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Paul Kidd's arrest and conviction

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Captain Chipmunk

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Jun 23, 2004, 1:07:07 PM6/23/04
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I am new to this newsgroup thing, but after reading the bilge that has
spilled from Micheal Hirtes mouth, I have to step in and fill in a few gaps.

First off. Yes, it is true that Paul Kidd was arrested and convicted of, so
called, "Child Porn." If having photos of you kids naked, engaged in
everyday activites, like running through lawn sprinklers, taking a bath,
playing in a swimming pool, or just running through the house; then I
seriously suggest that all of you with kids, go through your family photo
albums and destroy those precious, irreplaceable photos, that have your kids
laughing, playing and running around without the protection of clothes on.
Otherwise you too can be charged and convicted on 'Child Porn.'

As for the computer, that was a gift from a friend, of Paul's. Trouble was,
the friend, was the person who was into child porn. Seems that whenever the
person would visit Paul and his family, he would ask to use the computer and
he would download the kiddie porn. The person was slick, use a friend's
computer to get the porn, that way if anyone traced it, they were in the
clear and your 'friend' would take the heat. Kind of a sick friend, but
Micheal Hirtes should know all about that.

There is hope for an appeal of the conviction, but Paul will need $50,000 to
file it.

As for how do I know all of this, I am a good friend of Paul and his family.
I have know Paul for over 15 years and a nicer guy you will not meet. I
seriously doubt that he would have put at risk his family for kiddie porn,
when I know what Paul and his wife to had to go through and how long they
took to have their kids.

Here is the info if you want to write a letter to assist Paul Kidd.

Send a rough draft to this e-mail:

i...@purehubris.com

Send the finish letter to this address.

PAUL KIDD
10 WATERSIDE RETREAT
WILSON PERTH WA6107
AUSTRALIA

Even if you can't write a letter of reference to personal character, you
could write him and wish him the best and even contribute to his appeal. I
know he will enjoy hearing from you.

This warning to all of you would collect japanese anime too. There is a lot
of what is considered "kiddie porn" within it, if you get overexhuberant
police, prosecutors and judges involved. You too could be joining Paul
Kidd.

Like one other person mentioned, "What is on your computer, Mike?"

Capt Chipmunk


Mike and Carole

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Jun 23, 2004, 3:31:57 PM6/23/04
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Well said. But I am counting the seconds until Hirtes flames you.

Mike


"Captain Chipmunk" <capt...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:BCFF2281.CB2A%capt...@swbell.net...

mhirtes

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Jun 23, 2004, 5:06:33 PM6/23/04
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In article <BCFF2281.CB2A%capt...@swbell.net>,
Captain Chipmunk <capt...@swbell.net> wrote:

> I am new to this newsgroup thing, but after reading the bilge that has
> spilled from Micheal Hirtes mouth, I have to step in and fill in a few gaps.
>
> First off. Yes, it is true that Paul Kidd was arrested and convicted of, so
> called, "Child Porn."

Apparently, it's wasn't "so-called child porn". The case reall IS "child
porn". If anything, the courts have at least determined that.


> If having photos of you kids naked, engaged in
> everyday activites, like running through lawn sprinklers, taking a bath,
> playing in a swimming pool, or just running through the house;


.............bobbing for the Biship's knob, etc......


> then I
> seriously suggest that all of you with kids, go through your family photo
> albums and destroy those precious, irreplaceable photos, that have your kids
> laughing, playing and running around without the protection of clothes on.
> Otherwise you too can be charged and convicted on 'Child Porn.'
>
> As for the computer, that was a gift from a friend, of Paul's. Trouble was,
> the friend, was the person who was into child porn.

Ah, I see the furry dodge now. It wasn't Paul. It was the
freiiiiiiinnnnnnnd. Uh huh. I see. YOu see this crap all the time on
nearly every episode of "COPS" (" No offisur.....dat ain't mah bag
o'crac. Iym's just holdin' it fer a friend.").

Darn! Now even Harvey the Rabbit's getting into kiddie pr0n. Poor Paul.

And BTW, if these cops are so ultra-zealous, how come this "friend"
isn't having court troubles to?

> Seems that whenever the
> person would visit Paul and his family, he would ask to use the computer and
> he would download the kiddie porn.

And eagerly volunteer to take more "bathtub photos" too, I'll bet.
Paul's larve must have been the most Zestfully clean kid in the Province.

> The person was slick, use a friend's
> computer to get the porn, that way if anyone traced it, they were in the
> clear and your 'friend' would take the heat. Kind of a sick friend, but
> Micheal Hirtes should know all about that.

Oh, I know a good BULLSHIT story when I read one, that's certain.

And speaking of bullshit stories, please do continue.........

>
> There is hope for an appeal of the conviction, but Paul will need $50,000 to
> file it.

Let's see. Under the "Brian O'Connell Plan" (punches numbers on
old-fashioned calculator), if each and every furry
(click*click*click*click) sent a dollar to Paul
(click*click*click*click) and the number of furries in the fandom equals
the number of dollars gathered (click*click*click*click).

........

Oh dear........

Does Ditech.com handle accounts from Australia, Paul? Better hope so.

>
> As for how do I know all of this, I am a good friend of Paul and his family.
> I have know Paul for over 15 years and a nicer guy you will not meet.

He loves children.

Really, REALLY loves children.......


> I
> seriously doubt that he would have put at risk his family for kiddie porn,

Well, furries ARE a blitheringly stupid selfish lot......

