Is Nintendo doomed? You MUST read!!!
park...@aol.com
The following is taken from Next Generation Online.
Although experts acknowledge that the video games business is surprisingly
incestuous by even Jerry Springer’s standards, recent developments taking
place within two of Seattle’s biggest corporations have made that fact clear
for the whole world to see. Next Generation Online exclusively reports on how
Nintendo and Microsoft wound up eyeing the same company’s chipset for the year
2000’s biggest game console.
Few in the video game industry are aware of a rift that formed between
Nintendo and partner Silicon Graphics, Inc. just as their jointly-developed
64-bit game console rolled off production lines. Already beginning to feel
financial strains due to changing market conditions for their high-end
graphics workstations, Silicon Graphics found itself arguing over component
profits with notoriously tight-fisted Nintendo as the system’s American launch
MSRP was lowered at the last minute before release. Although the companies
maintained their working relationship, the decidedly traditional and hard-
lined management at Nintendo had taken offense, and no longer considered SGI a
lock for development of Nintendo’s post-N64 game console.
Then several important events took place during 1997 inside of Nintendo, SGI
and one of their former competitors. Weak Japanese sales of the N64 and its
software lowered the company’s confidence in the N64 platform, and American
sales were projected to fall off as key internal software titles were
continuing to miss release targets by entire seasons. Demonstrably strong
sales of PlayStation games in the inexpensive CD format had weakened the
appeal of Nintendo’s third-party development contracts, and Nintendo started
to believe that it was in the company’s immediate interest to prepare a new
console for release as soon as Fall of 1999. At the same time, a number of
Silicon Graphics key Nintendo 64 engineers left the company to form the new
firm ArtX, with the express intention to win a development contract for
Nintendo’s next hardware by offering Nintendo the same talent pool sans SGI’s
manufacturing and management teams.
As it turns out, most of the industry’s top 3D chip experts have been lured
away from smaller firms by accelerator developers NVidia, 3Dfx and NEC, so
Nintendo’s pool of potential partners was already shrinking when it began to
shop around for a new console design team. Enter CagEnt, a division of
consumer electronics manufacturer Samsung, and here’s where the confusion
begins: CagEnt was formerly owned by 3DO, where it operated under the name 3DO
Systems and developed the M2 technology that was sold to Panasonic for $100
Million some time ago. When 3DO decided to exit the hardware business, it sold
off the 3DO Systems division to Samsung, which named it CagEnt and gave it
roughly two years to turn a profit. CagEnt owned three key technologies: a DVD
playback system, a realtime MPEG encoding system called MPEG Xpress, and a
completed game console with a brand new set of console-ready chip designs
called the MX. Adrian Sfarti, who had formerly developed the graphics
architecture design for SGI’s Indy workstation, was the head of the MX
project.
The MX chipset was a dramatically enhanced version of the M2 chipset sold to
Panasonic and Matsushita, now capable of a 100 million pixel per second
fillrate and utilizing two PowerPC 602 chips at its core. (CagEnt’s executives
also boasted of a four million triangle per second peak draw rate, though the
quality of those tiny triangles would of course have been limited). Nintendo
executives Howard Lincoln and Genyo Takeda were among a group of visiting
dignitaries to tour CagEnt’s facilities, culminating in late 1997 or early
1998 with a formal offer from Nintendo to acquire CagEnt outright. At this
point, Nintendo had terminated its development contract with SGI (see SGI/MIPS
Loses Nintendo Business).
As purchase negotiations continued, Nintendo worked with CagEnt engineers on
preliminary plans to redesign the MX architecture around a MIPS CPU, as
Nintendo’s manufacturing partner NEC has a MIPS development license but none
to produce the PowerPC 602. Nintendo and CagEnt flip-flopped on whether the
finished machine would include a built-in CD-ROM or DVD-ROM as its primary
storage medium, with Nintendo apparently continuing to insist that ROM
cartridges would remain at the core of its new game system. Yet as DVD and
MPEG technologies would have been part of the CagEnt acquisition, Nintendo
would probably have found some reasonable use for those patents eventually.
The MX-based machine was to be ready for sale in Japan in fall 1999 -- in
other words, development of games for the new console would begin within
literally months, starting with the shipment of dev kits to key teams at Rare
and Nintendo’s Japanese headquarters.
Although the asking price for CagEnt was extremely low by industry standards,
talks unexpectedly broke off in early 1998 when Samsung and Nintendo
apparently disagreed on final terms of CagEnt’s ownership, leaving Samsung’s
management desperate for a suitor to buy the company. CagEnt aggressively
shopped itself around to other major industry players. SGI’s MIPS division,
reeling from the loss of its N64 engineers to ArtX, allegedly considered
acquiring CagEnt as a means to offer Nintendo the technology it had already
decided it liked. Sega, 3Dfx and other companies toured CagEnt’s facilities
and finally CagEnt found a suitor.
In early April, Microsoft’s WebTV division ultimately acquired all of the
assets of CagEnt and hired on most of its key personnel. WebTV and Microsoft
apparently intend to use the MX technology at the core of their next WebTV
device, which as might be guessed from the graphics technology, will no longer
be limited to simple web browsing and E-mailing functionality. The next
generation WebTV box will be Microsoft’s low-cost entry into the world of game
consoles, melding the functionality of a low-end computer with a television
set-top box and game-playing abilities. Having worked with Sega behind the
scenes since 1993 or 1994, Microsoft has been quietly gathering the knowledge
it needs to market and develop games for such a device, and now it has the
hardware that even Nintendo would once have wanted for itself.
As for Nintendo, all signs point to a very unpleasant near future for the
Japanese giant. Lacking internal hardware engineers with the necessary
expertise to develop the next high-end chipset, Nintendo is now all but forced
to either partner with ArtX, or one of the 3D accelerator makers who have been
sucking the industry dry of all its most talented people, or perhaps join with
one of its other major rivals. The latest word has it that ArtX and Nintendo
are in talks to work together, perhaps under circumstances similar to those
under which Nintendo would have acquired CagEnt. Unlike CagEnt, however, ArtX
does not have a finished console or even half-completed chip designs to sell
Nintendo, and it would be unlikely that Nintendo would be able to scrape
together a reasonable system by Christmas 2000 with ArtX’s present
limitations. Additionally, SGI’s recent series of strategic lawsuits against
Nvidia and ArtX seem to be intended to serve as garlic and crosses to stave
off any Nintendo alliance with its tastiest potential allies: Nintendo might
well fear developing a new console only to find out that its core technologies
or employees are depending upon infringed patents, regardless of the merits of
those patents or the lawsuits.
Meanwhile, the company continues to harbor tremendous concerns for the future
of the Nintendo64 platform, which appears to be sinking deeper and deeper in
Japan by the day. Nintendo’s negotiations with CagEnt shed light upon the
tremendous dependence the Japanese company now has upon Rare, which has been
responsible for a number of the Nintendo 64’s best-looking games and at least
two of the machine’s most popular—Diddy Kong Racing and Goldeneye 007. As
Nintendo’s Japanese development teams have never been known for their ability
to stick to release schedules, the company’s third-party rosters have remained
bare and its management has remained dogmatically fixated upon silicon chips
as its sole means of profit, Nintendo’s problems have set the stage for a
truly interesting set of negotiations come this E3.
To sum up, readers need to understand that decisions and relationships made
early in the design process of a new console can dictate a company’s standing
in the industry for the following five years. Ripple effects from these
decisions can be felt in a company’s bottom line can be felt for even longer.
