The Book renewal project (new thread)
Keith Keller
Hash: SHA1
I'm moving this to a new thread, so that it doesn't get lost in
+Chiron+'s pot. :)
In article <f26edd4a.02122...@posting.google.com>, Morgan Landry wrote:
>
> So far, the current list looks like this:
>
> 1:
> 2:+Chiron+
> 3:
> 4:Alan Hicks
> 5:
> 6:Morgan Landry
> 7:Alan Hicks
> 8:Alan Hicks
> 9:
> 10:
> 11:Alan Hicks
> 12:
> 13:
> 14:+Chiron+
> 15:Alan Hicks
> 16:+Chiron+
> 17:
> Other:
Brian said he would look at chapters 3 and 5. I think it would be
good to get a lot of eyes on 3: Installation, since that's most of
what Slackware's about, right?
> I'm wondering if Chapter 1 needs to be updated at all.
Well, not updated, per se, but edited a little. The part about
"free speech, not free beer" should be rephrased as "free as in
speech, not as in beer". I think leaving out the "as in" clause
is ambiguous.
In addition, if we're talking about licenses, I think the BSD license
should get some dead-tree time, since it also covers many software
packages.
Other than those changes, though, I think Chapter 1 is fine as-is.
Before I volunteer to look at a chapter, I'm wondering: what's the
goal? Is it to read over and do minor updates, to add or subtract
items that the author believes are appropriate, or to do a complete
rewrite? (Or a combination?) (Though in some cases, some major
changes may need to be made anyway, like chapter 13, which talks
about talk/ytalk and finger, but not about things like IRC, which
seems more prevalent than the first two.)
If the goals exclude the third, I'll do chapter 12 (system admin).
Alan, I bet you could persuade others to take more chapters from
you, too. :) And I nominate /dev/rob0 for chapter 17.
Oh, and someone needs to write Chapter 666: Slackware is Dead, Long
Live Gentoo!
- --keith
- --
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
public key: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/kkeller/kkeller.asc
alt.os.linux.slackware FAQ: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/perl/fom
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Keith Keller
Hash: SHA1
In article <q11bua...@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>, Keith Keller wrote:
> If the goals exclude the third, I'll do chapter 12 (system admin).
Well, check out:
http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/linux/slackbook/c2773.html
It's the first section on users and groups. Please post (or email)
any feedback.
- --keith
- --
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
public key: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/kkeller/kkeller.asc
alt.os.linux.slackware FAQ: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/perl/fom
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/dev/rob0
>> So far, the current list looks like this:
I'm going to add the chapter names.
>> 1: Introduction
>> 2:+Chiron+ Help
>> 3: Installation
>> 4:Alan Hicks System Configuration
>> 5: Network Configuration
>> 6:Morgan Landry The X Window System
>> 7:Alan Hicks Booting
>> 8:Alan Hicks The Shell
>> 9: Filesystem Structure
>> 10: Handling Files and Directories
>> 11:Alan Hicks Process Control
>> 12: Essential System Administration
>> 13: Basic Network Commands
>> 14:+Chiron+ Archive Files
>> 15:Alan Hicks vi
>> 16:+Chiron+ Slackware Package Management
>> 17: ZipSlack and BigSlack
>> Other: Printing (should be between Chap. 6-7)
> Security (should be between Chap. 12-13)
> Brian said he would look at chapters 3 and 5. I think it would be
> good to get a lot of eyes on 3: Installation, since that's most of
> what Slackware's about, right?
Hahaha. Well, it's one of the most frequent problem areas, since people
often come in with no experience nor idea about how to proceed. I could
help on 3 and 5 too.
> Before I volunteer to look at a chapter, I'm wondering: what's the
> goal? Is it to read over and do minor updates, to add or subtract
> items that the author believes are appropriate, or to do a complete
> rewrite? (Or a combination?) (Though in some cases, some major
I hope we'll focus on updating and correcting, without doing much to the
basic character of The Book. But in some cases radical changes might be
needed.
Note also that we probably need some new sections. Certainly printing
was omitted from the original. Since nominations are in order, I'll call
upon mRgOBLIN to take that one. A security/securing section would be
good to have as well. Dentonj and/or mRg? +Chiron+? I'll assist on that
one too, but I wouldn't want to be the lead.
> changes may need to be made anyway, like chapter 13, which talks
> about talk/ytalk and finger, but not about things like IRC, which
> seems more prevalent than the first two.)
