don't
>you think that the VANDALS and KUNG FU at least owe us an
>explanation??????? Don't buy the lie, kids. Look at the fact and
>determine the truth.
Well, here is your explanation. I encourage an open forum about this
subject. But my personal address is digit...@vandals.com.
>Best of Luck,
>Your punk friend-Dave Liberation
Doesn't it seem like Dave is trying to bite at you with all this "punk"
talk? His writting style is VERY much like the one I am sure a lot of you
saw in that letter written by Joe Bruce ( a person that doesn't even exist!
But yet so many people just printer in letter over and over again with out
doing a thing to verifying it! Well, we tried... But all our mail got sent
back to us because the address he gave was bogus!), maybe this similar
writting style is just a freak thing, or maybe Dave at Liberation has a lot
of free time and a major grudge against Kung Fu. Why else would he stretch
that what is reality so far as to make it seem as if we are trying to con
you?
>P.S. for more info on the shadey business dealings of labels like NITRO
>and KUNG FU, see BIG BANG zine #1 out OCT 31st. Its for free and you
>should be able to find it through punk mailorders or through your local
>punk store. Its a new DIY punk zine with national distro (through mom&
>pop stores) which is dedicated to exposing the frauds and the fuckers and
>its all for free. CYA LATER, DOODS. :)
I hope to find a copy of this. I do wonder if it is going to have anything
on what I have heard from various people about the way Liberation Dave
handles things... Such as not paying bands their money!
Vandals
"eRiK G" <digit...@vandals.com> wrote:
>Hey People,
hey erik.
> This is my first post to any news group, I had to get on when I was
>forwarded this message written in from Dave Liberation. This guy really
>does not know what he is talking about, all he has is half-truths, if even
>that!
<snip>
that wouldn't have been my message would it? and when is the next
issue of the postpile coming out?
>More crap from Dave! Like I said, Nitro helped us out alot and gave us
>thier info. And in August, two days before the Vandals left on tour again
>after being back a week (I, myslef, a 17 year old, ran Kung Fu alone for a
>month while the guys were on tour),
<snip>
> eRiK G
> digit...@vandals.com
> www.vandals.com
and you do such a damn good job erik. i enjoyed this read, even though
i already knew most of what you said. i had no idea who dave was
before this shit but let's jsut say that he does not make a good first
impression when he talks about shit like that and doesn't know the
whole truth about the situation(s).
Krissy
pun...@vandals.com
heehee
:)
Loren
um, dave liberator...uh liberation, or whatever...please go and get some
help. kung fu records, and the vandals rock. digitalboy(erik) you're
rad, keep up the good work!
Loren
Ben Brucato
Loren, I hope so much that your apathy is in no way representative
of the average so called punk. The Vandals/Kung Fu are corporate assholes
sucking off of lathargic morons like you who refuse to recognize
that they are about as punk than Shell Patroleum.
eRiK G
Ben,
Where are you coming from? Are you one of Davey boy's friends? Are you a
mindless punk who believes Dave and Dave's alias "Joe Bruce" without ever
thinking for yourself? I am 17. I ran Kung Fu out of a 10x13 room that
was half a Kung Fu office and half a sports room; and half a garage was
used for inventory and shipping. I did everything. I handled all
shipping, place some ads that didn't get placed before the band went on
tour. I set up interviews. I took all the music myself to LA to master
the "Glory Daze" soundtrack. I had to gather over half the music lisences
from NoFX to The Bouncing Souls for the soundtrack. I did it all. No one
else ever was there to help. No corporate funding. None of this stuff
that Dave says. Now, the band is in Europe and it's me and a 23 year old
girl running the label. If you didn't know, if it wasn't for Joe quiting
CBS they would not of been able to do this touring for all of you.
On a different note: The Vandals have a new album coming out the last week
of this month. It's called "Oi To The World: Christmas With The Vandals".
I have some crappy .wav files of it on the web page that I set up and did
all myself at http://www.vandals.com/. The album will be released on Kung
Fu and was also another thing that was only made possible by Joe quiting
CBS. Oh yeah! I came up with the brilliant idea of having a limited
edition RED vinyl for the Christmas LP. There will be only 300 of them, I
placed the order two days ago. A contest of some sorts will be held on the
web page to win some copies. The rest will be randomly placed into our
distributors orders, good luck finding some. Another thing, the .wav files
are lower quality but they are about 1/6 the size of what they were before.
If you want to here a better .wav of the first track, "A Gun For
Christmas", go strait to http://www.vandals.com/audio/oiworld/1-gun2.wav
The ones that are on the page itself aren't too bad really.
--
eRiK G
digit...@vandals.com
www.vandals.com
Ben Brucato <bru...@brutus.bright.net> wrote in article
<5448nb$q...@cletus.bright.net>...
dave
This goes out to Erik Digital Boy and anyone else who is interested:
(its in response to his response of my initial post about KUNG FU RECORDS)
Dear Erik,
Thanks for responding so promptly to my post. Thanks for accusing me of
being a liar, a coward, a thief, gay, etc. just cause i dare threaten the
beloved VANDALS (who by the way, pay your paychecks,
incidently.......hmmm). Fuck you very much for those personal attacks.
Seems like SOMEONE can't stick to the issue. (Kinda reminds me of Bob
Dole...hmmmm.....anyway...)
Yes, you got it "Dude", it is my assertion, that the VANDALS (actually,
the 2 members Warren and Joe who own KUNG FU) are not being open with what
KUNG FU is about, especially with what is the real deal behind their
financial and business dealings. Even though you refuse to admit it
(prolly because yer another star struck kid who's just happy to be working
for the someone as "punk" as the VANDALS...like ohmigosh!),I'm not the
only one who feels this way about KUNG FU records. For your information,
they've already been banned from countless punk zines, including
MAXIMUMROCKNROLL. (and needless to say from my own zine BIG BANG).
I think its funny that you try to use ME (a 17 year old, just like you,
Erik) as the scapegoat for ALL of the criticism that the VANDALS/KUNG FU
(and NITRO for that matter) are getting from the punk scene. For your
information, I am not "Joe Bruce". Although I wish i was the one who
thought of his idea first, I did not send letters to countless fanzines
about KUNG FU's fucked up business affairs (but like i said, i wish i
fucking DID!).
You feel threatened that someone besides some kid you can easily slag off
as "punker than thou" or whatever thinks KUNG FU is full of poo.
If you know ANYTHING about me at all (which you claim you do and which I
seriously doubt), you'd know that i have NEVER hidden behind cloaked
identities or aliases......Ok, man....think critically and logically for
just one second....(i know its hard, but just try)...if i wanted to hide
my identity, then why the FUCK would I put my name to a posting on the
fucking internet for thousands of people to read?? doh. Feeling stupid
yet?
Also, i wanted to respond to your writing off fairly conclusive evidence
of KUNG FU's shaddy affairs, as "half-truths". Um, is it not true that
the VANDALS have reissued 2 albums on TIMEBOMB/BMG??? Isn't it also true
that members of the VANDALS have a long history of dealing with major
labels in general? If i remember correctly didn't guitarist WARREN
FITZGERALD play in fuckin OINGO BOINGO of all bands? Oh yeah, and wasn't
thedrummer, Josh Freeze in the REPLACEMENTS??? How punk. Couple that with
JOE ESCALANTE's cushy job at CBS along with all of the "friends" he
associates with (like millionaire manager, Jim Guirnot, who...you guessed
it...also OWNS TIMEBOMB "coincidently") and their ain't much punk or DIY
left in that equation, now is there??? Now, why then, do the VANDALS try
to associate themselves with this type of "careless, silly,DIY punk-rebel"
image. Could it be that its because that image SELLS?? I think so, and
They recognize this too. Thanks to their "old school" punk creds, they
can now capitalize on it through endevours such as KUNG FU records.
Isn't it funny that people who have for so long abandoned the punk scene
financially and ideologically are now back touring and starting a record
label? The points you brought up like "i shipped every single Cd" or
whatever are irrelevent. I dont give a fuck WHICH shit-worker ships their
cds! Look at it from a higher perspective. What is the ONE most
SIGNIFICANT reason that the vandals started KUNG FU???
(hint: $$)
Furthermore, all of the above postulating (and the logical conclusions
which we can draw from them) go hand in hand with all of the other hard,
undeniable evidence. Things like printing "manufactured and distributed
by TIMEBOMB" in their ads for MONTHS in certain magzines; Things like
plainly stating (more like bragging actually) in INTERVIEWS, that Kung Fu
are in fact being distributed by TIMEBOMB/BMG; and thing like even
printing "manufactured and distributed by TIMEBOMB" on the Assorted
Jellybeans/Vandals split 7" all lead to the same conclusion. Its no
"accident", don't buy that shit. JOE ESCALANTE didnt just suddenly "change
his mind" and decide to become a DIY punk label. Do you expect people to
IGNORE the evidence???? to IGNORE their history???? Stop insulting my
intelligence.
Oh yeah, you also stated that KUNG FU has now suddenly decided to print
their distributer list on their ads. Thats a pretty expected move from a
label who is trying to catorgically deny ANY affiliation with major
labels. I used to list distributers in my ads since day 1 of Liberation
Records so I could let stores know where to get the records from. Alot of
small, up-start DIY punk labels do it for that reason because they can't
afford to send one-sheets out to every store, mailorder, etc. in the
country. But in KUNG FU's case (a label with a lot of money,
connections,etc) its obviously a desperate attempt to prove how "indie" they
are. That would be like if EPITAPH or NITRO printed their list of
distributers in their ads. Its ridiculous and it spits in the face of
REAL DIY ethically punk labels who do the same thing because they NEED it.
And now for the personal shit you brought up. No, I don't "make up"
"half-truths". No, I'm not gay. Yes, i pay my bands. Ask the 2 bands on
my label, HOME GROWN and DONUTS N GLORY if they think I'm dishonest. Ask
stores and distributers who I've dealt with. Fuck, ask the fanzines that I
regularly contribute to like INTERBANG, ANGRY THOREAUAN, etc. The fact
that you need to conjure up tabboo's about me kinda shows how much of a
jerk you really are.
P.S. I have ALWAYS thought that the Vandals sucked, musically. I think
the most offensive thing you said in your whole letter was the fact that
you thought i actually LIKED their music and went to a radio show to see
the fucking VANDALS. Yes, you did see me at KUCI radio show when they played
but it wasn't "to see the VANDALS". Did you realize, fucker, that i
attend SCHOOL at UCI and hence usually go to EVERY airing of KUCI's radio
show?? Honestly, I have never been a VANDALS fan. Actually, don't just
take my word for it, go read back issues of my zine where I've given the
VANDALS consistantly shitty reviews on the basis of their boring,
redundant, and oh-so-played out music.
