3D Realms Licenses Quake II Engine for Duke Nukem Forever
Charlie Wiederhold
On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:45:59 GMT, metal...@mailbox.swipnet.se
(Anders Simonsson) wrote:
>
>(press release snipped)
>
>Can you hear that sound? All over the Net, people who used to post
>"Duke Rules! Quake Sucks!" messages are grinding their teeth in
>frustration...
Ummmmmmmmmmm no. I am one of those Duke fans, and when I heard the
news I was overjoyed. Now the world will get to see what kind of game
can really be developed by a company who knows what fun is. Duke fans
never discounted the superiority of the Quake engine... just that as a
game the engine sucks.
If you want to find out why Quakers are the actual ones grinding their
teeth, read the press release at www.3drealms.com about the awards
Duke has won.
No, better yet... let me list them here for the rest of the world to
see:
"For the second year in a row, Duke Nukem 3D, by 3D Realms
Entertainment, and published by GT Interactive, won the coveted
Spotlight Award at the annual Computer Game Developers Convention
(CDGC). Duke won in the "Best Action Game" category, beating
an incredibly impressive list of contenders: Tomb Raider, Quake, Super
Mario 64 and Tekken 2.
The CDGC, which ended yesterday, had over 5000 attendees, mostly
comprised of game developers from around the world. The CDGC
is the premier convention for developers, and the Spotlight Award
winners are selected by developers (not the press), giving these
awards special meaning since they represent the recognition of
industry peers. "
Ok... that is one large portion of it... now on to the rest:
"Also announced at the CGDC were the Golden Fire Hydrant Awards, by
Happy Puppy (www.happypuppy.com), the largest game site on the web.
Duke Nukem 3D won eight awards of the 28 given, more than any other
game. (For comparison, Quake won one award and Tomb Raider won one
award). These awards are selected by game players who voted for their
favorite games on the Happy Puppy web site.
Once again, Duke Nukem 3D won "Best Action Game," as well as these
categories: "Best Audio Effects," "Best Original Character," "Best Use
of Adult Theme," "Best Gratuitous Violence," "Funniest Line in a
Game," "Best Use of Sarcasm" and "Best Cheats." "
So... I ask you... who do you think is grinding their teeth? I as a
Duke fan am perfectly happy, and I eagerly await Shadow Warrior, Prey,
and Duke Nukem Forever from 3D Realms. Enjoy.
*****************************************************
Charlie Wiederhold
wie...@cs.utexas.edu
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/wieder/
Sunstorm Interactive - Programmer/Level Designer
http://www.sunstormint.com
Legend Entertainment - Level Designer
http://www.legendent.com
Check out Wheel of Time from Legend Entertainment!
http://www.wheeloftime.com
SAS
>
>On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:45:59 GMT, metal...@mailbox.swipnet.se
>(Anders Simonsson) wrote:
>
>>
>>(press release snipped)
>>
>>Can you hear that sound? All over the Net, people who used to post
>>"Duke Rules! Quake Sucks!" messages are grinding their teeth in
>>frustration...
>
>Ummmmmmmmmmm no. I am one of those Duke fans, and when I heard the
>news I was overjoyed. Now the world will get to see what kind of game
>can really be developed by a company who knows what fun is. Duke fans
>never discounted the superiority of the Quake engine... just that as a
>game the engine sucks.
<snip>
Puhhhlleeezzzeeee. Let's not bring this old doughnut out of the
cabinet, again. Ugh! Does anyone *really* care about this anymore?
Sal/Dallas
Charlie Wiederhold
On Thu, 01 May 1997 13:11:35 GMT, nospam....@airmail.net (SAS)
wrote:
>>>Can you hear that sound? All over the Net, people who used to post
>>>"Duke Rules! Quake Sucks!" messages are grinding their teeth in
>>>frustration...
>>
>>Ummmmmmmmmmm no. I am one of those Duke fans, and when I heard the
>>news I was overjoyed. Now the world will get to see what kind of game
>>can really be developed by a company who knows what fun is. Duke fans
>>never discounted the superiority of the Quake engine... just that as a
>>game the engine sucks.
><snip>
>
>Puhhhlleeezzzeeee. Let's not bring this old doughnut out of the
>cabinet, again. Ugh! Does anyone *really* care about this anymore?
This is a new conversation, not the old Duke vs Quake debate. This is
about what is to come regarding 3D Realms purchasing the Quake II
engine and the impilcations. Everything I myself stated was pointing
to why it was a good thing for the game players... because of the
ability of 3D Realms to create quality games.
rj
In article <33683ed...@news.cc.utexas.edu>,
wie...@cs.utexas.edu (Charlie Wiederhold) wrote:
>So... I ask you... who do you think is grinding their teeth? I as a
Not any Quake fans. Sheesh. Do you think we even care Duke won
those awards? The only people who cares are Duke fanatics. The
next Duke Nukem _might_ turn out to be a halfway decent game since
it will be using an engine that is actually good. Of course,
the juvenile BS in Duke never appealed to me anyhows, but maybe
they'll change that for the next one... Ya, I doubt it too.
Quake Mission Pack #1 and #2 have it all over Duke Nukem 2.5D.
I am looking forward to more games from Hip & Rogue & id's Quake2.
