Vix with Dicks.. Whats up with that?!
Raccoon
that is more puzzling to me than that of Vixens with Dicks-On.
Who came up with it, why did it start.. And why is it the most popular
topic of art in Furry today?
I personally find it disgusting, and it really turns me off.
I've been downloading binaries from fur.art.erotica for some time now,
and over 30% of it contained pictures of female vulps stroking, spewing
or fucking eachother.. beating the 25% of male fucking male. and the 16%
of male masturbation.
I just don't get it. If someone likes dick, and wishes to draw dick..
Where do the breasts come in? I thought that the whole idea of
homosexuality was based around titaphobia, the fear of tits.
Another striking conclusion that comes to mind, is that in no species of
animal are there females with dicks. So, this must be some form of
original fetish. Where did it come from? Why is it so big?
Personally, I'd like to see some more good 'natural' erotic art of high
quality put out there. But it seems that those who really know Photoshop
the best, are not straight. (Not to say I have any grudge with gays,
it's just that I know there are alot more straight people than gay, so
where are they?)
The only thing that I can think of is that those who draw really good
'straight' erotic art are either too embarrassed to post it, or those who
draw 'other' art are posting way to often.
Anyway, Vix with Dicks.. am I the only one disgusted here?
- Raccoon
alt [dot] raccoon [at] usa [dot] net
--
Random site: (Rocket Raccoon Comic Covers)
http://members.tripod.com/~raccoonsite/comics/rocketcovers.html
D. Jean Cooper
Raccoon, I'm afraid you've hit the wrong group. This is
alt.lifestyle.furry, *not* alt.fan.furry. Unless your post has something
that means something *to you* about -being- furry, then please take posts
like this back over to AFF. Or if you're deliberatly trying to start a
flaming, you've got a good start. We've just finished having
roastRichChandler and didn't enjoy the taste at all. Way too dry and
stringy. <G> Please read the FAQ and charter before you reply. Thanx.
-Walk in Balance
Ambergold Wolfeyes (a leeettle hair-trigger about art posts in the
lifestyle group)
SCA: Lady Aelfreda O'Llyn Ewig
--
D.Jean Cooper
dcooperatinavdotnet
Akai
> > Another striking conclusion that comes to mind, is that in no species of
> animal are there females with dicks. So, this must be some form of
> original fetish. Where did it come from? Why is it so big?
I do believe that female hyenas have pseudo-phallic appendages. Saw that
on a documentary on the Discovery Channel...the overall theme was the
eternal conflict between lions and hyenas. Hyenas are in general pretty
messed-up critters.
-Akai
"Behold the power of cheese!"
mtmoleda
: I do believe that female hyenas have pseudo-phallic appendages. Saw that
: on a documentary on the Discovery Channel...the overall theme was the
: eternal conflict between lions and hyenas. Hyenas are in general pretty
: messed-up critters.
"I think Akai called us messed-up critters. Did YOU hear Akai call us
messed-up critters?"
"You know, I think I did? Did YOU hear Akai call us messed-up critters?"
"I think I did!"
[they turn and look at the third one with strange, bulging eyes who has
been silent]
"Ed?" "Ed?"
"Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!"
Tim Gadd
> I personally find it disgusting,
In the interests of non judgementalism, we discourage people airing
their views on what disgusts them. From the FAQ:
>statements such as "I
>find that completely disgusting!" are not acceptable.
Still, with a bit of tweaking, the topic does relate to furry
sexuality, which is on-topic.
>I just don't get it. If someone likes dick, and wishes to draw dick..
>Where do the breasts come in? I thought that the whole idea of
>homosexuality was based around titaphobia, the fear of tits.
You're kidding, right? This brings to mind that sequence from
'Everything you always wanted to know about sex', where Woody Allen
gets chased across the countryside by a giant breast. There is a
gynaephobia<sp>(with which Salvador Dali and HP Lovecraft are supposed
to have been afflicted) , but 'titophobia' is certainly a new one on
me. In fact this is possibly the silliest alleged 'cause' of
homosexuality I've heard of since Robert Grave's declaration that it
was 'caused' by excess consumption of milk. Mind you, he was
shell-shocked in the first world war. Maybe bizarre theories about
lactation and homosexuality are caused by shell-shock. In any case a
female with a strap-on dick obviously isn't a simple homosexual image.
--
Tim Gadd
Hobart, Tasmania
Lupercal .com
@wolf-web
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/1161/
"I am not a human being, I am an animal!"
The Man Elephant.
Akai
Oh sh*t!
*wolf runs runs runs like hell*
--
Akai
We've just finished having
> roastRichChandler and didn't enjoy the taste at all. Way too dry and
> stringy. <G>
And the smell the leftovers left in the tupperware! Don't think I be
able to use that set for anything edible again.
> -Walk in Balance
> Ambergold Wolfeyes (a leeettle hair-trigger about art posts in the
> lifestyle group)
> SCA: Lady Aelfreda O'Llyn Ewig
> --
> D.Jean Cooper
> dcooperatinavdotnet
--
Kimba W. Lion
>But it seems that those who really know Photoshop
>the best, are not straight.
There must be a good comment to be made here, but I sure can't think
of it! :)
>am I the only one disgusted here?
Considering that I am ignorant of the non-phenomenon you describe
(fur.art.erotica is not the only source of furry art, by far, and so
I seriously doubt that it is the most popular type of furry art
today), I have to say I am not disgusted.
If you don't want to bring this art subject up in alt.fan.furry,
there's also alt.arts.anthro (which is just about unused, so should
be ready for a discussion) or alt.culture.anthropomorphics (which I
don't know much about).
Kimba
Tim Gadd
>If you don't want to bring this art subject up in alt.fan.furry,
>there's also alt.arts.anthro (which is just about unused, so should
>be ready for a discussion) or alt.culture.anthropomorphics (which I
>don't know much about).
It may be off-topic in a.c.a., as, if I remember, the charter
prohibits discussion of furry fandom.
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> Of all aspects of Furry, from Art to Zoophila.. There is no fur-fetish
> that is more puzzling to me than that of Vixens with Dicks-On.
> Who came up with it, why did it start.. And why is it the most popular
> topic of art in Furry today?
Assuming that this is a serious post and not a troll, I will make some
suggestions here:
> I personally find it disgusting, and it really turns me off.
> I've been downloading binaries from fur.art.erotica for some time now,
> and over 30% of it contained pictures of female vulps stroking, spewing
> or fucking eachother.. beating the 25% of male fucking male. and the 16%
> of male masturbation.
Statement #1: Any newsgroup, and I do mean ANY newsgroup, is NOT
REPRESENTATIVE of the whole of that interest. I am a furry artist, I have a
lot of friends who are furry artists, and I don't know a single one who POSTS
binaries on a newsgroup. Therefore, all of furry fandom's art interests
cannot be derived from looking at one small newsgroup.
Heck, I can't even GET to the fur.* groups.
You want a better 'representation' of what people in furry fandom like
drawing, you're better off going through FurNation or Velan Central Archive
or Yiffco (whenever it comes back) and see 800-flipping-artists and the stuff
they chose to post online. Even that isn't completely representative since
most of us keep the _good_ stuff offline for selling as prints.
> I just don't get it. If someone likes dick, and wishes to draw dick..
Then they'll draw a dick. Pure and simple.
> Where do the breasts come in? I thought that the whole idea of
How about they like breasts too? Did that occur to you?
> homosexuality was based around titaphobia, the fear of tits.
WTFO? Where did *that* idea come from?? I have a lot of gay male friends who
have tit-ENVY, not fear. Sheesh!
Gay men did not become gay by being scared off of women. While _you_ may
thing the dominant sexual characteristic of women is tits, there's a reason
why it's called a _secondary_ sexual characteristic. The dominant sexual
characteristic of women is the genitals, just like on a guy. Gay men just
have a preference for male genitals rather than female genitals -- and even
that isn't the whole of being gay, but that's another subject of discussion.
> Another striking conclusion that comes to mind, is that in no species of
> animal are there females with dicks. So, this must be some form of
Wrong. Hyena females have an elongated clitoris called a psuedo-penis that is
actually used for enforcing social hierarchy and pack dominance.
> original fetish. Where did it come from? Why is it so big?
It ISN'T! Hermaphroditism is a popular sub-genre of furry fandom, but it's a
popular sub-genre of human sexuality without the furry aspect, too! I know of
far too many She-male mags to believe this is solely a furry-pervert thing.
> Personally, I'd like to see some more good 'natural' erotic art of high
> quality put out there. But it seems that those who really know Photoshop
> the best, are not straight. (Not to say I have any grudge with gays,
Wrong again... the good Photoshop artists don't put their best work ONLINE.
> it's just that I know there are alot more straight people than gay, so
> where are they?)
You do, eh? Can you give me a report stating that?
Personally, I believe there are more bisexuals than _either_ homo or hetero
sexuals, but I have a limited sampling of humanity to base my judgement on.
Kinsey did a far better job and actually partially-validates my belief. Can
you quote me a reference about how many more Straight men there are in furry
fandom than Gay men... or even Bi men?
> The only thing that I can think of is that those who draw really good
> 'straight' erotic art are either too embarrassed to post it, or those who
> draw 'other' art are posting way to often.
Embarrassed? Not a chance... anyone who looks at my FTP site can see that. I
just refuse to post to binaries. I think you are putting far too much weight
on this tiny binaries group being representative of the whole and that's just
plain lunacy.
> Anyway, Vix with Dicks.. am I the only one disgusted here?
Considering you're talking to Alt.LIFESTYLE.furry, I'd say if you aren't,
you're certainly in a minority. There are people who may not _prefer_ them,
but they're also not up to bashing the artists who do. It's up to the
individual. You have the right to NOT LOOK AT IT. You want to see more het
art on the binaries group? Commission an artist and ask permission to post it
there. Simple.
Gee, why am I suddenly inspired to draw a leather-bitch vixen with a harness
doing rude things, now?
-- ermine
==================================
home email: KhromatAtInOrbitDotCom
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> newsm...@207.0.0.1 (Raccoon) wrote:
>
> >But it seems that those who really know Photoshop
> >the best, are not straight.
>
> of it! :)
>
>
> (fur.art.erotica is not the only source of furry art, by far, and so
> I seriously doubt that it is the most popular type of furry art
> today), I have to say I am not disgusted.
>
> there's also alt.arts.anthro (which is just about unused, so should
> be ready for a discussion) or alt.culture.anthropomorphics (which I
> don't know much about).
Sure, we'll field it at a.c.a. even if it's not exactly topical there either.
:3
a.c.a. is one of two things at this time:
1) Discussions of furry-races cultures (you know, like how a tail affects
furniture, color-vision and lack thereof affects fashion....) and how people
have used the furriness of their created races to emphasize a point....
2) Discussions of the FURRY CULTURE, the components of both enjoying furry
stuff and feeling furry and how that creates a subculture.
I suppose this little question fits under heading #2, although I'm still
convinced that it's a non-issue.
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> >there's also alt.arts.anthro (which is just about unused, so should
> >be ready for a discussion) or alt.culture.anthropomorphics (which I
> >don't know much about).
>
> prohibits discussion of furry fandom.
*blink?* We gotta CHARTER?? I never saw no postings about a charter... and
I've been lurking for _months_ before I usurped it! :3
Anyone out there got a copy of this a.c.a. charter I can look at?
Boomer The Dog
Kimba W. Lion
>It may be off-topic in a.c.a., as, if I remember, the charter
>prohibits discussion of furry fandom.
I knew I shouldn't have mentioned a group I wasn't familiar with. I just
subscribed to have a look around, now...
Kimba
Tim Gadd
> Can
>you quote me a reference about how many more Straight men there are in furry
>fandom than Gay men... or even Bi men?
I remember once going through a mental list of all my male furry
friends, and couldn't think of a _single one_ who was straight.
(there is one, actually, but only one, from memory.) Of the 10 males
I've had the most correspondance with, 4 are gay, 5 are bi, and one is
straight, as far as I know. As I'm more or less straight myself, this
certainly isn't due to any sampling error due to my own proclivities.
Tim Gadd
>Well, it's a part of Human erotica too...
>I can think of several reasons:
>The hermaphrodite image with the reproductive organs of both sexes.
>Like some Furries want tails and muzzles; the idea of cross species is
>entertained, why not cross sexuality?
>Transformation, taking on a new form, or a facination with transgender
>ideas...
Actually the idea of cross-gender images is completely consistent with
the whole cross-species thing of furry. Both are about blurring
boundaries.
Tim Gadd
>*blink?* We gotta CHARTER?? I never saw no postings about a charter... and
>I've been lurking for _months_ before I usurped it! :3
>Anyone out there got a copy of this a.c.a. charter I can look at?
Apologies. It turns out I was thinking of alt.arts.anthro. - a newer
group.
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> >Photoshop the best, are not straight. (Not to say I have any grudge
> >with gays, it's just that I know there are alot more straight people
> >than gay, so where are they?)
>
> be..... wrong! Kinsey found that "straight" as an absolute is rare. What
> I'm getting at, is there might be broad interest in homoerotic art, but
> most think it's a narrow specialty because of the 'cultural brainwash'
> we constantly get. Face it, the sexual part of our culture is based on
> female/male coupling, with (I_think) disproportionate representation of
> other possible relations.
I think Reed Waller said it best: EVERYONE has had a sexual encounter with the
same sex. It's called masturbation. So take good care of yourself, as you're
the best partner you've got. :3
Rael
Tim Gadd wrote in message <71sgvm$phb$2...@crucigera.fysh.org>...
>>ideas...
>
>Actually the idea of cross-gender images is completely consistent with
>the whole cross-species thing of furry. Both are about blurring
>boundaries.
Boundaries deep-rooted in the core foundation of modern society. People
have lived forever with many different "givens"...two of which being:
1. The belief that the sexes are meant to be separate and defined in "black
and white" terms. While there is a "natural" basis for some of it, much is
simply the age-old designation of specific gender roles and
responsibilities.
2. The belief that humans are the highest forms of life on the Earth..and in
some people's minds, in the universe.
Yet, as the years go by, these boundaries and beliefs break down, and views
tend to broaden. Women's movements, the search for life on other planets,
men staying home to tend to children while wives go to work, studies to
decipher the language of dolphins....slowly but surely people start to move
beyond the things they were taught.
So...I think it's to be expected that you'll see this growing diversity of
tastes and interests within the things they find attractive or desirable.
As Tim said above, just as furs have both an external and personal interest
in cross-species "states of being", some also posess some attraction to
cross-gender states.
Now, just like with species, it can be something one desires in a
mate/friend, or something one wants for themselves. For myself, it's a
little of both..and includes both species and gender. I really like the
idea of possessing numerous physical traits and abilities outside my normal
ones. Some traits express themselves naturally, while most physical bits
need a little "push" to be apparent :)
It's the same thing with my gender. I am rather comfortable with my "in
between" gender status, and find that it suits me, as an individual, quite
well. Where there once was a need to "do right" and work towards becoming
what the world expects of a female, there is now the greater need to express
what I want for myself...the state of being that I find most fascinating.
Sure...that leaves me in a somewhat awkward position, depending on
circumstances, but being "80/20" isn't all that bad *smile*
My tastes, as such, do sometimes include others of familiar situation. It
all simply depends on my mood, but nevertheless it all still comes down to
the person at hand, so whatever they are is second to that anyway.
OTOH you have those individuals attracted to cross-gender mates/friends.
While the so-called reasoning for it is endless, ranging from the "too
scared to admit to being gay" concept to the " hetero male transposing his
penis-fixation to his sexual desires" rubbish, I think it's simply just a
matter of desiring a little more variety. You have to admit, for someone
with broad needs and desires, a strictly-defined partner would tend to get
sexually boring rather quickly. So...hence the invention of the type of
fur/person that fills in those needs for the "in between". There's more to
a person than what's in their undies, yes, but when attention turns
specifically to what's there...some people like to be surprised :)
Yet, by all means I'm not saying you have to like this sort of thing. As
far as "being" goes...the grass isn't really any greener on the other
side...just a different variety of grass :) As for wanting...everyone has
specific desires that are all their own, and I should think no-one expects
you to conform to their ideas of what is and is not attractive (no-one here,
anyway). Yet, you must realize that, in a "public" forum with a broad range
of "appropriate material", it should be expected that people will
express/cater to all different types of interests. So, whatever doesn't
suit you is simply best left ignored, IMO...
Rael
Yes I changed the subject a little..I don't care for *that* word too much.
It's my reply, so :P *giggle*
http://www.toast.net/~srh/
ICQ #: 2471130
"Someday soon we'll stop to ponder, what on earth's this spell we're under.