Best of luck in your Punk Rock Career as a KUNG FU shit-worker,
Dave Liberation
Ben Brucato
van...@hotmail.com (Vandals) writes:
(sniP)
> and you do such a damn good job erik. i enjoyed this read, even though
> i already knew most of what you said. i had no idea who dave was
> before this shit but let's jsut say that he does not make a good first
> impression when he talks about shit like that and doesn't know the
> whole truth about the situation(s).
>
> Krissy
> pun...@vandals.com
>
> heehee
> :)
I find it interesting you say that he doesn't know anything about
the situation. In Big Bang #1, there will be a spread featuring
Kung Fu ads bearing "manufactured and distributed by Time Bomb"
on them, interviews from other magazies with Joe Escalante where he bragged about this
"Great" new affiliation with Time Bomb that Kung Fu was able to get,
interviews from other magazines with Jim Guirnot where he talks about
their "new subsidiary, Kung Fu," etc. The list goes on. Dave did his
homework on this one. It's not half-truths, it's hard evidence. It
comes from the horses' mouths, saying themselves that they are indeed
a major label subsidiary. He knows the truth, and obviously you're
motivated (by what I do not know) to ignore the truth.
Remember, people throw their affiliation in all sorts of directions,
and other people will remember that. Stick up for these people (Joe, Vandals, Kung Fu), ignore
the truth, etc. and people will remember. Watch who you support people.
I strongly suggest you look into this matter before supporting Joe,
The Vandals, Kung Fu Records, etc.
Ben Interbang <who in no way has ever or will ever support those clowns.>
Ben Brucato
"eRiK G" <digit...@vandals.com> writes:
> Ben,
>
> Where are you coming from? Are you one of Davey boy's friends? Are you a
> mindless punk who believes Dave and Dave's alias "Joe Bruce" without ever
> thinking for yourself?
Interesting questions. I come from Northeast Ohio. I'm one of Dave's friends, also.
I'm not a "mindless punk who believes and Dave," I carefully consider his arguments
and weigh them with the (extensive, in this case) evidence he has available, and
compare the argument and his evidence with my evidence. Some rare times he's wrong,
but in most he's right, and this is one of those times. Also, what reason do you have
to believe Dave is "Joe Bruce?" Do you have ANY evidence. I know Dave quite well, and
he would *LOVE* to admit he was Joe Bruce, if indeed he was, but unfortunately for you
(because that means other people out their know of the corruption of YOUR EMPLOYERS [!!!]
so you therefore don't have one target you so witlessly can argue against.) Incidentally
I printed out your argument and presented it to a philosophy professor, and he said
that your entire argument was riddled with faulty reason. Consider taking a logic class
or something ... I've never seen someone sidestep the issues as much as you did when
you replied to the post.
>I am 17. I ran Kung Fu out of a 10x13 room that
> was half a Kung Fu office and half a sports room; and half a garage was
> used for inventory and shipping. I did everything. I handled all
> shipping, place some ads that didn't get placed before the band went on
> tour. I set up interviews. I took all the music myself to LA to master
> the "Glory Daze" soundtrack. I had to gather over half the music lisences
> from NoFX to The Bouncing Souls for the soundtrack. I did it all. No one
> else ever was there to help. No corporate funding. None of this stuff
> that Dave says. Now, the band is in Europe and it's me and a 23 year old
> girl running the label. If you didn't know, if it wasn't for Joe quiting
> CBS they would not of been able to do this touring for all of you.
Like I said... Side stepping the issues. This in no way means that Kung
Fu is not a major label subsidiary. That's just like saying that because
most of the guys from Rancid live in a small apartment with several roomates
above a liquor store in the worst part of Oakland (which is true, or was true
not long ago) that they don't have enormous guarentees for shows. It means
nothing. It's a way to sidestep the issues at hand. This sidestepping is
clearly a result of your inability to present a logical counter-argument,
because (1) there is NO information to support your argument, and (2) it
is quite possible your ability to reason isn't very good.
Fuck you very much,
Ben Interbang
SAdamescu
Yep this is old news but some people still dont know.... Its in Wroth #6
fanzine...
Wroth
eRiK G
Ben,
The writing style is very similar between "Joe Bruce" and Dave Libelation.
Plus they both have this freakish desire to get everyone to hate Kung Fu
Records (and/or the Vandals). About those early Kung Fu ads (and Vandals
interviews), I even said in one of my previous posts that I know they said
"man. and dist. by time bomb". But I also said that all that is history.
Time Bomb is no longer connected to Kung Fu, they haven't been for some
time now. It is that simple.
Why was my post even worth bringing to a philosophy professor? You said
that he concluded that I have faulty reason... My reason comes from
working at the record label. I know how things work there. I don't need
to explain everything that I do at Kung Fu, that would be boring. It's the
same thing as whatever happened to Dave while at Epitaph. He thought very
highly of the place, until he interned there and saw how things were ran.
I had no idea of what Kung Fu was, Joe had me stop by there once to give me
some info for the web site I was in the middle of making. I start going to
the Kung Fu house more often, and pretty soon I was into it. Now, it's one
of the biggest parts of my life. I am there during the week from 1 to 6
now that high school is back in session. When it was at the house I was
there from 10 to 6. My point being, I personally know the complete story
of Kung Fu.
You said that even though I personally handled Kung Fu by myself, I have
no proof of us not being a subsidiary of a major. I want to know what it
is then that Time Bomb does or should be doing to help us out. Certainly
we aren't getting it. We don't even need it anyways. We got some strong
releases and the two of us are handling everything fine. So take that to
your philosophy professor.
--
eRiK G
digit...@vandals.com
www.vandals.com
Ben Brucato <bru...@brutus.bright.net> wrote in article
<546gml$9...@cletus.bright.net>...
Mark Allan Hoppus
In this whole debate on whether or not Kung Fu Records is a "punk rock"
label, Dave liberation, self-proclaimed "Lord of all that is Punk,"
(and who has only been involved in the scene for two years) writes:
Yes, i pay my bands. Ask the 2 bands on
>my label, HOME GROWN and DONUTS N GLORY if they think I'm dishonest.
Yeah, maybe that is a good idea. Talk to Homegrown about if they think
Dave is dishonest. Ask them about how he signed their band, giving
them one of the SHITTIEST royalty rates I have ever seen on any
recording contract. Then ask them how prompt he was on payment of
those royalties. I'll give you a hint. They had to threaten to take
him to court and try to get out of their contract before he paid up.
He finally did. Then, ask them how stoked they are to be on Liberation
Records when Dave puts out a promotional sampler which has three
Homegrown songs on it, and on the liner notes of that same sampler, he
prints a veiled insult about them. I bet they're really stoked.
But don't just take their word for it. Ask the bands that donated
songs to Dave for his "Punk Sucks" compilation. Ask them how honest
Dave was about holding up his end of the agreement. At the beginning,
Dave claimed that he was going to be making no money from the comp, and
could not pay the bands. Instead, as form of payment, for every 1000
CDs that he pressed, the bands would receive 25 copies each to sell at
shows. In this way, the bands could decide how much they would sell
the comp for, and in that way, the bands decided for themselves how
much they "got paid." Well, it has been a year. Punk Sucks has done
more than 20,000 copies, so basically each band should have gotten 500
CDs. I'm not sure exactly how many copies the other bands got, but I
can tell you exactly how many we got-75. And Unwritten Law, another
band on his comp got a whole ten CDs for their contribution. Ask them
how honest they think Dave is. Ask them how he treats the bands he
puts out. And furthermore on this whole Punk Sucks thing--look at the
numbers. At least 20,000 copies sold. Most CDs wholesale for about
$7.50. Let's give Dave the benefit of the doubt and say that he sells
his for only $5.00. That's $100,000. Dave paid for none of the
recording, he pays no royalties to the artists. Therefore, his only
expenses are advertising and the cost to print the discs (about $1.50
each). Basically, the bands on Punk Sucks got reamed and Dave made a
shitload of money for his label.
But that isn't the only way that Dave fucked over the bands that helped
him with his comp. Pennywise gave him a song. Obviously, Pennywise is
big enough that being on a comp put out by some 16 year old kid isn't
really going to help their career that much. Same with Sublime, who
also donated a song. They helped out someone who they honestly
believed needed help getting started. What did they get for donating a
song and not getting paid? Dave puts out a zine and writes shit about
them, calling them sellouts, blah blah blah. Same with us, Unwritten
Law, Homegrown, Voodoo Glow Skulls, etc, etc, etc... So he writes us
all off now. However, he not only still sells the CD, but uses these
same bands in advertisments for the comp! So, he asks bands for songs,
makes a shitload of money from the comp, welches on his agreements with
the bands, turns around and stabs the bands in the backs by writing
shit about them, and then uses the bands' names to continue selling the
comp. Ask the bands on this comp if they are stoked or if they think
Dave is honest. Shit, ask me. I'll tell you all about it.
Ask Epitaph how they feel about Dave. When Dave first decided two
years ago that he wanted to be punk, he went to Epitaph and asked to be
an intern there. They took him under their wing and began showing him
the ropes of the music bidniss. He used these connections to get the
bands he eventually used. In fact, the first call that we got about
being on the Punk Sucks comp began "Hey, this is Dave. I work at
Epitaph and I'm putting together a comp..." Now, if you read any of
his "punk bible" zines, he writes off Epitaph. "They're
sellouts...major label...I'm punker and better blah blah blah...."
Once again, Dave uses someone else for his own purposes, gets what he
wants, moves on, and talks shit. Talk to Epitaph. See how they feel
about Dave and his loyalty and honesty.
I hope that Dave's intentions are good, and they probably are. The
music industry is a rotten, twisted, dishonest place to be, and no
one's hands are clean. But for Dave to sit on his high throne and go
on and on writing shit about everyone and trying to claim that he is
some kind of punk rock martyr is ridiculous. I don't think that these
past two years have proven how honest and punk Dave is. I think it
just shows how easy it is to live with mommy and daddy, make a shitload
of money, fuck over bands, concentrate on being negative, write shit
about everyone, and generally bring the whole scene down.
Take care of yourselves, and try to be good to one another--
Mark Hoppus
p.s.Dave, if you're reading this, I know you and I know the Vandals.