I use ytalk and finger, but not IRC. :P :)
> Alan, I bet you could persuade others to take more chapters from
I could do or assist on 7.
> you, too. :) And I nominate /dev/rob0 for chapter 17.
Okay, but Richard Williams should be involved as well. I think he has
more real-world ZipSlack experience than I do anyway. That's why I
didn't put myself in the list above for this.
> Oh, and someone needs to write Chapter 666: Slackware is Dead, Long
> Live Gentoo!
Someone whose head, when squeezed, might yield excrement?
...
Someone (who's our project lead, Alan?) needs to contact David, Logan
and Chris about this. After all, it's *their* licensed work, not Pat's.
Has this been done yet?
They'll of course have final say on anything we do being included in the
next official edition. Since it's GNU/GPL we can do a fork if they
disagree. For that matter we could have a separate fork for each
contributor!! ;)
--
/dev/rob0 - preferred_email=i$((28*28+28))@softhome.net
or put "not-spam" or "/dev/rob0" in Subject header to reply
LittleJohn
> <snip>
>
> http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/linux/slackbook/c2773.html
>
> It's the first section on users and groups. Please post (or email)
> any feedback.
Keith: The very first sentence is extremely poor English. How about
"You are the administrator of any computers where you login as root."?
Ending the sentence with "on" is the problem.
LittleJohn
Madison, Alabama
Faux_Pseudo
Hash: SHA1
_.--- Keith Keller spoke in alt.os.linux.slackware --------._
> In article <f26edd4a.02122...@posting.google.com>, Morgan Landry wrote:
>>
Prolog : Book of Bozo 1: Richard James
Book of Bozo 2: Faux_Pseudo
>> 1:
>> 2:+Chiron+
>> 3:
>> 4:Alan Hicks
>> 5:
>> 6:Morgan Landry
>> 7:Alan Hicks
>> 8:Alan Hicks
>> 9:
>> 10:
>> 11:Alan Hicks
>> 12:
>> 13:
>> 14:+Chiron+
>> 15:Alan Hicks
>> 16:+Chiron+
>> 17:
>> Other:
I would love to get involved but I would need someone to proof read
any chapter I did.
'---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~
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--
ICQ=66618055 : (Now Playing) http://asciipr0n.com/fp updated=10/30
YIM=faux_pseudo : Rev: /aerosmith/young_lust/02_-_My_Fist_Your_Face.mp3
All limits are : Now: /aerosmith/big_ones/aerosmith_-_07_-_cryin'.mp3
self imposed : Fwd: /the_best_of_1990_2000/04_-_electrical_storm.mp3
Faux_Pseudo
Hash: SHA1
_.--- /dev/rob0 spoke in alt.os.linux.slackware --------._
>>> 12: Essential System Administration
I was just looking at this one. It needs some major work. First of
all the shut down section makes no referances to journaling file
systems. Secondly shouldn't disk quotas be touched on in the user
creation portion? And finally in an attempt to get people to avoid
root shouldn't /etc/mail/aliases be touched on as well in this section
As for section 13 nntp isn't touched on at all. And and pine and elm
are touched on but mutt isn't mentioned at all.
'---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~
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--
ICQ=66618055 : (Now Playing) http://asciipr0n.com/fp updated=10/30
YIM=faux_pseudo : Rev: /u2/best_of_1980_1990/10_u2_-_sweetest_thing.mp3
I am the hate you: Now: /aerosmith/nine_lives/05_-_full_circle.mp3
try to hide : Fwd: h-_ultimate_arosmith/same_old_song_and_dance.mp3
+Chiron+
Hash: SHA1
LittleJohn tempted the fates in alt.os.linux.slackware
by proclaiming the following to be true:
> Keith Keller wrote:
>
> Keith: The very first sentence is extremely poor English.
I don't know about *extremely* poor english, per say.
(tosses a quick glance in the direction of FP. ;)
> How about
> "You are the administrator of any computers where you login as root."?
> Ending the sentence with "on" is the problem.
That still sound clunky.
How 'bout:
"You are the Administrator for any and all machines to which you posess
the 'root' password."
That sounds a bit better.
I shoulda been a Lawyer. ;)
- --
+Chiron+ "Happy Holidays!" ( BOFH excuse #20: divide-by-zero error
GnuPG Pub Key 848D1A2D -o) )
Linux Kernel 2.4.20 /\\ (
Slackware 8.1 *w00t* _\_v )
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+Chiron+
Hash: SHA1
Faux_Pseudo tempted the fates in alt.os.linux.slackware
by proclaiming the following to be true:
> I would love to get involved but I would need someone to proof read
> any chapter I did.