We've made the grade and still we wonder who the hell we are...."
--D. DeYoung
vu...@erols.com
khr...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > If you mean "straight" as in 'never have same sex thoughts', you might
> > be..... wrong! Kinsey found that "straight" as an absolute is rare. What
> > I'm getting at, is there might be broad interest in homoerotic art, but
> > most think it's a narrow specialty because of the 'cultural brainwash'
> > we constantly get. Face it, the sexual part of our culture is based on
> > female/male coupling, with (I_think) disproportionate representation of
> > other possible relations.
>
> I think Reed Waller said it best: EVERYONE has had a sexual encounter with the
> same sex. It's called masturbation. So take good care of yourself, as you're
> the best partner you've got. :3
Or, for some of us, the only partner we've got. :)
Reminds me of a bit of dialog from a story I read by a friend of mine:
"I feel so low after masturbating." "Oh? Why?" "It just hits me that the only
person with low enough standards to have sex with me, is me." :)
> -- ermine
Andrian
<Who's feeling a bit punchy as the day wears on.> :)
--
Andrija Popovic
vu...@erols.com
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> khr...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > Can
> >you quote me a reference about how many more Straight men there are in furry
> >fandom than Gay men... or even Bi men?
>
> friends, and couldn't think of a _single one_ who was straight.
> (there is one, actually, but only one, from memory.) Of the 10 males
> I've had the most correspondance with, 4 are gay, 5 are bi, and one is
> straight, as far as I know. As I'm more or less straight myself, this
> certainly isn't due to any sampling error due to my own proclivities.
Well, that's my point. I know a heck of a lot more than 10 men and even the
ones with steady girlfriends or wives are predominantly bisexual. The sad
fact is that among my 300+ friends, maybe 20% are female (that number is
boosted by my non-furry Faire/SCA/LASFS friends). Of the remaining men, I
think I can count a sum total of 5 genuine heteros. The rest are either bi
with a female preference, bi with a male preference, bi with no preference,
genuine homosexuals, and a couple of "To be determined" (kinda hard to find
out your sexual preferences when you've never had sex).
That's not to say that there aren't hardwired hets in this community, but
that I just find them the exception rather than the rule. :3
-- ermine (I don't mind monosexualism, I just don't understand it.)
Sidhain
>*blink?* We gotta CHARTER?? I never saw no postings about a charter... and
>I've been lurking for _months_ before I usurped it! :3
>
>Anyone out there got a copy of this a.c.a. charter I can look at?
>
>-- ermine
>==================================
>home email: KhromatAtInOrbitDotCom
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Yep and i have been here since August? September and even I have seen the
charter....
its been mentioned many times.
Shows ya what lurking does.....
All ye can see is peoples feet...
Charlie Luce
[...]
>That's not to say that there aren't hardwired hets in this community, but
>that I just find them the exception rather than the rule. :3
>
>-- ermine (I don't mind monosexualism, I just don't understand it.)
I keep saying straight guys are a put-upon minority in furdom, but will anyone
listen? Nooooo... :}
_I_ keep thinking of Dr. Seuss style plays on the subject line:
"This Vix has some double-Ds,
That Vix has _two_ ways to please,
Say! What a lot of Vix he sees!"
"I do not like them on a page
I do not like them in a cage
I do not like them on my screen
I do not like these Vix I've seen."
Flicker
>
> Oh no! You mean that you've been keeping that stuff around? Quick get
> rid of it! ...
>
> Or vacuum packing, that might work, freeze drying might be good too. But
> if you want to maintain it's volatile properties, then you should probably
> stick to standard freezing. If any updates on the stuff filter down to me
> from the Lab, I'll be sure to forward them to you. :)
Perhaps we could launch it into the sun until we want it again...
-Flicker, Mad Coyote
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
> I just don't get it. If someone likes dick, and wishes to draw dick..
Actually, I think it's a fear of vaginas. Consider the nightmare scenario in
Wicked City of a vagina with teeth.
> Another striking conclusion that comes to mind, is that in no species
> of animal are there females with dicks. So, this must be some form
> of original fetish. Where did it come from? Why is it so big?
Haven't seen the followups yet, but I wager someone's going to mention the
female hynea. (Forgetting that it's only one subspecies of hyena, and not all
of them).
Yes, men are afraid of vaginas with teeth.....
... and women are afraid of cavities. :-)
--
The greatest tragedy is that the same species that achieved space flight,
a cure for polio, and the transistor, is also featured nightly on COPS.
-- Richard Chandler
Spammer Warning: Washington State Law now provides civil penalties for UCE.
Doodles
> newsm...@207.0.0.1 (Raccoon) wrote:
>> original fetish. Where did it come from? Why is it so big?
>
>It ISN'T! Hermaphroditism is a popular sub-genre of furry fandom, but it's a
>popular sub-genre of human sexuality without the furry aspect, too! I know of
>far too many She-male mags to believe this is solely a furry-pervert thing.
Just check out www.isna.org for any questions you folks out there
reading this might have reguarding real herms....
>Gee, why am I suddenly inspired to draw a leather-bitch vixen with a harness
>doing rude things, now?
You draw it, I'll buy it. =};-3
Unca Spooge, having to living up to his name on occasion...
Lucas
> We've just finished having
> > roastRichChandler and didn't enjoy the taste at all. Way too dry and
> > stringy. <G>
> And the smell the leftovers left in the tupperware! Don't think I be
> able to use that set for anything edible again.
Oh no! You mean that you've been keeping that stuff around? Quick get
rid of it! I have a suspicion, mind you the second set of experiments is
still being conducted in the Hazardous Substances lab, but I have reason to
believe that if that stuff is left around, it may begin to divide and
regrow if allowed access to any other semi food substance!
If you want to keep it around, possibly as a base material for making
incendiary bombs, then maybe we should make sure that it's put into the
deep freeze until it's called for. I mean, I know that it was roast, but
any pieces that were taken off while the roast was still rare (and I know
that some furs like things REALLY rare...) so maybe we should just do the
freezing bit as an added precaution.
Tim Gadd
>Well, that's my point.
Yep, I was agreeing with you on purpose, not accidentally ;)
Duncan da Husky
>> homosexuality was based around titaphobia, the fear of tits.
>WTFO? Where did *that* idea come from?? I have a lot of gay male friends who
>have tit-ENVY, not fear. Sheesh!
I'd respond to this, but I think everything that needs to be said has been, so
I'll just retire to my corner and continue giggling at this idea. It does put
me in mind of a quote (from the other direction, though) by the fabulous
lesbian comedian Lea Delaria: "People think lesbians don't like penises. This
is not true. We like penises, just not attached to men." <grin>
-Duncan da Husky, still chortling at "titaphobia"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Brady dun...@uncia.com http://www.technomancer.com/~duncan
Furry: Duncan da Husky SCA: Duncan MacKinnon of Tobermory
"There are lots of things I'd like to be someday, but 'normal'
is definitely not one of them." - Nelson Minar
Akai
>
> Akai <ak...@teleport.com> wrote in article <364170...@teleport.com>...
> > We've just finished having
> > > roastRichChandler and didn't enjoy the taste at all. Way too dry and
> > > stringy. <G>
> > And the smell the leftovers left in the tupperware! Don't think I be
> > able to use that set for anything edible again.
>
> Oh no! You mean that you've been keeping that stuff around? Quick get
> rid of it! I have a suspicion, mind you the second set of experiments is
> still being conducted in the Hazardous Substances lab, but I have reason to
> believe that if that stuff is left around, it may begin to divide and
> regrow if allowed access to any other semi food substance!
I was keeping it for mold culture experiments. Strangely enough nothing
would grow on it...it seems there is enough residual bitchiness in the
remains that even the hardiest microorganisms find it an unsuitable
habitat.
> If you want to keep it around, possibly as a base material for making
> incendiary bombs, then maybe we should make sure that it's put into the
> deep freeze until it's called for. I mean, I know that it was roast, but
> any pieces that were taken off while the roast was still rare (and I know
> that some furs like things REALLY rare...) so maybe we should just do the
> freezing bit as an added precaution.
Maybe I'll keep it in the cellar with the AKIRA samples...
> Or vacuum packing, that might work, freeze drying might be good too. But
> if you want to maintain it's volatile properties, then you should probably
> stick to standard freezing. If any updates on the stuff filter down to me
> from the Lab, I'll be sure to forward them to you. :)
It could be a cure for gingivitis, athlete's foot, halitosis, yeast
infections...or it could be the perfect contraceptive....or just a
horrible biological weapon that will wreak untold devastation upon the
world. Ain't biology fun?
Akai
>
> Lucas wrote:
> >
> > Oh no! You mean that you've been keeping that stuff around? Quick get
> >
> > Or vacuum packing, that might work, freeze drying might be good too. But
> > if you want to maintain it's volatile properties, then you should probably
> > stick to standard freezing. If any updates on the stuff filter down to me
> > from the Lab, I'll be sure to forward them to you. :)
>
>
> -Flicker, Mad Coyote
Hardly a better place for a flamer....
Raccoon
(Richard Chandler - WA Resident) says...
>Actually, I think it's a fear of vaginas. Consider the nightmare scenario in
>Wicked City of a vagina with teeth.
>
>female hynea. (Forgetting that it's only one subspecies of hyena, and not all
>of them).
Yes actually, there are quite a few mentionings.
But thats about as significant as the fact that raccoons have a penis
bone.
>
>Yes, men are afraid of vaginas with teeth.....
>
>... and women are afraid of cavities. :-)
>
> -- Richard Chandler
Would you recommend VaginalB or a Reach Brand tooth brush? :)
- Raccoon
alt [dot] raccoon [at] usa [dot] net
Raccoon
Cooper) says...
>Raccoon wrote:
>>
>> Of all aspects of Furry, from Art to Zoophila.. There is no fur-fetish
>> that is more puzzling to me than that of Vixens with Dicks-On.
>> Who came up with it, why did it start.. And why is it the most popular
>> topic of art in Furry today?
>>
>> I've been downloading binaries from fur.art.erotica for some time now,
>> and over 30% of it contained pictures of female vulps stroking, spewing
>> or fucking eachother.. beating the 25% of male fucking male. and the 16%
>> of male masturbation.
>> Where do the breasts come in? I thought that the whole idea of
>> animal are there females with dicks. So, this must be some form of
>>
>> the best, are not straight. (Not to say I have any grudge with gays,
>> it's just that I know there are alot more straight people than gay, so
>> where are they?)
>> 'straight' erotic art are either too embarrassed to post it, or those who
>> draw 'other' art are posting way to often.
>>
>> - Raccoon
>> alt [dot] raccoon [at] usa [dot] net
>>
>Raccoon, I'm afraid you've hit the wrong group. This is
>alt.lifestyle.furry, *not* alt.fan.furry. Unless your post has something
>that means something *to you* about -being- furry, then please take posts
>like this back over to AFF. Or if you're deliberatly trying to start a
>flaming, you've got a good start. We've just finished having
>roastRichChandler and didn't enjoy the taste at all. Way too dry and
>stringy. <G> Please read the FAQ and charter before you reply. Thanx.
>-Walk in Balance
>
>Ambergold Wolfeyes (a leeettle hair-trigger about art posts in the
>lifestyle group)
>SCA: Lady Aelfreda O'Llyn Ewig
>--
>D.Jean Cooper
>dcooperatinavdotnet
>
Ok, I apologize.
I took my post a bit farther than I originally intended to.
About my remarks about being disgusted.. I was actually referring to the
fact that this is all the art that I am finding at the binaries group,
not saying that I'm disgusted at the artists or viewers of such art.
Anyone that has read any of my posts at alt.fan.furry regarding 'Death of
Furry' and 'Burned Fur' know that I am open minded to the opinions others
express in their interests. "I can't change what other people like"
And the reason I'm posting to this group, is because to my knowledge
a.f.f is a general audience group while this is considered the adult
discussion group.
It's just that since I've joined Furry a couple years ago, I've noticed
many changes.. and one of those changes are that I'm seeing less and less
of what society accepts as being 'normal', and I'm really starting to
wonder where everyone went that I knew 2 years ago.
There was a time (In my fur experience) when the majority of interest was
heterosexual just as my interests are. But now that seems to have
changed, and I'm looking for a reason.. When, How and Why?
Another thing that I'd like to mention. Most seem to think I'm referring
to females with strapped on genitalia, or men with breasts. Well, I'm
talking about females with a built in male organ.
So how does this relate to homosexuality unless we're talking about
lesbians? Wouldn't a gay be attracted to someone with male facial and or
physical attributes? Where does a female with a dick come in? Are they
really male furs in drag, taking hormones and still awaiting their
surgery?
What did I miss? What do I call it? Is it as popular as I think it is?
- Raccoon
alt [dot] raccoon [at] usa [dot] net
--
Random site: (Rocket Raccoon Comic Covers)
http://members.tripod.com/~raccoonsite/comics/rocketcovers.html
CmdrKainS
In article <MPG.10acb2457...@news.yiff.net>, newsm...@207.0.0.1
(Raccoon) writes:
>Ok, I apologize.
>I took my post a bit farther than I originally intended to.
>About my remarks about being disgusted.. I was actually referring to the
>fact that this is all the art that I am finding at the binaries group,
>not saying that I'm disgusted at the artists or viewers of such art.
>Anyone that has read any of my posts at alt.fan.furry regarding 'Death of
>Furry' and 'Burned Fur' know that I am open minded to the opinions others
>express in their interests. "I can't change what other people like"
>And the reason I'm posting to this group, is because to my knowledge
>a.f.f is a general audience group while this is considered the adult
>discussion group.
Well, I've been around on Furry in it's various online guises and found that
very few furry artists will *ever* post their works in the Binaries. Most furry
art is found either:
On a webpage archive.
On an FTP archive.
Only IRL and from the artist.
So just looking at Binaries, you *will* see a very narrow view of furry art.
Try checking out www.furnation.com or any of the other furry art archives, I'm
sure you'll find something more to your tastes...
As for ALF being adult audience, yes and no. Yes in that we do discuss adult
topics, but no if you're looking for a place to discuss adult furry art.
Like has been said allready, ALF is only for discussions that affect *you* IRL
that deal with furry or being furry.
No offense intended, but you're definately looking in the wrong places for
furrotica or furrotica discussion. Sorry.
>It's just that since I've joined Furry a couple years ago, I've noticed
>many changes.. and one of those changes are that I'm seeing less and less
>of what society accepts as being 'normal', and I'm really starting to
>wonder where everyone went that I knew 2 years ago.
I think I can answer that. At least or myself and a few friends. See below...
>There was a time (In my fur experience) when the majority of interest was
>heterosexual just as my interests are. But now that seems to have
>changed, and I'm looking for a reason.. When, How and Why?
This is due to the fact that human society is startiing to become more
accustomed to 'alternate' lifestyles (IE Gays, Bi's, Lesbians, Zoos, etc...)
and now the furries who have previously hid these tendancies are becoming more
open about it.
Keep in mind this is my personal opinion and I'm not even sure how acurate it
is anyways. <grin>
When? Don't know. How? Dunno either. Why? Why, now there's a good question. I
don't think *anyone* can explain *why* such-and-such person is, or isn't,
gay/etc...Because the 'reasons' for their orientation are as diverse as the
amount of people themselves. I myself am just a *very* affectionate fur, who
believes that sex and pleasure should be shared equally and freely. Something
that unfortantely isn't likely to happen due to STD's and human hangups about
sex. As for *why* I am this way? I can't tell you, cause I don't know myself, I
just am.
There aren't any real answers to what you're asking. So you only have three
options:
A. Leave.
B. Tolerate us, even if you don't agree.
C. Get to know us, and maybe even get to know more about yourself.
I as a fur will allways hope that people in your situation will choose path C,
but it's your life. Let us live ours as well?
>Another thing that I'd like to mention. Most seem to think I'm referring
>to females with strapped on genitalia, or men with breasts. Well, I'm
>talking about females with a built in male organ.
>So how does this relate to homosexuality unless we're talking about
>lesbians? Wouldn't a gay be attracted to someone with male facial and or
>physical attributes? Where does a female with a dick come in? Are they
>really male furs in drag, taking hormones and still awaiting their
>surgery?
This is called a hermaphrodite, a herm for short, a being with the sexual
genitalia of both male and female sexes.
I'll try to answer each of your questions as best I can. Again, I'm not an
expert, and also think that noone *can* be one. Thses are just my thoughts.
First off, I know several gay men who would be quite happy to be able to have
sex with a true herm. This is because Herms are usually portrayed as being both
male and female, not only in genitalia, but also in personality. Those same gay
men I know would be attracted to such a person.
