Earworms
JoAnne Schmitz
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/61/67505.htm
JoAnne "a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema
wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep
a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a" Schmitz
--
The new Urban Legends website is <http://www.tafkac.org>
That's TAFKAC.ORG
Do not accept lame imitations at previously okay URLs
Marc Reeve
> JoAnne "a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema
> wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep
> a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a" Schmitz
>
YM "Uyimbube", mis-transcribed by Pete Seeger (who, in his defence, was
apparently working from a rather worn 78) as "Wimoweh".
http://www.3rdearmusic.com/forum/mbube2.html
Marc "first became familiar with the song as performed by the Kingston Trio" Reeve
Steve Maddison
> "Small World" theme is number 10 earworm:
>
> http://my.webmd.com/content/article/61/67505.htm
>
Well-known ditties are bad enough, but the most annoying earworms are
the unrecognisable variety. For those of us without a musical bone in
our body, consulting others for help seems only to result in making a
pratt of oneself.
I'm still waiting for an online database of every song in the world,
indexed by a signature generated by humming the tune into you computer's
microphone.
--
Steve Maddison
Den Haag, The Netherlands
http://www.cosam.org/
TeaLady (Mari C.)
news:codncp$4o8$1...@reader10.wxs.nl:
> JoAnne Schmitz wrote:
>> "Small World" theme is number 10 earworm:
>>
>> http://my.webmd.com/content/article/61/67505.htm
>>
>
> Well-known ditties are bad enough, but the most annoying
> earworms are the unrecognisable variety.
Part 1) >For those of us
> without a musical bone in our body, consulting others for
> help seems only to result in making a pratt of oneself.
>
Part 2) > I'm still waiting for an online database of every
> song in the world, indexed by a signature generated by humming
> the tune into you computer's microphone.
>
For those afflicted with part 1, part 2 could be next to
useless.
--
Tea"Humming Silent Night and hearing Row Row Row Your Boat"Lady
(mari)
Nick Spalding
> JoAnne Schmitz wrote:
> > "Small World" theme is number 10 earworm:
> >
> > http://my.webmd.com/content/article/61/67505.htm
> >
>
> Well-known ditties are bad enough, but the most annoying earworms are
> the unrecognisable variety. For those of us without a musical bone in
> our body, consulting others for help seems only to result in making a
> pratt of oneself.
>
> I'm still waiting for an online database of every song in the world,
> indexed by a signature generated by humming the tune into you computer's
> microphone.
I have a splendid book called The Directory of Tunes' compiled by one Denys
Parsons. It works simply on the sequence of ups, downs or repeats in the note
sequence. Adapted from his introduction:
Write down an asterisk to represent the first note of the theme you wish to
identify. Then play, sing or hum the tune, noting whether successive notes go
down, up, or repeat, writing down D, U, or R in each case. Go on like this to
the 16th note, or as far as you are able.
For readability the codes are entered in the directory in groups of five, so
divide the code you have written down into groups of five from the left
ignoring the asterisk. You are now ready to look up the answer.
Example: in 'God Save the Queen' the second note repeats so we write R, the
third note is up , U, the fourth down, D, the fifth and sixth are up, U U -
and so on. So the full coding turns out to be:
*R U D U U U R U D D D U D D U
which you then look up in the body of the book, or if you already know that it
is a national anthem in a separate section at the end.
It works every time for me!
--
Nick Spalding
Paul Herzberg
> "Small World" theme is number 10 earworm:
> http://my.webmd.com/content/article/61/67505.htm
That's an interesting phenomena.
Paul "Doo Doo De Do Do" Herzberg
Thomas Prufer
>I'm still waiting for an online database of every song in the world,
>indexed by a signature generated by humming the tune into you computer's
>microphone.
Y'know, they have just launched such a service: call in on the cell phone, at
two-fifty a call, hum your tune, get a text message with the title.
No idea if that's the exact method -- no information other than seeing an ad on
the tube.
Thomas Prufer
Nick Spalding
> I have a splendid book called The Directory of Tunes' compiled by one Denys
> Parsons. It works simply on the sequence of ups, downs or repeats in the note
> sequence. Adapted from his introduction:
>
> Write down an asterisk to represent the first note of the theme you wish to
> identify. Then play, sing or hum the tune, noting whether successive notes go
> down, up, or repeat, writing down D, U, or R in each case. Go on like this to
> the 16th note, or as far as you are able.
>
> For readability the codes are entered in the directory in groups of five, so
> divide the code you have written down into groups of five from the left
> ignoring the asterisk. You are now ready to look up the answer.
>
> Example: in 'God Save the Queen' the second note repeats so we write R, the
> third note is up , U, the fourth down, D, the fifth and sixth are up, U U -
> and so on. So the full coding turns out to be:
> *R U D U U U R U D D D U D D U
> which you then look up in the body of the book, or if you already know that it
> is a national anthem in a separate section at the end.
>
> It works every time for me!
Joanne Schmitz tells me that it is accessible on line at:
<http://www.musipedia.org/>
--
Nick Spalding
Keith Willis
wrote:
>I'm still waiting for an online database of every song in the world,
>indexed by a signature generated by humming the tune into you computer's
>microphone.
Got something similar here in the UK, at least.
* Hear unfamiliar tune on radio or whatever
* Dial 2580 on mobile phone
* Hold phone near loudspeaker for about fifteen seconds or so
* Song details are texted to you (for a fee) within about ten minutes
It seems to work through a reasonably impressive amount of background
noise (eg. my local bar). It also doesn't appear to require the
beginning of the track, or indeed any particular part, just a few
seconds continuous sample. I was quite impressed with the indexing
implications.
As a trial I just stuck on fifteen seconds of "Ain't Gone 'n' Give Up
On Love" by _Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble_[1] starting at 40
seconds into the track. The text arrived within 30 seconds, and
correctly identified the artist and track.
1. Obscure enough that now I'm _very_ impressed. Track taken from the
splendid "Blues At Sunrise" album...
--
http://www.bytebrothers.co.uk
PGP key ID 0xEB7180EC
M. J. Freeman
> As a trial I just stuck on fifteen seconds of "Ain't Gone 'n' Give
> Up On Love" by _Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble_[1] starting
> at 40 seconds into the track. The text arrived within 30 seconds,
> and correctly identified the artist and track.
>
> 1. Obscure enough that now I'm _very_ impressed. Track taken from
> the splendid "Blues At Sunrise" album...
It's SRV, man, it's all good.[1]
Seriously, I strongly recommend most of SRV's albums. "Live Alive"
isn't the greatest (it was recording during the cocaine years),
though the track "Willy the Wimp" is a classic.
But "In the Beginning," "Texas Flood," "In Step," "Couldn't Stand the
Weather," and "The Sky is Crying" are all easily worth the price.
I haven't kept up on the plethora of SRV compilations that Sony's
been putting out. In typically annoying fashion, they tend to have a
large number of songs already available on the studio albums with
just a few extras thrown in. (Case in point, the song you tested
with, "Ain't Gone 'N' Give Up On Love," is on the studio album "Soul
to Soul.")
[1] Disclosure: I lived in Austin, TX for a few years, and am
therefore required, by law, to proclaim the greatness of Stevie Ray
Vaugh at all opportunities.
--
Michael J. Freeman mike_f...@SPMBLOKmac.com
'85 VF700S (The Leper) Cincinnati, OH, USA
'83 VF750S (The Shiny Sabre) "Insanity runs in the family
'99 GSF1200S (The Evil Bandit) ...it practically gallops"
JC Dill
<pru...@i-dial.de.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:31:54 +0100, Steve Maddison <st...@cosam.org> wrote:
>
>>I'm still waiting for an online database of every song in the world,
>>indexed by a signature generated by humming the tune into you computer's
>>microphone.
>
>Y'know, they have just launched such a service: call in on the cell phone, at
>two-fifty a call, hum your tune, get a text message with the title.
If someone has the company name of this service, I'd love to get more
info. The UK only number posted in another post in this thread
doesn't help, I'm in the US.
jc
Phil
Shazam.com
Phil
PATRICIA BURNS
This was wild. I typed in *rururd for Haydn's "Surprise Symphony". I got back
"Sounds of Silence" by Paul Simon, et al. It works!
But then...I sing the "Marine Corps hymn" to the tune of "Oh My Darlin' Clementine".
--
Patricia Burns
(to reply via email...address has only one "s")
R H Draney
>
>Nick Spalding wrote:
>
>> Joanne Schmitz tells me that it is accessible on line at:
>> <http://www.musipedia.org/>
>
>"Sounds of Silence" by Paul Simon, et al. It works!
>But then...I sing the "Marine Corps hymn" to the tune of "Oh My Darlin'
>Clementine".
*DUUDDDDUUD hits eleven matches:
"Nowhere Man" (Beatles)
piano sonata No 12 in F, 3rd movement (Mozart)
"Die Fledermaus", overture, 3rd theme (Strauss)
string trio in Eb, 4th movement (Schubert)
polonaise No 2 in E, 3rd theme (Liszt)
"The rake's progress" Act II "Vary the song" (Stravinsky)
"Pomp & Circumstance", 2nd theme (Elgar)
"The New White Hart Hornpipe"
"Cantar de Ronda"
"New White Hart Hornpipe" (again?)
"Dusty Miller"
And a couple of "also possibles" including "Bungalow Bill" and
"Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo"....
R H "was going for the Elgar" Draney
Marc Reeve
You know, "Amazing Grace" works pretty well to several other tunes.
Including "I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing."
