New LoY spell info up.
Devon Bleak
The highlights (with some comments):
Druids get a new 425 point heal at 44. I think they needed this. 300
points through the 40s is pretty weak. *puts duct tape over all the
clerics' whining mouths*
Clerics get a new AC/HP buff at 44.
BSTs get a new DoT at 44 and pet buff at 52. They can also apparently be
dark elves now! (check screenshots)
Enchanters got a lame ultravision/see invis/EB buff (wtf? where's scaled
wolf?), and a new mana tap over time. Short duration (10 ticks) on it,
long recast. But it's FT50, so can't _really_ argue with it.
Mages got a HoT for the pet. And a new pet buff.
Necros got a group lifetap over time. Sounds kinda interesting. And a
new FD spell.
Pallies got a new HoT and a new 410 point heal.
Rangers got a new DoT and DD. DD is a nice upgrade to firestrike, cold
based, which will give us a little more versatility. The DoT looks
pretty craptastic.
SKs got a new DoT and FD.
Shapeople got an interesting new HoT at 44:
Heals 160 hit points every 6 seconds (24 second duration)
-30% attack speed
Decreases movement by 100%
Wizards got a see invis/infravision buff at 44, and a new 600 point cold
nuke at 52.
All the priest classes also got a new Cure Poison/Disease spell at 52.
Meerina Spawndancer
53 Pathfinder
Mysarr
43 Enchanter
Amalena
39 Druid
Incantare, Karana Server
Darktyger
<de...@NbrOicSkhPutA.cMom> wrote:
>Shapeople got an interesting new HoT at 44:
....shapeople?
--
Dark Tyger, keeper of the Nerf Railgun(tm)
Kahir Rhom, Vah'shir BST of the 51st calling - Tunare
<and way too many others to list>
"And I wonder, when I sing along with you
If everything could ever feel this real forever
If anything could ever be this good again"
-Foo Fighters, Everlong
JoeBlow
> Heals 160 hit points every 6 seconds (24 second duration)
> -30% attack speed
> Decreases movement by 100%
Do I understand this correctly when I think that
it heals the target, but roots them and reduces
their attack speed?
If so, when would you use this? If someone needs
to be healed (ie. they are tanking) the last thing
you want is for them to be rooted and slowed...
kaev
IIRC, Torpor (which this is a lesser version of) was the most desired
Shaman spell in the game, pre-PoP (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm
wrong about that). This is a spell which you would mostly use on
casters, it's especially good for Shamans and Necromancers who can
convert their hp into mana.
Tim Smith
> Do I understand this correctly when I think that it heals the target, but
> roots them and reduces their attack speed?
>
> If so, when would you use this? If someone needs to be healed (ie. they
> are tanking) the last thing you want is for them to be rooted and
> slowed...
The healing/mana ratio looks like it is 3.56 to 1. That's pretty good,
compared to the other heals the Shaman has at that level. That would make
it good for healing between fights.
It could also be useful when the Shaman is healing casters. My Wizard
doesn't really care if his attack speed is slowed. :-) (Last time he swung
his staff at anything, it was a giant in Kael, just for the hell of it...and
the damn thing riposted for about 120).
--
Evidence Eliminator is worthless: "www.evidence-eliminator-sucks.com"
--Tim Smith
James Hicks
YESS!!! *finally* Shadowknight get exactly what we need out of an
expansion!
IE *yet* another fuck-useless DoT and another feign death. That's three
now, or four if you've got the red pants. Our feign pulling abilities WERE
sadly lacking of course. When not feign pulling its a vaguely good upgrade
to feign death... but still I wouldn't have put an improved feign anywhere
near the top of our list of priorities for a 52 spell.
And what a dot! at level 44 and above 180dmg in 36 seconds is.....
er..... so useless you can carve it. Still, it's almost as powerful as the
DoT *clerics* get at 39 so why complain ;)
I know what I wont be blowing my money on any time soon <beam>
I still think we should get foraged vegetables as a pet. It would be
more open and honest.
At least duoing with a shaman will be ever *more* of a romp :)
Trev
If you want *uber* dots and pets, play a necro. /shrug
Remorayn Foxxfyre, 59 Ranger
James Hicks
>
> If you want *uber* dots and pets, play a necro. /shrug
>
> Remorayn Foxxfyre, 59 Ranger
Don't want 'em uber, but just a little more powerful... actually I think
my 52 pet will change my outlook on that, the 49 one actually does damage
and *can* tank for the 3 seconds i need to changeover from kiting to fear
kiting (I don't pull with snare cos it takes too long to get to the start of
the safe-pathe)
But dots... oh baby. A level 48 sk has dots that *Stack* to (from
memory) 428 over 1.5 mins.... thats if you cast all three on a mob. The
casting time of all three added up takes more damage out of your melee
output than 428 with any weapon a 48 sk is likely to be holding. Our
nastiest dot at that level is 174hp.... (my car has more hp)
NOT that I'm complaining. I love my "annoy monster" dots and my foraged
vegetables pet. But another lame DoT isn't going to make me buy legend of
ya'cashier :)
Cheers,
James
Darktyger
<jhi...@hiddenmail.nyer> wrote:
> But dots... oh baby. A level 48 sk has dots that *Stack* to (from
>memory) 428 over 1.5 mins.... thats if you cast all three on a mob. The
>casting time of all three added up takes more damage out of your melee
>output than 428 with any weapon a 48 sk is likely to be holding. Our
>nastiest dot at that level is 174hp.... (my car has more hp)
Welcome to the wonderful world of hybrids.
sanjian
news:kngd5v0ntuunrcerb...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 00:18:16 GMT, Devon Bleak
> <de...@NbrOicSkhPutA.cMom> wrote:
>
> >Shapeople got an interesting new HoT at 44:
>
> ....shapeople?
Because sha*men* would be sexist.
Darktyger
Trev
<dark...@overthere.nothere> wrote:
>On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 04:25:30 +1100, "James Hicks"
><jhi...@hiddenmail.nyer> wrote:
>
>> But dots... oh baby. A level 48 sk has dots that *Stack* to (from
>>memory) 428 over 1.5 mins.... thats if you cast all three on a mob. The
>>casting time of all three added up takes more damage out of your melee
>>output than 428 with any weapon a 48 sk is likely to be holding. Our
>>nastiest dot at that level is 174hp.... (my car has more hp)
>
>Welcome to the wonderful world of hybrids.
Hear hear! You'll note that I play a ranger James, so I know of what
I speak..but I also understand class balancing...SKs are arguably the
second best tank class in the game (see the current thread on that
very subject), so therefore, giving SKs more powerful pets and dots
runs the risk of making Necros redundant. Think of your pet and your
dot spells as just one more tool with which to punish your enemy..in
your case, your melee abilities are your forte, but you can also
unleash a baby pet on them and dump a few dots on them. I'm happy
with the current line up of ranger spell abilities, and SKs don't
strike me as being any worse off.
Remorayn Foxxfyre, 59 Outrider
Magpie13
Reminds me of the group 'The Shamen'. They didn't realize at the time
'Shaman' was not a gender-specific term. Just a title. Has no gender or
plural modifiers. Like the word 'Human'.
Anyway, looking forward to my extra bank slots!
Drywit
"Darktyger" <dark...@overthere.nothere> wrote in message
news:96ff5vospipqv99n9...@4ax.com...
Dennis Francis Heffernan
wrote:
| But dots... oh baby. A level 48 sk has dots that *Stack* to (from
|memory) 428 over 1.5 mins.... thats if you cast all three on a mob. The
|casting time of all three added up takes more damage out of your melee
|output than 428 with any weapon a 48 sk is likely to be holding. Our
|nastiest dot at that level is 174hp.... (my car has more hp)
What kind of DPS do you think you're doing at level 48?