I happen to be Bisexual, so i can say that not all gay men are *only*, or at
all, attracted to the male body. Many are attracted to the male personality and
mindset. At least I am. I personally don't care, much, if the person I'm with
is male, female, herm, or other, just so long as I enjoy their mind and
personality, then their body is attractive to me as well. This is also how I am
attracted to non-humans (animals, plushies, real furs, etc...) as well. I look
at the mind, then the body.
Plus there's an added bonus, sometimes, from being gay and being with a herm.
It is *possible*, however usually difficult, for both partners to take and be
taken. Personally if I could try this, I would. But that's me. <grin>
Herms are neither male or female, but instead *both*! They are neither males in
drag with hormone treatments, nor females with abnormal growth. They are a
sex/gender apart. Unfortunately the human genetic code causes true herms IRL to
be unstable and sterile. Cause personally I'd find a true IRL herm to be quite
attractive
On a side note, who else shares my feelings about herms, weather furry or non?.
>What did I miss? What do I call it? Is it as popular as I think it is?
Not sure what you thought you missed, but like I said about art, maybe you
were/are looking in the wrong places to feel comfortable. If you don't feel
comfortable enough to stay here and discuss furry lifestyles with us, then may
I politely suggest you find somewhere else? For all our sakes?
What do you call it, a herm/hermaph/hermaphrodite are all acceptable terms.
As for popular, it depends on how popular you think it is. Once again, ALF is
only a small percentage of the whole fandom. Try looking at other Furry areas
and see what they are up to. You might find that Furry Fandom is as varied as
human society, to an extent of course. <grin>
Trace Kern
Trac...@juno.com
Cmdr...@aol.com
Tim Gadd
>As for ALF being adult audience, yes and no. Yes in that we do discuss adult
>topics, but no if you're looking for a place to discuss adult furry art.
>Like has been said allready, ALF is only for discussions that affect *you* IRL
>that deal with furry or being furry.
>No offense intended, but you're definately looking in the wrong places for
>furrotica or furrotica discussion. Sorry.
Unless the furotica discussion was more than just a discussion of the
artwork, and had some general or personal content related to being
furry.
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> khr...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >Well, that's my point.
>
> Yep, I was agreeing with you on purpose, not accidentally ;)
*giggle!*
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> In article <981105233...@mauser.at.gte.net>, mau...@kendra.com
> (Richard Chandler - WA Resident) says...
> >Actually, I think it's a fear of vaginas. Consider the nightmare scenario in
> >Wicked City of a vagina with teeth.
> >
> >Haven't seen the followups yet, but I wager someone's going to mention the
> >female hynea. (Forgetting that it's only one subspecies of hyena, and not
> >all of them).
>
> Yes actually, there are quite a few mentionings.
> But thats about as significant as the fact that raccoons have a penis
> bone.
It is significant in the fact that you made the statement "There are no
animals where the females have penises", therefore mentioning that species of
Hyena is appropriate to counter your assumption.
And Raccoons aren't the only animal with a penal bone. Most all the mustelid
family have them, and I believe that part of the sheath of most mammalians is
a boney structure, seeing that I recall some paper on the Aquatic Ape theory
mentioning the a point of argument: the human penis not having a bone to
limit the retraction and to streamline the body makes sense if he had to live
in a watery environment.
> >
> >Yes, men are afraid of vaginas with teeth.....
Only because your penis can't bite back. ;3
Try using scale-mail condoms next time. OOoh, that texture! :9
> >... and women are afraid of cavities. :-)
...and impacted wisdom teeth. *ouwwww*
> Would you recommend VaginalB or a Reach Brand tooth brush? :)
Personaly, I'd use a waterpik. Good hygene and fun at the same time!
-- ermine (yes, I can wallow in the gutter with the best of 'em)
Farlo
>the reason I'm posting to this group, is because to my knowledge
>a.f.f is a general audience group while this is considered the adult
>discussion group.
Oops.
Well, we *do* hold adult discussions here, but generally art and
comics is a topic for AFF. ALF really isn't "the mature version of
AFF", as comics and pictures are usually off-topic here.
Check the FAQ =)
>But now that seems to have
>changed, and I'm looking for a reason.. When, How and Why?
Larger numbers mean a less homogenous group. Also, the environment of
tolerance and acceptance encourages people to "be themselves", which
means that you see a more honest range of sexual interests.
-------------------
Farlo m>*_*<m
Urban Fey Dragon
Standard XXXX
@abac.com XXXX
-------------------
Tim Gadd
>It is significant in the fact that you made the statement "There are no
>animals where the females have penises"
The animals were scared away, or what? :)
MegaDog the Nettweiler
<newsm...@207.0.0.1> writes
>In article <981105233...@mauser.at.gte.net>, mau...@kendra.com
>(Richard Chandler - WA Resident) says...
>>female hynea. (Forgetting that it's only one subspecies of hyena, and not all
>>of them).
>
>Yes actually, there are quite a few mentionings.
>But thats about as significant as the fact that raccoons have a penis
>bone.
Ah, yes... check out http://www.luckymojo.com/RaccoonPenis.html
for evidence of what can be done with the bones once their
original owners have finished with them...
--
!Raised Tails! -:MegaDog:-
http://www.canismajor.demon.co.uk/index.html
"I wish i was in Tijuana, eating barbecued Iguana" -Wall of Voodoo
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> dco...@inav.net (D. Jean > Cooper) says...
> >Raccoon wrote:
> >> Of all aspects of Furry, from Art to Zoophila.. There is no fur-fetish
> >> that is more puzzling to me than that of Vixens with Dicks-On.
> >> Who came up with it, why did it start.. And why is it the most popular
> >> topic of art in Furry today?
> >Raccoon, I'm afraid you've hit the wrong group. This is
> >alt.lifestyle.furry, *not* alt.fan.furry. Unless your post has something
> >that means something *to you* about -being- furry, then please take posts
> >like this back over to AFF. Or if you're deliberatly trying to start a
> >flaming, you've got a good start. We've just finished having
> >roastRichChandler and didn't enjoy the taste at all. Way too dry and
> >stringy. <G> Please read the FAQ and charter before you reply. Thanx.
> Ok, I apologize.
> I took my post a bit farther than I originally intended to.
> About my remarks about being disgusted.. I was actually referring to the
> fact that this is all the art that I am finding at the binaries group,
If you haven't read my previous post yet, please do. I point out that the
binaries groups are not representative of the whole of furry art interest
because of the simple fact that most of us artists don't _post_ there. Many
more don't have their artwork anywhere on the Internet. You cannot judge the
animal from the feather -- it might be an eagle, or it might be a griffon.
> not saying that I'm disgusted at the artists or viewers of such art.
> Anyone that has read any of my posts at alt.fan.furry regarding 'Death of
> Furry' and 'Burned Fur' know that I am open minded to the opinions others
> express in their interests. "I can't change what other people like"
> And the reason I'm posting to this group, is because to my knowledge
> a.f.f is a general audience group while this is considered the adult
> discussion group.
I'm sorry, but that's not quite correct. We talk about adult (ie MATURE)
subjects here, but you are allowed the same on AFF as well. The groups are
separate for other reasons, not ratings of content.
Although, admittedly, some people on AFF demonstrate rather immature
attitudes, but that's not to say that ALF is the "R" group and AFF is the
"PG-13" group. AFF is for talking about furry fandom, ALF is for talking
about how furry relates to you as an individual. Your topic (translated to be
"Why does Fandom appear to like Hermaphrodite Sex?) is a _fandom_ subject,
not a lifestyle subject. If you were to ask "Would you ever like to be a
furry Hermaphrodite? How would it feel to be one?" Then those are topical
here. See the difference?
> It's just that since I've joined Furry a couple years ago, I've noticed
> many changes.. and one of those changes are that I'm seeing less and less
> of what society accepts as being 'normal', and I'm really starting to
> wonder where everyone went that I knew 2 years ago.
I dunno about who you knew, but I've been here since the beginning. ;3
("I have always been here...")
In the 15 years I have participated and observed the cultural evolution of
furry fandom, I can make the following factual statements:
1) Society in the US as a whole has become more perverted over time. When I
say 'perverted' I am referring to the fact that there is both a greater
freedom of expression and deviancy at the same time there is greater
oppression using laws and a stronger 'noisy' attitude to interfere with the
personal rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. A deviant does
something considered wrong by the social norm but he personally doesn't
believe it is wrong; a pervert is someone who does something wrong and
_believes_ that it is wrong while he is doing it.
2) Furry Fandom has _always_ drawn the fringe interests. We were the misfits
of the misfits: too fantastic for SF fandom, too adult for the Cartoon
fandom, too practical for the Fantasy fandom, etc. Furry Fandom, in spite the
battle and arguements otherwise, was _organized_ by people who were (on the
whole) sexually open, alternative, and creative in their expressions of their
interests.
3) When you combine the two factors, it is natural and logical to assume that
furry fandom has been getting more open in the fantasy fetishes and curious
sexual attractions as a side effect of what the Society at large tolerates. I
mean, homosexuals are almost blase' in 'perversion' now -- ask anyone who
remembered the 50's and how open a gay man could've been back then. Furry
couldn't have started much before the time it did because of the social mores'
of the time.
> There was a time (In my fur experience) when the majority of interest was
> heterosexual just as my interests are. But now that seems to have
> changed, and I'm looking for a reason.. When, How and Why?
Nope, you're wrong. Not in furry fandom. See arguements above.
There was a time where the predominant form of art was of females in
cheesecake poses, yes. It's still a major motif among furry artists if you
bother to look somewhere outside of the binaries group. Heck, most of my
friends and favorite artists draw females a lot, as do I. And het sex? You
can find it all over the place, if you look for it. I'm still pretty unknown
to the internet-only crowd, but most of my commissions have in fact been
sexual couplings, het and otherwise. I don't *post* them, so you may not
think I draw them, and that's not necessarily true, certainly untrue in my
case.
What _you_ personally were seeing before was one subgroup of people. Now you
are seeing another. Try expanding your search before making a judgement call
on all of us based on two small segments of the group.
You want het-sex art? Jim Hardiman does great stuff, Ken Sample has an online
printshop, Jeremy Kidd does commissions, _I_ do commissions, and you can find
a lot of other artists will cater to requests.
You want girls? There are artists like Shon Howell, Leia Graf, Terrie Smith,
Michelle Light, Daphnie Lage, Brian O'Connell, Caribou, Melissa Drake, Amy
Provonost, Genesis Cook, Stephanie Stone, Kese, Amara (the other one), Conrad
Wong, Doug Winger, Freddy Anderson, Baron Engel, Kishma Danielle, Diana Vick,
Tanamin, Eric Schwartz, Timbawulf, John Barrett, Jay Shell... sheesh, I could
fill a page with just the artists I _personally_ know who draw girls!
Now, how many of those names have you seen on fur.art.erotica? Hmm? How many
names up there are girls (and therefore less likely to draw gay-guy art for
themselves)? A large number of the list above have only a sketchy presence on
the internet, others (like me) have FTP sites with some of their artwork
available for downloading.
Please, please, PLEASE get away from the binaries group for a day and go
looking for webpages of the _rest_ of furry fandom's artists! I can count
maybe 10 of the artists listed above that I know draw hermaphrodites and
_none_ of them draws herms exclusively.
> Another thing that I'd like to mention. Most seem to think I'm referring
> to females with strapped on genitalia, or men with breasts. Well, I'm
> talking about females with a built in male organ.
So was I. It's called HERMAPHRODITES. :3
(Useless trivia: The term Hermaphrodite comes from a greek legend of a youth
called hermaphroditus who was a child of Venus and he possessed the attributes
of both man and woman.)
> So how does this relate to homosexuality unless we're talking about
> lesbians?
But we're _not_ talking about homosexuality here. Your original question was
asking why there are lots of drawings of herm vixens on fur.art.erotica....
and that somehow you've jumped to a assumed subject of why gays would like
them? Have you polled the gay population recently? I don't think they really
care that much about the herms!
And a lesbian may not like a herm anymore than a gay man would. It all depends
on how 'monosexual' the individual is.
Wouldn't a gay be attracted to someone with male facial and or
> physical attributes?
How do you explain effeminate "fairy" gay males, then? They're not very
masculine and yet they're involved in relationships with other men. How about
the transvestite gay men? Heck, how about the transvestite _hetero_ men? You
seem to be laboring under a contrained set of definitions, in my opinion.
>Where does a female with a dick come in?
They get to wear the pants in the house? :3 How about they can take on the
dominant male role so that the man can be submissive and still get his daily
dose of dick? How about herms are more interesting to bisexuals? How about
girls with masculine attributes may fantasize about having a dick without
losing all their femininity? How about you keep missing the female population
of fandom?
> Are they really male furs in drag, taking hormones and still awaiting their
> surgery?
Not always. The advantage of _furry_ herms is that the duality can be a
natural atribute of the race. You don't have to wonder if the being was once
single-gendered. :3
> What did I miss?
A lot.
> What do I call it?
Ignorance or naivete ... and Knowledge will set you free.
>Is it as popular as I think it is?
No, but that doesn't mean it's _unpopular_, either. You're just blowing this
way out of proportion.
-- ermine (femfur artist since 1982)
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> On Thu, 05 Nov 1998 14:38:43 GMT, khr...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > newsm...@207.0.0.1 (Raccoon) wrote:
> >
> >popular sub-genre of human sexuality without the furry aspect, too! I know of
> >far too many She-male mags to believe this is solely a furry-pervert thing.
>
> Just check out www.isna.org for any questions you folks out there
> reading this might have reguarding real herms....
I don't lurk there as often as I should... then again, I'm afraid they might
not understand me being an psychic hermaph. :3
> >Gee, why am I suddenly inspired to draw a leather-bitch vixen with a harness
> >doing rude things, now?
> You draw it, I'll buy it. =};-3
Hmmmm.... a portfolio called Hardcore Hermvixens? I can think of a few people
would would snatch it in an instant....
But first I'll need to be able to draw it. *sigh*
-- ermine
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> khr...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >*blink?* We gotta CHARTER?? I never saw no postings about a charter... and
> >I've been lurking for _months_ before I usurped it! :3
>
> >Anyone out there got a copy of this a.c.a. charter I can look at?
>
> group.
*Ahhhhhh!*
Okay! Apology accepted... I didn't _think_ there was a charter or anything
like that seeing that I hadn't heard of it prior to this. :3
khr...@my-dejanews.com
"Sidhain" <sid...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >*blink?* We gotta CHARTER?? I never saw no postings about a charter... and
> >I've been lurking for _months_ before I usurped it! :3
> >
> >Anyone out there got a copy of this a.c.a. charter I can look at?
> Yep and i have been here since August? September and even I have seen the
> charter....
There has been no mention of a charter on ACA in the 7 months or more I have
been there. No frequent postings of anykind, unless you count me. :3
> its been mentioned many times.
The charter for ALF has, yes... not ACA, which is the newsgroup I was
referring to.
> Shows ya what lurking does.....
Ahm... I don't lurk here. I'm an active ermine. :D
> All ye can see is peoples feet...
That's all I tend to see anyways.... except for my own, of course. We ermines
are small critters. :3
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> khr...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >It is significant in the fact that you made the statement "There are no
> >animals where the females have penises"
>
> The animals were scared away, or what? :)
Well, I'm pretty sure that the island of Lesbos had goats, so that counts them
out... :3
(Yea, that sentence was grammarically a mess... sorry.)
Ocelot Bob
>
>> Actually the idea of cross-gender images is completely consistent with
>> the whole cross-species thing of furry. Both are about blurring
>> boundaries.
>
>It's really amazing how similar reports from people with a gender
>trans-identity about their journey of discovery are compared to,
>say, mine, Kimba's or Swampy's. The difference is just, well, another
>aspect of identity that doesn't fit. I cannot imagine being anything
>but male, I've even tried cross-dressing once when I was 13 or 14
>(at "karneval" when you're supposed to costume in Germany), but I was
>just a male person in female dress. Nevertheless it was a very
>interesting and important experience. Important because I am very
>sure now that my biological gender matches my identity. Interesting
>because it showed I have at least *some* acting qualities...
>Everybody should try this at least once in his/her life.
>
>Anyway, I think we can actually learn from the experiences gender
>transidentics (is that a word?) tell. They have the technology to
>become what they are, yet they face severe problems we (with
>exception to the few furs with a gender _and_ species transidentity,
>I know two) can at least avoid. I hope to remember the most important:
>
>- discrimination by society, especially medics and bureaucrats.
>- health problems caused by the attempt to physically become their
> inner self.
>- especially: the life before the hormone therapy and operation
> doesn't simply vanish.
