CounterStrike & The way it SHOULD be played.....
P. Larkin
This is a bit of a rant, but fully open. Treat this message as an RFC;
I've been running a CounterStrike server for a little over a year now.
I've become quite addicted to this game and rarely play anything else
now, with the exception of a little Rune here and there.
Over the past 6 months, I have tried turning our normal run-of-the-mill
CS server into almost a CS Purists server. I'm trying to get people to
understand the concepts of teamplay, of offensive and defensive
tactics, as well as respect for the purpose of the game.
What does this all mean? Well, I started repremanding people for doing
things like bunny hopping, ditching their teams when they're supposed
to be playing defense so they can run out and do some glory killing,
etc.
If you don't understand what i'm talking about; here's an example.
In cs_italy, the CT's are the offensive team. It is their job to get
and rescue the hostages. Rescuing the hostages is more important than
hunting down every last T and killing them. The Terrorist team's job is
to hold the hostages and eliminate any CT threat. This means the
Terrorists are a defensive team. What should a defensive team do?
Well, play defense of course! When italy starts, and both teams
blindly go rushing in to each other, the end result is just a simple
slaughterfest. There is no objective here other than to kill. There
are no tactics other than to shoot fast and shoot a lot.
This completely ruins the game, IMO.. From everything I can gather,
CounterStrike was written as a first person simulator. When you play as
a CT, you should think/act/work/and cooperate with your team like a CT.
The same goes for the T's..
Forcing people to stick to their roles as players isn't as hard as
trying to teach people what teamplay really is. I have sat and watched
people on my team, be it T or CT, allow fellow teammates to be
ambushed from behind because a single individual player wanted to be
able to sneak up and get all the kills themselves. They would allow
their teammates to be slaughtered so they could get ahead. This isn't
teamplay.. this is MEplay.
Over the course of operating this server, I have gotten plenty of 14
year old kids complaining that they should be able to bunny hop. They
should be able to sacrifice their whole team for their own personal
"statz". It sickens me.
We run stats on our server every day as well. I've always used stats as
a way to show me how I am playing in comparison to others. Am I
completing my objectives? Am I dying too much? What weapons am I most
vulerable to? Stuff like that. I think many people play for the
purpose of aquiring the best stats, as opposed to using stats to show a
player where they fit into the scheme of things.
Well, this about concludes my rant. If any of you people like playing
CS the way it was meant to play; I would LOVE your input! And your
presense on our server!
What do you all think?
Paul L. - AKA: Apophis
Network 42 CounterStrike
208.144.240.104:27015
http://www.xlii.com
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Gilbert Grape the III
the game prior to ruining it for their own selfish motives. Geez, it's not
about how many frags you end up with, it's about meeting the objectives of
the game & the overall CT -vs- T wins. Leave the frag counts to Deathmatch
or Quake type games.
I've played on servers where the offensive team would just camp and wait for
the opposition to make the first move. How lame... mean while the few
players going offensive (as should be) gets ambushed because there's no
backup firepower.
I believe you would tend to see this type of B.S. on a Clan match.
"P. Larkin" <fr...@xlii.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.15b3b3fc...@nntp.bx.net...
P. Larkin
> Great post Larkin. I suggest everyone should understand the objectives of
> the game prior to ruining it for their own selfish motives. Geez, it's not
> about how many frags you end up with, it's about meeting the objectives of
> the game & the overall CT -vs- T wins. Leave the frag counts to Deathmatch
> or Quake type games.
>
> I've played on servers where the offensive team would just camp and wait for
> the opposition to make the first move. How lame... mean while the few
> players going offensive (as should be) gets ambushed because there's no
> backup firepower.
>
> I believe you would tend to see this type of B.S. on a Clan match.
>
Heh, I usually tell those frag-happy non teamplaying bastards to go
play normal HalfLife rather than CS when I see how they play. We're
slowly developing a good following of people who know how to play the
game. We just have to work on getting rid of the idiots..
XXrcgXX
remember....counter-strike is a game. there is no set way to play it. just
becuase the objective is to rescue hostages, doesnt mean we cant go out and
have a fragfest. just because people enjoy playing a certain way doesnt make
them "idiots"
P. Larkin
xxr...@home.com says...