Dennis F. Heffernan EQ: Venture Fletcher(E'ci) heff...@comcast.net
#include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"It's better some times if we don't get to touch our dreams."
-- Harry Chapin
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|Because sha*men* would be sexist.
The plural of shaman is shaman.
The Uber Nukah
been waiting a long time for a spell like this, because most wizards don't
have infravision :) and no wizards have familiars that grant us See Invis
from before either :) All this at level 44 oh boy! Get ready for the nerf
bat when this hits the market!
I was hoping they would give us an MGB True North spell or something that
was atleast funny since they cannot give us something usefull.
"Devon Bleak" <de...@NbrOicSkhPutA.cMom> wrote in message
news:Xns9329C45D8F943de...@204.127.199.17...
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|Think of your pet and your
|dot spells as just one more tool with which to punish your enemy..in
|your case, your melee abilities are your forte, but you can also
|unleash a baby pet on them and dump a few dots on them.
I just pulled up Lucy and ground the numbers...with the new DoT, a 48 SK
can stack four dots on a mob (Blood of Pain, Heart Flutter, Heat Blood,
Engulfing Darkness) for 784 damage over 72 seconds. That's casting Blood of
Pain (the new one) twice, since it only runs 36 seconds. It takes almost 14
seconds to do all that casting, so the SK in question would have to be pushing
over 55 DPS to outdamage that with melee output in that time.
I currently have access to a 49 Ranger with a Lamentation/Centi LS and
Silver Chitin Hand Wraps; she pushes close to 30 DPS (parsed with a real-time
parser). There is no fucking way a 48 SK is putting out more DPS than that
without a level of twinking that doesn't bear thinking about.
David Navarro
> Heh.
>
> Reminds me of the group 'The Shamen'. They didn't realize at the time
> 'Shaman' was not a gender-specific term. Just a title. Has no gender
> or plural modifiers. Like the word 'Human'.
Heh... "The Shamen" are the reason I use shamen as a plural for shaman.
Call it an homage... I never thought I could enjoy techno until I came
across "Boss Drum".
--
Hanrahan Thornhide, Human Druid, 59, Fennin Ro
Pavlov's Dog and Schrodinger's Cat walk into a bar...
James Hicks
> |dot spells as just one more tool with which to punish your enemy..in
> |your case, your melee abilities are your forte, but you can also
> |unleash a baby pet on them and dump a few dots on them.
>
> I just pulled up Lucy and ground the numbers...with the new DoT, a 48 SK
> can stack four dots on a mob (Blood of Pain, Heart Flutter, Heat Blood,
> Engulfing Darkness) for 784 damage over 72 seconds. That's casting Blood
of
> Pain (the new one) twice, since it only runs 36 seconds. It takes almost
14
> seconds to do all that casting, so the SK in question would have to be
pushing
> over 55 DPS to outdamage that with melee output in that time.
>
> I currently have access to a 49 Ranger with a Lamentation/Centi LS and
> Silver Chitin Hand Wraps; she pushes close to 30 DPS (parsed with a
real-time
> parser). There is no fucking way a 48 SK is putting out more DPS than
that
> without a level of twinking that doesn't bear thinking about.
Was I counting blood of pain? I don't think so. Are you counting fizzles
and interruptions? I don't think so.
I wonder what DPS I'm doing with the BAH and the FBSS.... bet its not 55
DPS but is it enough to not bother casting dots even if I had blood of pain?
yyyyyyyyyyyup!
James Hicks
> |memory) 428 over 1.5 mins.... thats if you cast all three on a mob. The
> |casting time of all three added up takes more damage out of your melee
> |output than 428 with any weapon a 48 sk is likely to be holding. Our
> |nastiest dot at that level is 174hp.... (my car has more hp)
>
> What kind of DPS do you think you're doing at level 48?
48..... had a FBSS and a weighty polearm..... not sure but with that
combo all of those spells adding up to even 10 seconds would usually be not
worth it... or so minorly advantageous as to be not worth clicking the
buttons - not to mention wasting mana that can be used on nukes ;)
Tim Smith
> Great to see wizards get another Infravision and See Invis spell! I have
> been waiting a long time for a spell like this, because most wizards don't
> have infravision :) and no wizards have familiars that grant us See Invis
> from before either :) All this at level 44 oh boy! Get ready for the nerf
> bat when this hits the market!
Hey, it is a componentless buff that is *not* self-only. That's news for
Wizards. For those who don't play Wizards, here's the buffs we can cast on
others (from memory, so maybe I've skipped one or two):
1. Invisibility
2. See invisible
3. Levitate (requires bat wing)
4. O'Keils {radiation|embers|something else} (small damage shield, and
increases fire resistance)
The rest of our buffs (infravison, ultravision, HP, AC, magic resist, cold
resist, better fire resist than O'Keils, damage absorption, mana
regeneration) are all self-only.
Simond
"James Hicks" <jhi...@hiddenmail.nyer> wrote in message
news:heH5a.4$Xc1....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
> > SKs got a new DoT and FD.
>
> YESS!!! *finally* Shadowknight get exactly what we need out of an
> expansion!
>
> IE *yet* another fuck-useless DoT and another feign death. That's
three
> now, or four if you've got the red pants. Our feign pulling abilities WERE
> sadly lacking of course. When not feign pulling its a vaguely good upgrade
> to feign death... but still I wouldn't have put an improved feign anywhere
> near the top of our list of priorities for a 52 spell.
Feign Death with half the (agonisling long when it fails) recast time for
25% more mana?
Yes please. But then again, I'm sub-60 and wearing darkforge legs, so I have
exactly *one* FD currently available.
--
Simond
"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your
slave." - Jarerth the Goblin King, Labyrinth
kaev
First off, since you're a hybrid your melee timer is not reset when
you cast, so you will on average lose a lot less than the casting
time of the spells from your attacks, the slower the weapon the less
you lose.
Second, if you were doing <over> 40 DPS (from your numbers: 10 seconds
vs. 428 hp) at L48 with a Weighty Polearm and nothing but an FBSS for
haste you were not fighting mobs capable of injuring you, let alone
xp giving mobs.
The Uber Nukah
out:
Noobie says out of character: Buffing See Invisible & Infravision for
donations! Hail for invite!
Because this spell buff will obviously be in demand, because its so uber and
needed. I bet there will also be dozens of characters shouting out "Looking
for See Invis & Infravision buffs!"
"Tim Smith" <reply_i...@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
news:5aecnfZK7P9...@speakeasy.net...
James Hicks
> > combo all of those spells adding up to even 10 seconds would usually be
not
> > worth it... or so minorly advantageous as to be not worth clicking the
> > buttons - not to mention wasting mana that can be used on nukes ;)
>
> First off, since you're a hybrid your melee timer is not reset when
> you cast, so you will on average lose a lot less than the casting
> time of the spells from your attacks, the slower the weapon the less
> you lose.
Well, that situation's a bit weird. Sometimes if you cast past the point
where you would normally have swung, you swing instantly after, other times
it seems to skip the swing.
> Second, if you were doing <over> 40 DPS (from your numbers: 10 seconds
> vs. 428 hp) at L48 with a Weighty Polearm and nothing but an FBSS for
> haste you were not fighting mobs capable of injuring you, let alone
> xp giving mobs.
There's a lot more to it than 10 seconds vs 428hp.
