JKR is wrong!
Peter Lobley
*herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't "let
it go".
I always pronounced Hermione as 'Hermeeown' I had no doubt that this was
how it was pronounced. Then one day I came across a debate in this
newsgroup about how it should be pronounced and saw that people were saying
it should be 'Herm ay on ee' (or however you want to describe the sound)
This didn't make sense to me. I was still adamant that it was 'Hermeeown'.
Then the film was released and it was obvious then that JKR herself
pronounced it 'Herm ay on ee'. This didn't change my opinion because I
believe, being English, that I know the English language quite well. So
here is why I believe it should be 'Hermeeown'...
There is a *single* vowel - 'e' at the end of 'Hermione. In the English
language whenever there is a single e with no other vowels it is SILENT!
pheromone - 'pheromown' (the closest word I can think of to Hermione)
suitcase - 'sootcays'
vase - 'vaaz' or 'vays'
plate - 'playt'
I can't think of, nor do I *ever* remember seeing a word in the English
language with an e at the end where the 'e' is pronounced. Except a few
foreign words, and even those are a matter of opinion - (porsche is
sometimes pronounced 'porshe', usualy by annoying types. but most common
sense people pronounce it 'porsh'). This would suggest that Hermione is
foreign but that it is still valid to pronounce it 'hermeeown'. (however I
think it is rare for an English family [the grangers for example] to give
their child a foreign name)
The reason the 'e' is preset at the end of lots of words is because, as I
learned in English at school, (I remember this because it seemed silly at
the time) it is the 'magic e' this means that although it is silent, it
has the ability to alter the pronounciation of preceding letters.
the e in pheromone turns it from 'pheromon' to 'pheromown'
the e in plane turns it from 'plan' to 'playn'
the e in suitcase turns it from 'suitcas' to 'suitcays'
the e in vase turs it from 'vas' to 'vazz' or 'vays'
the e in place turns it from 'plac' to playse' or 'plase' (it changes the c
from a 'k' sound to a 's' sound)
the e in Hermione turns it from 'hermayon' to 'Hermeeown'.
if Hermione was 'herm ay own ee' would plate be 'playtee'? would suitcase
be 'sootcaysee' would pheromone be 'pheromownee'? I don't think so. I
suggest that Hermione be spelled differently if it *must* be pronounced
'herm ay own ee'...
Hermionie or Hermionee, Hermiony. They make a hell of a lot more sense as
being pronounced 'herm ay own ee'
Now that I have got (not 'gotten' btw) that off my chest I can sleep at
night.
Jaspreet
news:a65dfu$bru8u$1...@ID-75938.news.dfncis.de...
> I am going to attempt to prove two things - 1. That either JK Rowling
> *herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
> therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't
"let
> it go".
>
> I always pronounced Hermione as 'Hermeeown' I had no doubt that this was
> how it was pronounced. Then one day I came across a debate in this
> newsgroup about how it should be pronounced and saw that people were
saying
> it should be 'Herm ay on ee' (or however you want to describe the sound)
> This didn't make sense to me. I was still adamant that it was 'Hermeeown'.
>
I'm not English, nor is English my native tongue. I'd be interested in
knowing your thoughts on the pronunciation of
"Nike" and "Adobe" both of which have their last 'e' pronounced as
Hermione's last 'e'.
Thanks.
Ed Brims
"Peter Lobley" <lob...@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:a65dfu$bru8u$1...@ID-75938.news.dfncis.de...
> *herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
> therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't
"let
> it go".
>
No, it really is "Her-my-oh-nee". I have a friend called Hermione and
that's how she pronounces it. It's Greek originally (daughter of Helen of
Troy, I think), which sort of makes it foreign and stupid.
> This would suggest that Hermione is
> foreign but that it is still valid to pronounce it 'hermeeown'. (however I
> think it is rare for an English family [the grangers for example] to give
> their child a foreign name)
No, the Hermione I know is a perfectly normal English Muggle.
Dizzeey
>language with an e at the end where the 'e' is pronounced.
Calliope
Main Entry: cal·li·ope
Pronunciation: k&-'lI-&-(")pE, in sense 2 also 'ka-lE-"Op
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, from Greek KalliopE
1 : capitalized : the Greek Muse of heroic poetry
2 : a keyboard musical instrument resembling an organ and consisting of a
series of whistles sounded by steam or compressed air
*shrug*
You Know Who
Her-my-own-ee. End of discussion. Originally I thought it was Her-me-own,
but then I heard Stephen Fry (who I think has a daughter called Hermione) in
the audio books and it is pronounced Her-my-own-ee. But this just proved
how ignorant I was.
--
You Know Who
Webmaster
http://www.planetpotter.co.uk
"domiller" <doo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:j4jc8ukpe7kpdpfae...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:42:18 -0000, "Peter Lobley" <lob...@freeuk.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I am going to attempt to prove two things - 1. That either JK Rowling
> >*herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
> >therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't
"let
> >it go".
> >
> >I always pronounced Hermione as 'Hermeeown' I had no doubt that this was
> >how it was pronounced. Then one day I came across a debate in this
> >newsgroup about how it should be pronounced and saw that people were
saying
> >it should be 'Herm ay on ee' (or however you want to describe the sound)
> >This didn't make sense to me. I was still adamant that it was
'Hermeeown'.
> >
>
> There was once a well known English comedic actress named Hermione
> Gringold. Even this Yank remembers her, and that she pronounced her
> own name "Her - my' - oh - nee". Just like JK Rowling and the movie.
>
> - Doug
>
>
TheCatinTX
Even this Yank remembers her, and that she pronounced her
own name "Her - my' - oh - nee".
I believe that actroess was Hermione Granger, but nevertheless... your point
about how she pronounced her name is correct.
Tallon J. Larham
> night.
Well, It has been pronounced Her-my-own-ee for a LONG time. Reference
A Winter's Tale by W. Shakespeare. Check out any performance of it you
wish. One of the main characters names is Hermione. It is always
pronounced Her-my-own-ee. I don't claim to understand the lagistics of
the pronociation, but it has been done that way for a long time, so it
just as well might be accepted. The English language is pluck-full of
inconsitances, we just have to deal. I pronounced it the way you did
untill I came across the play, and have just accepted the common way
of saying it (It sounds better anyway:) Don't lose anymore sleep, take
a sedative, put away the Grammar book, and be happy.
Tallon
Jaspreet
news:20020306123526...@mb-ba.aol.com...
Also,
Extempore
ik-'stem-p&-(")rE
From www.m-w.com
Jaspreet
news:a65dfu$bru8u$1...@ID-75938.news.dfncis.de...
>
> language whenever there is a single e with no other vowels it is SILENT!
>
and
>
> I can't think of, nor do I *ever* remember seeing a word in the English
> language with an e at the end where the 'e' is pronounced. Except a few
> foreign words,
Pronounce the words "me", "he", "she."
You may have to add another exception to your rule.
eggplant107
And "ghoti" is an alternative spelling for "fish"; the word is
pronounced with the "gh" sound of "rough", the "o" sound of "women",
and the "ti" sound of "motion".
Twilight
.
.
.
I say CHIPS
Twilight
Richard Sliwa
On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:42:18 GMT, Peter Lobley borrowed Hedwig to send
the following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
> I am going to attempt to prove two things - 1. That either JK Rowling
> *herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
> therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't
> "let it go".
Well, taking your points in turn:
1. "Hermione" has only ever had one pronunciation in English (hint: it's
not your chosen one). It *is* a foreign word (Greek), but why does that
necessarily make it "stupid"?
2. Your post isn't proof of pedantry, it's proof of a distinct lack of
education (including, inter alia, an ignorance of Shakespeare and Greek
mythology), not to mention incredible arrogance in not accepting the
possibility that you may be wrong.
Incidentally, as you think of yourself as a pedant, I'd also advise you to
look up the spelling of the possessive of "who":
"Who's" is an abbreviation of "who is/ who was".
"Whose" is the possessive of "who", eg: "a person whose IQ can be counted
in single digits"
> I always pronounced Hermione as 'Hermeeown' I had no doubt that this
> was how it was pronounced.
On what is your certainty based? Your education? You've already shown it to
be lacking.
> There is a *single* vowel - 'e' at the end of 'Hermione. In the
> English language whenever there is a single e with no other vowels it
> is SILENT!
