The Warrens
DNileQueen
The all famed ghost hunters that travel the world. i have seen them
speak/seminars many times and really enjoy their presentations. The last time
I was so privied, was in 1993 in New Britain, CT. I was a familiar face to
them as i had often gone to hear them speak. Lorraine recognized me and
offered a warm greeting and a "how have you been"? I told her that i was just
getting ready to move into my 'grandfather's house' and was really tired from
all of the work i had been doing. The first thing she expressed, even before
congratulations, was the importance of having the house blessed before i moved
in and was very serious about this advice. (Good thought) I actually had two
different appointments with my minister to come bless the house. Both
appointments he cancelled due to this or that. i requested that he call me
when it was a good time for him. He never called so therefor the house was
never blessed. I just thought of that after all of my dilemas that I explained
earlier i probably should have pushed harder or found someone else to do the
blessing.
Has anyone had the pleasure of meeting the Warrens? They live in Monroe
Connecticut and have a museum attatched to their garage. it contains some
really messed up stuff that I would love to see, but certainly not by myself or
with non-believers. They also have night tours of the local graveyards to
photograph some very active sights. Once a year they travel to England with a
group of 18 (I think 18) to tour haunted castles. Lorraine invited me to come
along the last time I saw her in 1993, however, the cost of the trip was more
than i had.
I would love to hear stories about meetings/interactions with Ed and Lorraine
if anyone would like to share. Cleo
DNileQueen
>> Were they the couple that investigated the Amitiville haunting?
Yes! :) Cleo
DHawk0948
unexplained "transformation" -- not like the movies -- from family man to
raging "beast."
Doug
Lady Grey Wolf
There are a few case histories of such "Dual" personalities.
--
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_' Lady Grey Wolf
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DHawk0948 wrote in message <19990425133556...@ng146.aol.com>...
Stephen
the Amityville Horror has largely been proven to be a hoax perpetrated by
the Warrens and Mr. G. Lutz. Some people will always believe that A ville
was a true haunting, but like Eridc (Erik?) Von Daniken, they proved in the
A ville case to be masters of melodrama. Their Amityville book is almost
pure fiction.
--
Humbly,
Stephen
Porch Alchemist
Looking for ghost hunters in Jax, Fl
http://www.jacksonville.net/~park/spr.htm
"To love one's self is the beginning of a lifelong romance." -- Wilde
ICQ 36102673
DHawk0948 <dhaw...@aol.comDoug> wrote in message
news:19990425133556...@ng146.aol.com...
-= Hawk =-
scribbled:
>> Were they the couple that investigated the Amitiville haunting? or am I
>> completely on the wrong track...=/
They were, but they're also a couple of limelight seeking hacks, frauds,
con-artists, they like to sensationallize things.
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( This Space For Rent )
-= Hawk =-
>Most of you are probably familiar with Ed and Lorraine Warren from Connecticut.
> The all famed ghost hunters that travel the world.
Famed and ridiculed, they're hacks, and give paranormal investigators a bad
name.
>Has anyone had the pleasure of meeting the Warrens?
Not only have I seen them, I jump started their car when I worked for AAA
didn't know who they were then.
I saw their seminar probably 10 or 15 times since each time I mentioned
going someone else wou'd say they'd never gone and then I'd have to go
again. After the realized they could make MORE money charging incredible
prices for DINNER and ghost stories I gave up on them, then I saw they
were doing ghost boat trips on the CT river or some such nonsense, even the
folks from the CT parapsych investigation group laugh at them now.
Oh, yeah, every time I saw their show it was 99% the same as every other
time, they're too busy selling themselves to do any actual investigation.
>I would love to hear stories about meetings/interactions with Ed and Lorraine
>if anyone would like to share. Cleo
During the seminars Loraine (nice beehive hairdo, bet she's STILL wearing it
that way) always picks a sucker out of the audiance when Ed's doing his
ghost talk, and she pulls the 'I'm a medium' skit on them, she tried it two
years running on me.
r.p.m.
not!....not gonna doit, nope not me".
DHawk0948
gonna doit, nope not me".<<
Oh, go ahead, joke away.
affinity
> Were they the couple that investigated the Amitiville haunting? or am I
> completely on the wrong track...=/
Take Care
Siri*
--
::Give me ambiguity, or give me something else::
icq me: 3433910
LITTLEPJoo
It's nice that you've been able to meet and talk with them. There are a lot of
stories going around, however that they aren't as legit as we'd like them to
be. It's too bad though, it would be great to have someone as well known and as
seemingly "in the know" as they apperar to be, out there for us to visit.
PJ
Stephanie Rendino
-= Hawk =- wrote:>Has anyone had the pleasure of meeting the Warrens?
>
> Not only have I seen them, I jump started their car when I worked for AAA
> didn't know who they were then.
> I saw their seminar probably 10 or 15 times since each time I mentioned
> going someone else wou'd say they'd never gone and then I'd have to go
> again. After the realized they could make MORE money charging incredible
> prices for DINNER and ghost stories I gave up on them, then I saw they
> were doing ghost boat trips on the CT river or some such nonsense, even the
> folks from the CT parapsych investigation group laugh at them now.
> Oh, yeah, every time I saw their show it was 99% the same as every other
> time, they're too busy selling themselves to do any actual investigation.
I met the Warrens briefly at one of their ghost story lectures in probably 1980. It
was held at the Student Union at George Mason University. It was a creepshow, heavy
on their weird religious take on ghosts instead of responsible investigation. As
you may have picked up from them, they believe that ghost = demon. You never have
the shade of great-aunt Martha who died very suddenly of a stroke hanging about
because she's confused, or the psychic recording of a revolutionary soldier who was
the traumatized lone survivor of a massacre. Nope, it's always a demon to them. I
thought that was suspect.
Later a guy I knew talked to Ed while Lorraine was chatting with me. Ed actually
told the guy that parapsychology was a great way to make money. I guess I heard it
pretty early, although I didn't realize it would become an industry.
SWPSRG1
>bad
>name.
And Hawk pray tell what type of method of investigation do you. Surely not
scientific method. Is it possible to prove the existence of Ghosts and other
Paranormal Phenomenon with the method/s that you subscribe too.
I have been in the field of Paranormal & Supernatural Research for over 25
years and to date I have never, been able to say that the Phenomenon has any
reality to it. The best I have been able to do is gather date in hope that
maybe tomorrow, we have the tools needed to prove or disprove the things that
go bump in the night.
Stephen
Although you are a TROLL, I will respond to you anyway. Any researcher,
paranormal or otherwise, loses credibility whenever they fabricate data.
Everything they do, or will do in the future is suspect based upon their
deceit. At least Hawk shows some ability at critical thinking to be able to
compare and analyze data from more than one source. In the case of
Amityville, the Warrens did, in fact, fabricate data, and also drew
conclusions where there were not enough data. To my knowledge, the Warrens
never follow quantitative method conventions or qualitative method
conventions as prescribed by the field of psychology or parapsychology. I
have never seen their papers published in any respected journal in APA
format. The best description I can use for their work is tabloid
journalism.
You show an additional bit of ignorance by your statement regarding
scientific method. Scientific method could indicate any of a great number
of Modern methodologies and some Post-Modern methodologies. The scientific
method is merely a basic framework.
--
Humbly,
Stephen
Porch Alchemist
Looking for ghost hunters in Jax, Fl
http://www.jacksonville.net/~park/spr.htm
"Greetings Prince Edmond." "Hello, peasant." -- The Black Adder
ICQ 36102673
SWPSRG1 <swp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990426135932...@ng142.aol.com...
Lady Grey Wolf
Look.......I dream,eat,walk,talk,breath,and if I am lucky,I
sleep.........SWPSRG1....for those of us that do as I just said AND live the
"super naturale"........science cannot tell me it isn't here because they
can't prove it.....and when people start to make a game or a living without
trying to prove something of it......we are labeled freaks or strange or
demented or even retarded.........and I am quite frankly SICK OF IT.
When you get these power hungry people that exploite to the extent that the
validity of something not known or unexplained is laughed at and not even
considered anymore......we die.........because if what we have isn't here
then we don't exsist.Weather or not science or any other method has proven
or disproven something of the nature we are here to explore,it gives no
other the right to tell me or other's with gifts that we are not real
because there is no proof........just because a tree falls in the wood and
no one is there to hear it doesn't mean it didn't make a sound.
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r.p.m.
but I interpreted his criticism, not so much as a swipe at the methods
used, but rather, to the presentation. Just MHO. Let's see; SWPRG..is
that short for South West Paranormal Research Group? Just a wild
guess.
Patrick
SWPSRG1 wrote:
>
> >Famed and ridiculed, they're hacks, and give paranormal investigators a
> >bad
> >name.
>
allright
-= Hawk =- <hawk...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>They were, but they're also a couple of limelight seeking hacks, frauds,
>con-artists, they like to sensationallize things.
Well Hawk there are always two sides to every story. There are a lot of
people who believe the Warrens are people who believe in what they do. There
are also people who will tell you the Warrens helped them, for free. Last
time I looked making money was not a crime in the US. Your opinion of them
being "a couple of limelight seeking hacks, frauds, con-artists" is just
that, your opinion. Shared by some others, but all the same, an opinion.