And let me tell you that those guys are a million times more punk in
attitude and ethic than you will ever be. AND they have been doing it
since before you were in first fucking grade! You sir, are no
Jack Kennedy!!!
Loren
Ben Brucato <bru...@brutus.bright.net> wrote:
>Loren, I hope so much that your apathy is in no way representative
>of the average so called punk. The Vandals/Kung Fu are corporate assholes
>sucking off of lathargic morons like you who refuse to recognize
>that they are about as punk than Shell Patroleum.
hmmm, ouch...but yeah, you got me pegged. i am pretty lathargic (or lazy, i don't like to use too many big words.) i am not repres=
enting anything but myself...i'm not a "punk," or so called "punk." i respect all that is being said, but i am sticking by the vand=
als, and kung fu. i have liked their music for a while, and have never paid more than 8 dollars for any of their shows, or shows by=
any of the bands on the kung fu label. this includes cds, and other stuff.
i don't care if they are "punk" or not, and i am sure they don't really care either. (why you do is beyond me, damn...there is that=
laziness thing again.) i like what their music is about. (consequently not too much.) and i also find them fucking hilarious.....=
...too bad i don't seem to fit into the predisposed pseudonym that you have all figured out. i have learned a lot from the posts t=
o this newsgroup, and will continue to read them, but this is getting lame...heaven forbid anyone like a group supported by a major.=
for every group i like affiliated with a big corporation, i probably like five that are not...oohhahh, am i punk now?
you live off of those corporate assholes, think about it (i'm sure you have.) it's the same old argument, and story. the best anyo=
ne can do is recognize where their money is going. be educated, and make their own decisions.
loren
BILLY HARRIGAN
In <01bbbc9f$71f93500$886b55ce@default> "eRiK G"
I HAD A HARD ON ONCE.
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АБВА л I I I I I л АВБА
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АБВлллВБА АБВлллллВБА АБВлВБА
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nerv...@geocities.com
may...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netcom.com/~mayhan
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Ben Brucato
Loren <thek...@mail.telis.org> writes:
> Ben Brucato <bru...@brutus.bright.net> wrote:
> >Loren, I hope so much that your apathy is in no way representative
> >of the average so called punk. The Vandals/Kung Fu are corporate assholes
> >sucking off of lathargic morons like you who refuse to recognize
> >that they are about as punk than Shell Patroleum.
>
>
> hmmm, ouch...but yeah, you got me pegged. i am pretty lathargic (or lazy, i don't like to use too many big words.) i am not repres=
> enting anything but myself...i'm not a "punk," or so called "punk." i respect all that is being said, but i am sticking by the vand=
> als, and kung fu. i have liked their music for a while, and have never paid more than 8 dollars for any of their shows, or shows by=
> any of the bands on the kung fu label. this includes cds, and other stuff.
Well, that does actually mean something... See, if you don't consider
yourself Punk, then you probably don't ascribe to the abstract, yet
defined belief structure and ethics that (true) Punk stands for. Therefore
you're looking at this from a COMPLETELY different perspective. If you
don't believe in the DIY ethic then of course you wouldn't argue on
behalf of it. Therefore, the argument you use fits into your belief
structure (namely that you don't give a damn about who's ripping off the
scene).
Just curious... If you don't consider yourself punk, why come to alt.punk?
> i don't care if they are "punk" or not, and i am sure they don't really care either. (why you do is beyond me, damn...there is that=
> laziness thing again.) i like what their music is about. (consequently not too much.) and i also find them fucking hilarious.....=
> ...too bad i don't seem to fit into the predisposed pseudonym that you have all figured out. i have learned a lot from the posts t=
> o this newsgroup, and will continue to read them, but this is getting lame...heaven forbid anyone like a group supported by a major.=
> for every group i like affiliated with a big corporation, i probably like five that are not...oohhahh, am i punk now?
YOU'RE RIGHT!!!!!!!! They don't care if they're being punk, they
just want to make people think that they are! They really care about
money, primarily.
> you live off of those corporate assholes, think about it (i'm sure you have.) it's the same old argument, and story. the best anyo=
> ne can do is recognize where their money is going. be educated, and make their own decisions.
>
> loren
>
Yeah, I've definitely thought about it. I'm generally a consumer activist
(among other things) but there's a few luxuries I'm not yet willing to
give up (electric, gas, a car, food [because the only food available is
mass produced in a 20+ mile radius around here - no food co-ops! it sucks!],
etc.). Someday I may have the nerve to give it all up, move to a warmer
state and be homeless, but right now, I'll have to deal with my Packard Bell
computer and my Ford which makes me immediately a hypocrite. But when it
comes to the simpler things, such as where you buy your records and what ones
you buy, or what restaurants you eat at, or what brands of clothes you buy
(2nd hand is best - RECYCLE!) etc. etc. Your last point is a good one. One
which I struggle with daily.
Ben Interbang
tang
hey
okay, i don't want to take any sides in this argument just yet. like most
people reading this right now, i am just on the sideline, reading both
arguments. but i just want to make some clarification here about dave
and epitaph. he'll respond later, he's in class right now....
> Ask Epitaph how they feel about Dave. When Dave first decided two
> years ago that he wanted to be punk, he went to Epitaph and asked to be
> an intern there. They took him under their wing and began showing him
> the ropes of the music bidniss. He used these connections to get the
> bands he eventually used. In fact, the first call that we got about
> being on the Punk Sucks comp began "Hey, this is Dave. I work at
> Epitaph and I'm putting together a comp..." Now, if you read any of
> his "punk bible" zines, he writes off Epitaph. "They're
> sellouts...major label...I'm punker and better blah blah blah...."
> Once again, Dave uses someone else for his own purposes, gets what he
> wants, moves on, and talks shit. Talk to Epitaph. See how they feel
> about Dave and his loyalty and honesty.
dave and i started working at epitaph right around the same time and
that's how i met him. dave used to be a huge epitaph fan and that's why
he wanted to work there. but i guess he was very depressed and
disappointed after the first week there. dave did not start becoming punk
there, he already had 2 issues of his fanzine "innovative plagerism" out,
and the punk sucks comp was DONE before he started working at epitaph.
how many of us proclaimed "PUNK" has done anything for the scene? and
this was when he was only 15 years old.
his connections to get bands weren't from epitaph, it was from a much
smaller label called Fearless Records. you also forgot to mention that
when Dave was working for epitaph, he did NOT get paid a penny, it was for
one summer. i don't know what you called learning the music business, but
all we did in those 3 months were to entered fan names into the computer
and called stores to see if they got the latest albums out on epitaph.
Dave still likes epitaph, he has a place in his heart that still believes
they would go back to the punk ethics they started out with. There are
things about epitaph that he still admires and there are things he is
against. so you might call it talking "shit" about epitaph, but all Dave
is doing is writing/expressing his opinion on things he thinks is not
ethical, in hopes that they would change for the better. isn't that
just a part of being punk? questioning everyone?
love
tang
bug
Mark's post is one of the funniest I've read in a long time - remember
kids, these comments are all coming from a band (Blink) who:
1. No one had ever heard of before Punk Sucks came out.
2. Are currently distributed through EMI (One of the largest
'entertainment' corporations in the world.)
3. Have admitted, to my face, that punk is nothing more than a 'sound'
to them.
4. Are probably going to sign to Epitaph, so they are not attacking
Dave, but trying to defend themselves in advance - and sucking up,
too!
5. Have sold over 50,000 records (add that up kids, does your
calculator go that high?) Put it this way, it's more than Dave has
sold of all of his releases combined.
As far as the Homegrown issue, come on Mark, do you feel bad for Face
To Face too? You know that there is far more to the story than what
you've stated - what about the Liberation record coming out on Burning
Heart?
Mark, I have never had a serious problem with anyone in Blink, I
almost consider Tom a friend, but your post is way off the mark (ha!)
My post is as stupid as yours because I've done what you did, attack
the poster instead of the post. So it goes.
Tim
Liquid Meat Records
Loren
>Just curious... If you don't consider yourself punk, why come to alt.punk?
hmmm...i guess i missed the "only mohawks, chains, and nipple piercings allowed" sign on the way in. seriously though, i enjoy read=
ing the posts, and most of my favorite bands are classified under the now mainstream term of punk rock. like i said before, i have =
learned a lot from the posts here. obviously, i don't post here a lot. i just felt like sticking up for a band that i like. plus,=
i tried some other newsgroups, and they lagged.
anyway, just because i like the music, doesn't classify me as a punk(as we all know.) thus, i choose to not label myself, anyway i =
hate labels. i totally respect your opinions and beliefs. it's funny because, we agree on what is going on, but we choose to act i=
n different ways. you obviously think it is wrong, and i well...i just don't really care. i have come to the conclusion, that in m=
y life, who is doing what on what label and all of that stuff, just really doesn't matter. if i like the music, then i don't care w=
hich who or what owns it produced it whatever. as long as i keep myself educated, and aware of what is going on, then atleast i kno=
w. i can't say that for most people. so anyway...this is getting way too self rightous. all i have to say is keep up with your be=
liefs, because in the end that is all you are going to have. you are a smart guy, and i was impressed to see that you acknowledged =
the fact that your life is full of contradictions. but, i think you are doing what you can.
loren (queen of the run-on sentence)
tang
On 19 Oct 1996, Loren wrote:
> >Just curious... If you don't consider yourself punk, why come to alt.punk?
>
> hmmm...i guess i missed the "only mohawks, chains, and nipple piercings
> allowed" sign on the way in. seriously though, i enjoy reading the
> anyway, just because i like the music, doesn't classify me as a punk(as
> we all know.) thus, i choose to not label myself, anyway i hate labels.
uhhh, you just contradicted yourself. not all punks have mohawks, chains,
and nipple piercings. if you hate labels, why do you label others. this
is not meant as an attack, just a thought.
tang
dave lib
YAY!
ALRIGHT!!!
I just got to read a post from yet ANOTHER asshole sellout (mark from BLINK)
who doesn't like me now for talking "shit" about his retarded (and
corrupt) band. Mark's idea of getting back at me for critizing the
fraudulant actions of his band is (obviously to anyone who knows me)
wholly BOGUS.
Its a weird (yet rewarding) feeling having all these rockstars-in-waiting
jump all over me. You know, all the ones that've made such virtuous
contributions to our independent underground punk scene (heehee) . I
guess the corrupted always try to find SOMETHING to get people to stop
listening to muck-rackers like me . Oh well, FUCK 'em. The thing that
really irks me though, is that I've worked too hard and sacrificed too
much to let some major-label dick-licker mall punk tell me I'm acting "too
punk" and that I rip-off my bands and then have the nerve to call me a
posuer (Hey, mark, what do you call all your FANS??) Thats kinda why I'm
going to even bother addressing Mark from Blink's bogus alligations.