<snip>
> I can't think of, nor do I *ever* remember seeing a word in the English
> language with an e at the end where the 'e' is pronounced. Except a few
> foreign words, and even those are a matter of opinion - (porsche is
> sometimes pronounced 'porshe', usualy by annoying types. but most
> common sense people pronounce it 'porsh'). This would suggest that
> Hermione is foreign but that it is still valid to pronounce it
> 'hermeeown'. (however I think it is rare for an English family [the
> grangers for example] to give their child a foreign name)
"Hermione" has been a "posh" English name for centuries. You're quite
obviously not "posh" and don't know any "posh" people. Not only that, but
you've probably never even *heard of* any "posh" people.
I suggest you look up a recent thread here, when several people (myself
included) came up with lots of words which don't fit that paradigm. The
thread started off with a discussion about Cedric, but from this post, it
changed to Hermione:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl3064432890d&hl=en&selm=F99U7.39830%2
44e3.4874749%40news6-win.server.ntlworld.com
<snip>
> if Hermione was 'herm ay own ee' would plate be 'playtee'? would
> suitcase be 'sootcaysee' would pheromone be 'pheromownee'? I don't
> think so. I suggest that Hermione be spelled differently if it *must*
> be pronounced 'herm ay own ee'...
Why? Since when are the rules of English pronunciation consistent?
> Now that I have got (not 'gotten' btw) that off my chest I can sleep at
> night.
If ignorance is bliss, then I'm sure you sleep blissfully.
Twilight
but not about our Herm
Have you noticed that most of the words that end in a single "E" which is
sounded have a greek derivation.
Calliope, Nike etc.
well, shouldn't Hagrid's three headed pooch - who was incidentaly "bought
from a greek fella" -
be written as Fluffe!!!
<G>
Twilight
Dorte Schünecke
"Peter Lobley" <lob...@freeuk.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:a65dfu$bru8u$1...@ID-75938.news.dfncis.de...
> There is a *single* vowel - 'e' at the end of 'Hermione. In the English
> language whenever there is a single e with no other vowels it is SILENT!
I'm no native speaker...
but Greek loan-words follow different rules in English, and AFAIK, Hermione
is a Greek name.
What about Psyche? Karaoke?
Philip Setnik
> *herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
> therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't "let
> it go".
This is a gag, right?
Just in case it isn't, a couple of comments:
Proper names do not always follow the same rules of pronunciation one
would expect. Names of foreign origin (ignoring as tongue-in-cheek
the comment that foreign names are "stupid") are particulary known for
this - Penelope, for example, which is of Greek origin (as is
Hermione, look it up - she was the daughter of Menelaus and Helen in
Greek mythology).
Porsche, by the way, is properly pronounced "porsh-eh" as befitting
its German origins.
Be well, and try not to take things quite so seriously, Peter.
Regards,
Phil
Gaynor Thomas
"Jaspreet" <jjo...@spamx.anotherx.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0Gsh8.9906$802.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Also,
> Extempore
> ik-'stem-p&-(")rE
Also, "anemone"
Gaynor
KUrt
wandered in with a VERY confused look on his/ her face and nattered on
about:
>I am going to attempt to prove two things - 1. That either JK Rowling
>*herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
>therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't "let
>it go".
> [Snip}
My, my. Stepped into a big pile of .... smely stuff, didn't you?
:-)
KUrt
--
"Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed." - G. K. Chesterton
-------------------
When's Book 5 out?
I read the FAQ -you can, too.
http://www.geocities.com/hpnewsgroup/faqfdq.htm
Rick Rollins
"TheCatinTX" <theca...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020306125303...@mb-ba.aol.com...
Not sure what an actroess is, but Hermione Granger is a character in the
Harry Potter world. The former actress was Hermione Gingold.
Lisa Hicks
You Know Who wrote:
>
> As Hermione herself explains to Viktor Krum in Book 4 it's pronounced
> Her-my-own-ee. End of discussion. Originally I thought it was Her-me-own,
> but then I heard Stephen Fry (who I think has a daughter called Hermione) in
> the audio books and it is pronounced Her-my-own-ee. But this just proved
> how ignorant I was.
>
Stephen Fry doesn't have kids, does he? If he does, then the IMDb
hasn't heard about them.
Lisa H
pluther
> *herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
> therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't "let
> it go".
Well, I can't comment on possibility number two, but for number 1, yeah,
I believe it is a foreign word. I've been listening to The Odyssey on tape
while driving to and from work, and there is a character mentioned in there
named Hermione (no idea how it's spelled, but the guy who reads it pronounces
it Her-my-on-nee). If I remember correctly, she's the daughter of Athena.
> I always pronounced Hermione as 'Hermeeown' I had no doubt that this was
> how it was pronounced. Then one day I came across a debate in this
> newsgroup about how it should be pronounced and saw that people were saying
> it should be 'Herm ay on ee' (or however you want to describe the sound)
> This didn't make sense to me. I was still adamant that it was 'Hermeeown'.
>
> Then the film was released and it was obvious then that JKR herself
> pronounced it 'Herm ay on ee'. This didn't change my opinion because I
> believe, being English, that I know the English language quite well. So
> here is why I believe it should be 'Hermeeown'...
There's lots of variations in pronounciation in the English language,
though. Very few, if any, rules are absolute. Just look at enough,
through, ought, and though and tell me how the "ough" combination should
be pronounced!
> There is a *single* vowel - 'e' at the end of 'Hermione. In the English
> language whenever there is a single e with no other vowels it is SILENT!
>
> pheromone - 'pheromown' (the closest word I can think of to Hermione)
> suitcase - 'sootcays'
> vase - 'vaaz' or 'vays'
> plate - 'playt'
> I can't think of, nor do I *ever* remember seeing a word in the English
> language with an e at the end where the 'e' is pronounced. Except a few
> foreign words, and even those are a matter of opinion -
What about sake, pate, and cafe? I'm sure there are many many more
imported words whose final E is pronounced. For that matter, the words
"sure" "there", and "pronounce" all break your rule below:
> The reason the 'e' is preset at the end of lots of words is because, as I
> learned in English at school, (I remember this because it seemed silly at
> the time) it is the 'magic e' this means that although it is silent, it
> has the ability to alter the pronounciation of preceding letters.
>
> the e in pheromone turns it from 'pheromon' to 'pheromown'
> the e in plane turns it from 'plan' to 'playn'
> the e in suitcase turns it from 'suitcas' to 'suitcays'
> the e in vase turs it from 'vas' to 'vazz' or 'vays'
> the e in place turns it from 'plac' to playse' or 'plase' (it changes the c
> from a 'k' sound to a 's' sound)
>
> the e in Hermione turns it from 'hermayon' to 'Hermeeown'.
>
> if Hermione was 'herm ay own ee' would plate be 'playtee'? would suitcase
> be 'sootcaysee' would pheromone be 'pheromownee'? I don't think so. I
> suggest that Hermione be spelled differently if it *must* be pronounced
> 'herm ay own ee'...
>
> Hermionie or Hermionee, Hermiony. They make a hell of a lot more sense as
> being pronounced 'herm ay own ee'
They would. But since when does English pronunciation make any sense? :-)
> Now that I have got (not 'gotten' btw) that off my chest I can sleep at
> night.
Well, that's good at least. Now, don't get me started on spelling. :-)
--
Pat Luther -- pluther at usa dot net -- http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~pluther
"I before E except after C, or when sounding like A as in Neighbor
and Weigh, or in a few other Weird words"
zach
> *herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
> therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't "let
> it go".
>
> I always pronounced Hermione as 'Hermeeown' I had no doubt that this was
> how it was pronounced. Then one day I came across a debate in this
> newsgroup about how it should be pronounced and saw that people were saying
> it should be 'Herm ay on ee' (or however you want to describe the sound)
> This didn't make sense to me. I was still adamant that it was 'Hermeeown'.
You're pedantic, but not quite enough. Calliope, the Greek muse of
poetry, is pronounced in the same manner that JKR pronounces
Hermione's name, though the alternative pronunciation is also
acceptable, at least according to my American (Webster's) dictionary.
I'll always fall back on my 1st grade teacher's admonition: names
don't obey The Rules. I mean, look at French names!.
Btw- I pronounce it like you, even though I know better. Having been
taught to read by phonic method, I can't help it.