This does not make it a fact. Since these people have not been convicted of
any crime, as far as I know anyway, to call them frauds and con-artists is a
bit strong, in my opinion. To be a seeker of the limelight & sensationallize
things is not a crime. If it were the entire Media/Entertainment Industry
would be in the can.
BTW Hawk save your breath with a blistering post telling me all about how
terrible and horrible the Warrens are. As you have your opinion of them, I
have mine. I just felt a different opinion needed to be heard also, that's
all. Nothing personal here.
...allright...
-= Hawk =-
scribbled:
>
>-= Hawk =- <hawk...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>Well Hawk there are always two sides to every story. There are a lot of
>people who believe the Warrens are people who believe in what they do. There
>are also people who will tell you the Warrens helped them, for free. Last
>time I looked making money was not a crime in the US.
See Stephens reply further on, and as far as I'm concerned once you've been
shown to be a fraud in this field you have no credibility (re: Amityville).
>BTW Hawk save your breath with a blistering post telling me all about how
>terrible and horrible the Warrens are. As you have your opinion of them, I
>have mine. I just felt a different opinion needed to be heard also, that's
>all. Nothing personal here.
Hey thanks for pre-judging me, I appreciate it...
r.p.m.
-= Hawk =- wrote:
>
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> ====UU====UU====
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> ''``
> ( This Space For Rent )
Hawk, I'd like to rent your space for a day or two...send me the bill,
ok? I'll get the check right out to you.
LOST: Isis the WonderCat
Approx'ly 8 feet long, 5 feet tall, black and white with white
footpads. Picture can be seen at http://www.zenweb.com/pan/rayn/rpm
Your reward with be her not eating you
Thanks to all who've sent the kind messages..hopefully she's just out
teasing the area males (after all, she IS fixed) and will return soon.
Can you put a LoJax on a cat?
Patrick
Hope to be owned again by Isis the WonderCat <sniff sniff>
ray...@my-dejanews.com
repeating myself, I felt the urge to do it again here, with more details. You
asked for Warren stories ... well, I've got one. Please don't take this as a
personal attack, because it's not, really. Neither is it an opinion. This
really happened. I'm going to tell you what I *think* of the Warrens, but
first I'm going to tell you what I *know* of the Warrens.
I wrote IN A DARK PLACE: THE STORY OF A TRUE HAUNTING, in which a family had
lived in a house that used to be a mortuary (allegedly...I never saw the
inside of the house myself), which was, according to the Warrens, infested
with demons. But the family involved, which was going through some serious
problems like alcoholism and drug addiction, could *not* keep their story
straight, and I became very frustrated; it's hard writing a non-fiction book
when all the people involved are telling you different stories. So I went to
Ed Warren and told him my problem. He told me not to worry, that the family
was "crazy". I was shocked. He said, "All the people who come to us are
crazy. You think *sane* people would come to us?" He knew I'd written a lot
of horror novels prior to that, so he told me to just make the story up using
whatever details I could incorporate into the book, and make it scary.
Because I couldn't afford the attorney fees it would take to get out of the
contract, I had to go through with the book, but I didn't like it. Since
then, other writers who have worked with the Warrens have told me the EXACT
SAME STORY, but they've done so quietly because they don't want to make any
waves with publishers.
I spent several days with the Warrens during that time. I spent time with
them in their home and ate with them and went on long drives with them. Of
the two, Lorraine is the sanest. She's an "enabler". Years ago, before
their career in the "supernatural" began, Ed suffered from mental illness.
It was bad enough to keep him from working, and the only way he could make
money was to hand paint haunted houses on dinnerplates and sell them door to
door. Once Ed decided that Lorraine was "psychic", selling the haunted house
plates eventually led to "investigating" haunted houses. At first, they
found "ghosts". But after the tremendous success of THE EXORCIST -- both the
novel and the movie -- ghosts suddenly became demons. If you go back and
trace their career, you can see the sudden change. Almost overnight, all
ghosts were really demons trying to possess residents, and sooner or later,
the demons anally raped someone. It never fails, every damned time, the
Warrens' demons bend somebody over a bed or a sink and beat down the back
door, if you know what I mean. From my time spent with the Warrens, I
learned from Ed that their job is not really to "investigate" so much as it
is to take the stories told by these families -- most of whom are dealing
with REAL problems like alcoholism, drug addiction, mental illness, and/or
domestic abuse, problems that are buried by their supernatural fantasies,
which are supported and made tangible by the very eager Warrens -- and
arrange them into a saleable package that will make a good book, and
hopefully a movie.
Not only are the Warrens frauds, not only do they give a bad name to people
who are SERIOUSLY investigating paranormal phenomena, I think they're EVIL
because of the way they exploit families already deep in despair and ready to
shatter. I can ignore a simple con job ... but the Warrens are actually
damaging people who are already damaged, who are desperate and vulnerable,
using them for the sake of a book, maybe a lucrative movie sale, or another
story to add to their traveling dog and pony show. Before I worked on that
book, I'd followed the adventures of Ed and Lorraine Warren faithfully since
I was a little boy. I was excited to work with them. Boy, was that a big
disappointment. It's nice to believe there's a smiling, grandparently couple
out there chasing demons ... but not when you know they're hurting people for
the sake of publicity and the almighty dollar.
Ray Garton
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
DHawk0948
who are SERIOUSLY investigating paranormal phenomena, I think they're EVIL
because of the way they exploit families already deep in despair and ready to
shatter. I can ignore a simple con job ... but the Warrens are actually
damaging people who are already damaged, who are desperate and vulnerable,
using them for the sake of a book, maybe a lucrative movie sale, or another
story to add to their traveling dog and pony show.<<
Ray, that truly chilling. I've only read one of their books, and while I found
it cheesy, I assumed they were on the up and up. I'll have to look through it
again. And to be sure, exploiting people at their most vulnerable is the style
of the tabloid journalist, not the serious investigator.
Doug
-= Hawk =-
scribbled:
>LOST: Isis the WonderCat
>Approx'ly 8 feet long, 5 feet tall, black and white with white
>footpads. Picture can be seen at http://www.zenweb.com/pan/rayn/rpm
>Your reward with be her not eating you
Done!
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'//||\\` http://home.mindspring.com/~hawkster
''``
(LOST: Isis the WonderCat:
Approx'ly 8 feet long, 5 feet tall, black and
white with white footpads. Picture can be seen
at: http://www.zenweb.com/pan/rayn/rpm
Your reward with be her not eating you )
Allright
If you say this is your experience with the Warrens then I will accept
that it looks like they are in fact not very nice people after all.
"so he told me to just make the story up using
whatever details I could incorporate into the book, and make it scary.
Because I couldn't afford the attorney fees it would take to get out of the
contract, I had to go through with the book, but I didn't like it."
The above quoted text taken from your post also tells me what kind
of a person you are. Pretty weak excuse for turning yourself in the very
sort of person you claim the Warrens are. I'll bet you just hated spending
that money they paid you too huh?
allright
Allright
-= Hawk =- wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:00:25 -0400, "allright" <allrig...@hotmail.com>
> scribbled:
>
> See Stephens reply further on, and as far as I'm concerned once you've been
> shown to be a fraud in this field you have no credibility (re: Amityville).
Kind of like telling an untruth under oath huh?
My server shows no post from Stephens further on.
Could someone re-post it?
>
>
>
> Hey thanks for pre-judging me, I appreciate it...
>
>
By posting my opinion I'm pre-judging you? ...oh boy...
Did you not read the part where I said "nothing personal" Hawk?
Can no one have an opinion different than yours Hawk?
...allright...
-= Hawk =-
>The above quoted text taken from your post also tells me what kind
>of a person you are. Pretty weak excuse for turning yourself in the very
>sort of person you claim the Warrens are. I'll bet you just hated spending
>that money they paid you too huh?
How nice.... so who's next on the 'can't live up to your standards' list, to
get attacked.
Personally I thought it took quite a bit of courage to come clean and tell
the truth.
Stormy
wankers. why do you think they are such popular wankers? because you
continue to talk about them. if you'd forget the warrens existed (like they
all ready didn't in my world) no one would care....we would all be happy and
sing peter paul and mary songs! so i suggest everyone shut up about this.
i'm tired of hearing about all this fighting and the "you are a nerd." "no
you are" type of crap. do i get in all these fights? no sir. cos it's
annoying for other people to read.
look on one side, at least he is telling us so none of us make the mistake.
he's trying to help. now lets all let the warrens be wankers off in lala
land.
`stormy
porch crayola girl and mxpx fan
http://members.tripod.com/~Princess_S
Allright wrote in message <37253A3A...@sccoast.net>...
>Ray Garton,
>
>If you say this is your experience with the Warrens then I will accept
>that it looks like they are in fact not very nice people after all.
>
>"so he told me to just make the story up using
>whatever details I could incorporate into the book, and make it scary.
>Because I couldn't afford the attorney fees it would take to get out of the
>contract, I had to go through with the book, but I didn't like it."
>
>The above quoted text taken from your post also tells me what kind
>of a person you are. Pretty weak excuse for turning yourself in the very
>sort of person you claim the Warrens are. I'll bet you just hated spending
>that money they paid you too huh?
