Epenthetics revisited
Kim Scheinberg
So why are we sticking with epenthetic, anyway?
Dejanews says this was last discussed on April Fool's Day of last year.
Helge and Tindy both participated briefly in an Epithet/Epenthesis thread
The gist was that Angie Schultz suggested 'epithet' was the word AFU
really meant when 'epenthtic' was adopted. I'm pretty sure that wasn't the
case. I think Eck indeed meant epenthetic
But something went unnoticed amidst the cries of "Shibboleth!"
The noun is, in fact, epenthesis. Epenthetic is the adjectival form
In a group that mocks the nounification of verbs and verbification of
nouns and adjectifying of bimbettes, I'm wondering why this one remains.
Helge, is it simply because 'Will gives great epenthetic' sounds better?
Eck once suggested 'emetic' in response to Emily's 'tmesis' post -- a nice
hybrid, to be sure. But maybe epentmesis is more appropriate
kim "necrolinguist" scheinberg
Bruce Tindall
While I can't answer Kim's question of why we use the
nounificationalized adjective "epenthetic" instead of the
straightforward noun "epenthesis", I can add to the
pendantry potential of this group by listing the eight
metaplasms enumerated by Princeton professor T. V. F. Brogan
in the "elision" article of the New Princeton Encyclopedia
of Poetry and Poetics, one of which metaplasms is "epenthesis".
First, there are five elisions, or devices of contraction
of syllables:
1. apheresis: dropping of a vowel or syllable at the start
of a word.
2. syncope: dropping of a syllable within a word.
3. apocope: dropping of a final syllable or vowel.
4. synaeresis: let me quote the encyclopedia's own
definition, including the original spelling: "coalescing
of two voowels in a word" (did he loose count?)
5. synaloepha: coalescing of two vowels across a word boundary.
Then there are three kinds of extension, or of adding syllables:
6. prosthesis, adding a syllable at the beginning of a word.
7. our friend epenthesis, adding one in the middle.
8. proparalepsis, adding one at the end.
In another article, the Encyclopedia cites one line of Milton's
"On the Morning of Christ's Nativity" in which both an elision
(a syncope) and an extension (an epenthesis) occur:
"Whispering new joyes to the milde ocean"
in which the first word must be pronounced with only two
syllables ("whisp'ring") and the last, to adhere to the
rhyme scheme, with three ("o-ce-an", an epenthesis).
Let me end on a pendantical note and point out that even
mighty Sir William Schwenck Gilbert nods: in "Ruddigore",
when Sir Ruthven (pronounced "Rivven") Murgatroyd gives his
name in full, he says "with greater precision, without the
elision, Sir ROOTH-VENN Murgatroyd", he is misusing the term
"elision", at least according to Brogan's definition. Both
ROOTH-VENN and Rivven have two syllables, so "Rivven" isn't
an elision, it's just sloppy British mumbling (q.v.).
B "I never metaplasm I didn't like" T
--
Bruce Tindall tin...@panix.com
Madeleine Page
Kim Scheinberg (ik...@panix.com) wrote:
: So why are we sticking with epenthetic, anyway?
[snipperoodledoo]
: The noun is, in fact, epenthesis. Epenthetic is the adjectival form
: In a group that mocks the nounification of verbs and verbification of
: nouns and adjectifying of bimbettes, I'm wondering why this one remains.
We don't *mock* the abject practice of nounification or verbifying. We
decry it, cry havoc and unleash the GSDs of war. We bewail it. Excoriate
it. We call it an abomination in the eyes of the net.
However, we are far too offended by the practice to lightly mock it.
: Helge, is it simply because 'Will gives great epenthetic' sounds better?
But 'Will is finishing his epenthesis' sounds nearly as good and much
likelier to be voracious.
If it weren't for the BOA we could just call it TBTGITM and be done with
it.
Madeleine "the bit that goes in the middle goes here" Page
--
Bruce Tindall
Bruce Tindall <tin...@panix.com> wrote:
>While I can't answer Kim's question of why we use the
>nounificationalized adjective "epenthetic" instead of the
>straightforward noun "epenthesis",
Well, I couldn't last night, but now I can try. Perhaps "epenthetic"
is nounifiable by analogy to the word for the bit that goes in the
middle of Russian names, the "patronymic" (e.g. Mikhail "Sergeevich"
Gorbachev).