Maya
"You Know Who" <webm...@planetpotter.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a65k8c$n8h$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
> As Hermione herself explains to Viktor Krum in Book 4 it's pronounced
> Her-my-own-ee. End of discussion. Originally I thought it was
Her-me-own,
> but then I heard Stephen Fry (who I think has a daughter called Hermione)
in
> the audio books and it is pronounced Her-my-own-ee. But this just proved
> how ignorant I was.
Yup, me too! I went to school with a girl called Hermione (who pronounced
it Her-me-own) so automatically I assumed the Hermione in the book
pronounced it the same way. I continued to pronounce it that way until I
read GoF, when I started to pronounce it Her-my-owe-nee. I guess it just
depends on how the individual says it (or rather, how their parents
pronounced it when they gave their child the name!)
With a name like mine, I get it written and pronounced a variety of
different ways, but the way I spell and pronounce it is correct (for me).
I've had it spelled Maia, Maja, Mya Majha, Mia, Myer and even Myra (and
people normally pronounce it May-ya.....grrrrr.....why can't people just get
my name the first time and remember it?!)
Just my tuppence worth!
Maya (pronounced My-ah, as in the writer Maya Angelou)
x
You Know Who
--
You Know Who
Webmaster
http://www.planetpotter.co.uk
"Lisa Hicks" <lhh...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:3C866F3D...@midway.uchicago.edu...
Shadow
"Peter Lobley" <lob...@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:a65dfu$bru8u$1...@ID-75938.news.dfncis.de...
> *herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
> therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't
"let
> it go".
I'm going with option "B" and just not reading any further. I urge others to
do the same.
--
Shadow
When's Book 5 Out?
NEVER! BWAHAHAHAHA!
TimRegan
"Peter Lobley" <lob...@freeuk.com> wrote ...
> JK Rowling *herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty
I'm English too and pronounce it 'Herm ay on ee'. Surely it's from
Greek mythology? See (for example)
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/ent/A0823499.html
Cheers,
Tim.
Twilight
"zach" <victorth...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:f7fbe28c.02030...@posting.google.com...
> don't obey The Rules. I mean, look at French names!.
and wat ees rong wiz see French names?
You weesh ze pistolet at Dawn, Mon Ami!!!
Twilight (or maybe that should be Crepuscule)- With a final silent "e" ;-)
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>*herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
>therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't "let
>it go".
Hermione isn't an English name, but I digress.
Hermione Gingold and Hermione Baddeley, who appeared in Mary Poppins together
and lots of other films separately, also pronounced their names
"Her-MY-oh-nee".
Fab
http://www.laughingplace.com
Sometimes you eat the bear; sometimes the bear eats you - but always dress for
the hunt! ~Hathaway Browne
Favorite of 100 Mickeys: 006
The Fabulous Disney Babe
Hermione
Persephone
The Fabulous Disney Babe
Nope, Hermione Gingold.
The Fabulous Disney Babe
Matthew Persico
"The Fabulous Disney Babe" <dscve...@aol.comFabulous> wrote in message
news:20020306185149...@mb-mv.aol.com...
> >>There was once a well known English comedic actress named Hermione
Gringold.
> >
> >Even this Yank remembers her, and that she pronounced her
> >own name "Her - my' - oh - nee".
>
> >I believe that actroess was Hermione Granger, but nevertheless... your
point
> >about how she pronounced her name is correct.
>
> Nope, Hermione Gingold.
She was the maid on Maude, right?
Seems to me it should be pronounced Her-moyn, but hey, whadda expect from a
guy born in da bronx, ey? oh! badda bing, badda boom.
:-)
Sagebrush
I've heard J. K. speak the name Hermoine and I hear it as
Her-My-Knee which is, as far as I'm concerned, is the way it
should be pronounced.
Sagebrush
Lisa Hicks
Matthew Persico wrote:
>
> "The Fabulous Disney Babe" <dscve...@aol.comFabulous> wrote in message
> news:20020306185149...@mb-mv.aol.com...
> > >>There was once a well known English comedic actress named Hermione
> Gringold.
> > >
> > >Even this Yank remembers her, and that she pronounced her
> > >own name "Her - my' - oh - nee".
> >
> > >I believe that actroess was Hermione Granger, but nevertheless... your
> point
> > >about how she pronounced her name is correct.
> >
> > Nope, Hermione Gingold.
>
> She was the maid on Maude, right?
>
> Seems to me it should be pronounced Her-moyn, but hey, whadda expect from a
> guy born in da bronx, ey? oh! badda bing, badda boom.
>
> :-)
I had some friends who thought it should be "her-MOYN" (like the last
syllable of "Des Moines"); that would make sense if the "o" came before
the "i," but I could never see it for an "io" word.
Lisa H
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>
>She was the maid on Maude, right?
I forget. She was one of the maids in Mary Poppins, that I know.
Bill Clark
lacunae
> >> Nope, Hermione Gingold.
> >
> >She was the maid on Maude, right?
>
> I forget. She was one of the maids in Mary Poppins, that I know.
don't remember either of those (as haven't watched mary poppins
in ages, and maude being a bit before my time & seemingly not
in reruns)
however, she was memorable in Gigi (playing Leslie Caron's grandmother)
Yensid Retlaw
<lob...@freeuk.com> writes:
>I am going to attempt to prove two things - 1. That either JK Rowling
>*herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
>therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't "let
>it go".
>
1. The name is not totally foreign (someone said it is of Greek origin), and
is pronounced "Her-my-oh-nee". The late, great actress, Hermione Baddeley
(Ellen in "Mary Poppins", & Mrs. Worth in "The Happiest Millionaire" are the
roles I remember her in the best) pronounced her name "Her-my-oh-nee" and she
was most definitely English (born in Broseley, Shropshire, England, UK
according to the IMDB.)
English is a most peculiar language, in that most of the rules of pronunciation
have lots of exceptions. Also, when it comes to names, pronunciation and
spelling are totally at the parents' discretion. I have a neice named Megan
(May-gun) and a boss named Megan (Mee-gun). If JKR named the character, she
has the final say in how it should be pronounced. In GoF she tells us exactly
how she intends the name to be pronounced, when, at the Yule Ball, Hermione
tells Viktor Krum that her name is pronounced "Her-my-oh-nee".
2. Yes, you probably are. Sit down, put your feet up, close your eyes, take
several deep breaths and let them out slowly....you should feel better now...
Yensid Retlaw
Order Of Merlin First Class, International Confederation Of Wizards, currently
Professor Of Defense Against The Dark Arts, Hogwarts School Of Witchcraft And
Wizardry
garner
> "Peter Lobley" <lob...@freeuk.com> wrote in message
> news:a65dfu$bru8u$1...@ID-75938.news.dfncis.de...
> > *herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
> > therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't
> "let
> > it go".
> >
was
> > how it was pronounced. Then one day I came across a debate in this
> > newsgroup about how it should be pronounced and saw that people were
> saying
> > it should be 'Herm ay on ee' (or however you want to describe the sound)
> > This didn't make sense to me. I was still adamant that it was
'Hermeeown'.
> >
>
> I'm not English, nor is English my native tongue. I'd be interested in
> knowing your thoughts on the pronunciation of
> "Nike" and "Adobe" both of which have their last 'e' pronounced as
> Hermione's last 'e'.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
Or simile, facsimile, for that matter.
TheCatinTX
>Gingold (I put in an extra 'r').
You're absolutely correct of course, I've been Potterized and can't think
straight!
cassandra
"Peter Lobley" <lob...@freeuk.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
a65dfu$bru8u$1...@ID-75938.news.dfncis.de...
> I am going to attempt to prove two things - 1. That either JK Rowling
> *herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
> therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't
"let
> it go".
>
> I always pronounced Hermione as 'Hermeeown' I had no doubt that this was
> how it was pronounced. Then one day I came across a debate in this
> newsgroup about how it should be pronounced and saw that people were
saying
> it should be 'Herm ay on ee' (or however you want to describe the sound)
> This didn't make sense to me. I was still adamant that it was 'Hermeeown'.
>
> pronounced it 'Herm ay on ee'. This didn't change my opinion because I
> believe, being English, that I know the English language quite well. So
> here is why I believe it should be 'Hermeeown'...
>
> language whenever there is a single e with no other vowels it is SILENT!