Duke Forever has the potential to be a good game, but only if they
gear it towards adults and not 13 year old boys.
rj
--
sig? I don't need no stinkin sig
Charlie Wiederhold
On 1 May 1997 16:09:54 -0400, r...@remove.this.cet.com (rj) wrote:
>In article <33683ed...@news.cc.utexas.edu>,
>wie...@cs.utexas.edu (Charlie Wiederhold) wrote:
>>So... I ask you... who do you think is grinding their teeth? I as a
>
>Not any Quake fans. Sheesh. Do you think we even care Duke won
>those awards? The only people who cares are Duke fanatics. The
Aren't sour grapes wonderful? If you don't care what games win Action
game of the Year as chosen by the developers themselves, then I
question your interest in games themselves. Had Quake won those awards
you would be just as proud of it as I am about Duke being the actual
winner. Like I said... aren't sour grapes wonderful?
prism
>On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:45:59 GMT, metal...@mailbox.swipnet.se
>(Anders Simonsson) wrote:
>
>>
>>(press release snipped)
>>
>>Can you hear that sound? All over the Net, people who used to post
>>"Duke Rules! Quake Sucks!" messages are grinding their teeth in
>>frustration...
>
>Ummmmmmmmmmm no. I am one of those Duke fans, and when I heard the
>news I was overjoyed. Now the world will get to see what kind of game
>can really be developed by a company who knows what fun is. Duke fans
>never discounted the superiority of the Quake engine... just that as a
>game the engine sucks.
>
Amen to that. Quake has an amazing engine but is about as exciting as
Pong. Now that engine is being put to work by people who know what fun
is.
Scott Sendlein
: This is a new conversation, not the old Duke vs Quake debate. This is
: about what is to come regarding 3D Realms purchasing the Quake II
: engine and the impilcations. Everything I myself stated was pointing
: to why it was a good thing for the game players... because of the
: ability of 3D Realms to create quality games.
Hear hear. I feel that Quake has, from the beginning, been a superb engine
in search of a game. It took CTF and various other THIRD PARTY mods to
make Quake something worth playing. If 3DRealms does for the Quake engine
what they did for 2.5D gaming, then we are in for a rocking good time with
Duke Nukem Forever. Just hope DNF will use my Orchid R3D like GLQuake ;-)
--
------Return Address Modified To Reduce Spammage - Delete "*"'s----------
Scott Sendlein _____ _________.____ _____ _______
send...@emi.net / _ \ / _____/| | / _ \ \ \
Kali: _Aslan_ / /_\ \ \_____ \ | | / /_\ \ / | \
/ | \/ \| |___/ | \/ | \
"FD & A10 Aerial \____|__ /_______ /|_______ \____|__ /\____|__ /
Target Drone" \/ \/ \/ \/ \/
--> You know you've landed gear-up when it takes full power to taxi. <--
Charlie Wiederhold
On 2 May 1997 17:50:44 GMT, Scott Sendlein <send...@toledo.emi.net>
wrote:
>Hear hear. I feel that Quake has, from the beginning, been a superb engine
>in search of a game. It took CTF and various other THIRD PARTY mods to
>make Quake something worth playing. If 3DRealms does for the Quake engine
>what they did for 2.5D gaming, then we are in for a rocking good time with
>Duke Nukem Forever. Just hope DNF will use my Orchid R3D like GLQuake ;-)
I assume it probably will. From the little I know about the Quake II
engine, I know that one of the major features is the seamless
inclusion of the extensions of regular quake... like the GL
capabilities. So, yes, I think we are in for a rocking good time too.
Just wish game development didn't take so long... ;)
Rob Merritt
Scott Sendlein <send...@toledo.emi.net> wrote:
>: This is a new conversation, not the old Duke vs Quake debate. This is
>: about what is to come regarding 3D Realms purchasing the Quake II
>: engine and the impilcations. Everything I myself stated was pointing
>: to why it was a good thing for the game players... because of the
>: ability of 3D Realms to create quality games.
>Hear hear. I feel that Quake has, from the beginning, been a superb engine
>in search of a game. It took CTF and various other THIRD PARTY mods to
>make Quake something worth playing. If 3DRealms does for the Quake engine
>what they did for 2.5D gaming, then we are in for a rocking good time with
>Duke Nukem Forever. Just hope DNF will use my Orchid R3D like GLQuake ;-)
I hope DNF will support my Rendition card like Vquake does but since
3D realms has something against Rendition, I am not holding my breath.
But it should support 3Dfx so atlest you will be happy. :-\
Rob Merritt
http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm
dec...@wolfenet.com
Charlie Wiederhold wrote:
>
> On 1 May 1997 16:09:54 -0400, r...@remove.this.cet.com (rj) wrote:
>
> >In article <33683ed...@news.cc.utexas.edu>,
> >wie...@cs.utexas.edu (Charlie Wiederhold) wrote:
> >>So... I ask you... who do you think is grinding their teeth? I as a
> >
> >Not any Quake fans. Sheesh. Do you think we even care Duke won
> >those awards? The only people who cares are Duke fanatics. The
>
> Aren't sour grapes wonderful? If you don't care what games win Action
> game of the Year as chosen by the developers themselves, then I
> question your interest in games themselves. Had Quake won those awards
> you would be just as proud of it as I am about Duke being the actual
> winner. Like I said... aren't sour grapes wonderful?
>
I don't see how winning an award should have much bearing on whether
someone is a serious gamer. Awards are nothing more than hype anyway.
Let's put it this way. Awards have very little to do with my buying
decisions. In the aspect of games the Shareware or demo version have
much more bearing on my buying decisions. If I like a game I buy it(and
if it went down in history as the worse game I wouldn't care. If I
enjoyed it I'd play it). Most of the adds are filled with hype like
PCgamer editor's choice etc etc. But who in their right mind let those
adds have any bearing on whether or not they buy a game or let's hope
have even less to do with hardware they buy. When it comes to hardware
anyone with half a brain does their homework and research on the
hardware first, unless they happen to be highly wealthy, maybe.