Nintendo has found itself in the unenviable position of being without an
established partner and with the clock ticking down. If Nintendo should choose
to go with ArtX (assuming it’s able to fight off SGI’s lawsuit), it will need
to complete a chip design is an extremely short period of time. If it doesn’t
go with ArtX, Nintendo will have to find a technology that is already suited
to the console market or one that can readily be changed to suit a similar
purpose. Either way, at this point the chances of Nintendo hitting its desired
2000 release with a new system are extremely slim.
Next Generation Online will be first as always with the latest information on
this matter, as soon as it breaks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
So, what are your feelings about the future of Nintendo? Exactly where did
they go wrong after the completion of Nintendo 64? Perhaps Nintendo 64 IS
where they went wrong. Most importantly, what does Nintendo need to do to dig
themselves out of this hole? Maybe some of you even want to see them suffer a
little bit. Supporters and detractors alike must find these details
disturbing. I personally would miss some of the great games that will never
see the light of day if Nintendo doesn’t get it’s act together. Their utter
reliance on cartridges may yet prove to be their undoing. Nintendo, wake up
and go with the DVD/CD-Rom solution. I’m certain you can find creative ways to
make up for the loss of cartridge manufacturing fees.
If you were always a Nintendo supporter, does this report shake your
confidence in the slightest?
Who knows, maybe ArtX can save Nintendo’s day.
"Knowledge is Power"
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Jared
I think that this article makes it sound a little more bleak than it is, at
least in Europe and North America (where the N64 is selling well!).
Personally, I am glad that Nintendo has started eyeing the possibility of a
format other than just a cart. I think they shoud be looking into read/write
formats such as magnetic or DVD-RAM. Also, my dream would be for them to team up
with 3Dfx (scorned by Sega). What a killer chipset they could produce for
Nintendo's next system!
Where did Nintendo go wrong with the N64? Simple. They underestimated Sony.
Pure and simple! Sony was able to deliver a system that was relatively cheap to
develop for, and had excellent 3rd party relations.
I believe that it was an attitude problem, rather than a hardware problem that
is plaguing the N64. When it has good software, it is truly an impressive machine:
1080, Turok, GoldenEye, etc...
Nintendo is a big enough name with enough quality programmers, they will be
able to turn things around. Maybe not take the lead from Sony in Japan, but they
could at least start making some sales, if they release quality software in
abundance this year and get the 64DD out with killer-apps...
rodja...@hotmail.com
In article <6i5d8a$ahu$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>#1/3,
<sssssnnnnniiiiippppp>
> So, what are your feelings about the future of Nintendo? Exactly where did
> they go wrong after the completion of Nintendo 64? Perhaps Nintendo 64 IS
> where they went wrong. Most importantly, what does Nintendo need to do to
dig
> themselves out of this hole? Maybe some of you even want to see them suffer
a
> little bit. Supporters and detractors alike must find these details
> disturbing. I personally would miss some of the great games that will never
> see the light of day if Nintendo doesn’t get it’s act together. Their utter
> reliance on cartridges may yet prove to be their undoing. Nintendo, wake up
> and go with the DVD/CD-Rom solution. I’m certain you can find creative ways
to
> make up for the loss of cartridge manufacturing fees.
>
> If you were always a Nintendo supporter, does this report shake your
> confidence in the slightest?
>
> Who knows, maybe ArtX can save Nintendo’s day.
>
Assuming all of this is 100% accurate (not that I doubt the
poster or anything, but I'm a skeptic by nature):
I personally feel where Nintendo "went wrong" was in the entire
Virtual Boy fiasco. The N64 is a viable product, and had it come
out sooner I doubt Sony would have gotten the toehold it did.
Nevertheless, I don't see Nintendo as being in a hole. Granted,
they need to get their act together before they DO fall into it,
but right now I'd say they're "merely" looking into the hole, not
in it. Perhaps it will act as that wake-up call.
Their "utter reliance on cartridges" has yet to be proven to be
a wrong move. The CD/cart argument continues to roar, and one will
find people on both sides of it. Consider: if the N64 and PSX had
an equal number of games (or even a comparable number), I seriously
doubt the fact that the N64's games are on cart would have kept it
from a #1 slot, in all 3 prime markets.
Does the report shake my confidence? It has already been shaken by
Nintendo's delays (and nothing else, mind you). So Nintendo will have
to support the N64 (and perhaps the 64DD) a little longer... I
seriously doubt Nintendo fans are going to be jaded by that when delays
are already part of the Nintendo culture. Recall: how long did it take
the N64 to come out? How fast did it sell with only 2 games? I doubt an
*exact* repeat would work as well again, but then I also doubt their
new system will be so poorly supported when it does come out. The
answer, bluntly, is 'no'. And short of severe system deficiencies or
marketing/managerial blunders by Nintendo, I'm 95% sure I'll buy it.
Rod Jackson
rodja...@bigfoot.com
http://www.bigfoot.com/~rodjackson
ALeX K
Herman
Interesting, however, I believe that Nintendo's BIG mistake was going
with the cart format, which instantly scared off all the third party
developers, and the N64's US success was the only reason some third
parties signed back on at all. Nintendo has posted a healthy profit
in the past few quarters, but most of this profit was from the Game
Boy, Pocket Monsters, and other stuff. The N64 is dead in Japan, it's
dead in the UK, it seems to be doing alright in Germany, I don't know
what the situation is in Australia, and it's succeeded in the US.
However, the N64 has been the #1 console in the US from it's launch up
until the holiday season last year, I heard that the Playstation has
been outselling it since then. But the root of Nintendo's mistakes is
their stubborn, arrogant leadership. Pure and simple. If the company
doesn't change, then their fortunes are indeed bleak. However, they
won't change unless the management changes.
Unknown
Jared <zach...@mailhost1.csusm.edu> wrote:
> I think that this article makes it sound a little more bleak than it is, at
>least in Europe and North America (where the N64 is selling well!).
> Personally, I am glad that Nintendo has started eyeing the possibility of a
>format other than just a cart. I think they shoud be looking into read/write
>formats such as magnetic or DVD-RAM. Also, my dream would be for them to team up
>with 3Dfx (scorned by Sega). What a killer chipset they could produce for
>Nintendo's next system!
so funny that the replacement for the N64 would come in Q4 1999 ...
pretty quick if you ask me, and you seem to applaude it... beyond the
cartridge reasons, why would you want to *kill* off the N64 so quickly
in the areas that are selling well? besides 3Dfx needs a better fab,
that was one problem that Sega had with them as well...
> Where did Nintendo go wrong with the N64? Simple. They underestimated Sony.
>Pure and simple! Sony was able to deliver a system that was relatively cheap to
>develop for, and had excellent 3rd party relations.
> I believe that it was an attitude problem, rather than a hardware problem that
>is plaguing the N64. When it has good software, it is truly an impressive machine:
>1080, Turok, GoldenEye, etc...
> Nintendo is a big enough name with enough quality programmers, they will be
>able to turn things around. Maybe not take the lead from Sony in Japan, but they
>could at least start making some sales, if they release quality software in
>abundance this year and get the 64DD out with killer-apps...
they can not save the machine though... look at Sega and AM2; they
tried. Even a genius like Miyamoto needs time to be a genius... you
don't see Yu Suzuki being *rushed* by Sega.