>
>allright
Stormy
but let's just stop this right now. please? i'm begging with all kinds of
nice stuff on top.
`stormy
porch crayola girl and mxpx fan
-= Hawk =- wrote in message <372b419a...@nntp.mindspring.com>...
>On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:16:59 -0400, Allright <o...@sccoast.net> scribbled:
>
>>The above quoted text taken from your post also tells me what kind
>>of a person you are. Pretty weak excuse for turning yourself in the very
>>sort of person you claim the Warrens are. I'll bet you just hated spending
>>that money they paid you too huh?
>
Stephen
fanatics, the warrens:
Stephen <pa...@jacksonville.net> wrote in message:
-= Hawk =-
>By posting my opinion I'm pre-judging you? ...oh boy...
No, by telling me to save my breath yadda yadda whatever you were assuming
I'd flame you for your post.
>Did you not read the part where I said "nothing personal" Hawk?
>Can no one have an opinion different than yours Hawk?
Sure ya can, never said you couldn't
-= Hawk =-
>oh everyone should just get off of it and stop talking about people that are
>wankers. why do you think they are such popular wankers? because you
>continue to talk about them. if you'd forget the warrens existed (like they
>all ready didn't in my world) no one would care....we would all be happy and
>sing peter paul and mary songs!
Puff the magic dragon lived by the sea.....
ray...@my-dejanews.com
> The above quoted text taken from your post also tells me what kind
> of a person you are. Pretty weak excuse for turning yourself in the very
> sort of person you claim the Warrens are. I'll bet you just hated spending
> that money they paid you too huh?
Okay, let me explain what I was up against, because it's clear you're not
familiar with publishing contracts. I signed the contract some time before I
met the Warrens. I TRIED to get out of writing the book as soon as Ed showed
me their true colors. My editor did not want to hear what I had to say about
the authenticity of the book they were publishing. She didn't even let me
*finish* telling her of my experience with the Warrens. When I told her I
refused to write the book if they were going to publish it as "non-fiction",
she told me fine, in that case, they would not pay me my cut of the advance
($15,000 in three payments, the rest of the $75,000 was to go to the Warrens
and the family, with the greater portion going to Ed and Lorraine, and I
hadn't been paid yet), and they would sue me for breach of contract. Like
most people, Allright, you probably equate being a published writer with
being wealthy. That's not the case. The only writers who are rich from
their writing are the biggies like, for example, Stephen King, Tom Clancy,
John Grisham, among a few others. It's very different for most other
writers, like me. In fact, the next time you go into a bookstore, chances
are very, very good that the books on those shelves (with the exception of
the bestseller shelf) are written by people who make even less money than you
and most of the other customers in the store (especially if you happen to be
wealthy). My wife was unemployed at the time, and I was the only one
bringing in money. Such a law suit from a major New York publisher would
have wiped us out; hell, we couldn't even afford the legal fees. Now, if YOU
would have gone ahead and let the publisher sue YOU if you were in that
situation, then God bless you, you're a bigger person than I ... or at least,
a person who is more willing to live in a refrigerator box behind a liquor
store. But it just wasn't possible for us. Some of that money went to
charity (a regular practice of ours) and we lived on the rest of it. And I
immediately began telling everyone I possibly could about my experience. I
talked about it on radio talk shows and brought it up in interviews.
So don't tell me I'm the same kind of person the Warrens are. That's way out
of line. I did the only thing I could do in a shitty situation. I don't know
you anymore than you know me, but just judging from your post, I think less
coffee and a nap are in order.
Lady Willow
principles, but they don't get between me and my next meal thought.... Of course
that's my opinion... when one has a full mouth it's hard to realize things we have
to do sometimes to survive.
"It's only 25$ that's nothing come and play with us"
"huh.. 25$ is my grocery for 2 weeks and more....for the 2 of us, both cats both
bunnies and the rat "
shesh one day I'll be rich...
Don't think bad of Allright thought.. he's like me a bit impulsive.... guess he'll
think things over and realized he put his foot in his mouth this time won't you
old man ?? he's a good guy... just not too young anymore you know how that goes..
heheheh
Will~ who's already hearing the "plonk" it will do when Allright slam her in the
wall... I'm just a little girl... pleaaaaase *grin*
ray...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Ray Garton
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
--
Luv & hugs
Willow
"Darken wood?" Caramon repeated in alarm. "No, Tanis!"
The warrior shook his head. "I'll fight the living any
day of the week-but not the dead!"
(Dragonlance, Chronicles, book 1, p. 70)
ICQ me ! I lost my list ! 4370897
r.p.m.
ray...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > The above quoted text taken from your post also tells me what kind
> > of a person you are. Pretty weak excuse for turning yourself in the very
> > sort of person you claim the Warrens are. I'll bet you just hated spending
> > that money they paid you too huh?
>
> Okay, let me explain what I was up against, because it's clear you're not
> familiar with publishing contracts. I signed the contract some time before I
> met the Warrens.
<<Major litigious Snippage>>>
>
> Ray Garton
>
Just my opinion Ray, but if I'd been in the situation you describe, I
would have done the very same thing. Nuff said.
Patrick
Stephanie Rendino
-= Hawk =- wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:00:25 -0400, "allright" <allrig...@hotmail.com>
> scribbled:
>
> >
> >-= Hawk =- <hawk...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> >Well Hawk there are always two sides to every story. There are a lot of
> >people who believe the Warrens are people who believe in what they do. There
> >are also people who will tell you the Warrens helped them, for free. Last
> >time I looked making money was not a crime in the US.
>
> See Stephens reply further on, and as far as I'm concerned once you've been
> shown to be a fraud in this field you have no credibility (re: Amityville).
Stephens....I think you mean me, but I'm a Steph (as in Stephanie) not a Stephen.
:)
Stephanie Rendino
Allright wrote:
> -= Hawk =- wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:00:25 -0400, "allright" <allrig...@hotmail.com>
> > scribbled:
> >
> > See Stephens reply further on, and as far as I'm concerned once you've been
> > shown to be a fraud in this field you have no credibility (re: Amityville).
>
> Kind of like telling an untruth under oath huh?
> My server shows no post from Stephens further on.
> Could someone re-post it?
I think Hawk meant me. The Warrens were at George Mason University in the early
80s, no later than 1982. I was at their lecture, and afterwards a couple of my
friends and I were talking to them at the front of the hall. Ed told a friend
who was with me that ghost hunting was a great way to make money. My friend was
very disturbed by this.
Stephanie Rendino
ray...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > The above quoted text taken from your post also tells me what kind
> > of a person you are. Pretty weak excuse for turning yourself in the very
> > sort of person you claim the Warrens are. I'll bet you just hated spending
> > that money they paid you too huh?
>
> Okay, let me explain what I was up against, because it's clear you're not
> familiar with publishing contracts.
Whoa! Your advance was 15K? I know that's a feeble year's income, but gee, my
friends who are writers make only 5K. I'm likely becoming a writer on religion
and figure there's a lot of Kraft Dinner in my future. Writers deserve better
than this.
Lady Grey Wolf
Good to have you back Hawkster.
--
---
/ \ _-'
_/| \-''- _ /
__-' { | \
/ \
/ "o. |o }
| \ ;
',
\_ __\
''-_ \.//
/ '-____'
/
_' Lady Grey Wolf.....aka>Porch(?)
_-'
-= Hawk =- wrote in message <372f4d57...@nntp.mindspring.com>...
>On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:48:06 GMT, "Stormy" <stor...@flash.net> scribbled:
>
>>oh everyone should just get off of it and stop talking about people that
are
>>wankers. why do you think they are such popular wankers? because you
>>continue to talk about them. if you'd forget the warrens existed (like
they
>>all ready didn't in my world) no one would care....we would all be happy
and
>>sing peter paul and mary songs!
>
>
-= Hawk =-
scribbled:
>Stephens....I think you mean me, but I'm a Steph (as in Stephanie) not a Stephen.
>:)
And so you are! my apologies dear lady..
Stephen
posted to this thread Stephanie.
"To love one's self is the beginning of a lifelong romance." -- Wilde
ICQ 36102673
Stephanie Rendino <be...@openface.com> wrote in message
news:3725A558...@openface.com...
>
>
> -= Hawk =- wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:00:25 -0400, "allright"
<allrig...@hotmail.com>
> > scribbled:
> >
> > >
> > >-= Hawk =- <hawk...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > >Well Hawk there are always two sides to every story. There are a lot of
> > >people who believe the Warrens are people who believe in what they do.
There
> > >are also people who will tell you the Warrens helped them, for free.
Last
> > >time I looked making money was not a crime in the US.
> >
> > See Stephens reply further on, and as far as I'm concerned once you've
been
> > shown to be a fraud in this field you have no credibility (re:
Amityville).
>
r.p.m.
Jynxx5309 wrote:
>
> >Puff the magic dragon lived by the sea.....
>
> ....And froliced in the autumn mists in a land called
> Honolee....................
>
>....Little poster Haawwwk, sure loved that Magic Puff....
Oh My GAWD! Jynnxx! I just saw that addy below and it's SCARY!!