> remember....counter-strike is a game. there is no set way to play it. just
> becuase the objective is to rescue hostages, doesnt mean we cant go out and
> have a fragfest. just because people enjoy playing a certain way doesnt make
> them "idiots"
I admit, different people will enjoy playing the game different ways.
And maybe I was wrong blanketly calling people idiots that want to play
a fragfest. But that's the purpose of the rant, I got all my feelings
on the subject out in the open and then people talk about it.
Personally, I don't want to run a fragfest server. We have both normal
HL and Rune servers for that. I run CS for the teamplay and strategy,
and people playing on my server have to play by those rules.
I am happy to see others out there that also want to play based on the
game objectives.
But you are right, those people who want a fragfest are not idiots.
They just enjoy the game in a different manner than I do..
Jamie
I say good work! This might be more effective if you developed a
registered community of players and then passworded your server. Just
post the password to the members section of your website.
Jamie
w2kbolo
of frags accrued is not the only factor in terms of ranking. what if:
- number of kills only affected 33% of your ranking
- teamplay(backing up your teammates, killing the enemy before he kills your
teammate, etc) would effect another 33% of the ranking.
- objective completion would effect the remaining 33%.
this type of ranking would probably condition players to think of it as team
play rather than fodderfest. a player can have a frag attack and kill
everyone in site, but if he does note suffice the other 2 criterias, he'll
only recive a 1/3 of his actual value. the only problem is this would
require a new build of CS to be implemented. what do you think?
"P. Larkin" <fr...@xlii.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.15b3d81a8...@nntp.bx.net...
P. Larkin
says...
> perhaps a different form of ranking should be implemented so that the number
> of frags accrued is not the only factor in terms of ranking. what if:
> - number of kills only affected 33% of your ranking
> - teamplay(backing up your teammates, killing the enemy before he kills your
> teammate, etc) would effect another 33% of the ranking.
> - objective completion would effect the remaining 33%.
>
> this type of ranking would probably condition players to think of it as team
> play rather than fodderfest. a player can have a frag attack and kill
> everyone in site, but if he does note suffice the other 2 criterias, he'll
> only recive a 1/3 of his actual value. the only problem is this would
> require a new build of CS to be implemented. what do you think?
>
I've thought about something like that for a while now. I think
where/how you die in proximity to your teammates should matter. I don't
know how many times i've jumped in front of a bomb carrier to take
bullets and die for them so they can plant the bomb. That's GOT to be
worth something.
I've come to appreciate the log_anal stats a little more. I especially
like how it ranks you in comparison to the people you kill. So a 4100
skill player can play for hours against a 1000 skill player and at the
end of it, even though their final score is 75-2, their skill level
goes down because of the ranking of the people they've killed. You
shouldn't get points for killing people that aren't that good..
Having objective completion as a major part of the stats I agree. It's
very important and SHOULD carry more weight in most stats packages than
it does.
--
----------------------------------------
P. Larkin
In article <dbf6c5c2.01070...@posting.google.com>,
jamie_marke...@yahoo.ca says...
>
> I say good work! This might be more effective if you developed a
> registered community of players and then passworded your server. Just
> post the password to the members section of your website.
>
I need to get more regular teamplay oriented players on the server
first. We have a pretty good collection, but just not enough to keep
the activity up. We have to tolerate the people who are not
team/objective focused just so we have someone to kill!
I actually got a comment last week from a guy playing, he said that he
really loved the server because of the teamplay mentality and that even
though the admins were really tough in regards to getting people to
follow the rules, it was one of the best servers he's played on. Then
he thanked me. Now THAT is a first! Most players don't appreciate
their admins; the people who have brought these dedicated multiplayer
servers to the masses at their own expense...
--
----------------------------------------
P. Larkin
>
It's in Providence, RI. It's sitting in the Network Operations Center
for my company. All the engineers in the NOC are CounterStrike addicts,
so it's a nice after-work stress relief activity for us!
It's well connected with fractional DS3's to both the UUNET/WorldCOM and
Cable & Wireless backbones.
--
----------------------------------------
Dread
like-minded man... how rare.. ROTF
--
--
Vsevo khoroshogo,
Dread
"People who think they know it all REALLY annoy those of us who do!"