>- the "new" life isn't always what the person expected. (Though
> apparently nobody regrets her/his choice).
>
>Now, what will happen if technology would give us the fur we long
>for?
There will be a lot of opression, and some acceptance, the same with anything
that is new and different
> Will psychiatrists, medics and surgeons be willing to support
>us?
There are support groups for transsexuals, and I assume that there will be the
same with transspecials
>Will the society even allow us to be *us*?
See above. It may be an underground market, but there it will be there
>How about side effects of the operation?
There probably will be side affects as the mind gets used to the new form, but
like transsexuals, the change won't happen overnight, it'll probably take years
in order to make sure that this change is right.
>How far will the change reach?
The sky's the limit. There will be those who want to shed humanity altogether
and just be an animal, and there will be those who decide to kep their human
mund and change their physical appearance.
>How great will our former life and its problems influence us?
As much as you want it to. I hear of stories of transsexuals who start
completely new lives after their surgery, and those who carry on as they were
before, only checking the other gender box.
>What if we are content with our species after the process but other
>severe problems ruin our lives?
There is a chance to ruin your life by following all of the rules society sets
for its members. Nature wasn't a fool in designing minds. Tenacity is built
into almost every species to adapt and break away from adversity.
>As much as I long for being in the body of my species... I pray
>to God that the technology needed will not be available within
>my lifetime. But _if_ it is someday, I need to be able to decide.
>
From the advances in technology that have happened within the last few years,
it's looking like it may just happen. DNA testing which used to take a month or
longer can now be done over the weekend, we're implanting genes into animals to
produce something they normally wouldn't produce, and science has even
discovered a way to regrow brain tissue. These are interesting times. I for
one would be willing to leave this human existance, but that's just my opinion.
Ocelot Bob, Insane Heretic | Reality is all in
OcelotKen @ yahoo.com | your head
-----------------------------------------------
Member Militant Left Handers of America
http://members.tripod.com/~antidexterous/index.htm
Doodles
>> Just check out www.isna.org for any questions you folks out there
>> reading this might have reguarding real herms....
>
>I don't lurk there as often as I should... then again, I'm afraid they might
>not understand me being an psychic hermaph. :3
I don't understand the concept, either. But I'm ready and willing to
learn. =};-3
>Hmmmm.... a portfolio called Hardcore Hermvixens? I can think of a few people
>would would snatch it in an instant....
I can think of a few dozen...
>But first I'll need to be able to draw it. *sigh*
I think you have the skills, m'lady. You just need the inspiration.
Unca Spooge, patient.
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
> newsm...@207.0.0.1 (Raccoon) wrote:
Not me.
> > >Yes, men are afraid of vaginas with teeth.....
>
> Only because your penis can't bite back. ;3
>
> Try using scale-mail condoms next time. OOoh, that texture! :9
Plated for your protection ... and her pleasure. :-)
I wish I could remember the source of this joke....
"I knew a guy who was SO selfish. You know those condoms with the little
ridges that tickle and make 'em squeal? He wears them inside out."
> > >... and women are afraid of cavities. :-)
>
> ....and impacted wisdom teeth. *ouwwww*
>
> > Would you recommend VaginalB or a Reach Brand tooth brush? :)
>
> Personaly, I'd use a waterpik. Good hygene and fun at the same time!
Does that count as Water Sports? :-)
> -- ermine (yes, I can wallow in the gutter with the best of 'em)
... but you float better. :-)
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
> I dunno about who you knew, but I've been here since the beginning. ;3
> ("I have always been here...")
>
> In the 15 years I have participated and observed the cultural evolution
> of furry fandom, I can make the following factual statements:
>
> the misfits of the misfits: too fantastic for SF fandom, too adult for
> the Cartoon fandom, too practical for the Fantasy fandom, etc.
> Furry Fandom, in spite the battle and arguements otherwise, was _
> organized_ by people who were (on the whole) sexually open,
> alternative, and creative in their expressions of their interests.
>
I dunno, while you were hanging out with the PS crowd, it was a bit different
on the other side of the country, and the Twin Cities scene. Your view may be
slightly skewed, at least if the conditions on the left coast ere properly
reflected in any way by the infamous "Dr. Pepper file."
It wasn't exactly a golden age. At least not for those who weren't part of
the in-crowd out there. For us it was hard to get art because some people
tried to control the output and circulation of tenth generation Xeroxes of
furry art the way Randall Stuckey tried to control the distribution of tenth
gen copies of Urusei Yatsura episodes.
CmdrKainS
In article <71tmi9$3ir$1...@lykos.canis>, ow...@poboxes.com (Oecherwolf) writes:
>> Actually the idea of cross-gender images is completely consistent with
>> the whole cross-species thing of furry. Both are about blurring
>> boundaries.
<snip>
>As much as I long for being in the body of my species... I pray
>to God that the technology needed will not be available within
>my lifetime. But _if_ it is someday, I need to be able to decide.
To some degree I must agree with you O'wolf. If the technology to become one of
my characters in flesh as well as mind were suddenly available, I would
probably undergo it, and damn the torpedos. <grin>
But at the same time, I wonder how much of my 'old life' I'd have to give up.
And how many new problems I'd find.
>--
>o'wolf http://poboxes.com/owolf
>I used to be a werewolf but I'm better now--ooooooow! ;-)
Trace Kern
Trac...@juno.com
Cmdr...@aol.com
Tim Gadd
> add...@in.sig wrote:
>> khr...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>> >It is significant in the fact that you made the statement "There are no
>> >animals where the females have penises"
>>
>> The animals were scared away, or what? :)
>Well, I'm pretty sure that the island of Lesbos had goats, so that counts them
>out... :3
>(Yea, that sentence was grammarically a mess... sorry.)
There's nothing to be sorry about. If it weren't for ambiguities of
this sort, language wouldn't be much fun :)
Herman Miller
>Well, that's my point. I know a heck of a lot more than 10 men and even the
>ones with steady girlfriends or wives are predominantly bisexual. The sad
>fact is that among my 300+ friends, maybe 20% are female (that number is
>boosted by my non-furry Faire/SCA/LASFS friends). Of the remaining men, I
>think I can count a sum total of 5 genuine heteros. The rest are either bi
>with a female preference, bi with a male preference, bi with no preference,
>genuine homosexuals, and a couple of "To be determined" (kinda hard to find
>out your sexual preferences when you've never had sex).
Is it? I don't think so. First you have to be attracted to someone (real or
imaginary) and become "turned on" by the thought of having sex with them.
If a male never finds other males attractive, and is never aroused by
thoughts of sex with other males, I'd say that's a good bit of evidence
that he isn't homosexual or even bisexual, but strictly heterosexual.
There are other ways to tell, but I'll leave them to the imagination rather
than getting too explicit for this group.
So although I've never had sex with a furry (or even a human), I can be
fairly confident that I'm sexually attracted to certain females of certain
species, but not any of the males. Hermaphrodites were a bit confusing to
me, as if my subconscious mind isn't sure whether I should be attracted to
them or not, with the mixed signals they send, but I've become accustomed
to them, and respond to their female aspects as to a female.
>That's not to say that there aren't hardwired hets in this community, but
>that I just find them the exception rather than the rule. :3
That's surprising to me, at least. It's hard for me to imagine what males
find attractive about other males. I've given a lot of thought to the
features I find attractive in females, since it affects the quality of my
furry and elvish art. Two of them in particular are rare in males: small
noses and narrow waists.
Why I prefer narrow waists and some other males don't is something that I
don't quite understand, but then I can't see what so many males find
interesting in football either. Personal preferences are strange things. A
preference for narrow waists makes sense, but why should pointed ears and
widely-spaced larger-than-human-size eyes be attractive at all? Or tails
and whiskers on a humanoid figure?
Tim Gadd
>Why I prefer narrow waists and some other males don't is something that I
>don't quite understand, but then I can't see what so many males find
>interesting in football either. Personal preferences are strange things. A
>preference for narrow waists makes sense, but why should pointed ears and
>widely-spaced larger-than-human-size eyes be attractive at all? Or tails
>and whiskers on a humanoid figure?
If you can think of it, someone has a thing for it. I must admit I
find the range of fetishes which humans are capable of possessing
rather delightful in many cases. Someone released a survey a few years
back - I don;t recall whether it was Tasmanian or Australian - but I
remember some of the fetishes uncovered were a woman who got turned on
by hiding inside cupboards, and another who was excited by Hills
Hoist's (that's a type of clothes-line. I've never seen one in the
US.) I once had a girlfriend who became highly aroused when she saw me
shaving, and even by the shavings left over in the sink afterwards. My
very favourite is from the Derek and Clive sketch where Peter Cook
claims to be sexually aroused by the words 'The' and 'And' :)
"Whenever I see a sentance with 'the' and 'and' in it, I get so f----'
horny!" Dunno where that came from, sorry.
MegaDog the Nettweiler
<noe...@argonet.co.uk> writes
>>So how does this relate to homosexuality unless we're talking about
>>physical attributes? Where does a female with a dick come in? Are they
>>surgery?
>
>other words, if we imagine that large breasts are popular, and penises are
>popular, then why not save the effort of drawing two furries, and just draw
>one? :}
Some of us would, OTOH, prefer our meals to be served in
distinctly separate and identifiable courses, rather than
having everything heaped on the same plate.
--
!Raised Tails! -:MegaDog:-
http://www.canismajor.demon.co.uk/index.html
"If we don't answer the phone they won't know we're not here"
Kit an Amaideach Sionnach
wrote:
<snip snip>
>Anyway, Vix with Dicks.. am I the only one disgusted here?
>- Raccoon
*G* ... *puts on asbestos suit* .. Blame pelzig. *G*
Kitsune, the Horriblely ancient yiffnet fur.
Sun-stone
> Of all aspects of Furry, from Art to Zoophila.. There is no
> fur-fetish
> that is more puzzling to me than that of Vixens with Dicks-On.
> ... So, this must be some form of
> original fetish. Where did it come from? Why is it so big?
o/~One day soon
We're gonna yip to the moon
about the Vixen Game
o/~
Seriously, this phenomena demands all of our investigative journalism
skills.
Let's hope that this hasn't happened to Sky's vixens. Sky, I think that
you should do an immediate errrr .... inspection of the "League of
Vixens". Ya know, just to be sure that everything is in order =^_^=
After all, you wouldn't want any unexpected surprises at an inopportune
time. ::grins::
> Personally, I'd like to see some more good 'natural' erotic art of
> high
> quality put out there.
Well, you could just buy the latest issue of _Playboy_ and pretend that
Katerina Witt has kitty ears and a tail. Imagine her as an anthro-puma
girl. I think that's a splendid idea. (I *would* =^_^=)
> Anyway, Vix with Dicks.. am I the only one disgusted here?
I think I know what you're trying to say. You're looking for mainstream
erotic art that is in line with majority tastes (and your tastes). There
is quite a bit of that around, in particular, there is a lot of
_Playboy_-style female furry pin-up art. There is also some hard-core
het furrotica that manages to be somewhat tasteful. I personally don't
have that much interest in or knowledge of XXX-material, but I'd advise
you to check around on the different artist's websites, as they often
have portfolios or prints for sale.
One thing I think we're lacking is erotica that's romantic and is about
a relationship, rather than just being anonymous couplings of anonymous
anthros. As well, much of the erotica relates to on-line MUCK
relationships, which are hard to universalize. It's almost like private
erotica.
And, yes, I do see much of what's available as being rather fetishistic.
Maybe it makes someone happy, but it does nothing for me. At some of the
more extreme points, you wonder how *anyone* could be turned on by some
of the stuff. Tread carefully is my advice. However, it is important to
realize that there's a wide cross-section of sexualities in furry fandom
and furry lifestyle circles. They have a right to explore their
interests too (as long as they're not illegal or something). Perhaps we
see proportionally more of that kind of diversity because it's not
available in the mainstream media, and even in anthro fandom that's not
the type of thing most pro furry artists do when they do erotica.
Cheers;
Sun-stone
Sun-stone
> Well, that's my point. I know a heck of a lot more than 10 men and
> even the
> ones with steady girlfriends or wives are predominantly bisexual. The
> sad
> fact is that among my 300+ friends, maybe 20% are female (that number
> is
> boosted by my non-furry Faire/SCA/LASFS friends). Of the remaining
> men, I
> think I can count a sum total of 5 genuine heteros.
There is definitely a large percentage of homosexuals in furrydom. That
can't be denied. However, it's also an exaggeration to deny that there
are a large number of het fans and lifestylers too. I know of at least
twice that number of straight males right here on a.l.f.
Perhaps the percentage of bisexuals or homosexuals is higher on the
MUCKs. The male-dominated atmosphere of the MUCKs and the centrality of
TS to MUCK life makes it clear that most guys who want to TS are going
to have to TS with another guy. I'm not on the MUCKs myself, so I'm not
entirely sure on that.
Anyway, my point is -- lots of us "breeders" here too. Whatever turns
folx cranks is all right; no need to justify it. There's room for all of
us. =^_^=
Cheers;
Sun-stone
Locandez
<umno...@cc.umanitoba.ca> wrote:
>
>One thing I think we're lacking is erotica that's romantic and is about
>a relationship, rather than just being anonymous couplings of anonymous
>anthros.
I enjoy romantic artwork; furries kissing and holding paws. But as you
say...
>As well, much of the erotica relates to on-line MUCK relationships, which
>are hard to universalize. It's almost like private erotica.
Spend enough time browsing furry art homepages and/or art archives and
you'll find romantic pictures of real couples. And to some extent, it does
seem somewhat 'private', as if you're not supposed to imagine yourself as
the fox in the picture, etc.
Locandez
--
My -real- email address is: lyndale (at) argonet (dot) co (dot) uk
A blank copy of the 'Furvey'; and information, documents and reference
material relating to alt.lifestyle.furry and the furry lifestyle culture
can be found at my website: www.argonet.co.uk/users/lyndale/lotcaf/
Furry Yahoo, 450+ links: www.argonet.co.uk/users/lyndale/lotcaf/yiffle.htm
Kit an Amaideach Sionnach
wrote:
> I don't think that society is becoming more okay with zoos _yet_, but I'd
>agree with you on the -whole- gender/sex thing (gay, lesbian, bisexual,
>transvestite, transexual, androgony, transgender, house husbands, working women,
>'lad-ettes', the 'New Man', effeminate/gentle men, butch/assertive women and
>anything else that disrupts the way we see the 'two' sexes...).
<bit o snipping>
This Fox's Opinion ...
The only sane policy in a insane world ... is just to keep your nose
where it belongs. What YOU do behind closed doors, as long as
everyone/thing involved is consenting, is your now business. ;)
And, as long as there's a bit of tolerance, and you stop if I ask you
to cease something that offends me ... (public necking, etc...) and
not involve me into your activities... I don't have a problem. :)
Yes, this could apply to 'straight' friends, public necking of all
types if you feel uncomfortable .. you know .. 'get a room'.
Anyhoo .. That's my $.43 worth (inflation, you know)
Kit the Fox
Barbarian
>>I just don't get it. If someone likes dick, and wishes to draw dick..
>>Where do the breasts come in? I thought that the whole idea of
>>homosexuality was based around titaphobia, the fear of tits.
>
>You're kidding, right? This brings to mind that sequence from
>...
>me. In fact this is possibly the silliest alleged 'cause' of
>homosexuality I've heard of since Robert Grave's declaration that it
I've known more than one otherwise completely gay man who really liked
breasts. Not sure what that means, other than the fact that homosexuality
most certainly is NOT based around 'titaphobia'.
Barbarian - The Founder of the Barbarian Illuminati
Help Those Who'll Be Left Behind! Contribute to
The Millenium Refugee Fund! (Email for details)
Visit Vinland - http://www.tezcat.com/~brbarian/index.html
David Cooke
>
> Raccoon wrote:
>
> > Personally, I'd like to see some more good 'natural' erotic art of
> > high quality put out there.
>
> Well, you could just buy the latest issue of _Playboy_ and pretend that
> Katerina Witt has kitty ears and a tail. Imagine her as an anthro-puma
> girl. I think that's a splendid idea. (I *would* =^_^=)
Isn't there an airbrush artist specialising in fems with anthro ears
etc - Olivia (?). I'm no expert - I haven't seen the inside of a
Playboy since I stopped going to cub-scout camps.
> > Anyway, Vix with Dicks.. am I the only one disgusted here?
We may never know: I can't see how anyone could agree with you
without violating the posting guidlines themselves.
> One thing I think we're lacking is erotica that's romantic and is about
> a relationship, rather than just being anonymous couplings of anonymous
> anthros.
