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romance IAL's

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Peter Kleiweg

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Apr 23, 2003, 8:30:07 AM4/23/03
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I am interested in IAL's based on romance languages. I know of
Interlingua, Romanova, and Nova Lingua Franca. Are there others?
Can anyone tell me what the status of these languages are, and
how they compare to eachother?

--
Peter Kleiweg L:NL,af,da,de,en,ia,nds,no,sv,(fr,it) S:NL,en,(da,de,ia)
uitleg: http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg/ls.html

Donald J. Harlow

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Apr 23, 2003, 6:41:42 PM4/23/03
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"Peter Kleiweg" <pk...@xs4all.nl> skribis en mesaøo news:Pine.LNX.4.44.03042...@kleigh.nl...

>
> I am interested in IAL's based on romance languages. I know of
> Interlingua, Romanova, and Nova Lingua Franca. Are there others?
> Can anyone tell me what the status of these languages are, and
> how they compare to eachother?
>
There have been quite a few, actually. For those up to about 1930, check out Stojan's "Bibliografio de Internacia Lingvo", if you can find a copy anywhere. Ernst Drezen also discusses several in more detail in his "Historio de mondlingvo", whose third edition was published by Ruthenia in Russia (or Belarus?) in the early nineties. Dulichenko's compendium, whose title I unfortunately can't remember, also includes a number. And you can likely find at least a few names in Mario Pei's "One Language for the World" and Andrew Large's "The Artificial Language Movement", which are in English. (Stojan and Drezen are in Esperanto, though in Stojan's case that's relatively unimportant; I think Dulichenko's book is in Russian.)

Probably the best known are Peano's Latino Sine Flexione, aka Interlingua (not to be confused with Gode's later Interlingua, to which it is IMHO far superior), which, however, was based strictly on Latin rather than its descendants, and Wahl's Occidental (later known as Interlingue, not to be confused ... etc.), which also includes some Germanic elements. I believe that Mitrovich's Inter-Sistemal (which I remember primarily because Mitrovich was a contributor, in his language, to the old "International Language Review") also qualifies, but, like most others (including Romanova and Nova Lingua Franca), it was and remains generally unknown to anyone not an auxlang aficionado (and to most current aficionados, as well).

Ido and Esperanto might qualify as well, at least in terms of vocabulary (Esperanto's root vocabulary is about 60-70% Romance-based, that of Ido somewhat more), but since in both cases the structures derive from elsewhere and the non-root vocabulary is created by rule rather than tradition, you might want to exclude them.


--
-- Don HARLOW
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/don/don.html
http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/

Peter Kleiweg

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Apr 23, 2003, 7:19:40 PM4/23/03
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# aldus Donald J. Harlow :

> "Peter Kleiweg" <pk...@xs4all.nl> skribis en mesaøo news:Pine.LNX.4.44.03042...@kleigh.nl...
> >
> > I am interested in IAL's based on romance languages. I know of
> > Interlingua, Romanova, and Nova Lingua Franca. Are there others?
> > Can anyone tell me what the status of these languages are, and
> > how they compare to eachother?

> Probably the best known are Peano's Latino Sine Flexione, aka


> Interlingua (not to be confused with Gode's later Interlingua,
> to which it is IMHO far superior), which, however, was based
> strictly on Latin rather than its descendants, and Wahl's
> Occidental (later known as Interlingue, not to be confused ...
> etc.), which also includes some Germanic elements. I believe
> that Mitrovich's Inter-Sistemal (which I remember primarily
> because Mitrovich was a contributor, in his language, to the
> old "International Language Review") also qualifies, but, like
> most others (including Romanova and Nova Lingua Franca), it
> was and remains generally unknown to anyone not an auxlang
> aficionado (and to most current aficionados, as well).

I guess I should have stated my question more clearly. What I am
looking for are IALs that focus on modern romance language
exclusively, to function as a IAL between these languages.
Intelligible without study to native speakers of any of the
romance languages. A sort of simplified and standardised romance
without becoming unnatural, using a purely romance grammar and
vocabulary.

Esperanto, Ido and Latino Sine Flexione are not such languages.
Is Inter-Sistemal such a language?

Interlingua (IALA/Gode) was not intended as a romance-only IAL,
but in practice it would do quite well.

Romanova, what I seem to remember, is kind of like Interlingua,
but sticking strictly to romance sources for its derivation.

And Nova Lingua Franca was actually designed as an IAL specific
for romance languages. Easier to learn, perhaps, for non romance
people than Romanova?

I do not know Romanova and Nova Lingua Franca other than from
very short fragments. They may be more correct (for what I am
looking for) than Interlingua, but Interlingua seems like a
fully developed language, with quite some active users.

I have seen only a few people using Romanova. I never saw anyone
using Nova Lingua Franca. I discovered it by accident last week
when I was looking for info on Romanova. For neither language
seem to be much resources available. Do these languages have any
active users today? Are they still being developed?

Paul O. BARTLETT

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Apr 24, 2003, 1:52:42 PM4/24/03
to
On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Peter Kleiweg wrote (excerpt):

> And Nova Lingua Franca was actually designed as an IAL specific
> for romance languages. Easier to learn, perhaps, for non romance
> people than Romanova?
>
> I do not know Romanova and Nova Lingua Franca other than from
> very short fragments.

