Dishwasher TSP
Pavel314
good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
Half a tablespoon works wonders.
By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
"Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/another-triumph-greens_536862.html
Paul
hal...@aol.com
>
> Paul
well this explains why my dishwasher hasnt been working well for a
long time. i am using 3 times the detergent, upped the water heaters
temperature, and will be buying some TSP from the hardware store
today......
thanks for the heads up.
i will run a couple empty loads rich in tsp since i noticed the inside
of the machine is dirty gritty.....
Tegger
142dae...@k7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
>
> i will run a couple empty loads rich in tsp since i noticed the inside
> of the machine is dirty gritty.....
>
>
TSP contains phosphate, exactly the substance which was recently removed
from dishwasher detergent...
--
Tegger
Pete C.
Phosphates were removed from detergents years ago when they were linked
to algae bloom issues on rivers in the vicinity of sewage treatment
outlets. A load or two in a single dishwasher won't hurt anything.
Pavel314
If you want to clean the machine, just pour in a bottle of vinegar and
run an empty cycle, another tip in response to my earlier poblem. My
wife did that and it worked great. You can also find stuff at the
store to clean it out.
Paul
Vic Smith
wrote:
hehe. Guy at work got me involved in Amway in the early '70's
Didn't last long.
Anyway, they had just banned phosphates in laundry detergent then, but
Amway still had one with phosphates.
Can't remember the details, but this guy thought Amway was real slick
in how they got around it.
Seems the soap companies found a substitute to get clothes clean.
They'll probably find one for dishwasher soap too.
--Vic
Tegger
news:4d52b46f$0$31467$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com:
>
> Tegger wrote:
>>
>> "hal...@aol.com" <hal...@aol.com> wrote in
>> news:ec1e8156-0e0f-4247-b82b-
>> 142dae...@k7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> >
>> > i will run a couple empty loads rich in tsp since i noticed the
>> > inside of the machine is dirty gritty.....
>> >
>> >
>>
>> TSP contains phosphate, exactly the substance which was recently
>> removed from dishwasher detergent...
>
> Phosphates were removed from detergents years ago when they were
> linked to algae bloom
That was laundry detergent. It's my understanding that phosphates were
still used in dishwasher detergents until very recently.
--
Tegger
bud--
Consumer Reports (Sept 2010) ran a comparison of the new dishwasher
detergents. The Weekly Standard article quotes Consumer Reports that
none were as good as one previous detergent, but neglects to mention
that 7 were rated "very good". You might want to look at the review.
There are still products out there that work.
As the article said, phosphates were limited in laundry detergents over
15 years ago.
The Weekly standard article also says the government will "outlaw
incandescent bulbs in a few years", which has often been debunked by Don
Klipstein in this newsgroup. A few very common wattages are banned, but
even for those there are holes.
--
bud--
Tom Mills
Where do you find the true TSP? I looked at my local building products
store and they have TSP but it list on the package Phosphate free.
--
"Pavel314" <pin...@jhmi.edu> wrote in message
news:69e4896f-2940-4ee9...@f2g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
HeyBub
It even worse.
Sometime back I picked up a spray bottle of TSP at the box store. Never
really used it.
Yesterday, I examined the bottle label.
--------------------------------------------
BIIX
Used by contractors since 1957
TSP <---in really big letters
READY TO USE
No-Rinse Substitute
No Odor Pre-Paint Surface Preparation
De-Glosses - Degreases - Cleans
Phosphate-free <--- WTF?
----------------------------------------
HOW can you have a bottle of trisodium phosphate with no phosphate? If
they're saying "TSP" is a brand-name of random letters, why didn't they use
"COKE" or "FORD"? It's only one more letter?
The buggers LIED! That's exactly what they did. Buncha creeps, you ask me!
==================
As to your wife's observation that adding TSP (the REAL stuff, not that
mock-TSP from BIIX) improves cleaning, I can second that opinion.
A comparison of flatware done with the addition of a teaspoon of TSP (the
honest TSP, not the faux-TSP that BIIX sells ) with utensils in the drawer
and washed without benefit of TSP (righteous TSP) showed a remarkable
difference.