428hp does not land in 10 seconds. It takes so long that if you're in a
group much of it never lands. If you're fear kiting, that damage will land
but so slowly it wont be much use to you. Why? Because on any mob in DL that
I fear kite, it takes two casts of fear... any spells I throw on the mob to
damage him are a waste of mana unless I can get that down to one cast of
fear, and boy oh boy is 428hp not going to achieve that. Especially
considering how little of that lands in 42 seconds :P
You can't just add up the casting time of the spells - if you're tanking
you'll get interruptions, if you're fear kiting you'll get the occasional
interruption cos the server can't tell you've stopped (thx lag) if you're
unlucky you'll get interruptions for no good reason. Add in fizzles. Stir.
Next there's the mana cost. Why are you spending that mana? You can
damage this mob *without* spending mana. If you're in a group spending that
mana doesnt perceptably alter the length of the fight, doesn't save your
healer any mana or let your group pull any faster. Not so anyone would
notice. If you're fear kiting, you're wasting mana on dmg spells if they
don't reduce the nubmer of fear casts. The *only* time I've cast those
spells as a matter of policy was when I was soloing in feerott and couldn't
fear kite because it would become add city. And even then (this was my early
30's) those spells made little perceptable difference to the outcome of the
fight. At the end of each battle I would notice that I had less mana than
usual and a few more hitpoints. While I'm on the topic of mana cost, there
is NO way in hell you can viably use these spells in a grind group OR
soloing to do damage unless you have C3. If you think I'm wrong, try it out,
it's exciting.
The other, and probably most important consideration is that these
spells take up spell slots. If, at level 48, I want to do 428hp (wish my car
had that much hp) I have to sacrifice 3 spell slots to do it... (unless im
already snaring which im usually not - every ranger and his dog has a better
snare than me at that level) and at that level I'm already swapping spells
in and out. It's Just Not Worth it.
And regarding DPS, I don't know what my average DPS was with the weighty
polearm and the FBSS but it's probably worth remembering that if I was in a
group my haste was 50% not 21% most of the time. That weapon hits every 3
seconds or faster and averages around 60hp. You miss some and some are
double attacks..... that's not to be sneezed at. The weighty polearm is a
hell of an overpowered weapon, for the price, if you ask me - I've got a
black acrylia halberd now which im in love with but the WP was only slightly
less powerful when I surrendered it last night :)
The final point I would make is that I don't think these spells are
getting used. That's a pretty good indicator of whether they're worth using
or not. Yes you might say that 90% of shadowknights are too stupid to use
them, but then again you might just look like a twit saying it. I spent
40-49 grouping in the dreadlands and doing almost nothing else to gain exp,
and over that time I grouped with a large number of SK's. I recall only one
other guy that cast heart flutter, and aside from knights casting snares on
request or automatically I don't remember anyone else using their dots. I
never saw even one cast of the heat blood fire based 174hp one the whole
time - and being that that's the damage dealer with no other effect I'd say
that indicates that these spells do not do enough damage for the level of
shadowknights who have them.
Once again, to [hopefully] preclude the "whiner" flames: I don't mind
that these spells are so underpowered they never get used. I think it's just
part of the SK class that we get underpowerd joke spells until 49 and they
slowly ramp up into very powerful spells after that. I think it's worth
suffering through the lower levels just to get to 49 and I'm looking forward
in a big way to the higher levels. BUT I will not let any argument stand
that suggests the pre 49 DoTs are anything other than a joke for dealing
damage.
Cheers,
James
Simond
"James Hicks" <jhi...@hiddenmail.nyer> wrote in message
Which is why Blood of Pain is a much shorter duration than Heat Blood.
I'll use it instead of HB, as opposed to as well as, though. And probably
only on Luclin mobs with their "Tons of hitpoint = Yay! What a good idea"
thing.
Oh, and in PvP as well, of course. =)
>
> You can't just add up the casting time of the spells - if you're
tanking
> you'll get interruptions, if you're fear kiting you'll get the occasional
> interruption cos the server can't tell you've stopped (thx lag) if you're
> unlucky you'll get interruptions for no good reason. Add in fizzles. Stir.
Agree on this.
>
> Next there's the mana cost. Why are you spending that mana? You can
> damage this mob *without* spending mana. If you're in a group spending
that
> mana doesnt perceptably alter the length of the fight, doesn't save your
> healer any mana or let your group pull any faster. Not so anyone would
> notice. If you're fear kiting, you're wasting mana on dmg spells if they
> don't reduce the nubmer of fear casts. The *only* time I've cast those
> spells as a matter of policy was when I was soloing in feerott and
couldn't
> fear kite because it would become add city. And even then (this was my
early
> 30's) those spells made little perceptable difference to the outcome of
the
> fight. At the end of each battle I would notice that I had less mana than
> usual and a few more hitpoints. While I'm on the topic of mana cost, there
> is NO way in hell you can viably use these spells in a grind group OR
> soloing to do damage unless you have C3. If you think I'm wrong, try it
out,
> it's exciting.
Depends where you are and the respawn rate of the mobs. When I was
fearkiting koblolds down the ramp form SolA to the window room (surprisingly
effective), by the time I ran OOM, I had also run out of easily accessible
kobolds. And that was with using disease cloud, shadow vortex and the ATK
tap I can never remember the name of, as well as engulfing darkness, fear,
and keeping deadeye, grim aura and lifetap proc up at all times.
No KEI, no insanely high INT.
>
> The other, and probably most important consideration is that these
> spells take up spell slots. If, at level 48, I want to do 428hp (wish my
car
> had that much hp) I have to sacrifice 3 spell slots to do it... (unless im
> already snaring which im usually not - every ranger and his dog has a
better
> snare than me at that level) and at that level I'm already swapping spells
> in and out. It's Just Not Worth it.
Really? I'm at 51, and the only spell lines I have to regularly swap out are
my self-buffs, and my pet/pet buff - if I'm in a place suitable to use it.
Otherwise I pick the spells according to where I'm soloing, and I'm done.
1) Lifetap
2) Darkness
3) Heat Blood/Disease Cloud (depending if I want more damage or a AC debuff)
4) Spear of Disease
5) Spear of Pain
6) Rotating buff/pet slot.
7) Invoke Fear/Fear (Again, depending on whether I need long or short fear)
8) Feign Death
>
> And regarding DPS, I don't know what my average DPS was with the
weighty
> polearm and the FBSS but it's probably worth remembering that if I was in
a
> group my haste was 50% not 21% most of the time. That weapon hits every 3
> seconds or faster and averages around 60hp. You miss some and some are
> double attacks..... that's not to be sneezed at. The weighty polearm is a
> hell of an overpowered weapon, for the price, if you ask me - I've got a
> black acrylia halberd now which im in love with but the WP was only
slightly
> less powerful when I surrendered it last night :)
I <3 my Weighty Polearm. 250 plat for such a decent weapon? Bargain.
>
> The final point I would make is that I don't think these spells are
> getting used. That's a pretty good indicator of whether they're worth
using
> or not. Yes you might say that 90% of shadowknights are too stupid to use
> them, but then again you might just look like a twit saying it. I spent
> 40-49 grouping in the dreadlands and doing almost nothing else to gain
exp,
> and over that time I grouped with a large number of SK's. I recall only
one
> other guy that cast heart flutter, and aside from knights casting snares
on
> request or automatically I don't remember anyone else using their dots. I
> never saw even one cast of the heat blood fire based 174hp one the whole
> time - and being that that's the damage dealer with no other effect I'd
say
> that indicates that these spells do not do enough damage for the level of
> shadowknights who have them.
