Headlights old and new
Fishface
They are the Sylvania halogen type, and the high beams are fine,
but the low beams seem dim by todays standards.
Any ideas short of auxiliary driving lights? Anything else that might
fit or be made to fit? Thanks for any help!
FF
Carl Beyer
"Fishface" <fish...@drift.net> wrote:
Yup. Sylvania is making those xenon globes for older cars now. $900
for the pair...
Carl
--
--
Carl Beyer <coba...@mindspring.com>
Beyer
Gord'n Petrund
>> "Fishface" <fish...@drift.net> wrote in message news:<
>> un54vvi...@corp.supernews.com>...
> Yup. Sylvania is making those xenon globes for older cars now. $900
> for the pair...
Hi, Carl.
We had a kid bring his car into our shop a few weeks back with a set
of those Sylvanis xenon arc lights. He couldn't figure out the wiring
even with the directions. It was pretty easy once we undid his "handy
work", but if you ask me not worth that "extreme" money!! They are
made out of flimsy feeling plastic and spray out light in a smaller
beam than a regular set of sealed-beams. Did not seem like nine
hundred bucks worth of headlights to me. The kid liked the "cool"
purple light they put out. I doubt if he cared if they help him see. I
used to be able to find Ciebe H4 headlights with quartz replaceable
bulbs in all the regular sealed-beam sizes...man those were great. A
ton of light "where you need it" and a sharp cut line at the top of
the low beam so you didn't blare other drivers with light even with
"extra hot" bulbs. The high beams were fire balls too, and they
weren't expensive exp. compared to those sylvania xenon ones. Still
got a set in my Doba and I had a set in the R/T until some idiot in a
chevy backed into it. I heard somebody is importing them again, get
them if you can find them. That's my advice anyway!
Gord'n Petrund
An American in Paris...Texas!
'61' D100 "Dart" pickup
'92' IROC R/T
'76' Cordoba
Jim Warman
pieces...... The old Cibie Z-beams were some pretty decent lights,
especially with the 100 watt hi-beams. So where the hell is Daniel when we
want him....
--
Jim Warman
mech...@telusplanet.net
"Fishface" <fish...@drift.net> wrote in message
news:un54vvi...@corp.supernews.com...
Daniel Stern Lighting
You definitely have one problem - poor beam pattern formation due to the
design of the sealed beams. They waste a bunch of light up in the air
where it backdazzles you in bad weather, and tend to throw a dim, narrow
tunnel of light somewhere out there in front of you.
You may well have another problem - excessive voltage drop in the headlamp
circuit, which will seriously impair the output of *any* headlamps you put
at the ends of the wires.
Fix the first problem with good headlamps. Get Cibies from me or somebody
else (contact me off the group, instructions below, I don't like to wear a
salesman's hat in the newsgroups). Cibie (as the old ads said, "say
'C-B-A'") makes better E-code conversion lamps than Hella does. Skip the
3rd-world junk you can get from JC Whitney or the Ricky Ricer type shops.
Fix the second problem with relays and good heavy-gauge wiring. Big
article and diagrams at http://lighting.mbz.org/tech/how_to/relays . This
also lets you run overwattage bulbs, which still won't dazzle other
drivers if you aim them right, because of the sharp cutoff on low beam. I
run 100/90s ("Hundred over ninety", high over low beam wattage) in my
daily drivers (except my truck, because of its high mounted lamps).
Get the relays, again, from me or someone else.
General notes on lighting for old Mopars:
-Install relays, it is well worth it even if you never run overwattage
bulbs. Stock headlamp wiring has a lot of voltage drop.
-Don't use any headlamp bulb that has any kind of a blue/purple or other
color coating on it. Despite the fancy claims on the packages, these bulbs
do NOT help you see any better!
-Carefully read the comments made a couple messages above this one in this
thread regarding the build quality and beam pattern of the Brand-S Xenon
retrofit. Wish I could say more, but I can't.
-It is easy to upgrade the exterior signalling bulbs to let other drivers
see your brake lamps, turn signals, etc. easier/better.
-Don't let anyone tell you the #330 bulbs for the fender-mounted turn
signal indicators are NS1. They're still being made!
-Ask a lot of questions before you spend any money with anyone.
-Find a vendor who has discounts for Mopar owners. <grin>
--Daniel
TO WRITE TO ME: Remove the headlamp from my return address.
.______DANIEL STERN LIGHTING______.
| http://lighting.mbz.org |
---
dastern "at" vrx "dot" net
Automotive Lighting and Signalling Services
Carl Beyer
Thought about it...
Problem in LA is that everyone is goosing up there lamps. Cops are
going to start cracking down soon I am sure. The Xenon seem to put out
a nice focused beam that keep the cops away... But $900 is really not
worth it. I would rather go your route and just risk the ticket.