>> So, what are your feelings about the future of Nintendo? Exactly where did
>> they go wrong after the completion of Nintendo 64? Perhaps Nintendo 64 IS
>> where they went wrong. Most importantly, what does Nintendo need to do to dig
>> themselves out of this hole? Maybe some of you even want to see them suffer a
>> little bit. Supporters and detractors alike must find these details
>> disturbing. I personally would miss some of the great games that will never
>> see the light of day if Nintendo doesn’t get it’s act together. Their utter
>> reliance on cartridges may yet prove to be their undoing. Nintendo, wake up
>> and go with the DVD/CD-Rom solution. I’m certain you can find creative ways to
>> make up for the loss of cartridge manufacturing fees.
but if they go DVD-RAM, will they go with the Sony supported standard?
And what do you tell the people who already own a N64... if they
replace it so soon, then they suffer the same PR nightmare that Sega
is currently going through; although as not much though. Plus, how
does it seem to the public if they remember when Nintendo stated that
there was "no need" to change the system, to "change the system", to
what... "change again"?
>> If you were always a Nintendo supporter, does this report shake your
>> confidence in the slightest?
as long as Miyamoto exists, and they have fresh 8-12 year olds to sell
to, and the Gameboy <which I think is headed toward its own disaster,
56 colors, eh!?> they will have enough money and innovation...
>> Who knows, maybe ArtX can save Nintendo’s day.
without an actual working chipset, chip, even os, if they do save
nintendo, it will not be soon...
-Will McBee
atomiclemonade
Dean Parker
>Their "utter reliance on cartridges" has yet to be proven to be
>a wrong move. The CD/cart argument continues to roar, and one will
>find people on both sides of it. Consider: if the N64 and PSX had
>an equal number of games (or even a comparable number), I seriously
>doubt the fact that the N64's games are on cart would have kept it
>from a #1 slot, in all 3 prime markets.
Your point is well taken. However, you only consider the financial bottom
line when gauging the success of the Nintendo's cartridge format. The truth
is that developers despise the cartridge format. I am a developer myself,
and we love the tech. We love the freedom that all that storage space gives
us. The lack of enthusiastic third-party support is SOLELY due to the
cartridge format. This strategy worked fine in the pre-Sony days, but when
given a chance to use Sony's dev kit developers leaped all over the new
format and largely turned their back on Nintendo and their old ways. Now,
speaking as a gamer, Nintendo 64 games up till now have been largely
disappointing. The radical differences in tech (from Sony, PC, and Sega) and
the limitations placed on texture size account for most of the lame games.
2nd generation games will be better, but I still do not care for the
repeating textures and low quality sounds and music. I loved Mario 64,
Waverace, Diddy Kong and Goldeneye. Those games are fun, but they STILL
would have benefited greatly from more storage space. Nintendo is the last
company to champion the cartridge format. They do so PURELY for financial
reasons. They like their cash cow, and don't want to kill it. We are all
playing lesser Nintendo games because of this attitude. I have been playing
games and programming for most of my life, and want to play the ULTIMATE
Metroid 64. I won't be anytime soon. Why is that? Nintendo and cartridges.
That's why. Cartridges are a mistake in the public and, most importantly,
the professional eye.
> Recall: how long did it take
>the N64 to come out? How fast did it sell with only 2 games? I doubt an
>*exact* repeat would work as well again, but then I also doubt their
>new system will be so poorly supported when it does come out. The
>answer, bluntly, is 'no'. And short of severe system deficiencies or
>marketing/managerial blunders by Nintendo, I'm 95% sure I'll buy it.
NIntendo sold well because of it's name. You simply can't buy name
recognition like they have. 'Nintendo' is synonymous with 'videogame' to
many non-gameplaying adults. 8 - 13 year olds simply didn't care about the
lack of games and the cartridge format. It was Nintendo, and that was good
enough for them. Japan's game tastes are far different, and RPG's (real ones
mind you!) don't work well on cartridge format anymore. Square walked away
for a reason. You can see that the young ones now who own Playstations and
N64's will not be so easily taken next time. They have become used to
popping in CD's.
I will buy Nintendo's next system as well, but ONLY if it uses a large
capacity storage format. I will finally draw the line here. Hard for me to
do, as I own (3DO,Jaguar, PSX,Super Nintendo,Genesis,32x,SegaCD, Atari 800,
Commodore 64 and a Voodoo 2 card). I buy everything, but Nintendo is trying
my patience. My N64 literally collects dust. I play imported Saturn games,
Playstation games, and every 3D accelerated PC game I can get my hands on. I
am jaded, and only games like Zelda 64 and Castlevania 64 will make me blow
off the dust now. It is for games like this that I wish Nintendo would get
it's act straight and make some release dates.
Jared
Just because you do not like many of the cart games does not equate
to it being the cart format's problem,
What games do you program? For what systems? PSX? N64? Saturn?
Of course Nintendo is out to make money. So is Sony. I get tired of
hearing "ooo, Nintendo went with carts so they could make money!" Um,
yeah...
Unknown
Jared <zach...@mailhost1.csusm.edu> wrote:
honestly, why do you think nintendo went cartridges? jus' wonderin'
-Will McBee
atomiclemonade
Anthony Bull
Just because you are a developer doesn't mean that you can speak on all
developers behalves, and also don't make assumptions on why Nintendo used
cartridges either, as you obviously don't have a clue.
Also, how big is the piracy problem on the play station? HUGE, and everyone
knows it. Compare this to the N64, and you will see another benefit of having
cartridges. If the piracy problem gets more out of hand then it will vastly
effect the play station, just as it has destroyed computers/systems in the
past (eg Atari ST).
Nintendo stated that one of the main reasons for using the cartridge format
is to get the programmers to squeeze the best possible out of the format,
by working with limited space. In-game music is far better if it can be
re-mixed in real-time to suit the situation as we see in many N64 games
than just streaming stuff of a CD, and awesome in-game music can easily be
made this way if you spend a little time and effort.
Games like Mario 64, Star Fox 64 and Diddy Kong racing are all squeezed in
to 8-12 megabyte carts, and yet they are simply the best, most immersive
games I have ever played in my life. Diddy Kong racing is HUGE, and squeezed
into a 12 meg cartridge. The possibilities are far more than you give it
comment for, but obviously not all developers have even half the talent of
Rare and Nintendo if they are going to whinge about cart size............
Unknown
ab...@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Anthony Bull) wrote:
>Just because you are a developer doesn't mean that you can speak on all
>developers behalves, and also don't make assumptions on why Nintendo used
>cartridges either, as you obviously don't have a clue.
why champion something that you may not know yourself... <playing
devil's advocate>
>Also, how big is the piracy problem on the play station? HUGE, and everyone
>knows it. Compare this to the N64, and you will see another benefit of having
>cartridges. If the piracy problem gets more out of hand then it will vastly
>effect the play station, just as it has destroyed computers/systems in the
>past (eg Atari ST).
guess you really do not remember the pirating that has affected
nintendo... famicon, super famicon, and even the vaunted n64, nintendo
has spent millions to stop it, and have lost millions... to date, all
videogame systems have been targeted for pirating...