I used heat blood when fear-kiting Luclin mobs, mobs with damage shields,
etc, etc. Situational use, I admit, but still used. Oh, and again I use it
in PvP - mainly to counter regen of one sort or another - it's funny how
many twinks in funigs panic when their regen goes bye-bye. And I use disease
cloud more often than that for the AC debuff. Plus - since the various aggro
changes Dots are frequently better aggro management tools than the (nerfed)
stat taps, and can be better than the Terror line as well.
>
> Once again, to [hopefully] preclude the "whiner" flames: I don't mind
> that these spells are so underpowered they never get used. I think it's
just
> part of the SK class that we get underpowerd joke spells until 49 and they
> slowly ramp up into very powerful spells after that.
Barring Level 30, which is the first 'OMG I can do what now?' level for SKs.
=)
I think that 52 is going to be another one of *those* levels now - a new,
actually semi-useful pet, the (fixed) Mental Corruption, and a faster-recast
Feign Death.
James Hicks
> to
> > damage him are a waste of mana unless I can get that down to one cast of
> > fear, and boy oh boy is 428hp not going to achieve that. Especially
> > considering how little of that lands in 42 seconds :P
>
> Which is why Blood of Pain is a much shorter duration than Heat Blood.
> I'll use it instead of HB, as opposed to as well as, though. And probably
> only on Luclin mobs with their "Tons of hitpoint = Yay! What a good idea"
> thing.
Lol but how much dmg is it going to do against those mobs?
> Oh, and in PvP as well, of course. =)
Wouldn't know the first thing about PvP except that im glad I don't have
to put up with it.
> > fight. At the end of each battle I would notice that I had less mana
than
> > usual and a few more hitpoints. While I'm on the topic of mana cost,
there
> > is NO way in hell you can viably use these spells in a grind group OR
> > soloing to do damage unless you have C3. If you think I'm wrong, try it
> out,
> > it's exciting.
>
> Depends where you are and the respawn rate of the mobs. When I was
> fearkiting koblolds down the ramp form SolA to the window room
(surprisingly
> effective), by the time I ran OOM, I had also run out of easily accessible
> kobolds. And that was with using disease cloud, shadow vortex and the ATK
> tap I can never remember the name of, as well as engulfing darkness, fear,
> and keeping deadeye, grim aura and lifetap proc up at all times.
> No KEI, no insanely high INT.
Well, no matter what I say someone's always going to bring out an
exception but I'm sure I'm getting the point across somewhere along the line
lo.
> > The other, and probably most important consideration is that these
> > spells take up spell slots. If, at level 48, I want to do 428hp (wish my
> car
> > had that much hp) I have to sacrifice 3 spell slots to do it... (unless
im
> > already snaring which im usually not - every ranger and his dog has a
> better
> > snare than me at that level) and at that level I'm already swapping
spells
> > in and out. It's Just Not Worth it.
>
> Really? I'm at 51, and the only spell lines I have to regularly swap out
are
> my self-buffs, and my pet/pet buff - if I'm in a place suitable to use it.
> Otherwise I pick the spells according to where I'm soloing, and I'm done.
> 1) Lifetap
> 2) Darkness
> 3) Heat Blood/Disease Cloud (depending if I want more damage or a AC
debuff)
> 4) Spear of Disease
> 5) Spear of Pain
> 6) Rotating buff/pet slot.
> 7) Invoke Fear/Fear (Again, depending on whether I need long or short
fear)
> 8) Feign Death
If you rotate your pet summon and pet buff slot, the recast time on the
pet buff makes this a little annoying for your self buffs, but I put up with
it cos of the 8 gem restriction. Other than that my spell list is identical
to yours except that I'd swap out heat blood and put in the strength tap.
Nice spell to pull with if you don't want to snare, and +10 str probably
does more extra damage than the fire dot ;)
I notice you're not using heart flutter... Guess you're not overwhelmed
by the stacking capability of the dots either?
> > group my haste was 50% not 21% most of the time. That weapon hits every
3
> > seconds or faster and averages around 60hp. You miss some and some are
> > double attacks..... that's not to be sneezed at. The weighty polearm is
a
> > hell of an overpowered weapon, for the price, if you ask me - I've got a
> > black acrylia halberd now which im in love with but the WP was only
> slightly
> > less powerful when I surrendered it last night :)
>
> I <3 my Weighty Polearm. 250 plat for such a decent weapon? Bargain.
Yeah paid 250pp for mine too, before i bought it getting 250pp together
was a major undertaking. After I bought it I began fear kiting hill
giants...
> I used heat blood when fear-kiting Luclin mobs, mobs with damage shields,
> etc, etc. Situational use, I admit, but still used. Oh, and again I use it
> in PvP - mainly to counter regen of one sort or another - it's funny how
> many twinks in funigs panic when their regen goes bye-bye. And I use
disease
> cloud more often than that for the AC debuff. Plus - since the various
aggro
> changes Dots are frequently better aggro management tools than the
(nerfed)
> stat taps, and can be better than the Terror line as well.
Yeah I don't like using cheap old dots for agro tho, i'd rather use a
taunt spell otherwise it feels like cheating. It is cheating really as its
an exploit, and one that sooner or later will be properly nerfed.
> > Once again, to [hopefully] preclude the "whiner" flames: I don't
mind
> > that these spells are so underpowered they never get used. I think it's
> just
> > part of the SK class that we get underpowerd joke spells until 49 and
they
> > slowly ramp up into very powerful spells after that.
>
> Barring Level 30, which is the first 'OMG I can do what now?' level for
SKs.
> =)
> I think that 52 is going to be another one of *those* levels now - a new,
> actually semi-useful pet, the (fixed) Mental Corruption, and a
faster-recast
> Feign Death.
I don't think level 30 was earth shattering spellwise. Probably the most
important spell before 49 was Fear when you first get it. I don't even
remember when that was but I wish I knew then what I know now about fear
kiting ;) would've made a right mess of many a nasty thing to my own gain.
Yeah I'm looking forward to the new pet..... the 49 one just got old :)
Mental corruption sounds interesting but doesnt set my world on fire,
but the faster recast feign death is the only useful thing SK's seem to get
out of ykesha and it wont make me fork out $20us or whatever.
cheers,
James
Paul Schneider
> Great to see wizards get another Infravision and See Invis spell! I have
> been waiting a long time for a spell like this, because most wizards don't
> have infravision :) and no wizards have familiars that grant us See Invis
> from before either :) All this at level 44 oh boy! Get ready for the nerf
> bat when this hits the market!
>
> I was hoping they would give us an MGB True North spell or something that
> was atleast funny since they cannot give us something usefull.
Yeah, it is pretty pathetic. The other spell (Frozen Harpoon) is one
level higher than Draught of fire (3 second cast, instant recast) but
is a 4 second cast and 13 second recast. It is a whole 55 mana
cheaper to cast. What were they thinking?
Paul
Simond
"James Hicks" <jhi...@hiddenmail.nyer> wrote in message
> > > I fear kite, it takes two casts of fear... any spells I throw on the
mob
> > to
> > > damage him are a waste of mana unless I can get that down to one cast
of
> > > fear, and boy oh boy is 428hp not going to achieve that. Especially
> > > considering how little of that lands in 42 seconds :P
> >
> > Which is why Blood of Pain is a much shorter duration than Heat Blood.
> > I'll use it instead of HB, as opposed to as well as, though. And
probably
> > only on Luclin mobs with their "Tons of hitpoint = Yay! What a good
idea"
> > thing.
>
> Lol but how much dmg is it going to do against those mobs?
More than not casting it. =)
Plus, the shorter duration of BoP makes it more group friendly.
>
> > Oh, and in PvP as well, of course. =)
>
> Wouldn't know the first thing about PvP except that im glad I don't
have
> to put up with it.