>
> pheromone - 'pheromown' (the closest word I can think of to Hermione)
> suitcase - 'sootcays'
> vase - 'vaaz' or 'vays'
> plate - 'playt'
>
> I can't think of, nor do I *ever* remember seeing a word in the English
> language with an e at the end where the 'e' is pronounced. Except a few
> sometimes pronounced 'porshe', usualy by annoying types. but most common
> sense people pronounce it 'porsh'). This would suggest that Hermione is
> foreign but that it is still valid to pronounce it 'hermeeown'. (however I
> think it is rare for an English family [the grangers for example] to give
> their child a foreign name)
>
> The reason the 'e' is preset at the end of lots of words is because, as I
> learned in English at school, (I remember this because it seemed silly at
> the time) it is the 'magic e' this means that although it is silent, it
> has the ability to alter the pronounciation of preceding letters.
>
> the e in pheromone turns it from 'pheromon' to 'pheromown'
> the e in plane turns it from 'plan' to 'playn'
> the e in suitcase turns it from 'suitcas' to 'suitcays'
> the e in vase turs it from 'vas' to 'vazz' or 'vays'
> the e in place turns it from 'plac' to playse' or 'plase' (it changes the
c
> from a 'k' sound to a 's' sound)
>
> the e in Hermione turns it from 'hermayon' to 'Hermeeown'.
>
> if Hermione was 'herm ay own ee' would plate be 'playtee'? would suitcase
> be 'sootcaysee' would pheromone be 'pheromownee'? I don't think so. I
> suggest that Hermione be spelled differently if it *must* be pronounced
> 'herm ay own ee'...
>
> Hermionie or Hermionee, Hermiony. They make a hell of a lot more sense
as
> being pronounced 'herm ay own ee'
>
I have a kind of memory that JKR herself said it is prononced "hermi-own"
like you say, which would be the logical prononciation and apparently the
film took a strange way of prononcing it "her-mi-onee" which really amazed
me... even if I am not englishspeaking... very strange, yes, because final
"e" usually is not prononced like that specially when it should be mute (in
French we say 'Hermi-own', final 'e' being mute here, and the 'o' short and
opened)
So I think it is in the film they are wrong and not JKR... as long as you
didn't here JKR prononounce in the way they do in the film...?
Peter Lobley
"Jaspreet" <jjo...@spamx.anotherx.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Aerh8.9717$802.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> "Peter Lobley" <lob...@freeuk.com> wrote in message
> > I am going to attempt to prove two things - 1. That either JK Rowling
> > *herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
> > therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't
> "let
> > it go".
> >
> > I always pronounced Hermione as 'Hermeeown' I had no doubt that this
was
> > how it was pronounced. Then one day I came across a debate in this
> > newsgroup about how it should be pronounced and saw that people were
> saying
> > it should be 'Herm ay on ee' (or however you want to describe the sound)
> > This didn't make sense to me. I was still adamant that it was
'Hermeeown'.
> >
>
> I'm not English, nor is English my native tongue. I'd be interested in
> knowing your thoughts on the pronunciation of
> "Nike" and "Adobe" both of which have their last 'e' pronounced as
> Hermione's last 'e'.
'Nayk' and 'adowb'
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
Peter Lobley
"Dizzeey" <diz...@aol.comnoway> wrote in message
news:20020306123526...@mb-ba.aol.com...
> >I can't think of, nor do I *ever* remember seeing a word in the English
> >language with an e at the end where the 'e' is pronounced.
>
>
> Main Entry: cal·li·ope
> Pronunciation: k&-'lI-&-(")pE, in sense 2 also 'ka-lE-"Op
> Function: noun
> Etymology: Latin, from Greek KalliopE
> 1 : capitalized : the Greek Muse of heroic poetry
> 2 : a keyboard musical instrument resembling an organ and consisting of a
> series of whistles sounded by steam or compressed air
>
>
>
> *shrug*
foreign. I did say foreign words are the exception didn't I?
Peter Lobley
"Peter Lobley" <lob...@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:a65dfu$bru8u$1...@ID-75938.news.dfncis.de...
<snip it all cos I said it>
from the answers I've seen it looks like few people have actually read my
post.
some saying "it IS herm ay own ee" which is invalid because I admitted that
it was (sort of)
some giving me examples of words with e at the end wich is ALSO invalid
because they are simply examples of either foreign and/or words who's
pronunciation is a matter of opinion - WHICH I MENTIONED. (i.e. nike can be
'nayk')
some quoting words that turn out to be foreign. Which I also covered in my
post.
Too many to reply to individually (most of my replies these days to replies
of my own posts are because people didn't read the original post properly so
I get kind of fed up doing it) so I composed this one and changed the
subject. if that causes your primitive newsgroup reader to seperate it from
the rest then tell me.
Dominic Hargreaves
> You say Po - ta to, He say Po - tay - to..
> .
> .
> .
> I say CHIPS
With cheese. Mmmmm.
--
Dominic Hargreaves | http://dom.magd.ox.ac.uk/
Sirius Black
> "Dizzeey" <diz...@aol.comnoway> wrote in message
> news:20020306123526...@mb-ba.aol.com...
> > >I can't think of, nor do I *ever* remember seeing a word in the English
> > >language with an e at the end where the 'e' is pronounced.
> >
> >
> > Calliope... [quotes English Dictionary]>
>
> foreign. I did say foreign words are the exception didn't I?
You are so funny. Dizzeey got that out of an English dictionary. Calliope has
been anglicised already, and its anglicised pronunciation has four vowels:
viz., a (schwa), i (long i as in ice), o (long o as in oat) and e (long e as in
eel); that set of vowels is unique to the English pronunciation of Calliope.
Hermione works similarly, except the first vowel is different [in most
dialects]. If there be any contention about the pronunciation, I think it
should be whether you say her-MY-o-nee, hair-MY-o-nee, or maybe even
air-MY-o-nee, but probably the same as your pronunciation of Hermes (now why is
that second e long? same reason as Hermione--it comes from Greek eta).
Some literature uses a diaeresis over the e to show that it is pronounced: so
Bronte, Terpsichore, Hermione, could be written as Brontë, Terpsichorë,
Hermionë, but since diaereses take effort to put in there on English keyboards,
writers typically leave out the optional, yet helpful, diacritical mark. I
think Hermionë is a rather learnèd [ooh-another diacritical mark] girl and will
decide to use the diaeresis when writing her name; when people ask why, it will
give her opportunity to say "So you'll pronounce my name correctly, ninny."
[JKR, are you listening and pick up on my suggestion there? I suppose you've
been holding up publication of your next book until you could put in some
weird, yet insignificant, quirk like this into the story.]
Along a similar vein, how do you pronounce Caesar in English? Like seizer or
Kaiser or something else? Think about the rules for anglicisation you had to
apply in the pronunciation.
R.S.Lindsay
> foreign words, and even those are a matter of opinion - (porsche is
> sometimes pronounced 'porshe', usualy by annoying types. but most common
> sense people pronounce it 'porsh'). This would suggest that Hermione is
> foreign but that it is still valid to pronounce it 'hermeeown'. (however I
> think it is rare for an English family [the grangers for example] to give
> their child a foreign name)
*I* can't think of, nor do *I* ever remember seeing a more pointless
subject for debate on this or any other message board. Who *cares*
how J.K. Rowling, or anybody else, pronounces Hermione's name? There
are other topics in "Harry Potter" that are *Much* more interesting
and worthy of discussion.
Since you're so hung up on the pronunciation of names, perhaps you'll
tell me, how do you pronounce Prince's name? Why is Ralph Fiennes
name pronounced "Ray Fines" and not "Ralph Fee-in-ess?" Why does
everyone call Regis Philbin "Regis Philbin" instead of his proper
name, "That annoying jackass?" Should we say "two plus two equals
four" or "avocado plus avocado equals guacamole?"
My advice, pal! Take two Alka-Selzer, get a few days rest at your
local paper mill, and buy yourself a pet llama. You'll feel better,
trust me.
Richard Sliwa
the following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
<snip>
>> "Nike" and "Adobe" both of which have their last 'e' pronounced as
>> Hermione's last 'e'.
>
> 'Nayk' and 'adowb'
What educated (stress on "educated") person pronounces those words that
way? None that I've ever heard of...
Jeff C
wrote:
>from the answers I've seen it looks like few people have actually read my
>post.