>Nintendo stated that one of the main reasons for using the cartridge format
>is to get the programmers to squeeze the best possible out of the format,
>by working with limited space. In-game music is far better if it can be
>re-mixed in real-time to suit the situation as we see in many N64 games
>than just streaming stuff of a CD, and awesome in-game music can easily be
>made this way if you spend a little time and effort.
nintendo said... more pr. more like they want people to squeeze the
most *into* the format. working with limited space means that you can
not be lazy, true, and Rare and Miyamoto have shown that... but really
no one else. the music is rather suspect... why would you have CD
quality sound chips, but CD quality sound bytes would kill the amount
of memory left for the game... real smart. just wish yoshi's story
soundtrack was done by marilyn manson...
>Games like Mario 64, Star Fox 64 and Diddy Kong racing are all squeezed in
>to 8-12 megabyte carts, and yet they are simply the best, most immersive
>games I have ever played in my life. Diddy Kong racing is HUGE, and squeezed
>into a 12 meg cartridge. The possibilities are far more than you give it
>comment for, but obviously not all developers have even half the talent of
>Rare and Nintendo if they are going to whinge about cart size............
nintendo, nintendo, rare... these guys are awesome, and the singular
reason why I still have my n64, and will keep it because of them;
however, what about Cruisin' USA, War Gods, F1 Pole Position, NBA In
the Zone, so forth, so forth... the above games could be considered
sub-par, and could be blamed on the developers, but, with so little of
a selection, they all need to be better... maybe Psygnosis will up the
ante... hopefully.
-Will McBee
atomiclemonade
Kyle...just Kyle
Anthony Bull wrote in message <89383144...@bats.mcs.vuw.ac.nz>...
>Also, how big is the piracy problem on the play station? HUGE, and
everyone
>knows it. Compare this to the N64, and you will see another benefit of
having
>cartridges. If the piracy problem gets more out of hand then it will
vastly
>effect the play station, just as it has destroyed computers/systems in the
>past (eg Atari ST).
But developing for the Playstation is still profitable. In most cases more
profitable than developing for the N64.
>Nintendo stated that one of the main reasons for using the cartridge format
>is to get the programmers to squeeze the best possible out of the format,
>by working with limited space. In-game music is far better if it can be
>re-mixed in real-time to suit the situation as we see in many N64 games
>than just streaming stuff of a CD, and awesome in-game music can easily be
>made this way if you spend a little time and effort.
The Playstation can do real-time music as well as streamed redbook off the
CD.
>Games like Mario 64, Star Fox 64 and Diddy Kong racing are all squeezed in
>to 8-12 megabyte carts, and yet they are simply the best, most immersive
>games I have ever played in my life. Diddy Kong racing is HUGE, and
squeezed
>into a 12 meg cartridge. The possibilities are far more than you give it
>comment for, but obviously not all developers have even half the talent of
>Rare and Nintendo if they are going to whinge about cart size............
It's still a limitation. It doesn't matter how good a developer you are,
size helps.
-------------------------
Digital Ages Online independent video games network
-------- Playstation N64
http://www.digital-ages.com senior editor, news editor
-------------------------
rodja...@hotmail.com
In article <3546a...@news.snip.net>#1/1,
"Dean Parker" <dpa...@snip.net> wrote:
>
>
> >Their "utter reliance on cartridges" has yet to be proven to be
> >a wrong move. The CD/cart argument continues to roar, and one will
> >find people on both sides of it. Consider: if the N64 and PSX had
> >an equal number of games (or even a comparable number), I seriously
> >doubt the fact that the N64's games are on cart would have kept it
> >from a #1 slot, in all 3 prime markets.
>
> Your point is well taken. However, you only consider the financial bottom
> line when gauging the success of the Nintendo's cartridge format. The truth
> is that developers despise the cartridge format. I am a developer myself,
> and we love the tech. We love the freedom that all that storage space gives
> us. The lack of enthusiastic third-party support is SOLELY due to the
> cartridge format.
Yes, I can understand that developers wanting to use CDs was the cause
of fewer games. But let's assume for the time being that all of these
developers AREN'T going with CDs for the reason Nintendo "obviously"
sticks with carts: money.
If money isn't an issue, then I still don't fully comprehend why
developers despise carts so. To hear companies like Factor 5 and Rare
(admittably biased, but still makes the point), one would have to
acknowledge that there are developers who are very comfortable with
cart formats. Again, I have to wonder how much of this desire for
CDs is a result of developer GAMING preference as opposed to purely
physical "limitations". If they think CD games are better, it would
make sense that they would feel that a CD would yield more freedom
for their ideas for a great game (since their idea of a great game
incorporates CD-centric elements).
Not that I'm accusing you of detrimental bias, but seriously, do you
(and those you develop with) actually prefer the CD media for play,
or do you not care? For me, even though a programmer, graphics aren't
that impressive, and so repeating textures don't bother me. Similarly,
I could care less about a soundtrack... I enjoy it on *certain*
computer games, but mostly because I can swap out the CD and put my
own in. Load time, however, even bugs me on cart games (DKR's
opening sequence).
There's nothing wrong with having such a preference, and in most
cases I would expect one in one direction or the other. If most
modern game developers preferred CDs for personal play, it would go
a long way toward explaining Nintendo's marginal 3rd party support.
Not saying it's bad or wrong, I'm just wondering how much of a factor
it really is.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Anders Simonsson
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 03:18:55 GMT, (Will McBee) wrote:
*snip*
> just wish yoshi's story
>soundtrack was done by marilyn manson...
Oh man, if that was the case, then even I would actually *buy* a
copy... :-)
Anders Simonsson
http://www.bounce.to/nightcity/
anders.s...@mailbox.swipnet.se
Member of the Usenet Troll Clans
Phoenix Gamma
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Anders Simonsson wrote:
> > just wish yoshi's story
> >soundtrack was done by marilyn manson...
>
> Oh man, if that was the case, then even I would actually *buy* a
> copy... :-)
EUUUGH!!! You actually LIKE Marylin Manson? How can ANYBODY like that
band!?
That ex-pizza boy Brian Warner should be shot, killed and eaten!!
Ahem... sorry :)
I got a little carried away there. As you can tell, I don't like MM at all.
..... .....
So, to shift this post to a more game/Nintendo related theme, I put the
question to you all: Which artist(s)/bands would you like to see do
music for a computer game, and what sort of game?
We've had the Prodigy and Fluke do music on the Wipeout games on the PSX,
Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) did the Quake music on the PC, so who
would you all like to see put music to your favourite games? This'll
also give a slight insight into people's musical tastes too...
Personally, I think Billy Corgan (from the best band in the universe
Smashing Pumpkins), should do the music on a game. It'd either be a pacy
first-person shooter or an RPG of some sort.
Also, I think Tricky could provide some good musical backing to a game.
It'd be a dark game, though. Something alongthe lines of Resident Evil
or the up and coming Shodowman for the PC and (eventally) the N64.
Please, offer your opinion, people.
-me
Jared
Anders Simonsson wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:52:38 -0700, Jared
> <zach...@mailhost1.csusm.edu> wrote:
>
> > Nintendo is a big enough name with enough quality programmers, they will be
> >able to turn things around. Maybe not take the lead from Sony in Japan, but they
> >could at least start making some sales, if they release quality software in
> >abundance this year and get the 64DD out with killer-apps...
>
> Where`s all this "quality software in abundance" supposed to come
> from? Don`t you think they would release it if they had it?
> Killer-apps don`t fall out of the sky.