"P. Larkin" <fr...@xlii.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.15b3b3fc...@nntp.bx.net...
<snip>
Dread
want to work as a team. There's no shame in wanting a fragfest. Everyone
is entitled to how they want to play. If you like deathmatch.. great.. so
do I... And that is what Team Arena and UT is all about. CS is for
teamwork.. My clan works on the buddy system all the time. I've got a full
time partner. He covers my back. I cover his. We both cover our team.
--
--
Vsevo khoroshogo,
Dread
"People who think they know it all REALLY annoy those of us who do!"
"XXrcgXX" <xxr...@home.com> wrote in message
news:rLn27.18487$PF2.3...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
14941
>a way to show me how I am playing in comparison to others.
I'm not real familiar with how stats programs work, but programs such as Psycho
Stats use a skill point total as the overall rating, which is composite total
of many different variables achieved in the game. Perhaps if you could tweak
the algebraic equation that compiles the skill points to add emphasis to
team-oriented objectives such as saving the hostages/VIP or planting/defusing
the bomb, this would give the stat whores more incentive to work together and
accomplish the goals the game was intended to have accomplished, rather than
promote the deathmatchy climate that is the CS standard. Just a thought.
-onefourninefourone
-pointless homepage http://members.aol.com/one4nine4one
-personal boredom killer http://www.mp3.com/subgod
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Ronald A. Morba
you can keep them off the server.
Jamie <jamie_marke...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:dbf6c5c2.01070...@posting.google.com...
The Meddler
[snip]
>I've thought about something like that for a while now. I think
>where/how you die in proximity to your teammates should matter. I don't
>know how many times i've jumped in front of a bomb carrier to take
>bullets and die for them so they can plant the bomb. That's GOT to be
>worth something.
On my clan site we have a ranking system where
9 kills = 1 win
9 deaths = 1 loss
1 defuse = 1win
4 hostages = 1 win
Plants are a little bit tricky because they can also lead to a loss, so
4 plants = appoximately 3 wins and 1 loss. It is only an approximation,
because I use the actual ratio of plants to defuses.
Divide the wind by the losses and you have your rank.
Basically completing your objectives counts towards your score almost as much
as your kills. It worked quite well until the UK2 servers stats started going
screwy. Now we are lucky to see any statst at all :-(
I also calculate the amount of money you earn per hour. This is a nice measure
because it uses the weighting that CS gives the various actions and takes into
account the fact that touching a hostage gives your teammates money, which can
contribute to your team's success.
--
[TCSUK} http://www.tactical.uklinux.net
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
stinkbutt
>Well, this about concludes my rant. If any of you people like playing
>CS the way it was meant to play; I would LOVE your input! And your
>presense on our server!
>
>What do you all think?
>
I think its great, as long as you arent really anal about it. Ive seen
a lot of admins ban people for camping, with no warning at all. I was
even kicked from a server because I wouldnt defuse the bomb when I
knew the very last T was right around the corner. As far as teamplay
is concerned, most people arent used to playing as a team, so make
sure you communicate that to people instead of using the 'kicking
first and asking questions later' method. I'm definitley going to
check out your server
*-Stinkbutt-*
-*-*0o0o0*-*-
Asha
This sounds like the gameplay i have looked for and not been able to find.
It really frustrates me when people with the most kills state that "I win"
when there is a map change, even though their team has gotten a heavy
beating. I have heard that a lot. And plenty of other selfish examples. Ill
check out your server later and see whether i get a reasonalbe ping, i am in
the netherlands so ...
grtz Asha
"P. Larkin" <fr...@xlii.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.15b3b3fc...@nntp.bx.net...
Asha
ping with 1000ms but got timeouts ;)
well i am sure there are other nice people around :)
grtz Asha
"Asha" <dus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b4b1158$0$14026$e4fe...@newszilla.xs4all.nl...
Gilbert Grape the III
> becuase the objective is to rescue hostages, doesnt mean we cant go out
and
> have a fragfest. just because people enjoy playing a certain way doesnt
make
> them "idiots"
Ofcourse anyone is entitled to their own way of playing the game. However
they should still respect others for wanting to play the game in a
coop-manner or the way it was designed to be played. I mean if you want a
fragfest, go play some other games with DM mods. Team work is crucial to the
game of CS.