I did, then I wondered why.
>subject. if that causes your primitive newsgroup reader to seperate it from
>the rest then tell me.
Ah, now I know. It was to see whether you were worth reading. From the
attitude you displayed in both posts, it is obvious that you aren't.
Goodbye.
*PLONK*
Richard Sliwa
following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
<snip>
> I have a kind of memory that JKR herself said it is prononced
> "hermi-own" like you say,
I find is extremely unlikely that someone like JKR would ever pronounce it
that way. "Hermione" has only ever had one correct English pronunciation,
and JKR pronouncing it any other way would be akin to showing herself as
utterly uneducated.
> which would be the logical prononciation and
There is no global "logic" behind English pronuncation. There is an
internal logic to the way some rules are used in some circumstances, but
there is no over-all logic which applies in all cases.
> apparently the film took a strange way of prononcing it "her-mi-onee"
> which really amazed me... even if I am not englishspeaking... very
> strange, yes, because final "e" usually is not prononced like that
> specially when it should be mute (in French we say 'Hermi-own', final
> 'e' being mute here, and the 'o' short and opened)
> So I think it is in the film they are wrong and not JKR... as long as
> you didn't here JKR prononounce in the way they do in the film...?
No, the film was correct. If anything, I have a *slight* gripe with the way
JKR transliterated the way Hermione pronounced her name. It's not so much
"her-MY-oh-nee" as "her-MY-er-nee", as the "oh" seems to imply that it's
quite a long syllable, when it isn't (though replacing it with "er" as I've
done is also misleading, as that can also imply that it's a long syllable,
in a different direction).
Strictly speaking, it is a short "o" sound, but most British speech
patterns would make it into the sound Rupert and Dan make in the movie.
Even the British aristicracy and their rounded vowels would be hard-pressed
to pronounce it any other way.
That is a problem with transliterating *any* English pronunciation: as
there are no rules, the only real way to do it is to use the International
Phonetic Alphabet, but then extremely few non-semiologists have any idea
how to read it, so using it in a kids' book (!) is out of the question.
As a matter of interest, I'm curious how the translations deal with the
whole episode of Hermione teaching Krum how to pronounce her name, as other
languages don't necessarily use arcane rules for this parciular word, and
thus the whole notion of mis-pronunciation doesn't even arise.
Trond Michelsen
> As a matter of interest, I'm curious how the translations deal with the
> whole episode of Hermione teaching Krum how to pronounce her name, as other
> languages don't necessarily use arcane rules for this parciular word, and
> thus the whole notion of mis-pronunciation doesn't even arise.
I'll check when I get back home, but I seem to remember that it was a
bit clumsy in the Norwegian translation. In the Norwegian books,
Hermione is named "Hermine", which is really easy to pronounce in
Norwegian.
--
tm
Richard Sliwa
the following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
> I think Hermionë is a rather
> learnèd [ooh-another diacritical mark] girl and will decide to use the
> diaeresis when writing her name; when people ask why, it will give her
> opportunity to say "So you'll pronounce my name correctly, ninny."
> [JKR, are you listening and pick up on my suggestion there? I suppose
> you've been holding up publication of your next book until you could
> put in some weird, yet insignificant, quirk like this into the story.]
err... Yes, the diaeresis is used on occasion in English, but it has (to my
knowledge), never been applied to Hermione, Caliope, or most other Greek
proper names (though it is applied to some - hey, nobody ever claimed
English spelling was logicial!). Brontë (as in the writing sisters),
however, is usually written *with* the diaeresis.
> Along a similar vein, how do you pronounce Caesar in English? Like
> seizer or Kaiser or something else? Think about the rules for
> anglicisation you had to apply in the pronunciation.
The usual modern pronunciation is "seizer", but this was not always the
case. In the (distant) past, "Keezer" was also used. Like most languages,
English has its fashions, but "seizer" is probably here to stay (together
with most modern pronunciation of Latin words), because of the
proliferation over the last couple of centuries of dictionaries and other
guides to speech.
Richard Sliwa
following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
<snip>
> Why is Ralph Fiennes
> name pronounced "Ray Fines" and not "Ralph Fee-in-ess?"
err... it's not "Ray", it's "Rafe" (the fact that his surname begins with
an F means that it's difficult to hear the last "f" of his first name
sometimes).
Pronouncing "Ralph" as "Rafe" is a British upper-class affectation that's
been around for donkeys' years and nothing will change it.
> Why does
> everyone call Regis Philbin "Regis Philbin" instead of his proper
> name, "That annoying jackass?"
WTF is Regis Philbin? Then again, I suppose most British celebrities are
unknown on the US side of the Atlantic...
Richard Sliwa
the following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
> from the answers I've seen it looks like few people have actually read
> my post.
On the contrary, it looks like you haven't read (or understood) most of the
replies.
> some saying "it IS herm ay own ee" which is invalid because I admitted
> that it was (sort of)
There's no "sort of" about it. That is the correct English pronunication.
On both sides of the Atlantic. There is no other. Period.
> some giving me examples of words with e at the end wich is ALSO invalid
> because they are simply examples of either foreign and/or words who's
> pronunciation is a matter of opinion - WHICH I MENTIONED. (i.e. nike
> can be 'nayk')
Pronunciation is *always* a matter of opinion. The only issue is whose
opinion counts as far as what is generally accepted - in order to
communicate, which is one of the purposes of having names in the first
place, it's important that people have *some* accepted standards. I hate to
burst your bubble, but you don't set the standards of English
pronunciation. Several centuries of development of this language do, and
you're in a minority.
Nobody who's actually clued-up about the English language and how to
pronounce it would seriously consider for a moment pronouncing "Nike" other
than the way it is generall accepted that it should be pronounced.
> some quoting words that turn out to be foreign. Which I also covered
> in my post.
Well, you said that being foreign, it's "stupid". I asked you to explain
your rationale for that statement.
Besides, do you have *any* idea of how modern English developed and what
percentage of English words are "foreign"? I suggest you find out. You
might discover something new.
> Too many to reply to individually (most of my replies these days to
> replies of my own posts are because people didn't read the original
> post properly so I get kind of fed up doing it) so I composed this one
> and changed the subject. if that causes your primitive newsgroup
> reader to seperate it from the rest then tell me.
You could at least have replied to one or two of the more substantive
replies which actually took you to task over your assumptions and display
of absolute ignorance of what you were taking about, though...
Or do you *REALLY* want to have the same conversation all over again?
Cat
>unknown on the US side of the Atlantic...
>
Regis Philbin , is an american,....something....,
watch one ( if you watch more than one you will lose one point of IQ for each
sucsessive) one episode of who wants to be a millionare
Cat
who will someday eat Regis Philbin's heart
six strings , 2 swords and A LOT of leather , ....it don't get any better than
this.
Richard Sliwa
following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
>>WTF is Regis Philbin? Then again, I suppose most British celebrities
>>are unknown on the US side of the Atlantic...
>>
>
> Regis Philbin , is an american,....something....,
> watch one ( if you watch more than one you will lose one point of IQ
> for each sucsessive) one episode of who wants to be a millionare
Ahh... I thought I recognised the name from somewhere...
So, I take it he's even more annoying than our own dear Chris Tarrant?
(who?, I hear our American cousins ask). :-)
(BTW I've just updated my news reader software to the latest version and my
editing window has a different appearance - I wonder if this post itself
will look any different from my old style; apart from the .sig, of
course...?)
--
Richard Sliwa
http://plum.cream.org/HP/
Twilight
"Richard Sliwa" <ju...@plum.cream.org> wrote in message
news:Xns91CA885...@195.8.68.217...
> >
> > 'Nayk' and 'adowb'
>
> What educated (stress on "educated") person pronounces those words that
> way? None that I've ever heard of...
>
It's nothing to do with education.
I've heard of a Creche described as two cars colliding in Knightsbridge.
Okay, Yah!
Twilight, of the Rochester Twilights (Dontcha Know)
Pluto (M)
> I am going to attempt to prove two things - 1. That either JK Rowling
> *herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
> therefore stupid) word. and 2. That I am a pedantic sod who's ego won't "let
> it go".