If I were to go off hype or how many awards something has everything
sounds great. Doesn't mean it is. And if Quake had gotten an
award(Although it has gotten many from many of more recognized Gaming
mags) then I still wouldn't care. However if a game gets an editor's
choice award or other another magazine's equivilent or favorable review
it might prompt me to try out the demo or shareware version. Then after
playing the demo or SW I would have an idea whether I even thought about
buying the game.
The funny thing is - in this thread it seems like majority of Quake
enthusiasts are happy that Duke Nukem Forever is using the Quake 2
engine. But some Duke fan has to get all defensive like a mac user and
go off on a tangent to attempt to strike a nerve.
If you put that alot of bearing on how many awards a game has as
deciding how good you feel it is, I question your interest in games.
For if you were into gaming alot you really wouldn't care about awards
and care more about how fun the game is for you. How entertaining the
game is all that really counts.
I like Duke Nukem 3d, but I'm not wild about the build engine. Also I
couldn't care which one is considered better. If you like one over the
other buy it. If you like them both buy them both. Play whichever one
is more fun for you. Or play them both instead of questioning this
Newsgroups interest in gaming based on superficial reasoning.
You might like to know that one of the Action/Arcade Nominees of the SPA
Codie awards. But some of the other nominees were in this category
were: Assassin 2015, Descent 2, Hunter Hunted, Rebel Assault II, and
Shattered Steel. I can see Duke3d as being a worthy nominee but can
hardly see Assassin 2015, Hunter Hunted, Shattered Steel, and especially
Rebel Assault II as being worthy. That just goes to show how flawed the
the SPA's review process is.
So what does that tell you about thinking awards are gospel.
Anyway just my 2 cents.
Geof Gibson
dec...@wolfenet.com wrote:
[a whole bunch o' stuff, then...]
> You might like to know that one of the Action/Arcade Nominees of the SPA
> Codie awards. But some of the other nominees were in this category
> were: Assassin 2015, Descent 2, Hunter Hunted, Rebel Assault II, and
> Shattered Steel. I can see Duke3d as being a worthy nominee but can
> hardly see Assassin 2015, Hunter Hunted, Shattered Steel, and especially
> Rebel Assault II as being worthy. That just goes to show how flawed the
> the SPA's review process is.
>
> So what does that tell you about thinking awards are gospel.
>
> Anyway just my 2 cents.
I was at the Codie awards show and those awards are all about who is
connected with the SPA and have nothing to do with quality of software.
Strictly an insider dick sucking fest.
Charlie Wiederhold
On Sat, 03 May 1997 10:50:39 -0700, dec...@wolfenet.com wrote:
>I don't see how winning an award should have much bearing on whether
>someone is a serious gamer. Awards are nothing more than hype anyway.
>Let's put it this way. Awards have very little to do with my buying
>decisions. In the aspect of games the Shareware or demo version have
>much more bearing on my buying decisions. If I like a game I buy it(and
>if it went down in history as the worse game I wouldn't care. If I
>enjoyed it I'd play it). Most of the adds are filled with hype like
>PCgamer editor's choice etc etc. But who in their right mind let those
>adds have any bearing on whether or not they buy a game or let's hope
>have even less to do with hardware they buy. When it comes to hardware
>anyone with half a brain does their homework and research on the
>hardware first, unless they happen to be highly wealthy, maybe.
Yes, you should review for yourself, and make the decision for
yourself. But, what is the entire point of awards? To rewards people
for outstanding accomplishments. Do are you saying any award you have
ever won was just hype and had no meaning behind it? I am proud of the
awards I have won in the past, and would thnk that most other people
would agree with me. As for gaming mag awards... true.. they aren't
the biggest things going on. If you notice which award I focused my
attention on, however... it was the award given at CGDC (Computer Game
Developers Conference just in case you don't know since you kept
referring to mags and I never once mentioned any magazines). This
awards was voted on by the developers at the conference, not the often
easily persuaded media. The actual people who create games, who know
better than anyone else what goes into development of a game. If you
still call that pure hype, then I don't know what to say... I'll just
leave that up to you.
>award(Although it has gotten many from many of more recognized Gaming
>mags) then I still wouldn't care. However if a game gets an editor's
Did you know what the hell I was talking about? I never once mentioned
a single damn magazine. Where the hell did you get this from?
>The funny thing is - in this thread it seems like majority of Quake
>enthusiasts are happy that Duke Nukem Forever is using the Quake 2
>engine. But some Duke fan has to get all defensive like a mac user and
>go off on a tangent to attempt to strike a nerve.
Ummm... it is interesting how people can become disollusioned after
time. Go back and look at how this thread got started. Joe Sielger
posted the original press release from Apogee/3D Realms proudly
stating that they had chosen to use the Quake II engine for Duke
Forever, along with a clear explanation as to why. No shame, no
regrets. Then, a Quaker came in and said:
"Can you hear that sound? All over the Net, people who used to post
"Duke Rules! Quake Sucks!" messages are grinding their teeth in
frustration..."
Then, I replied very clearly and proudly that it wasn't anything we
didn't like, and that in fact I felt it was a good move. Why don't you
actually pay attention to what you are saying. Go back and look at the
thread again. Go look at some message boards on the web. Go into
#duke3d on IRC and ask the dukers there what they think of 3D Realms
pruchasing the Quake II engine. I guarantee without any doubt that you
will hear an overzealous reply that we think it is great and will be
fantastic for 3D Realms, ID, and the gamers themselves. I have never
questioned the choice, and not a single damn Duker I know things it is
bad. It is you freakin Quakers who come in and try to say that it is a
testimony to how far behind 3D Realms is. The whole discussion was
started by a Quaker, and all argument against the choice is by
Quakers. Go back and read this thread... you will see that . To say
that I am being defensive like a mac user is absurd. The only thing I
have done is back up proudly and clearly my opinions. You, my freind,
are the one that seems to be going off on a tangent with that very
comment.