Now you want a list of upcoming games? Ok: Mother 3 (Earthbound 64), Mario RPG 2,
Zelda 64, Zelda 64DD, Fire Emblem 64, Pocket Monster RPG, Super Mario 64-2, Sim City
64, Donkey Kong Country 64, F Zero X, and many others which I did not list... plus do
not forget the 64DD. The more I think about it the better it sounds. Picture this:
Use Mario Artist: Polygon Maker, create a sign, a house, or a villager, and put
it or them in the next Zelda 64DD game. How fun would that be? Put your face on some
of the characters? Design the dungeons? Could be good if it's done right!
Jared
I said right in my post why. For money... read the last sentence...
ALeX K
I agree that nintendo are starting to get thier act together and are
releasing some potential great titles soon, but I have to say that its a
little late in the day......this lot you mentioned should have been
released a year ago at least - THAT would have given the N64 a better
chance against the Sony Movement Into Console World.
--
ALeX K
al...@globalnet.co.uk
Anders Simonsson
> Now you want a list of upcoming games? Ok: Mother 3 (Earthbound 64), Mario RPG 2,
>Zelda 64, Zelda 64DD, Fire Emblem 64, Pocket Monster RPG, Super Mario 64-2, Sim City
>64, Donkey Kong Country 64, F Zero X, and many others which I did not list...´
Calling that an "abundance of quality software" is stretching things
to breaking point. Also, I can`t help but wonder over the "many
others" you didn`t list. Why didn`t you list them? Do they exist?
> plus do
>not forget the 64DD. The more I think about it the better it sounds. Picture this:
Considering that the 64DD is unlikely to be released at all, I think
the situation gets shakier by the minute.
> Use Mario Artist: Polygon Maker, create a sign, a house, or a villager, and put
>it or them in the next Zelda 64DD game. How fun would that be? Put your face on some
>of the characters? Design the dungeons? Could be good if it's done right!
Could it really? I doubt it, but hey, you`re entitled to an opinion.
Jared
Anders Simonsson wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:27:47 -0700, Jared
> <zach...@mailhost1.csusm.edu> wrote:
>
> > Now you want a list of upcoming games? Ok: Mother 3 (Earthbound 64), Mario RPG 2,
> >Zelda 64, Zelda 64DD, Fire Emblem 64, Pocket Monster RPG, Super Mario 64-2, Sim City
> >64, Donkey Kong Country 64, F Zero X, and many others which I did not list...´
>
> Calling that an "abundance of quality software" is stretching things
> to breaking point. Also, I can`t help but wonder over the "many
> others" you didn`t list. Why didn`t you list them? Do they exist?
From one company, due out within a year? I would call that an abudance. More? Ok:
Pocket Monster Stadium, Pocket Monster Snap, FP shooter by Rare, Mario Artist, Golf, Ogre
Battle, etc...
>
>
> > plus do
> >not forget the 64DD. The more I think about it the better it sounds. Picture this:
>
> Considering that the 64DD is unlikely to be released at all, I think
> the situation gets shakier by the minute.
Oh, and your facts for this is.... (oh, because it has been delayed means it's
cancled. What logic!)
>
>
> > Use Mario Artist: Polygon Maker, create a sign, a house, or a villager, and put
> >it or them in the next Zelda 64DD game. How fun would that be? Put your face on some
> >of the characters? Design the dungeons? Could be good if it's done right!
>
> Could it really? I doubt it, but hey, you`re entitled to an opinion.
You play your games then and be content with the status quo. If that was so you would
still be playing Pong. 8 and 16bit games will be better... Anders: "Could it really? I
doubt it." Me? I want to be able to design my own race courses for racing games, battle
areans for fighters, design in game locations and objects. I wouldnt mind ampping my
likness on characters...
Darien Allen
>> Considering that the 64DD is unlikely to be released at all, I think
>> the situation gets shakier by the minute.
>
> Oh, and your facts for this is.... (oh, because it has been delayed means it's
>cancled. What logic!)
Jared before we take this any further, let me ask you a simply
question....do you understand the reason WHY the DD64 has been
delayed? And I'm not talking about because there are no games ready
for it...I'm talking about the OTHER reason.
>areans for fighters, design in game locations and objects. I wouldnt mind ampping my
>likness on characters...
Personally I think that's pretty childish feature that I would have no
use for(I SAID PERSONALLY), but then again, I know some adults here at
my job that would probably be thrilled for hours at a time.....
-------------------------
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-------------------------
Hunter Lonsberry
I find the part about SGI talking about chip pricing interesting. At a SGI
information session, the representative either told us that the SGI processor used
in the N64 either costs or sell of <5 bucks(probably costs.) This is down from
around $1000 or so, several years ago.
Kyle...just Kyle
Hunter Lonsberry wrote in message <3549E41F...@rpi.edu>...
Technology improves at an alarming rate. I would guess that's the raw
material cost.
-------------------------
Digital Ages Online independent video games network
Charles Miller Jr.
Hunter Lonsberry wrote in message <3549E41F...@rpi.edu>...
>I find the part about SGI talking about chip pricing interesting. At a SGI
>information session, the representative either told us that the SGI
processor used
>in the N64 either costs or sell of <5 bucks(probably costs.) This is down
from
>around $1000 or so, several years ago.
The chip in my calculator cost tons, several years ago.... don't de so
surprised. :)
Jesse Dorland
On or around Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:06:25 GMT, a member of the Kuwaiti
Mafia, under the alias anders.s...@mailbox.swipnet.se (Anders
Simonsson), was spotted delivering the following message in discrete
brown packaging to Lenny, the funny-smelling guy on the pier:
>On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:27:47 -0700, Jared
><zach...@mailhost1.csusm.edu> wrote:
>
>> Now you want a list of upcoming games? Ok: Mother 3 (Earthbound 64), Mario RPG 2,
>>Zelda 64, Zelda 64DD, Fire Emblem 64, Pocket Monster RPG, Super Mario 64-2, Sim City
>>64, Donkey Kong Country 64, F Zero X, and many others which I did not list...´
>
>Calling that an "abundance of quality software" is stretching things
>to breaking point. Also, I can`t help but wonder over the "many
>others" you didn`t list. Why didn`t you list them? Do they exist?
Oh, come on; you're grabbing at straws. Can you list fifty Playstation
games that are coming out in the remainder of the year, off the top of
your head?
-Jesse
====================================================
Jesse Dorland
jessedorland AT hotmail DOT com
10268731 on ICQ
====================================================
Jared
Darien Allen wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:29:20 -0700, Jared
> <zach...@mailhost1.csusm.edu> wrote:
>
> >> Considering that the 64DD is unlikely to be released at all, I think
> >> the situation gets shakier by the minute.
> >
> > Oh, and your facts for this is.... (oh, because it has been delayed means it's
> >cancled. What logic!)
>
> Jared before we take this any further, let me ask you a simply
> question....do you understand the reason WHY the DD64 has been
> delayed? And I'm not talking about because there are no games ready
> for it...I'm talking about the OTHER reason.
I have read many different rumors on the subject which varies from lack of software,
to wating to display it at the Tokyo Game Show come Oct...
>
>
> >areans for fighters, design in game locations and objects. I wouldnt mind ampping my
> >likness on characters...
>
> Personally I think that's pretty childish feature that I would have no
> use for(I SAID PERSONALLY), but then again, I know some adults here at
> my job that would probably be thrilled for hours at a time.....
Childish to create your own race track, in game characters, locations, dungeons,
battle arenas? Fine... whatever *you* enjoy, but I find it a true extension of
interactivity...