The silverware in the drawer reminded one of a "flat" finish in paint. The
newly-washed silverware had a finish similar to "high gloss."
Stormin Mormon
tortured and twisted product names are a crime against
humanity.
Phosphate free TSP? My word!
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Tom Mills" <tsm...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:4d52c294$0$19464$882e...@usenet-news.net...
Pavel314
> Where do you find the true TSP? I looked at my local building products
> store and they have TSP but it list on the package Phosphate free.
> --
>
I got a box at our local, old-fashioned hardware store. Pure tri-
sodium phosphate. I googled "phosphate free TSP" and learned the
following:
"The phosphate-free formulation contains sodium metasilicates."
It goes on to describe how toxic and dangerous this replacement
chemical is.
Paul
WW
"Pavel314" <pin...@jhmi.edu> wrote in message
news:69e4896f-2940-4ee9...@f2g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
The DW detergent we use reads on the box contents>>Sodium carbonate, Sodium
silicate and enzymes. NO phosphates. We have the water from hell. Very
hard, runs about 480 parts per million. Destroys faucets and water heater
systems. However, dishwasher 14 years old and spotless clean as when new.
Gets used about 12 times a week. WW
Tom Mills
safe for the environment" it would not clean.
--
"Pavel314" <pin...@jhmi.edu> wrote in message
news:c5e14b29-3058-4ad3...@d23g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
Bob F
Learn to read. As you said it says.
"TSP READY TO USE No-Rinse Substitute"
It clearly says it is a TSP substitute.
Stormin Mormon
1978. New and improved stuff came in. Reading the label, new
and improved was minus two ingredients.
Environmentally friendly = costs more, and doesn't work very
well at all.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Tom Mills" <tsm...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:4d52db3e$0$14691$882e...@usenet-news.net...
Tegger
$224$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
> Right next to the pseudophedrine free Sudafed? I think some
> tortured and twisted product names are a crime against
> humanity.
>
> Phosphate free TSP? My word!
>
Imagine...
Breakfast-cereal-free breakfast cereal.
Milk-free milk.
Peanut-free peanuts.
--
Tegger
Tegger
$mgs$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
> I found some Bactine first aid spray in the stores, about
> 1978. New and improved stuff came in. Reading the label, new
> and improved was minus two ingredients.
>
> Environmentally friendly = costs more, and doesn't work very
> well at all.
>
A general rule:
If it's expensive, inconvenient, and ineffective, it's "green".
Such is progress.
--
Tegger
Vic Smith
wrote:
You forgot the worst.
Lite beer.
--Vic
Tegger
news:0ve6l65c43lduk7lj...@4ax.com:
>
> You forgot the worst.
> Lite beer.
>
Don't frighten me so.
--
Tegger
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Tegger" <inv...@example.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9E87C8D8...@208.90.168.18...
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Tegger" <inv...@example.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9E87C923...@208.90.168.18...
Stormin Mormon
water? Only five bucks a galon, such a deal!
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Vic Smith" <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote in
message news:0ve6l65c43lduk7lj...@4ax.com...
The Daring Dufas
> On the shelf next to sodium free, calorie free bottled
> water? Only five bucks a galon, such a deal!
>
I prefer low cholesterol gasoline. :-)
TDD
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@stinky.net> wrote in
message news:ij0sfj$107$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
Vic Smith
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On the shelf next to sodium free, calorie free bottled
>water? Only five bucks a galon, such a deal!
Only water I ever bought in my life was in Gila Bend Arizona.
Took my wife and kids on a big driving trip in the van and
we spent a night there in a motel cooled by swamp coolers.
First I ever saw.
I was checking out the swamp coolers when my wife started
yelling from the shower.
"They got the valves on backward!"
I went to check that out.
"The cold water is hot!"
But the valves were ok.
The cold water was hot. Just how it is there.
Real nasty water it was too, full of, I don't know, sulphur?
Seeing I'd blown a little water out the radiator in the desert the day
before, I wanted to top up the overflow tank, but I didn't like the
looks of the free water there.
Bought a gallon of bottled water in a grocery store.
When I was paying the cashier, I said to her,
"You got some scary water here. Never bought water before."
