Leaking Amerigas Propane Tank,--Amazing Service
SMS
connected to it and the valve was opened. Probably the rubber seal was
bad. I didn't know if Home Depot would exchange it for me since it was
only half full and I had bought it probably nine months ago.
I called Amerigas. The lady on the phone was really nice, but she did
not understand that the tank wasn't leaking except when it was connected
to the hose. She started advising me to not use any light switches, to
put the tank away from the house, to not transport it, etc. She took
down my address and someone came out within an hour with a replacement
full tank at no charge.
I'm still in shock that this whole thing did not involve any arguing,
any excuses, any accusations, any claims that it must be the grill, not
their tank.
Frank
You should also be made aware that they sell 15 pounds of propane in a
tank designed to hold about 20 lbs ;)
G. Morgan
>She started advising me to not use any light switches,
Why?
George
Still in shock about what? They could be the most miserable company in
the world but there are rather large liability issues involved with
flammable gases. They would be absolutely stupid not to quickly respond.
George
It is for the convenience (easier to carry) of those folks who like big
box.
George
Spark--flammable gas?
Stormin Mormon
propane vapors. BOOM!
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"G. Morgan" <G_Mo...@easy.com> wrote in message
news:muvs57led11kh3g2n...@Osama-is-dead.net...
Stormin Mormon
15 pounds in a 16 pounder. Still, comes up short.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Frank" <frankperi...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:j3luha$50q$1...@dont-email.me...
G. Morgan
>
>Older style switches can make a spark, which can ignite
>propane vapors. BOOM!
Outdoors? Highly unlikely.
G. Morgan
>Still in shock about what? They could be the most miserable company in
>the world but there are rather large liability issues involved with
>flammable gases. They would be absolutely stupid not to quickly respond.
If you report a natural gas leak with Centerpoint Energy (Houston area)
they respond within 15 minutes. I don't know if that is a law, or just
their minimum safety response time.
JimT
I have a light switch on my patio about 3 feet from my grill.
SMS
> You should also be made aware that they sell 15 pounds of propane in a
> tank designed to hold about 20 lbs ;)
Well aware of that. I actually never do the exchange anymore because of
this, and no one I know does either. I take the empty tank over to a gas
station for refilling. But I could not take the bad tank there for
refilling, I needed one that worked properly.
Even when refilled to capacity, it's not really 20 pounds, more like
around 18 pounds. They charge $20 to fill it, versus about $17 for a 15
pound exchange, so the cost savings isn't that much for doing a refill.
Bob F
Of course it is. It couldn't be to increase profits.
Stormin Mormon
Of course, the girl was reading canned advice.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"G. Morgan" <G_Mo...@easy.com> wrote in message
news:hf1t571uviu73npp1...@Osama-is-dead.net...
Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
>SMS wrote:
>
>>She started advising me to not use any light switches,
>
>Why?
Because all she heard was "leaking propane" and didn't want his house
to look like this;
http://mohawkvalley.ynn.com/content/top_stories/554051/cause-of-salem-house-explosion-released/?
Better to err on the side of caution, I say. No matter how many
times it is said, folks can be pretty dumb. it was reported that the
folks living in this house had been complaining to the landlord for
some time about a gas leak.
If it was me-- it would have been one call to the landlord. An hour
later I'd have been calling to propane provider and/or fire
department.
Jim
SMS
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:39:28 -0500, G. Morgan<G_Mo...@easy.com>
> wrote:
>
>> SMS wrote:
>>
>>> She started advising me to not use any light switches,
>>
>> Why?
>
> Because all she heard was "leaking propane" and didn't want his house
> to look like this
That's right. They probably have had the riot act read to them regarding
leaks following the nearby San Bruno natural gas disaster last year.
Still, the guy that delivered the replacement tank thought it was pretty
amusing that the customer service person did not understand that there
was no leak when the tank was shut off or not connected to the regulator
hose.
Comparing the rubber seal between tanks, it was very clear that the
cause of the leak was a bad seal.
George
We have NG in our house. Occasionally I would get a whiff of mercaptan
when on the side of the house. I always thought it was the boiler
because it is induced draft and has a purge cycle.