Marc "and _Auld Lang Syne_" Reeve
JoAnne Schmitz
>JoAnne Schmitz wrote:
>
>> JoAnne "a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema
>> wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep
>> a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a weema wep a" Schmitz
>>
>YM "Uyimbube", mis-transcribed by Pete Seeger (who, in his defence, was
>apparently working from a rather worn 78) as "Wimoweh".
>
>http://www.3rdearmusic.com/forum/mbube2.html
In my defense, apparently the voices in my head mis-transcribed Seeger.
JoAnne "care for a game of telephone?" Schmitz
BobMac
>>
> You know, "Amazing Grace" works pretty well to several other tunes.
>
> Including "I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing."
>
> Marc "and _Auld Lang Syne_" Reeve
Ectually, (and this is no joke) it was designed that way. The meter is
that of an English ballad called "Chevy Chase." It's a fairly easy form
to write comprehensible English verse in, so the were a lot of ballads,
and a lot of tunes in this form. Look up Amazing Grace, (or the tune,
"New Britain") in an old hymn book, and somewhere on the page you will
likely see the cryptic "CM" which stands for "Common Meter." Others
were, Short Meter, Long Meter, Double Long , Common or Short meter,
various numbered meters, like "10 10 10 10" and my all time favourite,
PM, or "Peculiar Meter."
rm
Dr H
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Thomas Prufer vociferated:
}On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:31:54 +0100, Steve Maddison <st...@cosam.org> wrote:
}
}>I'm still waiting for an online database of every song in the world,
}>indexed by a signature generated by humming the tune into you computer's
}>microphone.
}
}Y'know, they have just launched such a service: call in on the cell phone, at
}two-fifty a call, hum your tune, get a text message with the title.
...and if it's a hardcore punk tune, your cell phone blows up.
Dr H
Dr H
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, PATRICIA BURNS vociferated:
Well, it's an interesting concept, but...
I entered the pattern for the first line of "Jingle Bells" and got
10 pages of possibilities -- 99 songs -- none of which was "Jingle Bells."
I am not impressed.
Dr H
Charles Bishop
<st...@cosam.org> wrote:
>JoAnne Schmitz wrote:
>> "Small World" theme is number 10 earworm:
>>
>> http://my.webmd.com/content/article/61/67505.htm
>>
>
>Well-known ditties are bad enough, but the most annoying earworms are
>the unrecognisable variety. For those of us without a musical bone in
>our body, consulting others for help seems only to result in making a
>pratt of oneself.
>
>I'm still waiting for an online database of every song in the world,
>indexed by a signature generated by humming the tune into you computer's
>microphone.
USENET is a good start. I was plagued by remembering a theme that had been
used in several commercials, but never with anyone who knew what it was. I
asked others, but couldn't reproduce it well enough. When USENET came
along, all I had to ask was what the music was in $Commercial and got the
answer.
charles, Carmina Burana
PATRICIA BURNS
All the Mork from Ork broke the website! (rrr rrr)
PB
PATRICIA BURNS
It's back. Their server was down for awhile. Jingle bells worked for me. (?) *UDDDRRUDDD
R H Draney
Still no luck with that whistling gunfighter thing I've been looking for...I can
point to an old Wendy's commercial and an episode of "The Adventures of Pete and
Pete" where it appears, but all the leads including musipedia haven't panned
out...since the thing is *everywhere*, I'd expect it to be a fixture in the
public-domain repositories...sounds like Morricone, or Bernard Hermann....
One source says it was the theme to an old TV western called "Tombstone
Territory" and had the title "Whistle Me Up A Memory", but I can't get
corroboration....r
Charles Bishop
<dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>Charles Bishop filted:
>>
>>In article <codncp$4o8$1...@reader10.wxs.nl>, Steve Maddison
>><st...@cosam.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Well-known ditties are bad enough, but the most annoying earworms are
>>>the unrecognisable variety. For those of us without a musical bone in
>>>our body, consulting others for help seems only to result in making a
>>>pratt of oneself.
>>>
>>>I'm still waiting for an online database of every song in the world,
>>>indexed by a signature generated by humming the tune into you computer's
>>>microphone.
>>
>>USENET is a good start. I was plagued by remembering a theme that had been
>>used in several commercials, but never with anyone who knew what it was. I
>>asked others, but couldn't reproduce it well enough. When USENET came
>>along, all I had to ask was what the music was in $Commercial and got the
>>answer.
>>
>>charles, Carmina Burana
>
>Still no luck with that whistling gunfighter thing I've been looking
for...I can
>point to an old Wendy's commercial and an episode of "The Adventures of
Pete and
>Pete" where it appears, but all the leads including musipedia haven't panned
>out...since the thing is *everywhere*, I'd expect it to be a fixture in the
>public-domain repositories...sounds like Morricone, or Bernard Hermann....
Any chance the old Wendy's commerical is cached somewhere you could point
someone with musical knowledge to? Similarly, could you ask on rec.arts.tv
for someone who has taped copies of Pete and Pete?
>
>One source says it was the theme to an old TV western called "Tombstone
>Territory" and had the title "Whistle Me Up A Memory", but I can't get
>corroboration....r
Go to
http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/tv/children/westerns/westerns.htm#Tombstone
and scroll down to the show. They have a file you can listen to.
charles
Freddy Letrange
|>Still no luck with that whistling gunfighter thing I've been looking for...I can
|>point to an old Wendy's commercial and an episode of "The Adventures of Pete and
|>Pete" where it appears, but all the leads including musipedia haven't panned
|>out...since the thing is *everywhere*, I'd expect it to be a fixture in the
|>public-domain repositories...sounds like Morricone, or Bernard Hermann....
If it's "everywhere" and "sounds like Morricone," then I'd guess it were a
"sound-alike" from a production-music library (needledrop library; canned
music library -- see, e.g., www.apmmusic.com, www.killertracks.com, or
http://www.royalty-free.tv/search_php_template.php?Genre=Soundalike) -- music
designed to evoke the mood without incurring the licencing cost of a real
Morricone spaghetti-western theme.
For example, if you're producing a TV journalism-awards show and want Aaron
Copland's "Fanfare for the Common Man" for your main title theme but can't
afford it (or Boosey & Hawkes doesn't want to sell it to you at any price),
you might instead licence Graham de Wilde's "Arlington Fanfare" from the KPM
library.
"Freddy 'wondering for some 40 years what that vibraphone/bass/flute piece
"C-- F-- D,G,E-- A-- F,Bb,E-- A-- D,G,C..." is that sounds like a Modern Jazz
Quartet knockoff and has turned up in recent years in at least two episodes of
"The Simpsons"' Letrange"
--
Till the foul crimes done in my days of nature/Are burnt and purg'd away,
Canst thou not send email to "Freddy" at the foul crimes oddfred done
@mindspring in my days of.nature com .
(((( "Freddy" sings the blews! http://freddystrange.tripod.com/ ))))
Karen McMurray
news:corg0...@drn.newsguy.com...
I expect you're thinking of *ududduduududduu, which is what I typed in to
find Morricone's theme for The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Musipedia even
has a midi link so you can confirm.
-karen
--
For miracles should always happen in broad daylight.
The night makes them credible and therefore commonplace.
-- G.K. Chesterton
R H Draney
>for...I can
>> point to an old Wendy's commercial and an episode of "The Adventures of
>Pete and
>> Pete" where it appears, but all the leads including musipedia haven't
>panned
>> out...since the thing is *everywhere*, I'd expect it to be a fixture in
>the
>> public-domain repositories...sounds like Morricone, or Bernard Hermann....
>>
>> One source says it was the theme to an old TV western called "Tombstone
>> Territory" and had the title "Whistle Me Up A Memory", but I can't get
>> corroboration....r
>
>I expect you're thinking of *ududduduududduu, which is what I typed in to
>find Morricone's theme for The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Musipedia even
>has a midi link so you can confirm.
That's not it...nor is it the "Tombstone Territory" theme, now that I've heard
it...mine has the contour *dduududdu...principal instruments are whistle and
chime...the only exact match Musipedia finds is "Horny" by Mousse T, and that's
not it either....
I suspect it's one of those public-domain library pieces...I've just scored some
bootleg videos of "The Adventures of Pete and Pete" on eBay; once they come in
I'll see about extracting the appropriate audio so I can point people at the
actual tune...(it was in the episode about the payphone that had been ringing
constantly for 20 years)....r
amej...@search26.com
Dr H
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, PATRICIA BURNS vociferated:
}PATRICIA BURNS wrote:
}
}
}It's back. Their server was down for awhile. Jingle bells worked for me.
}(?) *UDDDRRUDDD
That's the verse -- I entered the chorus, which is the part most likely
to be played, if only part of the song is played:
*RRRRRRUDUU
Dr H
Jordan Abel
I hear it as *RRRRRDUDUU
Dr H
On Tue, 8 Dec 2004, Jordan Abel vociferated:
In the key of C:
E E E E E E E G C D E
Jin-gle Bells, Jin-gle Bells, Jin-gle all the way...
* R R R R R R U D U U
Dr "best viewed with fixed-width font" H
R H Draney
>
>That's not it...nor is it the "Tombstone Territory" theme, now that I've heard
>it...mine has the contour *dduududdu...principal instruments are whistle and
>chime...the only exact match Musipedia finds is "Horny" by Mousse T, and that's
>not it either....