She said, "I been drinking it 40 years and I feel just fine."
I said, "But I'm worried about my van radiator."
She wasn't amused.
--Vic
hal...@aol.com
dishwasher.
I had been adding more and more dish detergent to try and compensate
for its poor cleaning.
the dishwasher detergent companies may like the new law.........:(
Oren
Does it have phosphate or is it the substitute?
Oren
wrote:
>Where do you find the true TSP? I looked at my local building products
>store and they have TSP but it list on the package Phosphate free.
>
Lowes or BORG?
The DAP product in the red bag, not the green bag
MSDS:
<http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=90&SubcatID=17>
RogerT
>
> Where do you find the true TSP? I looked at my local building products
> store and they have TSP but it list on the package Phosphate free.
> --
Where I live, I can by true TSP Trisodium Phosphate at Home Depot, in the
paint department, next to solvents such as Acetone, Xylene, etc.
It comes in a small box and looks like this:
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/productDetails.aspx?SKU=998007334
hal...@aol.com
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 14:34:43 -0800 (PST), "hall...@aol.com"
>
> <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
> >I have a load of dishes with added TSP running right now in my
> >dishwasher.
>
> >I had been adding more and more dish detergent to try and compensate
> >for its poor cleaning.
>
> >the dishwasher detergent companies may like the new law.........:(
>
> Does it have phosphate or is it the substitute?
the real TSP.
They had the substitute, now that would of been a waste of effort.....
my dishwasher is encrusted with gritty a gritty substance inside, I
hope this cleans not only the dishes but the machine too!
I was beginning to feel like I was putting my dishes in the trashcan
to get washed:(
Robert Neville
I think someone posted this link, but if you haven't read it yet, this article
is excellent at explaining what happened:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/another-triumph-greens_536862.html
If you are interested in the chemistry and also why this wasn't any surprise,
this article from Chemical & Engineering News is also excellent:
Robert Neville
>my dishwasher is encrusted with gritty a gritty substance inside, I
>hope this cleans not only the dishes but the machine too!
If it doesn't, you'll need to clean the interior with vinegar (a mild acid), or
that doesn't work, a dilute CLR solution.
BTW - If you read the links provided in another post, you'll discover that the
gel detergents without phosphates perform much worse than the dry detergents.
Robert Neville
>
>The DAP product in the red bag, not the green bag
Or Savogran TSP in the red box, not the worthless substitute stuff in the green
box.
I'm looking for a source for a 55 gallon drum of dry food grade TSP cause you
know the busybodies are going to try to get TSP banned next, at least at the
retail level.
Stormin Mormon
meats".
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Oren" <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:air8l65vggh3me62h...@4ax.com...
>I have a load of dishes with added TSP running right now in
>my
>dishwasher.
>
Does it have phosphate or is it the substitute?
Oren
What's the verdict? Did it clean the machine?
hal...@aol.com
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 15:47:33 -0800 (PST), "hall...@aol.com"
>
> - Show quoted text -
YES, not only were the dishes clean but so was the interior of the
machine:)
I justt got home and will recommend this to everyone.
its amazing nearly all the grit is gone.
I am running a second load of dishes & TSP as I type.
many of the dishes from the last load had been run before and were
still dirty.
thus the additional load.......
Smitty Two
"WW" <cc...@nospambresnan.net> wrote:
> "Pavel314" <pin...@jhmi.edu> wrote in message
> news:69e4896f-2940-4ee9...@f2g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> >A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many
> > good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
> > who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
> > Half a tablespoon works wonders.
> >
> > By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
> > "Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."
> >
> > http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/another-triumph-greens_536862.html
> >
> > Paul
>
> The DW detergent we use reads on the box contents>>Sodium carbonate, Sodium
> silicate and enzymes. NO phosphates. We have the water from hell. Very
> hard, runs about 480 parts per million. Destroys faucets and water heater
> systems. However, dishwasher 14 years old and spotless clean as when new.