ARRRGGHHH!:)
>
> PS: Are grown men allowed to use the word "frolic" in polite conversation
> :::::::looks vexed:::::::::
>
> _..--.._
> / _ _ \
> I (IIII) (IIII) I
> \ _ /::\ _ /
> I{}{}{}{}I
> \{}{}{}/
> 8- --- -8
> " "
> JYNXX
> 8-" "-8
> "I Drank What.....?"
> -Socrates
r.p.m.
Either drop it or take it to email you guys, this is getting personal,
ok? Thank you in advance.
ControlB wrote:
>
> >Any researcher,
> >> paranormal or otherwise, loses credibility whenever they fabricate data
>
> I understand now Stephen, you have a method that proves or disproves the data
> on Paranormal & Supernatural phenomenon. This is why you know beyond a doubt,
> that the data that the Warrens had, has been fabricated.
>
> I would like to read the research studies or even the physical evidents, that
> prove your alleged point of view. I certainly hope this was not hear say
> information. And by the way do you find it satisfying to wage personal attacks
> on others. It was very disappointing for me when I noted that the best you
> could come up with was Troll. After such a display of impressive scientific
> jargon. Do I see shadows of inadequacy in your make up?
>
> Brought about by low self-esteem and involving Infantile Personality or
> possibly Borderline Personality Disorder. It is obvious that you (think) you
> are above all the rest of us Trolls and whacked out religious fanatics
> (Grandiose cogitate patterns Stephen)
> Finney
Jynxx5309
....And froliced in the autumn mists in a land called
Honolee....................
:::::misty with nostalgia::::
ControlB
-= Hawk =-
>>Any researcher,
>>> paranormal or otherwise, loses credibility whenever they fabricate data
>
> I understand now Stephen, you have a method that proves or disproves the data
>on Paranormal & Supernatural phenomenon. This is why you know beyond a doubt,
>that the data that the Warrens had, has been fabricated.
Perhaps you missed the posts by Ray Garton?
---
.---. .-----------
/ \ __ / ------
/ / \(,,)/ -----
////// ' \/ ` ---
//// / // : : ---
// / / /` '-- -= /-//-\\/\/]< =-
// //..\\ hawk...@mindspring.com
====UU====UU====
'//||\\` http://home.mindspring.com/~hawkster
''``
-= Hawk =-
scribbled:
>PS: Are grown men allowed to use the word "frolic" in polite conversation
I'm a grown man and *I* admit to frolicing!
Frolicers of the world stand up and be noticed....
Stormy
`stormy
porch crayola girl and mxpx fan
http://members.tripod.com/~Princess_S - you -can- sign the guestbook.
r.p.m. wrote in message <3726A389...@castles.com>...
Enchanting Angel
their other crap they have "produced".....but i do know of a Lady nearby
where i live who had a nephew who rigged her house to make the older lady
think she was going crazy. Thanks to the Warrens and the nephew the old
Lady ended up being commited to a mental hospital on grounds of "psychotic
dillusions"... the Warrnes AND the nephew both are now in the process of
being sued by one on the Old Lady's great neices for having her wrongfully
comitted! In thhis case the Warrens were frauds!
--
=============================
The Tiger lives in a world of sunlight and shadow
Always secretive--Never devious
Always a killer--Never a murderer
Solitary--Never alone
For it is an irreplaceable link
In the process and the wholeness of life."
-John Seidensticker
===============================
ControlB wrote in message <19990428010436...@ng125.aol.com>...
>>Any researcher,
>>> paranormal or otherwise, loses credibility whenever they fabricate data
>
> I understand now Stephen, you have a method that proves or disproves the
data
>on Paranormal & Supernatural phenomenon. This is why you know beyond a
doubt,
>that the data that the Warrens had, has been fabricated.
>
Stephen
Your pitiful response shows me your complete lack of understanding of the
field of parapsychology or any academic discipline for that matter. There
are few such things as facts in any field. I apologize if you if you feel I
said I have some new method of proof in the field of parapsychology. I
thought I was simply referring to data as related qualitative and/or
quantitative controls in a research studies. Let me know when you can prove
your existence.
Honestly, considering your obvious bias, I doubt it when you say you would
like to read the studies or physical evidence although available. You
obviously have some innate need to believe in demons in order to justify
your religious beliefs. The following link is a good start since you have
demonstrated you can use a browser. Do not stop there, continue to read
criticisms from other sources as well until you have enough data to make a
conclusion. That is, if they have a library in Fantasy Land.
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Lounge/7036/Amityville.html
BTW, Please do not email me again. I found it interesting that you stepped
up the tempo of your feeble attack in the newsgroup, but made more
grammatical errors.
Yes, you found me out. I am above trolls and wackos like yourself.
--
Humbly,
Stephen
Porch Alchemist
Looking for ghost hunters in Jax, Fl
http://www.jacksonville.net/~park/spr.htm
"To love one's self is the beginning of a lifelong romance." -- Wilde
ICQ 36102673
<snipped with impunity>
ControlB
> I understand now Stephen, you have a method that proves or disproves the
data
> on Paranormal & Supernatural phenomenon.
<snipped with impunity>
Samantha Perry
money out of writing? LOL.. I wish... really I do.. it's a sad world for us
creative types....
--
sam
Porch Cheerleader and member of the Porch Spanking Squad
s...@removeavspecialist.co.za
www.avspecialist.co.za
~Be yourself, no-one can ever tell you you're doing it wrong - James Leo
Herlihy~
Stephanie Rendino wrote in message <3725A7DB...@openface.com>...
SWPSRG1
>delusions."
The court must have believed the testimony of the psychologists. The Warrens
testimony and that of her nephew would not be admissible, because it is
unproved. If they testified to the a conclusion that the ghost or what every
the phenomenon was truly present.
That is one of the biggest fallacy about doing research in the Paranormal, to
make a statement of fact, when no prove / evidence of fact present.
SWPSRG1
But the fact still remains can you prove your data without the appropriate
means.
If someone even the Warrens, make a statement about the existence of Paranormal
Phenomenon. Without the (benefit) of physical evidence and you accept the
statement as being a statement of fact, then you have made a commitment to the
validity of that statement. In doing so you have also fabricated data, because
you cannot prove your statement.
The Best we as researchers can do when we are involved in researching
Paranormal activity is to GATHER, RECORDED and STORE the data.
We cannot make a rational analysis of the data because there is no prove that
the data even has any validity. So what I say is just as valid as what you say
or what the Warren's
say. You cannot fabricate what does not exist, unless you believe in the
existence of the activity in your own reality. But that reality would be flawed
because it is based on nothingness and of course you can't prove nothing
without evidence to prove something does exist. If you believe in things you
don't understand its called superstition!
The best that can be done is to Gather, Record and Store.
Analysis at this time would not be fruitful
.
Rifle15
frolic as much as you like!
>>Puff the magic dragon lived by the sea.....
>
>....And froliced in the autumn mists in a land called
>Honolee....................
>
:(that's my baby boy's favorite song)
>
>
>PS: Are grown men allowed to use the word "frolic" in polite conversation
> :::::::looks vexed:::::::::
>
Kermit the Green Knight
**ZAP**, I got a bug!!
lorie
" You cannot fabricate what does not exist......", Yes you most certainly
can , its called making up info that does not exist or in easier terms
LIEING. Whether you believe or not doesn't matter. If it is not true, then
it didn't happen its as simple as that.
porch barmaid,
lorie
SWPSRG1 wrote in message <19990428113727...@ng39.aol.com>...
Kali
"legitimate researchers". :-)
On Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:38:12 -0400, "Stephen" <pa...@jacksonville.net>
wrote:
>I believe at one time the warrens were legitimate people. Unfortunately,
>the Amityville Horror has largely been proven to be a hoax perpetrated by
>the Warrens and Mr. G. Lutz. Some people will always believe that A ville
>was a true haunting, but like Eridc (Erik?) Von Daniken, they proved in the
>A ville case to be masters of melodrama. Their Amityville book is almost
>pure fiction.
Kali
contracts, and usually the penalty for breaking one is not just
refunding the advance money.
There's no need to take jabs at everyone.
Kali
On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:16:59 -0400, Allright <o...@sccoast.net> wrote:
>Ray Garton,
>
>If you say this is your experience with the Warrens then I will accept
>that it looks like they are in fact not very nice people after all.
>
>"so he told me to just make the story up using
>whatever details I could incorporate into the book, and make it scary.
>Because I couldn't afford the attorney fees it would take to get out of the
>contract, I had to go through with the book, but I didn't like it."
>
>The above quoted text taken from your post also tells me what kind
>of a person you are. Pretty weak excuse for turning yourself in the very
>sort of person you claim the Warrens are. I'll bet you just hated spending
>that money they paid you too huh?
>
>allright
>
>
>ray...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>> I've posted about the Warrens in another thread, Cleo, but at the risk of
>> repeating myself, I felt the urge to do it again here, with more details. You
>> asked for Warren stories ... well, I've got one. Please don't take this as a
>> personal attack, because it's not, really. Neither is it an opinion. This
>> really happened. I'm going to tell you what I *think* of the Warrens, but
>> first I'm going to tell you what I *know* of the Warrens.