>
>I suspect it's one of those public-domain library pieces...I've just scored some
>bootleg videos of "The Adventures of Pete and Pete" on eBay; once they come in
>I'll see about extracting the appropriate audio so I can point people at the
>actual tune...(it was in the episode about the payphone that had been ringing
>constantly for 20 years)....r
The DVDs came, and I wasted no time recording an audio track for the episode
"The Call"...while the "gunfight" music appears repeatedly throughout the half
hour program, this scene:
http://home.earthlink.net/~dadoctah/music/PETE.mp3
contains about the longest uninterrupted stretch of it...the file linked above
is just under 1 MB and runs just over one minute in length...there's
considerable dialogue and some sound effects over most of it, but the mystery
theme is easy to hear....
R H "have at it, my little Vikings!" Draney
Louise Bremner
> http://home.earthlink.net/~dadoctah/music/PETE.mp3
^^MP
Case sensitive.
But I can't help with the music, though.
________________________________________________________________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!
R H Draney
>
>R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~dadoctah/music/PETE.mp3
> ^^MP
>Case sensitive.
Sorry...I took note that some link in the chain (transfer to thumb drive?--back
to hard drive?--FTP?) uppercased the filename, but I missed the fact that the
extension was similarly interfered with....r
>But I can't help with the music, though.
Blast...there ought to be newsgroups especially devoted to this kind of
thing....r
TeaLady (Mari C.)
news:cpa1t...@drn.newsguy.com:
Have you tried any music from "Once Upon a Time in the West" ?
It sorta reminds me of that movie. I don't hve the sound-track
to check, thoug - and I'd need a better sample of music to check
for, as my ear isn't all that great.
--
TeaLady (mari)
"I keep telling you, chew with your mouth closed!" Kell the
coach offers advice on keeping that elusive prey caught.
Freddy Letrange
|>The DVDs came, and I wasted no time recording an audio track for the
|>episode "The Call"...while the "gunfight" music appears repeatedly |>throughout the half hour program, this scene:
|>contains about the longest uninterrupted stretch of it...
The track is "The Gunfighter," from the UKoGBaNIan KPM Music Library, which
is owned by EMI and licenced in the USA by Associated Production Music.
It's on KPM CD 129, "Music for the Movies," and was composed by the
prolific Franco Micalizzi and Roberto Pregadio (see, amongst their film
scores listed at imdb.com, Micalizzi's for the 1971 spaghetti western
"They Call Me Trinity" and Pregadio's for "Kiss the Girls and Make Them
Die"). You can listen to the entire cut by going to http://www.apmmusic.com,
clicking on "Play Music Finder," logging in as a guest, and using the search
engine provided.
That the piece is from a production-music library doesn't mean it's in the
public domain; it is in fact protected by copyright, and its owners make
it available only to their own licencees (radio/ television/ film/ audio/
video producers, post-production houses, advertising agencies, etc.), not to
the general public. But production-library music is almost always cheaper and
easier to licence than music from commercial CDs in the record store would be.
It's one-stop shopping: the library usually owns both the composition and the
recording embodying it, so you don't have to make separate deals with a music
publisher and a recording label; and you also don't need to worry about
"re-use" fees and pension-and-welfare payments to talent unions.
- 'Freddy "the Coolidge of Musical Knowledge" Letrange'
R H Draney
>
>It's only RH Draney pursuing something he's not sure of:
(Nice song, that...paraphrasing the lyrics gets you "don't call the cops just
because I'm out here on your lawn in the middle of the night with my butterfly
net")....
>|>The DVDs came, and I wasted no time recording an audio track for the
>|>episode "The Call"...while the "gunfight" music appears repeatedly
>|>throughout the half hour program, this scene:
>|>[http://home.earthlink.net/~dadoctah/music/PETE.MP3]
>|>contains about the longest uninterrupted stretch of it...
>
>The track is "The Gunfighter," from the UKoGBaNIan KPM Music Library, which
>is owned by EMI and licenced in the USA by Associated Production Music.
>It's on KPM CD 129, "Music for the Movies," and was composed by the
>prolific Franco Micalizzi and Roberto Pregadio (see, amongst their film
>scores listed at imdb.com, Micalizzi's for the 1971 spaghetti western
>"They Call Me Trinity" and Pregadio's for "Kiss the Girls and Make Them
>Die"). You can listen to the entire cut by going to http://www.apmmusic.com,
>clicking on "Play Music Finder," logging in as a guest, and using the search
>engine provided.
Have I said lately how much I love this group?...
I *LOVE* this group!...r
John Francis
Preumably because we'd been watching the Matrix Trilogy and
The Lord of the Rings on movie channels, my TiVo decided I
might want to watch another movie featuring Hugo Weaving:
"Priscilla, Queen of the Desert". I'm not sure I agree with
the choice - I tried the first half an hour or so of the movie,
then bailed out.
By that time, though, I'd already seen the opening sequence,
with Hugo Weaving in drag lipsynching to "I've never been to me".
Now I'm stuck with that tune rattling around my head.
Ralph Jones
>I've just been bitten by another one, darn it.
>
>Preumably because we'd been watching the Matrix Trilogy and
>The Lord of the Rings on movie channels, my TiVo decided I
>might want to watch another movie featuring Hugo Weaving:
>"Priscilla, Queen of the Desert". I'm not sure I agree with
>the choice - I tried the first half an hour or so of the movie,
>then bailed out.
>
Now you see there? You missed the pingpong ball sequence.
rj
R H Draney
How a person subject to earworm can watch that movie and *not* come down with
ABBAitis is beyond me....r
John Francis
I didn't notice. But there again I spent six months in Sweden
in the early 70s, so I'm probably immunized against ABBA at any
level liable to be found outside of a Stockholm discotheque.
For that matter, I believe there might even be an ABBA CD somewhere
in our collection of odds-and-ends picked up from the bargain bins.
And how can any group be all bad that spawned a tribute band
with a name worthy of a Dave Barry throwaway? (Bjorn Again)
--
John "but I draw the line at the Bay City Rollers" Francis
Ray Heindl
> I've just been bitten by another one, darn it.
>
> Preumably because we'd been watching the Matrix Trilogy and
> The Lord of the Rings on movie channels, my TiVo decided I
> might want to watch another movie featuring Hugo Weaving:
> "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert". I'm not sure I agree with
> the choice - I tried the first half an hour or so of the movie,
> then bailed out.
Can you disable the feature that causes TiVo to record things that you
didn't request? Or do you like to be surprised?
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply to: xvortr...@yaxhoo.com)
John Francis
Ray Heindl <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>jo...@panix.com (John Francis) wrote:
>
>> I've just been bitten by another one, darn it.
>>
>> Preumably because we'd been watching the Matrix Trilogy and
>> The Lord of the Rings on movie channels, my TiVo decided I
>> might want to watch another movie featuring Hugo Weaving:
>> "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert". I'm not sure I agree with
>> the choice - I tried the first half an hour or so of the movie,
>> then bailed out.
>
>Can you disable the feature that causes TiVo to record things that you
>didn't request?
Yes.
> Or do you like to be surprised?
Why not? It never over-records anything I requested with one
of the TiVo suggestions, so it's only using up otherwise-empty
disk space. There have been a couple of times when it has found
an obscure movie that has been well worth watching.
Letting it record things also gives me a far more accurate
estimate of how much recording time is left. That was quite
important on the original (series one) box, which could hold
anywhere between 24 and 30 hours of recorded material. The
difference is quite important if you've already got quite a
lot of stuff recorded, and are wondering whether there is
quite enough space left for your short-term recording plans.
With the second box it's less of an issue, because unless I
record a lot of stuff in HD I've never come close to filling
the disk.
sewiv
up or down?
Martha Gallagher
[wrt musical notes]
> I know this is a late followup, but what if you can't tell if it goes
> up or down?
>
You are William Hung, and I claim my two-fifty.
Martha
--
"ALPO is 99 cents a can. That's over SEVEN dog dollars!!"
Revek - ASDLC
Louise Bremner
> I know this is a late followup, but what if you can't tell if it goes
> up or down?
I know that this new, "improved" implementation of Google's Usenet
interface does not provide automatic quoting, but do you think you could
copy-and-paste the text you're replying to, for reference? This part of
the thread expired from my newsreader long ago.
Alternatively, consider using a real newsreader yourself....
sewiv
>> I know this is a late followup, but what if you can't tell if it
goes
>> up or down?
>I know that this new, "improved" implementation of Google's Usenet
>interface does not provide automatic quoting, but do you think you
could
>copy-and-paste the text you're replying to, for reference? This part
of
>the thread expired from my newsreader long ago.
Sorry, that was my first post with the broken Google.
>Alternatively, consider using a real newsreader yourself....
Ah, if only there was any access other than google from work....
Mary Shafer
> In the key of C:
>
> E E E E E E E G C D E
>
> Jin-gle Bells, Jin-gle Bells, Jin-gle all the way...
>
> * R R R R R R U D U U
No, that's the chorus. The first line is "Dashing through the snow"
(the second is "In a one-horse open sleigh").
Mary
--
Mary Shafer Retired flight research engineer
shafe...@gmail.com
O J
>Dr H wrote:
>
>> In the key of C:
>>
>> E E E E E E E G C D E
>>
>> Jin-gle Bells, Jin-gle Bells, Jin-gle all the way...
>>
>> * R R R R R R U D U U
>
>No, that's the chorus. The first line is "Dashing through the snow"
>(the second is "In a one-horse open sleigh").
>
>Mary
Of course in Austria, they sing it to slightly different words
Regards,
O J "Copied from 'Yowie' in rec.pets.cats.anecdotes" Gritmon
>Dashing through the bush in a rusty Holden Ute
>Kicking up the dust, Esky in the boot
>Kelpie by my side, Singing Christmas songs
>It's summer time and I am in my singlet, shorts and thongs! Oh!