One day the air was really still and the smell was concentrated right by
the meter. I called and said "no emergency, there is a slight smell of
gas by the meter on occasion". Within 10 minutes there were 3 trucks in
front of the house. One guy found there was a tiny leak at the regulator
and used a big wrench to snug the nut. I asked about the quick response
and they said any reported leaks were broadcast by the dispatcher and
all nearby workers were required to stop what they were doing and go to
the location.
Even if the company was the crappiest one on earth the extra liability
is all theirs if someone says "gas leak" and no one responds.
Ed Pawlowski
"SMS" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote
>
> Even when refilled to capacity, it's not really 20 pounds, more like
> around 18 pounds. They charge $20 to fill it, versus about $17 for a 15
> pound exchange, so the cost savings isn't that much for doing a refill.
Still higher than most around here. I pay $12, but most are $17 for a full
tank. I won't do exchanges.
Ed Pawlowski
But many unlikely things do blow up. If the tank was near a basement
window, etc. it could happen. Maybe it was in a garage with lights or
power tools. Propane is heavier than air. Gas people are cautious to the
extreme.
Thomas
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> As I understand, they are limited to 80% fill, which means
> 15 pounds in a 16 pounder. Still, comes up short.
LDS math.
16*80%= 12.8
G. Morgan
That's true. She would have been wrong not to warn him I guess.
G. Morgan
> I asked about the quick response
>and they said any reported leaks were broadcast by the dispatcher and
>all nearby workers were required to stop what they were doing and go to
>the location.
Ah hah. Now I remember, the Centerpoint guy said the same thing.
This one in particular I'm thinking of, I may have saved the families
lives. The leak was on the gas heater in the attic, and the emergency
pilot light extinguisher engaged. As soon as I pulled down the attic
stairs in the scuttle hole I smelled it. I went up for a few seconds to
see if I could determine where it was coming from, but immediately
descended and told the customer to call the gas company. I closed the
hatch and we waited outside. He was there faster than I've seen
ambulances respond.
The gas guy said it was a *very* dangerous situation and it's a good
thing he called.
SMS
15 pounds of propane is about 3.54 gallons.
The tanks can safely hold between 4.5 and 4.6 gallons of propane when
filled to 80% of volume (to allow for expansion)
It's true that the tanks can't be filled to 100% of capacity, if filled
to 100% that would be about 24 pounds of propane. A 15 pound fill is
filling the tank only about 62% full.
Look for the "WC" marking on the tank (water capacity) which should be
47.1 to 47.8 pounds.
Propane Propane
Lbs Tank 80% fill 80% fill
WC Gallons Gallons Pounds
----- ------ ---------- ---------
47.1 5.65 4.52 19.2
47.6 5.71 4.57 19.4
47.8 5.73 4.59 19.5
The place I go fills the tank to about 19 gallons for $20. The exchange
price for 15 gallons would have to be $15.79 or less to be less expensive.
I read that some tank companies are putting magnetic locks on the valves
to prevent people from refilling the tanks.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
What is 20*80%? Sorry, but it's *your* math that stinks.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
>George wrote:
>
>> I asked about the quick response
>>and they said any reported leaks were broadcast by the dispatcher and
>>all nearby workers were required to stop what they were doing and go to
>>the location.
>
>Ah hah. Now I remember, the Centerpoint guy said the same thing.
>
>This one in particular I'm thinking of, I may have saved the families
>lives. The leak was on the gas heater in the attic, and the emergency
>pilot light extinguisher engaged. As soon as I pulled down the attic
>stairs in the scuttle hole I smelled it. I went up for a few seconds to
>see if I could determine where it was coming from, but immediately
>descended and told the customer to call the gas company. I closed the
>hatch and we waited outside. He was there faster than I've seen
>ambulances respond.
Many moons ago I smelled gas in our kitchen. I told my wife to go to the
neighbors, *NOW* and call the gas company. I opened all the windows on my way
looking for the shutoff. Turns out the flex pipe from the 3/4" iron to the
stove broke completely. The gas company was there in very short minutes but
at first they didn't really believe it was a real emergency. The landlord was
pissed but I have no idea why. Maybe he wanted the insurance money.
>The gas guy said it was a *very* dangerous situation and it's a good
>thing he called.
I would guess so!
EXT
"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snetnospam.net> wrote in message
news:v-6dnXZI7Lp6XMPT...@giganews.com...