>
>
> -------------------------
> Digital Ages Online
> independent video games network
park...@aol.com
Rod, it is nice to talk to someone who doesn't think to insult first, ask
questions later as someone tried to do to me in an earlier reply.
The reasons behind the relative lack of 3rd party games for the Nintendo 64
revolve around 2 issues. Money and freedom. Mostly money. Development houses
(who do the actual programming) are contracted to do the work and are funded
the development costs. They also receive a certain cut of each game sold. This
amount is not large. $7 - $10 or so. Publishers mass produce and distribute
the game to their resellers. They need a cut as their expenses are the
greatest. Maybe $12 - $15. Retailers get their cut too. $5 - $10. Now, in the
PC games world there is no central company demanding a cut of EVERY game sold.
Yield per game is largest for PC games. However, good PC games NEVER sell as
many units as good console games. There is more money to be made overall by
selling console games due to their large installed bases. Sony charges a
licensing fee. I'm guessing now, but I think it's in the $7 range per game.
All publishers must cough this up to Sony for every game they sell. Nintendo
charges publishers for the cart manufacturing, and publishers MUST BUY A
CERTAIN NUMBER of carts in order to get them made. That means if you want to
release Scumbag VII, the next great flop, you have to buy a batch of 50,000
carts (not sure about the number, but these are the relative amounts). That
means publishers have to take educated guesses about how many copies of a game
they think they can sell. If they guess right, terrific! If not, they can lose
millions. If they guess too low, then they have to place a resupply order
with Nintendo. Turnaround is typically 4 - 6 weeks. Turnaround for CD's are
typically 1 - 2 weeks. This means that games can be back on shelves when
demand IS STILL GREAT. Trust me, publishers consider all these factors when
placing large cart order. A typical cart licensing fee from Nintendo is $30
-$35. Do you think $35 is more than Sony's $7? Well, if you don't there are a
WHOLE LOT of publishers NOT making games for the Nintendo 64 who do.
There have been several people claiming that Nintendo chose carts because they
want to test developers and push them to their limits. Surely, an industrious
and skilled programmer can make a cart sing, right??? Please, oh please spare
me! Any coder given enough time can make an Atari 2600 look like an
Intellivision. Now, what did I learn by losing my blood, sweat and tears to
make Pitfall and Ms Pac Man run on a 2600? I learned that taking my grand
ideas and sacrificing my image of what I want my game to be is NOT an
experience I would undergo WILLINGLY. Forget the fact that the mediums in
question are CD and cart. Who cares? Games take up SPACE. Sound and graphics
take up MORE space than actual game code. Why does Windows NT need more memory
than Windows 95? The programmers wanted to put in more stuff that could be
used by people. It's the same with games. It is more fun for the artists to
see something RESEMBLING the 24 bit texture they slaved away on for months.
The programmers have more fun when they have expanded limits for game physics
and models. Now we have the choice. Carts or CD's. Knowing the industry a
little bit better now what would you choose? What choice have all those
developers and publishers NOT making games for the Nintendo 64 made? Do you
understand why?
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Kyle...just Kyle
Jared wrote in message <354A2795...@mailhost1.csusm.edu>...
>Darien Allen wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:29:20 -0700, Jared
>> <zach...@mailhost1.csusm.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >> Considering that the 64DD is unlikely to be released at all, I think
>> >> the situation gets shakier by the minute.
>> >
>> > Oh, and your facts for this is.... (oh, because it has been delayed
means it's
>> >cancled. What logic!)
>>
>> Jared before we take this any further, let me ask you a simply
>> question....do you understand the reason WHY the DD64 has been
>> delayed? And I'm not talking about because there are no games ready
>> for it...I'm talking about the OTHER reason.
>
> I have read many different rumors on the subject which varies from lack
of software,
>to wating to display it at the Tokyo Game Show come Oct...
The DD has been ready for qutite some time now. They could have chosen to
display it at E3, or even possibly at the Spring TGS. The timing of shows
isn't a factor. Games are a factor, but you're missing what Darien's
talking about.
-------------------------
Digital Ages Online independent video games network
Anders Simonsson
On 1 May 1998 10:28:00 -0700,
jessedorlan...@BEFOREMAILINGhotmail.com (Jesse Dorland) wrote:
>>> Now you want a list of upcoming games? Ok: Mother 3 (Earthbound 64), Mario RPG 2,
>>>Zelda 64, Zelda 64DD, Fire Emblem 64, Pocket Monster RPG, Super Mario 64-2, Sim City
>>>64, Donkey Kong Country 64, F Zero X, and many others which I did not list...´
>>Calling that an "abundance of quality software" is stretching things
>>to breaking point. Also, I can`t help but wonder over the "many
>>others" you didn`t list. Why didn`t you list them? Do they exist?
>Oh, come on; you're grabbing at straws. Can you list fifty Playstation
>games that are coming out in the remainder of the year, off the top of
>your head?
The guy listed 10 games (one of which was a 64DD title) and I have to
list 50?? I don`t think that 10 titles in one year can be called "an
abundace of software". If you disagree, then hey, you have every right
to do so. I seriously doubt that we will see all the above titles (all
10 of them) this year, but that`s another story, and yes, that`s my
opinion.
Jared
Kyle...just Kyle wrote:
> Jared wrote in message <354A2795...@mailhost1.csusm.edu>...
> >Darien Allen wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:29:20 -0700, Jared
> >> <zach...@mailhost1.csusm.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Considering that the 64DD is unlikely to be released at all, I think
> >> >> the situation gets shakier by the minute.
> >> >
> >> > Oh, and your facts for this is.... (oh, because it has been delayed
> means it's
> >> >cancled. What logic!)
> >>
> >> Jared before we take this any further, let me ask you a simply
> >> question....do you understand the reason WHY the DD64 has been
> >> delayed? And I'm not talking about because there are no games ready
> >> for it...I'm talking about the OTHER reason.
Enlighten us Darien...
> >
> > I have read many different rumors on the subject which varies from lack
> of software,
> >to wating to display it at the Tokyo Game Show come Oct...
>
> The DD has been ready for qutite some time now. They could have chosen to
> display it at E3, or even possibly at the Spring TGS. The timing of shows
> isn't a factor. Games are a factor, but you're missing what Darien's
> talking about.
Then why doesnt he post it? Why didnt you post it? What is this *BIG*
reason? If you're talking about a lack of installed user base in Japan, I
already knew that too. They (1) need good release games, (2) need good
beginning exposure (TGS), and (3) a good installed user base.
Wow, what incredible secrets...
Jared
Anders Simonsson wrote:
> On 1 May 1998 10:28:00 -0700,
> jessedorlan...@BEFOREMAILINGhotmail.com (Jesse Dorland) wrote:
>
> >>> Now you want a list of upcoming games? Ok: Mother 3 (Earthbound 64), Mario RPG 2,
> >>>Zelda 64, Zelda 64DD, Fire Emblem 64, Pocket Monster RPG, Super Mario 64-2, Sim City
> >>>64, Donkey Kong Country 64, F Zero X, and many others which I did not list...´
>
> >>Calling that an "abundance of quality software" is stretching things
> >>to breaking point. Also, I can`t help but wonder over the "many
> >>others" you didn`t list. Why didn`t you list them? Do they exist?
>
> >Oh, come on; you're grabbing at straws. Can you list fifty Playstation
> >games that are coming out in the remainder of the year, off the top of
> >your head?