Morgan's an English Major.
She's already offered to do proof-reading
(and I trust her skills a fuckload more than any of ours. ;)
You should ping her to see if she'd be willing to work with/around/ you and
your dyslexia. =)
No Faux, I didn't mean *that* kind of "ping."
Put that back into your pants. ;)
- --
+Chiron+ "Happy Holidays!" ( All computers wait at the same speed.
GnuPG Pub Key 848D1A2D -o) )
Linux Kernel 2.4.20 /\\ (
Slackware 8.1 *w00t* _\_v )
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Faux_Pseudo
Hash: SHA1
_.--- +Chiron+ spoke in alt.os.linux.slackware --------._
>> Keith: The very first sentence is extremely poor English.
>
> I don't know about *extremely* poor english, per say.
> (tosses a quick glance in the direction of FP. ;)
Even I know you should never end a sentance on a prepasision.
> I shoulda been a Lawyer. ;)
Remember that Go-Go Dancer I mentioned? Guess what she does for a
living.
'---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~
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--
.-')) http://asciipr0n.com/fp ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
' ..- .:" ) New content ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
((,,_;'.;' 10 / 30 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
((_.;'*Faux_Pseudo*':._)) | - Andrew Jackson
+Chiron+
Hash: SHA1
Faux_Pseudo tempted the fates in alt.os.linux.slackware
by proclaiming the following to be true:
I mused:
>> I shoulda been a Lawyer. ;)
>
> Remember that Go-Go Dancer I mentioned? Guess what she does for a
> living.
Cool.
What's it like fuckin a lawyer instead of vice-versa? ;)
- --
+Chiron+ "Happy Holidays!" ( Nietzsche is dead. -God
GnuPG Pub Key 848D1A2D -o) )
Linux Kernel 2.4.20 /\\ (
Slackware 8.1 *w00t* _\_v )
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Faux_Pseudo
Hash: SHA1
_.--- +Chiron+ spoke in alt.os.linux.slackware --------._
>> Remember that Go-Go Dancer I mentioned? Guess what she does for a
>> living.
>
> Cool.
>
> What's it like fuckin a lawyer instead of vice-versa? ;)
On the advice of my attorney I am going to plead the 5th.
'---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~
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+Chiron+
Hash: SHA1
Faux_Pseudo tempted the fates in alt.os.linux.slackware
by proclaiming the following to be true:
> On the advice of my attorney I am going to plead the 5th.
'Specially when your attoney's got ya between her teeth.
Literally.
*wink*
- --
+Chiron+ "Happy Holidays!" ( I don't have an eating problem. I eat. I get
GnuPG Pub Key 848D1A2D -o) ) fat. I buy new clothes. No problem.
Linux Kernel 2.4.20 /\\ (
Slackware 8.1 *w00t* _\_v )
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Menno
[snip]
> Well, check out:
>
> http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/linux/slackbook/c2773.html
>
> It's the first section on users and groups. Please post (or email)
> any feedback.
Maybe add that you can check the userdb files using:
pwck(8) and grpck(8)?
Recreate /etc/shadow & /etc/gshadow using pwconv(8) and grpconv?
-Menno.
Thomas Ronayne
whatever needs done.
Bartosz Oudekerk
/dev/rob0 spewed forth the following rhetoric:
<snip>
>>> Other: Printing (should be between Chap. 6-7)
Might I suggest between Chap 5-6 ?
<snip>
--
Bartosz Oudekerk
ASCII stupid question, get stupid ANSI
Brad Clarke
wrote:
>>You should ping her to see if she'd be willing to work with/around/ you and
>>your dyslexia. =)
My wife is dyslexic, and I had to translate her handwritten medical
notes into readable English for her final project.
It's not that difficult, you just have to know the way that particular
person thinks and functions.
My wife and I can have "dyslexic" conversations that would make a lot of
non-dyslexic people think we were on something. Great fun at parties :)
Brad
Morgan Landry
> I would love to get involved but I would need someone to proof read
> any chapter I did.
>
Yeah, that's what I'm here for. Just post it or e-mail it to me.
Morgan Landry
M.E.L...@tcu.edu
Alan Hicks
> Hahaha. Well, it's one of the most frequent problem areas, since people
> often come in with no experience nor idea about how to proceed. I could
> help on 3 and 5 too.