>
The amount of grief-play on three of the four Zeks is vastly over-rated.
<snip>
> If you rotate your pet summon and pet buff slot, the recast time on
the
> pet buff makes this a little annoying for your self buffs, but I put up
with
> it cos of the 8 gem restriction. Other than that my spell list is
identical
> to yours except that I'd swap out heat blood and put in the strength tap.
> Nice spell to pull with if you don't want to snare, and +10 str probably
> does more extra damage than the fire dot ;)
Extra damage from highly buffed strength is negligable. Extra damage from 10
strength is so vanishingly small it may as well not exist. Just FYI. =)
>
> I notice you're not using heart flutter... Guess you're not
overwhelmed
> by the stacking capability of the dots either?
Brain thought 'Heart Flutter', but fingers typed 'Disease Cloud'
Bad fingers!
>
> > > group my haste was 50% not 21% most of the time. That weapon hits
every
> 3
> > > seconds or faster and averages around 60hp. You miss some and some are
> > > double attacks..... that's not to be sneezed at. The weighty polearm
is
> a
> > > hell of an overpowered weapon, for the price, if you ask me - I've got
a
> > > black acrylia halberd now which im in love with but the WP was only
> > slightly
> > > less powerful when I surrendered it last night :)
> >
> > I <3 my Weighty Polearm. 250 plat for such a decent weapon? Bargain.
>
> Yeah paid 250pp for mine too, before i bought it getting 250pp
together
> was a major undertaking. After I bought it I began fear kiting hill
> giants...
I used to be broke all the time, then I skilled up tailoring so that leather
padding was extremely trivial.
>
> > I used heat blood when fear-kiting Luclin mobs, mobs with damage
shields,
> > etc, etc. Situational use, I admit, but still used. Oh, and again I use
it
> > in PvP - mainly to counter regen of one sort or another - it's funny how
> > many twinks in funigs panic when their regen goes bye-bye. And I use
> disease
> > cloud more often than that for the AC debuff. Plus - since the various
> aggro
> > changes Dots are frequently better aggro management tools than the
> (nerfed)
> > stat taps, and can be better than the Terror line as well.
>
> Yeah I don't like using cheap old dots for agro tho, i'd rather use a
> taunt spell otherwise it feels like cheating. It is cheating really as its
> an exploit, and one that sooner or later will be properly nerfed.
>
That won't happen. If aggro on dots is nerfed, then shaman, druids and
necros would get a lot more powerful.
> > > Once again, to [hopefully] preclude the "whiner" flames: I don't
> mind
> > > that these spells are so underpowered they never get used. I think
it's
> > just
> > > part of the SK class that we get underpowerd joke spells until 49 and
> they
> > > slowly ramp up into very powerful spells after that.
> >
> > Barring Level 30, which is the first 'OMG I can do what now?' level for
> SKs.
> > =)
> > I think that 52 is going to be another one of *those* levels now - a
new,
> > actually semi-useful pet, the (fixed) Mental Corruption, and a
> faster-recast
> > Feign Death.
>
> I don't think level 30 was earth shattering spellwise.
Feign Death, Gather Shadows, new pet, new lifetap and the first non-darkness
dot. Fear, when we first get it) uses up way too much mana to be effective,
IMO - it only starts becoming useful levels later.
> Mental corruption sounds interesting but doesnt set my world on fire,
> but the faster recast feign death is the only useful thing SK's seem to
get
> out of ykesha and it wont make me fork out $20us or whatever.
Mental Corruption = no need for KEI.
OK, slight exaggeration, but not by that much. =)
James Hicks
>
> More than not casting it. =)
> Plus, the shorter duration of BoP makes it more group friendly.
I was fighting in cobalt scar last night with my BAH. Quite a number of
my double hits read like 141 170....
How the hell can a dot that takes a minute to do as much dmg as half of
them be considered vaguely relevant. Hell I wouldn't be casting dooming
darkness if all it did was the 300dmg. Not one single mob lasted long enough
to eat a whole cast of that, not even when our ranger pulled 4 death-parrots
at once.
> > Wouldn't know the first thing about PvP except that im glad I don't
> have
> > to put up with it.
>
> The amount of grief-play on three of the four Zeks is vastly over-rated.
>
> <snip>
Heh, couldn't care less about grief-play most of it's reportable.... It
would just REALLY annoy me to be killed by dickheads all the time...
On the other hand there's been a number of cases where someone's KS'd
off me that I would LOVE to just cast one snare on them and watch the mob
pound them into the earth... I notice snares cancel your sow..... ouch
> > to yours except that I'd swap out heat blood and put in the strength
tap.
> > Nice spell to pull with if you don't want to snare, and +10 str probably
> > does more extra damage than the fire dot ;)
>
> Extra damage from highly buffed strength is negligable. Extra damage from
10
> strength is so vanishingly small it may as well not exist. Just FYI. =)
I'm fully aware of that, but I coun't 170dmg over a minute to be so
vanishingly small it may as well not exist too. Seriously, at this level
mobs have what, 2-4k hp? Please to be break-giving?
> > Yeah paid 250pp for mine too, before i bought it getting 250pp
> together
> > was a major undertaking. After I bought it I began fear kiting hill
> > giants...
>
> I used to be broke all the time, then I skilled up tailoring so that
leather
> padding was extremely trivial.
Yeah, I've started buying that stuff up. Actually, the best thing is
buying the bits and making it myself. My alt's smithing is 152, need it up
over 200..... long haul but worth it. Want that DE cultural armour :)
> > Yeah I don't like using cheap old dots for agro tho, i'd rather use
a
> > taunt spell otherwise it feels like cheating. It is cheating really as
its
> > an exploit, and one that sooner or later will be properly nerfed.
> >
> That won't happen. If aggro on dots is nerfed, then shaman, druids and
> necros would get a lot more powerful.
Don't see how druids would, but shaman and necros do seem to like their
pet holding agro. Actually necros tend to fear kite so i doubt it counts too
much for them, and shaman probably kite anyway, their pet hits hard but can
it tank? I don't know I dont play a shaman and when I play WITH one their
pet sure as hell isnt tanking hehe.
Besides, clinging darkness having more agro than the 400 point agro
spell you get 20 levels later? Sorry, but thats just ridiculous.
> > I don't think level 30 was earth shattering spellwise.
>
> Feign Death, Gather Shadows, new pet, new lifetap and the first
non-darkness
> dot. Fear, when we first get it) uses up way too much mana to be
effective,
> IMO - it only starts becoming useful levels later.
Well, when I started using it and whenever I fear kite in fact, I don't
do it without c3, and I can't see how it would be viable without c3.
Possible yes, viable no. And c3 at level 15 is just as good as c3 at level
50... wish I'd known...... ;)
> > Mental corruption sounds interesting but doesnt set my world on
fire,
> > but the faster recast feign death is the only useful thing SK's seem to
> get
> > out of ykesha and it wont make me fork out $20us or whatever.
>
> Mental Corruption = no need for KEI.
> OK, slight exaggeration, but not by that much. =)
Well, I'll try it out but I bet it has only a minor effect on the
outcome of a battle :)
-Martin
news:3E56D04A...@nospam.yuck.net...
> IIRC, Torpor (which this is a lesser version of) was the most desired
> Shaman spell in the game, pre-PoP (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm
> wrong about that). This is a spell which you would mostly use on
> casters, it's especially good for Shamans and Necromancers who can
> convert their hp into mana.
Well it was rare, like Malo and Pox.
It was decent, it had some big limitations though....