Almost every reply you have made is to people saying that 3D Realms
will do a great job with the Quake II engine... or to people who state
why they think Quake as a game is not as good as Duke as a game. While
I don't think many of those other people stated things very clearly,
you can't say with a clean mind that they had any problems with 3D
Realms using the Quake II engine.
>If you put that alot of bearing on how many awards a game has as
>deciding how good you feel it is, I question your interest in games.
>For if you were into gaming alot you really wouldn't care about awards
>and care more about how fun the game is for you. How entertaining the
>game is all that really counts.
I do not put a major bearing on it, but I do point to them as a way of
measuring the success and overal popularity of a game. You want me to
point to another thing? There was a recent survey... and in that
survey, 45% people supported Duke, and 55% supported Quake. So,
someone would obviously state that Quake is the better game... right?
Well, no... you have to look at the setup for those. First of all, it
was an online survey, so a large portion of the gaming community is
left out. Quake is an internet multiplayer game at heart, and so it
appeals mostly to the online audience. I think it is a testimony to
Duke that of the online gamers 45% of the people still think Duke is a
better game, even though Duke came out quite a while before Quake. It
is still holding strong. Now, what you do with these awards and
surveys, etc... is analize them, and you can see what is going on with
the game, and what kind of merit it holds. Of COURSE the final
decision is up to you as the gamer, but they provide a point to look
to as something tangible. To completely ignore them is absurd. To rely
soley on them is even more absurd. But, they are still important.
>I like Duke Nukem 3d, but I'm not wild about the build engine. Also I
>couldn't care which one is considered better. If you like one over the
>other buy it. If you like them both buy them both. Play whichever one
>is more fun for you. Or play them both instead of questioning this
>Newsgroups interest in gaming based on superficial reasoning.
All I said, was that if you don't care at all who the developers of
the games you play think created the best game in their very own
industry, then I question the level of seriousness in which you hold
your gaming. I never said base your decisions around them, and the
fact that you are having to twist my words constantly through this
thread is really getting old and on my nervers. I play every game I
can get my hands on, and I do play which ones are more important. But,
newsgroups for discussion, and places to question, attack, agree with,
or discuss what other people say. So, I feel that my comment had every
right to be there.
>You might like to know that one of the Action/Arcade Nominees of the SPA
>Codie awards. But some of the other nominees were in this category
>were: Assassin 2015, Descent 2, Hunter Hunted, Rebel Assault II, and
>Shattered Steel. I can see Duke3d as being a worthy nominee but can
>hardly see Assassin 2015, Hunter Hunted, Shattered Steel, and especially
>Rebel Assault II as being worthy. That just goes to show how flawed the
>the SPA's review process is.
>
>So what does that tell you about thinking awards are gospel.
Damn it damn it damn it. I never said it was gospel. I used them as
something tangable to point to that would help provide substance to my
comments. The fact that you are have to resort to elaborate on the
original meaning is enough to show me that you are the one having to
become defensive... the exact thing you accused me of being. As for
the SPA Codie awards... there is a reason why I don't pay attention to
them very much. But, in situations where the actual developers vote on
an award, I do pay attention. CGDC is one of the premier occasions in
the gaming world, and there is a reason why many companies reveal
their biggest news of the year at the convention.
>Anyway just my 2 cents.
Well, I formally return your 2 cents back to you, as they do no one
any good.
Robin Sequiraa
>Duke fans never discounted the superiority of the Quake engine... just
that as a
> game the engine sucks.
Here's how I see it. Quake is more *advanced* (in terms of engine). Duke3D
is more *fun*.
Glenn Wilson
Robin Sequiraa <phu...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<01bc58bc$a3b9f3e0$87f245cf@dad---robin>...
I see it like this. Quake I use all the time, Duke collects dust. Duke with
a the Quake engine will have a good engine though :)
Glenn
George Broussard
> Hear hear. I feel that Quake has, from the beginning, been a superb
engine
> in search of a game. It took CTF and various other THIRD PARTY mods to
> make Quake something worth playing. If 3DRealms does for the Quake
engine
> what they did for 2.5D gaming, then we are in for a rocking good time
with
> Duke Nukem Forever. Just hope DNF will use my Orchid R3D like GLQuake ;-)
Count on the gameplay and the GL support ;)
George Broussard, Pres., 3D Realms
George Broussard
Forever. Just hope DNF will use my Orchid R3D like GLQuake ;-)
>
> 3D realms has something against Rendition, I am not holding my breath.
> But it should support 3Dfx so atlest you will be happy. :-\
It will. BTW we have NOTHING against Rendition, and our current Prey
engine supports Rendition/Verite as well as 3Dfx.
George Broussard
> Not any Quake fans. Sheesh. Do you think we even care Duke won
> those awards? The only people who cares are Duke fanatics. The
> it will be using an engine that is actually good. Of course,
> the juvenile BS in Duke never appealed to me anyhows, but maybe
> they'll change that for the next one... Ya, I doubt it too.
It appealed to someone, as an aweful lot of people bought the first Duke 3D
;)
> Quake Mission Pack #1 and #2 have it all over Duke Nukem 2.5D.
> I am looking forward to more games from Hip & Rogue & id's Quake2.
> Duke Forever has the potential to be a good game, but only if they
> gear it towards adults and not 13 year old boys.
Seeing as how the first Duke sold nearly a million copies, and the new Duke
is based upon the Quake engine, we see nothing but "hit" here.
George Broussard
I agree with your assesment of the Codie awards 100% my friend.
George Broussard, Pres., 3D Realms
Geof Gibson <nag...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<336BF2...@ix.netcom.com>...
> dec...@wolfenet.com wrote:
> [a whole bunch o' stuff, then...]
