Drink More Water (Re: supplements to enhance kidney function)
John Gohde
> Your kidneys need a minimal amount of water to function, true
> enough. But the idea that giving them more than that will make them
> function better is about like suggesting that if you squeeze the
> trigger harder, the bullet will come out faster. The only function
> increase you get with drinking more, is the "function" of excreting
> excess water.
You seem to be knowledgable on the subject of water.
If a person eats a healthy plant based diet with plenty of fruit, how many
ounces of water / fluids should a person drink a day? I am interested in a
simple answer, NOT in starting a debate.
> If you drink too much, they simply relax and
> work less.
Would you consider 96 or 100 ounces of water a day, excessive? I am
interested in a simple answer, NOT in starting a debate.
John Gohde,
Natural Health Advocate of the Healing Power of Nature,
affiliated with www.expertcentral.com.
Get your health questions answered from the Natural Health Perspective at:
http://home.att.net/~johngohde/
I am a Natural Health Advocate of pro-active approaches to preventing
"Diseases of Civilization," promoting Optimum Health, and Longevity. The
primary causes of ill health are faulty living habits. A proper lifestyle
and patience will prevent, or correct, all nutritional deficiencies and
Health Conditions. When your health fails, I will suggest an appropriate
Natural Health Protocol.
Steven B. Harris
<johnh...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
>Steven B. Harris <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote ...
>
>> Your kidneys need a minimal amount of water to function, true
>> enough. But the idea that giving them more than that will make them
>> function better is about like suggesting that if you squeeze the
>> trigger harder, the bullet will come out faster. The only function
>> increase you get with drinking more, is the "function" of excreting
>> excess water.
>
>You seem to be knowledgable on the subject of water.
>
>If a person eats a healthy plant based diet with plenty of fruit, how
many
>ounces of water / fluids should a person drink a day? I am interested
in a
>simple answer, NOT in starting a debate.
The simple answer is that nobody knows. You have to make around 20
mL/kg of urine a day to get rid of wastes, but how much extra over this
you need to drink, will depend on how much you have to sweat in the
climate you're in and the work you do, and so on. And the correct
dilution of urine for minimal chance of stone formation isn't known,
either. Nor would this be expected to be simple, since, since it also
depends on the amount of protein in the diet, amount of urate produced
(a product of diet, genetics, hormonal status, etc), and so on. Around
50 mL/kg/day total fluid is generally what is given hospitalized
patients with normal renal and heart function, at bedrest at continuous
normal temp, and this produces urine which is about midrange in terms
of dilution scale (from the most concentrated your kidneys can make, to
the most dilute they can pass).
>> If you drink too much, they simply relax and
>> work less.
>
>Would you consider 96 or 100 ounces of water a day, excessive? I am
>interested in a simple answer, NOT in starting a debate.
No. It takes 2 or 3 times that, for months, to begin to impair your
kidney's ability to concentrate urine. And even that recovers over
time when water is restricted again, so no permanent damage is done.
The worst things that happen from too much water, happen to people who
don't get enough salt. But that won't happen in the range you give.
Chengiz.khan
A healthy 70 Kg man or woman, needs a minimum of 400 ml of urine to be
excreted to get rid of all metabolites in the human body. He/she then gets
rid of 850 ml in sweat and breathing, but produces about 300 ml by oxidising
fat and proteins. So all in all he/she needs a basic minimum of 850ml of
water in his diet, to keep his balance. I will not go into the salt part of
it, as it is only water we are discussing. Is that of any help?
"John Gohde" <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:845isl$8gp$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...
> Steven B. Harris <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote ...
>
> If a person eats a healthy plant based diet with plenty of fruit, how many
> ounces of water / fluids should a person drink a day? I am interested in
a
> simple answer, NOT in starting a debate.
>
John Gohde
> In <845isl$8gp$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> "John Gohde"
> <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> >Steven B. Harris <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote ...
>
> >> Your kidneys need a minimal amount of water to function, true
> >> enough. But the idea that giving them more than that will make them
> >> function better is about like suggesting that if you squeeze the
> >> trigger harder, the bullet will come out faster. The only function
> >> increase you get with drinking more, is the "function" of excreting
> >> excess water.
> >
> >You seem to be knowledgable on the subject of water.
> >
> >If a person eats a healthy plant based diet with plenty of fruit, how
> many
> >ounces of water / fluids should a person drink a day? I am interested
> in a
> >simple answer, NOT in starting a debate.
>
>
> The simple answer is that nobody knows. You have to make around 20
> mL/kg of urine a day to get rid of wastes, but how much extra over this
> you need to drink, will depend on how much you have to sweat in the
> climate you're in and the work you do, and so on
154 pound man / 2.2 = 70 Kg man
20mL x 70K = 1400mL
1400mL / 29.46 = 47.54 ounces of water
47.54 / 154 = 0.3087 ounces of water per pound of weight
John Gohde
> A healthy 70 Kg man or woman, needs a minimum of 400 ml of urine to be
> excreted to get rid of all metabolites in the human body. He/she then gets
> rid of 850 ml in sweat and breathing, but produces about 300 ml by
oxidising
> fat and proteins. So all in all he/she needs a basic minimum of 850ml of
> water in his diet, to keep his balance. I will not go into the salt part
of
> it, as it is only water we are discussing. Is that of any help?