1) Group only (well look at those negative effects)
2) Can't use it on a tank in battle
3) The snare and slow are pretty harsh (it pisses people off, you can't
chase running mobs)
4) It takes mana from the caster
Despite all that though, it was a very powerful heal, when the only
alternative was a poxy 400 or something slow casting heal.
The incomplete heal made it less vital (lesser efficient versus horrific
effects), the PoP spells further reduced its usefulness. Quies makes it
even less important (you will never use torpor once you have it) - but I
just paid 125kpp for that spell... so its not something you'll commonly see
sold yet
--
-m
54 rogue of prexus
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=569520
-Martin
SK's blow
James Hicks
coming from a rogue, I gotta laugh :)
-Martin
> > SK's blow
>
> coming from a rogue, I gotta laugh :)
Why so?
The game is ultimately based around 3 things
Warrior defensive tanks
Big DPS
C-Heal rotations
SK's don't fit in any of those categories... keep laughing at those rogues,
whilst they do 5x you're DPS
--
-m
Magelo Profiles:
Monk http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=35533
Shaman http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=328049
Rogue http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=569520
Prexus
James Hicks
>
> Why so?
>
> The game is ultimately based around 3 things
What game would that be? The top level "uber" raiding guilds I wont see
for another 12 months if I'm lucky?
> Warrior defensive tanks
> Big DPS
> C-Heal rotations
Fwah?! Oh sorry I fell asleep. That sounds so exciting!
> SK's don't fit in any of those categories... keep laughing at those
rogues,
> whilst they do 5x you're DPS
ok... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Hrm I hope that's what you wanted? Can you really do 5x an SK's dps? Or
are you exagerating slightly?
Shout noob if you like but I've yet to group with a rogue who did 5x my
damage. Grouped with one who I had to actually use spells to keep the agro
off, that was a nice change :)
-Martin
> What game would that be? The top level "uber" raiding guilds I wont
see
> for another 12 months if I'm lucky?
Well for me the game has 2 options, exp and raids.
Raids are warr/cleric/DPS
Exp is DPS
SK's don't fit in either for me.. never group with 1... never wish I did
I have an SK (lvl 53 or so) I know how pittyful their DPS is
> ok... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>
> Hrm I hope that's what you wanted? Can you really do 5x an SK's dps?
Or
> are you exagerating slightly?
Do you're own research for SK DPS, I'll tell you though, as a monk (the
rogue isn't my main, if you didn't figure that out yet...) in tier 3 PoP, I
can get 220DPS. A rogue would be even higher, find a comparable SK and ask
them to parse
> Shout noob if you like but I've yet to group with a rogue who did 5x
my
> damage. Grouped with one who I had to actually use spells to keep the agro
> off, that was a nice change :)
Then every damage dealer you grouped with was pressing attack for maybe 5
seconds at a time. Their DPS is significantly greater than yours, if you're
not using spells, you're not holding agro, simple as that.
Simond
"-Martin" <vi...@atcheerful.dotcom> wrote in message
news:GEp6a.389$um.9...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> "James Hicks" <jhi...@hiddenmail.nyer> wrote in message
> news:Erp6a.17$_J1....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
> > What game would that be? The top level "uber" raiding guilds I wont
> see
> > for another 12 months if I'm lucky?
>
> Well for me the game has 2 options, exp and raids.
>
> Raids are warr/cleric/DPS
> Exp is DPS
>
> SK's don't fit in either for me.. never group with 1... never wish I did
Most clued in XP groups nowadays would rather have a SK or Paladin as tank,
rather than a warrior.
Much easier aggro management, don'tcha know. =p
Jekke, Just Jekke
<simond@.boredofspamnow.apocalypsecow.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Most clued in XP groups nowadays would rather have a SK or Paladin as tank,
>rather than a warrior.
>Much easier aggro management, don'tcha know. =p
I don't know about that. Aggro management can be learned and I've
grouped with plenty of warriors who are capable of keeping aggro all
the wa through. Hit points are absolute. For fights that are a matter
of inches, my money's still on the warrior.
--Jekke
=====================
Playing on Torvonilous
Veteran Moulin Khmer (Dark Elf Rogue, 65)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=87681
Sheava Ebonrezzor (Dark Elf Cleric, 56)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=392441
Brikk Hauss (Ogre Warrior, 46)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=399065
And on Test:
Persona Nongratis, Dark Elf Enchanter 26
Gnyght, Gnome Paladin 11
Entropea, 0.5(Elf) Druid 10
Shoque, Iksar Monk 9
Ronny Cook
"-Martin" <vi...@atcheerful.dotcom> wrote in message
news:GEp6a.389$um.9...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> news:Erp6a.17$_J1....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
> > What game would that be? The top level "uber" raiding guilds I wont
> see
> > for another 12 months if I'm lucky?
>
> Well for me the game has 2 options, exp and raids.
>
> Raids are warr/cleric/DPS
> Exp is DPS
>
> SK's don't fit in either for me.. never group with 1... never wish I did
>
> I have an SK (lvl 53 or so) I know how pittyful their DPS is
>
are much better at holding aggro than warriors, which in an exp group
compensates for their relatively low HP. (And in a raid they can do decently
If a warrior has 4000HP and loses aggro once per MOB, and an SK has 3500HP
and does not lose aggro, the SK may require 20% more healing, but that's
more than compensated by the lack of a requirement to toss in a patch heal
that uses maybe 40% of the mana of a CHeal. (My standard patch heal,
Remedy, heals around 470 HP for I think 175 mana, vs. 400 mana for CHeal.)
Less mana used on healing = less downtime, usually. I've seen rangers tank
and require less downtime than the "proper" tank classes, simply because
they did a better job holding aggro.
...Ronny
Davian
"Simond" <simond@.boredofspamnow.apocalypsecow.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b3dor1$ee8$2$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> "-Martin" <vi...@atcheerful.dotcom> wrote in message
> news:GEp6a.389$um.9...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> > "James Hicks" <jhi...@hiddenmail.nyer> wrote in message
> > news:Erp6a.17$_J1....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
> > > What game would that be? The top level "uber" raiding guilds I
wont
> > see
> > > for another 12 months if I'm lucky?
> >
> > Well for me the game has 2 options, exp and raids.
> >
> > Raids are warr/cleric/DPS
> > Exp is DPS
> >
> > SK's don't fit in either for me.. never group with 1... never wish I did
>
> Most clued in XP groups nowadays would rather have a SK or Paladin as
tank,
> rather than a warrior.
> Much easier aggro management, don'tcha know. =p
I believe you meant clueless. (or at least you should have.)
The good group would be using the warrior, and keeping aggro on him.
--
Dearic
Dwarven Overlord on E'ci
-Martin
news:b3dor1$ee8$2$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
tank,
> rather than a warrior.
> Much easier aggro management, don'tcha know. =p
Nope, not me !
If the mobs are putting out tremendous DPS, I'll have a guild warrior as my
tank... better tank, better dps than a knight
If the mobs are hitting for say, 500 max, I'll tank myself all night long
(monk)
My groups don't suffer from agro problems, slow exp, big downtime or deaths
James Hicks
> >> Big DPS
> >> C-Heal rotations
> >
> > Fwah?! Oh sorry I fell asleep. That sounds so exciting!
>
> The CH rotation may be slower but that's about the only difference for a
> group at level 25 and a group at level 65.
At level 51 I've been in a chealing group...... *once* and I was the one
being chealed. (yup, you guessed it, I turned up with agro and explained
that to the cleric. That group was bery happy with me for both pulling and
tanking.)
For god's sake look around at some of the other things in "the game"
there's more to it than chealing grind groups, or I've been levelling on
vita brits?