And while we're on the subject of metaplasms we should observe that
there is an elision in (most? all?) Russian male patronymics.
OTOH, MP will probably argue that there isn't a convenient noun to
use in place of "patronymic", whereas there is a perfectly good noun
"epenthesis". And she may very well be right.
Let me complicate the issue, though, by asking: is the noun
ever properly used to refer to the added syllable(s) (t|them)sel(f|ves),
or only to the practice or procedure of adding the syllable(s)?
If not, then maybe we're doing epenthesis, but adding epenthetics.
B T
--
Bruce Tindall tin...@panix.com
Michele Tepper
Madeleine Page <mp...@panix.com> wrote:
>Kim Scheinberg (ik...@panix.com) wrote:
>
>: Helge, is it simply because 'Will gives great epenthetic' sounds better?
>
>But 'Will is finishing his epenthesis' sounds nearly as good and much
>likelier to be voracious.
It also sounds vaguely like something that might be illegal in State
College, PA.
The American Heritage dictionary defines "epenthesis" as the linguistic
term for "the insertion of a sound in the middle of a word, as in Middle
English *thunder* from Old English *thunor*." From this, it's highly
unclear to me that "epenthesis" is the proper word for the sound [or
words] themselves, and perhaps "epenthetic," understood as a shortened
form of "epenthetic phrase" of course, is the proper word.
Michele "nitpicking is my life" Tepper
--
Michele Tepper "I know that [Will] knows stuff, because sometimes
mte...@panix.com he says stuff." -- Maggie Newman
Alice Faber
>Let me complicate the issue, though, by asking: is the noun
>ever properly used to refer to the added syllable(s) (t|them)sel(f|ves),
>or only to the practice or procedure of adding the syllable(s)?
>If not, then maybe we're doing epenthesis, but adding epenthetics.
As a card-carrying linguist who has actually used the word _epenthesis_ in
casual conversation, let me answer in the affirmative: epenthesis is the
process of adding extraneous material to a word. I can't think of a
general-purpose designator for that which is epenthesized (a phrase which
lacks a certain something in the non-cumbersomeness department). I would
refer to the epenthesized vowel at the beginning of the Spanish word
_esport_, but that certainly isn't generalizable. Nominalizing (the
technical term for nounifying) the adjective epenthetic strikes me as an
eminently reasonable solution in English.
Alice "Q" Faber
Alice Faber
>The American Heritage dictionary defines "epenthesis" as the linguistic
>term for "the insertion of a sound in the middle of a word, as in Middle
>English *thunder* from Old English *thunor*." From this, it's highly
>unclear to me that "epenthesis" is the proper word for the sound [or
>words] themselves, and perhaps "epenthetic," understood as a shortened
>form of "epenthetic phrase" of course, is the proper word.
At least in the usage I'm familiar with, epenthesis can be used for adding
material at the beginning, the middle, or the end of a word. There's a
perfectly good word, prosthesis, for adding material to the beginning of a
word. (Some pendants might concur, but I'm not entirely sure that they
have a leg to stand on.) In similar vein, the general term deletion
subsumes apocope, procope, and syncope, none of which I use as I am
constitutionally unable to remember which is which without a scorecard.
Alic "" Fabr
Phil Edwards
tin...@panix.com (Bruce Tindall) wrote:
>Perhaps "epenthetic"
>is nounifiable by analogy to the word for the bit that goes in the
>middle of Russian names, the "patronymic" (e.g. Mikhail "Sergeevich"
>Gorbachev).
>
>And while we're on the subject of metaplasms we should observe that
>there is an elision in (most? all?) Russian male patronymics.
Eh? If it's 'Sergeevich' you're thinking of, the Russian letter E
(written like that) does double duty as 'e' and 'ye'; hence the sound
of the 'i' at the end of 'Sergei' is still there. Likewise with
patronymics from other names ending in 'i' (e.g. 'Nikolaevich'). Names
ending in consonants don't seem to elide at all (e.g. 'Mikhailovich').
I'll give you 'Ilyich' (from Ilya), but that's the only one I can
think of.