Daniel Stern Lighting
> We had a kid bring his car into our shop a few weeks back with a set
> of those Sylvanis xenon arc lights. He couldn't figure out the wiring
> even with the directions. It was pretty easy once we undid his "handy
> work", but if you ask me not worth that "extreme" money!! They are
> made out of flimsy feeling plastic and spray out light in a smaller
> beam than a regular set of sealed-beams. Did not seem like nine
> hundred bucks worth of headlights to me.
Good observations.
> The kid liked the "cool" purple light they put out.
*urp*
> I used to be able to find Ciebe H4 headlights with quartz replaceable
> bulbs in all the regular sealed-beam sizes...man those were great.
<snip>
> got a set in my Doba and I had a set in the R/T until some idiot in a
> chevy backed into it. I heard somebody is importing them again, get
> them if you can find them. That's my advice anyway!
Ditto.
I'm staring over the top of my monitor at a wall full of Cibie headlamps
as I type this.
Steve
> In article <un54vvi...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Fishface" <fish...@drift.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Simply put, the headlights on my '71 Barracuda are not very bright.
>>They are the Sylvania halogen type, and the high beams are fine,
>>but the low beams seem dim by todays standards.
>>
>>Any ideas short of auxiliary driving lights? Anything else that might
>>fit or be made to fit? Thanks for any help!
>>
>>FF
>>
>>
>
>
> Yup. Sylvania is making those xenon globes for older cars now. $900
> for the pair...
>
Please do NOT go near that product...
<rant time...>
Producing an HID headlamp in the standard round and rectangular
footprints for old cars is a GREAT idea. The optics can be better
controlled than in the new-style "aero" headlamps, where every
lens/reflector combo has to be custom-designed and sometimes the optics
suffer for "good looks." I applaud the idea.
However, Sylvania *BLEW* it, because their product is horrible both
optically and mechanically. They're going to give the whole idea of HID
lighting a bad name because people are going to spend an ungodly amount
for their crap lights, and then they're going to realize that a
high-quality Halogen lamp (Cibie, Hella for example) actually would work
a lot better than their $900 halogen.
Its not the fact that they're HID thats the problem, its the fact(s) that:
The lens is plastic, and a piss-poor plastic at that.
-The reflector is so poorly molded that some have visible "orange peel."
this is supposed to be a good-quality optical surface, folks, orange
peel need not apply.
-The samples I've seen were sealed with some sort of material that
appears to out-gas and fog the optics.
- The beam-pattern is the worst I've ever seen. It doesn't even try to
approach the ECE standard, and in fact I don't see how it can possibly
even meet the DOT standards. If you like about a 3-degree vertical
spread with tons of stray light, be my guest.
I wouldn't let my worst enemy drive behind these lights.
</rant>
Sorry, but I vent because I was *so* looking forward to this product,
but it turned out to be such an un-mitigaged LOSER that I can't help but
rant.
Fishface
> You definitely have one problem - poor beam pattern formation due
> to the design of the sealed beams. They waste a bunch of light up in
> the air where it backdazzles you in bad weather, and tend to throw
> a dim, narrow tunnel of light somewhere out there in front of you.
<snip>
Wow, jackpot! Great website! You have given me hope. There
is now light at the end of the tunnel. I just checked my Sylvania
Halogen low/high lamps and they are marked 5005, although my book
says the car takes 5000-- it must have been the part listed in the book.
I'm not sure what if any difference there might be. The low beam drew
1.9 A. at 12.8 V. directly from the battery for a whopping 24.2 watts.
I might get another 4 watts at 13.8 V. No wonder I can't see anything.
It's like wearing sunglasses at night...
FF
Daniel Stern Lighting
> > You definitely have one problem - poor beam pattern formation due
> > to the design of the sealed beams.
> Wow, jackpot! Great website! You have given me hope. There
> is now light at the end of the tunnel. I just checked my Sylvania
> Halogen low/high lamps and they are marked 5005, although my book
> says the car takes 5000-- it must have been the part listed in the book.
> I'm not sure what if any difference there might be.
Originally, your car would have had #4000 and #4001 non-halogen lamps. The
halogen equivalents are #5006 (high/low beam outer) and #5001 (high-beam
inner). Messing around with different sealed beams will not fix the
problem.
> It's like wearing sunglasses at night...
Yeah.
The best, bar none, headlamps for the quad-round system are the Cibie
Complex Surface lamps described here: http://lighting.mbz.org/.csr
They are expensive ($86/ea before discount!) but amazing. I run 'em on my
'62 Lancer.
There are less expensive good conversion lamps if you don't want the
best/most expensive.
Fishface
> Originally, your car would have had #4000 and #4001 non-halogen
> lamps. The halogen equivalents are #5006 (high/low beam outer) and
> #5001 (high-beam inner). Messing around with different sealed beams
> will not fix the problem.