> Gets used about 12 times a week. WW
Well, spit it out, what brand is it?
hal...@aol.com
> In article <VKWdnQfLPrPZT8_QnZ2dnUVZ_oudn...@bresnan.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> "WW" <c...@nospambresnan.net> wrote:
> > "Pavel314" <pint...@jhmi.edu> wrote in message
> >news:69e4896f-2940-4ee9...@f2g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> > >A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many
> > > good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
> > > who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
> > > Half a tablespoon works wonders.
>
> > > By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
> > > "Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."
>
>
> > > Paul
>
> > The DW detergent we use reads on the box contents>>Sodium carbonate, Sodium
> > silicate and enzymes. NO phosphates. We have the water from hell. Very
> > hard, runs about 480 parts per million. Destroys faucets and water heater
> > systems. However, dishwasher 14 years old and spotless clean as when new.
> > Gets used about 12 times a week. WW
>
bought at local hardware store
HeyBub
At about $2.50 for a one-pound box, that should be sufficient for more than
100 dishwasher loads (at 1 tsp per load).
Stormin Mormon
something actually works.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<hal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dba4d410-7d6a-4f4c...@d19g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
hal...@aol.com
appear to get stiff or hard:( Noticed it big time yesterday when I
gave my dogs a bath the towels were rock hard. My polo shirts get
inflexible and uncomfy. I have replaced them for that reason. Fabric
softener doesnt make a difference.
This got me wondering iif the same hard deposits I see in the
dishwasher are happening in my clothes washer too?
will post the results:) I tried a load with 3/4 regular dish
detergent 1/4 TSP. its running right now.
WW
"Smitty Two" <prest...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:prestwhich-02671...@mx02.eternal-september.org...
Members Mark. Buy it at Sam's Club. WW
Oren
>I am running a experiment as I type:) For seemingly forever my clothes
>appear to get stiff or hard:( Noticed it big time yesterday when I
>gave my dogs a bath the towels were rock hard. My polo shirts get
>inflexible and uncomfy. I have replaced them for that reason. Fabric
>softener doesnt make a difference.
>
>This got me wondering iif the same hard deposits I see in the
>dishwasher are happening in my clothes washer too?
>
Hard water? Whole house filter, softener?
> will post the results:) I tried a load with 3/4 regular dish
>detergent 1/4 TSP. its running right now.
...you mean laundry detergent and TSP.
hal...@aol.com
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 06:26:54 -0800 (PST), "hall...@aol.com"
yep laundry detergent plus TSP.
My dad has a softener, I never like showeing there because I feel
slimey, and feel like I never got the soap off........
Does that feeling go away after awhile?
yeh pittsburgh water is hard.
aemeijers
I'd try washing the 'stiff' clothes without any soap, a couple of times.
Mebbe do it at a laundromat. I've found that even without softened
water, the amount of soap they say to use on the jug or box is WAY too
high, and it builds up in the clothes and towels and such. A quick check
would be to lay a stiff shirt or towel in the bathtub, and point the
shower at it, and see if suds develop. When I moved into a place that
did have a water softener (apartment), I actually made the manager swap
out the washer, because I thought it wasn't draining right, because
there was still soapy water in the second rinse. Washed everything
twice, the second time without soap, for a month or two, before the
penny dropped, and it occurred to me to use less soap to start with. I
replaced the softener when I moved into this house 5 years ago, and keep
it set as low (non-soft)as it will go, and I get good results only using
about 1/4 of the amount of soap the line on the cap says to use.
--
aem sends...
Smitty Two
"WW" <cc...@nospambresnan.net> wrote:
>
> Members Mark. Buy it at Sam's Club. WW
Hmm, good, thanks for the response. Not a Sam's member and don't have
one in either of my cities, but I'll keep it in mind. Maybe find
something equivalent at Costco.
Oren
>My dad has a softener, I never like showeing there because I feel
>slimey, and feel like I never got the soap off........
>
Think about it. Soft water requires less soap. People call it a slimy
feeling, but don't think they have less soap on them.
>Does that feeling go away after awhile?
Sure, turn the water off, dry with a towel. Then enjoy your fresh soft
skin and girlish figure.
>
>yeh pittsburgh water is hard.
Heck, out here our rain has dirt in it.