[TiC-G]Oblivion
Nice job and I wish all admins (and players) shared your view.
Think how much fun that would be!
O.
On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:29:22 -0400, P. Larkin <fr...@xlii.nospam.com>
wrote:
P. Larkin
@hotmail.com says...
> hmm bummer unless your server is down i wont be playing on it :( tried to
> ping with 1000ms but got timeouts ;)
>
> well i am sure there are other nice people around :)
>
> grtz Asha
We're actually moving some stuff around our network today. So service
to the CS server is going to be a little shaky for the next few hours.
P. Larkin
@hotmail.com says...
> Great great!
> This sounds like the gameplay i have looked for and not been able to find.
> It really frustrates me when people with the most kills state that "I win"
> when there is a map change, even though their team has gotten a heavy
> beating. I have heard that a lot. And plenty of other selfish examples. Ill
> check out your server later and see whether i get a reasonalbe ping, i am in
> the netherlands so ...
>
> grtz Asha
>
Great! I hope to see ya there! We've had quite a few people from the
netherlands playing, tons of people from Germany too.
Master-Of-Puppets
[TiC-G]Oblivion <CD...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:uv8mktgic8gigajjc...@4ax.com...
burnt bread
(Deathmatch) and "me, me, me, me", "I really need to get high stats", "I'll
hide and watch them kill you and then jump out and kill them when they're
reloading or turn their back", "To hell with the bombcarrier I'm going to
run out and kill everyone because I'm no wuss" ... and etc. Some seem to
think when they're score is 24-3 that makes them a better CS player than
someone whose score is 12-18 because he/she has been taking hits for the
bombcarrier or performing other teamplay acts to meet the CS objective.
Nice to see someone has a server committed to teamplay. I'm there! Nice ping
too!
"P. Larkin" <fr...@xlii.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.15b3b3fc...@nntp.bx.net...
>
The Meddler
>This is truly right on the money! CS is about Teamplay -- not a fragfest
>(Deathmatch) and "me, me, me, me", "I really need to get high stats", "I'll
>hide and watch them kill you and then jump out and kill them when they're
>reloading or turn their back", "To hell with the bombcarrier I'm going to
>run out and kill everyone because I'm no wuss" ... and etc. Some seem to
>think when they're score is 24-3 that makes them a better CS player than
>someone whose score is 12-18 because he/she has been taking hits for the
>bombcarrier or performing other teamplay acts to meet the CS objective.
Thats why my clan has its own custom stats. Mind you I was a bit cheesed off
that my team mates stole my hostages off me so they could go and rescue them.
I was really pleased to see last night that one of our lower ranking players
got to 3rd place because he managed to defuse 6 bombs. If he was ranked purely
on kills he would only have rated 6th.
Thomas Sullivan
> What does this all mean? Well, I started repremanding people for doing
> things like bunny hopping, ditching their teams when they're supposed
> to be playing defense so they can run out and do some glory killing,
> etc.
I understand and appreciate your concen. Team play is of utmost
importance and all but abandoned unless you happen to be playing with
a good group.
However, a team playing offense or defense on any map could be
considered strategy. Using Italy as your example, consider that the
Terrorists have been winning and have all the weapons. They might
consider going offensive and kicking the shite out of CT for a few
rounds. In which case, CT is on the defensive and have an opportunity
to camp the shite out of the Terrorists. This stratgey switch is
possible in any CS level *and* a perfectly acceptable strategy in real
life.
[MMI]Half-Dead
but, agreed, teamplay is the most important factor of the game..whatever the
strategies employed
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"Thomas Sullivan" <tom...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:24e5fccd.01071...@posting.google.com...
Dave St.Onge
news:<MPG.15b3b3fc...@nntp.bx.net>...
> <...>
> > What does this all mean? Well, I started repremanding people for doing
> > things like bunny hopping, ditching their teams when they're supposed
> > to be playing defense so they can run out and do some glory killing,
> > etc.
What's the addy to this server?? I would like to give it a try, and get
away from the bunnyhoppers who consider it a *skill*....