70 Kg x 2.2 = 154 pound man
850ml / 29.46 = 28.85 ounces of water
28.85 / 154 = 0.1873 ounces of water per pound of weight
HOOVER THE MOVER
>Steven B. Harris <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote ...
>> mL/kg of urine a day to get rid of wastes, but how much extra over this
>> you need to drink, will depend on how much you have to sweat in the
>> climate you're in and the work you do, and so on
>
>154 pound man / 2.2 = 70 Kg man
>
>20mL x 70K = 1400mL
>
>1400mL / 29.46 = 47.54 ounces of water
>
>
>
>John Gohde,
> Natural Health Advocate of the Healing Power of Nature,
> affiliated with www.expertcentral.com.
Congratulations John. If we ignore the significant digits issue, you have
successfully calculated the lower bound of water consumption for your
hypothetical man. Note, that Dr. Harris allows that, according to other
conditions, there is no upper bound defined.
Larry
John Gohde
> In article <849lqg$lgd$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "John Gohde"
<johnh...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> >Steven B. Harris <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote ...
> >> The simple answer is that nobody knows. You have to make around 20
> >> mL/kg of urine a day to get rid of wastes, but how much extra over this
> >> you need to drink, will depend on how much you have to sweat in the
> >> climate you're in and the work you do, and so on
> >
> >154 pound man / 2.2 = 70 Kg man
> >
> >20mL x 70K = 1400mL
> >
> >1400mL / 29.46 = 47.54 ounces of water
> >
> >47.54 / 154 = 0.3087 ounces of water per pound of weight
> >
> >
> >John Gohde,
> > Natural Health Advocate of the Healing Power of Nature,
> > affiliated with www.expertcentral.com.
>
> Congratulations John. If we ignore the significant digits issue,
I take that as an admission that you are an Allopath.
> you have
> successfully calculated the lower bound of water consumption for your
> hypothetical man. Note, that Dr. Harris allows that, according to other
> conditions, there is no upper bound defined.
And, see how 64 ounces is more than 47.54 ounces.
And, see how 100 ounces is more than double 47.54.
And, see how we are ignoring water intake provided by food.
And, see how NORMAL females weigh less than 154 pounds.
"No upper hound defined" does NOT equate to there is no EXCESSive amount of
water from a quality of life point of view. I am NOT interested in finding
out what amount of water will kill you, but in what amount of water is
excessive in terms of Balance.
And, 100 ounces a day clearly is EXCESSIVE to a normal female, and for a
person of my weight doing office work.
John Gohde,
Natural Health Advocate of the Healing Power of Nature,
affiliated with www.expertcentral.com.
Get your health questions answered from the Natural Health Perspective at:
gnXfan
--
_BOB
http://members.xoom.com/gnxfan/
"High Flight" <j...@apk.net> wrote in message
news:84dgi3$oj3$2...@plonk.apk.net...
> In alt.health John Gohde <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> cyberscribed:
> > "No upper hound defined" does NOT equate to there is no EXCESSive amount
of
> > water from a quality of life point of view. I am NOT interested in
finding
> > out what amount of water will kill you, but in what amount of water is
> > excessive in terms of Balance.
>
> You keep bringing up this "quality of life" phrase regarding what you feel
> is EXCESSIVE water intake. I don't get it. What's the connection?
>
> Jack
>
> --
> aka Keet Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/
> "Black care rarely sits behind a rider whose pace is fast enough"
> - Theodore Roosevelt
> ** Email, except for post cc's and ads, is always welcomed**
Fred Thomas
On 29 Dec 1999, High Flight wrote:
> In alt.health John Gohde <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> cyberscribed:
> > "No upper hound defined" does NOT equate to there is no EXCESSive amount of
> > water from a quality of life point of view. I am NOT interested in finding
> > out what amount of water will kill you, but in what amount of water is
> > excessive in terms of Balance.
>
> You keep bringing up this "quality of life" phrase regarding what you feel
> is EXCESSIVE water intake. I don't get it. What's the connection?
>
> Jack
It's quite simple. If you drink an EXCESSive amount of water, he'll call
you a negative moronic allopathic twit. (And if you're female he'll also
call you mental.)
"Seems to me, drinking 3 liters of water a day would rquire you to 8 ounce
cup of water every 30 minutes during the entire day." -- John Gohde
"In regard to your sexist comments, I can reply that most women are
mental. Women did not get the blame for the original sin in bible by
accident. Being mentally unstable, by nature, is not a virtue in my book!"