>
>Chorus:
>Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle all the way
>Christmas in Australia on a scorching summer's day, Oh!
>Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Christmas time is beaut,
>Oh what fun it is to ride in a rusty Holden ute
>
>Engine's getting hot, we dodge the kangaroos
>the swaggie climbs aboard, he is welcome too
>All the family's there, sitting by the pool
>Christmas day in the Aussie way, by the Bar-b-que! Oh!
>
>Come the afternoon and grandpa has a doze
>The kids and Uncle Bruce are swimming in the clothes
>The time comes round to go, we take the family snap
>And pack the car and all shoot through
>Before the washing up! Oh!
>
>Translation:
>Holden Ute: iconic Aussie flat-bed truck
>Esky: Portable insulated box that you keep your
> drinks in so they stay cold through the day
>Kelpie: Iconic Australian dog. A Blue heeler
>Singlet: Undershirt without sleeves
>Swaggie: Short for "Swagman". Iconic Australian
> "roaming person". viz: "Once a jolly swagman..."
>Uncle Bruce: Bruce is the classic name for
> any 'older' Australian male
>Family snap: family photo
>Shoot through: a slang term meaning to leave
> in a hurry so as to avoid your obligations.
No Spam
"Mary Shafer" <mil...@qnet.com> wrote in message
news:2oq9s0h822mfa16bg...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:34:55 -0800, Dr H <hiaw...@efn.org> wrote:
>
>> In the key of C:
>>
>> E E E E E E E G C D E
>>
>> Jin-gle Bells, Jin-gle Bells, Jin-gle all the way...
>>
>> * R R R R R R U D U U
>
> No, that's the chorus.
Yes, that's the chorus. In this song, the chorus comes
first, and also after each verse.
David DeLaney
>
>Yes, that's the chorus. In this song, the chorus comes
>first, and also after each verse.
That would appear not to be the case. Granted, millions of people, if not
thousands, don't KNOW the first verse, so start at the chorus because that's
all they know, but the song itself starts at the first verse.
Dave "misfortune seem'd his lot" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Bob Ward
wrote:
>No Spam <nos...@hormel.org> wrote:
>>"Mary Shafer" <mil...@qnet.com> wrote in message
>>> No, that's the chorus.
>>
>>Yes, that's the chorus. In this song, the chorus comes
>>first, and also after each verse.
>
>That would appear not to be the case. Granted, millions of people, if not
>thousands, don't KNOW the first verse, so start at the chorus because that's
>all they know, but the song itself starts at the first verse.
>
>Dave "misfortune seem'd his lot" DeLaney
Very few people can name the horse, either.
"Oryyf ba Obognvy evat"
Simon Slavin
<slrncsc6q...@gatekeeper.vic.com>:
> No Spam <nos...@hormel.org> wrote:
> >"Mary Shafer" <mil...@qnet.com> wrote in message
> >> No, that's the chorus.
> >
> >Yes, that's the chorus. In this song, the chorus comes
> >first, and also after each verse.
>
> That would appear not to be the case. Granted, millions of people, if not
> thousands, don't KNOW the first verse, so start at the chorus because
> that's all they know, but the song itself starts at the first verse.
Almost nobody knows the first verse to _White Christmas_.
Annoying, since it changes the meaning of the song.
Simon.
--
Using pre-release version of newsreader.
Please tell me if it does weird things.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Almost nobody knows the first verse to _White Christmas_.
> Annoying, since it changes the meaning of the song.
OK. I'll bite. Is it somewhat different than
what one usually hears? A quick google check
shows the first 40 hits with the same lyrics.
charles
MonkeyHawk
"Simon Slavin" <slavins.delete....@hearsay.demon.co.uk> wrote
in
> Almost nobody knows the first verse to _White Christmas_.
> Annoying, since it changes the meaning of the song.
Really?
Are you referring to the verse about writing Christmas cards in Beverly
Hills?
That's the only verse I'm familiar with. (Yeah, I could look it up, but I'm
lazy.)
I'm not sure it changes the meaning of the song, really.
Is there another, more sub..uhm...versive verse I've missed?
David DeLaney
It's about a man (soldier? I'll know in a minute) dying overseas, I belive.
Hit four for "white christmas verse one" is a book review for White Christmas,
Jody Rosen, ISBN 0-9432-1875-2, that explains partway down "A number of things
paved the way for the massive and instant success of the song when released:
the in's and out's of Berlin's planned and executed uses of the song in the
movie Holiday Inn; the change to eliminate the opening verse on all sheet music
after the release of the Bing Crosby recordings; and the claim of wartime
adoption of the song by troops abroad in World War II longing for home and
peace. [...]".
Okay, no, I'm wrong, it's simply telling how the singer is in sunny Beverly
Hills - and finding it, I _have_ heard this before, on arrangements that surely
were made after Bing did it:
"The sun is shining, the grass is green
The orange and palm trees sway
There's never been such a day
In Beverley Hills, L. A.
.. But it's De-cember the twen-ty-fourth
.. And I am longing to be up north: ..."
Dave "four more days and the curse of harmony is LIFTED" DeLaney
Vreejack
Use the "show options" button on the new Google interface to get
automatic quoting and a bunch of other things.
JoAnne Schmitz
<slavins.delete....@hearsay.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Almost nobody knows the first verse to _White Christmas_.
>Annoying, since it changes the meaning of the song.
Terminology varies among different musical forms. Among jazz musicians,
it's usually not called the "first verse," it's just called the "verse."
And often it's a different form altogether from any succeeding non-chorus,
non-bridge sections. The function of the verse is to set the scene for the
remainder of the song. Sometimes omitting it changes the meaning of the
song.
There's another Christmas song with a rarely-heard verse, "Have Yourself A
Merry Little Christmas." The verse here also puts a very different spin on
the song.
Many pop standards have a verse that is not often performed, or remembered.
For example (with help from Google and the search terms "verse" and "rarely
heard"):
A Foggy Day
I Get A Kick Out Of You
Easter Parade
I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now
Shine On Harvest Moon
In The Wee Small Hours
I'm In The Mood For Love
Ain't Misbehavin'
Sweet Georgia Brown
Embraceable You (the verse didn't even make it into the movie version of
"An American In Paris")
A modern song that almost follows this form is the Sade hit "Smooth
Operator" with a spoken rhyming intro.
I'd love to see a quiz: "match the often-omitted verse with the song."
JoAnne "the loveliness of Paris" Schmitz
--
The new Urban Legends website is <http://www.tafkac.org>
That's TAFKAC.ORG
Do not accept lame imitations at previously okay URLs
Lara
> I'd love to see a quiz: "match the often-omitted verse with the song."
I'll start with a gimme:
Should foreign foe e'er sight our coast.
Or dare a foot to land,
We'll rouse to arms like sires of yore
To guard our native strand;
Britannia then shall surely know,
Beyond wide oceans roll
Her sons in fair <deleted>'s land
Still keep a British soul.
In joyful strains, etc
Lara
R H Draney
>
>Many pop standards have a verse that is not often performed, or remembered.
>For example (with help from Google and the search terms "verse" and "rarely
>heard"):
>
>A Foggy Day
>I Get A Kick Out Of You
>Easter Parade
>I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now
>Shine On Harvest Moon
>In The Wee Small Hours
>I'm In The Mood For Love
>Ain't Misbehavin'
>Sweet Georgia Brown
>Embraceable You (the verse didn't even make it into the movie version of
>"An American In Paris")
>
>A modern song that almost follows this form is the Sade hit "Smooth
>Operator" with a spoken rhyming intro.
>
>I'd love to see a quiz: "match the often-omitted verse with the song."
"This day and age we're living in
Gives cause for apprehension
With speed and new invention
And things like fourth dimension.
Yet we get a trifle weary
With Mister Einstein's theory.
We must get down to earth sometimes
Relax, relieve the tension.
No matter what the future brings
Or what may yet be proved,
The simple facts of life are such
They cannot be removed."
R H "I don't have to play it again, do I?" Draney
David DeLaney
> I'd love to see a quiz: "match the often-omitted verse with the song."
Here's one I can stand to post because it's just for 24 more hours:
"Over the ground lies a mantle of white,
A heaven of diamonds shine down through the night,
Two hearts are thrillin' in spite of the chill in the weather.
Love knows no season, love knows no clime,
Romance can blossom any old time,
Here in the open we're walking and hoping together!"
Dave "that's rather a tender Tennessee subject" DeLaney
Simon Slavin
>Simon Slavin wrote:
>
>> Almost nobody knows the first verse to _White Christmas_.
>> Annoying, since it changes the meaning of the song.
>
>OK. I'll bite. Is it somewhat different than
>what one usually hears? A quick google check
>shows the first 40 hits with the same lyrics.
Oh, I'd expect posters to this froup to know it. But that's
almost nobody. Most people think that the singer is singing
about Christmas in July. Instead the singer is singing at
Christmas day, and all he's nostalgic about is the snows of
yesteryear.
I hereby declare _White Christmas_ to be the themesong of
Global Warming. If it exists. Which I would rather this
group didn't discuss.
D.F. Manno
JoAnne Schmitz <jsch...@qis.net> wrote:
> I'd love to see a quiz: "match the often-omitted verse with the song."
I'm the glum one.
It's explainable.
I met someone
Unattainable.
Life's a bore.
The world is my oyster no more.