Well said Sun-stone. Those mindless explicit poses really don't do
much for me.
BTW. Before we leave the subject of herm foxes, why are the genetalia
depicted oriented along the major body axis? Surely a left-right
orientation would be more fun?
David Cooke
--
Mother Nature: Cats, we've have got you down for ... doggy fashion.
Cats: Nya! What about catty fashion?
Mother Nature: No, sorry, dogs got in there first. Its a patent
pending situation. - Eddie Izzard
[ Address munged: replace "repent.SPAM" with "demon.co" to reply. ]
Barbarian
>I remember once going through a mental list of all my male furry
>friends, and couldn't think of a _single one_ who was straight.
>(there is one, actually, but only one, from memory.) Of the 10 males
>I've had the most correspondance with, 4 are gay, 5 are bi, and one is
>straight, as far as I know. As I'm more or less straight myself, this
>certainly isn't due to any sampling error due to my own proclivities.
Oddly enough, I was just thinking of this in the past week, only it was of
my general friend set rather than just the furs. I didn't sit down and
list out everyone that I consider a friend or anything, but I'm pretty
sure that about 75% of my friends are gay/bi/lesbian or transgendered.
It's not like I set out to acheive this ratio or anything, it just sort of
happened. *shrug*
Than again, it could just be that most straight people are boring. ;)
(* Barbarian scampers off as quickly as possible before the straight furs
find sticks to beat him with. *)
CmdrKainS
In article <36463895...@konig.demon.co.uk>, David Cooke
<da...@konig.repent.SPAM.uk> writes:
<snip>
>> One thing I think we're lacking is erotica that's romantic and is about
>> a relationship, rather than just being anonymous couplings of anonymous
>> anthros.
>
>Well said Sun-stone. Those mindless explicit poses really don't do
>much for me.
<nods> I must agree here. To an extent of course. I find spooge to be good, as
long as it's tastefully done spooge. <grin>
>BTW. Before we leave the subject of herm foxes, why are the genetalia
>depicted oriented along the major body axis? Surely a left-right
>orientation would be more fun?
You know, this is a very good question! Only I've wondered why more Herms don't
have the female genitalia above the male. One of my characters is thus, and
it's one of my own personal dreams to be with a fur like this.....Oh yeah, not
supposed to get to explicit here...sorry...<grin>
> David Cooke
>
>
>--
>Mother Nature: Cats, we've have got you down for ... doggy fashion.
>Cats: Nya! What about catty fashion?
>Mother Nature: No, sorry, dogs got in there first. Its a patent
> pending situation. - Eddie Izzard
<chuckles> I like this...
Yiff ya later!
Trace Kern (an other names!)
Amature RPGer turned writer...
Trac...@juno.com
Cmdr...@aol.com
Raccoon
<xH9iKKAacFR2Ew$s...@canismajor.demon.co.uk>
meg...@canis-major.daemon.co.uk (MegaDog the Nettweiler) wrote,
>Some of us would, OTOH, prefer our meals to be served in
>distinctly separate and identifiable courses, rather than
>having everything heaped on the same plate.
Don't you just hate it when your peas mix with the mashed potatoes?
- Raccoon
My -REAL- Email Address:
alt [dot] raccoon [at] usa [dot] net
--
Random site: (Rocket Raccoon Comic Covers)
http://members.tripod.com/~raccoonsite/comics/rocketcovers.html
Raccoon is happily using MicroPlanet Gravity 2.1
"The World's Most Powerful Newsreader!" -no joke-
http://www.microplanet.com
Raccoon
Gender Change is already a major issue and struggle in society, just how
will society react to Species Change?
Sure, yes.. it is well obvious that this will be a major issue with many
people. But I think we will be surprised to find that many of those same
people who are against gender change may not be so much against species
change. The people you'll find battling that war would be groups like
the KKK or any White Power or other race preservation groups, which will
evolve to human preservation groups.
But, I feel that there will also be a great acceptance as well. You see,
all of man kind is in some way influenced by animal. I don't care if
you're a hunter or someone who can't stand animals.. In some part of you,
or some time during your life, you admired atleast one type of animal
because it had an attribute you could only dream of possessing.
Unlike the gender issue, you cannot argue that every person admired an
attribute of the opposite sex. I can say with most certainly that
everyone longs for something they do not have that only an animal is
capable of. Very often, the case is flight.. in which the person would
have admired a bird for possessing that ability.
In most American Indian tribes, people would take names like Running
Wolf, or Soaring Eagle or some such name. Obviously, this person was
inspired by the wolf or eagle. But in no instance in history, I can
safely say that, an American Indian called himself Milking Woman or
Screaming Bitch. *Grin*
Which some how makes me belive that not only will society take more of an
acceptance to many forms of body/animal modification, but after some
time, you may find that it is more common practice than gender change.
So, in conclusion.. I don't think furs who long for a physical change to
an animal type should worry as much as they are. It will ofcourse take
time for the majority of society to accept, but now that people are more
open minded about similar issues which seemed outlandish only decades ago
(women's rights, pro choice, sex change, or even extreme freedom of
expression).. I think we will be in for a nice surprise of a speedy
large acceptance in morphing.
- Raccoon
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> In article <71vgkq$gum$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, khr...@my-dejanews.com writes:
> > the misfits of the misfits: too fantastic for SF fandom, too adult for
> > the Cartoon fandom, too practical for the Fantasy fandom, etc.
> > Furry Fandom, in spite the battle and arguements otherwise, was _
> > organized_ by people who were (on the whole) sexually open,
> > alternative, and creative in their expressions of their interests.
> >
>
> on the other side of the country, and the Twin Cities scene. Your view may be
> slightly skewed, at least if the conditions on the left coast ere properly
> reflected in any way by the infamous "Dr. Pepper file."
I don't know this "Dr. Pepper file" but if it was written by one Dr. Pepper, I
can guarantee you it's skewed in yet another way. It's because of that
tin-plated martinette with delusions of self-importance that I stopped writing
stories for almost a decade. :p
> It wasn't exactly a golden age. At least not for those who weren't part of
> the in-crowd out there. For us it was hard to get art because some people
> tried to control the output and circulation of tenth generation Xeroxes of
> furry art the way Randall Stuckey tried to control the distribution of tenth
> gen copies of Urusei Yatsura episodes.
It's only a 'Golden Age' in the perverted opinion that there was once a
'happier' time than the current one. I was one of those people who many only
know about now _because_ my art was swallowed up into the Black Hole of Garden
Grove and was never desseminated to people outside the group, save only those
pieces I managed to mail off to Ken Sample. To this day, anyone who 'remembers
me' from that time and wasn't part of the PS group seems to remember the art
that I sent to Ken, and he's always been a stickler about not making copies of
other artists' works without permission, so I can only assume they spotted my
art in his binder at some CFO meeting. Again, limited and controlled exposure.
Since Fred Patton created that 'history of Furry Fandom' essay and pretty
much has 'officiated' that the PS was the first area of influence for the
_fandom_ (as versus furriness in general), it is reasonable to conclude that
the flavor of fandom as we see it today is colored by the PS influences in
the early 80's. And I can guarantee you that the members of the PS group were
not listed as "sexually-repressed conservative christian heterosexuals",
thank you.
-- ermine
==================================
home email: KhromatAtInOrbitDotCom
(P.S. The last comment was not meant to slight sexual repressed, conservative,
christians, or heterosexuals in any way. It's just not was the PS was.)
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> khr...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > Well, that's my point. I know a heck of a lot more than 10 men and
> > even the ones with steady girlfriends or wives are predominantly bisexual.
> > The sad fact is that among my 300+ friends, maybe 20% are female (that
> > number is boosted by my non-furry Faire/SCA/LASFS friends). Of the
> > remaining men, I think I can count a sum total of 5 genuine heteros.
>
> There is definitely a large percentage of homosexuals in furrydom. That
> can't be denied. However, it's also an exaggeration to deny that there
> are a large number of het fans and lifestylers too. I know of at least
> twice that number of straight males right here on a.l.f.
Once again I think my words are being misunderstood. I didn't say that there
wasn't a large number of people with heterosexual relationships involved in
fandom. Perhaps a better way of me saying what I'm trying to say is:
FurryFandom was started by a group of non-hetero males. While there have
always been hets in the group, the number _only recently_ has become
significant compared to that of the non-hets.
I consider anyone who is currently in a hetero relationship but can think of
someone of the same sex in an appealing light to _not_ be a het, but rather a
bisexual with a strongly het preference. It's that Kinsey thing, where the
reality is that what I call a 'hardwired heterosexual' is as rare as a n
honestly 'hardwired homosexual'. You may feel yourself a heterosexual that
happens to be tolerant of non-het sexual practices, but chances are that's
because you can at least feel something of an affection (not necessarily
sexual) to the same gender, which puts you somewhere less than hardwired het.
:3
> Perhaps the percentage of bisexuals or homosexuals is higher on the
> MUCKs. The male-dominated atmosphere of the MUCKs and the centrality of
> TS to MUCK life makes it clear that most guys who want to TS are going
> to have to TS with another guy. I'm not on the MUCKs myself, so I'm not
> entirely sure on that.
I'm actually not talking about the MUCKs here. Really. I've been actively
involved in fandom since its inception as a splinter group off of Science
Fiction Fandom -- which in itself had a large male-to-female ratio to begin
with. When I say my 300+ friends, I'm referring to folks I've interracted
with in RL, hung around with and went to movies with and went rock climbing
with, not just at conventions or online. Now that I've got friends who I
only interract with through newsgroups and the MUCKs, I suppose that number
has been bumped to 400+, but I can't vouch for their VR interractions being a
true reflection of their RL preferences, so I can't really count on that.
> Anyway, my point is -- lots of us "breeders" here too. Whatever turns
> folx cranks is all right; no need to justify it. There's room for all of
> us. =^_^=
Oh, I'm not saying there aren't. Heck, I'm _glad_ there are a lot of
'breeders' (if you really want to be called that) floating around now. It
offsets some of the more extreme tendancies of the fandom as a whole
(regardless of current perceptions about how fandom is on the road to
destruction). I'm glad there are more _females_ in this community, too! I
mean, I was one of _five_ females in all Orange County when this little
fringe group crystalized into a separate fandom. A male to female ratio of
35-1 is not good odds, trust me. It's now down to as good as 10-1 which is
still too extreme in my opinion but at least it's more inline with the
Internet Community and other technological interests. :3
I was just countering the arguementative statement that furry fandom was once
filled with heterosexuals and that there's recently been a trend focusing more
on homosexuals. That --historically speaking-- just ain't so.
-- ermine
==================================
home email: KhromatAtInOrbitDotCom
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Tim Gadd
I don't really know whether or not you're right,but it's nice to hear
someone with an optimistic prognosis on that question.
--
Tim Gadd
Hobart, Tasmania
Lupercal .com
@wolf-web
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/1161/
'We see the moon but cannot remember its meaning.'
- Edward Brathwaite
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> > newsm...@207.0.0.1 (Raccoon) wrote:
> > > In article <981105233...@mauser.at.gte.net>, mauser@
> > > kendra.com (Richard Chandler - WA Resident) says...
> > that species of Hyena is appropriate to counter your assumption.
> ^^^^
> Not me.
My pardon, I should have said "to counter your assumption, Raccoon." to have
made it more obvious who I was referring to.
> > > >Yes, men are afraid of vaginas with teeth.....
> > Only because your penis can't bite back. ;3
> > Try using scale-mail condoms next time. OOoh, that texture! :9
> Plated for your protection ... and her pleasure. :-)
Gotta watch out for the lubricant, though... the wrong kind could cause rust!
> I wish I could remember the source of this joke....
> "I knew a guy who was SO selfish. You know those condoms with the little
> ridges that tickle and make 'em squeal? He wears them inside out."
*GIGGLE!*
> > > >... and women are afraid of cavities. :-)
> > ....and impacted wisdom teeth. *ouwwww*
> > > Would you recommend VaginalB or a Reach Brand tooth brush? :)
> > Personaly, I'd use a waterpik. Good hygene and fun at the same time!
> Does that count as Water Sports? :-)
I dunno, but if the guy is using it I'd think it was Mutual Grooming. :3
> > -- ermine (yes, I can wallow in the gutter with the best of 'em)
> ... but you float better. :-)
Well, at least I'll be easy to spot heading downstream.... I wonder if I made
a gater-patterned bikini if I could scare some folks while doing the
backstroke.
(Gee, look! We must be in New York!)
-- ermine (being silly)
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> On Fri, 06 Nov 1998 19:00:35 GMT, khr...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >> Just check out www.isna.org for any questions you folks out there
> >> reading this might have reguarding real herms....
> >
> >I don't lurk there as often as I should... then again, I'm afraid they might
> >not understand me being an psychic hermaph. :3
> I don't understand the concept, either. But I'm ready and willing to
> learn. =};-3
Oh, don't worry too much about it... I'm not feeling masculine enough to want
to have an operation or anything, but occassionally I do feel rather caged in
this girl-body without all the accessories. :p
I'm still looking for the ultimate harness, but it's likely I'll have to just
build the thing.
> >Hmmmm.... a portfolio called Hardcore Hermvixens? I can think of a few people
> >would would snatch it in an instant....
> I can think of a few dozen...
Hmm? Shows you who I don't tend to hang around with. :3
> >But first I'll need to be able to draw it. *sigh*
> I think you have the skills, m'lady. You just need the inspiration.
Which I have a derth of at the moment... *sigh*
-- ermine (hasn't drawn in a decent thing in a month)
khr...@my-dejanews.com
> On Thu, 05 Nov 1998 19:21:43 GMT, khr...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >Well, that's my point. I know a heck of a lot more than 10 men and even the
> >ones with steady girlfriends or wives are predominantly bisexual. The sad
> >fact is that among my 300+ friends, maybe 20% are female (that number is
> >boosted by my non-furry Faire/SCA/LASFS friends). Of the remaining men, I
> >with a female preference, bi with a male preference, bi with no preference,
> >genuine homosexuals, and a couple of "To be determined" (kinda hard to find
> >out your sexual preferences when you've never had sex).
> Is it? I don't think so. First you have to be attracted to someone (real or
> imaginary) and become "turned on" by the thought of having sex with them.
Should I have said "sexually inactive" instead? Would that have changed your
opinion? How about "virgins"? I said what I said because there's an aspect of
being an adult and never having a sexual relation that also speaks of not
knowing _what_ would spark the arousal to have a sexual relationship. I can
fantasize about being mounted by a tiger from now until the day I die -- that
doesn't make me a zoo by the very nature that I haven't _done_ the deed,
certainly not in the opinion of those zoos who actually have an active
relationship. So how will I know that the reality really will be as good as my
fantasy? I don't.
I had never thought of myself as 'bisexual' until someone confronted me to
make me determine who I liked more, and the answer was "depends on the
person".... until I actually took the step and got involved with another
female and found that I was just as happy sharing pleasure with her as I did
with a man, I couldn't honestly call myself bi and feel that I was being true
to myself. Then again, I rarely ever 'called' myself anything before that
point in time. Labels weren't needed; I was _me_. I can look back at my life
and honestly say that I never 'turned' bi, I was always this way... but it
did require the physical act to _prove_ that my heart knows no gender
barriers and I can share physcial affection with friends both male and female
happily.
> If a male never finds other males attractive, and is never aroused by
> thoughts of sex with other males, I'd say that's a good bit of evidence
> that he isn't homosexual or even bisexual, but strictly heterosexual.
But what if that person isn't turned on by _either_ sex. Not males nor
females. How do you define that?
There is also this thing called 'experimentation' that can help someone
determine if their curiousity about women is because of a real attraction or
just because society/parents/peers have told them that's what's expected.
That's part of where the myth that gay men 'just never had a good woman to
change their minds' comes in. While I don't believe in that myth being a
real reason for homosexuality, I do advocate someone trying it with both
genders before locking their opinions and believes into one mode. Several of
my male friends professed to be gay when they really were bisexual -- they
just weren't attracted to any of the particular women in the friends' group.
Once they learned it wasn't women in general but some women in specific, they
realized that they were happier. :3
> So although I've never had sex with a furry (or even a human), I can be
> fairly confident that I'm sexually attracted to certain females of certain
> species, but not any of the males. Hermaphrodites were a bit confusing to
> me, as if my subconscious mind isn't sure whether I should be attracted to
> them or not, with the mixed signals they send, but I've become accustomed
> to them, and respond to their female aspects as to a female.
I personally know someone who is fascinated with hermaphrodites but hasn't
really settled down to examine -why- and to determine if it's just the
novelty of some interesting individuals or if it's truely an appreciation of
the sexual duality.