> > You might like to know that one of the Action/Arcade Nominees of the
SPA
> > Codie awards. But some of the other nominees were in this category
> > were: Assassin 2015, Descent 2, Hunter Hunted, Rebel Assault II, and
> > Shattered Steel. I can see Duke3d as being a worthy nominee but can
> > hardly see Assassin 2015, Hunter Hunted, Shattered Steel, and
especially
> > Rebel Assault II as being worthy. That just goes to show how flawed
the
> > the SPA's review process is.
> >
> > So what does that tell you about thinking awards are gospel.
> >
> > Anyway just my 2 cents.
>
>
Christophe Weibel
Charlie Wiederhold wrote:
> This awards was voted on by the developers at the conference, not the
> often easily persuaded media. The actual people who create games, who
> know better than anyone else what goes into development of a game. If
> you still call that pure hype, then I don't know what to say... I'll
> just leave that up to you.
There are many awards, and both games won some of it. It all depends
from what you are rewarding the game for.
Anyway, Duke and Quake are totally different. Even discounting the fact
that Quake has a 3d-view and Duke a 2.5-view, the game playing is
different, the ambience is different, the whole thing is totally
different. It's like comparing Microsoft Flight Simulator with Wing
Commander.
3Drealms is going to use the Quake II engine. Fine. I don't think
anybody believed they stil would use an old 2.5 engine?
Id Software said themselves that even if 3DRealms used the same engine
as Quake II, the resulting game would have a totally different public.
> I do not put a major bearing on it, but I do point to them as a way of
> measuring the success and overal popularity of a game. You want me to
> point to another thing? There was a recent survey... and in that
> survey, 45% people supported Duke, and 55% supported Quake. So,
> someone would obviously state that Quake is the better game... right?
> Well, no... you have to look at the setup for those. First of all, it
> was an online survey, so a large portion of the gaming community is
> left out. Quake is an internet multiplayer game at heart, and so it
> appeals mostly to the online audience. I think it is a testimony to
> Duke that of the online gamers 45% of the people still think Duke is a
> better game, even though Duke came out quite a while before Quake. It
> is still holding strong.
Well. What I see is that half of the gamers like Quake best, and half
like Duke best. Why should one half try to prove she's right? Why should
anyone prove bananas are better than apples, or something like this?
Christophe
--
Christophe Weibel
__________________________
E-Mail: wei...@dma.epfl.ch
Phone: +33 21 791-2683
Christophe Weibel
prism wrote:
> >Ummmmmmmmmmm no. I am one of those Duke fans, and when I heard the
> >news I was overjoyed. Now the world will get to see what kind of game
> >can really be developed by a company who knows what fun is. Duke fans
> >never discounted the superiority of the Quake engine... just that as
> > agame the engine sucks.
> >
> Amen to that. Quake has an amazing engine but is about as exciting as
> Pong. Now that engine is being put to work by people who know what fun
> is.
Sorry, but you're wrong. You say it isn't exciting, because you don't
like it, because it isn't fun. There are other people, who like other
things. Quake's 3d engine is not its only asset. It has a different
ambience, more scary monsters, and yes, many people prefer that.
Rob Merritt
"George Broussard" <geo...@3drealms.com> wrote:
>George Broussard, Pres., 3D Realms
George,
Can we count on Rendition verite support?
Rob Merritt
http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm
rj
In article <5kk61d$ha3$4...@news7.gte.net>,
"George Broussard" <geo...@3drealms.com> wrote:
>It will. BTW we have NOTHING against Rendition, and our current Prey
>engine supports Rendition/Verite as well as 3Dfx.
This is all fine and dandy George, but I doubt anyone really cares
what the 'current' Prey uses since no one will ever play the 'current'
Prey but you guys. By the time you guys release Prey, the Verite 3000
will probably be released along with 3Dfx's third generation chipset.
Brad Carey
Rob Merritt wrote:
>
> Christophe Weibel <wei...@dma.epfl.ch> wrote:
>
> >prism wrote:
>
> >> >Ummmmmmmmmmm no. I am one of those Duke fans, and when I heard the
> >> >news I was overjoyed. Now the world will get to see what kind of game
> >> >can really be developed by a company who knows what fun is. Duke fans
> >> >never discounted the superiority of the Quake engine... just that as
> >> > agame the engine sucks.
> >> >
>
> >> Amen to that. Quake has an amazing engine but is about as exciting as
> >> Pong. Now that engine is being put to work by people who know what fun
> >> is.
>
> >Sorry, but you're wrong. You say it isn't exciting, because you don't
> >like it, because it isn't fun. There are other people, who like other
> >things. Quake's 3d engine is not its only asset. It has a different
> >ambience, more scary monsters, and yes, many people prefer that.
>
> Quake has scary monsters?
>
> Rob Merritt
> http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm
I'd rather play Quake anyday over Duke3D. I deleted Duke after I bought
Quake. My oppinion....
--
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| Brad C. - ca...@stratos.net |
| Video Games & More - http://members.stratos.net/carey/ |
| Rachel C. - Basket.C...@141.com |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
David Navarro
Rob Merritt wrote:
>
> Christophe Weibel <wei...@dma.epfl.ch> wrote:
>
> >Sorry, but you're wrong. You say it isn't exciting, because you don't
> >like it, because it isn't fun. There are other people, who like other
> >things. Quake's 3d engine is not its only asset. It has a different
> >ambience, more scary monsters, and yes, many people prefer that.
>
> Quake has scary monsters?
>
Scarier than Duke's, that's for sure...
--
_____________________________________________________________
David Navarro
Digital Effects Animator
DreamWorks SKG
As above,
so below.