All the papers
Where I led the news
With my capers
Now will spread the news:
"Superman turns out to be flash in the pan."
--
D.F. Manno
dfm2a...@spymac.com
"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream
will never die."
R H Draney
>
>In article <4aoos09e34o2nq4al...@4ax.com>,
> JoAnne Schmitz <jsch...@qis.net> wrote:
>
>> I'd love to see a quiz: "match the often-omitted verse with the song."
>
>I'm the glum one.
>It's explainable.
>I met someone
>Unattainable.
>Life's a bore.
>The world is my oyster no more.
>All the papers
>Where I led the news
>With my capers
>Now will spread the news:
>"Superman turns out to be flash in the pan."
The Fifth Dimension: "Up, Up and Away"?...r
peachy ashie passion
Wow. I've never heard of anyone who thought White Christmas was
about Christmas in July.
--
"Natives who beat drums to drive off evil spirits are objects of
scorn to smart Americans who blow horns to break up traffic jams."
~ Mary Ellen Kelly
AFPslave to Mistress Stacie
ashes...@verizon.net
Karen J. Cravens
news:JjCzd.7953$L7.7558@trnddc05:
> Wow. I've never heard of anyone who thought White Christmas was
> about Christmas in July.
Ne meether. I mean, "just like the ones we used to know" doesn't imply
"six months ago" to *me*.
Of course, for me it's "just like the ones we used to have 20 years ago,"
but if you know me that implies "when I lived in Indiana and not Kansas,"
rather than any general climatic change.
(We had another brown Christmas. Le sigh.)
--
Karen J. Cravens
R H Draney
>
>Of course, for me it's "just like the ones we used to have 20 years ago,"
>but if you know me that implies "when I lived in Indiana and not Kansas,"
>rather than any general climatic change.
One of the standard holiday practices in my family is to listen to Bob Elliot
(of Bob & Ray fame) read Robert Benchley's "A Good Old-Fashioned
Christmas"...yes, there's snow aplenty in "East Grimace, Vermont", and Benchley
made much of the need to break the ice in the pitcher to wash one's face on
Christmas morning....
I find it interesting that this essay was apparently written around 1927, so
what the author decries as features of a "modern" Christmas seem quaint and
old-fashioned to us, and probably to our parents as well...the "old-fashioned"
sort described harks back to the 19th century (as evidenced by the choice of
reading material at the ancestral farmhouse)....r
Marc Reeve
That's not the horse's name, though... it's an adjective.
Marc "'Jingle Bells' was written by a resident of Savannah, GA" Reeve
Donna Richoux
> Marc "'Jingle Bells' was written by a resident of Savannah, GA" Reeve
Apparently, the mayors and historical societies of Medford,
Massachusetts and Savannah, Georgia have been politely squabbling about
this for some time. Examples:
http://www.medford.org/History/book/jinglebells.htm
http://www.savannah-online.com/full_story.cfm?sect=TourismOurCity&id=443
Another Medford-born person, Lydia Maria Childs, wrote "Over the River
and Through the Woods." Although maybe not in Medford...
--
Donna "Medford, a great town to be FROM" Richoux
rtypke
> }(?) *UDDDRRUDDD
>
> That's the verse -- I entered the chorus, which is the part most
likely
> to be played, if only part of the song is played:
>
> *RRRRRRUDUU
>
> Dr H
I added the chorus, with a link to the main entry - try:
http://musipedia.org/contour/RRRRRRUDUU
(BTW: everybody who finds a missing melody is very welcome to enter it)
Cheers,
Rainer
Bob Ward
wrote:
Horse's names can't be adjectives?
I guess that means that all of Santa's reindeer were anonymous as
well.
Bill Kinkaid
wrote:
>Marc Reeve <ma...@nospam.calm> wrote:
I'm too lazy to look up the above websites, but WTF would someone from
Savannah, GA be doing writing songs about snow?
Bill in Vancouver
"We are running twenty-first century software
on hardware last upgraded 50,000 years ago or more.
This may explain a lot of what we see in the news."
- Ronald Wright, A Short History of Progress
MonkeyHawk
"Bill Kinkaid" <billk...@telus.net> wrote in
> I'm too lazy to look up the above websites, but WTF would someone from
> Savannah, GA be doing writing songs about snow?
>
> Bill in Vancouver
What could it matter to someone in Vancouver?
Joe Myers
"The people of Savannah, Georgia have one word for snow."
David DeLaney
Well, I was at first going to be trol-lo-loed into posting that also, but on
reflection I found I didn't -know- that they hadn't named the horse after that
feature of his equipage...
Dave "la plume de mon oncle" DeLaney
JC Dill
wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 14:55:31 -0800, Marc Reeve <ma...@nospam.calm>
>wrote:
>
>Horse's names can't be adjectives?
Yes, the name *can* be an adjective, but bob-tail is commonly used as
an equine adjective[1] and rarely (if ever) used as a name. It makes
as much sense to think "bob-tail" is a name as to think that "brown"
is the name of an animal described as brown dog.
jc "doo dah, doo dah"
[1] I bet my money on a bob-tailed nag
Somebody bet on the gray.
ron saarna
"JC Dill" <jcdi...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:bkh4t0l6h6lfh1nq5...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 01:02:49 GMT, Bob Ward <bob...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 14:55:31 -0800, Marc Reeve <ma...@nospam.calm>
> >wrote:
> >
> >Horse's names can't be adjectives?
>
> Yes, the name *can* be an adjective, but bob-tail is commonly used as
> an equine adjective[1] and rarely (if ever) used as a name. It makes
> as much sense to think "bob-tail" is a name as to think that "brown"
> is the name of an animal described as brown dog.
Ol' Yeller when he comes back is gonna be pissed at you (and a few other
things too). Also, if you see Spot coming, run Marc, run. Just be careful
that him and Patches haven't got you boxed in.
> [1] I bet my money on a bob-tailed nag
> Somebody bet on the gray.
Ever been to the races? In this case the descriptions fit better rather than
naming the actual horses. I don't think the song would have been half as
popular if the verse were:
I bet my money on Grandama Jones' Secret Underpants
Somebody bet on Straight Running Until Tuesday.
Then again, maybe it would have...
Ron "I have known quite a few dogs named Bruno" Saarna
JC Dill
<dukiesp...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>"JC Dill" <jcdi...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>news:bkh4t0l6h6lfh1nq5...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 01:02:49 GMT, Bob Ward <bob...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 14:55:31 -0800, Marc Reeve <ma...@nospam.calm>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >Horse's names can't be adjectives?
>>
>> Yes, the name *can* be an adjective, but bob-tail is commonly used as
>> an equine adjective[1] and rarely (if ever) used as a name. It makes
>> as much sense to think "bob-tail" is a name as to think that "brown"
>> is the name of an animal described as brown dog.
>
>Ol' Yeller when he comes back is gonna be pissed at you (and a few other
>things too). Also, if you see Spot coming, run Marc, run. Just be careful
>that him and Patches haven't got you boxed in.
What part of "a name can be an adjective" wasn't clear? Yes, Ol'
Yeller, Spot, and Patches are common animal names derived from
descriptive adjectives. There are lots of horses named Red, Dusty,
Buck, Blaze, Star, Shorty, etc. But it is NOT common to name a horse
Bob-tail. I've seen or handled thousands of horses over the past 30
years, and I've never encountered a horse so named, every time the
term has been use it has been descriptive rather than used as a name.
>> [1] I bet my money on a bob-tailed nag
>> Somebody bet on the gray.
>
>Ever been to the races?
I worked on the racetrack (Churchill Downs) for 6 months when I was
19. What about you?
> In this case the descriptions fit better
The point is that those are descriptions, not names.
The reasons why a song about riding in a sleigh describes the horse as
bob-tail is because A) driving horses usually have bobbed tails to
keep the tail out of the traces and out of the driver's face, and B)
when you are sitting behind the horse the bobbed tail is in clear
view. Anyone who has worked with bobbed tail driving horses knows
this is obvious.
jc
Donna Richoux
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 01:30:05 +0100, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
> wrote:
> >Marc Reeve <ma...@nospam.calm> wrote:
>
> >> Marc "'Jingle Bells' was written by a resident of Savannah, GA" Reeve
> >
> >Apparently, the mayors and historical societies of Medford,
> >Massachusetts and Savannah, Georgia have been politely squabbling about
> >this for some time. Examples:
> >
> >http://www.medford.org/History/book/jinglebells.htm
> >http://www.savannah-online.com/full_story.cfm?sect=TourismOurCity&id=443
> >
> >Another Medford-born person, Lydia Maria Childs, wrote "Over the River
> >and Through the Woods." Although maybe not in Medford...
>
> I'm too lazy to look up the above websites, but WTF would someone from
> Savannah, GA be doing writing songs about snow?
He was dreaming of a white Christmas, just like the ones he used to
know.
--
Donna "'from' is a four-letter word" Richoux
ron saarna
> >> Yes, the name *can* be an adjective, but bob-tail is commonly used as
> >> an equine adjective[1] and rarely (if ever) used as a name. It makes
> >> as much sense to think "bob-tail" is a name as to think that "brown"
> >> is the name of an animal described as brown dog.
> >
> >Ol' Yeller when he comes back is gonna be pissed at you (and a few other
> >things too). Also, if you see Spot coming, run Marc, run. Just be careful
> >that him and Patches haven't got you boxed in.