>
> The guy listed 10 games (one of which was a 64DD title) and I have to
> list 50?? I don`t think that 10 titles in one year can be called "an
> abundace of software". If you disagree, then hey, you have every right
> to do so. I seriously doubt that we will see all the above titles (all
> 10 of them) this year, but that`s another story, and yes, that`s my
I was talking merely about what Nintendo is going to be releasing. That was not a
complete list. There are several more that Nintendo has rumored to yet announce. That is
quite a few quality gamesw from one company, with more to be unvielded and some I'm sure I
left out... I dont care for you to list 50, I was merely showing that they did have
quality software, and much coming... just from Nintendo, not counting 3rd party...
Plus I said, within a year...not this year....
Jesse Dorland
On or around Sat, 02 May 1998 09:37:16 GMT, a member of the Kuwaiti
Mafia, under the alias anders.s...@mailbox.swipnet.se (Anders
Simonsson), was spotted delivering the following message in discrete
brown packaging to Lenny, the funny-smelling guy on the pier:
>On 1 May 1998 10:28:00 -0700,
>jessedorlan...@BEFOREMAILINGhotmail.com (Jesse Dorland) wrote:
>
>>>> Now you want a list of upcoming games? Ok: Mother 3 (Earthbound 64), Mario RPG 2,
>>>>Zelda 64, Zelda 64DD, Fire Emblem 64, Pocket Monster RPG, Super Mario 64-2, Sim City
>>>>64, Donkey Kong Country 64, F Zero X, and many others which I did not list...´
>
>>>Calling that an "abundance of quality software" is stretching things
>>>to breaking point. Also, I can`t help but wonder over the "many
>>>others" you didn`t list. Why didn`t you list them? Do they exist?
>
>>Oh, come on; you're grabbing at straws. Can you list fifty Playstation
>>games that are coming out in the remainder of the year, off the top of
>>your head?
>
>The guy listed 10 games (one of which was a 64DD title) and I have to
>list 50??
That's not what I meant. You seemed to be expecting Jared to list every
single upcoming N64 game off the top of his head. I was asking if you
could list the same number of upcoming PSX games. Sorry if I
misinterpreted your comment.
>I don`t think that 10 titles in one year can be called "an
>abundace of software".
I don't think it is, either. But you know there are more than 10 N64
games coming out this year, don't you? And could you list them all off
the top of your head, as you seem to be asking Jared to do? Probably
not. I know I couldn't.
Darien Allen
>
> Childish to create your own race track, in game characters, locations, dungeons,
>battle arenas? Fine... whatever *you* enjoy, but I find it a true extension of
>interactivity...
Jared I KNOW your reading comprehension is better than this. I find
the idea of mapping my face on a gaming character does not appeal to
me....I could give a rat's about the character's face...
Don't hold your breath waiting on that true extension though ok? We
wouldn't want anything to happen to you.
-------------------------
Digital Ages Online
independent video games network
Jared
First, if I read your posts wrong sorry. Second, chill, if it was an accident. Geez.
Third, I dont give a rip that *you* still say its not *ever* coming. Fine, whatever.
We'll see. I think Nintendo is still going to release it. I would merely ask for that
news article by Nintendo saying "Sorry, we're not releasing it." We'll see...
Hold my breath... your posts just get more cliche....
PhantomK3
jessedorlan...@BEFOREMAILINGhotmail.com (Jesse Dorland) wrote:
>On or around Sat, 02 May 1998 09:37:16 GMT, a member of the Kuwaiti
>Mafia, under the alias anders.s...@mailbox.swipnet.se (Anders
>Simonsson), was spotted delivering the following message in discrete
>brown packaging to Lenny, the funny-smelling guy on the pier:
>
>>On 1 May 1998 10:28:00 -0700,
>>jessedorlan...@BEFOREMAILINGhotmail.com (Jesse Dorland) wrote:
>>
>>>>> Now you want a list of upcoming games? Ok: Mother 3 (Earthbound 64), Mario RPG 2,
>>>>>Zelda 64, Zelda 64DD, Fire Emblem 64, Pocket Monster RPG, Super Mario 64-2, Sim City
>>>>>64, Donkey Kong Country 64, F Zero X, and many others which I did not list...´
>>
>>>>Calling that an "abundance of quality software" is stretching things
>>>>to breaking point. Also, I can`t help but wonder over the "many
>>>>others" you didn`t list. Why didn`t you list them? Do they exist?
>>
>>>Oh, come on; you're grabbing at straws. Can you list fifty Playstation
>>>games that are coming out in the remainder of the year, off the top of
>>>your head?
>>
>>The guy listed 10 games (one of which was a 64DD title) and I have to
>>list 50??
More than one was 64DD- Mother 3 is DD, so is SimCity, F-Zero X,
Super Mario 64-2, ZeldaDD, they were all mentioned. Other DD games
are Mario RPG 2, Sim Copter, Unreal, and the Mario Artisit Series.
DD is coming out, there is no way Nintendo is going to cancel
production on such a cost effecient (DD- $70, games estimated around
$29) and innovative (readable and writeable) system add-on.
If you want more info on the 64-DD go to http://www.ign64.com they
have all the recent facts on the system.
----PhantomK3
"My son really liked to play the flute, but he went to look for the
golden power."- Old Man, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Darien Allen
And the holy hosts all joined in as phan...@aol.com (PhantomK3)
gifted us with these words:
>More than one was 64DD- Mother 3 is DD, so is SimCity, F-Zero X,
>Super Mario 64-2, ZeldaDD, they were all mentioned. Other DD games
>are Mario RPG 2, Sim Copter, Unreal, and the Mario Artisit Series.
>DD is coming out, there is no way Nintendo is going to cancel
>production on such a cost effecient (DD- $70, games estimated around
>$29) and innovative (readable and writeable) system add-on.
>If you want more info on the 64-DD go to http://www.ign64.com they
>have all the recent facts on the system.
Game systems/add-ons have been cancelled this late in the game.
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Remove NOSPAM to reply
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Anders Simonsson
On Wed, 06 May 1998 20:18:38 GMT, phan...@aol.com (PhantomK3) posted
via his Tamagotchi Net Link:
>More than one was 64DD- Mother 3 is DD, so is SimCity, F-Zero X,
>Super Mario 64-2, ZeldaDD, they were all mentioned. Other DD games
>are Mario RPG 2, Sim Copter, Unreal, and the Mario Artisit Series.
>DD is coming out, there is no way Nintendo is going to cancel
>production on such a cost effecient (DD- $70, games estimated around
>$29) and innovative (readable and writeable) system add-on.
I have been ranting about this forever it seems, but does anyone
listen? Nope. ;-) So I guess I`ll just leave this one to the others.
Any takers?
>If you want more info on the 64-DD go to http://www.ign64.com they
>have all the recent facts on the system.
For the record, IGN64.COM is not the most reliable source when it
comes to things like this. Use your head instead.
Anders Simonsson
http://www.bounce.to/nightcity/
anders.s...@mailbox.swipnet.se
...and then the sick bastards slit their
wrists and wrote "Jesus saves" all over
the wall...
Phoenix Gamma
On Thu, 7 May 1998, Anders Simonsson wrote:
> I have been ranting about this forever it seems, but does anyone
> listen? Nope. ;-) So I guess I`ll just leave this one to the others.
> Any takers?
Yeah:
64DD - vapourware, old wives tales, rumours, myths and legends.