>>
>> I wrote IN A DARK PLACE: THE STORY OF A TRUE HAUNTING, in which a family had
>> lived in a house that used to be a mortuary (allegedly...I never saw the
>> inside of the house myself), which was, according to the Warrens, infested
>> with demons. But the family involved, which was going through some serious
>> problems like alcoholism and drug addiction, could *not* keep their story
>> straight, and I became very frustrated; it's hard writing a non-fiction book
>> when all the people involved are telling you different stories. So I went to
>> Ed Warren and told him my problem. He told me not to worry, that the family
>> was "crazy". I was shocked. He said, "All the people who come to us are
>> crazy. You think *sane* people would come to us?" He knew I'd written a lot
>> of horror novels prior to that, so he told me to just make the story up using
>> whatever details I could incorporate into the book, and make it scary.
>> Because I couldn't afford the attorney fees it would take to get out of the
>> contract, I had to go through with the book, but I didn't like it. Since
>> then, other writers who have worked with the Warrens have told me the EXACT
>> SAME STORY, but they've done so quietly because they don't want to make any
>> waves with publishers.
>>
>> I spent several days with the Warrens during that time. I spent time with
>> them in their home and ate with them and went on long drives with them. Of
>> the two, Lorraine is the sanest. She's an "enabler". Years ago, before
>> their career in the "supernatural" began, Ed suffered from mental illness.
>> It was bad enough to keep him from working, and the only way he could make
>> money was to hand paint haunted houses on dinnerplates and sell them door to
>> door. Once Ed decided that Lorraine was "psychic", selling the haunted house
>> plates eventually led to "investigating" haunted houses. At first, they
>> found "ghosts". But after the tremendous success of THE EXORCIST -- both the
>> novel and the movie -- ghosts suddenly became demons. If you go back and
>> trace their career, you can see the sudden change. Almost overnight, all
>> ghosts were really demons trying to possess residents, and sooner or later,
>> the demons anally raped someone. It never fails, every damned time, the
>> Warrens' demons bend somebody over a bed or a sink and beat down the back
>> door, if you know what I mean. From my time spent with the Warrens, I
>> learned from Ed that their job is not really to "investigate" so much as it
>> is to take the stories told by these families -- most of whom are dealing
>> with REAL problems like alcoholism, drug addiction, mental illness, and/or
>> domestic abuse, problems that are buried by their supernatural fantasies,
>> which are supported and made tangible by the very eager Warrens -- and
>> arrange them into a saleable package that will make a good book, and
>> hopefully a movie.
>>
>> Not only are the Warrens frauds, not only do they give a bad name to people
>> who are SERIOUSLY investigating paranormal phenomena, I think they're EVIL
>> because of the way they exploit families already deep in despair and ready to
>> shatter. I can ignore a simple con job ... but the Warrens are actually
>> damaging people who are already damaged, who are desperate and vulnerable,
>> using them for the sake of a book, maybe a lucrative movie sale, or another
>> story to add to their traveling dog and pony show. Before I worked on that
>> book, I'd followed the adventures of Ed and Lorraine Warren faithfully since
>> I was a little boy. I was excited to work with them. Boy, was that a big
>> disappointment. It's nice to believe there's a smiling, grandparently couple
>> out there chasing demons ... but not when you know they're hurting people for
>> the sake of publicity and the almighty dollar.
Kali
I don't think you owe this person an explanation. This is the second
post in a list of 30 where s/he has taken a potshot at another poster
(the other that I saw was Hawk). I don't think you did anything
wrong, authors get jerked around like that all the time. :-(
K
On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:11:38 GMT, ray...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>> The above quoted text taken from your post also tells me what kind
>> of a person you are. Pretty weak excuse for turning yourself in the very
>> sort of person you claim the Warrens are. I'll bet you just hated spending
>> that money they paid you too huh?
>
>Okay, let me explain what I was up against, because it's clear you're not
>familiar with publishing contracts. I signed the contract some time before I
Stephen
fertilizer; breath in 20.7% oxygen and breath out 16% Oxygen and 5% Carbon
Dioxide; take up space legitimate. Correct?
Definitely not researchers. Demonologists! Indeed!
--
Humbly,
Stephen
Porch Alchemist
Looking for ghost hunters in Jax, Fl
http://www.jacksonville.net/~park/spr.htm
"To love one's self is the beginning of a lifelong romance." -- Wilde
ICQ 36102673
news:37276ec4...@news.tamu.edu...
Kali
K
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:08:05 GMT, hawk...@mindspring.com (-= Hawk =-)
wrote:
>On 28 Apr 1999 03:05:19 GMT, jynx...@aol.comPhhhbbbt (Jynxx5309)
>scribbled:
>
>>PS: Are grown men allowed to use the word "frolic" in polite conversation
>
Stephen
about research, the more obvious the lack of knowledge of research
methodologies.
See specific responses below:
--
Humbly,
Stephen
Porch Alchemist
Looking for ghost hunters in Jax, Fl
http://www.jacksonville.net/~park/spr.htm
"To love one's self is the beginning of a lifelong romance." -- Wilde
ICQ 36102673
SWPSRG1 <swp...@aol.com> wrote in message
<snip>
> But the fact still remains can you prove your data without the appropriate
> means.
No such thing in research. Data cannot be "proven." Data are only
collected by prescribed methods and said methods must also be reported.
More below.
>
> If someone even the Warrens, make a statement about the existence of
>Paranormal Phenomenon. Without the (benefit) of physical evidence and you
>accept the statement as being a statement of fact, then you have made a
>commitment to the validity of that statement. In doing so you have also
>fabricated data, because you cannot prove your statement.
Lack of physical evidence is a problem, however, that is where qualitative
methods come in to play. Qualitative methods are used and have been used
and accepted for many years in the Fields of Anthropology, Sociology,
Education, Parapsychology, and Psychology to name a few.
> The Best we as researchers can do when we are involved in researching
> Paranormal activity is to GATHER, RECORDED and STORE the data.
No, we can analyze those data, once sufficient data are gathered.
> We cannot make a rational analysis of the data because there is no prove
that
> the data even has any validity. So what I say is just as valid as what you
say
> or what the Warren's say. You cannot fabricate what does not exist, unless
you believe in the existence of the activity in your own reality. But that
reality would be flawed because it is based on nothingness and of course you
can't prove nothing
> without evidence to prove something does exist. If you believe in things
you
> don't understand its called superstition!
>
> The best that can be done is to Gather, Record and Store.
>
> Analysis at this time would not be fruitful
Once again, see what I wrote in the above comments. Analysis is appropriate
once sufficient data are gathered. Analysis must be explained as well.
If you really want to learn about qualitative research, there are numerous
books describing the proper research design and methodologies to be
followed. Check Amazon.com
Dragonmama
: On 28 Apr 1999 03:05:19 GMT, jynx...@aol.comPhhhbbbt (Jynxx5309)
: scribbled:
: >PS: Are grown men allowed to use the word "frolic" in polite conversation
: I'm a grown man and *I* admit to frolicing!
: Frolicers of the world stand up and be noticed....
Well, all the grownup real men I know frolic at the drop of a hat. They
all seem to want to be the one chosen to hold up the Maypole, for some
reason. Even my over-the-hill SO. I consider non-frolicking men boring,
m'self....
Dragonmama, who is not dead, quite yet!
--
Stephen
ControlB <cont...@aol.comFinney> wrote in message
<snip>
It was very disappointing for me when I noted that the best you
> could come up with was Troll. After such a display of impressive
scientific
> jargon. Do I see shadows of inadequacy in your make up?
>
> Brought about by low self-esteem and involving Infantile Personality or
> possibly Borderline Personality Disorder. It is obvious that you (think)
you
> are above all the rest of us Trolls and whacked out religious fanatics
> (Grandiose cogitate patterns Stephen)
> Finney
I am surprised that someone with such an obvious lack of knowledge in the
social sciences would come off with that cream puff. Borderline Personality
Disorder indeed! Is that what your doctor said over the phone as she was
ordering up your prescription? Stupid, inadequate me was under the
assumption that most of you religious fanatics were like our poor brother
Patrick (love ya Pat). Perhaps it was what you studied last week in PSY 101
at Mud Duck Community College Bar & Grill. Grandiose cogitate patterns to
you too ending with middle finger extending skyward, Troll!
Disclaimer: There is a difference between a devout person and the fanatic.
Stephen
Porch Alchemist
Now improved with BPD!! (Borderline Personality Disorder)
Lady Grey Wolf
Hawkster~
--
---
/ \ _-'
_/| \-''- _ /
__-' { | \
/ \
/ "o. |o }
| \ ;
',
\_ __\
''-_ \.//
/ '-____'
/
_' Lady Grey Wolf
_-'
Kali wrote in message <37277e24...@news.tamu.edu>...
-= Hawk =-
scribbled:
>Well, all the grownup real men I know frolic at the drop of a hat. They
>all seem to want to be the one chosen to hold up the Maypole, for some
>reason. Even my over-the-hill SO. I consider non-frolicking men boring,
>m'self....
heh heh heh you said pole.....