Rob Merritt
Christophe Weibel <wei...@dma.epfl.ch> wrote:
>prism wrote:
>> >Ummmmmmmmmmm no. I am one of those Duke fans, and when I heard the
>> >news I was overjoyed. Now the world will get to see what kind of game
>> >can really be developed by a company who knows what fun is. Duke fans
>> >never discounted the superiority of the Quake engine... just that as
>> > agame the engine sucks.
>> >
>> Amen to that. Quake has an amazing engine but is about as exciting as
>> Pong. Now that engine is being put to work by people who know what fun
>> is.
>Sorry, but you're wrong. You say it isn't exciting, because you don't
>like it, because it isn't fun. There are other people, who like other
>things. Quake's 3d engine is not its only asset. It has a different
>ambience, more scary monsters, and yes, many people prefer that.
Quake has scary monsters?
Rob Merritt
http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm
Charlie Wiederhold
On Mon, 05 May 1997 15:04:37 +0200, Christophe Weibel
<wei...@dma.epfl.ch> wrote:
>Sorry, but you're wrong. You say it isn't exciting, because you don't
>like it, because it isn't fun. There are other people, who like other
>things. Quake's 3d engine is not its only asset. It has a different
>ambience, more scary monsters, and yes, many people prefer that.
I'll agree with you here... it is alwaysscary to have a huge pile of
spam to come chasing me down a dark hallway.
Charlie Wiederhold
On 5 May 1997 18:26:59 -0400, r...@remove.this.cet.com (rj) wrote:
>>You like the levels of Quake? Well, I commend you on your opinion, but
>>am sorry to say that you are quite alone in that opinion. Plus, notice
>
>Smell in there? Yes, I am referring to the fact that you have your
>head up your ass. There are a ton of people that like the Quake
>levels, or they wouldn't be playing it. Between QuakeWorld
>and Net Quake there are over 2000 people playing Quake on the net
Ok my friend... seeing as you must resort to taking wonderful low
blows... I can already note that you don't have much worthwhile to
say. This was reinforced when I read the rest of your post. Do you
happen to remember what I was talking about when I stated that about
the levels? We were discussing the single player levels and their
value for the SINGLE player game. Ok... lets slow down.. single player
games are where you play against the computer and enemies come out and
go "BOO" and try to scare you, thus trying to keep you from the goal
of finding the exit. Now, Multiplayer games... such as you are
refering to, are where you play against or with many other real human
beings over the net, etc.
Now, go back and read what you said... and think about what *I* was
talking about, and let me know who's head was up who's ass. Catch up
with the conversation before you embarass yourself again.
On another side note, I never once said that multiplayer Quake fell
short in any way to Duke... but since it is seeming to take you a few
weeks to comprehend stuff, I'll wait till next month to talk with you
about that.
>at any one time. Such blind statements show your truly a typical Duke
>worshipper, George would be proud of you.
Ok, I'll admit, I do prefer Duke as a game to everything else out
there. I have yet to be as impressed with basic level design and
immersion in any other game as I was with Duke. Plus, I fight my ass
off for what I believe in, whether it is my opinion or not. Nothing
wrong with that, and what the purpose of these groups are for. As for
George being proud... it doesn't really matter does it. George could
hate me for all I know, but I still prefer Duke single player, and
Quake multiplayer. *shrug* What was your point? Oh yeah... I kinda
like how you note that my comments were "blind statements" and yet you
were the one who couldn't see two inches in front of yourself when you
were talking.
>>the word "WOULD" I used in the sentence. The Duke art is much more
>>diverse, colorful, useful as a level designer, realistic, etc. As for
>>stating opinions... don't you realize that you are doing the same damn
>>thing? I'll refer back to my comment that I don't feel like wating for
>>your mind to catch up with me... so I'll move on.
>
>Your not stating opinion when you state 'am sorry to say that you are
>quite alone in that opinion'. When you extract your head from your
>ass maybe you'll notice that. You are a classic hypocrite.
Yet again, you are way behind what was stated. In the original post,
it was said "It appears to be just your personal opinion........of
course your opinion means nothing to the rest of us....or do you even
realize that?"
So, I said that didn't the person realize that they too were stating
their opinions. Did I ever once say that what I said wasn't opinion? I
dare you to look through this 80+ long thread of messages and find
where it says that my opinions are fact, or anything less than
opinion. Before you call me a hypocrite, look up what you are talking
about. You are a classic moron who speaks before they think. Would you
like to try to embarass yourself again?
>>Of course I play Quake multiplay. I'm not closed minded as much as you
>
>Good deal, let me know when you want to play some QuakeWorld & I'll
>be happy to show you how nice the world looks lying on your side. ;)
Heh... no problem. Just look for someone name "Duke Nukem" and ask if
it is Charlie. Then, we'll let what happens happen.
Emery E. Ca;lame
Robin Sequiraa <phu...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<01bc58bc$a3b9f3e0$87f245cf@dad---robin>...
> >Duke fans never discounted the superiority of the Quake engine... just
> that as a
> > game the engine sucks.
>
> Here's how I see it. Quake is more *advanced* (in terms of engine).
Duke3D
> is more *fun*.
I like Duke 3d better than Quake. I don't like the Build engine better than
the Quake engine. I'm strictly talking release products here and not all
that other stuff. I think pipe bombs were better than the grenade
launcher. The net-lovin patch weavers borrowed the Freeze Gun and the
Shrinker for their patches. That's all fine and dandy.
Duke just had better levels.
I think the Hipnotic and Rogue add on disks for Quake were far better than
Quake itself.
Frankly Quake wasn't that cool of a game in terms of levels, goodies etc.
That's why Duke lasted as long as it did against it. It's not that the
engine was better, just that it was put together with a LOT more loving
care.
That's my opinion anyway.