From what I've seen, Chapter 3 is going to need some major reworking.
Though the installer has changed little in several years, the disksets
have changed. The new ISOLinux cd doesn't boot on old machines. I think
we need to include mention of 5 or 6 boot/root disks needed to isntall
8.1, and that the new disks for 9.0 will work with it. I also think
DOSlack deserves some attention here.
I'm more than willing to put my time into Chapter 3 as well.
>> Before I volunteer to look at a chapter, I'm wondering: what's the
>> goal? Is it to read over and do minor updates, to add or subtract
>> items that the author believes are appropriate, or to do a complete
>> rewrite? (Or a combination?) (Though in some cases, some major
It's my personal opinion (and we all know about opinions here!) that the
Book doens't need much changing. Overall the format/syntax seems fine.
Obviously minor errors and typos (such as the infamous ommission of `make
modules-install` from the kernel compilation instructions) need to be
corrected. Moreover, changes in the way programs included in Slackware
work need to be addressed.
I mentioned it in another thread, but XFree86 4.0 was a major re-write in
many ways. For example, SuperProbe is no longer included in Slackware.
> Note also that we probably need some new sections. Certainly printing
> was omitted from the original. Since nominations are in order, I'll call
> upon mRgOBLIN to take that one. A security/securing section would be
> good to have as well. Dentonj and/or mRg? +Chiron+? I'll assist on that
> one too, but I wouldn't want to be the lead.
A printing addition would be a wonderful contribution. I know a few
things about CUPS and APSFILTER, but certainly not enough to handle a
section of the Good Book on it. Another area that needs attention is USB
devices. The new kernels now allow USB devices to be used with
Slackware, which wasn't really even on the horizon when it was written.
A modest explaination of the /dev files, what they mean, and what devices
they relate too would also be welcomed (this is what I think /dev/rob0
should do!).
>> changes may need to be made anyway, like chapter 13, which talks about
>> talk/ytalk and finger, but not about things like IRC, which seems more
>> prevalent than the first two.)
Chapter 13 also mentions telnet as "the coolest thing he'd ever seen".
It makes a very brief mention of Secure Shell as a more secure
alternative to telnet. I think ssh deserves a little more spotlight than
that. Also, sftp should be mentioned in the FTP Clients.
> Someone (who's our project lead, Alan?) needs to contact David, Logan
> and Chris about this. After all, it's *their* licensed work, not Pat's.
> Has this been done yet?
Actually I have not contacted any of them. I have spoken very briefly
with Pat, but none of the other three. I'm assuming the contact
information for these three on the slackware site is still valid. I'll
be dropping them a line shortly. Since it was my idea, I assume I by
default am the project lead.
> They'll of course have final say on anything we do being included in the
> next official edition. Since it's GNU/GPL we can do a fork if they
> disagree.
We WILL fork it if they disagree, but I highly doubt they will. I get
the feeling that the Good Book, like OSS, is open for this very reason.
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Brian Juergensmeyer
Hash: SHA1
On Tuesday 24 December 2002 19:18, I heard the quiet voice of Keith Keller
telling me:
// snip
> Brian said he would look at chapters 3 and 5. I think it would be
> good to get a lot of eyes on 3: Installation, since that's most of
> what Slackware's about, right?
Greetings, all:
Assuming I'm the Brian being discussed here (I've not seen any other Brians
piping up for this yet), and just to make sure that I said what I think I
said, I'm willing to work on section 3 (Configuration) subsection 5
(Networking). I'd be willing to contribute some material to "Installation"
and give it a going over, but I personally don't thing that the
installation section is going to be that big of a deal. Yes, there have
been significant changes, but the changes are actually fairly easy to
define, and I expect that the modifications shouldn't be that difficult.
The fun stuff is going to be in updating the configuration sections for the
advent of USB, P-n-P, and some of the updated configuration programs.
Bri
- --
"Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set fire to him and he's warm
for the rest of his life." -- Terry Pratchett
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Keith Keller
Hash: SHA1
In article <slrnb0il16.is...@raven.home>, +Chiron+ wrote:
> LittleJohn tempted the fates in alt.os.linux.slackware
> by proclaiming the following to be true:
>
>> Keith: The very first sentence is extremely poor English.
>
> I don't know about *extremely* poor english, per say.