---
.---. .-----------
/ \ __ / ------
/ / \(,,)/ -----
////// ' \/ ` ---
//// / // : : ---
// / / /` '-- -= /-//-\\/\/]< =-
// //..\\ hawk...@mindspring.com
====UU====UU====
'//||\\` http://home.mindspring.com/~hawkster
''``
(Member: Coalition of Those Attempting to Think Clearly and Probably Failing)
-= Hawk =-
>Hawk: Do you do that with your left hand, or your right hand? :-)
Actually I usually frolic with my feet <smirk>
Enchanting Angel
her claimed incompetent based on the "facts" the warrens provided the
Medical Doctor! then he had himself claimed as her guardian, and then had
her committed. You dont live in texas so i dont expect you to understand
how texas courts can be unfair sometimes to folks. And being as i see from
the posts yourve posted youre the one who will always be right no matter
what concerning this, so im not reading any more posts from you.
--
Angel
=============================
The Tiger lives in a world of sunlight and shadow
Always secretive--Never devious
Always a killer--Never a murderer
Solitary--Never alone
For it is an irreplaceable link
In the process and the wholeness of life."
-John Seidensticker
===============================
SWPSRG1 wrote in message <19990428105356...@ng39.aol.com>...
r.p.m.
Stephen wrote:
>
> Almost forgot.
<<<<Major PsychoSnippage>>>
> Stupid, inadequate me was under the
> assumption that most of you religious fanatics were like our poor brother
> Patrick (love ya Pat). Perhaps it was what you studied last week in PSY 101
> at Mud Duck Community College Bar & Grill. Grandiose cogitate patterns to
> you too ending with middle finger extending skyward, Troll!
><<Kiss kiss to you, sweetie!>>>
raoultom
thoughts on this subject.
SWPSRG1 wrote:
> ...If someone even the Warrens, make a statement about the existence of Paranormal
> Phenomenon. Without the (benefit) of physical evidence and you accept the
> statement as being a statement of fact, then you have made a commitment to the
> validity of that statement. In doing so you have also fabricated data, because
> you cannot prove your statement.
How does "believing" imply the faking of data? There is no necessary
relationship here; usually, I would say, the kind of belief you're
talking about requires no data, real or fake.
> The Best we as researchers can do when we are involved in researching
> Paranormal activity is to GATHER, RECORDED and STORE the data.
To what end? What's the point of doing all this if you don't intend to
analyze it? Just gonna save it all 'til someone better comes along to
put it all together?
> We cannot make a rational analysis of the data because there is no prove that
> the data even has any validity.
Umm... I'm no scientist, but deciding whether the data have any validity
before you analyze seems counterproductive. In fact, this sounds like a
good description of what you're arguing against: forming your theory
before you have any "clues."
>So what I say is just as valid as what you say
> or what the Warren's
> say. You cannot fabricate what does not exist...
Here's that pre-judging, again. I'm not sure that deciding "the
paranormal" DOES NOT exist is the best way to be skeptical about the
subject.
>...unless you believe in the
> existence of the activity in your own reality. But that reality would be flawed
> because it is based on nothingness and of course you can't prove nothing
> without evidence to prove something does exist.
This all makes my head whirl... I thought all that gathering and
recording and stuff was to be able to avoid this kind of metaphysical
double-talk.
>If you believe in things you
> don't understand its called superstition!
With all due respect to Stevie Wonder, this statement is catchy rather
than useful. I believe in lots of stuff I don't understand, like
electricity and the ability of people (other than myself) to make a
successful buerre blanc. Sure, I probably should understand them;
really, I ought to gather, record, store, and analyze the data involved
in each situation and decide for myself. But why reinvent the wheel
every day?
It seems to me that your attitude of analyzing nothing so you don't run
the risk of believing anything leads to the continual reinvention of the
wheel. I'm not saying anything new here, but I urge you to remember that
"skeptical" does not need to imply "believing in nothing."
> The best that can be done is to Gather, Record and Store.
>
> Analysis at this time would not be fruitful
When, then?
I hope you write back, because I'm interested in what you have to say.
You are helping me to think through some stuff I've had on my mind for
awhile. And please, everyone, I'm not afraid to get booted in the ass if
I'm making no sense. How will I ever learn to think without the
occasional boot? :)
Whirr,
Mary
Stephen
You know more about research than they do. Of course you're supposed to
analyze data. Pulease>
--
Humbly,
Stephen
Porch Alchemist
Looking for ghost hunters in Jax, Fl
http://www.jacksonville.net/~park/spr.htm
"To love one's self is the beginning of a lifelong romance." -- Wilde
ICQ 36102673
raoultom <raou...@laplaza.org> wrote in message
news:3727A4...@laplaza.org...
raoultom
Limber, aren't we?
Whirr,
Mary
-= Hawk =-
scribbled:
>Oy.
>
>Limber, aren't we?
Oy!
DHawk0948
That's not the case. The only writers who are rich from their writing are the
biggies like, for example, Stephen King, Tom Clancy, John Grisham, among a few
others. It's very different for most other writers, like me.<<
I can vouch for this. Writers are the bottom of the feeding chain and when
someone is going to get et, guess who's a*s the first chunk come from?
Doug
Lady Grey Wolf
(Could't help it)
--
---
/ \ _-'
_/| \-''- _ /
__-' { | \
/ \
/ "o. |o }
| \ ;
',
\_ __\
''-_ \.//
/ '-____'
/
_' Lady Grey Wolf
_-'
DHawk0948 wrote in message <19990428232139...@ng-fv1.aol.com>...
ControlB
What are you going to use as a (baseline) for your research?
How are you going to prove cause and effect?
Can you duplicate the phenomenon in a controlled environment?
Can other researchers duplicate your findings?
What are the tools you will be using to analyze your data?
You just can't just makeup the rules as you go along can you? Do you?
Finney
Lady Willow
somebody doesn't agree with you or hawk or stephen, they are always troll ? I'm not
trying to be mean or anything... just wondering.... Happened quite a few time
lately... should I be affraid of disagreeing with you ? I really don't get it..
don't pay attention to me, I'm just trying to catch up.. but really..I wonder... can
I be the porch nice troll ? then if I disagree with you guys you can say TROLL ALERT
and there won't be any confusion... makes me think about the after war (WWII) they
were seeing communist everywhere... Or that neighbore of my parents that was ALWAYS
around.. so when he didn't come, my father saw him coming anyway.. but maybe it's
always the same person so you already know it'sa troll... mmmmmm that's a
possibility too.. but seems to me that controlB is someone we knew... not sure
thought... suddently I miss Ray... and vince, and jennine.... was no flames, troll
were welcomed in... so they couldn't be enjoying trolling here... cause we didn't
care... as simple as that..
Why don't we just relax, you know take it easy and all... hey I've got an idea ! We
take a bath all together !! that would be cool ! gotta like strawberry scented
bubbles thought ! they are my favorites ! Hey trolls ! come take a bath with us...
maybe the strawberry scent will calm you down and we can be friends... would be cool
! .... is the porch anywhere near the sea ? yeah ? anyone ha a sailboat ? mine's
wrecked :o( but I can manage it, or help at least ! fishermen's friend... best
anti-cough candy ever ! taste like shit (not that I ever tasted it) but sure help!
YA KNOW WHAT ? I'M FINISHING SCHOOL TOMORROW !!!!!!!!! KNOW WHAT ELSE ? IT'S MY
BIRTHDAY IN 4 DODO(sleeps) bought myself a gift.. new rollerblades... they are real
fine ! but hey... what was I talking about.... originaly I mean.... oh yeh trolls...
mmmmmmmmm.... BBQ... naaaaaaw ... coming back to the bath idea.... wouldn't that be
cool ? everybody in the biggest bath in the world ! well a pool, full of bubbles !
hehehe I used to be a life guard ya know ? but to be watching 80 peoples in a pool
full of bubbbles would be hell .... hey ! bublebleblebles LMAO! love the sound of
that ! I'm going crazy... but that's hwk's fault... he messed with my brain on ICQ !
hey hawk ! I forgot your a.... made hwk kinda hard to pronounce... sounds like a
fart but backward... I'm going to bed... forget about me for a fewdays... I'm going
to bed tomorrow night... get uponly oinday <----- this new weekday is brought to you
by Willow and willow corporation !was MONDAY this started as a fairly serious
post... sowy ! I got lost on the way down... DON'T DO DRUGS !!! it is dangeruos for
your sanity... mom said so... but then, she's been studying in a covent (you know a
nun house) kinda rubbed off... she's fine, only a little weird.. weird peoples
shouldn't be living... we are a traumas for the nice peoples... a teacher said that
to me once... just after she told me I was the weirdest person she had ever met..
was kinda nice.. well I'm off... gotta sleep a little.. think about me around 2PM..
my exam start at 1PM so I should be swearing my head off after an hour or so... bye
bye... ((HUGS)) luv ya all ! really... I don't always understand but I do luv ya !
my hugs were on the cheap side huh ?
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) there ! cya in the
bath !
Will~ who's too tired to shut up ! isn't that tired enough for you ?
"r.p.m." wrote:
> TROLL ALERT! Call out the Porch Barbecue Pit Crew!