>
> What part of "a name can be an adjective" wasn't clear? Yes, Ol'
> Yeller, Spot, and Patches are common animal names derived from
> descriptive adjectives. There are lots of horses named Red, Dusty,
> Buck, Blaze, Star, Shorty, etc. But it is NOT common to name a horse
> Bob-tail. I've seen or handled thousands of horses over the past 30
> years, and I've never encountered a horse so named, every time the
> term has been use it has been descriptive rather than used as a name.
Go back a few more years. The Thoroughbred Bloodlines site lists a stud
called Bobtail from 1795:
http://www.bloodlines.net/TB/Studbook/EarlyB.htm
His progeny was a horse named Sprite. Equally uncommon, but clearly not
unheard of, and neither unconventional like the racehorses seem to be named
now. Why bring common into this, though?
Also, you clipped my point about all the dogs named Bruno I see, but left
your assertion about "brown dog" as it stood. It may not make sense to you
that it happens, but there it is.
> >> [1] I bet my money on a bob-tailed nag
> >> Somebody bet on the gray.
> >
> >Ever been to the races?
>
> I worked on the racetrack (Churchill Downs) for 6 months when I was
> 19. What about you?
I have been to the races. I don't bet directly on Papa Joe's Mortgage
Payment, but on the one in red, or number 3, as the case may be.
> > In this case the descriptions fit better
>
> The point is that those are descriptions, not names.
>
> The reasons why a song about riding in a sleigh describes the horse as
> bob-tail is because A) driving horses usually have bobbed tails to
> keep the tail out of the traces and out of the driver's face, and B)
> when you are sitting behind the horse the bobbed tail is in clear
> view. Anyone who has worked with bobbed tail driving horses knows
> this is obvious.
The above mentioned thoroughbred wasn't a driving horse, yet it had the
name. I'm sure if I dig deeper I'll find other horses named so.
I have been on a few sleigh rides myself, and it isn't uncommon to know the
horse's name, as uncommon as you think the name may be. What is more curious
is that Horse's ring and Bobtail's ring would fit equally well as far as
timing goes. Why would the song's writer go to extreme lengths to make sure
that only those who have "worked with bobbed tail driving horses" would
understand the "obvious" reference?
Ron "making spirits rise" Saarna
Donna Richoux
[snip discussion of whether the horse in "Jingle Bells" could have been
named "Bobtail"]
> Go back a few more years. The Thoroughbred Bloodlines site lists a stud
> called Bobtail from 1795:
>
> http://www.bloodlines.net/TB/Studbook/EarlyB.htm
The original sheet music (1857) is at the "Music of the Nation" site.
http://tinyurl.com/6ryeh
or
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=mussm&fileName=sm2/sm1857/62
0000/620520/mussm620520.db&recNum=1&itemLink=S?ammem/mussm:@OR(@field(AU
THOR+@od1(Pierpont,+J++))+@field(OTHER+@od1(Pierpont,+J++)))&linkText=0
The line was clearly printed with no capital letter on "bob tail"
Bells on bob tail ring
On the other hand, the next verse says "The horse was Lean and Lank."
No, I'm kidding, there were no capitals there either.
--
Donna "good name, though, eh?" Richoux
Ralph Jones
wrote:
[snip]
>
>I'm too lazy to look up the above websites, but WTF would someone from
>Savannah, GA be doing writing songs about snow?
>
r "almost inherited a mansion there" j
JC Dill
<dukiesp...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Go back a few more years. The Thoroughbred Bloodlines site lists a stud
>called Bobtail from 1795:
>
>http://www.bloodlines.net/TB/Studbook/EarlyB.htm
>
>His progeny was a horse named Sprite. Equally uncommon, but clearly not
>unheard of, and neither unconventional like the racehorses seem to be named
>now. Why bring common into this, though?
One race horse named something descriptive for a driving horse doesn't
mean that it would be common to name a driving horse with that name.
Common matters because the song/poem's author will consider what
readers common experience with the term is. The common experience
when this song was written (James Pierpoint composed the song in 1857)
was that when you refer to a horse as a bob-tail that you are
describing an un-named horse, not using a horse's name.
It is very uncommon for a thoroughbred racehorse to have a bobbed
tail. This would only happen due to an accident as a long tail helps
the horse balance when galloping, and keeps flies off the horse. A
breeder wouldn't remove or shorten it without a darn good reason.
(Horses bred for driving have their tails bobbed shortly after they
are born, just like doberman and pointer dogs etc.) So it would make
sense that if any horse was given the name Bobtail, it would be a
racehorse with an unusual bobbed tail, rather than a driving horse
with a common bobbed tail.
>Also, you clipped my point about all the dogs named Bruno I see, but left
>your assertion about "brown dog" as it stood. It may not make sense to you
>that it happens, but there it is.
I meant to snip both. It is not unusual to give an animal a name that
relates to its color, there are horses named Red and Dusty and so
forth as I mentioned. But bob-tail is not commonly used in that way!
>> >> [1] I bet my money on a bob-tailed nag
>> >> Somebody bet on the gray.
>> >
>> >Ever been to the races?
>>
>> I worked on the racetrack (Churchill Downs) for 6 months when I was
>> 19. What about you?
>
>I have been to the races. I don't bet directly on Papa Joe's Mortgage
>Payment, but on the one in red, or number 3, as the case may be.
If you don't research Papa Joe's Mortgage Payment's past performances
(which are recorded by his name, not his color or number), then your
bet is a sucker bet. The track take on each race's betting pool (the
take is what runs the track, pays for the purses, pays for the stalls,
pays for maintenance, etc.) usually exceeds 15% of the pot. Betting
on horses has a very low return as compared to casino games (which
return well in excess of 95% of the money placed) so if you want to
win in the long run you need to know the HORSES and you need to know
their names to know the horses.
Not that the song is NOT using the horse's names, but rather their
descriptions, "a bob-tail nag" and "the gray". The betters are
betting based on which horse they "fancy", rather than having any
actual info on the horses. They are just having a good time, and are
betting with each other. The song was also penned in 1850, the same
era as Jingle Bells. Again, this is an era when only driving horses
had bobbed tails, race horses would have long tails, and any horse
with a short tail would be unusual, you would use this unusual marking
to describe that horse.
>> > In this case the descriptions fit better
>>
>> The point is that those are descriptions, not names.
>>
>> The reasons why a song about riding in a sleigh describes the horse as
>> bob-tail is because A) driving horses usually have bobbed tails to
>> keep the tail out of the traces and out of the driver's face, and B)
>> when you are sitting behind the horse the bobbed tail is in clear
>> view. Anyone who has worked with bobbed tail driving horses knows
>> this is obvious.
>
>The above mentioned thoroughbred wasn't a driving horse, yet it had the
>name. I'm sure if I dig deeper I'll find other horses named so.
>I have been on a few sleigh rides myself, and it isn't uncommon to know the
>horse's name, as uncommon as you think the name may be. What is more curious
>is that Horse's ring and Bobtail's ring would fit equally well as far as
>timing goes.
Uh, no.
"Bells on horse's ring" sounds the same as "bells on horses ring",
which means more than one horse and completely changes the experience
and song. Also, the sound "horses" (or horse's) is difficult to sing
clearly with the repeated s sound and could come out sounding like
"horses sring"
>Why would the song's writer go to extreme lengths to make sure
>that only those who have "worked with bobbed tail driving horses" would
>understand the "obvious" reference?
Describing a sleigh horse as a bob-tail makes for a more colorful
song. It is describing a *driving* horse, as opposed to a riding
horse or a race horse or a show horse, etc. Why use cat when you can
say mouser? Why use dog when you can say pointer? Why use horse when
you can say bob-tail? If a poem or song said "Bob's pointer flushed
the birds" would you think that the dog's name was Pointer?
If you still insist that you think the song is about a horse named
Bobtail, go right ahead and keep on thinking that. It's obvious that
no amount of informed opinion will cause you to reconsider your
position, so I'll stop wasting my time.
jc
Marc Reeve
Not the fourth verse, but the third.
Marc "v. v. interesting" Reeve
R H Draney
>
>r "almost inherited a mansion there" j
Translation: "inherited manure there"....
R H "'almost' because it's on the same page of the dictionary" Draney
Ralph Jones
wrote:
Yeah, that's about it...the relative who did get it eventually deeded
it to the county as a museum to unload the taxes, though she gets to
live in it for life. On my last visit I had to buy a ticket.
rj
ron saarna
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:24:42 -0500, "ron saarna"
> <dukiesp...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >Go back a few more years. The Thoroughbred Bloodlines site lists a stud
> >called Bobtail from 1795:
> >
> >http://www.bloodlines.net/TB/Studbook/EarlyB.htm
> >
> >His progeny was a horse named Sprite. Equally uncommon, but clearly not
> >unheard of, and neither unconventional like the racehorses seem to be
named
> >now. Why bring common into this, though?
>
> One race horse named something descriptive for a driving horse doesn't
> mean that it would be common to name a driving horse with that name.
>
> Common matters because the song/poem's author will consider what
> readers common experience with the term is. The common experience
> when this song was written (James Pierpoint composed the song in 1857)
> was that when you refer to a horse as a bob-tail that you are
> describing an un-named horse, not using a horse's name.
Well then it makes sense as well that Fanny Bright was not chosen for her
common name, but the common image that such a descpription would invoke. All
this imagery in a song composed for children in a Boston Sunday School
Thanksgiving celebration! No wonder the poor chap moved to Georgia soon
afterwards. Did they escort him to the train station, or did he steal away
in the dead of night?
> >> >Ever been to the races?
> >>
> >> I worked on the racetrack (Churchill Downs) for 6 months when I was
> >> 19. What about you?