> >That's not to say that there aren't hardwired hets in this community, but
> >that I just find them the exception rather than the rule. :3
> That's surprising to me, at least. It's hard for me to imagine what males
> find attractive about other males. I've given a lot of thought to the
Again, I didn't say that hetero people didn't _exist_ in fandom. Sheesh, I
really do dispair of having my words stretched out beyond their intentions.
1) There are heterosexuals in furdom. 2) The ratio of non-hets to hets is
very high in furdom, as compared with the general populace. 3) As furdom
promotes tolerance and an open mind towards differences, it will always
attract people who feel the need to be among the tolerant. Sexual
alternatives and religous variations are still actively looked upon with
suspicion in the General Populace of the United States, therefore more of
those interested will continue to be a part of, and influence in, furdom.
Therefore, there will likely always be a greater number of non-hets to hets
within furry fandom, which is all I was originally trying to say.
> Why I prefer narrow waists and some other males don't is something that I
> don't quite understand, but then I can't see what so many males find
> interesting in football either. Personal preferences are strange things. A
> preference for narrow waists makes sense, but why should pointed ears and
> widely-spaced larger-than-human-size eyes be attractive at all? Or tails
> and whiskers on a humanoid figure?
I was raised by a cat. It makes perfect sense to me to be attracted to
something that resembles my parent. :3
-- ermine
Sidhain
>you're a hunter or someone who can't stand animals.. In some part of you,
>or some time during your life, you admired atleast one type of animal
>because it had an attribute you could only dream of possessing.
Er....can I tell ye somehting?
I don't hunt because of oppurtunity but would if given the chance, in order
to obtain food....mind you Id never waste an animal, but I am a carnivore
centered omnivore....I don't hate animals, I care a huge amount for them,
that doesn't derail my biological drive to eat them....
Now I don't have to hunt for my food....and yet I would given the
chance...but never with a gun...
Not my style...as Guns take almost no skill, nor effort to slaughter an
animal, and shows me that those hunters who do use guns do not honor the
spirit of the animal they hunt.
Sidhain
>I consider anyone who is currently in a hetero relationship but can think
of
>someone of the same sex in an appealing light to _not_ be a het, but rather
a
>bisexual with a strongly het preference. It's that Kinsey thing, where the
>reality is that what I call a 'hardwired heterosexual' is as rare as a n
>honestly 'hardwired homosexual'. You may feel yourself a heterosexual that
>happens to be tolerant of non-het sexual practices, but chances are that's
>because you can at least feel something of an affection (not necessarily
>sexual) to the same gender, which puts you somewhere less than hardwired
het.
>:3
>
I have heard this before, and perhaps this is my greats contentianable point
with the whole thing, as I that is me, you know Sidhain, has never thought
of a male at all in any light such as this.
Its quiet odd but tis perhaps the cause of my early homophobia because it is
so utterly alien concept to me that I just don't understand it...so as for
hardwired heterosexuals? Well I am one nothing else is 'right' for me,
nothing else fits....
This is perhaps why I think often when I here arguments of Het vs Homo that
I just ccannot see the other sides validity in opinion because it is like
trying to explain fire to water....
Now fortunatly I grew up enough in the last couple years that I realized I
don;t have to understand, to understand that others are homosexual and like
being that way and even if I feel its wrong its not my right to judge what
they feel is right for them.......that takes a tremendous amount of personal
strength on anyones part to accept anything alien to them, and sometime sI
wish I could inflict what I ahve gone through on others to perhaps give them
a clue...but alas as of yet I cannot do this....someday perhaps...
Kit an Amaideach Sionnach
>Once again I think my words are being misunderstood. I didn't say that there
>wasn't a large number of people with heterosexual relationships involved in
>fandom. Perhaps a better way of me saying what I'm trying to say is:
>FurryFandom was started by a group of non-hetero males. While there have
>always been hets in the group, the number _only recently_ has become
>significant compared to that of the non-hets.
*meow*? Oh? I *didn't* know that... Ah, well, I guess I'm just a
relative newcomer, having been dragg'd into 'furry' formally about 4
years ago on IRC ... :)
And .. Mmm.. 'I guess' ...
>I consider anyone who is currently in a hetero relationship but can think of
>someone of the same sex in an appealing light to _not_ be a het, but rather a
>bisexual with a strongly het preference. It's that Kinsey thing, where the
>reality is that what I call a 'hardwired heterosexual' is as rare as a n
>honestly 'hardwired homosexual'. You may feel yourself a heterosexual that
>happens to be tolerant of non-het sexual practices, but chances are that's
>because you can at least feel something of an affection (not necessarily
>sexual) to the same gender, which puts you somewhere less than hardwired het.
>:3
Oy ... Mm.. *methinks* .. that well .. by default we are at least
slightly het.. Continuation of the species and all. *grin*. BUT ....
that's my IMHO.
>I'm actually not talking about the MUCKs here. Really. I've been actively
>involved in fandom since its inception as a splinter group off of Science
>Fiction Fandom -- which in itself had a large male-to-female ratio to begin
>with. When I say my 300+ friends, I'm referring to folks I've interracted
>with in RL, hung around with and went to movies with and went rock climbing
>with, not just at conventions or online. Now that I've got friends who I
>only interract with through newsgroups and the MUCKs, I suppose that number
>has been bumped to 400+, but I can't vouch for their VR interractions being a
>true reflection of their RL preferences, so I can't really count on that.
*nod* .. Yes, true... :) Scifi is slightly more male dominant.. BUT ..
:) Fantasy tends to attract more females. *smile* .. Sounds like a
good combo to me. *wink*
/me has ceased counting #'s of friends...
>> Anyway, my point is -- lots of us "breeders" here too. Whatever turns
>> folx cranks is all right; no need to justify it. There's room for all of
>> us. =^_^=
>
>Oh, I'm not saying there aren't. Heck, I'm _glad_ there are a lot of
>'breeders' (if you really want to be called that) floating around now. It
>offsets some of the more extreme tendancies of the fandom as a whole
>(regardless of current perceptions about how fandom is on the road to
>destruction). I'm glad there are more _females_ in this community, too! I
>mean, I was one of _five_ females in all Orange County when this little
>fringe group crystalized into a separate fandom. A male to female ratio of
>35-1 is not good odds, trust me. It's now down to as good as 10-1 which is
>still too extreme in my opinion but at least it's more inline with the
>Internet Community and other technological interests. :3
Mm.. I don't know.. on #afd ... (alt.fan.dragons) ... the ratio is
more in line to 1:1 ... *grin* And we count our fems as quite
compyliterate, too. :)
>I was just countering the arguementative statement that furry fandom was once
>filled with heterosexuals and that there's recently been a trend focusing more
>on homosexuals. That --historically speaking-- just ain't so.
ANyhoo, some random comments by the .mil Fox
Kitsune no Kitsune
Farlo
>Than again, it could just be that most straight people are boring. ;)
>
>(* Barbarian scampers off as quickly as possible before the straight furs
>find sticks to beat him with. *)
... but he doesn't scamper fast enough before a rolled-up FAQ impacts
the back of his head! *Whump!*
-------------------
Farlo m>*_*<m
Urban Fey Dragon
Standard XXXX
@abac.com XXXX
-------------------
Kit an Amaideach Sionnach
wrote:
>Er....can I tell ye somehting?
>I don't hunt because of oppurtunity but would if given the chance, in order
>to obtain food....mind you Id never waste an animal, but I am a carnivore
>centered omnivore....I don't hate animals, I care a huge amount for them,
>that doesn't derail my biological drive to eat them....
*laugh* ... It's called 'hunger'. :)
>Now I don't have to hunt for my food....and yet I would given the
>chance...but never with a gun...
When food is handily provided.. it's not a worry.
If it's my means of survival ... *grin* .. Anythign goes, methnks. :)
Guns, Arrows, Knives, Polearms, Pit-Traps, .. or even bare claws and
teeth. I don't like guns because they're non-reusable .... (and
consume more resources, than, say, an arrow) .. but I get my food
witht he means that provide the most safety for me, and the most
surety of providing food.
>Not my style...as Guns take almost no skill, nor effort to slaughter an
>animal, and shows me that those hunters who do use guns do not honor the
>spirit of the animal they hunt.
Guns take skill. Trust me. *g*
And you honor the spirit by makeing the most you can out of the animal
hunted.
Kit
Raccoon
<72720p$aib$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
khr...@my-dejanews.com (khr...@my-dejanews.com) wrote,
> Sun-stone <umno...@cc.umanitoba.ca> wrote:
>> There is definitely a large percentage of homosexuals in furrydom. That
>> can't be denied. However, it's also an exaggeration to deny that there
>> are a large number of het fans and lifestylers too. I know of at least
>> twice that number of straight males right here on a.l.f.
>Once again I think my words are being misunderstood. I didn't say that there
>wasn't a large number of people with heterosexual relationships involved in
>fandom. Perhaps a better way of me saying what I'm trying to say is:
>FurryFandom was started by a group of non-hetero males. While there have
>always been hets in the group, the number _only recently_ has become
>significant compared to that of the non-hets.
Blah. Prove it.
>I consider anyone who is currently in a hetero relationship but can think of
>someone of the same sex in an appealing light to _not_ be a het, but rather a
>bisexual with a strongly het preference. It's that Kinsey thing, where the
>reality is that what I call a 'hardwired heterosexual' is as rare as a n
>honestly 'hardwired homosexual'. You may feel yourself a heterosexual that
>happens to be tolerant of non-het sexual practices, but chances are that's
>because you can at least feel something of an affection (not necessarily
>sexual) to the same gender, which puts you somewhere less than hardwired het.
Sorry, But I must disagree.
It should only be obvious that by my starting of the Vix With Dicks
thread that I am not only a (you call it) 'hardwired heterosexual' with
absolutely no dick affection.. but someone who can only tolerate homo-or-
bisexual because that is what is accepted nowdays. While the mass
majority of hets are on a 'cease fire' treaty with homos...( I say this
in the kindest of ways because I think it is infact true, since the major
het argument is that 'gays keep their gayness to themselves' , 'we'll
accept whatever is done behind closed doors', this is a cease fire'. )...
I'll follow the shoe and let homo-bi's have their way.
This in no way makes me more gay or bi, it only means that I will
tolerate their presence so long as I am not having to constantly look
over my shoulder to make sure my butt's being looked at, or otherwise.
I speak this strongly only because you suggest something that is
extremely outlandish. Most hets would not stand by and do nothing, if
doing that nothing meant they were gay. I think that your suggestion
would only spark 'rainbow wars' and raise gaybashing awareness.
-Raccoon
>> Perhaps the percentage of bisexuals or homosexuals is higher on the
>> MUCKs. The male-dominated atmosphere of the MUCKs and the centrality of
>> TS to MUCK life makes it clear that most guys who want to TS are going
>> to have to TS with another guy. I'm not on the MUCKs myself, so I'm not
>> entirely sure on that.
-
>I'm actually not talking about the MUCKs here. Really. I've been actively
>involved in fandom since its inception as a splinter group off of Science
>Fiction Fandom -- which in itself had a large male-to-female ratio to begin
>with. When I say my 300+ friends, I'm referring to folks I've interracted
>with in RL, hung around with and went to movies with and went rock climbing
>with, not just at conventions or online. Now that I've got friends who I
>only interract with through newsgroups and the MUCKs, I suppose that number
>has been bumped to 400+, but I can't vouch for their VR interractions being a
>true reflection of their RL preferences, so I can't really count on that.
Do you live in a gay community? Ahh, that explains it.
No, the furry het:gay-bi ratio has been for years being a majority of
hets. I can say this with a most certainty because I've lived Furry only
on the net and not within my RL het community.
>> Anyway, my point is -- lots of us "breeders" here too. Whatever turns
>> folx cranks is all right; no need to justify it. There's room for all of
>> us. =^_^=
-
>Oh, I'm not saying there aren't. Heck, I'm _glad_ there are a lot of
>'breeders' (if you really want to be called that) floating around now. It
>offsets some of the more extreme tendancies of the fandom as a whole
>(regardless of current perceptions about how fandom is on the road to
>destruction). I'm glad there are more _females_ in this community, too! I
>mean, I was one of _five_ females in all Orange County when this little
>fringe group crystalized into a separate fandom. A male to female ratio of
>35-1 is not good odds, trust me. It's now down to as good as 10-1 which is
>still too extreme in my opinion but at least it's more inline with the
>Internet Community and other technological interests. :3
True, the male:female ratio is quite high. But take into consideration
just what brings people into Furry Fandom. In most cases, either the
person is an artist or follows art, or the person is on the net and in
many cases finds Furry through MU*'s which are largely Male simply
because
not as many Females find interest in black&white text.
In the words of my great mother, "What the hell is this anyway? How can
you read ALL that with it scrolling so fast?"
>I was just countering the arguementative statement that furry fandom was once
>filled with heterosexuals and that there's recently been a trend focusing more
>on homosexuals. That --historically speaking-- just ain't so.
>-- ermine
Argue on, I believe otherwise. Yee must not forget, one is not gay/bi
unless they label themselves as such. And you are labeling every het who
doesn't bash gays, as being a gay. So I think your numbers are off.
- Raccoon
My -REAL- Email Address:
alt [dot] raccoon [at] usa [dot] net
--
Random site: (Rocket Raccoon Comic Covers)
http://members.tripod.com/~raccoonsite/comics/rocketcovers.html
Raccoon is happily using MicroPlanet Gravity 2.1
Raccoon
<EQgffFAo...@canismajor.demon.co.uk>>In article <MPG.10aca942c...@news.yiff.net>, Raccoon
><newsm...@207.0.0.1> writes
>>In article <981105233...@mauser.at.gte.net>, mau...@kendra.com
>>(Richard Chandler - WA Resident) says...
>>>Haven't seen the followups yet, but I wager someone's going to mention the
>>>female hynea. (Forgetting that it's only one subspecies of hyena,
>>>and not all of them).
>>
>>Yes actually, there are quite a few mentionings.
>>But thats about as significant as the fact that raccoons have a penis
>>bone.
>
>Ah, yes... check out http://www.luckymojo.com/RaccoonPenis.html
>for evidence of what can be done with the bones once their
>original owners have finished with them...
Been there, done that :)
And um, I'm not going back!
:: Raccoon instinctively crosses his legs at this point. ::
Raccoon
<19981109021925...@ngol03.aol.com>
cmdr...@aol.com (CmdrKainS) wrote,
>In article <36463895...@konig.demon.co.uk>, David Cooke
><da...@konig.repent.SPAM.uk> writes:
>>BTW. Before we leave the subject of herm foxes, why are the genetalia
>>depicted oriented along the major body axis? Surely a left-right
>>orientation would be more fun?
-
>You know, this is a very good question! Only I've wondered why more Herms don't
>have the female genitalia above the male. One of my characters is thus, and
>it's one of my own personal dreams to be with a fur like this.....Oh yeah, not
>supposed to get to explicit here...sorry...<grin>
>Cmdr...@aol.com
Hmm, interesting dream. If your partner could have a vigina above their
penis, would you want your penis above your vigina? Or would it work out
better for doggy style? :)
Yea, just think of all the many great positions lost from this.
Kimba W. Lion
said...
khr...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>Labels weren't needed; I was _me_.
But, when you said:
>I consider anyone who is currently in a hetero relationship but can think of
>someone of the same sex in an appealing light to _not_ be a het, but rather a
>bisexual with a strongly het preference. It's that Kinsey thing, where the
>reality is that what I call a 'hardwired heterosexual' is as rare as a n
>honestly 'hardwired homosexual'. You may feel yourself a heterosexual that
>happens to be tolerant of non-het sexual practices, but chances are that's
>because you can at least feel something of an affection (not necessarily
>sexual) to the same gender, which puts you somewhere less than hardwired het.
It sounded like an argument I've heard lots of times, but which never
really sat well with me. (Maybe it's the definition of "hardwired" that I
don't get.) First, you're using non-sexual affection to define a
specifically sexual characteristic; second, it seems a bit contradictory
with what you said elsewhere:
>I can
>fantasize about being mounted by a tiger from now until the day I die -- that
>doesn't make me a zoo by the very nature that I haven't _done_ the deed,
>certainly not in the opinion of those zoos who actually have an active
>relationship.
mm... Not sure where I'm going with this; on the one hand we've got
labels, on the other, shades of gray. There can't be a good match. Maybe
I'd be less confused if I knew what your definition of "hardwired
heterosexual" is. Sorry if I missed it.