--John Gohde
"If you can not apply the scientific method in your posts, then please
leave!" -- John Gohde (10/23/99)
"When I support my position with an abstract, or a book reference, I am
using the Scholarly Method, NOT the Scientific Method." -- John Gohde
(12/24/99)
Whistler
>using the Scholarly Method, NOT the Scientific Method." -- John Gohde
>(12/24/99)
>cup of water every 30 minutes during the entire day." -- John Gohde
Seems to me that if your Scholarly Method comes up with the flawed
calculations above its time to change your method to a more scientific one.
The generally accepted recommended daily intake of water is "about" 2 litres
or "about" 8 8ounce glasses of preferably distilled pure water the purpose
of which is to flush the toxins out of ones body.Adjustments would need to
be made for exercise and lifestyle.Fluid intake from other sources
ie.coffee, tea, lemonade does not count..........Whistler
su...@my-deja.com
"John Gohde" <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> And, see how NORMAL females weigh less than 154 pounds.
I presume by `normal' you mean those who are not fat. Well, there's a
lot more normal females weighing 154 pounds than you'd think.
suse
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John Gohde
news:84eapk$kcel$1...@titan.xtra.co.nz...
This whole thread was started by Diana Wirth who originally recommended
drinking 3 liters of water a day.
The post of an immature person, that is Fred Thomas, have nothing to do with
anything other than Fred's immaturity.
In my opinion, fluids obtain from food and lemonade do count.
Two liters of water a day is reasonable. 64 ounces of water a day is
reasonable. But, 3 liters of water a day is clearly EXCESSive.
John Gohde,
Natural Health Advocate of the Healing Power of Nature.
Health Expert, with a rank of Silver, at www.expertcentral.com.
John Gohde
news:84dgi3$oj3$2...@plonk.apk.net...
> In alt.health John Gohde <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> cyberscribed:
> > "No upper hound defined" does NOT equate to there is no EXCESSive amount
of
> > water from a quality of life point of view. I am NOT interested in
finding
> > out what amount of water will kill you, but in what amount of water is
> > excessive in terms of Balance.
>
> You keep bringing up this "quality of life" phrase regarding what you feel
> is EXCESSIVE water intake. I don't get it. What's the connection?
Balance!
See the "Natural Health Perspective" located on my person web page,
referenced below in my signature. Good Health consists of Balance in all
areas of your life. There is such a thing as the Mind - Body - Spirit
connection. Five areas have a major impact on your health: Diet,
Nutrition, Nutritional Supplements, Attitude, and Meditation/Stress
Reduction. Drinking water is important, but is only part of a good diet.
Drinking water should not over shadow these five major areas of your life.
John Gohde
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.991229...@ux13.cso.uiuc.edu...
>
>
> On 29 Dec 1999, High Flight wrote:
>
> > In alt.health John Gohde <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> cyberscribed:
> > > "No upper hound defined" does NOT equate to there is no EXCESSive
amount of
> > > water from a quality of life point of view. I am NOT interested in
finding
> > > out what amount of water will kill you, but in what amount of water
is
> > > excessive in terms of Balance.
> >
> > You keep bringing up this "quality of life" phrase regarding what you
feel
> > is EXCESSIVE water intake. I don't get it. What's the connection?
> >
> > Jack
>
> It's quite simple. If you drink an EXCESSive amount of water, he'll call
> you a negative moronic allopathic twit
Obviously, EXCESSive is NOT part of the scientific method, nor in your
scientific vocabulary. But, it is a part of my vocabulary. And, it is
certainly a valid point to bring up in regards to health. Andrew Weil, M.D.
brings up the subject of Balance in Health issues. And, so do I.
And, yes Weils, as well as I, would call you a negative moronic allopathic
twit.
John Gohde
than 154 pounds.
<su...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:84f0cf$39v$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
John Gohde
> In alt.health John Gohde <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> cyberscribed:
> > High Flight <j...@apk.net> wrote in message
> >
> > news:84dgi3$oj3$2...@plonk.apk.net...
> >> In alt.health John Gohde <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> cyberscribed:
> >> > "No upper hound defined" does NOT equate to there is no EXCESSive
amount
> > of
> >> > water from a quality of life point of view. I am NOT interested in
> > finding
> >> > out what amount of water will kill you, but in what amount of water
is
> >> > excessive in terms of Balance.
> >>
> >> You keep bringing up this "quality of life" phrase regarding what you
feel
> >> is EXCESSIVE water intake. I don't get it. What's the connection?
> >
> > Balance!
> >
> > See the "Natural Health Perspective" located on my person web page,
> > referenced below in my signature. Good Health consists of Balance in
all
> > areas of your life. There is such a thing as the Mind - Body - Spirit
> > connection. Five areas have a major impact on your health: Diet,
> > Nutrition, Nutritional Supplements, Attitude, and Meditation/Stress
> > Reduction. Drinking water is important, but is only part of a good
diet.
> > Drinking water should not over shadow these five major areas of your
life.
