The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress - translation help appreciated
rhino
this time, I'm trying to built a table showing translations of all of the
foreign words and phrases. Many of these words are Russian but there is also
a smattering of other languages, including Swedish and Cantonese. While the
story is still clear and understandable without knowing the exact meanings
of every one of these phrases, I still want to built this table, just for
the heck of it.
Anyway, I'm having trouble finding literal translations of two of the
Russian words/phrases that Heinlein uses:
"ee sp'coynoynochi" and "gostaneestsa". Can anyone help me with those two?
Also, is "drecklich" a Russian word? If so, does it mean "dirty"? I know
that German and Russian have some common vocabulary and "dreck" is the
German word for "dirt". Adding a "lich" to a word in German makes it an
adjective, so "drecklich" would imply "dirty" except for the fact that the
German word for "dirty" is "dreckig", not "drecklich". I'm wondering if
"drecklich" is the _RUSSIAN_ word for "dirty"? Perhaps Russian forms
adjectives a bit differently. Or maybe Heinlein simply confused "dreckig"
("dirty") with "schrecklich" ("nasty")? Or maybe he combined the first half
of the former with the last half of the latter to invent a word of false
German that means "dirty" AND "nasty".
--
Rhino
JT
<No.offline.c...@anonymous.com> wrote:
>
>Anyway, I'm having trouble finding literal translations of two of the
>Russian words/phrases that Heinlein uses:
>"ee sp'coynoynochi" and "gostaneestsa". Can anyone help me with those two?
"Good Night" and "Hotel"...I think. My Russian studies were a long
time ago, and those cool translation gadgets on the Internet don't
work as well when you don't go to the trouble to use a Cyrillic font.
;)
JT
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Bill Patterson
wrote:
"Drecklich" is an idiomatic German expression and would be
transliterated into English as "shitty" I haven't investigated
whether it comes from Bavarian dialect or some of the plattdeutsch
dialects. Shared vocabulary of Russian with German comes from the
number of German army and engineers brought into Russia for a couple
of centuries. "Schrecklich" and "schrechklichkeit" entered English
volcabulary from practices of the German Wehrmacht during WWII and is
usualy translated as "frightful" and "frightfulness." Heinlein used
all of these terms in such a way as to show that he knew the meanings
and used them correctly.
Yisroel Markov
>I'm rereading The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress for the third or fourth time and,
>this time, I'm trying to built a table showing translations of all of the
>foreign words and phrases. Many of these words are Russian but there is also
>a smattering of other languages, including Swedish and Cantonese. While the
>story is still clear and understandable without knowing the exact meanings
>of every one of these phrases, I still want to built this table, just for
>the heck of it.
>
>Anyway, I'm having trouble finding literal translations of two of the
>Russian words/phrases that Heinlein uses:
>"ee sp'coynoynochi" and "gostaneestsa". Can anyone help me with those two?
"Spokoinoy nochi" means "good night," and "gostinitza" is a hotel.
>Also, is "drecklich" a Russian word? If so, does it mean "dirty"? I know
>that German and Russian have some common vocabulary and "dreck" is the
>German word for "dirt". Adding a "lich" to a word in German makes it an
>adjective, so "drecklich" would imply "dirty" except for the fact that the
>German word for "dirty" is "dreckig", not "drecklich". I'm wondering if
>"drecklich" is the _RUSSIAN_ word for "dirty"?
No, it's not. In my [mostly] Russian-speaking household we use the
word "dreck", but with us it's an Yiddishism rather than a Germanism.
It means "shit."
>Perhaps Russian forms adjectives a bit differently.
>Or maybe Heinlein simply confused "dreckig"
>("dirty") with "schrecklich" ("nasty")?
He has Prof instruct Mike regarding the first bombing: "Maximum
instructive shrecklichkeit with minimal loss of life." So most likely
he was not confused.
>Or maybe he combined the first half
>of the former with the last half of the latter to invent a word of false
>German that means "dirty" AND "nasty".
More likely it means "crappy."
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
Robert A. Woodward
<556878f2-869e-426c...@23g2000pry.googlegroups.com>,
Bill Patterson <WHPat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 23, 3:01?pm, "rhino" <No.offline.contact.ple...@anonymous.com>
> wrote:
<Snip a couple of questions>
> >
> > Also, is "drecklich" a Russian word? If so, does it mean "dirty"? I know
> > that German and Russian have some common vocabulary and "dreck" is the
> > German word for "dirt".
<snip>
>
> "Drecklich" is an idiomatic German expression and would be
> transliterated into English as "shitty" I haven't investigated
> whether it comes from Bavarian dialect or some of the plattdeutsch
> dialects. Shared vocabulary of Russian with German comes from the
> number of German army and engineers brought into Russia for a couple
> of centuries. "Schrecklich" and "schrechklichkeit" entered English
> volcabulary from practices of the German Wehrmacht during WWII and is
> usualy translated as "frightful" and "frightfulness." Heinlein used
> all of these terms in such a way as to show that he knew the meanings
> and used them correctly.
I think it was World War I, see
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrecklichkeit> (and I have seen
references to this elsewhere).
--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>
coonass
> Also, is "drecklich" a Russian word? If so, does it mean "dirty"? I know
> that German and Russian have some common vocabulary and "dreck" is the
> German word for "dirt". Adding a "lich" to a word in German makes it an
> adjective, so "drecklich" would imply "dirty" except for the fact that the
> German word for "dirty" is "dreckig", not "drecklich". I'm wondering if
> "drecklich" is the _RUSSIAN_ word for "dirty"? Perhaps Russian forms
> adjectives a bit differently. Or maybe Heinlein simply confused "dreckig"
> ("dirty") with "schrecklich" ("nasty")? Or maybe he combined the first half
> of the former with the last half of the latter to invent a word of false
> German that means "dirty" AND "nasty".
"Dreck" is the Yiddish word for "shit."
"Drecklich" is a bastardized combination of "dreck" with the German
adjectival ending "lich" (Heinlein has done that since in his
synthetic language "Galacta"). "Drecklich" = "shitty."
So you were close, just not spot-on. Yiddish originated in an area
that includes a few parts of Russia but is centered over Eastern and
parts of Central Europe.
rhino
"rhino" <No.offline.c...@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:ggcnbl$oji$1...@news.datemas.de...
--
Rhino
Bill Patterson
It it bastardized, or simply Yiddische? or Yiddische-Deutsch? I
haven't run across any indication that it's an agrammatical
formation. (There are plenty of regional dialects of German as well
as the major distinction between Hochdeutsch and Plattdeutsch), but
slightly related languages (such as Schwaebisch) spoken in that area.
coonass
I dunno. Yisroel, is "drecklich" something you guys would say?
Yisroel Markov
No. AFAIK, Yiddish uses a different suffix - "sheh" - for this, but
I've never heard it attached to "dreck."
Bill Patterson
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Pretty much what I thought. 'lich is a pretty common German adverbial
suffix.