First of all, Mr. Mark Allan Hoppus, stop revising history. You
had your manager, Rick DeVoe (a noted industry sleaze ball) call ME
and ask ME to put your then unknown band on my compilation. Oh, and you
were NEVER told that I "worked at Epitaph and was putting together a
compilation". You know why? Because i didn't even BEGIN working at
Epitaph until four MONTHS AFTER "punk sucks" was OUT. Also, you were never
told that I "wasn't go to make any money off of the comp." and you were
never promised "25 copies per 1000" of the comp.. Ok, calculater boy, if i
gave all 30 bands on the comp. 25 copies each per 1000 I pressed, I'd
be giving away 750 copies out of each 1000 I pressed before I even took
out my expenses. Come on, I know your song lyrics are stupid, but are you
REALLY that dumb?? The deal was that each band would get 5 per thousand so
I'd be giving away a reasonable 150 per 1000 CD's to the bands. You know
it too, since your signature is on the simple one page contract that you
signed to be on the comp. which stated exactly that. Stop being such a
liar, you idiot. In fact, come to think of it, I never even spoke to you
at ALL when getting BLINK on PUNK SUCKS. All correspondance went through
Cargo and your manager so how dare you misquote me (actually not
MISquote, but more like Fabricate quotes) you paranoid lying sack
of shit. Maybe your memory goes away with your ethics, who knows.
Oh yeah, and to set the record straight, PUNK SUCKS wholesales for $7, not
$7.50 like "most" CD's wholesale for. "Most" apparently meaning what
Cargo charges for your overpriced BLINK CDs. (Hmmm, did i say
CARGO?? oops! I forgot about your new distributer EMI....I wonder how much
your wholesale prices are now..hmm). Anyway, I have SHIPPED (note: not
gotten paid for, SHIPPED) about 22,000 copies of PUNK SUCKS since its been
out. Out of that, I've probably gotten paid for about 18,000 or so. I
typically make $3 per CD after my expenses (ie. advertising, pressing,
postage, phone bills, etc). And note that I have spent the last year
and a half of my life to accomplish that. (and by the way, for the record, UNWRITTEN LAW didn't get "like 7 copies"
of the CD. I went back and checked my UPS records and they've gotten 110
so far, just so ya know.) Do the math, I'm not rich yet. On the other
hand, who are YOU to talk? Hasn't your band sold in excess of 50,000
copies through major label distribution?? Oh yeah, and for good measure I
guess, you demand $4,000+ guarantees EACH time you play Southern
California. How punk. Shall I even mention the $500-$2,000 a night you
make just off of merchandising??
About your allegations that I ripped-off Home Grown, it's about as far from
the truth as you are to the DIY ethic. Yeah, Home Grown, DID try to sue
me, but it was to steal away the album I put out by them. The matter with
them was eventually settled out of court, but ask JOHN from Home Grown
right now and he'll tell you that they stabbed me in the back to tryed and
get the record off of Liberation and onto a label with bigger money to
promote them since they were getting played on KROQ. They tried to use
the excuse that I "didn't pay" them to take the record away. I have
copies of endorsed checks to PROVE that I did. Now that the matter has
been settled between us, they'll admit that what they did was wrong.
Ask them. While you're at it, also ask these folks (who unlike you, have
a tad of credability and an apreciation for honesty) what they think of
me and how I run my label:THE BOLLWEEVILS, AGAINST ALL AUTHORITY/FAR OUT
RECORDS,SQUIRT GUN,NAKED AGRESSION, WHITE KAPS, NO USE FOR A NAME, STRUNG OUT,
BEN INTERBANG, WINGNUT RECORDS, INSTA-NOISE RECORDS, VINYL SOLUTION
RECORDS, PAT/PINKIE RECORDS, TIM/LIQUID MEAT RECORDS, TANG at KUCI, MIKE/
CUSTODIAL RECORDS, REVELATION, EZZAT at the SHOWCASE THEATER, SUPERNOVICE,
DANNY/COOL GUY RECORDS, MEAN STREET MAGAZINE,TONY LEE/NEWSPEAK RECORDS,
ZOINKS, MAN DINGO, JOEY VINDICTIVE, FYP/RECESS RECORDS, RHYTHM COLLISION,
REV RANDALL/ANGRY THOREAUAN, THE NEIGHBORS, etc. Those are just a FEW of
the nice people who'll vouch for my honesty. Sure, the sellouts who I
call on their shit will obviously have bad things to say about me. But,
DUH, what do you expect, moron?
Mark, I think you should just stick to writing songs about farts and
masturbation. Trust me, its what you're best at.
Sorry for "concentrating on being negative". Damn, I hope I don't
possibly *offend* anyone......
Love,
DAVE LIBERATION
P.S. Mark, if you are reading this, I'd be glad to take your band OFF of
PUNK SUCKS. Just pay me for all the free promotion you got from it first.
:) <wink, wink>
dave lib
Ah, more to respond to from the illustrious mr. erik g........
"I am the proof"..?? Geez Louise...you really ARE running out of
evidence to support your claims, aren't ya?? That's so funny (and
irrelevent,by the way) that I was almost NOT gonna even comment on your post.
But, as you probably could've predicted, I won't pass up on the
oppurtunity to AGAIN show how moronic your arguement really is.
What makes you think that just cause you're a measly KUNG FU shit-worker,
that you somehow know the inside financial dealings of the members of the
VANDALS? You admitted yourself, you know nothing about the record
business. You said you hardly even knew the guys and just started
"hanging around" KUNG FU alot after Joe called you up. Come on,
if they are hiding their affiliation with Timebomb/Arista/BMI to the REST
of the world, why the FUCK would they decide to tell YOU about it?? In
fact, since they know your an impressionable, devout young VANDALS fan,
you'd probably be the LAST person who they'd want to tell.
BESIDES, even assuming TIMEBOMB isn't directly involved in the Manufac.
and Dist.of KUNG FU (which I HIGHLY doubt considering the evidence), the
VANDALS can't deny their other strong and intimate ties to MAJOR LABELS.
Whether its re-releasing their own music on TIMEBOMB/BMG or taking major
label bands on tour with them as favors to their "friends" in "the
business" or including major label bands on KUNG FU's major label movie
soundtracks, the VANDALS aren't exactly the paragons of indie virtue that
they want all "the kids" to think.
I could care less about the VANDALS personally, but when they try to
scam their way into the hearts/pockets of the younger punk kids who
blindly respect their "old school" creds, thats when I start to examine the
situation, look at the evidence, make a judgement, and then share my
findings with others. I'd done a good deal of research and investigating
on this matter and I came to my conclusion. The conclusion is what
motivated me to expose the VANDALS and KUNG FU, not some "freakish desire
to get everyone to hate Kung Fu Records". If you have any REAL evidence to
prove me wrong, I'd love to see it. And if you DID prove me wrong, I
would totally kiss your ass and admit that I was wrong, I promise.
Unfortunatly, you haven't brought up any issues worthy of merit.
A "freakish desire to get everyone to hate Kung Fu Records" HAHAHA
Nice defense, I'm impressed. If THAT doesn't show everyone your lack of a
good explanation (because you don't HAVE one), then I don't know what
ever will.
Oh yeah, a couple more things:
1) Since I see your arguement for what it is (that is, going nowhere),
this is the last response you'll get from me on this issue until you bring
up some substantial and hard proof to back you're claims rather than the
"Oh-but-I-work-so-hard" sob stories you've supplied us with so far.
2) For everyone else that's interested or curious, BIG BANG fanzine #1
will be featuring the complete guide to the REAL Kung Fu Records including
INTERVIEW clippings with THE VANDALS, JIM GUIRNOT & TIMEBOMB, clippings of
old Kung Fu ads, copies showing the Timebomb name on early records on Kung
Fu, and a few more bits of conclusive evidence exposing KungFuGate. If
anyone has anymore info. regarding Kung Fu that they think might be of
service, please forward them to us. Thanks for your help.
Dave
Liberation.
dave lib
Besides the lovely and intricate KungFu Records expose', here's what else
one will see in the first issue of BIG BANG.....interviews with TIM
YOHANNON of MRR, DR.STRANGE, PROPAGANDHI, PINK LINCOLNS, and WINSTON SMITH....
....columns by lotsa nice scenesters including Brandon CONNIE DUNG, JOEY
VINDICTIVE, PAT TERMITE, PETE MENCHETI/STICKER GUY, BEN INTERBANG, moi,
IRWIN ALL THE ANSWERS, and a couple more....oh yeah, and the usual reviews
and stuff.
No this isn't a commercial, we don't want your money. Our zine is
non-profit and FREE everywhere. Our first press run will be 40,000 copies
worldwide and if we get enough ads, we might even do a color cover.
Volunteer Distributers already include MORDAM DISTRIBUTION, RHETHORIC
RECORDS, FAR OUT RECORDS, BAD TASTE RECORDS, ROTZ, SKULL DUGGERY,
REVELATION, WINGNUT, DR STRANGE, and a TON of kids just willing to help.
If you wanna help to, please get in touch.
It'll be out in a 2-3 weeks.
Thanks and take care,
Dave Liberation....
email me back or snail mail @
BIG BANG-WEST
PO BOX 17746
ANAHEIM, CA 92817
Mark Allan Hoppus
First of all Dave, the information that I got about the issues of
Homegrown and Unwritten Law came directly from members of the bands. I
talked to Scott from Unwritten Law and asked him how many copies of the
comp that they got and ten copies is what he told me. (By the way, I'd
stay away from those guys if I were you. I don't belive in violence as
a wayt to solve disputes, but they sure do, and I would hate for you to
suffer the wrath of Wade, their drummer. Something about a pipe, your
legs, and your ass...) And for Homegrown, they called me upset about
the fact that they were not getting paid thier royalties, and asked
what I thought that they should do. I'm stoked for both of you that you
settled the matter out of court. It should work out better for the
both of you. However, if they were anxious to take their record and
have it put out by someone who would get them on KROQ, why did you
fight their leaving? From what you write on this newsgroup and in your
zine, why would you want to be affiliated with such a band? When we
were being played on 91x here in San Diego, you began writing us off
and cutting your ties with us, so I don't understand why you would
insist that Homegrown stay on Liberation Records if they wanted to be
on KROQ. You only paid for half of their recording, and according to
them, they have sold several thousand copies, so unless you have
horrible business sense, you must have recouped your investment and
made at least a little money for yourself. Why fight to keep them on
Liberation records? Why affiliate yourself with this type of band? If
your ethics are so strong, it would seem to me that you would not only
let them go, but actually push them off of Liberation Records. But I
suspect that not only do you like Homegrown personally (you should,
they're cool guys) but you know that they are a good band and are going
to sell a bunch of records, which is good for you and your label, good
for them, etc. But if you truly claim "punk" ethics over all else, I
don't understand... More than that, however, you STILL didn't answer
the question of why, if you try to treat your bands so well, you gave
them an incredibly shitty royalty rate in the first place, or why on
the Liberation Sucks sampler, you wrote what you did about them.