>
> As far as I'm concerned, water intake is part of the diet, and if my urine
> is just shy of water-white, I'm drinking the proper amount of water. The
> other components you mention are totally irrespective of water
> consumption. I would still like to know how producing near water-white
> urine is adversely affecting my quality of life.
>
> Jack
You asked the question, and I answered the question.
I will be glad to answer your specific question in more detail. For a
detailed answer, asked for a Paid Consultation at my web site below. My
time is worth money. How about putting your money where your mouth is?
Frankly, I don't care if you got a life, or NOT! I drink 64 ounces of grape
juice a day. I drink more than twice as much fluids as the average person
in the USA does, That is MORE than enough. And, I have seen nothing posted
on this THREAD that would motivate me in the least in changing my water
drinking habit.
John Gohde
news:84fhuh$lo9d$1...@titan.xtra.co.nz...
>
> John Gohde <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:84f01o$kpr$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
> I wish people would post at the top of a thread so we dont have to keep
> scrolling down and wearing out our keys.
> To leave the water issue behind lets all agree that if you drink at least
> one and up to three liters per day you are doing your body a favour.
I love people who don't follow there own advice!
> I have just had a look at your website and think that you are generally
> offering some good advice but would like to take you up on the issue of
> ATTITUDE which you consider as one of the 5 requirements of healthy
living.
>
> Can you extrapolate on your presumption that all woman are mental as this
to
> me shows a conflict of the ideals you profess to aspire to.I find this
> attitude morally indefensible and am concerned that someone with such an
> attitude should set themselves up to be an expert at
www.expertcentral.com
> and pass on this attitude to our children.
I NEVER said, or wrote, that. You are referencing a post from Fred Thomas.
Furthermore, you clearly did not read that quote, because if you had you
would have read the first sentence in that quote.
Therefore, I expect a public apology from you for libeling my good name.
I object to persons writing me mental posts rather they be male, female,
Allopathic Scientist, or Quack. A mental post is written by an immature
person who is unable to deal with their own frustration. They are written
by people who can not be bothered to actually read what was actually written
and respond to what was actually written. The people who write mental
posts are unable to deal with more than one issue at a time. Frankly, I
don't have any more of my time to deal with your mental problems.
At Expertcental I have the RIGHT to pass on any question that I wish to.
It is my position that the ability to exercise self control comes under
Attitude. People with a Good Attitude live longer than those on CR with a
bad attitude. My position, has no basis in the scientific method. It is
based on a belief in the Mind -Body - Spirit connection. People who write
mental posts lack self-control. People with a lack of self control are
liking to have other problems too, such as a bad diet, excessive alcohol
consumption, and excessive weight.
Fred Thomas
On Thu, 30 Dec 1999, John Gohde wrote:
> Whistler <thefree...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>
> > I have just had a look at your website and think that you are generally
> > offering some good advice but would like to take you up on the issue of
> > ATTITUDE which you consider as one of the 5 requirements of healthy
> > living.
> >
> > Can you extrapolate on your presumption that all woman are mental as this
> > to
> > me shows a conflict of the ideals you profess to aspire to.I find this
> > attitude morally indefensible and am concerned that someone with such an
> > attitude should set themselves up to be an expert at
> > www.expertcentral.com
> > and pass on this attitude to our children.
>
> I NEVER said, or wrote, that.
I have to agree with John here. He didn't say all women are mental. He
said most women are mental. (on 9-21-99 in sci.med.nutrition)
John Gohde
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.991230...@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu...
How about that bit about "In regard to your sexist comments?"
The CONTEXT in which my comments were made is more than enough explaination
for my comments. You quoted out of context, buddy: ... Plain and Simple.
In my opinion, a mentally unstable person does NOT have a good attitude and
perfecting their diet and supplemental program wont make a dent in their
longevity. Drinking 100 ounces of water a day wont help much either.
Improving their ATTITUDE, would however, make a major difference
in their life. ATTITUDE is one area sorely lacking in SCIENCE newsgroups.
Fred Thomas
I was actually doing you a favor there, since the comments you responded
to were pretty tame. For everyone's edification, here are the vicious,
mean-spirited "sexist comments" that provoked poor John into denouncing
women as being mentally unstable by nature.
"Like my Women's Studies professor said in college: If men had to have
periods, be pregnant or give birth, there would be a clinic on every
corner."
joe record
about women/60s and so on//gloria steinman ..... i think - spell? - who said much
the same thing,to paraphrase her
fabulous lines :
' ...why if men had babies,abortion would be a sacrement!'
its gohde that dr worm stays on topic most of the time
'cause he's even more fucked when he strays away
from being a health dag.
imagine if there were some sort of news group party.......
gales of laughter around steve harris,lots of earnest
supplement data jugglingaround tom matthews and around dr worm lots of ugly noise
....... and then someone snots him! even then silver wouldn't get the message
..... maybe
a couple of those 154 lb women would shrinkwrap him!
lottsa grins !
Whistler
John Gohde <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:84f01o$kpr$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
> Natural Health Advocate of the Healing Power of Nature.