The groups that stick to the tank/heal cycle bore the utter fuck out of
me. I was in a beautiful group the other night in cobalt scar, no cleric,
pally was main healer (with his uber 300 point heal). This one time (at band
camp), the ranger accidentally pulled 4 wyverns at once. Everyone thought we
were dead, but he kited them all over the shop, and one by one I'd land a
snare then the pally would root and then the wizzy would start nuking. Then
we'd rush in an melee :) Was awesome, no casualties and I could almost hear
the soloing druid watching us go "hahaha they're deadmeat...... woah cool
they got it under control!".
Equal most fun i've had in 20 levels :)
If the game ever turned into a one-tactic grind, I'd quite in 5 seconds.
I can get more enjoyment out of tetris. And yeah, you can have my stuff.
Even the goranga idol.
James Hicks
haha turned up with agro. Sounds like one of my posts here.
Simond
"Jekke, Just Jekke" <eloc...@REMOVEALLcloud9.netCAPS> wrote in message
news:9m9l5vo3m2btgtn8m...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:30:35 -0000, "Simond"
> <simond@.boredofspamnow.apocalypsecow.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >Most clued in XP groups nowadays would rather have a SK or Paladin as
tank,
> >rather than a warrior.
> >Much easier aggro management, don'tcha know. =p
>
> I don't know about that. Aggro management can be learned and I've
> grouped with plenty of warriors who are capable of keeping aggro all
> the wa through. Hit points are absolute. For fights that are a matter
> of inches, my money's still on the warrior.
Well, as a SK i'm biased, but it seems that since late Luclin/early PoP
other classes are finally beginning to realise that tank hybrids are more
desiable than warriors in xp groups strictly because of their much superior
aggro control. Obviously, some weapons (enraging blow et al) modify this,
but not every warrior has these.
Going from 'Taunt is highest aggro plus one'. (I think. Somebody correct me
if I'm wrong). So, a couple of scenarios (using Warrior & SK, but paladins
have decent aggro gain with their stuns, etc)
Scenario A
Warrior taunts, gains aggro but still has to be careful about not
button-mashing taunt, etc. as he's barely about the next person on the hate
list.
SK taunts, gains aggro and drops some sort spell (terror line, clinging
darkness, whatever) and is a few hundred points about the next person on the
hate list.
Scenario B
Warrior taunts. Taunt fails, and warrior has to either wait for taunt to
refresh or (if he has weapons with a decent proc) hope that his weapons do
proc and that does create enough aggro to drag the mob back to him.
SK taunts. Taunt fails. SK unloads two very fast casting DD spells, a fast
casting snare/dot and a fast casting aggro increaser. He also has the chance
of his self-buff proc firing, and any proc on his weapon working as well.
Aggro control is what SKs (and paladins, to a lesser extent) do. They get
*two* entire spells lines devoted to it, plus quite a few spells that have
high aggro just because of their design (I'm thinking darkness line here,
mainly). It's all about the margin of error, and tank hybrids widen that
quite a bit.
And the warriors aren't happy about it, btw. There's been more than one
thread on the warrior class messageboards asking for SK agrro to be nerfed
because warriors are getting turned down for groups because there's a SK or
Paladin LFG as well. OTOH, shaman and enchanters love us. =)
kaev
> simond@.boredofspamnow.apocalypsecow.demon.co.uk (Simond) wrote in
> alt.games.everquest in <b3gelp$3mi$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk> :
>
>
>>And the warriors aren't happy about it, btw. There's been more than one
>>thread on the warrior class messageboards asking for SK agrro to be
>>nerfed because warriors are getting turned down for groups because
>>there's a SK or Paladin LFG as well. OTOH, shaman and enchanters love
>>us. =)
>>
>>
>
> No warriors aren't happy about it, at all. Meat shield was/is all a common
> warrior has to offer a good grind.
>
> The role of meat shield is nearly gone due to the abilities give a hybred
> necro/warrior. That's a real pisser for those of us that have casual alt
> warriors, because, we *do* get turned down for groups if it's a choice
> between us and a SK.
>
> In the high end guilds warriors still control the aggro but for common
> warriors there's no way they/we can keep aggro off a SK that's trying to
> take aggro. Shame really. If this affected Furror it'd get fixed in a
> weeks time, since it doesn't, it won't until it does.
If ever it was possible for a Warrior of equal level/gear to hold agro
from a Paladin or SK it would have to have been a very brief period
shortly after the original release of the game. There was a fairly
long period of time (i.e. before the melee balancing they did months
after Kunark came out) where just about the only thing a Paladin/SK
had to offer was the ability to take and hold agro. I suspect the
big issue you have now is lots of other people who haven't the first
clue about agro management. Casters who've spent their entire career
blasting away heedlessly because they have KEI, and since they grouped
only with highly twinked hybrids who could take and hold agro in spite
of their incompetence (most of the time anyway), they've never had to
learn how to play. The same goes for highly twinked melee damage
dealers who had gear so strong they could tank, and so it never hurt
to, for instance, just mash the backstab key every time it ungreyed.
Between KEI and the extreme twinking that is routine these days it's
pretty easy for people to get to 60+ and still be woefully incompetent
at playing their character, it isn't even really possible to spot an
ebayer anymore. Hell, I'd be willing to bet (a small bet) that the
typical ebayer outplays the typical "natural" twink these days.
Kaev
James Hicks
> thread on the warrior class messageboards asking for SK agrro to be nerfed
> because warriors are getting turned down for groups because there's a SK
or
> Paladin LFG as well. OTOH, shaman and enchanters love us. =)
Yah and warriors posting to SK groups too and complaining. Which is a
bit severe.
I mean, we're good at pissing people off... let us at least have that
skill.
I know I know, im cut out to be an SK <g>
Lewzephyr
(newshound007) wrote:
>simond@.boredofspamnow.apocalypsecow.demon.co.uk (Simond) wrote in
>alt.games.everquest in <b3gelp$3mi$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk> :
>
>>And the warriors aren't happy about it, btw. There's been more than one
>>thread on the warrior class messageboards asking for SK agrro to be
>>nerfed because warriors are getting turned down for groups because
>>there's a SK or Paladin LFG as well. OTOH, shaman and enchanters love
>>us. =)
>>
>
>No warriors aren't happy about it, at all. Meat shield was/is all a common
>warrior has to offer a good grind.
>
>The role of meat shield is nearly gone due to the abilities give a hybred
>necro/warrior. That's a real pisser for those of us that have casual alt
>warriors, because, we *do* get turned down for groups if it's a choice
>between us and a SK.
>
>In the high end guilds warriors still control the aggro but for common
>warriors there's no way they/we can keep aggro off a SK that's trying to
>take aggro. Shame really. If this affected Furror it'd get fixed in a
>weeks time, since it doesn't, it won't until it does.
Hmm... makes me think of a phrase I heard once..
"Aggro is not lost;
It is Stolen."
James Hicks
> >being chealed. (yup, you guessed it, I turned up with agro and explained
> >that to the cleric. That group was bery happy with me for both pulling
and
> >tanking.)
> >
>
> Most of the groups I enjoy involve chain pulling and chain
healing/frequent
> healing, it's exiting and fun for me at least. To each his own.
Oh don't get me wrong i probably overstated the boring the fuck out of
me part. If I'm pulling almost any group is fun but yeah I'm a bit over the
reserve spare tank dmg adder person role, and am a bit frustrated with
people's attitude that the tank-and-heal group is the only way to play the
game. Not really in here but ingame - if I /ooc LFG I get tells...
plural..... if I /ooc looking for partner and I get one curious question
back, I pounce on that guy because he's the only one who'll /tell me all
night.