Dave
Michael Smith
208.144.240.104
"Dave St.Onge" <sto...@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:dJM47.8396$DL4....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
P. Larkin
208.144.240.104:27015
I'm also looking for regulars who play there to turn into admins. I'm
not looking for people to jump up and down saying "can I pleeeeze be a
l33t adm1n!?", but people who play well and can deal with the people
who just don't get it... And to ban the occasional teleport cheater and
constantly-warned bunny-hopper.
In article <dJM47.8396$DL4....@newsfeed.slurp.net>,
sto...@vianet.on.ca says...
>
> What's the addy to this server?? I would like to give it a try, and get
> away from the bunnyhoppers who consider it a *skill*....
>
--
P. Larkin
I understand that, but it should be a TEAM decision to do something
like that. And often, it's not done as part of strategy, but by
people just wanting to get kills first. But you make a very good point.
In article <24e5fccd.01071...@posting.google.com>,
tom...@pacbell.net says...
>
> I understand and appreciate your concen. Team play is of utmost
> importance and all but abandoned unless you happen to be playing with
> a good group.
> However, a team playing offense or defense on any map could be
> considered strategy. Using Italy as your example, consider that the
> Terrorists have been winning and have all the weapons. They might
> consider going offensive and kicking the shite out of CT for a few
> rounds. In which case, CT is on the defensive and have an opportunity
> to camp the shite out of the Terrorists. This stratgey switch is
> possible in any CS level *and* a perfectly acceptable strategy in real
> life.
>
--
Shane Crowe
>
> This is a bit of a rant, but fully open. Treat this message as an RFC;
>
> Over the course of operating this server, I have gotten plenty of 14
> year old kids complaining that they should be able to bunny hop. They
> should be able to sacrifice their whole team for their own personal
> "statz". It sickens me.
I'm with ya all the way. I also think Counterstrike, itself is to blame. The
game shouldn't keep up with individual stats. People are way to concerned
about their kill-killed ratio than anything else. The game should only keep
up with team statistics. If there were no self-glorifying stats for the
world to see, people might not be as consumed with being at the top of the
stat list.
NickD
I'm fed up of seeing people say "I win! COOL!" even to their team has been massacred every round, but they've 'won' due to their high frag count.
NickD
Phil D.
individual game than it is a team play game, and it is turning into crappy
mods like DM.
"NickD" <nick_d...@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:3b8ed...@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
Phil D.
individual game than it is a team play game, and it is turning into crappy
mods like DM.
"NickD" <nick_d...@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:3b8ed...@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
glimmerung
Yau-ming
Remove the individual scores and only have make team wins count.
Imagine if football players were only judged on the number of tackles you
made. CS is a team game, if they want to get personal frags - they should
play quake.
eternal
defensive at least :)
but i also agree we should put this on the cstrike forums they have a
section for ideas. this would make a great petition.
eternal
"Yau-ming" <nospam_...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:KpUn7.41247$bY5.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Yau-ming
romp around like greek wrestlers, it'd be pretty gay which is what CS is
getting to be like.
What's the cs forum site again?
:)
"eternal" <abc...@skyenet.net.spamfree> wrote in message
news:34Xn7.1$FX3...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
MattC
An example of this is Aztec. The 1.1 release is just a DM type map. I hardly
ever play on it now.
A way to encourage team play would be to just give each team a set amount of
cash if the result of the previous game was that one side got wiped out. Big
cash bonuses should be awarded if the specific objective was carried out, also
give a cash bonus to the guy who planted the bomb (whether it went off or not).
I don't think cash should be given for killing someone (I think each kill gets
$300?)
Matt
=TAG=Neanderthal
"glimmerung" <thegli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nkUn7.21129$iD.29...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Yau-ming
for CS. Both sides usually know what to do and cooperate towards that ends.
Its too big for small teams though.
I'd remove the cash factor altogether and have it so that each team member
gets to chose which combat type he wants to be and is set to that type for
the rest of the round.
If they want to carry an AWP, they can't carry a knife or a pistol or any
grenades unless they pick them up from dead comrades. If they throw their
AWP down and pick it up, that'd take at least 5 seconds.
If they want to carry an MP5 etc.. they can carry a pistol and 10 grenades
(4 HEs), 2 flashbangs and 4 smokes.
"MattC" <ma...@NOSPAMf.co.uk> wrote in message
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