Here, I fill my tanks at a local Costco. They don't charge a flat rate, they
actually measure the amount of gas they put in a tank and charge for that
amount, the equipment shuts off when the tank is full. If I take several
tanks in at the same time the cost can be different for each tank, although
is may be only pennies as they are always empty when I take them in.
SMS
> Here, I fill my tanks at a local Costco. They don't charge a flat rate,
> they actually measure the amount of gas they put in a tank and charge
> for that amount, the equipment shuts off when the tank is full. If I
> take several tanks in at the same time the cost can be different for
> each tank, although is may be only pennies as they are always empty when
> I take them in.
I've never seen a Costco in the Bay Area that does propane refills. Too bad.
Most of the refill places do charge by the gallon, but they actually
charge less than shows up on the meter, by capping the total cost. The
place I go caps it at $20, even though it would be a bit more for a
completely empty tank.
How much does Costco charge per gallon? I get the feeling that there is
a huge mark-up on propane.
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
Did you miss the part in the OP where the operator DID NOT UNDERSTAND
the situation?
Amerigas deals primarily in large propane tanks for household and
industrial use. She was following standard procedure for a HOUSEHOLD
GAS LEAK.
G. Morgan
>On Aug 31, 3:06 pm, G. Morgan <G_Mor...@easy.com> wrote:
>> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>
>> >Older style switches can make a spark, which can ignite
>> >propane vapors. BOOM!
>>
>> Outdoors? Highly unlikely.
>
>Did you miss the part in the OP where the operator DID NOT UNDERSTAND
>the situation?
No, I overestimated her understanding of it. I would think anyone with
half a clue would get '20 lb. tank' and 'gas grill'.
>Amerigas deals primarily in large propane tanks for household and
>industrial use. She was following standard procedure for a HOUSEHOLD
>GAS LEAK.
Which makes one wonder why he called them instead of the store he bought
the grill from.
Frank
I would have had it refilled but old tank was getting quite rusty as I
keep them outside with the grill, don't use often (tank will last over a
year) and exchange was convenient. Just pissed me off when I saw they
put about 3.5 gal in a 5 gal container. They don't say this but just
give the poundage and I knew specific gravity was about 0.5 which is
about 4 lbs/gal.
I sent a complaint to the state ag's office (Joe/Beau Biden Jr.) here in
DE but that was pissing in the wind.
SMS
> I sent a complaint to the state ag's office (Joe/Beau Biden Jr.) here in
> DE but that was pissing in the wind.
There was already a settlement in a class-action against the companies
that changed to the 15 pound refill. They do state that they only refill
with 15 pounds of propane, but it's very misleading because the tank
size remains the same. It's not like changing the quantity of ice cream
from 1/2 gallon to 1.5 quarts, where it's also a smaller package size.
Stormin Mormon
understand the SITUATION. That said, she was FOLLOWING THE
script that is proabably BY THE PHONE. To make it EASIER to
recite to the CUSTOMER.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<mkir...@rochester.rr.com>
wrote in message
news:8d337516-01e7-42d2...@k15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Ed Pawlowski
"SMS" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote
>
> How much does Costco charge per gallon? I get the feeling that there is a
> huge mark-up on propane.
At BJ's in Mass, it is $3 a gallon for members, $4.20 for non member.
At work we pay about $5 for fill ups for the forklift trucks. My cooking is
propane and a fill up is about $7 a gallon. I have two (I think 50 gallon)
tanks and they come about once a year. Small users get hosed. I could save
a little if I bought my own tanks and regulators.
EXT
"SMS" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:4e5fc2da$0$2166$742e...@news.sonic.net...
I don't remember the price per litre but it averages about $13.00 per
tankfull.
EXT
"George" <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:j3lvc9$b7m$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 8/31/2011 2:10 PM, SMS wrote:
>> One of my propane tanks for my grill would leak every time the hose was
>> connected to it and the valve was opened. Probably the rubber seal was
>> bad. I didn't know if Home Depot would exchange it for me since it was
>> only half full and I had bought it probably nine months ago.
>>
>> I called Amerigas. The lady on the phone was really nice, but she did
>> not understand that the tank wasn't leaking except when it was connected
>> put the tank away from the house, to not transport it, etc. She took
>> down my address and someone came out within an hour with a replacement
>> full tank at no charge.