Em
Todd Smith
"George Broussard" <geo...@3drealms.com> wrote:
>
>> Hear hear. I feel that Quake has, from the beginning, been a superb
>engine
>> in search of a game. It took CTF and various other THIRD PARTY mods to
>> make Quake something worth playing. If 3DRealms does for the Quake
>engine
>> what they did for 2.5D gaming, then we are in for a rocking good time
>with
>> Duke Nukem Forever. Just hope DNF will use my Orchid R3D like GLQuake ;-)
>
>Count on the gameplay and the GL support ;)
>
>George Broussard, Pres., 3D Realms
Are you going to maintain the Verite support? Will you just support
Quake II rendering architecture and whatever id ends up supporting?
I'm sure id will have the new rendering architecture running on some
other hardware other than software, 3Dfx, OpenGL, and Verite. But I
guess we'll have to wait and see.
But it was the people from Verite who did the port right? I guess
we'll have to count on them for Quake II?
Todd
Bill Spencer
Let's just hope each game keeps its own personality... Duke
is clean and bright looking, Quake is dark and dirty, etc., etc.
Christophe Weibel wrote:
> Quake's 3d engine is not its only asset. It has a different
> ambience, more scary monsters, and yes, many people prefer that.
It's EVIL!!!!!
Bill
Fett
OK..enough of this thread. :)
Rob Merritt
David Navarro <bruc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Rob Merritt wrote:
>>
>> Christophe Weibel <wei...@dma.epfl.ch> wrote:
>>
>> >Sorry, but you're wrong. You say it isn't exciting, because you don't
>> >like it, because it isn't fun. There are other people, who like other
>> >things. Quake's 3d engine is not its only asset. It has a different
>> >ambience, more scary monsters, and yes, many people prefer that.
>>
>> Quake has scary monsters?
>>
>Scarier than Duke's, that's for sure...
Thats like saying The Burger King is scarier than Ronld Mcdonld. Sure,
nothing about Duke was scary, but niether was Quake.
Rob Merritt
http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm
rj
In article <336ed3ba...@news.cc.utexas.edu>,
wie...@cs.utexas.edu (Charlie Wiederhold) wrote:
>the levels? We were discussing the single player levels and their
>value for the SINGLE player game. Ok... lets slow down.. single player
Wrong. The paragraph I replied to did not mention single player at all.
You said levels, period. You didn't qualify it, so don't try and
worm your way out of it. Are you a lawyer, or a politician?
>Now, go back and read what you said... and think about what *I* was
>talking about, and let me know who's head was up who's ass. Catch up
Stop your obvious lying and read your own paragraph I replied to. There
was NO mention of single player levels in that paragraph. Qualify your
wording better, we can't read your mind. Nice attempt on the spin, but I
give it a 4 due to lack of originality.
>So, I said that didn't the person realize that they too were stating
>their opinions. Did I ever once say that what I said wasn't opinion? I
You didn't say it was opinion. You state it as fact and it comes off
that way. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
As for your spin attempt, there are people who like the Quake levels
in single player mode so you were wrong either way, no big surprise
there.
>Heh... no problem. Just look for someone name "Duke Nukem" and ask if
>it is Charlie. Then, we'll let what happens happen.
I'll make sure I look for you on QW.
rj, Clan Legends (LGD)
Charlie Wiederhold
On 7 May 1997 13:05:33 -0400, r...@remove.this.cet.com (rj) wrote:
>Wrong. The paragraph I replied to did not mention single player at all.
>You said levels, period. You didn't qualify it, so don't try and
>worm your way out of it. Are you a lawyer, or a politician?
I commend you on your valiant attempt to shoot me down, but I'm afraid
to say that you have yet again missed.
You cropped a paragraph and replied to two sentences from that one
paragraph. Now, lets check this out. (since you accuse me of being a
lawyer or a politician, I will accuse you of being in the media as you
pick and choose what you want to have in your "story")
I go back and read that post, and you will notice what I said we were
discussing, namely, what the entire overall direction of the post, and
pretty much the direction of this thread (at least when I am
replying), is about the aspects where Quake falls short as a single
player game, and where Duke has the edge in that. I have repeatedly
said Quake multiplayer is better than Duke. Oh yeah, as for people
playing QuakeWorld because of the levels... ??? Hmmm I'd have to doubt
that. DM is fun almost anywhere you play it... and if a level even
looks slightly professional people don't think twice about it when
they are playing. I would have to say that people play QuakeWorld for
the connection. It's not like "Ohhhh I get to go play DM6... and oh
yeah, playing 15 other people will be kinda cool."
>Stop your obvious lying and read your own paragraph I replied to. There
>was NO mention of single player levels in that paragraph. Qualify your
>wording better, we can't read your mind. Nice attempt on the spin, but I
>give it a 4 due to lack of originality.
Pay attention to the point behind a post, and what has been pretty
much the entire purpose behind anything I have posted or stated. I
will not qualify my wording any differently, and the reason you can't
read my mind is because your attention span doesn't reach past a
couple of sentences.
People rate "spins" when they can't come up with anything good to say
in return.
>>So, I said that didn't the person realize that they too were stating
>>their opinions. Did I ever once say that what I said wasn't opinion? I
>
>You didn't say it was opinion. You state it as fact and it comes off
>that way. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Ok... the next time I post, I will go through and make sure that every
comment I make is followed up with "This is MY OPINION!!"
Puh-lease! Usenet is one big opinion, with a few posts containing
actual facts about certain things, like press releases, or people
helping each other with games and programs. But, in a thread like
this... good lord if you don't take anything as an opinion you are a
gullible sheep and can't think for yourself.
Why is it so hard for you to understand what I said? It is right
there... "As for stating opinions... don't you realize that you are
doing the same damn thing?"