Also, you still didn't answer the question of why you use
Pennywise, Sublime, etc in the ads for the Punk Sucks comp if you
honestly think that they are sellout losers. Either 1) You aren't
really bothered THAT much by them being played on the radio/going major
whatever, or 2) it bothers you, but you know that their name recogition
will sell more copies. And let me say also here that not only do I
think that ALL of the bands on the comp rip, but I will also be the
first to admit that it helped us out. Lots of kids have told us that
that comp was the first place that they heard of our band and it got
them interested. I think that comps are a great idea both for fans and
bands. It gives kids a great chance to hear bands that they would
normally never be exposed to, and to your credit, Dave, you were one of
the first to get it together and make it happen. Now it seems that
everyone is putting together a comp. The problem I that I have with
you is what you have done since then. And not just because blink-182
has been the target. I honestly think that it shows bad form to use
bands on your comp and then write them off. And as far as us getting
on the comp, the first that I ever heard of it was when Laura from
Cargo Records called and said, "There is a guy who works at Epitaph who
is putting together a comp and wants you on it." I remember it well
because I remember wondering why Epitaph would want to put out a comp
with us on it, when we were on Cargo. And Rick Devoe has NO
recollection of ever talking to you. I called to ask him if he had
contacted you about getting us on Punk Sucks and I had to explain to
him exactly who were. The best that he could come up with was, "Isn't
that the guy that everyone hates?" So obviously someone is lying, but
the fact remains that for whatever reason, you put us on the comp.
And for the money thing. We have NEVER ONCE gotten paid $4000 to
play ANYWHERE. AND didn't I see you at a show last month where we were
playing a benfit show, not getting paid a dime? Didn't we play the
benefit show that you put on at the Barn? How much did we ask you to
pays us? Also, consider this. You sold 18,000 copies of Punk Sucks
and you said that you make $3 each AFTER expenses. Three dollars
profit for each CD sold. That is 54,000 dollars pure profit for a year
and a half of work. Not bad for someone who did nothing creative at
all (wrote no songs, played no instruments). You basically made
$54,000 on other peoples' talent. Now for us. Yes, we have sold about
50,000 copies of Cheshire Cat. For each CD that we sell, we get about
two bucks. Not only is that BEFORE our expenses, but we have three
people in our band, so do the math. AND we have been doing this for
four years. If we are such money hungry whores, why did we all live at
home until just recently? Why can I not afford to fix my car, which is
falling apart? You say that YOU aren't rich, but imply that WE are
rich rockstars, and that's just plain wrong.
Obviously, Dave, you and I have very divergent beliefs on what it
means to be punk (WHATEVER that is. Punk means a million things to a
million people). And I support your right to put out whatever bands
you want on your label, write whatever you want in your zine, or post
on this newsgroup. And I try respect your beliefs, even though you and
I don't see eye to eye on a lot of things. The problem that I have
with you is the attitude that you have when dealing with people and
issues that you don't agree with. It's like you think that your set of
beliefs and way of thinking are the only right way, and everyone else
is fucked. It's like a preacher who slams religion of a certain kind
down your throat. It's offensive to be told what to do. No one knows
about anyone else's life, so how can anyone try to tell anyone else how
to live? That is why I felt compelled to write what I did about
Liberation Records. Every time I read one of your zines or download a
post that you have written, it's the same thing--"These guys suck..."
"They aren't real punks...." "Somebody is a sellout." I think that it
is this kind of finger pointing negativism that is ruining all that is
good about this style of music. Bands should help each other, labels
should help each other, and zines should spend a little less time
talking shit about everyone and talking about why everything sucks and
a little more time being constructive. Of course if something pisses
you off, talk about it. But every time I look at this newsgroup or
pick up a zine it's the same damn thing. And you, owner of a label,
putter-outer of a zine, just perpetuate this. That's the problem that
I have with you. Plus, I still think that it shows bad form to ask
people for help, get it, and then turn around and write shit about
them, whether it be us, Pennywise, Homegrown, Epitaph, or whomever.
As far as our band and our beliefs, and ethics, I think that we
have stayed true to ourselves and to our fans. We know where we came
from, and know that without our fans, we would be nowhere. We're not
rockstars (not even rockstars-in-waiting) we're just three guys having
fun doing what we love. We did it in garages for three years, and
loved it, are doing it now and loving it, and will be doing it in
garages again later on, and still loving it.
And Dave, if you really hate me and our band as much as it seems
that you do, you might want to recheck your Liberation mailing list.
The other day we got a package from you containing the Donuts and Glory
full-length (which, by the way, rips. I think that they are a great
band, even if they feel the same way about blink-182 as you do). But
it also contained a form letter from the label, saying that you are
making enough money now to send out promos, and you thought that we
were people "cool" enough to merit receiving the disc. I'm sure it was
a clerical error, but you can't deny the irony of the whole thing.....
punk punk punk fucking punk til death i'm so fucking punk forver
Mark
p.s. I WOULD continue writing songs about farts and masturbation, but
I'm sick of using you as insiration for my songs. (sorry, that was
just too easy)
bug
On 20 Oct 1996 04:42:35 GMT, Mark from Blink wrote:
>Not bad for someone who did nothing creative at
>all (wrote no songs, played no instruments). You basically made
>$54,000 on other peoples' talent.
Mark -
If you knew all the work that goes into running a small label - if you
understood what it is to LOSE money for years and years so that your
friends' bands could get their records out, all of the time, time,
time, the money that you end up spending on things like shirts and
vans and stickers and phone calls for the band that never get written
down, money that you don't spend on unimportant things like food, just
everything that goes into it - then you would know how much a
statement like the one you made can hurt.
Tim
Liquid Meat Records
Ben Brucato
Loren <thek...@mail.telis.org> writes:
so anyway...this is getting way too self rightous. all i have to say is keep up with your be=
> liefs, because in the end that is all you are going to have. you are a smart guy, and i was impressed to see that you acknowledged =
> the fact that your life is full of contradictions. but, i think you are doing what you can.
>
> loren (queen of the run-on sentence)
In a perfect world we may just be friends! :)
tang
On 20 Oct 1996, Mark Allan Hoppus wrote:
> both of you. However, if they were anxious to take their record and
> have it put out by someone who would get them on KROQ, why did you
> fight their leaving? From what you write on this newsgroup and in your
> and cutting your ties with us, so I don't understand why you would
> insist that Homegrown stay on Liberation Records if they wanted to be
> on KROQ. You only paid for half of their recording, and according to
> them, they have sold several thousand copies, so unless you have
> horrible business sense, you must have recouped your investment and
> made at least a little money for yourself. Why fight to keep them on
> Liberation records? Why affiliate yourself with this type of band? If
Liberation Records did NOT try to keep Home Grown on the label. it was
mentioned by Dave at a meeting with Home Grown that "when you find another
label, ask them if they want to buy this one (That's Business)". Dave
wants to get rid of the current album on the label.
> don't understand... More than that, however, you STILL didn't answer
> the question of why, if you try to treat your bands so well, you gave
> them an incredibly shitty royalty rate in the first place, or why on
> the Liberation Sucks sampler, you wrote what you did about them.
dave will answer the first question later, i'll answer the second one.
okay, Dave got several nasty fax from Home Grown's lawyer and
got served with court papers one early morning. but Home Grown forgot one
thing, you can't sue anyone under 18 so the court papers were trashed. so
the band threatened to sue for his parents' house. Dave was scared as
shit, he was pushed into a corner, he didn't know what the fuck to do.
How would you like to go through this HELL? so the only way he thought he
could fight back was to let everyone know about Home Grown. and so in his
ads, he wrote stuff like "as heard on KROQ", and on the sampler that you
mentioned, he wrote "no thanks to icky, trendy KROQ-wannabee punk bands
like Orange County's very own you know who." (KROQ=mainstream trendy
radio station in los angeles area) i don't think there was nothing wrong
with what he wrote about them, if you understand what he went through, you
would know why he did what he did. but all of this is settled now.
> and a half of work. Not bad for someone who did nothing creative at
> all (wrote no songs, played no instruments). You basically made
> $54,000 on other peoples' talent. Now for us. Yes, we have sold about
oh, i don't even want to answer this one. if anyone ever gets a chance,
try starting a label. and then tell me if it requires talent, creativity,
patience, and more. and then tell me how much time and money it requires.
and then tell me how much hard work, headaches, risks it involves.
love
tang-i-wanna-make-enemies-faster-than-i-could-make-friends
The Mighty P-Ball
In article <5448nb$q...@cletus.bright.net> Ben Brucato <bru...@brutus.bright.net> writes:
>Loren, I hope so much that your apathy is in no way representative
>of the average so called punk. The Vandals/Kung Fu are corporate assholes
>sucking off of lathargic morons like you who refuse to recognize
>that they are about as punk than Shell Patroleum.
>
>
>
>> um, dave liberator...uh liberation, or whatever...please go and get some
>> rad, keep up the good work!
>>
>> Loren
>>
>>
>kung fu records is owned and operated by some of the vandals and
>.as far as i know the label is not affiliated w/a major
>.
dave lib
++++MARK BLINK CONTINUES HIS WRITTEN SELF-ABUSE++++
First of all "MARK ALLAN HOPPUS",
The information that you got about the issues of Home Grown and Unwritten
Law are totally bioused and one-sided (not to mention false). You try to
act like you know whats going on, but the sad truth is you're just ANOTHER
babbling fool who DOESN'T. As evident from your claims, you have no idea
what you're talking about.
Heck, you said it yourself, the fine folks at Epitaph think I'm a bad guy,
right? But even ask THEM when I began working there! You just refuse to
admit that you're totally and completely wrong. Why don't you go do some
research before you fabricate information about people who don't like you.