> >
> >I have been to the races. I don't bet directly on Papa Joe's Mortgage
> >Payment, but on the one in red, or number 3, as the case may be.
>
> If you don't research Papa Joe's Mortgage Payment's past performances
> (which are recorded by his name, not his color or number), then your
> bet is a sucker bet. The track take on each race's betting pool (the
> take is what runs the track, pays for the purses, pays for the stalls,
> pays for maintenance, etc.) usually exceeds 15% of the pot. Betting
> on horses has a very low return as compared to casino games (which
> return well in excess of 95% of the money placed) so if you want to
> win in the long run you need to know the HORSES and you need to know
> their names to know the horses.
>
> Not that the song is NOT using the horse's names, but rather their
> descriptions, "a bob-tail nag" and "the gray".
Actually, "the bay", but who's keeping track?
> >The above mentioned thoroughbred wasn't a driving horse, yet it had the
> >name. I'm sure if I dig deeper I'll find other horses named so.
> >I have been on a few sleigh rides myself, and it isn't uncommon to know
the
> >horse's name, as uncommon as you think the name may be. What is more
curious
> >is that Horse's ring and Bobtail's ring would fit equally well as far as
> >timing goes.
>
> Uh, no.
>
> "Bells on horse's ring" sounds the same as "bells on horses ring",
> which means more than one horse and completely changes the experience
> and song.
Only to those that weren't paying attention at the beginning when it was
described as a one-horse open sleigh.
>Also, the sound "horses" (or horse's) is difficult to sing
> clearly with the repeated s sound and could come out sounding like
> "horses sring"
Redundant second half of your point to be included in an "also", however I
can't see horse's being any more difficult to sing than " horse", when there
was certainly greater chance of confusion with "O'er" being misunderstood as
"or" a few lines earlier, especially by children.
> >Why would the song's writer go to extreme lengths to make sure
> >that only those who have "worked with bobbed tail driving horses" would
> >understand the "obvious" reference?
>
> Describing a sleigh horse as a bob-tail makes for a more colorful
> song. It is describing a *driving* horse, as opposed to a riding
> horse or a race horse or a show horse, etc. Why use cat when you can
> say mouser? Why use dog when you can say pointer? Why use horse when
> you can say bob-tail? If a poem or song said "Bob's pointer flushed
> the birds" would you think that the dog's name was Pointer?
Following your logic about "horses sring" the greater chance for confusion
lies in "Bob Spointer". Where did the dog come from, and more importantly
why is this hitherto unnamed action hero never mentioned?
> If you still insist that you think the song is about a horse named
> Bobtail, go right ahead and keep on thinking that. It's obvious that
> no amount of informed opinion will cause you to reconsider your
> position, so I'll stop wasting my time.
I never said it was a song about a horse named Bobtail. It is clearly a song
about a sleigh ride. Stop putting words in my mouth.
Poetry often enters through the window of irrelevance.
-M.C.Richards
Ron "'scuse me, while I kiss this guy" Saarna
JC Dill
<dukiesp...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Not that the song is NOT using the horse's names, but rather their
>> descriptions, "a bob-tail nag" and "the gray".
>
>Actually, "the bay", but who's keeping track?
Google is:
107 hits
14 hits, but 2 of them have "somebody bet on the gray" in the lyrics,
and just mention bay elsewhere on the page.
jc
Donna Richoux
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:19:33 -0500, "ron saarna"
> <dukiesp...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >> Not that the song is NOT using the horse's names, but rather their
> >> descriptions, "a bob-tail nag" and "the gray".
> >
> >Actually, "the bay", but who's keeping track?
>
> Google is:
I like counting Google numbers, but I've found that what they're worst
at is finding accurate quotes.
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&client=firefox-a&r
ls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22my+money+on+a+bob-tailed+nag%22+g
ray&btnG=Search>
>
> 107 hits
>
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&client=firefox-a&r
ls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22my+money+on+a+bob-tailed+nag%22+b
ay&btnG=Search>
>
> 14 hits, but 2 of them have "somebody bet on the gray" in the lyrics,
> and just mention bay elsewhere on the page.
>
Since I happened to have the "Music for the Nation" site open earlier
today, I went back to it for "Camptown Races." The 1852 lyrics were
definitely "bet on de bay".
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?mussm:4:./temp/~ammem_SWXw::
(Click on "View this Item")
By the way, the original wording was "I'll bet my money on de bob-tail
nag" as well as "de bay", so the "de" adds confusion to your above
Google search.
--
Donna "doo-dah" Richoux
ron saarna
"Donna Richoux" <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1gpl2ds.19v8y3s1ifzuadN%tr...@euronet.nl...
> JC Dill <jcdi...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:19:33 -0500, "ron saarna"
> > <dukiesp...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >
> > >> Not that the song is NOT using the horse's names, but rather their
> > >> descriptions, "a bob-tail nag" and "the gray".
> > >
> > >Actually, "the bay", but who's keeping track?
> >
> > Google is:
>
> I like counting Google numbers, but I've found that what they're worst
> at is finding accurate quotes.
> By the way, the original wording was "I'll bet my money on de bob-tail
> nag" as well as "de bay", so the "de" adds confusion to your above
> Google search.
>
> --
> Donna "doo-dah" Richoux
Like I said, who de heck is counting?
Ron "'scuse me will I kiss de sky" Saarna
JC Dill
wrote:
> http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?mussm:4:./temp/~ammem_SWXw::
Temporary file open error. Display failed.
I did a query on camptown, and the first hit was for "Camptown races a
favorite Ethiopian song" in the "African-American Sheet Music"
category. I wonder if the very different versions are due to
ethnic/regional variations. Some of the "de bay" versions have "bob
tail hoss" instead of nag, including several versions with the title
Bob Tail Nag, that don't contain the word "nag" anywhere in the
lyrics. So it seems that the accuracy of these many different
versions is dubious and that it's hard to tell which is the original
version as Foster penned it. And at any rate, the "gray" version is
quite common and is printed that way in many modern songbooks, and is
the version that I learned around the campfire..
> (Click on "View this Item")
>
>By the way, the original wording was "I'll bet my money on de bob-tail
>nag" as well as "de bay", so the "de" adds confusion to your above
>Google search.
That is very interesting. A "bet my money" bob nag "de gray" search
only finds 2 hits, while changing to "de bay" finds 48 hits.
I also found several versions with a "Du da, do da da" chorus line:
<http://memory.loc.gov/learn/collections/amsing/langarts.html>
<quote>
Camptown ladies, sing dis song,
Du da, du da.
Camptown race track five miles long,
Du da, du da da.
Go down dar wid my hat caved in,
Du da, du da.
Come back home wid pocket full ob tin,
Du da, du da da.
</quote>
Which is very different from the "Oh! doo-dah-day" versions.
jc
Bob Ward
<dukiesp...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>Well then it makes sense as well that Fanny Bright was not chosen for her
>common name, but the common image that such a descpription would invoke. All
>this imagery in a song composed for children in a Boston Sunday School
>Thanksgiving celebration! No wonder the poor chap moved to Georgia soon
>afterwards. Did they escort him to the train station, or did he steal away
>in the dead of night?
I always assumed that the verse referred to here was written
especially for Barbra Striesand, and that the name was "Fanny Brice",
the character she portrayed in "Funny Girl". The business about
"upsot?" certainly sounds like a Streisand schtick to me.
Apparently those were the original lyrics to the song, based on what
I've found using Google.
I guess it's a good thing that I didn't use the line about the
least-known of Santa's reindeer, isn't it?
The least-known of all the reindeer is the ninth one - Olive.
"Byvir, gur bgure ervaqrre, hfrq gb ynhtu naq pnyy uvz anzrf"
Donna Richoux
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 01:36:21 +0100, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
> wrote:
>
> > http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?mussm:4:./temp/~ammem_SWXw::
>
> Temporary file open error. Display failed.
Hm, they seem to make temporary URLs that expire; when I go there today,
the last four letters are different. I don't know how to send you to the
right page -- there are four versions of "Camptown Races" at "Music for
the Nation," but only one has words. Let me make a TinyURL of the actual
page (even though I see "temp" in there, too)
and if it doesn't work, you could start at the beginning:
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/mussmquery.html
>
> I did a query on camptown, and the first hit was for "Camptown races a
> favorite Ethiopian song" in the "African-American Sheet Music"
> category. I wonder if the very different versions are due to
> ethnic/regional variations. Some of the "de bay" versions have "bob
> tail hoss" instead of nag, including several versions with the title
> Bob Tail Nag, that don't contain the word "nag" anywhere in the
> lyrics. So it seems that the accuracy of these many different
> versions is dubious and that it's hard to tell which is the original
> version as Foster penned it.
It's known that Foster didn't write everything that bears his name. The
minstrel-show era was the beginning of popular music as we know it, and
exactly who wrote what (or who copyrighted an existing song) is very
muddled. And probably not of great interest to this group. Whether
there's any doubt about the provenance of "Camptown Races" would take
some further research. But yes, even if it began by Foster publishing a
single version, it would have been folk-processed immediately. These
things spread mostly by word of mouth.
>And at any rate, the "gray" version is
> quite common and is printed that way in many modern songbooks, and is
> the version that I learned around the campfire..
>
> > (Click on "View this Item")
> >
> >By the way, the original wording was "I'll bet my money on de bob-tail
> >nag" as well as "de bay", so the "de" adds confusion to your above
> >Google search.
>
> That is very interesting. A "bet my money" bob nag "de gray" search
> only finds 2 hits, while changing to "de bay" finds 48 hits.