Stormin Mormon
dry?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<hal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d2e7c493-b229-46f3...@u6g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
Stormin Mormon
pretty white bubbles all over the laundry room, typically 3
to 4 feet deep.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Oren" <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:urpdl6l48gpnvv83d...@4ax.com...
WW
Look for the same ingredients. WW
G. Morgan
>A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many
>good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
>who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
>Half a tablespoon works wonders.
>
>By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
>"Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."
>
>http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/another-triumph-greens_536862.html
Thanks.
Does anyone know where to buy TSP in bulk online?
Stormin Mormon
http://www.google.com/search?q=43.040,-77.479&tbo=u&tbs=shop:1&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=lf#sclient=psy&hl=en&tbs=shop:1&q=trisodium+phosphate+tsp&aq=1&aqi=g3g-o1&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=42dd9d1c68f04903
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"G. Morgan" <g...@techie.com> wrote in message
news:rrjel61dgimcoq6qk...@4ax.com...
Smitty Two
hal...@aol.com
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, please let us know. Do you clothesline dry, or tumble
> dry?
tumble dry.....
G. Morgan
>> Does anyone know where to buy TSP in bulk online?
>
>Seems McMaster has it.
>
>http://www.mcmaster.com/#trisodium-phosphate-(tsp)/=b0cav5
TY .. all I could find was the fake stuff.
HeyBub
Why go to the trouble? Home Depot has a one-pound box for ~$2.50. One pound
is sufficient for a couple hundred dishwasher loads. (HD also has five-pound
boxes.)
My next purchase of dishwasher detergent will be the powdered kind, then
I'll do the math for mingling the right amount of TSP with the box of
detergent.
Robert Neville
>My next purchase of dishwasher detergent will be the powdered kind, then
Gels are definitely not the way to go.
>I'll do the math for mingling the right amount of TSP with the box of
>detergent.
You raise an interesting point. I did the math and it worked out to about 1
teaspoon per dispenser cup. And in fact, using that amount did make a dramatic
difference in the performance of the dishwasher. But I see see the occasional
bad batch of clean glassware, and if you go back and read one of the two
articles posted earlier in this thread, they talk about phospahtes being up to
1/3 of older formulations. So - time for some more experimentation I think.
Nelly
"Pavel314" wrote in message
news:69e4896f-2940-4ee9...@f2g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many
good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
Half a tablespoon works wonders.
By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
"Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/another-triumph-greens_536862.html
Paul
=====================
TSP wasn't removed from dishwasher detergents, sodium tripolyphosphate was.
If I decide to supplement my dishwasher detergent, STPP is what I’ll use,
and only at the bare minimum effective dose. My detergent cup holds a
little under 2 tb for liquids, and I suppose about 3 tb for powders.
Considering phosphates only made up about 8% of the old detergents, I might
start with 1/4 tsp to see how it goes.
Robert Neville
>TSP wasn't removed from dishwasher detergents, sodium tripolyphosphate was.
True, but TSP is more readily available to consumers than STPP is. The two are
very closely related, but I haven't found a good description of what the
difference is.
>If I decide to supplement my dishwasher detergent, STPP is what I’ll use,
>and only at the bare minimum effective dose. My detergent cup holds a
>little under 2 tb for liquids, and I suppose about 3 tb for powders.
You are measuring by volume so there won't be any difference between liquid and
powder. Using the minimal amount necessary to get good results is good for a
number of reasons.
>Considering phosphates only made up about 8% of the old detergents, I might
>start with 1/4 tsp to see how it goes.
Not 100% of STPP results in elemental phosphorus. If you are interested in the
chemistry, you should read the Chemical and Engineering News article here:
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/89/8904cover.html
The key sentence is:
Added to U.S. dishwasher detergents at up to 35% by weight, sodium
tripolyphosphate (STPP), the main detergent phosphate, was something of a wonder
ingredient, helping to maintain pH, remove food and grease, inhibit corrosion,
and suspend insoluble dirt.
That sentence speaks to weight and not volume, but my guess is that there isn't
a lot of difference between the weight of dry dishwasher deterent and STPP so it
shouldn't matter. It really depends on the chemistry of your water supply. You
could start with a teaspoon of STPP and go up to a tablespoon if required.