>
> I always pronounced Hermione as 'Hermeeown' I had no doubt that this was
> how it was pronounced. Then one day I came across a debate in this
> newsgroup about how it should be pronounced and saw that people were saying
> it should be 'Herm ay on ee' (or however you want to describe the sound)
> This didn't make sense to me. I was still adamant that it was 'Hermeeown'.
>
> pronounced it 'Herm ay on ee'. This didn't change my opinion because I
> believe, being English, that I know the English language quite well. So
> here is why I believe it should be 'Hermeeown'...
>
> There is a *single* vowel - 'e' at the end of 'Hermione. In the English
> language whenever there is a single e with no other vowels it is SILENT!
>
> pheromone - 'pheromown' (the closest word I can think of to Hermione)
> suitcase - 'sootcays'
> vase - 'vaaz' or 'vays'
> plate - 'playt'
>
> language with an e at the end where the 'e' is pronounced. Except a few
> foreign words, and even those are a matter of opinion - (porsche is
> sometimes pronounced 'porshe', usualy by annoying types. but most common
> sense people pronounce it 'porsh'). This would suggest that Hermione is
> foreign but that it is still valid to pronounce it 'hermeeown'. (however I
> think it is rare for an English family [the grangers for example] to give
> their child a foreign name)
Porsche is italian. The word is not Porsh, nor is it Porsha. It is Porsh-ay.
And there is another name with an e at the end where the e is pronounced. Chloe.
Clow-y.
Richard Sliwa
following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
<snip>
> It's nothing to do with education.
> I've heard of a Creche described as two cars colliding in Knightsbridge.
Very amusing.:-)
OK then: How do Mr and Mrs Featherstonehaugh from Knightsbridge pronounce
their name? This is not a joke, but a true, living example of how silly
English rules of pronunciation and spelling can get, especially with the
Upper Classes, which is where the Featherstonehaughs belong.
Answer below - I've used that example before, so it may not be news to
everyone here.
Fanshaw
Swan & Rat
> There is a *single* vowel - 'e' at the end of 'Hermione. In the English
> language whenever there is a single e with no other vowels it is SILENT!
>
> pheromone - 'pheromown' (the closest word I can think of to Hermione)
> suitcase - 'sootcays'
> vase - 'vaaz' or 'vays'
> plate - 'playt'
>
> I can't think of, nor do I *ever* remember seeing a word in the English
> language with an e at the end where the 'e' is pronounced. Except a few
> foreign words, and even those are a matter of opinion - (porsche is
> sometimes pronounced 'porshe', usualy by annoying types. but most common
> sense people pronounce it 'porsh'). This would suggest that Hermione is
> foreign but that it is still valid to pronounce it 'hermeeown'. (however I
> think it is rare for an English family [the grangers for example] to give
> their child a foreign name)
Abalone "Ah-bah-LOW-nee"
Nike "NY-kee"
Persephone "per-SEFF-oh-nee"
Toblerone "TOH-bler-OH-neh"
Corleone "KOR-lee-oh-nee"
Phoebe "FEE-bee"
Phoenix "FEE-nix (e is long and cancels out the 'o'
among other examples.
> the e in Hermione turns it from 'hermayon' to 'Hermeeown'.
>
> if Hermione was 'herm ay own ee' would plate be 'playtee'? would suitcase
> be 'sootcaysee' would pheromone be 'pheromownee'? I don't think so. I
> suggest that Hermione be spelled differently if it *must* be pronounced
> 'herm ay own ee'...
But many words with the same spelling are pronounced differently by
usage:
Bough "bow" rhymes with now
Rough "ruff" rhymes with puff
Cough "koff" rhymes with soft
Through "throo" rhymes with who
thought "thawt' rhymes with hot
Drought "Draft... drowt" rhyming with either shaft or mouth
Thorough "To-roh" rhymes with more oh
Borough "burrow" rhymes with fur-oh
Need I go on?
The name is Greek in origin. It means 'Dedicated to Hermes" (HER-meez)
the god of wisdom, learning, literature and education. An appropriate
name for her.
Swan
Swan & Rat
NIke is Greek, the goddess of victory and is pronounced "nye-kee" to
rhyme with Mikie or Mikey.
Adobe is an ancient Egyptian word (Atupai) meraning 'mud' and was
rendered 'adobe' in either Latin or Spanish. It's pronounced
"ah-DOH-bee" to rhyme with glad oh bee.
Swan
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>like you say, which would be the logical prononciation and apparently the
>film took a strange way of prononcing it
From
Harry
Potter
and
the
Goblet
of
Fire
(spoiler
space)
Hermione was now teaching Krum to say her name properly; he kept calling her
"Hermy-own."
"Her-my-oh-nee," she said slowly and clearly.
Fab
http://www.laughingplace.com
Sometimes you eat the bear; sometimes the bear eats you - but always dress for
the hunt! ~Hathaway Browne
Favorite of 100 Mickeys: 006
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>post.
But those words have an identical origin, so the point is valid.
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>
salsa, baby!
Swan & Rat
Ariadne "AIR-ee-AD-nee"
Bocce "BOTCH-ee"
Chloe "KLO-ee"
Dore "Doh-RAY"
et cetera...
Swan
LaughSong
> I am going to attempt to prove two things - 1. That either JK Rowling
> *herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
> therefore stupid) word.
It is, in fact, from Greek. That does not make it stupid. I might
understand that opinion if the name came from French.
And by the way, ever hear of Hermione Gringold, the English-born
actress? http://us.imdb.com/Name?Gingold,+Hermione
-LaughSong
Chris Keating
> On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:40:06 GMT, Twilight borrowed Hedwig to send the
> following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
>
> <snip>
>
> > It's nothing to do with education.
> > I've heard of a Creche described as two cars colliding in Knightsbridge.
>
> Very amusing.:-)
>
> OK then: How do Mr and Mrs Featherstonehaugh from Knightsbridge pronounce
> their name? This is not a joke, but a true, living example of how silly
> English rules of pronunciation and spelling can get, especially with the
> Upper Classes, which is where the Featherstonehaughs belong.
Another is Capt. Mainwairing from Dad's Army - pronounced Mannering. Or
Urquhuat (sp?) pronounced Urkwhat.
Chris Keating
Me - it seemed the natural way to do it. After all, Adobe sounds very
similar to Abode...
However, I'm quite convinced that JKR's version of Hermione is correct. Both
my mother and grandmother agree on this.
I think it's a greek thing (no, not fraternities - Athenians! Socrates and
that crowd!) Nike (or for that matter Athene) were Greek goddesses and
received pronunciation of Greek usually has last e's being sounded.
Presumably adobe follows because, erm, adobe was a Mediterranean posh thing?
Chris
Chris Keating
from a
> > guy born in da bronx, ey? oh! badda bing, badda boom.
> >
> > :-)
>
> I had some friends who thought it should be "her-MOYN" (like the last
> syllable of "Des Moines"); that would make sense if the "o" came before
> the "i," but I could never see it for an "io" word.
My American cousins assume it's Herm - ee - won. Yes, as in "Hermione
Kenobi, you are my only hope... Hermione Kenobi, you are my only hope"
Chris Keating
> foreign. I did say foreign words are the exception didn't I?
>
All these examples are perfectly good English words which have simply been
pillaged from other languages over the generations.
Chris
Chris Keating
Porsh-ay.
Ummm. everyone I know says Porsh.
CDriver333
>> language whenever there is a single e with no other vowels it is SILENT!
What about "sea anemone"? It's pronounced "an-em-on-e"!
Cat
>
>Chris
Adobe is the spanish translation of a native american tribe , the style of
construction was named after them ,
Adobe, they were considered among the highest develpoed primitive potters.
though I am not sure any of them were particularly Hirsuite
Cat
Lisa Hicks
How does one pronounce "Featherstonehaugh"? I've seen the name in a
series of novels, and I assumed that it was pronounced just like it
looks: Feather + stone + ha(w).
Lisa H
Chris Share
>I am going to attempt to prove two things - 1. That either JK Rowling
>*herself* pronounced Hermione incorrecty or that it is a foreign (and
>it go".
>
>Now that I have got (not 'gotten' btw) that off my chest I can sleep at
>night.
Oh come on. English is about the most irregular language there is, with
words nicked from tons of other languages. In this case, Greek. Her-my-
oh-nee.
If you know english as well as you should do, living in this country,
then you should know that there are *no* rules in the english language.