> (tosses a quick glance in the direction of FP. ;)
Ouch! That's a little harsh. :)
Anyway, it was poor grammar. I must have just missed it--had I seen that
sentence, I would have changed it.
> "You are the Administrator for any and all machines to which you posess
> the 'root' password."
I've changed the sentence to something resembling the above. Go ahead
and nitpick if you wish.
- --keith
- --
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
public key: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/kkeller/kkeller.asc
alt.os.linux.slackware FAQ: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/perl/fom
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Keith Keller
Hash: SHA1
In article <MzfO9.84$Pr3....@amsnews02.chello.com>, Menno wrote:
> Maybe add that you can check the userdb files using:
> pwck(8) and grpck(8)?
Hey, that's cool! I'll add a mention somewheres. (I had no clue
these tools existed, thanks.)
> Recreate /etc/shadow & /etc/gshadow using pwconv(8) and grpconv?
That topic I'd prefer not to touch. Users just starting out (and
if you're getting new information from this chapter, you qualify)
shouldn't be trying to convert to/from shadow passwords, and
experienced users who want to do so will be able to find the docs.
(Maybe they'll Google and find this thread!)
- --keith
- --
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
public key: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/kkeller/kkeller.asc
alt.os.linux.slackware FAQ: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/perl/fom
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Keith Keller
Hash: SHA1
In article <slrnb0igus.7...@fugozi.cx1209071-a>, Faux_Pseudo wrote:
>
> _.--- /dev/rob0 spoke in alt.os.linux.slackware --------._
>>>> 12: Essential System Administration
>
> I was just looking at this one. It needs some major work.
You think so? I picked it in part because I thought it would need
between minor and major work.
> First of
> all the shut down section makes no referances to journaling file
> systems.
I'll add something about ext3 and reiserfs, but probably not a whole
lot--just the idea of what a journalling FS does should be enough.
I worry that mentioning too much will make a new user complacent, thus
breeding bad shutdown habits--the concepts presented are sound no
matter what FS is in use.
> Secondly shouldn't disk quotas be touched on in the user
> creation portion?
I'm not so sure. Disk quotas are a fairly advanced topic for a new
sysadmin to tackle--there's not even a chapter on network daemons (I
think there should be something basic on this topic, but that's probably
another thread), which almost every sysadmin has to deal with, so why
should the Book cover quotas, which are frequently not used?
> And finally in an attempt to get people to avoid
> root shouldn't /etc/mail/aliases be touched on as well in this section
Eh? You mean forwarding root's mail to a mortal user? Hmm. Well, if
my wish about a network daemon chapter comes true, that'd be a better
place to mention it. If it doesn't, chapter 12 is probably a logical
choice for it.
I will add a few words about creating a normal user to avoid using/abusing
the root account. I've only skimmed some of the other chapters--is this
point mentioned elsewhere?
> As for section 13 nntp isn't touched on at all. And and pine and elm
> are touched on but mutt isn't mentioned at all.
It seems like many of us agree that 13 needs a fairly thorough rewrite.
Who'll volunteer? ;-)
- --keith
- --
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
public key: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/kkeller/kkeller.asc
alt.os.linux.slackware FAQ: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/perl/fom
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Jurgen Philippaerts
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On Wed, Dec 25, 2002 at 08:42:59PM -0800, Keith Keller wrote:
> It seems like many of us agree that 13 needs a fairly thorough rewrite.
> Who'll volunteer? ;-)
13, wasn't that my lucky number ? :)
i could have a go at it.
Jurgen.
- --
No one wants to hear my armpits.
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Bartosz Oudekerk
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On the dark and fateful day, Wed, 25 Dec 2002 at 22:49 GMT,
Morgan Landry spewed forth the following rhetoric:
> Morgan Landry
> M.E.Landry at tcu d()t edu
If you happen to share this 'lack of fondness' for spam with
me, you might want to mangle your e-mail addres like I just
did for you.[0]
[0] And yes, I know my english is crap so any corrections are
*always* welcomed.
- --
Bartosz Oudekerk
ASCII stupid question, get stupid ANSI
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/dev/rob0
> A modest explaination of the /dev files, what they mean, and what devices
> they relate too would also be welcomed (this is what I think /dev/rob0
> should do!).
Hahaha, who better to explain device nodes? :) I could do that. In fact
I probably already have done it in posts here, somewhat. It wouldn't be
a whole chapter, though. I'll look around to see where it should be
tacked on (or consider suggestions.)