Kimba
(strictly monogamous, so this is all academic anyway :) )
Ocelot Bob
wrote:
<Raises Glass of Josta in Agreeance> Here, here! If it don't bother anyone, go
ahead and do it, but if it do bother someone, do it where it won't bother anyone
and don't tell them about it. It's a very basic rule, and it would solve a lot
of problems, plus, we could get rid of a lot of silly rules and laws in society.
Ocelot Bob, Insane Heretic| News Flash: Invisible man arrested
OcelotKen @ Yahoo.com | for indecent exposure. Film
Member MLHA | at eleven.
-------------------------------------------------------
http://members.tripod.com/~antidexterous/index.htm
Ocelot Bob
>>>Now, what will happen if technology would give us the fur we long
>>>for?
>> There will be a lot of opression, and some acceptance, the same with anything
>> that is new and different
>
>Sure, I just wonder how many will pop up out of nowhere that, like
>us, wish to have the body of another species or to be an anthropomorph.
>Something like that happened when surgical gender changes became
>possible. Gender dysphoria (though I learned that the word "dysphoria"
>is misleading, the dysphoria or even depression is a result, not the
>cause...) was AFAIK hardly known before. As soon as the technology
>was available the phenomena came apparent to the public.
>
>How many species transidents are out there too feared (about themselves
>or the reaction of their social environment) to admit it? How many
>do not have any clue what's "wrong" with them, what's going on? My
My estimation is a lot. Before I found this newsgroup, I didn't know what was
going on with my life, why I felt the way I did. Knowledge is a powerful tool
in finding out in what is wrong with yourself. One's beliefs are based upon
what they know and what they've experienced, so I will have a much different
take on this compared to someone else my age who didn't go through all of the
experiences I went through. Knowledge is a double-edged sword. Some people use
their experiences to make their lives better, others use it to make it worse.
>estimation is that the rate is 10% below the one of gender transidents,
>at least when talking about the extreme case someone is completely
>the different species. There are *far* more persons feeling partially
>part of another species, just like there is a huge amount of people
>that do not feel entirely male or female but something in between.
>
Yup. It comes with being an intelligent being, one sees the stereotypes and
prejudices and realizes that they aren't that kind of person, and they want to
change how they appear to reflect who they are.
>>> Will psychiatrists, medics and surgeons be willing to support
>>>us?
>> There are support groups for transsexuals, and I assume that there will be the
>> same with transspecials
>
>Let me rephrase that: Will those "specialists" be willing to use the
>technology on us? Or will they say "this is sick/silly/sin, we
>will not do anything to make their dream come true"?
>
There are those who think transsexuals are silly/sick/sinful, yet they are
allowed to be who they are. Unfortunately, our species doesn't have a very good
record of acceptance, and though we try to think ourselves as open-minded, there
are very few of us who actually are, however, they are out there, and do exist.
>>>Will the society even allow us to be *us*?
>> See above. It may be an underground market, but there it will be there
>
>Yes, but what will happen? Most likely in the American and European
>society trans-speciests will end in psychiatry or jail, in some states
>probably the poor furson will get killed right away as "an insult against
>God".
>
It's one of the few reasons I am glad to live in California, because it's a
little more forward-thinking than most states. Sure in a lot of places,
transspecials will be attacked for being different, but there are going to be
places where they are allowed to live an accepetd existance. Am I saying they
are going to be liked? No. All I am saying is that there are going to be those
who will accept.
>>>How about side effects of the operation?
>> There probably will be side affects as the mind gets used to the new form, but
>> like transsexuals, the change won't happen overnight, it'll probably take years
>> in order to make sure that this change is right.
>
>What will happen to the personality within this period? I know that
>several gender transidents get severe depressions by the way
>the law (in many states) enforces exactly one way to physically become
>the correct gender, regardless what that means to the person going
>through that process. If the person breaks down within this process
>it will be taken as a proof that the person is not what it claims
>to be.
>
Unfortunately, the law is occasionally wrong. Other processes are routinely
swept under the rug because for the financial or emotional gains of a few,
powerful people who dislike a concept, so they make it as difficult as possible.
>>>How great will our former life and its problems influence us?
>> As much as you want it to. I hear of stories of transsexuals who start
>> completely new lives after their surgery, and those who carry on as they were
>> before, only checking the other gender box.
>
>Of course both is possible, the problem is that the "old" life remains,
>and looking back it will remain *one* life, though with different
>phases. Of course you can say then was then and now is now, but you
>cannot deny that your past existed. For me it is important to
>evaluate as much as possible in advance "what do I lose, what do
>I win". What use it is to get the body of a wolf but with the lifetime
>lasting knowledge that I wasn't really meant to be what I had become?
>Sure I will be more content with me being "complete", but on the other
>hand I will remain -- and know it -- that I'm different from other wolves.
>
On the other hand, perhaps you gain the knowledge of being what you were meant
to become. Sometimes obstacles are placed on one's path so that they can
appreciate what they become in life.
>> for its members. Nature wasn't a fool in designing minds. Tenacity is built
>> into almost every species to adapt and break away from adversity.
>
>On the other hand there are good reasons why society sets boundaries.
>Not every path you believe is right is good for you and others. On the
>other hand society sets so many stupid and utterly wrong standards...
>(The neo-liberalism AKA "the-strongest-shall-survive" ideology the
>business world is trying to force down the throat of society just for
>an example)
>
I agree, there are some boundaries that should be set up, but there is very
little in this world that should be banned for the common person. Too often,
people see one thing and they are disgusted by something, and they go about
stopping it, when there is no real damage done by the person performing the act.
>> From the advances in technology that have happened within the last few years,
>> it's looking like it may just happen. DNA testing which used to take a month or
>> longer can now be done over the weekend, we're implanting genes into animals to
>> produce something they normally wouldn't produce, and science has even
>> discovered a way to regrow brain tissue. These are interesting times.
>
>Yes, the technology to build an anthropomorphic form (out of a grown-up
>person) is there, though its parts are not well tested and someone needs
>plug all that together. They can already grow skin tissue outside the
>body, I believe they are working on how to activate hair follicles.
>With a bit of gene technology it could be done to get a real pelt
>instead of this stupid human hair, I guess. The work on an artificial
>muscle fiber is very promising, a prosthetic tail probably in reach.
>Controlling electronic devices through a brain implant is in the
>very beginning to work. Quite a lot of the remaining adjustments of
>the outer appearance can be done by cosmetic surgery. This all plugged
>together will not make a real wolf (for example), but it is sure better
>than nothing. Granted, it is all ACME stuff for now.
>
The innovator is rarely the person who gets the credit. The credit usually goes
to the person who ses the last step and puts it all together. If one were to
perform a cosmetic alteration on the person, and resequence the genes just in
the sexual areas, you could get the same results of complete genetic rebuilding
without many of the side affects. Dreams and nightmares have a nasty habit of
becoming reality.
>> I for
>> one would be willing to leave this human existance, but that's just my opinion.
>
>Well, if magic would be available ("*poof* now you are a wolf") I
>would not hesitate... Not one second.
>
Well they say that technology that's far enough advanced is indistinguishable
from magic...
These are interesting times in so many ways.
David Formosa
>On Mon, 09 Nov 1998 15:33:44 GMT in article
><72720p$aib$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>khr...@my-dejanews.com (khr...@my-dejanews.com) wrote,
>>FurryFandom was started by a group of non-hetero males. While there have
>>always been hets in the group, the number _only recently_ has become
>>significant compared to that of the non-hets.
>
>Blah. Prove it.
She is talking about her experence. it comes preproven.
[...]
>Do you live in a gay community? Ahh, that explains it.
>No, the furry het:gay-bi ratio has been for years being a majority of
>hets. I can say this with a most certainty because I've lived Furry only
>on the net and not within my RL het community.
This stament dosn't seem to flow logicaly. Could you plase refrase it?
[...]
> MU*'s which are largely Male simply
>because not as many Females find interest in black&white text.
Hence the compleate an utter falure of romance novels.
--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://www.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
Barbarian
>That's part of where the myth that gay men 'just never had a good woman to
>change their minds' comes in. While I don't believe in that myth being a
>real reason for homosexuality, I do advocate someone trying it with both
My counter to that has always been that straight men 'just never had a
good MAN to change their minds'! Oddly enough, the people who mouth that
line usually have a hard time following my logic. Go fig.
>I was raised by a cat. It makes perfect sense to me to be attracted to
>something that resembles my parent. :3
Hmmm. I can see that, but I know that it's not always the case. My
mother is very skinny, almost unhealthily so in my opinion. However, my
attractions are at the other end of the scale - big is most definately
beautiful to me. I can see a skinny person as attractive, but they just
aren't 'my type'.
Perhaps this is part of being a dog? I seem to be a German Shepard /
Newfie mutt ... maybe it's just natural for me.
David Formosa
[...]
>> Is it? I don't think so. First you have to be attracted to someone (real or
>> imaginary) and become "turned on" by the thought of having sex with them.
>
>Should I have said "sexually inactive" instead? Would that have changed your
>opinion? How about "virgins"? I said what I said because there's an aspect of
>being an adult and never having a sexual relation that also speaks of not
>knowing _what_ would spark the arousal to have a sexual relationship.
While I understand the arugement hear I have a problem with it. I
regard myself as a toonaphile, but I have never had the pleasure of
makeing love to a toon. Now if your arguement was true then I would
never be able to know if I was realy a toonaphile.
[...]
>I was raised by a cat. It makes perfect sense to me to be attracted to
>something that resembles my parent. :3
Alot of furs have made staments of this, I wonder how meany of us have
been raised by animals?
Barbarian
Kit an Amaideach Sionnach <kit...@kami.com> wrote:
>Oy ... Mm.. *methinks* .. that well .. by default we are at least
>slightly het.. Continuation of the species and all. *grin*. BUT ....
>that's my IMHO.
Ah - minor point here. You're confusing the urge to reproduce ("... hey,
I'd like a little me to screw up like my parents did to me ...") with what
you look for in a mate. (Or if you want to go to a different level, what
you look for in a sexual partner ... the two aren't always the same.)
I know far too many gay (men or women) couples who've fought long and hard
to adopt or get artificial insemination to think that just because you're
homosexual you don't want children. (The flip side being that all hets
want children, an argument that I think you'd have a hard time making.)
Raccoon
<slrn74efuv....@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
dfor...@zeta.org.au (David Formosa) wrote,
>Perhaps
[...]
>I'm trying to say:
[..]
>She
[....]
>dosn't seem to flow
>the compleate an utter falure of
>my spelling.
If you read my article again, without snipping it to shreds.. I'm sure
it'll make more sense.
- Raccoon
Farlo
>I am not only a (you call it) 'hardwired heterosexual'
Same here.
>with absolutely no dick affection..
I'd miss mine =)
>No, the furry het:gay-bi ratio has been for years being a majority of
>hets. I can say this with a most certainty because I've lived Furry only
>on the net and not within my RL het community.
It's been my (limited) experience that the majority of the fandom is
Heterosexual. There are lots of gay/bi people, tho.
Brad Austin
> mau...@kendra.com (Richard Chandler - WA Resident) wrote:
> > In article <71vgkq$gum$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, khr...@my-dejanews.com writes:
> > > 2) Furry Fandom has _always_ drawn the fringe interests. We were
> > > the misfits of the misfits: too fantastic for SF fandom, too adult for
> > > the Cartoon fandom, too practical for the Fantasy fandom, etc.
> > > Furry Fandom, in spite the battle and arguements otherwise, was _
> > > organized_ by people who were (on the whole) sexually open,
> > > alternative, and creative in their expressions of their interests.
> > >
> > > Nope, you're wrong. Not in furry fandom. See arguements above.
> >
> > I dunno, while you were hanging out with the PS crowd, it was a bit different
> > on the other side of the country, and the Twin Cities scene. Your view may be
> > slightly skewed, at least if the conditions on the left coast ere properly
> > reflected in any way by the infamous "Dr. Pepper file."
>
> I don't know this "Dr. Pepper file" but if it was written by one Dr. Pepper, I
> can guarantee you it's skewed in yet another way. It's because of that
> tin-plated martinette with delusions of self-importance that I stopped writing
> stories for almost a decade. :p
Here's the "Dr. Pepper file", a document attempting to describe
and explain furrydom, covering both Furry Fandom and aspects of
what is now known as "furry lifestylism" (though not by that
name), that was apparently first written sometime in late 1989
or early 1990 and then went through several generations of
annotations. Note that none of the footnotes or commentary are
mine; they are all inherent components of the document now known
by the name "Dr. Pepper file".
----------------------------[Begin Dr. Pepper file]----------------------------
This was extracted from a Usenet article and explains fairly well the
concept of "what is a Furry". The commenting editor's name has been lost
in the sands of time and several moves between systems.
===========================================================================
I got into furry fandom about one or two years ago, and I've been sort of
watching from the sidelines ever since, slowly increasing my involvement.
What *is* furry fandom? Well, the following article (from Watts Martin's
FurByte, issue 1, March 1990) says it about as well as anything else I've
seen.
***************************************************************************
What is a Furry?
For a first issue, this seems like a good question to address.
Unfortunately, it seems to be one that's caused more than a little
disagreement among furry fans. Part of this article was taken from an
"about furry fandom" file that has made its way to several BBS's
across the country. If you're not a furry fan, this should give you
an idea of what "furry fan" implies, and might let you know whether or
not you really are a furry fan and just don't know it. If you are a
furry fan and you don't like this definition, feel free to complain
about it (several people I know already have). I have been told that
the file was originally written by "Dr Pepper," but have never
actually seen it with credits attached. I have assumed both this file
---
* It was in fact written by "Dr Pepper"
---
and the messages from the DeathStar BBS which follow it are in the
'public domain,' as they were originally found without copyright
notices on public-access BBS's and that, therefore, their authors do
not mind if people outside these boards have the chance to read them
in this form.
---
* This's what I've gathered, too... if not, I'd like to hear about it.
---
First--now that the question's been brought up, just what IS a
furry, anyway? Simply enough, a furry is a funny animal taken
seriously. Roger Rabbit, Bugs Bunny, and Mickey Mouse are funny
animals; they are anthropomorphic, mostly behave like people, and are
pretty much the cartoon equivalent of character actors. Usagi
Yojimbo, Omaha the Cat Dancer, and the original Teenage Mutant Ninja
Turtles are furries (even though turtles don't have fur); they are
---
* Then there's always Domino Chance, Space Roach extraordinare...
---
even more anthropomorphic in appearance than the funny animals are,
but behave like crosses between humans and animals. They are sapient,
and just as much "people" as any fictional character, but they aren't
presented as animals for laughs. Most furries tend towards their
human aspects, their "species" not all that important. Some are more
strongly tied to the animals they are to, perhaps 'regressing' under
stress (for example, Vincent on "Beauty and the Beast," who is perhaps
the 'furriest' creature known to audiences--a nonhuman, animalistic
character portrayed in a fairly realistic manner).
---
* Well, I think this all depends on how you define furries... I would've
* said the late Jim Henson's best-known creations (Kermit the Frog, Big Bird,
* etc) would also fit the bill, and they're certainly better-known...
---
Even if you have no idea who Usagi Yojimbo and Omaha are, you
could be a furry fan and not know it. Most funny animal fans are also
animation fans, and there is a lot of "crossover" between devotees of
anime (Japanese animation) and the furry world. If you enjoy old
Warner Brothers cartoons or Disney films such as "The Fox and the
Hound," "Lady and the Tramp" or "Oliver and Company"--or other
animated films such as Bluth's "The Secret of NIMH" or Nelvana's "Rock
and Rule"--there is at least a little furry in you. There have also
been furry novels, of course, ranging from Andre Norton's _Breed
to Come_ to Olaf Stapledon's _Sirius: A Fantasy of Love and Discord_
and Steven Boyett's recent _The Architect of Sleep_. A furry "biblio-
graphy" has been batted around on some California BBS's; perhaps this
will find its way into a future issue of FurBytes.
However, there is another use of "furry," a way of referring to a
funny-animal/furry fan. For most people, this is where the idea gets
fuzzy, if you'll pardon the expression. I have not been involved with
fandom all that long--I have not attended that many conventions, and
my first one was the 1986 WorldCon in Atlanta--and so have been mostly
an outside observer in the "fandom is a way of life" versus "fandom is
just a goddamn hobby" debate. I have been around long enough to run
into people on both sides, ranging from the casual observers to the
fanboys from hell to people who really do seem to make fandom a
profession. As to whether or not any of the rest of this describes a
"typical furry fan": from what I've seen, "typical fan" is an oxymoron.
Furry Fandom Observed (credited to Dr Pepper)
This is an attempt to concisely explain furrydom to the curious.
I am not myself a member of this group, this is what I have been told,
have heard and read, or just observed in action. This is by no means
complete but it is a start towards understanding.