Patronymics, or more particularly the polite form of address
consisting of given name and patronymic, always struck me as
civilised, somehow. Probably nothing to do with afu's epenthetical
habits, then...
Phil "What do you think, Philip Jamesovich?" Edwards
--
Phil Edwards amr...@zetnet.co.uk
"[Glass flow] may take longer than think. Millions?" - 'Mr Burns'
"I want to nominate this post as AFU's Post Of The Year." - Vicki Robinson
John Varela
>Let me end on a pendantical note and point out that even
>mighty Sir William Schwenck Gilbert nods: in "Ruddigore",
>when Sir Ruthven (pronounced "Rivven") Murgatroyd gives his
>name in full, he says "with greater precision, without the
>elision, Sir ROOTH-VENN Murgatroyd", he is misusing the term
>"elision", at least according to Brogan's definition. Both
>ROOTH-VENN and Rivven have two syllables, so "Rivven" isn't
>an elision, it's just sloppy British mumbling (q.v.).
No no no not dear Sir Wm. The OED defines "elision" as: "The action of
dropping out or suppressing...a letter or syllable in pronunciation."
There is no restriction to vowels. Sir Wm. is correct and Professor T. V.
F. Brogan is wrong. So there.
John Varela
Bruce Tindall
Phil Edwards <amr...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>tin...@panix.com (Bruce Tindall) wrote:
>>And while we're on the subject of metaplasms we should observe that
>>there is an elision in (most? all?) Russian male patronymics.
>
>Eh? If it's 'Sergeevich' you're thinking of, the Russian letter E
>(written like that) does double duty as 'e' and 'ye'; hence the sound
>of the 'i' at the end of 'Sergei' is still there. Likewise with
>patronymics from other names ending in 'i' (e.g. 'Nikolaevich'). Names
>ending in consonants don't seem to elide at all (e.g. 'Mikhailovich').
>
>I'll give you 'Ilyich' (from Ilya), but that's the only one I can
>think of.
But Ilyich doesn't elide, because it's pronounced as written.
I meant that the "ev" syllable is elided. Isn't it? Isn't Gorby's
middle name pronounced "Ser-gei-ich", and his son's middle name
would be prounounced "Mi-khail-ich", eliding the "ov"? Or did my
Russian teacher sell me a bill of goods (prounounced "bill-goods")?
--
Bruce Tindall tin...@panix.com
Helge S. Moulding
I've waited for two days now for Kim's post to make its appearance,
so that I could actually respond to it. Instead, I'm having to hook
to Maddy's quote, which means that I'm not entirely certain why Kim
asks me this question.
I have to assume that I am being nominated AFU's arbiter of Good
Taste. This is cool. (A while ago I posted an offcolor joke, and
immediately received comments from others that they were surprised
at me. So evidently there are those who believe that I know good
taste.)
Since only my judgement on the matter of taste is required, I'll
leave the issue of picking the correct word out of a collection of
potentially thousands of obscure bits of English major vocabulary
to the likes of Maddy, Alice, et al, and concentrate on the fact
that it was Kim who, I think, originally used these words on AFU.
Kim, you're a shameless hussy! There, I've said it, and I'm glad.
Did you think I wouldn't see through your attempts to curry favor
with the AFU Arbiter of Good Taste?
--
Helge "But yes, I say it because it sounds good." Moulding
Just another guy
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1401/ with a weird name
Matthew Rabuzzi
Alic Fabr <afa...@panix.com> writes:
:
: In similar vein, the general term deletion subsumes
: constitutionally unable to remember which is which without a scorecard
This is also known as a nepenthetic, if the swoon induces forgetfulness.
So be careful: hyperventilating can cause hyphaeresis.
Matthew "going to lie down and take anaptyxis" Rabuzzi
--
Scott is nothing if not verbal. He loves, and sometimes makes, words.
He rolls words on his tongue with such savor that certain ones--
"gymanastics", "mythyology"--would appear to have an extra syllable;
he seems to like them so much that he is reluctant to let them go
without a bonus. -- John McPhee, _Coming Into the Country_
Guy Daugherty
>
> I have to assume that I am being nominated AFU's arbiter of Good
> Taste. This is cool. (A while ago I posted an offcolor joke, and
> immediately received comments from others that they were surprised
> at me. So evidently there are those who believe that I know good
> taste.)