Who knows, maybe then, SOMEONE might actually believe you.
About Unwritten Law wanting to beat me up or whatever, that just shows the
type of complete idiots we're dealing with here. By the way, a buncha
stoner jockboys-gone-punk who wanna get rich off of this music even if it
means selling out to Epic/Sony don't exactly strike fear into my heart.
What scares me more is the fact that people that DUMB actually exist!
Best of Luck,
Dave Liberation
dave lib
Howdy. Dave Liberation here. Just wanted to respond a little more to
those mysterious thoughts that float into the tiny head of Mark from
Blink. Marky boy, did it ever occur to you that running a label is not
the easiest thing in the world to do? Your last post was quite a slap in
the face to alot of people who AREN'T in a band and still contribute to
the scene.
To clear it up for you (since I apparently have to spell EVERYTHING out
for you to understand), I've been involved in the punk scene (buying
zines, records, goin to shows, etc) since 1992,when i was in the 8th grade
(13 years old). I started my zine (INNOVATIVE PLAGIARISM) in May 1994 and
my label (LIBERATION) later that year after I found out that in DIY punk,
just about ANYONE can run a label if they have the heart. As you know, I
put out two releases in 1995: The PUNK SUCKS comp. and a CD by a then
totally unknown local band, HOME GROWN. I started the entire label
with less money than you make in ONE show these days. For you to call me
some rich business man is like me calling you someone who cares about the
DIY punk scene. You know, its FAR from the truth. You can try to demonize
me just cause I call your band on their shit, but the fact is that I'm
just a 17 year old punk kid who put out a comp. that alot of people
happened to buy. I lucked out, plain and simple. You're full of shit if
you say anything else.
Also, I'm very proud of you for figuring out that 18,000x$3= $54,000.
GOOD JOB! Thumbs up for Marko! First of all, thats before taxes. Second,
that money also went for paying $3,400 of the Home Grown recording, the
pressing of all of their CD's, tapes, LPs, posters, etc, and my legal fees
fighting them off after those guys tried to steal away the record in order
to sell it off to a major later on (so far,I've wasted about $8,000 on
lawyers alone.....speaking of law suits, BLINK isn't a stranger to those
are they?? Isn't your ex-manager Bill Silva sueing you guys now for going
back on your agreement??? Isn't your ex-booking agent TAHOE AGENCY also
sueing you for going back on your agreement with THEM too?? ...hmmmmm...
..hypocrites like you boggle my mind.) . Oh yeah, I've also used alot of
that money for paying DONUTS N GLORY's recording, putting out THEIR record
too, making their posters, stickers, etc.. All in all, the money that I've
actually made and spent on myself in the last YEAR AND A HALF is about
$20,000. BESIDES Mark, if you knew shit about shit then you'd know
for a business to make like $20,000 (in a year and a half) isn't SHIT in
the real world. Wanna try getting a clue?
I'd answer even more to your claims, but I gotta go count my money.
See Ya,
Dave Liberation
dave lib
"I think we have stayed true to ourselves...." Mark from Blink.
Sadly enough, it's an actual quote.
Later "dude",
Dave Lib.
dave lib
Hey Mark, a few more things to help you figure life out.......
I tried to keep Home Grown from stealing the record that I put out away
from me because what they were trying to do was fucked, not because I
liked that fact that they were on KROQ. Its a known fact that I tried to
get RID of the record, but found no buyers (PS. its still for
sale...interested, rich guy?). The reason why I challenged their lawsuit
was because I was not going to allow a band like that who I personally
helped go from the garage to headlining 700 seat venues to get away with
theft using several intimidation tactics from their lawyers. Like someone
said on an earlier post, they even stooped low enough to threaten taking
away my parents house if i didn't give them the record. They thought that
would make me fold. Actually though, it just pissed me off even more and
made me want keep them from winning even more. Soon enough, they gave up
and wanted to settle out of court. Thats just what happened.
Also, about my "shitty" royalty rates you mentioned, I wanted to clear
that up too. Unlike your label CARGO (ex-label, i should i say....i keep
forgetting that you guys are "moving on" to a Epicrap..or is it EMI?), I
don't take advertising and promotional costs from the band royalties. I
pay for all of that. Labels like Cargo, on paper, DO give $2 a CD. But
thats a) cause they charge alot more for their CD's than I do and b)
because they also chargeback the band for everything from ads in certain
zines to sending out promo CDs, to tour support. By the time you see a
check from labels like that, the royalty rate is drastically lower than
what it looks like at face value. I take care of all the promotion for my
bands. I send promo's EVERYWHERE. I send so many promo's in fact, that
a few slip through the cracks and end up in the hands of people who we
don't even like (that explains why you got a DONUTS N GLORY cd). Not only
that, but I pay for stuff that has nothing to do with the CD like stickers
and posters out of my own pocket. I even risk LOSING money on shows just
to get the bands on my label an oppurtunity to play in front of an
audience. Furthermore, unlike your label, we don't expect bands to sign
bullshit 4 album deals with options and shit like that. I was fair enough
to do only a ONE record deal with them. They, unlike your band, are now
free to go where-ever they want. How "shitty" of me.......
You also mentioned a benifit that you played "for me" over a year ago.
Again, stop revising history. You make it sound as though you played the
show to help ME or for the charity or something. The truth is that your
booking agent begged us to let you on the PUNK SUCKS CD release party
because it was gonna be a really big show and they thought it would be
good promotion for you guys. It just HAPPENED to be a benefit for AIDS
research. Your band was totally unknown at the time and your band hardly
drew anyone to the show. The only reason you even played was for the
exposure. Even considering that and the fact that it was a BENEFIT show
where ALL of the money went to the charity, your booking agent demanded
that you guys get "at least $100". Most of the bands who
played (like FYP, NAKED AGRESSION, HOME GROWN, HE's DEAD JIM) got nothing
or alot less than what you did so that more money could be raised. So
stop shitting everyone. You playing that show because you knew it was
gonna be big. In fact, when we tried to get you guys to play other shows
once you got a little more popular, you were always "too busy".
By the way why did you all of the sudden, a year and 3 months later, get
the urge to cite a show you played on the internet?? Could it be that
you are just trying to get some credability and get people to write off
all of the bullshit that your band is about?? Hmmmmm....2+2=??
Anyway, Mark. I hope all of this has taught you a lesson. Stop trying to
lie your way into gaining acceptance and credability from the punk scene
even though you care nothing for it. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do us all a big
favor and get help. Heck, we'll even throw another benefit show just to
help you out. Wanna play it? (heehee)
Love,
"Mr. negativity"
Dave Liberation.
Mark Allan Hoppus
Well Mr DumbKid, again with the name calling, personal attacks,
not sticking to the issues, and misinformation. But I'll try and
respond....
Isn't your ex-manager Bill Silva sueing you guys now for going
>back on your agreement??? Isn't your ex-booking agent TAHOE AGENCY
also
>sueing you for going back on your agreement with THEM too??
...hmmmmm...
Yeah bro, you've pretty much got your shit together here. There
is NO lawsuit between us and Bill Silva, and we are still booked
through the Tahoe Agency, as we always have been, so obviously there is
no lawsuit there. I wonder though, where you got your information.
All in all, the money that I've
>actually made and spent on myself in the last YEAR AND A HALF is about
>$20,000. BESIDES Mark, if you knew shit about shit then you'd know
>for a business to make like $20,000 (in a year and a half) isn't SHIT
in
>the real world.
In the real world? Are we dealing with the real world now, or Dave's
Version of Punk World? In the real world you still have made more
money than me or anyone in my band, who are "sellouts" and supposedly
make outrageous amounts of money from every show we play.
Also, you STILL haven't answered the question that I began with, which
is why do you still use the bands that you write off, or if you
honestly belive what you write, "call on their shit?" AND does it make
sense to anyone else why, if Dave TRULY wanted Homegrown off of his
label, he would FORCE them to stay on it, even though HE wanted them
off and THEY wanted off? Did Dave try to keep a KROQ band on his
label, going against all the shit that he spouts about bands selling
out, even after he had made back his investment, just to try and teach
them a lesson?! Does that make sense to anyone else?
mark
Ben Brucato
Actually it's owned by Jim Guirnot/Time Bomb Records and operated
by two members of The Vandals. I'd say that's definitely major
label affiliation.
Ben Brucato
Tim, you couldn't be more correct! But that just goes to show
you how narrow the scope of rockstars like Mark/Blink can be.
Because everything's been handed to them (mainly by bigtime
corporate rock managers that they hire) they have no clue what
it's like for people like us who bust our fucking asses.
They'll never experience what it's like to go to press an album
and have it delayed at the pressing plant and consequently piss
off customers who ordered stuff months ago and lose orders from
distros who are sick of waiting. They'll never understand what
it's like to make the choice between eating two healthy meals a
day and not running an ad in MRR for your releases or running the
ad and eating shitty food just to keep your stomach filled. Ect.
ect. fucking etc. It goes on.
liq...@ix.netcom.com (bug) writes:
> On 20 Oct 1996 04:42:35 GMT, Mark from Blink wrote:
>
> >Not bad for someone who did nothing creative at
> >all (wrote no songs, played no instruments). You basically made
> >$54,000 on other peoples' talent.
>
Mark Allan Hoppus
>About Unwritten Law wanting to beat me up or whatever, that just shows
the
>type of complete idiots we're dealing with here. By the way, a buncha
>stoner jockboys-gone-punk who wanna get rich off of this music even if
it
>means selling out to Epic/Sony don't exactly strike fear into my
heart.
>What scares me more is the fact that people that DUMB actually exist!
Hey Dave, if you honestly felt this way about UL, why did you put them
on Punk Sucks?? They were already "selling out" when you put the comp
out.....
mark
Mark Allan Hoppus
Dave, give me a break. Quit trying to make yourself out to be
suck a fucking hero. Also, you claim that all of my information is
First of all, Cargo wholesales our CD for only 50 cents more than
you do yours. Is that "a lot more?" Also, Cargo has NEVER charged us
for the ads that they took out, posters, promos for reviews, or
stickers that they made. So again, your information is totally wrong.
Also, they took out ads in every single zine that we ever asked them
to. WITHOUT EXCEPTION. They have sent thousands of promos around the
world and never charged us a dime for them... You are so quick to
point the finger, saying that I have no idea what I'm talking about,
but again, your information is fucked. I'm interested where you got
this information?...
SOOO AGAIN, why did you give Homegrown such a shitty royalty rate?