What does this mean? I am saying... if you break the sentence apart
for your low attention span... that doesn't he realize he is doing the
same thing... which means, that I am stating an opinion, and he has
done the same. Wait, maybe I need to define what the word same means
so you can figure out what was said. Nah, you can't pay attention for
that long anyways... I'll leave it to you to figure out on your own.
>As for your spin attempt, there are people who like the Quake levels
>in single player mode so you were wrong either way, no big surprise
>there.
Sure, there are people who like Quake levels in single player, but
there are also people who like witchhaven, and other such flops.
However (this is my opinion!!!!) if you were to take a poll, you would
find that the majority of the people who have seriously played both
Duke and Quake would prefere the single player level design. Hell,
even Carmack himself said that it falls short in single player.
David Navarro
In my humble opinion, nothing is scarier than Ronald McDonald. He should
be the end of game boss in both Quake and Duke...
As for Duke and Quake, Duke went for the fun and humorous, so the
monsters can't be really scary at the same time. You can't have your
cake and eat it... Playing Quake, though, I never failed to get a jolt
when a fiend jumped at my face, or when I found myself surrounded by
zombies and short on grenades...
Stan Lobunets
In article <z4Kczkw8...@remove.this.cet.com>, r...@remove.this.cet.com
(rj) wrote:
>>Heh... no problem. Just look for someone name "Duke Nukem" and ask if
>>it is Charlie. Then, we'll let what happens happen.
>
>I'll make sure I look for you on QW.
>
>rj, Clan Legends (LGD)
Hehe, after having been taught a couple of lessons by black, impolite, and
magus, I do't envy you, Charlie.
Charlie Wiederhold
On Thu, 08 May 1997 22:44:34 GMT, st...@shredco.com (Stan Lobunets)
wrote:
>>>Heh... no problem. Just look for someone name "Duke Nukem" and ask if
>>>it is Charlie. Then, we'll let what happens happen.
>>
>>I'll make sure I look for you on QW.
>>
>>rj, Clan Legends (LGD)
>
>Hehe, after having been taught a couple of lessons by black, impolite, and
>magus, I do't envy you, Charlie.
Hehe... I'm always up for the challenge, and if I get wasted then I
get wasted... no biggie. Just games... :)
Стас
> Anyway, Duke and Quake are totally different. Even discounting the fact
> that Quake has a 3d-view and Duke a 2.5-view, the game playing is
> different, the ambience is different, the whole thing is totally
> different. It's like comparing Microsoft Flight Simulator with Wing
> Commander.
>
Wing Comander RULEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ,while Flight Simulator
SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
I bet WC is more Quake like when Flight Sim whitch is duke in air.
;)
bye
Scott
Charlie Wiederhold wrote:
>
> On Thu, 08 May 1997 22:44:34 GMT, st...@shredco.com (Stan Lobunets)
> wrote:
>
> >>>Heh... no problem. Just look for someone name "Duke Nukem" and ask if
> >>>it is Charlie. Then, we'll let what happens happen.
> >>
> >>I'll make sure I look for you on QW.
> >>
> >>rj, Clan Legends (LGD)
> >
> >Hehe, after having been taught a couple of lessons by black, impolite, and
> >magus, I do't envy you, Charlie.
>
> Hehe... I'm always up for the challenge, and if I get wasted then I
> get wasted... no biggie. Just games... :)
But Charlie....I thought you were a Duke GOD???? Now your backing off on
your challenge!
--
Mugger[SI]
sco...@cyberlynk.com
http://www.cyberlynk.com/~scottl <- Gamers Corner
Reply to Address altered *<- Remove
*********************************************
The Eikenberrys
In article <01bc59c6$09bb5580$372cc1cf@default>,
more of an atmosphere. I like city levels, and I can't wait until DNF comes
out and uses city levels (I hope. :)
Lordfly
http://www.tdi.net/jberry/
Andrew Arbon
In article <5kon6f$dto$1...@skydiver.jaguNET.com>, Rob Merritt
<rob...@jagunet.com> writes
>David Navarro <bruc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Rob Merritt wrote:
>>>
>>> Christophe Weibel <wei...@dma.epfl.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Sorry, but you're wrong. You say it isn't exciting, because you don't
>>> >like it, because it isn't fun. There are other people, who like other
>>> >things. Quake's 3d engine is not its only asset. It has a different
>>> >ambience, more scary monsters, and yes, many people prefer that.
>>>
>>> Quake has scary monsters?
>>>
>
>>Scarier than Duke's, that's for sure...
>
>Thats like saying The Burger King is scarier than Ronld Mcdonld. Sure,
>nothing about Duke was scary, but niether was Quake.
>
>
>Rob Merritt
>http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm
>
games. I have and play both and they are both excellent for differnt
reasons.
--
Andrew Arbon
Dally Smith
In article <5kon6f$dto$1...@skydiver.jaguNET.com>, Rob Merritt
<rob...@jagunet.com> writes
>David Navarro <bruc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Rob Merritt wrote:
>>>
>>> Christophe Weibel <wei...@dma.epfl.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Sorry, but you're wrong. You say it isn't exciting, because you don't
>>> >like it, because it isn't fun. There are other people, who like other
>>> >things. Quake's 3d engine is not its only asset. It has a different
>>> >ambience, more scary monsters, and yes, many people prefer that.
>>>
>>> Quake has scary monsters?
>>>
>
>>Scarier than Duke's, that's for sure...
>
>Thats like saying The Burger King is scarier than Ronld Mcdonld. Sure,
>nothing about Duke was scary, but niether was Quake.
>
>
>Rob Merritt
>http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm
>
Actually I find Ronnie McDee quite scary, but there you go...
Mike
--
Dally Smith