> Either drop it or take it to email you guys, this is getting personal,
> ok? Thank you in advance.
>
> ControlB wrote:
> >
> > >Any researcher,
> > >> paranormal or otherwise, loses credibility whenever they fabricate data
> >
> > I understand now Stephen, you have a method that proves or disproves the data
> > on Paranormal & Supernatural phenomenon. This is why you know beyond a doubt,
> > that the data that the Warrens had, has been fabricated.
> >
> > I would like to read the research studies or even the physical evidents, that
> > prove your alleged point of view. I certainly hope this was not hear say
> > information. And by the way do you find it satisfying to wage personal attacks
> > on others. It was very disappointing for me when I noted that the best you
> > could come up with was Troll. After such a display of impressive scientific
> > jargon. Do I see shadows of inadequacy in your make up?
> >
> > Brought about by low self-esteem and involving Infantile Personality or
> > possibly Borderline Personality Disorder. It is obvious that you (think) you
> > are above all the rest of us Trolls and whacked out religious fanatics
> > (Grandiose cogitate patterns Stephen)
> > Finney
--
Luv & hugs
Willow
"Darken wood?" Caramon repeated in alarm. "No, Tanis!"
The warrior shook his head. "I'll fight the living any
day of the week-but not the dead!"
(Dragonlance, Chronicles, book 1, p. 70)
ICQ me ! I lost my list ! 4370897
Lady Willow
raoultom wrote:
> Howdy, I can't resist this opportunity to clarify a few of my own
> thoughts on this subject.
>
> SWPSRG1 wrote:
>
> > ...If someone even the Warrens, make a statement about the existence of Paranormal
> > Phenomenon. Without the (benefit) of physical evidence and you accept the
> > statement as being a statement of fact, then you have made a commitment to the
> > validity of that statement. In doing so you have also fabricated data, because
> > you cannot prove your statement.
I think that he or she or it meant that if the warrens believe something, and you go and
decide that since they beleive it it's a fact then you,re fabricating data. in a way I
agree, if I asserts that it,s a fact just because MUMBO JUMBO said so, then I'm
fabricating data because I have no evidence of it. BUT shouldn't we consider that
everything (or almost) we consider being facts haven't been prooved by ourself ? I mean
if I say that sea water is salty and that somebody who has never been anywhere near the
sea say, if she says so it's a fact.. it still is a fact because she's borrowing it from
someone who could proove it... who experienced it.. As far as paranormal exist, I can
say it's a fact because I withnessed (sp?) it. but even then someone could come around
and decided that it is not a fact because I could have been on dope or whatever...
>
>
> How does "believing" imply the faking of data? There is no necessary
> relationship here; usually, I would say, the kind of belief you're
> talking about requires no data, real or fake.
>
> > The Best we as researchers can do when we are involved in researching
> > Paranormal activity is to GATHER, RECORDED and STORE the data.
>
> To what end? What's the point of doing all this if you don't intend to
> analyze it? Just gonna save it all 'til someone better comes along to
> put it all together?
gathring data by itself isn'T being a researcher, any halfwit can gather data, the
reasearcher is the one who take those data and goes out of his way to understand them,
even if he can't proove anything, he still can élaborate hypothesis that will help him
in other research... or eliminate some hypothesis he had made before..
>
>
> > We cannot make a rational analysis of the data because there is no prove that
> > the data even has any validity.
>
> Umm... I'm no scientist, but deciding whether the data have any validity
> before you analyze seems counterproductive. In fact, this sounds like a
> good description of what you're arguing against: forming your theory
> before you have any "clues."
this is funny ! make so little sense, every data has validity, either to proove
something or "disproove" something, if you gathered it, it mean it caught your attention
for a reason, you can later realize that it is not appropriate, but by doing so you'll
narrow down your data source..
>
>
> >So what I say is just as valid as what you say
> > or what the Warren's
> > say. You cannot fabricate what does not exist...
>
> Here's that pre-judging, again. I'm not sure that deciding "the
> paranormal" DOES NOT exist is the best way to be skeptical about the
> subject.
The you're opinion is yours and mine is mine isn't any way near analytical thinking, the
thing is to build up an argumentation and then discuss things and bring forth
arguments.not to "change the other's mind" but to bring new data/opinions/information to
light so each other can "enlarge" his/her point of view.
>
>
> >...unless you believe in the
> > existence of the activity in your own reality. But that reality would be flawed
> > because it is based on nothingness and of course you can't prove nothing
> > without evidence to prove something does exist.
Wow bring us back to the "I am cause I think" the only think that had any validity is
the fact that "I" exist because everything else could be only illusion. suddently I fell
very alone. For a scientist you just destroyed any kind of scientifical knowledge that
could exist.
>
>
> This all makes my head whirl... I thought all that gathering and
> recording and stuff was to be able to avoid this kind of metaphysical
> double-talk.
>
> >If you believe in things you
> > don't understand its called superstition!
>
> With all due respect to Stevie Wonder, this statement is catchy rather
> than useful. I believe in lots of stuff I don't understand, like
> electricity and the ability of people (other than myself) to make a
> successful buerre blanc. Sure, I probably should understand them;
> really, I ought to gather, record, store, and analyze the data involved
> in each situation and decide for myself. But why reinvent the wheel
> every day?
So the fact that I believe cow are producing milk is superstition... see I know they do
produce milk, but I don't understand how... or better yet, 2+2=4 that is a
superstition... I know it'strue but can anybody explain to me why ? could say it's
because if you take 2 beans and add 2 beans it makes 4 beans... ok, that I get but why ?
why does it make 4 beans ?
>
>
> It seems to me that your attitude of analyzing nothing so you don't run
> the risk of believing anything leads to the continual reinvention of the
> wheel. I'm not saying anything new here, but I urge you to remember that
> "skeptical" does not need to imply "believing in nothing."
I agree completely there... :o)
>
>
> > The best that can be done is to Gather, Record and Store.
> >
> > Analysis at this time would not be fruitful
>
> When, then?
if you say that because you need furter gathering of information ok, like saying look I
don't have enough, analysing it would only lead to " I need more data" that's ok, but
only if you have acces to other data, if not you gotta try and analyse from what you
have, either that or don't bother gathering,,, you,ll get your basement full of trunk
for the pleasure of playing the scientist.
>
>
> I hope you write back, because I'm interested in what you have to say.
> You are helping me to think through some stuff I've had on my mind for
> awhile. And please, everyone, I'm not afraid to get booted in the ass if
> I'm making no sense. How will I ever learn to think without the
> occasional boot? :)
>
> Whirr,
> Mary
So far in my point of view your arguments were very intelligent (meaning here that they
were well chosen... well thought..huh.. grrrrrrrr Ineed an english teacher !)
The Alchemist
What is the research question? What is the phenomenon? What is the
research design? Since you are restricted to one environment, one group of
people,etc. Quasi-experimental is a good choice.
If doing a qualitative study, the same questions must be asked, but:
There is no baseline,
No cause and effect
Cannot repeat exact experiment, how could a researcher following Meade see
exactly the same ceremony? Corroboration is the best one can hope for, and
some studies are meta-analysis of data.
You cannot control the environment, nor do you want to.
Tools depend upon design.
No, but the design can be emergent.
Option 3 is a study using botha qualitative and quantitative.
Once again, you reveaI an inadequate education to argue you point. I cannot
and will not teach you through email, what has taken me five years beyond my
undergraduate work to understand (research methods). Obviously, as I stated
before, you have no knowledge of research (you keep returning to one general
method), therefore you need to take my previous suggestion and learn about
research. Start with Margaret Mead, Guba & Lincoln, Cresswell, Eisner, and
if you like Voduon, Wade Davis. If you choose Davis, read Serpent and the
Rainbow (cover to cover) then rent the movie Serpent and the Rainbow. The
analogy is that the movie compares to the Warrens (dribble), the book is
serious research.
Read The Amityville Conspiracy by Stephen Kaplan, Ph.D.
--
Humbly,
Stephen
Porch Alchemist with BPD
Looking for ghost hunters in Jax, Fl
http://www.jacksonville.net/~park/spr.htm
"Now go get your shine box." -- Goodfellas
ICQ 36102673
ControlB <cont...@aol.comFinney> wrote in message
news:19990429045608...@ng42.aol.com...
r.p.m.
ControlB wrote:
>
> Stephen
>
> What are you going to use as a (baseline) for your research?
>
> How are you going to prove cause and effect?
>
> Can you duplicate the phenomenon in a controlled environment?
>
> Can other researchers duplicate your findings?
>
> What are the tools you will be using to analyze your data?
>
> You just can't just makeup the rules as you go along can you? Do you?
>
>
>
> Finney
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
The Porch Alchemist can of course speak for himself, however, I
thought I'd throw in just a couple of examples of what I believe he
may be referring to:
Geomagnetic Fluctuations and Free-
response Anomalous Cognition: A New
Understanding
By S. James P Spottiswoode
A meta-analysis of GESP free-response
experiments (including Ganzfeld and Re-
mote Viewing) and the effect of geomag-
netic fluctuations. The research found corre-
lation (N+134, p=0.0001) between trials oc-
curring at approximately 13 hours Local
Sidereal Time (the longitudinal-like astro-
nomical coordinate for the portion of the
celestial sphere that is directly overhead at
the time of the viewing).