Jim Yanik
news:7v5gl61osa7q66ff8...@4ax.com:
I wonder if there's any health aspects of using TSP on the dishes you put
your food on? Does the TSP rinse off completely,or does it leave a residue?
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
JIMMIE
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 12:48:41 -0800 (PST), "hall...@aol.com"
>
> <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
> >My dad has a softener, I never like showeing there because I feel
> >slimey, and feel like I never got the soap off........
>
> Think about it. Soft water requires less soap. People call it a slimy
> feeling, but don't think they have less soap on them.
>
> >Does that feeling go away after awhile?
>
> Sure, turn the water off, dry with a towel. Then enjoy your fresh soft
> skin and girlish figure.
>
>
>
> >yeh pittsburgh water is hard.
>
> Heck, out here our rain has dirt in it.
You live in Oklahoma?
JIMMIE
> dry?
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> news:d2e7c493-b229-46f3...@u6g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
> I am running a experiment as I type:) For seemingly forever
> my clothes
> appear to get stiff or hard:( Noticed it big time yesterday
> when I
> gave my dogs a bath the towels were rock hard. My polo
> shirts get
> inflexible and uncomfy. I have replaced them for that
> reason. Fabric
> softener doesnt make a difference.
>
> This got me wondering iif the same hard deposits I see in
> the
> dishwasher are happening in my clothes washer too?
>
> will post the results:) I tried a load with 3/4 regular
> dish
> detergent 1/4 TSP. its running right now.
Thats a lot of TSP, maybe half that.
Jimmie
Oren
<JIMMIE...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>> >yeh pittsburgh water is hard.
>>
>> Heck, out here our rain has dirt in it.
>
>You live in Oklahoma?
Nevada. If and when it does rain the vehicles have a fine dust left on
the vehicle.
Han
news:Xns9E8BA21DA63EC...@216.168.3.44:
<snip>
> I wonder if there's any health aspects of using TSP on the dishes you
> put your food on? Does the TSP rinse off completely,or does it leave a
> residue?
Your body makes polyphosphates plenty. Don't worry about that. Plenty of
things to really worry about.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Robert Neville
>I wonder if there's any health aspects of using TSP on the dishes you put
>your food on? Does the TSP rinse off completely,or does it leave a residue?
Have been using it for a while and haven't noticed any problems - well, other
than a slight green aura eminating from everyone living in the house, but that
means we could get rid of the night lights. Given there's a couple of rinse
cycles after the wash cycle, I'm not too worried about it.
I also found a couple of sources for STPP. Curiously enough, it comes in three
grades, the highest being food grade, where it's used as a seafood preservative!
Will see how that compares to TSP.
G. Morgan
>> Does anyone know where to buy TSP in bulk online?
>
>Why go to the trouble? Home Depot has a one-pound box for ~$2.50. One pound
>is sufficient for a couple hundred dishwasher loads. (HD also has five-pound
>boxes.)
Last time I looked all they had was the fake stuff, we both live
in HOU so I'll check around some more.
>My next purchase of dishwasher detergent will be the powdered kind, then
>I'll do the math for mingling the right amount of TSP with the box of
>detergent.
That's what I was going to do too, mix it in gallon containers
with tight lids.
Steve Barker
For almost a big box of detergent now I've used the following
combination of procedures with flawless results.
#1. Mixed ONE CUP of TSP with a 75 oz box of Great value power from wal-mart
#2. only fill the cups in the DW about half full
#3. Add one cup of white vinegar to each load
#4. set the dw to "heated wash" even though i run my water heater at 140
and it's about 10 feet away.
I mixed the TSP with the entire contents of powder in a large bowl, with
a large serving spoon, then cut a cross shaped slit in the top of the
detergent box, and put it back in with a kitchen funnel. The box can
then still be used as designed.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
Steve Barker
ok, where do you get this proposed "STPP" ?
Steve Barker
> Robert Neville<do...@bother.com> wrote in
> news:7v5gl61osa7q66ff8...@4ax.com:
>
>> "Nelly"<noplac...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> TSP wasn't removed from dishwasher detergents, sodium tripolyphosphate
>>> was.