>>
>> I'm still in shock that this whole thing did not involve any arguing,
>> any excuses, any accusations, any claims that it must be the grill, not
>> their tank.
>
> world but there are rather large liability issues involved with flammable
> gases. They would be absolutely stupid not to quickly respond.
I used to work for a large gas utility. It was standard advise, if you did
not get a response to service, tell the dispatcher that you thought you
could smell gas. That got someone immediately. Gas leaks, gas explosions,
fires caused by gas, are all bad and expensive publicity and were not
tolerated.
I worked designing business forms, and we had a form called "Explosion
Report", it was quickly changed to "Incident Report", but the content was
identical. Just that the word "Explosion" was not allowed even to be
mentioned let alone be printed on a form.
Robert Green
> As I understand, they are limited to 80% fill, which means
> 15 pounds in a 16 pounder. Still, comes up short.
Ah! I am beginning to see why some of your economic and statistical
comments (like your claim that the unemployment rate was 4% when Obama took
office) are mathematically suspect, comrade.
80% of 16 lbs is not 15 lbs.
--
Bobby G.
Stormin Mormon
The other poster said that the propane company he mentioned
was short weighting the twenty pound "nominal" tanks by one
pound. The math illustrates that 80% fill is 16 pounds. I'll
write it on the chalk board: 20 x 0.80 = 16. Therefore, a
short weight tank would have 15 pounds in a 16 pound tank.
I'm sorry you didn't understand what I so clearly wrote.
Stay after class, and clean erasers.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Robert Green" <robert_g...@yah00.com> wrote in message
news:j3s2lb$40n$3...@dont-email.me...
cl...@snyder.on.ca
80% fill of 20 lb container is 16 lbs though. That's 4.23 US Gallons
Robert Green
>
> The other poster said that the propane company he mentioned
> was short weighting the twenty pound "nominal" tanks by one
> pound.
Besides, it doesn't make sense. The tanks are deliberately underfilled to
allow for expansion. So we have some "other poster" that neither shows up
in Google nor my newsreader who made a comment that you didn't bother to
quote that makes your incorrect assertion somehow correct. Hmmm. Sorry
Chris, no sale. Find that alleged message and I'll gladly admit I'm in
error. Just pulling it OOYA doesn't count.
> The math illustrates that 80% fill is 16 pounds. I'll
> write it on the chalk board: 20 x 0.80 = 16. Therefore, a
> short weight tank would have 15 pounds in a 16 pound tank.
but that's about it. Even your attempts to cover your mistake don't make
any sense and yet you think you were "clear." Clear as mud.
> I'm sorry you didn't understand what I so clearly wrote.
> Stay after class, and clean erasers.
reporter when people would complain when quoted verbatim: "That's what I
SAID, but it's not what I meant!!!" If you said it so clearly, then you
shouldn't have to go through a paragraph of double-talk referencing some
other message that I can't find (and you curiously neglected to quote) to
try to explain it. Take a writing course and maybe such problems won't
plague you anymore. (-: Maybe I need the magic Mormon Urim and Thummim
seeing stones to make it clear to me?
You said, plain as the nose on my face:
> > As I understand, they are limited to 80% fill, which means
> > 15 pounds in a 16 pounder. Still, comes up short.
dancing you do. But it IS fun to watch you try to weasel out of your
mistake. Why not just fess up that you made a mistake? People would
actually think better of you for it and not think that you had some
compulsion to be right, all the time, no matter what you actually said. I
suspect inhalation of too much eraser dust trying to prove unprovable
statements.
FWIW, I did find another message questioning your math, so you may *think*
you were being clear, but obviously you weren't:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
From: Thomas <canope...@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 09:02:24 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Thurs, Sep 1 2011 12:02 pm
Subject: Re: Leaking Amerigas Propane Tank,--Amazing Service
> 15 pounds in a 16 pounder. Still, comes up short.
16*80%= 12.8
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/browse_thread/thread/0782cad598744540/329e2a1d82b70eb9?#329e2a1d82b70eb9
--
Bobby G.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
Remnants of earlier message (I don't care to correct your top-post
continuity issues)
Ed Pawlowski
<robert_g...@yah00.com> wrote:
>Besides, it doesn't make sense. The tanks are deliberately underfilled to
>allow for expansion.
they once were. I forget the numbers and never use them, but take a
look next time you go by one of their tank racks and you will see the
difference. Just like the 1.5 quart half gallons of ice cream and the
30 ounce quart jars of mayo, the gas companies are short counting.