1. In the simplest terms furry fandom is the admiration of creatures
that have both human and animal traits. Since such do not actually
exist, this is considered a subgenre of science fiction/fantasy
fandom.
2. One aspect of this is simply liking so called "funny animal"
cartoons and comics, such as Bugs Bunny, Tom & Jerry, et al. Such
creatures are not conceived with much logic, and it is their human
references that are important, the animal shape is more for humor than
anything else.
3. Then there is the envy of certain traits observed in animals. Such
traits include speed, strength, grace, beauty, cunning and of course
possession of fur. Most of the animals people are attracted to are
mammals, hence the term "furry," but nothing is excluded.
4. This leads to the desire to put oneself in the animal's place so as
to be able to really experience what it is like to be so gifted.
5. But most people want to have this experience with human type
sapience. This leads to the postulation of various kinds of
creatures.
6. Real animals that somehow can think and talk. A lot of folklore
and mythology is mined for source material for these. Of more recent
vintage is the idea of using biological or digital technology to
augment ordinary creatures.
7. Sapient analogs of certain animals. These include parallel
evolution on other worlds, human genetic intervention, and additional
evolution, say due to massive radiation.
8. Gene spliced creatures made to order. These can range from
customized humans to totally new beings made with the desired
combination of traits.
---
* These two (7 and 8) seem to be the most popular variants at this point,
* particularly the gene-splicing concept.
---
9. Furry fans like to read and write stories involving any of those
creatures, admire and create art featuring them, and play games that
include them. This includes playacting, such as answering the phone
with a "meow."
10. But some people are more than just furry FANS. These people are
simply called FURRIES.
11. Furries are those who get into the concept so much that they
deliberately develop alternate personas that actually have those
animal traits. Each persona takes on a life of its own in a sort of
controlled schizophrenia such as ventriloquists and fantasy gamers
practice. [Ed. Note: I don't agree that role-playing of any sort,
furry persona or Dungeons and Dragons, should accurately be called
"controlled schizophrenia," any more than an author should be
considered schizophrenic if she has the ability to create and maintain
believable characters in a novel.]
---
* Not my note, though I partially agree with the comment... however, I do
* think there's a degree of multiple-personality involved, too. There's
* a difference between creating characters in a novel, and writing their
* adventures, and writing (or participating in) the adventures of an
* "alternate you"...
---
12. Furries have many different ways to relate to their furry
personas. Some think of them as totally different beings who happen
to live inside them. Others see them as simply minor varients of
themselves. And still others see them as vehicles for normally
suppressed aspects of their own personalities.
---
* This is interesting in that it can work both ways... I've seen several shy
* people create considerably more expressive furry personalities (I suspect
* all sorts of deep psychological reasons behind this, but that's another
* subject...), but on the other hand one of the incarnations of my personna
* is a considerably more shy, less outgoing variant of myself, and I use it
* to some extent to remind myself of who I was, and why I changed...
---
13. The most interesting way of viewing a persona, though, is to see
it as some sort of mystical entity that can confer benefits which are
represented by the animal shape. Some relate this to a witch's
familiar or to the spirit guardian of the Plains Indians. This can be
taken literally, that is with actual belief in such entities, or in a
Jungian fashion, that the animal shape is a symbolic key to unlock
unconscious abilities.
14. Fine. So what do furries do with their personas? They
communicate through them. The definition of the persona determines
how the furry will express themself. This can be quite different from
how the actual person does it. This may facilitate communication
under circumstances in which the person would normally feel inhibited.
15. In fact it has been claimed that, despite the impression one might
get about the persona as "putting on a mask," the use of the persona
actually enables a person to be more genuinely themselves. That's
because the persona has more freedom, not being subject to the
stifling layers that social convention puts on us mere humans.
16. Long as we're getting free of social conventions, we might as well
get to sex. Most furries are interested in the concept of sex between
themselves as themselves, or themselves as their personas, with other
such creatures. This differs from simple bestiality in that the
partner is another mature sapient. So regardless of the species
difference, it remains full participation sex between two people.
17. Dear me, did I say two? Two is another social convention. A lot
(most?) furries like group sex.
18. In fact, social conventions seem to go down like dominos once one
gets started. That may be why so many (most?) furries are bi.
---
* This's hardly restricted to furry fandom, though; I've noticed it both in
* fandom in general, and (interestingly enough) on computer networks... I
* suspect a large part of the reason is that the people involved tend to be
* somewhat more intelligent, open-minded (in *some* things, anyway :), and
* comfortable with themselves than the population at large.
---
19. Let us now pause while the straight and monogamous folks come out
from wherever they just dived into for cover.
20. Ok, didn't mean to chase anyone off. The point is that wherever
may be on the spectrum, from full fledged furriness to just a reader
of "Panda Khan," there is a place in furrydom for you.
[end of file]
For another perspective, we switch coasts from the California
furry BBS's to the now-defunct DeathStar BBS of Washington, DC. The
difference between east coast and west coast furry boards is quite
noticeable: west coast systems tend to have a lot more 'involved'
people wandering around them, but are also often harder to follow for
a newcomer. California boards usually assume everyone knows what's
going on; on DeathStar, there were only two or three people who had
involvement with "furrydom" outside that BBS itself; despite the
apparent disdain both the system and the furry SIG operator were held
in by many West Coast fans, it was one of the few boards which delved,
even briefly, into the philosophy of furry fandom:
11 [006] *NRB* "Furriness"
By: KEN COUGAR-DS189
On: Fri May 12, 1989 3:00 PM
LR: Sun May 14, 1989 1:59 PM
-- 6 Responses --
Furriness. Why you guys need to categorize it and analyse it; I don't
know. What it is: I can only tell you what it is for me.
For me, it's an expression of parts of my personality that normally
wouldn't get an outlet. It's Role-Playing that doesn't use a set of
rules. For me, it's mostly an expression of myself for the people I
care for.
Having a furry persona allows me to look at things; Life,
relationships, mostly social activities, from a different perspective.
But, it's a creative tool. I use my personas to test the
possibilities of relations. An aggressive persona would handle things
one way. A timid one, another way. Games. For me, it's an elaborate
game.
I've been a Furry for as long as I can remember in my role-playing
days. It's a way to be different. I feel I'm better able to accept
the differences in other people because of it.
It's hard trying to explain this. I'm not making too much sense to
myself, cause it would take most of this hard-disk to write down all
of the little nuances and quirks of why I am what I am. It's a part
of me. It's a part of me that really doesn't and shouldn't need
explaining. I think you guys should get away from worrying about why
and live with it. Have FUN with it. THAT is the jist behind it.
It's FUN.
coug'r
- Response 1 Of 6 -
By BACKSLASH-DS147
On Fri May 12, 1989 9:24 PM
Actually, I understand what you are getting at. My own furry allows
me to view myself from the outside, and is also a reflection/extension
of my own personality.
Yeah, having a furry is great if you tend to be shy or not very
social. I've made a lot of friends though furry fandom and have yet
to really lose one. And like you said, it's fun!
---
So, have I scared anyone off with this? Hopefully not. Speaking
of a "furry philosophy" may at first strike one as odd, but I'm sure
that if one was willing to take the time, volumes of philosophical
claptrap could be produced by talking to any serious fan, regardless
of his or her personal hobbyhorse. Furry fandom is more openly
sensual than a lot of other fan groups I've seen, except for some of
the "Beauty and the Beast" 'zines that have popped up recently (and if
Vincent isn't a furry, I don't know what is), but this doesn't have to
be considered a negative.
***************************************************************************
-----------------------------[End Dr. Pepper file]-----------------------------
a res. | Artax
r p c | (Brad Austin)
t x o |
ax@i m | Oceanside, CA USA
Barbarian
>Or, for some of us, the only partner we've got. :)
>
>Reminds me of a bit of dialog from a story I read by a friend of mine:
>
>"I feel so low after masturbating." "Oh? Why?" "It just hits me that the only
>person with low enough standards to have sex with me, is me." :)
Low standards? Nah, it's that you're the only person to meet your high
standards!
Masturbation can be some of the most overall satisfying sex to be had.
You always know if the person you were with was happy with your
performance. You are completely in control of the situation. You don't
have to worry that another person is going to suddenly take the whole
scene off in a direction you never intended to go. It's available most
anytime, anywhere (watch that last one, though!). There's absolutely no
risk of disease, pregnancy or unwanted relationships!
(Gee, there goes my chance of ever being Surgeon General of the US.)
And you don't need any special props!
Kimba W. Lion
feel like it describes me, for example.) Dunno why it should be
"infamous". Thanks, Brad. Always interested in historical stuff.
>As to whether or not any of the rest of this describes a
>"typical furry fan": from what I've seen, "typical fan" is an oxymoron.
Especially when it's well-written historical stuff. :)
Kimba
Sidhain
\
>Oh? By default.. meaning .. it's *KIND* of hard for two people of a
>gender to contribute to the gene pool .. no?
>
Er wrong quiet easy 2 sexes Male/Female
5 genders....
Difficult for people of the same sex to reproduce (impossible wihtout
outside means) but genders? Easy and it happens...
David Formosa
[...on masterbation...]
>And you don't need any special props!
I happen to like my special props thankyou.
Kit an Amaideach Sionnach
Bob) wrote:
><Raises Glass of Josta in Agreeance> Here, here! If it don't bother anyone, go
>ahead and do it, but if it do bother someone, do it where it won't bother anyone
>and don't tell them about it. It's a very basic rule, and it would solve a lot
>of problems, plus, we could get rid of a lot of silly rules and laws in society.
Well .. *grin* .. I won't go *THAT* far. :) The laws, I mean ...
*grin* .. Or at least, a *different* set of silly rules and laws.
Kits
Kit an Amaideach Sionnach
wrote:
>>Oy ... Mm.. *methinks* .. that well .. by default we are at least
>>slightly het.. Continuation of the species and all. *grin*. BUT ....
>>that's my IMHO.
>
>Ah - minor point here. You're confusing the urge to reproduce ("... hey,
>I'd like a little me to screw up like my parents did to me ...") with what
>you look for in a mate. (Or if you want to go to a different level, what
>you look for in a sexual partner ... the two aren't always the same.)
Oh? By default.. meaning .. it's *KIND* of hard for two people of a
gender to contribute to the gene pool .. no?
And... No I'm not. ;) What I'm looking for in a mate *IS*, in part,
how I want my offspring to be like .. who I want to help contribute
with my offspring. :)
Which is *DIFFERENT* from what I want from sex. :) Which I'm not *TOO*
intrested in ... exept for with aforementioned mate, of course. :)
>I know far too many gay (men or women) couples who've fought long and hard
>to adopt or get artificial insemination to think that just because you're
>homosexual you don't want children. (The flip side being that all hets
>want children, an argument that I think you'd have a hard time making.)
Nope. NOPE. NOOOPPPEE ... :) Artificial stuff is one thing... ;) but
it's not 'really' you and you're mate's offspring, is it? :) From the
genetic point of view, at least. Not what I mean ..
And as for not wanting children ... most hets *I* think who don't want
children are more like .. 'don't want children *YET*' ...
Ah, well.
Kits
Kit an Amaideach Sionnach
wrote:
>On 9 Nov 1998 19:17:51 GMT in article
><slrn74efuv....@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
>dfor...@zeta.org.au (David Formosa) wrote,
>If you read my article again, without snipping it to shreds.. I'm sure
>it'll make more sense.
>
>- Raccoon
>alt [dot] raccoon [at] usa [dot] net
WHOA .. CEASE FIRE! CEASE FIRE!!!
*mutter* *mutter* ..
Yes, this means both of you.
Kit
Doodles
>I personally know someone who is fascinated with hermaphrodites but hasn't
>really settled down to examine -why- and to determine if it's just the
>novelty of some interesting individuals or if it's truely an appreciation of
>the sexual duality.
While a brief check with the ermine elsewhere confirms that I'm not
the one she's speaking about, I'll be up front and say that I too have
been fascinated by those individuals who have been gifted with the
abilities of both genders. I can't go into details as to how it
happened, but here's a fact.
[Note: This comes from the website of the Intersexual Society of North
America. This, and more, is readily available for the curious to go
and explore and find out more about those who were born with
differences in their gender. It's located at www.isna.org. Those
going there seeing cheap thrills will be dissapointed, those seeking
intelligence will be rewarded.]
Now, according to studies of births reported by obstetricians, a true
hermaphrodite is born for once in every 64,000 births. Please note
that this is _reported_ figures. There's a good percentage which
remain unreported, to save parental embarassment.
The population of the US is presently hovering around 300 million.
That means that there are at _least_ 4,500 hermaphrodites in this
country.
Unfortunately, their lives are not the most pleasant, mainly the
result of confusion over their identity in a world of single-gendered
beings and the pressure of the medical community to 'cure' them,
mainly through painful surgery and drugs.
My interest in them is both as individuals _and_ in terms on the
unique combination of both halves of the human race into one. Of
course I'm crazy. I think that we'd all be better off if we were
_all_ herms....
Unca Spooge
Doodles
>Oh, don't worry too much about it... I'm not feeling masculine enough to want
>to have an operation or anything, but occassionally I do feel rather caged in
>this girl-body without all the accessories. :p
An operation wouldn't be the same, anyway...
>I'm still looking for the ultimate harness, but it's likely I'll have to just
>build the thing.
Egad, remember the _last_ thread we created when discussing the design
of such things... =};-3
>> >Hmmmm.... a portfolio called Hardcore Hermvixens? I can think of a few people
>> >would would snatch it in an instant....
>> I can think of a few dozen...
>
>Hmm? Shows you who I don't tend to hang around with. :3
This may mean that in at least one way, I may be kinkier than you.
Amazing. =};-3
>> >But first I'll need to be able to draw it. *sigh*
>> I think you have the skills, m'lady. You just need the inspiration.
>
>Which I have a derth of at the moment... *sigh*
You and many others. Kese is backing away from the fandom for a while
from burnout, and I've run into other folks. I'm hoping the bad time
is going to be short for you both.
Unca Spooge, sending snugs.
REDOXEN8
>
> > Personally, I'd like to see some more good 'natural' erotic art of
> > high quality put out there.
Well, I don't know about quality, but a good yiffy artist is my friend Todd
Haxen, he only draws vixens, bunnies, and some times dogs, but he does not draw
any "vix with dicks" or anything like that, he likes to make "natural yiffy
art" (too yiffy is you ask me, but not spooge :)
e-mail him for more info at
Turb...@hotmail.com
Redoxen
------------
Furry Christmas 98 is coming on December first to my page!! :)
www.furnation.com
or
http://members.aol.com/redoxen8
Redoxen
--------------
Furry harvest "furs of the fall" is now at
www.furnation.com/redoxen
or
http://members.aol.com/redoxen8
happy furry harvest every fur :)
Raccoon
<36479a5b...@news.primenet.com>
doo...@cheezies.primenet.com (Doodles) wrote,
>My interest in them is both as individuals _and_ in terms on the
>unique combination of both halves of the human race into one. Of
>course I'm crazy. I think that we'd all be better off if we were
>_all_ herms....
>
>Unca Spooge
>
What a dull and gray would that would be. Just think.
o Co Ed locker rooms.. oh wait, there would be no Co to begin with. So
everyone knows what eachother has. (No more 'you show me yours, I'll
show you mine / doctor games?)
o Night clubs would be dead, cause the spouse would always want to tag
along.
o No more His and Hers towels in hotel rooms. Just two "It's".
o Our entire family structure would change. No more Grandmother and
Grandfather, no more Mom and Dad. There would simply be Parental Units,
Higher Parental Units, Peer Units, Nepheunits, and Second Cousunits.
o How would rape cases be solved? "It wouldn't stop when I said no!..
Hay, no IT wouldn't stop when I said no." (They both are found with
seamen from their partner, or stains on both dresses)
o In whole, human sexuality would be screwed. Straight or not, everyone
is atleast a little curious about the opposite sex because they are
different.
This is something I care not to imagine any further. But I'm sure you
get the picture. There is greater balance even though each individual is
balance in themselves. In the whole of the human race, things level out.
-Raccoon
alt [dot] raccoon [at] usa [dot] net
[I wonder if little 8 yearold Timmy who always masturbaits, if it's
parents put one of those cones around it's penis, (like those you put
around a dog's neck) to keep it from screwing itsself. :)]
--
Random site: (Rocket Raccoon Comic Covers)
http://members.tripod.com/~raccoonsite/comics/rocketcovers.html
Raccoon is happily using MicroPlanet Gravity 2.1
"The World's Most Powerful Newsreader!" -no joke-
http://www.microplanet.com
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