Nintendo - need a reality implant.
Was I on the right track? :)
-me
Anders Simonsson
On Thu, 7 May 1998 09:20:35 +0100, Phoenix Gamma <ag...@coventry.ac.uk>
posted via his Tamagotchi Net Link:
>On Thu, 7 May 1998, Anders Simonsson wrote:
Sure. But hey, I`ll play the part of Devils Advocate here and present
you with the typical Nintendrone attitude.... BTW, stop me if you`ve
heard this before...
"Nintendo can do NOTHING wrong they will save all LOYAL fans from the
horrible PlaySatan the 64DD WILL be released despite the fact that
there is nothing but a handful of gimmick apps available so far and it
will only cost 9.99$ and it WILL have a modem and squillions of RAM
and it will turn the N64 around in Japan where everyone and his
brother will suddenly see the light and tear units from the shelves
and Zelda will f*cking crush everything and the N64 will have a decent
fighter some day soon I tell you and Square WILL develop for the N64
and Capcom will release a REAL game for it and if anyone disagrees
they can f*cking clear out of here cuz this place only belongs to REAL
fans and not freaks with multiple systems so there!".
Do you know that tune? Me, I`ve heard it so many times now that I know
it by heart. For the record, I think that the N64 would have been in a
much different place today, if they had made the 64DD an integral part
of the N64 and not a separate unit. Sure, it would have been more
expensive, but everyone claims they will buy the unit anyway, so it
should even out.
Will the fabled 64DD ever be released? Perhaps. I personally have my
doubts, but that`s just me. Don`t bother flaming me, because I`ve
heard it all before.
Phoenix Gamma
On Fri, 8 May 1998, Anders Simonsson wrote:
> Sure. But hey, I`ll play the part of Devils Advocate here and present
> you with the typical Nintendrone attitude.... BTW, stop me if you`ve
> heard this before...
It all sounds disturbingly familiar...
>
> Do you know that tune? Me, I`ve heard it so many times now that I know
> it by heart.
Oh yes.
> For the record, I think that the N64 would have been in a
> much different place today, if they had made the 64DD an integral part
> of the N64 and not a separate unit. Sure, it would have been more
> expensive, but everyone claims they will buy the unit anyway, so it
> should even out.
I agree. It would've certainly helped the machine in the light of all
the cartridge limitation criticisms it gets.
To be honest, my faith in Nintendo declines steadily by the day,
especially now that I have a PSX and haven't switched on my N64 ever
since. I mean, there I was waiting for games to come out that keep on
getting delayed, living in the hope that Capcom and Square might actually
release something on the N64, listening to stupid rumours and waiting on
vapourware, whilst the Playstation was sitting there with a veritable
treasure trove of titles. Granted, the N64 games I have are very good
and I'm sure some of the up and coming titles will be great games too,
but on the whole, I don't see why I should wait several months in
between titles only to get a game that I usually complete in about two
weeks (if that). And who wants to hear about a load of games planned for
a 1999 release!? The machine's been out a year already and all they have
to offer is a few dangled carrots in the form of games planned for next
year!? That's supposed to keep buyers happy!?
I don't think Nintendo have really thought about
marketing their machine, and -sad is may be- developers just can't be
bothered with cartridges. I've been glued to Final Fantasy VII for the
last two weeks, which I absolutely love, and its obvious that nothing is
big or as vast as that will EVER appear on the N64.
> Will the fabled 64DD ever be released? Perhaps. I personally have my
> doubts, but that`s just me. Don`t bother flaming me, because I`ve
> heard it all before.
Maybe, maybe not. But I can garuantee that a month or a week before its
release, it'll get put back.
-me
Anders Simonsson
On Fri, 8 May 1998 12:41:25 +0100, Phoenix Gamma <ag...@coventry.ac.uk>
posted via his Tamagotchi Net Link:
*snip*
>I don't think Nintendo have really thought about
>marketing their machine, and -sad is may be- developers just can't be
>bothered with cartridges. I've been glued to Final Fantasy VII for the
>last two weeks, which I absolutely love, and its obvious that nothing is
>big or as vast as that will EVER appear on the N64.
Hey, congrats on getting a PSX. I`m sure you`ll find that there is a
heap of great titles to tide over those, um, "waiting periods".
I have my own theory on the N64 and the carts, but bear in mind that
this is pure speculation. Shigeru Miyamoto said in an interview (in
Edge) that the 64DD was originally planned to be an integrated part of
the N64 and NOT a separate unit. They decided to abandon this idea
though, to cut down on costs. So what happens when you remove the main
storage medium? Well, you find another, which throws up two
alternatives, CD or cart. Going CD is out of the question though. They
already tried this with SNES, but screwed Sony in the deal and ended
up with a ditched protoype and piss-poor relations with Sony. So that
leaves us with carts. This theory sort of explains the horrid delays
that the N64 suffered before it was released and why the initial games
line-up was so meagre (games originally planned for disks had to be
re-worked for carts). This is why I find it hilarious when people try
to convince me that Nintendo CHOSE to go with carts because it`s such
a superior medium... Anyone with a working pair of eyes and an
unbiased mind can see the obvious benefits CD offers.
And yes! This IS opinion! It IS speculation! So keep your pants on,
folks!
Jared
Keep my pants on?? Aww... but I wanted to take them off! :)
I think that what Ander's posted here seems to make sense. It would have
been nice to have the 64DD integrated within the N64 to begin with. I just
hope they release it soon. There are a couple of 64DD titles that sound good.
Darien Allen
And the holy hosts all joined in as Jared
<zach...@mailhost1.csusm.edu> gifted us with these words:
> First, if I read your posts wrong sorry. Second, chill, if it was an accident. Geez.
>Third, I dont give a rip that *you* still say its not *ever* coming. Fine, whatever.
>We'll see. I think Nintendo is still going to release it. I would merely ask for that
>news article by Nintendo saying "Sorry, we're not releasing it." We'll see...
> Hold my breath... your posts just get more cliche....
The don't get cliche, they've been cliche...because I have to repeat
myself multiple times until you understand...BTW I'm not saying it's
not coming, I'm just saying that I don't expect to see it until
earliest next summer.
Darien Allen
> Keep my pants on?? Aww... but I wanted to take them off! :)
> I think that what Ander's posted here seems to make sense. It would have
>been nice to have the 64DD integrated within the N64 to begin with. I just
>hope they release it soon. There are a couple of 64DD titles that sound good.
My Miyamoto hinted during an interview that originally that had been
the plan but apparently costs issues(wanting to make it easy to make
it come out a competitive price point.
Too bad because if it had been able to come out at a price point with
the 64DD as part of the core unit...things would be VERY different
right now.
Brian Mueller
Phoenix Gamma wrote:
>I don't think Nintendo have really thought about
>marketing their machine, and -sad is may be- developers just can't be
>bothered with cartridges. I've been glued to Final Fantasy VII for the
>last two weeks, which I absolutely love, and its obvious that nothing is
>big or as vast as that will EVER appear on the N64.
Speaking of things like this, what happened to Atari? Their web site
apparently doesn't have a DNS entry, and InterNIC searches return no
matches.
I heard they got bought out by a hard drive company, is that right? If
so, are they basically dead?
----
Brian Mueller
E-mail: mulder78 at ix dot netcom dot com
20 year old male, in Morgan Hill, California, USA
(ten miles south of San Jose, California)