Yes, quite right. I can't believe I screwed-up the numbers from there to
here. Well, I'll never get a job as a parts guy with a memory like that!
I checked the voltage at the headlights-- it lost 1.1V in the wiring! The
relays definitely seem to be the way to go.
> > It's like wearing sunglasses at night...
Which I do, sometimes. I keep them on my head and drop them down
as needed. My eyes seem to be very light sensitive. Any idea if clear
polarized glasses might help cut down on the glare from oncoming headlights
at night?
> Yeah.
>
> The best, bar none, headlamps for the quad-round system are the Cibie
> Complex Surface lamps described here: http://lighting.mbz.org/.csr
> They are expensive ($86/ea before discount!) but amazing. I run 'em on my
> '62 Lancer.
Yikes! $400 or so for headlights and relays. Is that Canadian money?!
Maybe I'll just get two for now. And those won't give the oncoming
drivers a sunburn? And they won't keep flicking their high-beams at
me? Would it be OK for me to blind oncoming drivers who have
poorly-aimed, cheap driving lights if they do it to me first? Please,
oh please?!
> There are less expensive good conversion lamps if you don't want the
> best/most expensive.
My wife gave me that look, so I guess she'll have to get a toy, too...
FF
Steve
> Daniel Stern wrote:
>
>>The best, bar none, headlamps for the quad-round system are the Cibie
>>Complex Surface lamps described here: http://lighting.mbz.org/.csr
>>They are expensive ($86/ea before discount!) but amazing. I run 'em on my
>>'62 Lancer.
>
>
> Yikes! $400 or so for headlights and relays. Is that Canadian money?!
> Maybe I'll just get two for now. And those won't give the oncoming
> drivers a sunburn? And they won't keep flicking their high-beams at
> me? Would it be OK for me to blind oncoming drivers who have
> poorly-aimed, cheap driving lights if they do it to me first? Please,
> oh please?!
I'll back-up Dan's claims about the Cibie CSRs. They're AMAZINGLY good-
I prefer them to any other headlamp I've ever driven behind, including
good HID units.
If you buy two, get the low beam units and get good regular halogen
high-beams and run them with relays (Dan- is that new GE halogen
high-beam unit on the market yet?). You will NOT blind oncoming traffic-
these lamps put more light where it should go (down on the road) and
*less* goes up above the horizontal cut-off, so oncoming traffic
actually finds them easier to deal with than your old sealed-beams.
Daniel Stern Lighting
> It's like wearing sunglasses at night... Which I do, sometimes. I
> keep them on my head and drop them down as needed. My eyes seem to be
> very light sensitive. Any idea if clear polarized glasses might help
> cut down on the glare from oncoming headlights at night?
Sunglasses are very dangerous at night, and there is no such thing as
"clear polarized glasses" -- all polarized lenses have a dark tint. It
goes with the territory.
You haven't got a weird medical condition or anything; about 50% of the
population is glare-sensitive. (The other half accuses us of griping about
nothing; we accuse them of pretending there's no such thing as glare).
I like my night driving glasses a *lot*. Had 'em custom made to my specs.
Send me an e-mail and I'll send you the specs.
--Daniel
TO WRITE TO ME: Remove the headlamp from my return address.
.______DANIEL STERN LIGHTING______.
| http://lighting.mbz.org |
---
dastern "at" vrx "dot" net
Automotive Lighting and Signalling Services
NBCS b6f+wg++rp
Daniel Stern Lighting
Fishface:
I'll answer your query in e-mail. I do not like to get commercial in the
newsgroups.
DS
Rich Jordan
Daniel Stern Lighting wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Fishface wrote:
>
>
>
> Originally, your car would have had #4000 and #4001 non-halogen lamps. The
> halogen equivalents are #5006 (high/low beam outer) and #5001 (high-beam
> inner). Messing around with different sealed beams will not fix the
> problem.
> .....
> The best, bar none, headlamps for the quad-round system are the Cibie
> Complex Surface lamps described here: http://lighting.mbz.org/.csr
> They are expensive ($86/ea before discount!) but amazing. I run 'em on my
> '62 Lancer.
>
> There are less expensive good conversion lamps if you don't want the
> best/most expensive.
>
I've had a set of Carello "JOD H4" and the companion H1 high beams on my
Challenger for 15+ years; they were marvelous compared to the stockers,
though the headlight switch couldn't handle high-beam load so I had to
put in a relay (this was with the base 55-60 watt bulbs).
We used the old Cibie 'Z' sealed beam halogens on other cars (at the
time we could not get the small round headlights in that pattern) but
the Carellos had a much nicer, sharper pattern. Very interesting to
know you can get these newer ones in the old quad round size... but do
you have any idea how they compare to my Carellos?