Sure, I'll bite. I know I'd never qualify.
Guy "these cookies don't taste like Girl Scouts at all!" Daugherty
Alice Faber
>Alic Fabr <afa...@panix.com> writes:
>:
>: In similar vein, the general term deletion subsumes
>: apocope, procope, and syncope, none of which I use as I am
>: constitutionally unable to remember which is which without a scorecard
>
>Syncope, if practiced in the proper emotional climate, makes you swoon.
>This is also known as a nepenthetic, if the swoon induces forgetfulness.
>So be careful: hyperventilating can cause hyphaeresis.
>
Well, I swan! Now, swoon would be the past participle of swin, would it?
Alice "never met an alysis I didn't like" Faber
Phil Gustafson
Bruce Tindall <tin...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>Then there are three kinds of extension, or of adding syllables:
>
>6. prosthesis, adding a syllable at the beginning of a word.
>
>7. our friend epenthesis, adding one in the middle.
>
>8. proparalepsis, adding one at the end.
>
an artificial arm. I suppose an artificial leg is a proparalepsis, and
a Prince Albert is left as an exercise for the reader.
Ph.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
tin...@panix.com (Bruce Tindall) wrote:
>
>Perhaps "epenthetic" >is nounifiable by analogy to the word for
I had thought it was by close analogy with "emetic". Certainly the
reaction, in some instances, is similar.
Charles Wm. "up and out" Dimmick
Phil Edwards
tin...@panix.com (Bruce Tindall) wrote:
>Phil Edwards <amr...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>tin...@panix.com (Bruce Tindall) wrote:
>>>And while we're on the subject of metaplasms we should observe that
>>>there is an elision in (most? all?) Russian male patronymics.
>>
< snip >
>>
>>I'll give you 'Ilyich' (from Ilya), but that's the only one I can
>>think of.
>
>But Ilyich doesn't elide, because it's pronounced as written.
>
>I meant that the "ev" syllable is elided. Isn't it? Isn't Gorby's
>middle name pronounced "Ser-gei-ich", and his son's middle name
>would be prounounced "Mi-khail-ich", eliding the "ov"?
Ah, so you're using the word 'elision' to mean 'omitting a sound from
the spoken form of a word without dropping the corresponding letters
from the written form'. Some would claim that this is the standard
definition of the word, and how right they would be.
*Is* the 'ev'/'ov' syllable elided? It's a new one on me.
Phil "questions, questions" Edwards
--
Phil Edwards amr...@zetnet.co.uk
"Beatrix Potter boiled squirrels" - headline, _Sunday Times_
Michele Tepper
Phil Edwards <amr...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>"Beatrix Potter boiled squirrels" - headline, _Sunday Times_
You see, Madeleine? I am vindicated yet again.
Michele "who knows what evil lurks in the heart of the childrens'
books section?" Tepper
--
Michele Tepper "What's the point of science if no one gets hurt?"
mte...@panix.com -- _The Tick_
Madeleine Page
Bruce Tindall (tin...@panix.com) wrote:
: Perhaps "epenthetic"
: is nounifiable by analogy to the word for the bit that goes in the
: middle of Russian names, the "patronymic" (e.g. Mikhail "Sergeevich"
: Gorbachev).
[elisio^Wsnip]
: OTOH, MP will probably argue that there isn't a convenient noun to
: use in place of "patronymic", whereas there is a perfectly good noun
: "epenthesis". And she may very well be right.
Odds are she would be, were she to make such an observation.
But this gives me an idea.
Madeleine "why don't we just call the damn thing the "internym"?" Page
--
Doug Reade
Madeleine Page wrote:
>
> Madeleine "why don't we just call the damn thing the "internym"?" Page
>
Ooh, ooh! Me, too! (No. . .damn. . . wrong response)
I think that's a charming idea.
Doug "then a nickname could be called 'internyc', and we're right back
where we started" Reade
Sig just got the "I hate tmesis. . .to pieces" line from six months ago.
He's been giggling for three hours straight. I think I'll kill him.