You claim that your label is so rad and ours is fucked, but we get
evrything that you give your bands AND still get a decent royalty. Why
is that? This is the THIRD TIME that I have put the question to you,
and you still avoid it......
>You also mentioned a benifit that you played "for me" over a year ago.
>Again, stop revising history. You make it sound as though you played
the
>show to help ME or for the charity or something. The truth is that
your
>booking agent begged us to let you on the PUNK SUCKS CD release party
Even considering that and the fact that it was a BENEFIT show
>where ALL of the money went to the charity, your booking agent
demanded
>that you guys get "at least $100".
Again, here, you make no sense. So, let me get this straight.
Our booking agent BEGGED you to get us on this show, and then DEMANDS
that you give us $100?! In any case, why did you put us on it if you
hate us so much? Why not just say no? But then you go on to
contradict yourself....
>In fact, when we tried to get you guys to play other shows
>once you got a little more popular, you were always "too busy".
You're right, Dave. We weren't too busy. Last year we only did
three complete tours of the US and Canada, two full tours of Austraila,
went to Alaska twice, played Hawaii twice, did three west coast tours,
a tour of eastern Canada, went to Japan, did countless four day tours,
and recorded songs for two 7"'s. Give me a break.
And here is where the contradiction lies--Let's get this story
straight. You DIDN'T want us to play the punk sucks benefit, but our
booking agent FORCED you into it. Then, later, when we were getting
bigger, and selling out, you WANTED us to do your shows, and you were
bummed because we were doing something else? Does this make sense to
anyone, or does this go back to the Dave Liberation method of using
bands for their names while writing them off in your zines? Which
leads to the other question that you continually evade..
Okay, Dave, this is the THIRD TIME I'm asking you this, and I'll
try to put it as simple as I possibly can: Why do you use the names of
bands in the ads for punk sucks, while writing them off in your zines,
on the internet, etc.? I've been asking you that since the beginning
and you never answer it. If you honestly believe these bands suck and
are sellouts, why use their names to further your comp? That's it.
Call me a sellout, moron, liar, write me off, whatever. You still
haven't answered the questions that I put to you in the first place.
Do that and I promise that I'll leave you alone...
mark
giovanni
shitty corporate band + shitty corporate label = NOBODY CARES
Ben Brucato
blin...@ix.netcom.com(Mark Allan Hoppus ) writes:
> Also, you STILL haven't answered the question that I began with, which
> is why do you still use the bands that you write off, or if you
> honestly belive what you write, "call on their shit?" AND does it make
> sense to anyone else why, if Dave TRULY wanted Homegrown off of his
> label, he would FORCE them to stay on it, even though HE wanted them
> off and THEY wanted off? Did Dave try to keep a KROQ band on his
> label, going against all the shit that he spouts about bands selling
> out, even after he had made back his investment, just to try and teach
> them a lesson?! Does that make sense to anyone else?
>
>
> mark
Here's how I see it. He wants them off his label, but the only
way he's been confronted with so far is a way in which he
loses out BIGTIME and the band makes off like bandits. If he
were confronted with a deal that makes it so THIS SHITTY BAND
THAT NO ONE KNEW AT ONE TIME (UNTIL DAVE HELPED OUT) WHO THEN
DICKED HIM OVER ONCE THEY STARTED GETTING BIG AND SUED HIM
AND HIS PARENTS made it so he got a good deal and didn't get
totally fucked, I'm pretty sure he would bid their asses a
fond farewell. Why should he lose out when he's the one who
got stabbed in the back? Why should *ANY* band (including
ones on your own/his own/anyone's own label) have immunity
from valid criticism? I see it like this: if any band acts
like blatant rockstars, it doesn't matter who the fuck
it is, then they should be exposed for the corrupt assholes
they are.
-Ben Interbang
Dave Quinn
YEAH!!!!
I'm going to drive over in the tiltwheel van tim "bought" for us and
give him a big hug and a "thank you" smooch right on his culo for
everything he's done. and i'm going to wipe the shit stains off my lips
with an Everready shirt and use his phones to call len soma and buy
some tweak and when i get it i'm going to chop the rocks on my "punk
sucks" cd because i don't have a mirror around here. Let me tell you
somethin boy, i know for a fact that tim has talent, he can suck the
rust off of your bass strings blinky boy!
Dave "wishing liquid meat would put out a Furious IV record and show
the world how to rockandfuckinroll for real, or at least come see
Sheephead this monday at the velvet with me" quinn
>liq...@ix.netcom.com (bug) writes:
>>
>> Mark -
>>
>> If you knew all the work that goes into running a small label - if
you
>> understood what it is to LOSE money for years and years so that your
>> friends' bands could get their records out, all of the time, time,
>> time, the money that you end up spending on things like shirts and
>> vans and stickers and phone calls for the band that never get
written
>> down, money that you don't spend on unimportant things like food,
just
>> everything that goes into it - then you would know how much a
>> statement like the one you made can hurt.
>>
>> Tim
>> Liquid Meat Records
>
--
___________________________________________________________________
"Gimme gimme gimme some Motorhead" - PuzzleBox
qu...@ix.netcom.com
C.E.O. of Tiltwheel Brothers Gun Shows Ltd.
http://www.tumyeto.com/tydu/music/bands/bands.htm
___________________________________________________________________
tang
One MINOR detail mark from blink consistantly ignores....
Liberation has been around for a little over a year and has three releases
so far. Up until about a week or so ago, it was all ONE person-me (now
its me and my friend), WHILE I went to school full-time, by the way. It's
also been outta my bedroom the whole time. It started with a loan for
$2000 from my "daddy".
Cargo on the otherhand is a huge corporation. They have an office and
have quite a few employees. They've been around for many years and have
an entire catalog of releases (most of em shitty, if i may add).
Mark from Blink KNOWS this. So why then does Mark keep trying to compare
ME with them?? Could he be full of shit? Again?
Dave Liberation.
tang
Sorry....I forgot to mention a couple other points.....
Mark Blink mentioned that Cargo sells their CDs for "only" 50 cents more
than me. Considering that thats the amount of money which he claims I am
shorting my bands, that "only 50 cents" figure gains some
significance...dontcha think??
Also, Mark wants us all to think that Blink is poor. Yet he ALSO gives the
impression that Cargo gives them $2 a CD and charges nothing back to the
band. He admits that Blink has sold over 50,000 copies of their album.
Lemme see here....$50,000x$2=$100,000????> What about money for shows
you make?? I have had phone conversations with your booking agent (to
Marks advantage, the last one being well over 8 months ago so I don't
have the "updated" higher guarantees..) where they said you will not play
a show "south of santa barbara" for less than $2000. You've played a LOT
of shows around here......that means a LOT of money. Oh yeah, you've also
admitted that you make shitloads MORE on hats, shirts, and other
merchandising. PULEESE, dude....if you wanna LIE, at least get your story
straight. Either Cargo pays you well and you're rich or they Don't pay
you well and you're poor....You can't have it both ways where Cargo pays
you awesome yet you are still a poor little band. Has mark been caught
lying?>? Again??
Love,
Dave Liberation
tang
>
> >About Unwritten Law wanting to beat me up or whatever, that just shows
> the
> >type of complete idiots we're dealing with here. By the way, a buncha
> >stoner jockboys-gone-punk who wanna get rich off of this music even if
> it
> >means selling out to Epic/Sony don't exactly strike fear into my
> heart.
> >What scares me more is the fact that people that DUMB actually exist!
>
> on Punk Sucks?? They were already "selling out" when you put the comp
> out.....
>
> mark
Actually, Mark, UL was on an indie label when i put them on punk sucks.
Later, they went to Epic/Sony and thats when I began to have a problem
with them. I didn't know they were jock-boys at the time either.
Thanks for the inquiry, though, bud.
Dave Liberation
On 22 Oct 1996, Mark Allan Hoppus wrote:
>
>
>
> >About Unwritten Law wanting to beat me up or whatever, that just shows
> the
> >type of complete idiots we're dealing with here. By the way, a buncha
> >stoner jockboys-gone-punk who wanna get rich off of this music even if
> it
> >means selling out to Epic/Sony don't exactly strike fear into my
> heart.
> >What scares me more is the fact that people that DUMB actually exist!
>
tang
Also, to answer Marks stupid question, which he "asked three times" and
which i INTENTIONALLY IGNORED three times, here's why I use the name's of
the bands on PUNK SUCKS on the ads. wanna guess>??? could it be because
that they are ON the fucking comp. and hence should be listed in the ads
to tell people what bands are on it???
The reason that I talk shit about some (most) of them now is because
they've changed and/or they've done stuff since the comp. came out that i
disagree with personally. Your band included, by the way. When you (and
Unwritten Law) were put on PUNK SUCKS, you were not the same bands you are
now. At the time, your band had never even played outside of Southern
California and didn't even have a record out. Now you are licensed to a
major label and demand bullshit show guarantees. That's why I voice my
dislike for your actions. I never took it to a personal level until Mark
did. And, boy am i glad he did. Cause that gave me a great excuse to
call him the idiotic piece of fecal matter that i think he is.
Do you, mark, not know how to make ONE good point?>
Get a clue. Again.
Love,
Dave Liberation
ml...@nmsua.nmsu.edu
In article <mcaputo-2210...@pm2-21.ior.com> mca...@on-ramp.ior.com (giovanni) writes:
>From: mca...@on-ramp.ior.com (giovanni)
>Subject: Re: More intrigueing thought from Mark Blink
>Date: 22 Oct 1996 08:04:49 GMT
>shitty corporate band + shitty corporate label = NOBODY CARES
your lame. Its music. If you like you like it if not you don't. Got it.
Its people like you who screw everything up.
ml...@nmsua.nmsu.edu
In article <54hgfv$2...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> blin...@ix.netcom.com(Mark Allan Hoppus ) writes:
>From: blin...@ix.netcom.com(Mark Allan Hoppus )
>Subject: Re: Pearl Jam, Blink-182..you know, the usual "punk"
>Date: 22 Oct 1996 03:53:35 GMT
>
>>About Unwritten Law wanting to beat me up or whatever, that just shows
>the
>>type of complete idiots we're dealing with here. By the way, a buncha
>>stoner jockboys-gone-punk who wanna get rich off of this music even if
>it
>>means selling out to Epic/Sony don't exactly strike fear into my
>heart.
>>What scares me more is the fact that people that DUMB actually exist!