Merely some trends that work in the majority of cases.
chris
Chris Share
>
>"zach" <victorth...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>news:f7fbe28c.02030...@posting.google.com...
>> don't obey The Rules. I mean, look at French names!.
>Sacre Bleu!! Un Insulte!!
>and wat ees rong wiz see French names?
>You weesh ze pistolet at Dawn, Mon Ami!!!
>
>Twilight (or maybe that should be Crepuscule)- With a final silent "e" ;-)
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!
Sorry, just had to... :)
chris
Chris Share
>>> There is a *single* vowel - 'e' at the end of 'Hermione. In the English
>>> language whenever there is a single e with no other vowels it is SILENT!
>
>What about "sea anemone"? It's pronounced "an-em-on-e"!
I thought it was pronounced "With friends like that, who needs
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<bash bash><more random screaming>"
:)
chris
Nicolaas Hawkins
"Chris Share" <ch...@caesium.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.16f26e2e5...@news.cis.dfn.de...
[He only does the <bash bash> bit coz it feels so good when he stops, folks]
--
- NRPH
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>Kenobi, you are my only hope... Hermione Kenobi, you are my only hope"
This American knew it was "Her-MY-oh-nee" right off, because she was a Lit
major!
Richard Sliwa
following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
>
>
> Chris Keating wrote:
>>
>> "Richard Sliwa" <ju...@plum.cream.org> wrote in message
>> news:Xns91CABBD...@195.8.68.215...
>> > OK then: How do Mr and Mrs Featherstonehaugh from Knightsbridge
>> > pronounce their name? This is not a joke, but a true, living
>> > example of how silly English rules of pronunciation and spelling
>> > can get, especially with the Upper Classes, which is where the
>> > Featherstonehaughs belong.
>>
>> Another is Capt. Mainwairing from Dad's Army - pronounced Mannering.
>> Or Urquhuat (sp?) pronounced Urkwhat.
>
> How does one pronounce "Featherstonehaugh"? I've seen the name in a
> series of novels, and I assumed that it was pronounced just like it
> looks: Feather + stone + ha(w).
*sigh*
The answer was in my original post, two messages ago...
"Fanshaw".
Dan Kolb
<ch...@caesium.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time-a.
(okay, I couldn't resist either).
Dan
--
dan...@ox.compsoc.net
Join #harrypotter on irc.nexusirc.org - we need more people in the
channel
Radek
<snip>
> As a matter of interest, I'm curious how the translations deal with the
> whole episode of Hermione teaching Krum how to pronounce her name, as other
> languages don't necessarily use arcane rules for this parciular word, and
> thus the whole notion of mis-pronunciation doesn't even arise.
They just correct a foreigner, who is mispronouncing a name because he
does not speak the language perfectly. In Czech she says "not
Hermjona, but Hermiona".
The real problem in the book is that there is no reason for Krum to
mispronounce the name, since he never had to deal with its written
form. Hermione had been obviously introduced to him (or she had
introduced herself), and the only thing he had to do was repeat the
sound.
It would make more sense if she had to correct another Hogwarts
student reading a name list or something of that sort. Now, that would
be a tough one to translate.
Funny no one has mentioned Mr. Raymond Luxury Yacht, who is in fact
pronounced Throatwarbler Mangrove.
Radek
Pluto (M)
"Chris Keating" <cj...@nospcam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:a68s25$32d$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
> > Porsche is italian. The word is not Porsh, nor is it Porsha. It is
> Porsh-ay.
>
> Ummm. everyone I know says Porsh.
So does half the country. The rest of the country says porsha. They're all
wrong. That is improper italian.
Rick Rollins
"Radek" <r_ad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8e808aed.02030...@posting.google.com...
> Richard Sliwa <ju...@plum.cream.org> wrote in message
news:<Xns91CA8CC...@195.8.68.215>...
>
> <snip>
>
> > As a matter of interest, I'm curious how the translations deal with the
> > whole episode of Hermione teaching Krum how to pronounce her name, as
other
> > languages don't necessarily use arcane rules for this parciular word,
and
> > thus the whole notion of mis-pronunciation doesn't even arise.
>
> They just correct a foreigner, who is mispronouncing a name because he
> does not speak the language perfectly. In Czech she says "not
> Hermjona, but Hermiona".
>
> The real problem in the book is that there is no reason for Krum to
> mispronounce the name, since he never had to deal with its written
> form. Hermione had been obviously introduced to him (or she had
> introduced herself), and the only thing he had to do was repeat the
> sound.
>
But even when she does correct him, he still can't get it right --
so it's not as though he originally mispronounced the name because
he read it and couldn't pronounce it. He just has trouble getting his
tongue to work right.
Also, it's possible he just saw her name written down on her homework
assignments while studying in the library. They both tended to do that,
you know.
Rick Rollins
>
> <snip it all cos I said it>
>
> from the answers I've seen it looks like few people have actually read my
> post.
>
I think all who replied read it -- they just realized you are post was
moronic.
Naminanu
>
> Funny no one has mentioned Mr. Raymond Luxury Yacht, who is in fact
> pronounced Throatwarbler Mangrove.
>
> Radek
I was gonna I was gonna I was gonna I was gonna!!
*sulking*
Will
Peter Lobley
be dumb.
But wait, I AM educated, damn. oh shit I'm doomed to pronounce words
like a twat.
"Richard Sliwa" <ju...@plum.cream.org> wrote in message
news:Xns91CA885...@195.8.68.217...
> On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:26:45 GMT, Peter Lobley borrowed Hedwig to send
> the following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
>
Peter Lobley
I bet this Jeff guy has everyone in his list. He must be a lonely guy, If
he can't cope with a bit of confrontation.
poor sad guy.
"Jeff C" <mun...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:6mre8usfii70nn48p...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 07:34:25 -0000, "Peter Lobley" <lob...@freeuk.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >from the answers I've seen it looks like few people have actually read my
> >post.
>
> I did, then I wondered why.
>
> >subject. if that causes your primitive newsgroup reader to seperate it
from
> >the rest then tell me.
>
> Ah, now I know. It was to see whether you were worth reading. From the
> attitude you displayed in both posts, it is obvious that you aren't.
> Goodbye.
>
> *PLONK*
>
Peter Lobley
> On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:34:25 GMT, Peter Lobley borrowed Hedwig to send
> the following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
>
> > from the answers I've seen it looks like few people have actually read
> > my post.
>
the
> replies.
>
> > some saying "it IS herm ay own ee" which is invalid because I admitted
> > that it was (sort of)
>
> There's no "sort of" about it. That is the correct English pronunication.
> On both sides of the Atlantic. There is no other. Period.
So not only do most people not read posts but the ones that do completely
misunderstand what they *do* read. The 'sort of' was not refering to the
truth about the word, but to my admittance of it.
try again.
>
> > some giving me examples of words with e at the end wich is ALSO invalid
> > because they are simply examples of either foreign and/or words who's
> > pronunciation is a matter of opinion - WHICH I MENTIONED. (i.e. nike
> > can be 'nayk')
>
> Pronunciation is *always* a matter of opinion. The only issue is whose
> opinion counts as far as what is generally accepted - in order to
> communicate, which is one of the purposes of having names in the first
> place, it's important that people have *some* accepted standards. I hate
to
> burst your bubble, but you don't set the standards of English
> pronunciation. Several centuries of development of this language do, and
> you're in a minority.
No bubble to burst. I don't 'make up' pronounciations of things. I hear
them like a million times by a million different people in my life and then
kind of er.. accept that as the way things are pronounced. And when a word
comes along that breaks the social rules of pronunciation (silent e) I
pronounce it using the rules until I hear otherwise.
>
> Nobody who's actually clued-up about the English language and how to
> pronounce it would seriously consider for a moment pronouncing "Nike"
other
> than the way it is generall accepted that it should be pronounced.
If you watch enough TV and films you come to the conclusion that annoying
people pronounce it 'naykee' and normal, sane, down-to-earth people
pronouncce it 'nayk'
>
> > some quoting words that turn out to be foreign. Which I also covered
> > in my post.
>
> Well, you said that being foreign, it's "stupid". I asked you to explain
> your rationale for that statement.
Just a joke mate. Do you ever watch the simpsons. Homer gets away with
calling foreigners stupid (in other ways) all the time.
>
> Besides, do you have *any* idea of how modern English developed and what
> percentage of English words are "foreign"? I suggest you find out. You
> might discover something new.