>
> Health Expert, with a rank of Silver, at www.expertcentral.com.
>
> Get your health questions answered from the Natural Health Perspective at:
> http://home.att.net/~johngohde/
>
> I am a Natural Health Advocate of pro-active approaches to preventing
> "Diseases of Civilization," promoting Optimum Health, and Longevity. The
> primary causes of ill health are faulty living habits. A proper lifestyle
> and patience will prevent, or correct, all nutritional deficiencies and
> Health Conditions. When your health fails, I will suggest an appropriate
> Natural Health Protocol.
I wish people would post at the top of a thread so we dont have to keep
scrolling down and wearing out our keys.
To leave the water issue behind lets all agree that if you drink at least
one and up to three liters per day you are doing your body a favour.
I have just had a look at your website and think that you are generally
John Gohde
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.991230...@ux13.cso.uiuc.edu...
> On Thu, 30 Dec 1999, John Gohde wrote:
>
> > Fred Thomas <f-th...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
> >
> > news:Pine.GSO.4.10.991230...@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu...
> >
> > > On Thu, 30 Dec 1999, John Gohde wrote:
> > >
> > > > Whistler <thefree...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > > I have just had a look at your website and think that you are
> > generally
> > > > > offering some good advice but would like to take you up on the
issue
> > of
> > > > > ATTITUDE which you consider as one of the 5 requirements of
healthy
> > > > > living.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can you extrapolate on your presumption that all woman are mental
as
> > this
> > > > > to
> > > > > me shows a conflict of the ideals you profess to aspire to.I find
this
> > > > > attitude morally indefensible and am concerned that someone with
such
> > an
> > > > > attitude should set themselves up to be an expert at
> > > > > www.expertcentral.com
> > > > > and pass on this attitude to our children.
> > > >
> > > > I NEVER said, or wrote, that.
> > >
> > > I have to agree with John here. He didn't say all women are mental.
He
> > > said most women are mental. (on 9-21-99 in sci.med.nutrition)
> > >
> > >
> > > "In regard to your sexist comments, I can reply that most women are
> > > mental. Women did not get the blame for the original sin in bible by
> > > accident. Being mentally unstable, by nature, is not a virtue in my
book!"
> > > --John Gohde
> >
> > How about that bit about "In regard to your sexist comments?"
> >
> > The CONTEXT in which my comments were made is more than enough
explaination
> > for my comments. You quoted out of context, buddy: ... Plain and
Simple.
>
> I was actually doing you a favor there, since the comments you responded
> to were pretty tame. For everyone's edification, here are the vicious,
> mean-spirited "sexist comments" that provoked poor John into denouncing
> women as being mentally unstable by nature.
>
> "Like my Women's Studies professor said in college: If men had to have
> periods, be pregnant or give birth, there would be a clinic on every
> corner."
And, why should I have to put up with a comment like that?
Or, an immature post like yours in the middle of a discussion on "Drinking
More Water?"
The answer is I don't.
John Gohde
> Based upon what I've read here in a very short time, I would say you are
> in dire need of an attitude adjustment, as well as some lessons in stress
> management. You seem, to me anyway, to not practice what you preach.
>
> Best of luck to you.
>
> Jack
Comming from you, I take your remarks as a compliment. I certainly do not
need your approval on anything.
John Gohde
In article <844qbc$n7l$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>,
sbha...@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris) wrote:
> In <83fdo1$cs6$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> "John Gohde"
> <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> >
> >eric <err...@rcn.com> wrote in message
> news:83ejik$80b$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> >
> >> are there?
> >
> >water
>
> Your kidneys need a minimal amount of water to function, true
> enough. But the idea that giving them more than that will make them
> function better is about like suggesting that if you squeeze the
> trigger harder, the bullet will come out faster. The only function
> increase you get with drinking more, is the "function" of excreting
> excess water. But that's less a function, than lack of a function.
> Your kidneys do work mainly to RETAIN water after they filter out a
> fraction of your blood. If you drink too much, they simply relax and
> work less.
>
The innocent sounding "relax and work less" is, in fact, apparently
worse than it sounds. This is ripped off from Pearson and Shaw -- I
have NOT seen the original article -- but have a look. Remember that
high BP is the nastiest thing you can do for your kidneys.
A research letter in the Feb. 27, 1999 The Lancet[Jordan, Shannon,
Grogan, Biaggioni, Robertson, "A Potent Pressor Response Elicited by
Drinking Water," The Lancet353:723
(1999).] provides data on another remarkable
physiological property of water. The scientist-authors report that
drinking water had a potent
pressor (blood pressure increasing) effect in 19 patients with severe
orthostatic hypotension due to
autonomic failure and in 11 healthy controls. In these patients and
controls, drinking water (480
mL -- one pint -- of tap water) raised systolic blood pressure by 11 (+
or - 2.4) mm Hg. about 35
minutes after drinking.