>Hey Dave, if you honestly felt this way about UL, why did you put them
>on Punk Sucks?? They were already "selling out" when you put the comp
>out.....
>mark
We played a show with 30 ft fall about 7 months ago. They suck.
ml...@nmsua.nmsu.edu
In article <Pine.GSO.3.95.96102...@rigel.oac.uci.edu> dave lib <dum...@uci.edu> writes:
>From: dave lib <dum...@uci.edu>
>Subject: Re: Pearl Jam, Blink-182..you know, the usual "punk"
>++++MARK BLINK CONTINUES HIS WRITTEN SELF-ABUSE++++
>First of all "MARK ALLAN HOPPUS",
>The information that you got about the issues of Home Grown and Unwritten
>Law are totally bioused and one-sided (not to mention false). You try to
>act like you know whats going on, but the sad truth is you're just ANOTHER
>babbling fool who DOESN'T. As evident from your claims, you have no idea
>what you're talking about.
>Heck, you said it yourself, the fine folks at Epitaph think I'm a bad guy,
>right? But even ask THEM when I began working there! You just refuse to
>admit that you're totally and completely wrong. Why don't you go do some
>research before you fabricate information about people who don't like you.
>Who knows, maybe then, SOMEONE might actually believe you.
>About Unwritten Law wanting to beat me up or whatever, that just shows the
>type of complete idiots we're dealing with here. By the way, a buncha
>stoner jockboys-gone-punk who wanna get rich off of this music even if it
>means selling out to Epic/Sony don't exactly strike fear into my heart.
>What scares me more is the fact that people that DUMB actually exist!
>Best of Luck,
>Dave Liberation
>
>> and a half of work. Not bad for someone who did nothing creative at
>> all (wrote no songs, played no instruments). You basically made
I just wanted to say I think Blink is great, Unwritten sucks, and Gina at
Epitaph will kick all your asses.
Oh and mark check your mail.
matt
ml...@nmsua.nmsu.edu
In article <54he1c$p...@cletus.bright.net> Ben Brucato <bru...@brutus.bright.net> writes:
>From: Ben Brucato <bru...@brutus.bright.net>
>Subject: Re: Pearl Jam, Blink-182..you know, the usual "punk"
>Tim, you couldn't be more correct! But that just goes to show
>you how narrow the scope of rockstars like Mark/Blink can be.
>Because everything's been handed to them (mainly by bigtime
>corporate rock managers that they hire) they have no clue what
>it's like for people like us who bust our fucking asses.
>They'll never experience what it's like to go to press an album
>and have it delayed at the pressing plant and consequently piss
>off customers who ordered stuff months ago and lose orders from
>distros who are sick of waiting. They'll never understand what
>it's like to make the choice between eating two healthy meals a
>day and not running an ad in MRR for your releases or running the
>ad and eating shitty food just to keep your stomach filled. Ect.
>ect. fucking etc. It goes on.
>liq...@ix.netcom.com (bug) writes:
>> On 20 Oct 1996 04:42:35 GMT, Mark from Blink wrote:
>>
>> >Not bad for someone who did nothing creative at
>> >all (wrote no songs, played no instruments). You basically made
>> >$54,000 on other peoples' talent.
>>
>> Mark -
>>
>> If you knew all the work that goes into running a small label - if you
>> understood what it is to LOSE money for years and years so that your
>> friends' bands could get their records out, all of the time, time,
>> time, the money that you end up spending on things like shirts and
>> vans and stickers and phone calls for the band that never get written
>> down, money that you don't spend on unimportant things like food, just
>> everything that goes into it - then you would know how much a
>> statement like the one you made can hurt.
>>
>> Tim
>> Liquid Meat Records
I don't mean to put anyone down, but if it wasn't for those 'bastards'
working 15 hours a day just to get the mailorder out all of you bands
wouldn't be anywhere but in your garage playing to the neighborhood kids.
Its all about the labels.
matt
ml...@nmsua.nmsu.edu
You guys are mean. mean.
"Drifting out to sea, flowing with the tide,
I can see you through the waves there's nowhere
to hide!!!" --matt Enright "function"
In article <54jauo$6...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> qu...@ix.netcom.com(Dave Quinn) writes:
>From: qu...@ix.netcom.com(Dave Quinn)
>Subject: Re: Pearl Jam, Blink-182..you know, the usual "punk"
>Date: 22 Oct 1996 20:31:20 GMT
>YEAH!!!!
>I'm going to drive over in the tiltwheel van tim "bought" for us and
>give him a big hug and a "thank you" smooch right on his culo for
>everything he's done. and i'm going to wipe the shit stains off my lips
>with an Everready shirt and use his phones to call len soma and buy
>some tweak and when i get it i'm going to chop the rocks on my "punk
>sucks" cd because i don't have a mirror around here. Let me tell you
>somethin boy, i know for a fact that tim has talent, he can suck the
>rust off of your bass strings blinky boy!
>Dave "wishing liquid meat would put out a Furious IV record and show
>the world how to rockandfuckinroll for real, or at least come see
>Sheephead this monday at the velvet with me" quinn
>>liq...@ix.netcom.com (bug) writes:
>>>
>>> Mark -
>>>
>>> If you knew all the work that goes into running a small label - if
>you
>>> understood what it is to LOSE money for years and years so that your
>>> friends' bands could get their records out, all of the time, time,
>>> time, the money that you end up spending on things like shirts and
>>> vans and stickers and phone calls for the band that never get
>written
>>> down, money that you don't spend on unimportant things like food,
>just
>>> everything that goes into it - then you would know how much a
>>> statement like the one you made can hurt.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> Liquid Meat Records
>>
>--
bug
On Tue, 22 Oct 1996 19:48:11 -0700, tang <dum...@uci.edu> wrote:
>Cargo on the otherhand is a huge corporation. They have an office and
>have quite a few employees. They've been around for many years and have
>an entire catalog of releases (most of em shitty, if i may add).
Actually, quite a few of the bands on Cargo are really good, they just
may not appeal to the usual punk crowd. Rocket From The Crypt, Fluf,
and Garden Variety come to mind - also, I think Boys Life might be on
Cargo now.
The fact Cargo's been around for a long time is probably something
that should be respected, considering they only recently started the
major distro deal. I, personally wouldn't involve Cargo in this
dispute at all. If you know the employees over there, you know they're
good people trying to do what they can for their bands. Also, they are
as punk as anyone in regard to helping any kid who's starting a label,
when we started Liquid Meat (around 4 years ago) the people at Cargo
were incredibly nice - they gave us contacts at distributors (tons,
not just their own), radio, press, production, etc. Also, their
graphic artist has done most of our album covers for us for free, just
to help out. I really can't say enough good things about the people
there.
Just a side note.
Tim
Liquid Meat
Ben Brucato
tang <dum...@uci.edu> writes:
> Either Cargo pays you well and you're rich or they Don't pay
> you well and you're poor....You can't have it both ways where Cargo pays
> you awesome yet you are still a poor little band. Has mark been caught
> lying?>? Again??
>
> Love,
> Dave Liberation
>
>
yep! but that's okay, cuz he can fuck like and animal!
whoppee!
Ben Interbang
tang
On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 ml...@nmsua.nmsu.edu wrote:
> I just wanted to say I think Blink is great, Unwritten sucks, and Gina at
> Epitaph will kick all your asses.
> matt
why is GINA cool to everyone except ME?
tang
Ben Brucato
This is really funny! Screw things up? Do you mean by exposing
reality?
Actually it's people with no standards or values who fuck things
up. Sound like you?
Sean M Seeling
In article <mlong.46...@nmsua.nmsu.edu>, ml...@nmsua.nmsu.edu
wrote:
>In article <mcaputo-2210...@pm2-21.ior.com>
mca...@on-ramp.ior.com (giovanni) writes:
>>From: mca...@on-ramp.ior.com (giovanni)
>>Subject: Re: More intrigueing thought from Mark Blink
>>Date: 22 Oct 1996 08:04:49 GMT
>
>>shitty corporate band + shitty corporate label = NOBODY CARES
>your lame. Its music. If you like you like it if not you don't. Got
it.
>Its people like you who screw everything up.
yeah, and your opinion doesn't belong here anyways.
*** DePaul Online - A Service Provided by:
*** The Information Technology division of
*** DePaul University
giovanni
> In article <mcaputo-2210...@pm2-21.ior.com>
mca...@on-ramp.ior.com (giovanni) writes:
> >From: mca...@on-ramp.ior.com (giovanni)
> >Subject: Re: More intrigueing thought from Mark Blink
> >Date: 22 Oct 1996 08:04:49 GMT
>
> >shitty corporate band + shitty corporate label = NOBODY CARES
> your lame. Its music. If you like you like it if not you don't. Got it.
> Its people like you who screw everything up.
oh cool, i screw everything up, punk is dead and i killed it, wah wah
Dave Quinn
In <mlong.49...@nmsua.nmsu.edu> ml...@nmsua.nmsu.edu writes:
>
>You guys are mean. mean.
>
>"Drifting out to sea, flowing with the tide,
>I can see you through the waves there's nowhere
>to hide!!!" --matt Enright "function"
I remember playing that Function 7" for Tim Liquid Meat AND Tom Blink
and they both thought it sucked so i stole it from our radio station.
Brian Everready hates Groundwork. Molly thinks the Confederats are
keen. Molly has the best taste in music of anyone i namedropped in this
whole entire pointless post with the run-on-sentence at the end of it.
Marc Guay
> I don't mean to put anyone down, but if it wasn't for those 'bastards'
> working 15 hours a day just to get the mailorder out all of you bands
> wouldn't be anywhere but in your garage playing to the neighborhood kids.
> Its all about the labels.
>
> matt
and without the bands, for what reason would labels exist? it's an equally divided amount of giveandtake. this whole argument really pisses me off, what ever happened to unity?
--
marc guay / tin...@astral.magic.ca
bug
On 27 Oct 1996 11:44:09 GMT, qu...@ix.netcom.com(Dave Quinn) wrote:
>I remember playing that Function 7" for Tim Liquid Meat AND Tom Blink
>and they both thought it sucked so i stole it from our radio station.
>Brian Everready hates Groundwork. Molly thinks the Confederats are
>keen. Molly has the best taste in music of anyone i namedropped in this
>whole entire pointless post with the run-on-sentence at the end of it.
Who the hell is Funk-tion anyways, I thought it was a slap-bass
ensemble.
Oh yeah, Mollie likes Tiltwheel too, how smart can she be?
timliquidmeat
HEMLOCK CD OUT VERY SOON!