And that's just duoing. God forbid anyone suggest a different strategy
for group play or that a group sans a cleric can achieve anything.
Fear kiting? We don't want to chase our mobs thanks and don't you get
adds?
We dont have a cleric we're doomed.
Get the melee casters suck!
And other great shit. I once got told by a cleric not to taunt mobs or
cast on them. We had a pally in the group 2 levels higher than me and he was
the "MT". He wasn't holding agro for shit and the group's wizzie was
constantly getting beat on. I said ok and resorted to only taunting or using
a taunt spell to get mobs off the wizzy but the cleric got up me for that
too. I asked why he was so particular about it and his reasoning wasnt that
the pally tanked better (never got mentioned, never came up) but that "I
shouldn't have to heal two tanks" and that was it.
As to the wizzy he said "He can learn how to control his agro". I argued
that the wizzy could nuke earlier and a lot more when I was using my spells
to raise agro away from the level his nukes would generate, and yep, you
guessed it, very deaf cleric ears. I left them to it. These days I have
loads of fun agro-kiting or fear-kiting with our guild's 53 wizzie. I feel
practically honoured when the mob continues to come at ME after an ice comet
hits :)
The average group mentality seems to as phase-locked as your druid or
necro insisting they're a solo class. I mean, in God's name just pair those
two up. Stupendously powerful dots + root? <squirty noise>
If all the top end content can *only* be reached and enjoyed via
default_strategy_tank_heal and the amazingly slow agro building powers of
warriors, then I'm not interested in it. I guess I'll get to the point where
our guild can try some ideas and get wiped a lot and quit or go think up
something more fun to do. If it really is that monotonous then it sounds
like the designers never really got past the lord nagafen concept, which is
dissapointing to say the least.
But if it is possible to take these things down any other way, I'm
confident that sooner or later I'll find it :)
Zymyool
> And that's just duoing. God forbid anyone suggest a different
> strategy for group play or that a group sans a cleric can
> achieve anything.
I was at a camp the other day, getting "ok" experience. A guild-mate of
mine was there playing his Ranger and I sent him a tell that he needs to
log his druid some time and he and I can try charm-killing at this camp.
Most of the group left, so I got a guild Wiz and Pally to come over and the
Pally grabbed a cleric and warrior. We did ok; I was still getting
positive EXP and ok loot. During the downtime ( Cleric with KEI was OOM a
lot, too ), I would have the druid snare a mob and then I'd charm and haste
it and let it beat the crap out of another mob. Pally had to leave not
much later, and then the cleric and warrior had to bug out, leaving me and
the Wiz. He said he had a druid bud who may want to join and the guy came
over.
Druid snares, I tash and charm. Druid snares, I tash, he charms. I haste
both while Druid pulls a 3rd and we let the pets demolish the bob, Wizzie
nuking here and there. I EASILY made 4-5 times the EXP per hour with the 3
of us than I was making with the full group. I'm quite stoked to go back
with the same group makeup or maybe with 2 druids.
I am also tired of normal groups. I really enjoyed a trio I had at one of
the Coterie outposts - Me, a Wizzie, and a Necro aggro kiting. Later,
another Necro joined us. Some of the mobs we pulled between Coterie pops
were Skeletons, so we would have 5 skelly skins going at once, which can be
a little confusing at time, but still pretty fun.
I went to this camp with my 2 friends to get these:
Shrouded Boots
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: FEET
AC: 12
STR: +4 DEX: +4 STA: +4 CHA: +5 WIS: +4 INT: +4 AGI: +4
WT: 2.5 Size: SMALL
Class: ALL
Race: ALL
We were about to quit for the night, when we decided to pull 2 more from
the other camp before we logged. The second one dropped them. BOOYA!
Buh-bye Kobold boots.
--
Karana Server
Zymyool Level 54 Gnomish Illusionist
Draglorvin Level 29 Dwarven Warrior
Keenfang Level 15 Troll Beastlord
Purrloin Level 12 Vah Shir Rogue
Rayzin Level 06 Vah Shir Shaman
Dragemrezem Level 01 Halfling Rogue Hole Corpse Dragger
kaev
<snip>
> I can;t remember when it was but Verant increased the taunt cap for both
> Paladins and Shadow Knights some time after RoK was released. Even after
> that I rarely had trouble out taunting a Paladin or a Shadow Knight.
> Perhaps is was due to them understadn thing that I had a good 10 or 20%
> more HPs than them and that I could save mana becasue of it. Maybe.
They raised the skill cap because Taunt became nigh-useless to those
classes at higher levels. But if you're losing agro to a knight who
is taunting then you're grouped with an idiot. Knights normally
generate less hate than Warriors because they cannot dual-wield, which
allows them to melee alongside a Warrior without taking agro. Knights
can generate more hate than a Warrior via their spells, and they can
do it quickly while the Warrior's only way to get more hate fast is a
successful Taunt or a lucky string of +hate procs. This is what makes
knights good for off-tanking and pulling mobs off casters. It also
allows a high level knight to tank successfully even when grouped with
idiots who have no clue how to manage their own agro.
> The big issue I'm running in to now, is everyone is drawing aggro before
> me. Last night I had Clerics healing me after I was down a single bubble
> or two after one round of melee and drawing aggro on to themselves. Then
> there was the Wizard that was sure he was supposed to nuke, nuke, nuke, and
> root. The rogue that kept drawing aggro, like he didn't even know he had
> the evade skill. The monk who only seems to be able to "fall to the
> ground" armed with two staffs that proced a huge aggro spell every single
> round. The list goes on and on. Without some seriously sweet taunting
> weapons it's getting to be a real bitch to play a warrior, especially the
> classic ogre twink...
You're grouping with incompetent players. In the bad old days players
like that would hit the wall somewhere between L20 and L45, unable to
get into groups they would either solo or quit. Now, with KEI for
any fool with a few pp, and formerly extreme levels of twinking being
commonplace, and plenty of KEI'd knights eagerly generating enormous
amounts of hate, they make it to fairly high levels with ease.
> It's still fun but, damn, I'd think people would want to stop dieing
> repeatedly and maybe they'd get a clue when the MT says, "I can't out taunt
> that kind of aggro."
*shrug*
Making the game easier is a GoodThing[tm], right?
Every server must be filled to the brim with lackwitted dolts who
have no idea how to play their character well, right?
The game is too hard if your nephew/uncle/half-brother/second-cousin
(that's just one person) can't make it to L50 in a month, right?
I'd go on, but it's time to go home and I have to walk, uphill through
6-foot snowdrifts under the burning sun, so i'd best get started.
Kaev
James Hicks
> >confident that sooner or later I'll find it :)
> >
>
> but almost all top end content is meant to be soloed or hit with the
triad.
Well I guess that depends on your definition of exploit, but i cant
really comment until I get there :)
> I've enjoyed a few unorthidox groups but for the majority of my time
> playing if I wasn't solo I was in a grind.
-Martin
> And the warriors aren't happy about it, btw. There's been more than one
> thread on the warrior class messageboards asking for SK agrro to be nerfed
> because warriors are getting turned down for groups because there's a SK
or
> Paladin LFG as well. OTOH, shaman and enchanters love us. =)
I generally discount what noobie posters say.
"I want agro NOW! I want 500 DPS! NERF _____ !"
When I group with a guildie warrior, I know without a shadow of a doubt they
are competent tanks, will generate and hold agro extremely well, and are
jealous of nothing that hybrids can do (and when you look at rotations of
bloodfrenzy, render, abhs, warriors are closing in on monk/rogue damage)