I have a hell of an idea of how English is spoken, and what the natural
'rules' of it are. I also have a general idea of which words are foreign
and how the language developed.
>
> > Too many to reply to individually (most of my replies these days to
> > replies of my own posts are because people didn't read the original
> > post properly so I get kind of fed up doing it) so I composed this one
> > and changed the subject. if that causes your primitive newsgroup
> > reader to seperate it from the rest then tell me.
>
> You could at least have replied to one or two of the more substantive
> replies which actually took you to task over your assumptions and display
> of absolute ignorance of what you were taking about, though...
I did reply to some, I left the others because as I said I was not in the
mood to correct people's incorrect understanding of my post.
I wish people would get their priorities straight and just forget this whole
thing ever happened. I posted a perfectly innocent post which was loosly
correct (incorrectness could only be pointed out by over-prioritising the
rules, giving minority examples, and generaly ignoring the essence of the
post - which was about generaly accepted rules (e being silent at the end of
words) not about pedantic nit-picky exceptions to those rules) People
replied with snobby responses to boost their ego. Why should I reply to
everything. Why should I be civilized. My original post was not aimed at
anyone in particular, it was not an attack on anyone here. There was
nothing wrong with it that people with real-life priorities and behaviour
could point out. In real life conversation it is only the snide nit-picky
pedants who point out similar errors in what people say.
>
> Or do you *REALLY* want to have the same conversation all over again?
Peter Lobley
"Rick Rollins" <REMOVEr...@pronetisp.netREMOVE> wrote in message
news:u8hukdt...@corp.supernews.com...
My sentences made sense. Yours doesn't. "you are post was moronic"
I think it is obvious who is the moron here (in more ways than one).>
Lisa Hicks
(snip)
I think Krum might have seen Hermione's name in print first. If he
didn't meet her until after the first Rita Skeeter article--the one that
was supposed to be about all of the Champions but was really only about
Harry and mentioned that he spent a lot of his time with this "stunning
Muggle-born girl" named Hermione--he might have seen her name in the
paper, gotten a pronounciation stuck in his head, and not been able to
"get" the new pronounciation when he heard it.
Lisa H
Radek
You're right; this wasn't one of my brightest moments. The first thing
Krum probably did was take a furtive look at her library card or
homework assignment.
Radek
Pen
<plu...@nospam.flash.net> wrote:
Uh... *Italian*??
Pen
<boggling>
Pen
<lob...@freeuk.com> wrote:
> So not only do most people not read posts but the ones that do completely
> misunderstand what they *do* read. The 'sort of' was not refering to the
> truth about the word, but to my admittance of it.
You might give some consideration to the possibility that people do not
misunderstand your posts because they are stupid, but because you are
unclear.
<much snipped>
> I wish people would get their priorities straight and just forget this whole
> thing ever happened. I posted a perfectly innocent post which was loosly
> correct (incorrectness could only be pointed out by over-prioritising the
> rules, giving minority examples, and generaly ignoring the essence of the
> post - which was about generaly accepted rules (e being silent at the end of
> words) not about pedantic nit-picky exceptions to those rules) People
> replied with snobby responses to boost their ego. Why should I reply to
> everything. Why should I be civilized. My original post was not aimed at
> anyone in particular, it was not an attack on anyone here. There was
> nothing wrong with it that people with real-life priorities and behaviour
> could point out. In real life conversation it is only the snide nit-picky
> pedants who point out similar errors in what people say.
Interesting interpretation.
If you didn't expect, or hope for, responses, why did you post at all?
If you have been on usenet for as much as five minutes, you must surely
have noticed that vehemently expressed opinions rarely go unchallenged.
Particularly the stupid ones.
Pen
M.Boekee
"The Fabulous Disney Babe" <dscve...@aol.comFabulous> schreef in bericht
news:20020307160919...@mb-cg.aol.com...
> >I have a kind of memory that JKR herself said it is prononced "hermi-own"
> >like you say, which would be the logical prononciation and apparently the
> >film took a strange way of prononcing it
>
> From
>
> Harry
>
> Potter
>
> and
>
> the
>
> Goblet
>
> of
>
> Fire
>
> (spoiler
>
>
> space)
>
> Hermione was now teaching Krum to say her name properly; he kept calling
her
> "Hermy-own."
> "Her-my-oh-nee," she said slowly and clearly.
Pluto (M)
"Pen" <p...@obvious.pensnest.co.uk> wrote in message
news:090320021116376626%p...@obvious.pensnest.co.uk...
Yes, /Italian/. Porsche is an /Italian/ car company.
Jonathan Buzzard
"Peter Lobley" <lob...@freeuk.com> writes:
> Well if being educated means pronouncing words like a twat then I'd rather
> be dumb.
>
> But wait, I AM educated, damn. oh shit I'm doomed to pronounce words
> like a twat.
Except clearly you are dumb as Hermione is a Greek name that is at least
three thousand years old and the correct pronoucation has the end 'e'
just like Nike, or Aphrodite or Ariadne or Athene or Circe or Selene, or
Hebe or Niobe or Penelope or ... (its getting a bit repetative so I will
stop) do which are also Greek names that are also thousands of years old.
The point being that an educated person (or at least one who knew
anything about there Greek Mythology) would know that Hermione was
the daughter of Helen of Tory and Menelaüs King of Sparta. Therefore
Hermione is beyond doubt a Greek name (and hence a foreign word) and
the accepted pronounciation of Greek names ending in an 'e' is to
pronounce the 'e'.
If you don't like it tough but that is the way it is so get over it,
you are wrong and JKR was right. Though she is unable to spell
Umfreville which is a bit shocking considering she studied French.
JAB.
PS. In case you are thinking of criticizing my spelling and grammer don't
bother I am dyslexic so you will only end up looking a bigger fool.
--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jona...@buzzard.org.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44(0)1661-832195
Jonathan Buzzard
"Peter Lobley" <lob...@freeuk.com> writes:
[SNIP]
> I wish people would get their priorities straight and just forget this whole
> thing ever happened. I posted a perfectly innocent post which was loosly
> correct (incorrectness could only be pointed out by over-prioritising the
> rules, giving minority examples, and generaly ignoring the essence of the
> post - which was about generaly accepted rules (e being silent at the end of
> words) not about pedantic nit-picky exceptions to those rules) People
> replied with snobby responses to boost their ego. Why should I reply to
> everything. Why should I be civilized. My original post was not aimed at
> anyone in particular, it was not an attack on anyone here. There was
> nothing wrong with it that people with real-life priorities and behaviour
> could point out. In real life conversation it is only the snide nit-picky
> pedants who point out similar errors in what people say.
No it was utterly incorrect as it made the assumption that Hermione was
not a foreign name. However it is a Greek name and the accepted
pronouncation is with the 'e'.
My name is Jonathan, lots of people spell it Johnathan which is plain
wrong. Some people even spell the own name Johnathan; it just means
they had illiterate parents.
Hermione is pronounced just like JKR said it was.
JAB.
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>wrong. Some people even spell the own name Johnathan; it just means
>they had illiterate parents.
Or Micheal. Agh.
The Fabulous Disney Babe
> bother I am dyslexic so you will only end up looking a bigger fool.
So is your name actually BAJ? A little friendly humor there, no insult
intended.
If you really want to drive him nuts, have him explain "scythe" and its
pronunciation.
Amy, Jim & Charlie
corrected by my mother *and* GoF, I would have assumed that names don't
follow the typical rules of pronunciation and grammer. I do live in America
so every name here is 'foreign' or they are all domestic, depending on how
you look at it, and people here tend to do as they please, which means if I
want to pronounce the name Charlie "Fiona", I suppose I could, being as it's
my name. However it wouldn't make it very easy for people to call me by
name. AT any rate, you get my drift. Our last name is Doddy and *does*
actually follow rules of pronunciation and yet you'd be amazed how often
telemarketers call "Hi is Charlie Daddy there?" or "doody" or doe-dee
....basically pronouncing the O every possible vowel combination EXCEPT that
which makes the most sense. (If it was Dody I would understand, but there
are 3 Ds, not just 2)
So I just took the easy route for myself and assumed that names don't follow
typical word rules.
Is that wrong? ;)
Yes this is my second post and no I don't want to piss everybody off by
jumping into the fray but that's my .02.
Amy