>
> I also found several versions with a "Du da, do da da" chorus line:
>
> <http://memory.loc.gov/learn/collections/amsing/langarts.html>
>
> <quote>
> Camptown ladies, sing dis song,
> Du da, du da.
> Camptown race track five miles long,
> Du da, du da da.
> Go down dar wid my hat caved in,
> Du da, du da.
> Come back home wid pocket full ob tin,
> Du da, du da da.
> </quote>
>
> Which is very different from the "Oh! doo-dah-day" versions.
You mean some variation in the "du da da" business? Because the rest of
the words are those on the sheet music (tinyURL above, and choose
Previous Page).
--
Donna "gwine to run" Richoux
Brian Huntley
>afterwards. Did they escort him to the train station, or did he steal
away
>in the dead of night?
I heard he was leaving on that midnight train to Georgia.
- Brian "Simpler place" Huntley
Lee Ayrton
>>>> Ever been to the races?
>>>
>>> I worked on the racetrack (Churchill Downs) for 6 months when I was
>>> 19. What about you?
>>
>> I have been to the races. I don't bet directly on Papa Joe's Mortgage
>> Payment, but on the one in red, or number 3, as the case may be.
>
> If you don't research Papa Joe's Mortgage Payment's past performances
> (which are recorded by his name, not his color or number), then your
> bet is a sucker bet. The track take on each race's betting pool (the
I always bet on Beatle Bomb.
Lee "To finish." Ayrton
Lee Ayrton
>> Not that the song is NOT using the horse's names, but rather their
>> descriptions, "a bob-tail nag" and "the gray".
>
> Actually, "the bay", but who's keeping track?
No, What's keeping track, Who's at the gate, I Don't Know's mucking out
the stables.
Lee "You know all the jockies, right?" Ayrton
JC Dill
wrote:
>JC Dill <jcdi...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>there are four versions of "Camptown Races" at "Music for
>the Nation," but only one has words.
>and if it doesn't work, you could start at the beginning:
>http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/mussmquery.html
If I start at
<http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/mussmquery.html>
And search for "camptown" I get the 4 versions you note above. But
when I strip the url down to the root and start at:
it redirects to
<http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/>
and the resulting search for "camptown" produces 19 matches. The 4
versions found with the first search are the ones in the "sheet music"
category, but there are other versions in the "american singing",
"african american sheet music", and "historic american sheet music"
categories, as well as some hits for the word camptown in non-music
documents. 6 of these additional document matches are for various
lyric versions of Camptown Races, the others are for different songs
set to the same tune. Some of these additional documents have the
music, some are just song sheets.
>> I did a query on camptown, and the first hit was for "Camptown races a
>> favorite Ethiopian song" in the "African-American Sheet Music"
>> category. I wonder if the very different versions are due to
>> ethnic/regional variations. Some of the "de bay" versions have "bob
>> tail hoss" instead of nag, including several versions with the title
>> Bob Tail Nag, that don't contain the word "nag" anywhere in the
>> lyrics. So it seems that the accuracy of these many different
>> versions is dubious and that it's hard to tell which is the original
>> version as Foster penned it.
>
>It's known that Foster didn't write everything that bears his name. The
>minstrel-show era was the beginning of popular music as we know it, and
>exactly who wrote what (or who copyrighted an existing song) is very
>muddled. And probably not of great interest to this group. Whether
>there's any doubt about the provenance of "Camptown Races" would take
>some further research. But yes, even if it began by Foster publishing a
>single version, it would have been folk-processed immediately. These
>things spread mostly by word of mouth.
Please take a look at my 19 hits and tell me how you figure out which
version is the canonical Stephen Foster version.
>> I also found several versions with a "Du da, do da da" chorus line:
>>
>> <http://memory.loc.gov/learn/collections/amsing/langarts.html>
>>
>> <quote>
>> Camptown ladies, sing dis song,
>> Du da, du da.
>> Camptown race track five miles long,
>> Du da, du da da.
>> Go down dar wid my hat caved in,
>> Du da, du da.
>> Come back home wid pocket full ob tin,
>> Du da, du da da.
>> </quote>
>>
>> Which is very different from the "Oh! doo-dah-day" versions.
>
>You mean some variation in the "du da da" business? Because the rest of
>the words are those on the sheet music (tinyURL above, and choose
>Previous Page).
Yes. So how do you know which version was first? In this case, since
there's only one version that has "Du da, du da da" we might *assume*
that the other versions are correct about *this* aspect of the song,
but what if this was the version that Foster actually wrote? Given
all the different versions shown, I'm not sure that this historical
resource has "the answer" as to which one is the one Foster wrote.
jc
Donna Richoux
[snip]
> >>
> >> Which is very different from the "Oh! doo-dah-day" versions.
> >
> >You mean some variation in the "du da da" business? Because the rest of
> >the words are those on the sheet music (tinyURL above, and choose
> >Previous Page).
>
> Yes. So how do you know which version was first? In this case, since
> there's only one version that has "Du da, du da da" we might *assume*
> that the other versions are correct about *this* aspect of the song,
> but what if this was the version that Foster actually wrote? Given
> all the different versions shown, I'm not sure that this historical
> resource has "the answer" as to which one is the one Foster wrote.
I'm not sure where you're headed with this. I never said there was one
absolutely known-for-a-fact first publication, in fact I said "even if
it did... etc." I didn't care to find the absolute first, I just wanted
to find one that was early and official. It may be that the song started
in the minstrel community and was merely latched onto and published by
one man/company, and in that case there *wouldn't* have even been a
first. Like I said, this is muddled and it would take research, more
than I care to give.
But I went to the basic starting point you suggested,
<http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/>
put in "camptown races" and looked at the 16 hits it gave me. I noticed
three things.
(1) Practically nothing has a year on it, so anyone in search the
absolute first would have to keep looking for other evidence.
(2) About five of those hits were completely different sets of words set
to the Camptown Races tune, like:
ENGINE COMPANY NO. 41.
The gassing "Tigers" made their brag,
Du da, du da,
How they have whipp'd and run old Stag,
Du da, du da, day.
So you figure those are later. The odds of some completely other set of
words being the original to which the "Camptown Races" set came later is
theoretically possible but extremely unlikely.
(3) Seven out of the 16 results actually had the lyrics to "Camptown
Races" (not parodies, not instrumental arrangements). *All* seven had
"de bay". Nobody had "gray". I'm not sure if "bay` is still the point
you are hoping to settle, but to me it's settled. (Not that I mind songs
changing through the folk process. Not that it would do any good to
mind.)
--
Donna "camping it up" Richoux
TeaLady (Mari C.)
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:19:33 -0500, "ron saarna"
> <dukiesp...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>>> Not that the song is NOT using the horse's names, but
>>> rather their descriptions, "a bob-tail nag" and "the
>>> gray".
>>
>>Actually, "the bay", but who's keeping track?
>
> Google is:
>
> <http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&client
> =firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22my+money+o
> n+a+bob-tailed+nag%22+gray&btnG=Search>
>
> 107 hits
>
> <http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&client
> =firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22my+money+o
> n+a+bob-tailed+nag%22+bay&btnG=Search>
>
> 14 hits, but 2 of them have "somebody bet on the gray" in
> the lyrics, and just mention bay elsewhere on the page.
>
FWIW, and not to enter openly into the fray, I've always heard
it, and sung it, as "bet on the bay"
--
TeaLady (mari)
"I keep telling you, chew with your mouth closed!" Kell the
coach offers advice on keeping that elusive prey caught.
Billzz
news:Xns95CF908...@130.133.1.4...
> JC Dill <jcdi...@sonic.net> wrote in
> news:4tg6t014i44la589e...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:19:33 -0500, "ron saarna"
>> <dukiesp...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>> Not that the song is NOT using the horse's names, but
>>>> rather their descriptions, "a bob-tail nag" and "the
>>>> gray".
>>>
>>>Actually, "the bay", but who's keeping track?
>>
>> Google is:
>>
>> <http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&client
>> =firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22my+money+o
>> n+a+bob-tailed+nag%22+gray&btnG=Search>
>>
>> 107 hits
>>
>> <http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&client
>> =firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22my+money+o
>> n+a+bob-tailed+nag%22+bay&btnG=Search>
>>
>> 14 hits, but 2 of them have "somebody bet on the gray" in
>> the lyrics, and just mention bay elsewhere on the page.
>>
>
> FWIW, and not to enter openly into the fray, I've always heard
> it, and sung it, as "bet on the bay"
Also, FWIW, and hey, no bay-fray today, the same words are found in
"Stewball," the Peter,Paul,&Mary version.
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/~aparsons/guitar/guitar.py.cgi?song=Peter+Paul+and+Mary+-+Stewball
Bill"saving electrons today"
JC Dill
wrote:
>I'm not sure where you're headed with this. I never said there was one
>absolutely known-for-a-fact first publication, in fact I said "even if
>it did... etc." I didn't care to find the absolute first, I just wanted
>to find one that was early and official.
OK, fair enough. How do you choose which of these early versions you
will treat as "official"?
>(3) Seven out of the 16 results actually had the lyrics to "Camptown
>Races" (not parodies, not instrumental arrangements). *All* seven had
>"de bay". Nobody had "gray". I'm not sure if "bay` is still the point
>you are hoping to settle, but to me it's settled.
I agree about that point. I'm just quite surprised at all the
variations in these old versions, and was pointing out that just
finding one older version and treating it as the "official" version,
essentially saying "this is how it was first written", might not be
enough.
jc