The authors also tested for possible mechanisms. The plasma volume did
not change significantly in
controls and in five patients. Neither plasma-vasopressin concentrations
nor plasma-renin activity
changed in patients or controls. However, they found in the 11 older
controls an increase in plasma
norepinephrine concentration 30 minutes after water drinking, an
increase the authors say is "at
least as great as that elicited by smoking two unfiltered cigarettes or
ingesting 250 mg caffeine."
They also note that "In occasional patients, drinking water increases
systolic blood pressure by
more than 100 mm Hg which can result in dangerously high blood pressure
values in the supine
[lying down, face upward] position. Water should, thus, be recognized as
an active substance
rather than a placebo, at least where blood pressure is concerned." (250
mg of caffeine is about as
much as contained in two cups of freshly brewed coffee.)
Keep this in mind the next time you read that some product is
"completely safe," especially when
they tell you to drink it all down with a nice healthful glass of water.
-Michael
John Gohde
> news:84fhuh$lo9d$1...@titan.xtra.co.nz...
> > John Gohde <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:84f01o$kpr$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
> > > Whistler <thefree...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> > I wish people would post at the top of a thread so we dont have to keep
> > scrolling down and wearing out our keys.
> > To leave the water issue behind lets all agree that if you drink at
least
> > one and up to three liters per day you are doing your body a favour.
>
> I love people who don't follow there own advice!
>
>
> > I have just had a look at your website and think that you are generally
> > offering some good advice but would like to take you up on the issue of
> > ATTITUDE which you consider as one of the 5 requirements of healthy
> living.
> >
> > Can you extrapolate on your presumption that all woman are mental as
this
> to
> > me shows a conflict of the ideals you profess to aspire to.I find this
> > attitude morally indefensible and am concerned that someone with such an
> > attitude should set themselves up to be an expert at
> www.expertcentral.com
> > and pass on this attitude to our children.
> I NEVER said, or wrote, that. You are referencing a post from Fred
Thomas.
> Furthermore, you clearly did not read that quote, because if you had you
> would have read the first sentence in that quote.
> Therefore, I expect a public apology from you for libeling my good name.
> I object to persons writing me mental posts rather they be male, female,
> Allopathic Scientist, or Quack. A mental post is written by an immature
> person who is unable to deal with their own frustration. They are written
> by people who can not be bothered to actually read what was actually
written
> and respond to what was actually written. The people who write mental
> posts are unable to deal with more than one issue at a time.
I am still waiting for your public apology.
In the mean time, I would like to add that the people who write mental posts
are stressed-out.
John Gohde
I have no comment on any of your comments included in this post, or in prior
posts to me.
Whistler <thefree...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:84jnvp$nikj$1...@titan.xtra.co.nz...
> > > John Gohde <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>
> >> I NEVER said, or wrote, that. You are referencing a post from Fred
> Thomas.
> >> Furthermore, you clearly did not read that quote, because if you had
you
> >> would have read the first sentence in that quote.
>
> >> Therefore, I expect a public apology from you for libeling my good
name.
>
>
> I now accept that John did not say that all woman are mentally unstable
and
> apologise unreservedly for misquoting a misquote.
>
>
> >>"In regard to your sexist comments, I can reply that >>most women are
> >>mental. Women did not get the blame for the original >>sin in bible by
> >>accident. Being mentally unstable, by nature, is not a >>virtue in my
> book!"
>
> As to the author of above quote no matter how contextually misrepresented
> it may be it still contains an underlying slur on "most" woman and as such
> my original assessment stands to whoever owns up to making this statement.
>
> >>A mental post is written by an immature
> >> person who is unable to deal with their own frustration. They are
> written
> >> by people who can not be bothered to actually read what was actually
> written
> >> and respond to what was actually written.
>
> Double "actually" : shows an underlining doubt of ones own thoughts.
>
> >>The people who write mental
> >> posts are unable to deal with more than one issue at a time.
>
> Very interesting insight. My analogy was that they usually showed an
> excellent sense of humour which would manifest into leadership qualities
in
> times of disaster.
>
> >>In the mean time, I would like to add that the people who write mental
> posts
> >>are stressed-out.
>
> Writing is an excellent source of stress release.It is generally accepted
in
> "learned" circles that by writing evrything down that bothers you your
> problems then appear less serious and the effort expended in the exercise
> calms the inner self.
>
>
>
> >>I am still waiting for your public apology
>
>
> Give me time you hadn't posted the letter then.
> Here goes! I reiterate.I now accept that John did not say that all woman
are
> mentally unstable and apologise unreservedly for misquoting a misquote.
>
> Yours mentally stressed,
> Whistler
>
>
Whistler
Whistler
http://www.flash.net/~skyangel/millennium_message/millennium_message.html
PEACE AND HAPPINESS TO EACH OF YOU AND YOUR FAMILIES.
Love,
Whistler
John Gohde
http://www.pathfinder.com/drweil/archiveqa/0,2283,204,00.html
"The standard recommendation is to drink at least eight 8-ounce glasses a
day. I'm not sure you need to force that much down, ...