Studies: 51 free response studies / 2,879
individual trials
References: lO
Published: The Journal of Parapsychology
V.61/N1, March 1997
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx
EEG AND SPECT DATA OF A SELECTED SUBJECT DURING PSI TASKS: THE
DISCOVERY OF
A NEUROPHYSIOLOGICAL CORRELATE
CHERYL H. ALEXANDER, MICHAEL A. PERSINGER, WILLIAM G.
ROLL, AND DAVID L. WEBSTER
ABSTRACT: Electroencephalograph (EEG) and Single-Photon
Emission Computerized Tomography
(SPECT) data were collected from Sean Harribance, a well
documented psychic who has previously
participated in laboratory research, while he was engaged in
psi tasks. This data was independently collected
from 2 different laboratories during 1997.
The primary goal of the EEG data collection was to
determine the dominant electrocortical activity and its
location while Sean participated in psi tasks. EEG data were
collected from Sean in the following 5 psi tasks:
2 psychic readings from photographs, 2 runs of card guessing
with standard ESP cards using the down
through method, and 1 remote viewing trial. After removing
any artifacts, the data for each condition were
then spectrally averaged and topographic brain maps were
computed which showed that while Sean was
engaged in psi tasks, alpha was dominant bilaterally in the
paraoccipital region, with alpha power being
strongest in the right parietal lobe at electrode placement
P4. A lack of alpha activity was seen in the frontal
and temporal lobes.
For subsequent data analysis, Dr. Robert Thatcher at
Applied Neuroscience Laboratory in Redington
Shores, Florida, edited and removed any artifacts from the
raw EEG data collected from Sean during an
eyes-closed baseline. He then analyzed the data for EEG
coherence, phase, amplitude differences, and
relative power, and compared these measures to the data in
his Lifespan Reference EEG Database using the
appropriate age-matched group. Results show deviations from
the reference database that are primarily
bilateral, involving the occipital, temporal, and frontal
regions. Sub-optimal neural function is indicated,
especially in the frontal and temporal cortical regions.
Two Tc-99m SPECT ECD brain scans were completed with Sean
in order to contrast a baseline resting
condition with a psi task condition. The results indicate
the areas of Sean's brain that were active while he
was in the psi task condition and the baseline resting
condition. The most pronounced finding was increased
uptake of the tracer, relative to cerebellar uptake, in the
paracentral lobule and in the superior parietal lobule
of the right hemisphere only during the psi task condition.
A mild decrease of function in the frontal, temporal,
and thalamus regions is suggested by the lack of uptake of
tracer in these areas during both conditions.
The consistency of the results across laboratories,
equipment, experimenters, and research protocols
suggests the existence of a neurophysiological correlate
which is stable across both time and conditions. It is
hypothesized that the parietal cortex is activated while
Sean is engaged in psi tasks as this part of the brain is
attributed with visual search attention via the posterior
attention network. Also, it is speculated that Sean's
brain may be more highly developed or may function at a
higher level in the parietal cortex to compensate for
a lack of activity or sub-optimal neural function in the
frontal and temporal cortical regions. The data
presented is specific for Sean and may not be applicable to
others. Further research with other selected
subjects is needed in order to determine if these results
can be replicated between subjects.
r.p.m.
premature Happy B-Day! YAAAYYY!!!
Look Isis! It's a GRADUATE!!
Lady Willow wrote:
><<<<<Major Troll Bath Snippage>>>>
r.p.m.
You posted just as I was heading for bed here at 3:30am...have a good
day. Angel, Stormy, Lady Willow..nitey nite all.
The Alchemist wrote:
> <<<<<Major Relevent Snippage in answer to Major Finney Drivel>>>>>>
Samantha Perry
habit of insulting people. Debate is hugely encouraged here - personal
insults are not, why don't you learn some manners ok?
--
sam
Porch Cheerleader and member of the Porch Spanking Squad
s...@removeavspecialist.co.za
www.avspecialist.co.za
~Be yourself, no-one can ever tell you you're doing it wrong - James Leo
Herlihy~
ControlB wrote in message <19990428010436...@ng125.aol.com>...
ControlB
Yes, I agree you can lie.
If you say that apparitions do have credence and the person/s don't believe in
the existence of apparitions then even if you lie about it you will not effect
their belief system of that person.
Maybe this is why the need of prove or evidence is so important, when engaged
in topics that can effect ones belief system?
So let them lie, you know better and let them equivocate though life. But if it
does not exist in your belief system you can't be lied too, because you know
the truthas far as you are concerned . Its safer to deal with life on a
physical level.
Ah, Lorie will you bring me a cool glass of water to cool my flamed brow.
Take care Lorie, thanks for the feed back
Bye
Finney
ControlB
I am will to give you the floor and I am willing to learn. Teach me all about
Research Methodologies.
Let the topic of research be Apparitions and the Hypothesis will you decided
what that will be.
I will sit here and learn.
Finney
ControlB
what your point of view is. You answer your own question. Its not my place to
change you believing in what every you please. To answer your question would
bring discontent. That is not my intentions my were to state my point of view.
If you agree with me fine, if you don't agree with me that also fine.
Finney
ControlB
There is know reasons to continue with this fiasco. You can't argue with a sick
mind. I've learned that years ago in a 101 class, funny how something don't
change.
I am content with this out come.
People recognize your equivocated manner in deal with topics.
I really believe you are jealous of not only the Warren's but of anything or
anyone who may shine brighter then you. Gee what it feel like to feel so
inferior to others ?
Is it because you only love yourself and find the rest of us an inconvenience.
Hey its been fun.
Finney
ControlB
Finney
ControlB
heads get you down.
Do you remember me now my Lady
Finney
ControlB
Finney
ControlB
I have a story to tell you, I got it from the white rabbit with a top hat on
before it went down the rabbit hole. Want to here it ?
Finney
-= Hawk =-
>There is know reasons to continue with this fiasco. You can't argue with a sick
>mind. I've learned that years ago in a 101 class, funny how something don't
>change.
As you've proven.
>I am content with this out come.
Then why drag the thread on?
>People recognize your equivocated manner in deal with topics.
Look in a mirror, you're recognize a troll...
>I really believe you are jealous of not only the Warren's but of anything or
>anyone who may shine brighter then you. Gee what it feel like to feel so
>inferior to others ?
Your moral high ground crumbles sadly with these infantile and childish
insults, you attempt to act and look superior yet you stoop to such a level
for your replies? you're not even a good troll...
>Is it because you only love yourself and find the rest of us an inconvenience.
I love myself, often....
>Hey its been fun.
Bye, don't let the metaphysical door hit you in the hypothetical ass on the
way out...
-= Hawk =-
>Thank you Lady Willow for your support and understanding, Don't let the pin
>heads get you down.
[this is otherwise known as kissing the ass of the only person nice to you
ploy]
ControlB
You make a lot of assumption.
I see you did not disagree with Infantile Personality Disorder!
>Grandiose cogitate patterns to
>you too ending with middle finger extending skyward, Troll!
A real professional ending to your ravings. Stephen
I must say I don't understand why you find support in your collective.
It must be your boyish charm. Hey!
Backup on the porch now Stephen, you have made a big enough fool of yourself.
Bye
Finney
ControlB
Finney
-= Hawk =-
>It must be your boyish charm. Hey!
beats whatever kind of slimy charm you're emitting...
>Backup on the porch now Stephen, you have made a big enough fool of yourself.
There's the pot calling the kettle black if I ever saw one...
Enchanting Angel
>Painful, Stephen
>
>You make a lot of assumption.
>
>I see you did not disagree with Infantile Personality Disorder!
Of course he didnt you proved his point :)
Angel
=============================
The Tiger lives in a world of sunlight and shadow
Always secretive--Never devious
Always a killer--Never a murderer
Solitary--Never alone
For it is an irreplaceable link
In the process and the wholeness of life."
-John Seidensticker
===============================
Mumbling Idiot
way, you where asking if someone remembered you, I don't remember well, but
yes, I remember you. A few months back correct? Are you mad at him for
something? You seem to respond nicely to everyone else. But if he tries to
debate a topic with you all you come back with are rude comments. Personally
and you may take it as unprofessionally as you want, but just take your
rude, snide, wanna be nice guy ass and leave. Please?
Henry T.
ControlB wrote in message <19990429123824...@ng-fp1.aol.com>...
>Painful, Stephen
>>Grandiose cogitate patterns to
>>you too ending with middle finger extending skyward, Troll!
>
>A real professional ending to your ravings. Stephen
>>
>Bye
>
>
>
>
>Finney
Stormy
ControlB
From the postings I've read from you , you would have no trouble teaching me a
thing or two
Finney
ControlB
yours.
He made my point for me .
Finney
ControlB
Finney
The Alchemist
--
Humbly,
Stephen
Porch Alchemist with BPD
Looking for ghost hunters in Jax, Fl
http://www.jacksonville.net/~park/spr.htm
"To love one's self is the beginning of a lifelong romance." -- Wilde
ICQ 36102673
<Willows long boat ride snipped>