Stormin Mormon
gasoline at the pumps?
14 ounce "pound" of axle grease
13 ounce "pound" of pasta and spaghetti
1.5 quart "half gallon" of ice cream
and the list goes on. Fortunately, the Lord Jesus Christ
still offers the same salvation. Hasn't gone to a "dwell
with me in a Motel Six, with some bling" afterlife. Though,
Bishop Notserious from the one diocese said that the
reduction in altar boys has affected things. Some boys
aren't tall enough to reach the candles that need lighting.
"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:5lun97dkha51tf3t6...@4ax.com...
"<<<__ Bøb __>>>"
> I wonder when they will get around to 120 ounce gallons, of
> gasoline at the pumps?
--
"If you voted for Obama in 2008 to prove you're not a racist you'll
have to vote for someone else in 2012 to prove you're not stupid!"
Robert Green
somehow. I really notice this when frozen dinners burn in the microwave
because the cooking times I use were determined on larger packages. Even
worse, they must be cutting back on ingredient quality. My dog will no
longer lick the gravy from the Marie Callender's turkey dinner and she's
been known to eat poop. (-;
Hershey's is even selling chocolate kisses pumped up with air like a sponge
and touting that as a benefit. I'm just taking exception at the alleged
clarity and mathematical correctness of SM's comment:
> > As I understand, they are limited to 80% fill, which means
> > 15 pounds in a 16 pounder. Still, comes up short.
--
Bobby G.
Hell Toupee
> "Stormin Mormon"<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:j3s7r6$t2a$1...@dont-email.me...
>> I'll write this really, really slow. Ready?
>>
>> The other poster said that the propane company he mentioned
>> was short weighting the twenty pound "nominal" tanks by one
>> pound.
>
> What other poster? I searched the thread and saw no mention of it.
> Besides, it doesn't make sense. The tanks are deliberately underfilled to
> allow for expansion. So we have some "other poster" that neither shows up
> in Google nor my newsreader who made a comment that you didn't bother to
> quote that makes your incorrect assertion somehow correct. Hmmm. Sorry
> Chris, no sale. Find that alleged message and I'll gladly admit I'm in
> error. Just pulling it OOYA doesn't count.
There's a class-action lawsuit against them over this issue. AmeriGas
recently settled a class-action lawsuit over a similar claim:
A federal judge approved a $10 million settlement against a company
accused of putting too little propane in its containers.
The settlement in the multidistrict litigation ended multiple cases
filed against AmeriGas Propane Inc., AmeriGas Propane LP and AmeriGas
Partners LP.
The plaintiffs alleged that the cylinders -- the type used for grills
-- contained 15 pounds instead of the 17 pounds of the gas AmeriGas
previously provided. The settlement covers consumers who bought or
exchanged the cylinders between June 15, 2005, and Nov. 30, 2009.
Those with proofs of purchase can recover $5 for each propane tank
they purchased or exchanged during the class period, up to $75. Those
without proofs of purchase can recover $5.
The settlement also subjects AmeriGas to a three-year injunction,
during which the company must take measures to prominently inform
consumers of the actual net weight of propane in its tanks and to
refrain from marketing those tanks as "full."
... The objectors had urged the judge to consider that, under federal
and state laws and regulations, the cylinders should hold 20 pounds of
propane, not the 17 pounds agreed to in the settlement. The objectors'
argument would have vastly expanded the amount owed by AmeriGas.
Both AmeriGas and the other plaintiffs disputed the argument, saying
the objectors had conflated the maximum amount a cylinder could hold
with the amount with which it should safely be filled. Both parties
also said no law requires cylinders to be filled with 20 pounds of
propane.
Fenner overruled the objectors' arguments in his Oct. 4 order.
...The settlement did not affect a related series of lawsuit against
Ferrellgas, the supplier of Blue Rhino propane. Bryan Cave is
defending Ferrellgas.
Stormin Mormon
respect for your observation. You nailed it, and I totally
didn't notice.
""<<<__ Bøb __>>>"" <b.wi...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:ZUYmq.614$nY1...@newsfe14.iad...