Also, keep in mind you don't have to limit yourself to water. You can drink
highly diluted fruit juice, herbal tea, or a well-watered-down sports drink.
Sparkling water with a little fruit juice or lemon is also nice. All of
these count toward your 64 ounces a day. Drinks like cola, though, work
against the count, because caffeine is a diuretic and removes fluid from the
body. Three cups of coffee or tea are comparable to just two cups of water."
Ask Dr. Weil on "TODAY'S QUESTION: What Color is Your Urine? "
http://www.pathfinder.com/drweil/archiveqa/0,2283,1062,00.html
"I suppose it's fair to say there isn't a clear answer. The color of your
urine can vary according to a variety of factors. ...
Normal urine is straw-colored and slightly acid. ...
All in all, I wouldn't worry very much about urine color. ... "
John Gohde
> Seems to me that if your Scholarly Method comes up with the flawed
> calculations above its time to change your method to a more scientific
one.
> The generally accepted recommended daily intake of water is "about" 2
litres
> or "about" 8 8ounce glasses of preferably distilled pure water the
purpose
> of which is to flush the toxins out of ones body.Adjustments would need to
> be made for exercise and lifestyle.Fluid intake from other sources
> ie.coffee, tea, lemonade does not count..........Whistler
How much water do you need to drink?
Calculations that base the figure entirely on body weight are flawed. A
correct calculation would be as follows:
(Body Weight Related Needs) + (Activity Level Needs) +(Adjustments for
Climate) + (Protein Consumption Needs) - (Water Supplied by Food intake) =
(Optimium Daily Water Intake supplied by drinking Caffeine Free Fluids)
A person who is on a Very High Protein diet made indeed need to drink 3
liters of water a day. The more protein a person consumes, the more water
that they need to drink regardless of body weight. But, for the rest of us
normal people who are eating responsibly and who exercise moderation and
balance in Diet, Nutritional Supplements, Exercise, Attitude, and Stress
Reduction the goal of drinking 64 ounces of caffeine FREE fluids a day, is
quite admirable.
There is NO PRACTICAL advantage to perfecting your intake of water if even
one area of your life is out of balance. Furthermore, the more the other
areas of your life are in balance the less water your body will actually
need for perfection.
Citations that support my position are available by request at:
http://home.att.net/~johngohde/Consultation.html
John Gohde,
Natural Health Advocate of the Healing Power of Nature.
http://home.att.net/~johngohde/
Health Expert, with a rank of Silver, at www.expertcentral.com.
I am a Natural Health Advocate of pro-active approaches to preventing
"Diseases of Civilization," promoting Optimum Health, and Longevity through
moderation and balance in five areas: Diet, Nutritional Supplements,
Exercise, Attitude, and Stress Reduction. The primary causes of ill health
are faulty living habits. A proper lifestyle and patience will prevent, or
correct, all nutritional deficiencies and Health Conditions. I will be glad
to answer your health questions from the Natural Health Perspective. And,
when your health fails, I will suggest an appropriate Natural Health
Protocol.
merlijn spinnewijn
Walford"120 years diet"wrote in his autobiography:I discovered that it was
the best for me to eat and drink as little as possible.So everything is
relative.
John Gohde heeft geschreven in bericht
<85nqkr$d4m$2...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
joe record
think i saw it about 3 years ago.
Martin E. Lewitt
John Gohde <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>There is NO PRACTICAL advantage to perfecting your intake of water if even
>one area of your life is out of balance. Furthermore, the more the other
>areas of your life are in balance the less water your body will actually
>need for perfection.
Exactly, I would add that even if every area of your life is in
balance, there is NO PRACTICAL advantage to perfecting your intake of
water. Any error on the low side risks dehydration and its stress
on the kidney. In order to reduce this chance of error, be sure to
consume more than your body needs, this EXCESSIVE consumption of water,
is your safest course of action. -- Martin
--
Personal, not work info: Martin E. Lewitt My opinions are
Domain: lew...@swcp.com P.O. Box 729 my own, not my
Hm phone: (505) 281-3248 Sandia Park, NM 87047-0729 employer's.
David Lloyd-Jones
"Martin E. Lewitt" <lew...@swcp.com> wrote
>
> Exactly, I would add that even if every area of your life is in
> balance, there is NO PRACTICAL advantage to perfecting your intake of
> water.
All of the people writing Drink More Water say that beer, coffee and tea
don't count, because they are diuretics. At the same time they say that one
of the important reasons for Drinking More Water is cleaning out the
kidneys.
Hunh?
-dlj.
joe record
much more quickly than the people making these posts.
i hardly ever drink water......fish fuck in water!
seriously if i suddenly get into a water jag i drink plentifully mixed with a
little prune juice.
other ways are large veggie soups plus brown rice.
my weight remains constant. if i don't run i carry 2 kg of extra fluid
bound to extra glycogen held in the working muscles.
beer : 1.5 litres a day, tea -very large cups ( soup mugs) maybe 3 or 4,
coffee 2 of the same,black instant coffe with sugar and sliced ginger!