> I have seen only a few people using Romanova. I never saw anyone


> using Nova Lingua Franca. I discovered it by accident last week
> when I was looking for info on Romanova. For neither language
> seem to be much resources available. Do these languages have any
> active users today? Are they still being developed?

I presume you are referring to Lingua Franca Nova, originally the
work of George Boeree. There is a mailing list on YahooGroups for it.
The last I knew, some people were trying to generate information about
it in as many "national" languages as possible. I am not subscribed at
the moment, so I do not know how active the mailing list is nor what a
current URL for information is. Although I think Boeree intended
Lingua Franca Nova to be a global IAL, it is heavily Romance, and if I
recall correctly (going from possibly faulty memory here), he used
Catalan as a sort of tie-breaker language when making decisions about
vocabulary.

--
Paul Bartlett
bartlett at smart.net
PGP key info in message headers

Peter Kleiweg

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Apr 24, 2003, 2:09:43 PM4/24/03
to
# aldus Paul O. BARTLETT :

> On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Peter Kleiweg wrote (excerpt):
>
> > And Nova Lingua Franca was actually designed as an IAL specific
> > for romance languages. Easier to learn, perhaps, for non romance
> > people than Romanova?

> I presume you are referring to Lingua Franca Nova, originally the
> work of George Boeree.

Yes, that is correct.


> There is a mailing list on YahooGroups for it.
> The last I knew, some people were trying to generate information about
> it in as many "national" languages as possible. I am not subscribed at
> the moment, so I do not know how active the mailing list is nor what a
> current URL for information is.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/
60 members, only 19 messages his year.


> Although I think Boeree intended
> Lingua Franca Nova to be a global IAL, it is heavily Romance, and if I
> recall correctly (going from possibly faulty memory here), he used
> Catalan as a sort of tie-breaker language when making decisions about
> vocabulary.

I think you are right, if I read the text at the website of
Boeree correctly. It *is* intended as a global IAL, but it is
solely based on romance languages. Quoting:

| LFN is based on French, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, and
| Catalan. Other Romance languages were considered but omitted
| for various reasons, most often limited speaking populations
| and, in the case of Romanian, the strong influence of
| non-Romance neighbors. Catalan was included because of its
| centrality, both physically and linguistically, which made
| it a useful "tie-breaker" when word forms were split (as
| they often were) between a French-Italian version and a
| Spanish-Portuguese version.


--
Peter Kleiweg L:NL,af,da,de,en,ia,nds,no,sv,(fr,it) S:NL,en,(da,de,ia)
uitleg: http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg/ls.html

Stem nu: CFV nl.eeuwig.tristesse - Het bitterzoet verlangen.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~pkleiweg/tristesse.html

Crandadk

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Apr 26, 2003, 12:11:50 AM4/26/03
to
On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Peter Kleiweg wrote (excerpt):
> I have seen only a few people using Romanova. I never saw anyone
> using Nova Lingua Franca. I discovered it by accident last week
> when I was looking for info on Romanova. For neither language
> seem to be much resources available. Do these languages have any
> active users today? Are they still being developed?

We added a few hundred entries to the Romanova dictionary a few months ago, so
the total is over 3,700 now. We may add some more vocabulary for foods and
technology at some point. We haven't advertised Romanova much yet outside of a
couple of language newsgroups. I'm curious where you saw Romanova being used,
other than our website of course. Do you have any links?

David Crandall
Project Romanova
http://members.aol.com/dkcsac/myhomepage/romanova.htm

Peter Kleiweg

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Apr 26, 2003, 6:09:14 AM4/26/03
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# aldus Crandadk :

> We added a few hundred entries to the Romanova dictionary a few months ago, so
> the total is over 3,700 now. We may add some more vocabulary for foods and
> technology at some point. We haven't advertised Romanova much yet outside of a
> couple of language newsgroups. I'm curious where you saw Romanova being used,
> other than our website of course. Do you have any links?

I thought it was in europa.linguas, quite a while back. But when
I search the group at Google, all I get is a few reference to
Romanova, but no actual use of it.

Ja Mess

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May 7, 2003, 3:50:34 PM5/7/03
to

Yes, yes, I found this site!
(http://members.aol.com/dkcsac/myhomepage/romanova.htm
) I was searching for some grammar issues in romanian and I found the
site. I was amazed, as I hadn't known anything of that (or any other)
language.
That's why I'm here... there was a reference to this newsgroup on the
website!
I am interested in it...
Who did the romanian translation?
Ja mess :-)

--
Direct access to this group with http://web2news.com
http://web2news.com/?alt.language.artificial

Crandadk

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May 9, 2003, 11:54:44 PM5/9/03
to
>Yes, yes, I found this site!
>(http://members.aol.com/dkcsac/myhomepage/romanova.htm
>) I was searching for some grammar issues in romanian and I found the
>site. I was amazed, as I hadn't known anything of that (or any other)
>language.
>That's why I'm here... there was a reference to this newsgroup on the
>website!
>I am interested in it...
>Who did the romanian translation?
>Ja mess :-)

I did most of it myself after a Romanian acquaintance who was going to do it
couldn't find the time to do it, or lost interest. As I know only a little
Romanian, I'm sure the translation is far from perfect, which is why I have a
note on it asking for anyone who finds errors to let me know so I can make
corrections.

David Crandall
Project Romanova

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