>>
>> True, but TSP is more readily available to consumers than STPP is. The
>> two are very closely related, but I haven't found a good description
>> of what the difference is.
>>
>>> use, and only at the bare minimum effective dose. My detergent cup
>>> holds a little under 2 tb for liquids, and I suppose about 3 tb for
>>> powders.
>>
>> You are measuring by volume so there won't be any difference between
>> liquid and powder. Using the minimal amount necessary to get good
>> results is good for a number of reasons.
>>
>>> Considering phosphates only made up about 8% of the old detergents, I
>>> might start with 1/4 tsp to see how it goes.
>>
>> Not 100% of STPP results in elemental phosphorus. If you are
>> interested in the chemistry, you should read the Chemical and
>> Engineering News article here:
>> http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/89/8904cover.html
>>
>> The key sentence is:
>>
>> Added to U.S. dishwasher detergents at up to 35% by weight, sodium
>> tripolyphosphate (STPP), the main detergent phosphate, was something
>> of a wonder ingredient, helping to maintain pH, remove food and
>> grease, inhibit corrosion, and suspend insoluble dirt.
>>
>>
>> That sentence speaks to weight and not volume, but my guess is that
>> there isn't a lot of difference between the weight of dry dishwasher
>> deterent and STPP so it shouldn't matter. It really depends on the
>> chemistry of your water supply. You could start with a teaspoon of
>> STPP and go up to a tablespoon if required.
>>
>
> I wonder if there's any health aspects of using TSP on the dishes you put
> your food on? Does the TSP rinse off completely,or does it leave a residue?
>
If it left a residue, it's not likely they would shine. And THAT is
what we've been missing. Shine.
Robert Neville
>ok, where do you get this proposed "STPP" ?
There's someone on eBay selling 10lb bags of the stuff for about $40 including
shipping. This place also has it for about the same price:
http://www.chemistrystore.com/Chemicals_S_Z-Sodium_Tripolyphosphate.html
The problem with any heavy bulk material like this is that the shipping costs
for small amounts really drive the cost up.
Have no idea how reputable either source is, of course.
Robert Neville
> TSP wasn't removed from dishwasher detergents, sodium tripolyphosphate
> was
Did some further research. It looks like both TSP and STPP have been used as
binders for dishwashing and clothes detergent. STPP is a complex phosphate that
has lower alkalinity and some other beneficial properties that made it the
preferred choice in recent years.
Ashton Crusher
wrote:
>A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many
>good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
>who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
>Half a tablespoon works wonders.
>
>By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
>"Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."
>
>http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/another-triumph-greens_536862.html
>
>Paul
I did a test load yesterday with about a half a tablespoon of TSP in
addition to the regular dishwashing stuff. The one thing that was
different was that baked on chocolate cake residue that previously had
to be scrubbed off by hand after the dishwasher failed to remove it
was almost totally gone.
Stormin Mormon
clothes line dry and my clothes come out soft. Of course,
you may have a high mineral content in your water, hard
water, etc. Did the TSP help your laundry?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<hal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:192da672-4e1f-4397...@y26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Nelly
"Robert Neville" wrote in message
news:sp5hl6pt8e1h33e87...@4ax.com...
==================
And apparently also can be bought in food grade. TSP sales are illegal here,
so I figure as long as I have to order it I might as well get the most
appropriate thing.
Steve Barker
where is "here" ?
Nelly
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
news:jdmdnflYmY2nsMbQ...@giganews.com...
where is "here" ?
====================================
That's what the Ace hardware here in Wisconsin had told me. Out of
curiosity, I went up to the post with the link to the brand of TSP and did a
"where to buy." Looks like I might be able to get some if I'm willing to
make a 120 mile R/T for it. Unless the data was wrong (good possibility),
and it really is a statewide thing.
HeyBub
where is "here" ?
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
====================================
That's what the Ace hardware here in Wisconsin had told me. Out of
curiosity, I went up to the post with the link to the brand of TSP and did a
"where to buy." Looks like I might be able to get some if I'm willing to
make a 120 mile R/T for it. Unless the data was wrong (good possibility),
and it really is a statewide thing.
----
Have it delivered right to your door! TSP is available from Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=tsp&x=19&y=21