Gordon Held
David Lloyd-Jones wrote:
>
> "Martin E. Lewitt" <lew...@swcp.com> wrote
> >
> > Exactly, I would add that even if every area of your life is in
> > balance, there is NO PRACTICAL advantage to perfecting your intake of
> > water.
>
> All of the people writing Drink More Water say that beer, coffee and tea
> don't count, because they are diuretics. At the same time they say that one
> of the important reasons for Drinking More Water is cleaning out the
> kidneys.
>
> Hunh?
>
> Yeah. They do count, but not as much as real water. In other words, the diuretic drinks cause you to pee out maybe one-third more of the intake than straight water or a non-diuretic. Your body is still using the other two-thirds.
Gordon Held
John Gohde
news:38808723...@thegrid.net...
> David Lloyd-Jones wrote:
> > Hunh?
> Gordon Held
I already covered that in a hyperlink to Dr. Weil, which I will repeat as
follows.
http://www.pathfinder.com/drweil/archiveqa/0,2283,204,00.html
"Drinks like cola, though, work
against the count, because caffeine is a diuretic and removes fluid from the
body. Three cups of coffee or tea are comparable to just two cups of water."
My new post, was to annouce a change of position. Anyone on the Atkins
and the Other High Protein Diets may well require 100 ounces of water a day.
As for me, I don't. I don't get more than 15% of my calories from protein.
merlijn spinnewijn
I have is from 1903,printed in Milwaukee,translation Fulmer.Cornaro used to
drink a little wine(not older than 10 months),broth and breadsoup.He was not
fond of drinking plain water.He get old,but his constitution was fragile.He
was against large quantities of drinking,but it's not clear he meant by
that :drinking overall or wine drinking in particular.(Not very important
message,but maybe you like to know)
joe record heeft geschreven in bericht <38801582...@space.net.au>...
even
>> >one area of your life is out of balance. Furthermore, the more the
other
>> >areas of your life are in balance the less water your body will actually
>> >need for perfection.
>> >
>> >http://home.att.net/~johngohde/Consultation.html
>> >
>> >
rjk3
"John Gohde" <johnh...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> My new post, was to annouce a change of position. Anyone on the
Atkins
> and the Other High Protein Diets may well require 100 ounces of water
a day.
> As for me, I don't. I don't get more than 15% of my calories from
protein.
>
I admire a man who will modify his position in light of further
information.
Martin E. Lewitt
>All of the people writing Drink More Water say that beer, coffee and tea
>don't count, because they are diuretics. At the same time they say that one
>of the important reasons for Drinking More Water is cleaning out the
>kidneys.
>
>Hunh?
I mainly hydrate with tea. Perhaps one should "discount" the amount a
little if it has a diuretic other than water in it (as tea does). If
tea did not count, I would have been a prune with kidney failure long
ago. I don't think drinking plenty of fluids "cleans out" the kidneys,
rather it reduces the concentrating requirements on the kidney and
reduces the likelyhood of dehydration. The ice tea I drink is
more dilute than hot tea usually is, and I sometimes dilute it further,
especially at night closer to bedtime. -- Martin
rjk3
lew...@swcp.com (Martin E. Lewitt) wrote:
> In article <vTVf4.204314$5r2.5...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
> David Lloyd-Jones <ico...@netcom.ca> wrote:
> >
> >"Martin E. Lewitt" <lew...@swcp.com> wrote
>
> >All of the people writing Drink More Water say that beer, coffee and
tea
> >don't count, because they are diuretics. At the same time they say
that one
> >of the important reasons for Drinking More Water is cleaning out the
> >kidneys.
> >
> >Hunh?
>
> I mainly hydrate with tea. Perhaps one should "discount" the amount a
> little if it has a diuretic other than water in it (as tea does). If
> tea did not count, I would have been a prune with kidney failure long
> ago. I don't think drinking plenty of fluids "cleans out" the
kidneys,
> rather it reduces the concentrating requirements on the kidney and
> reduces the likelyhood of dehydration. The ice tea I drink is
> more dilute than hot tea usually is, and I sometimes dilute it
further,
> especially at night closer to bedtime. -- Martin
> --
Tea most certainly does count. The water supply has been contaminated
for centuries. Any stream may contain e. coli, giardia, or worse.
Boiling water kills the microbes. For centuries, everyone in China
drank tea, not water. In Europe, wine and bear were the answer to
unclean water; it wasn't until this century that modern sanitation
guaranteed a safe supply of water. Western culture and history were
written with a good buzz on, which probably accounts for a lot.
Here's to the man drinks water pure,
And goes to bed quite sober.
He falls as the leaves do fall,
He'll die before October.
Here's to the man who drinks dark ale
And goes to bed quite mellow;
He lives as he ought to live
And dies a jolly good fellow.
- Old English verse
(Even now, the average Brit probably obtains much of his water from
beer at the local pub.)