Rich
Daniel Stern Lighting
> I've had a set of Carello "JOD H4" and the companion H1 high beams on my
> Challenger for 15+ years; they were marvelous compared to the stockers,
Yes. Good lamps. About equal to conventional Cibies or Marchals, better
than Hellas or Bosches.
> though the headlight switch couldn't handle high-beam load so I had to
> put in a relay (this was with the base 55-60 watt bulbs).
Original sealed beams were 30/37.5W (high/low outer) and 60W (high-beam
inner). You installed 60/55W high/low outer and 55W high-beam inner. Yep,
relays are mandatory!
> We used the old Cibie 'Z' sealed beam halogens on other cars
Nuh-uh. There was never such a thing as a "Z-beam sealed-beam halogen".
There was the Z-beam, which was an interesting kind of "halfway European,
halfway US" beam pattern (out of production since '91). It was not sealed.
There was also the Cibie "BOBI" of 1980-1984, billed as a "Bulb-type
sealed beam". It was DOT-approved (which meant a rotten beam pattern) and
had a clear glass balloon sealing off the bulb from the reflector and
lens. It only lasted a few years.
> the Carellos had a much nicer, sharper pattern. Very interesting to
> know you can get these newer ones in the old quad round size... but do
> you have any idea how they compare to my Carellos?
As above, the out-of-production Carello JOD is about equal to the
conventional Cibie H4 and H1 (and their out-of-production Marchal
counterparts), and the Complex Surface Reflector Cibies beat *all* of the
conventional parabolic lamps from any maker.
DS
Rich Jordan
> On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Rich Jordan wrote:
>
>>I've had a set of Carello "JOD H4" and the companion H1 high beams on my
>>Challenger for 15+ years; they were marvelous compared to the stockers,
>
>
> Yes. Good lamps. About equal to conventional Cibies or Marchals, better
> than Hellas or Bosches.
>
>
but I really liked the light pattern and visibility with the Carellos.
>>We used the old Cibie 'Z' sealed beam halogens on other cars
>
>
> Nuh-uh. There was never such a thing as a "Z-beam sealed-beam halogen".
> There was the Z-beam, which was an interesting kind of "halfway European,
> halfway US" beam pattern (out of production since '91). It was not sealed.
> There was also the Cibie "BOBI" of 1980-1984, billed as a "Bulb-type
> sealed beam". It was DOT-approved (which meant a rotten beam pattern) and
> had a clear glass balloon sealing off the bulb from the reflector and
> lens. It only lasted a few years.
>
We still have a set on my Dad's truck. Cibie, with a 'Z' sticker in the
center of the lens, the reflector/lens unit is sealed with an H4
element in the back. I'm going totally from memory since the box and
receipts are long gone, but I was pretty certain they were called 'Z'
something, and they definitely have the little glass bubble between the
H4 and the interior.
>
>>the Carellos had a much nicer, sharper pattern. Very interesting to
>>know you can get these newer ones in the old quad round size... but do
>>you have any idea how they compare to my Carellos?
>
>
> As above, the out-of-production Carello JOD is about equal to the
> conventional Cibie H4 and H1 (and their out-of-production Marchal
> counterparts), and the Complex Surface Reflector Cibies beat *all* of the
> conventional parabolic lamps from any maker.
>
>
> DS
>
>
Definitely something to think about. As much as I liked the Carellos,
with the years comes an appreciation for the benefits of even better
headlights, and they do cost less than the average modern unit. Thanks
for the info.
Rich
Daniel Stern Lighting
> >>We used the old Cibie 'Z' sealed beam halogens on other cars
> > There was the Z-beam, which was an interesting kind of "halfway European,
> > halfway US" beam pattern (out of production since '91). It was not sealed.
> > There was also the Cibie "BOBI" of 1980-1984, billed as a "Bulb-type
> > sealed beam". It was DOT-approved (which meant a rotten beam pattern) and
> > had a clear glass balloon sealing off the bulb from the reflector and
> > lens. It only lasted a few years.
> We still have a set on my Dad's truck. Cibie, with a 'Z' sticker in
> the center of the lens, the reflector/lens unit is sealed with an H4
> element in the back. I'm going totally from memory since the box and
> receipts are long gone, but I was pretty certain they were called 'Z'
> something, and they definitely have the little glass bubble between
> the H4 and the interior.
Check the "sticker" (probably actually black paint) in the middle of the
lens again. It's probably actually a "C", not a "Z", and I bet you find
three aiming pips on the outer edge of the lens and the words "BULB TYPE
SEALED BEAM" moulded into the front of the lens.
> Definitely something to think about. As much as I liked the Carellos,
> with the years comes an appreciation for the benefits of even better
> headlights, and they do cost less than the average modern unit.
Yeah, really, eh! Some of the dedicated-to-model lamps are
*heart-stoppingly* expensive...
DS