> when I know what Paul and his wife to had to go through and how long they
> took to have their kids.
>
> Here is the info if you want to write a letter to assist Paul Kidd.
>
> Send a rough draft to this e-mail:
>
> i...@purehubris.com
>
> Send the finish letter to this address.
>
> PAUL KIDD
> 10 WATERSIDE RETREAT
> WILSON PERTH WA6107
> AUSTRALIA

Soon to be:

Department of Justice
CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
Adelaide, South Australia
25 Franklin Street Adelaide SA 5000
GPO Box 1747 Adelaide SA 5001

And in a few months after that:

www.findagrave.com


>
> Even if you can't write a letter of reference to personal character, you
> could write him and wish him the best and even contribute to his appeal. I
> know he will enjoy hearing from you.

And don't forget to kiss-up in the letters by swearing horrrrrible
bloody vengence against that eeeeeevil Hirtes for the Glory of Paul. I
must die, after all. Darell sez so.

>
> This warning to all of you would collect japanese anime too. There is a lot
> of what is considered "kiddie porn" within it, if you get overexhuberant
> police, prosecutors and judges involved. You too could be joining Paul
> Kidd.
>
> Like one other person mentioned, "What is on your computer, Mike?"

Nope. None of that shit on my system. My kinks may be kinks, but they
are well within legal boundries (it pays to be paranoid).

Nice try. But, as Seven of Nine liked to say "You will fail."

Meanwhile, Paul's still fucked up the ass this time (well, in a manner
of speaking for now of course. But later on........)

mhirtes

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Jun 23, 2004, 5:07:24 PM6/23/04
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In article <10880205...@news.cyberback.com>,

"Mike and Carole" <Shan...@cyberback.com> wrote:

> Well said. But I am counting the seconds until Hirtes flames you.
>

It was more than an obligation this time, Panda-Panderer. It was a
pleasure. :)

M. Mitchell Marmel

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Jun 23, 2004, 9:55:08 PM6/23/04
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In article <10880205...@news.cyberback.com>,
"Mike and Carole" <Shan...@cyberback.com> wrote:

> Well said. But I am counting the seconds until Hirtes flames you.

Be a damned shame if the local DA got wind of Hirpes' activities, I
think.

-MMM-

--
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TaliVisions
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sawyercatunleashed
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/furry_city/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/losgatosafterdark/

mhirtes

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Jun 23, 2004, 10:48:25 PM6/23/04
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In article <marmelmm-A941DA...@velox.critter.net>,

"M. Mitchell Marmel" <marm...@vrx.net> wrote:

> In article <10880205...@news.cyberback.com>,
> "Mike and Carole" <Shan...@cyberback.com> wrote:
>
> > Well said. But I am counting the seconds until Hirtes flames you.
>
> Be a damned shame if the local DA got wind of Hirpes' activities, I
> think.
>
> -MMM-

And just what sort of "activities" are they supposed to be, dick?

What? You think I would make it easy for you clowns to have something on
me? Oh, I do not think so!

And besides. Even if I did, don't you think you assholes would have
tried to use it against me LONG before now? Now you can't tell me that
you have ANYTHING on me that you've been sitting on for all these years
and NOT ONCE tried to pull some shit. I know you insignificant fuckers
all too well. You have NO patience when it comes to inflicting misery on
others, especially towards me.

The mere fact that I'm still here proves that you've got SQUAT. Even
O'Connell's little stunt fizzled fast, and that was your best shot.

Now, you don't have JACK you can use against me. I'd say "better luck
next time", but you're not gonna HAVE a next time.

Sorry, furries. I'm staying right here to laugh at you and remind you of
what assholes you are, and I'll be here to watch the last of you go
away. :)

battyden

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Jun 23, 2004, 10:48:26 PM6/23/04
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Mike and Carole wrote:
> Well said. But I am counting the seconds until Hirtes flames you.


working from the time-stamps, 14,340 seconds. That's a bit slow; I think
hirtes' game is slipping.

batty

Tashta

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Jun 23, 2004, 11:07:44 PM6/23/04
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Okay, calling kids larvae and your nasty words toward Paul treatment of his
children...that's just too much.Yes you pushed buttons. Shall I start
mentioning your mother, Michael and what you enjoyed with her?

You live where was it? Council Bluff's, Iowa?

If I were you, I'd start cleaning out my computers NOW. You DO know that
it's very *very* difficult to clean stuff like that from your computer,
right? I've spoken to a few hackers that just grin about it. "Nothing
disappears" is what they told me...

Oh, and I have a friend that is willing to go to Iowa if anyone want so pay
for his train/plane ticket...*chuckle*


"mhirtes" <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message
news:mh-521503.16...@news.central.cox.net...

Tashta

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Jun 23, 2004, 11:54:46 PM6/23/04
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Thanks much for posting this information. It was very kind of you.

Tashta

"Captain Chipmunk" <capt...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:BCFF2281.CB2A%capt...@swbell.net...

mhirtes

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Jun 24, 2004, 1:35:16 AM6/24/04
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In article <4ArCc.97745$Sw.85993@attbi_s51>,
"Tashta" <tas...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Okay, calling kids larvae and your nasty words toward Paul treatment of his
> children...that's just too much.Yes you pushed buttons. Shall I start
> mentioning your mother, Michael and what you enjoyed with her?
>
> You live where was it? Council Bluff's, Iowa?
>
> If I were you, I'd start cleaning out my computers NOW. You DO know that
> it's very *very* difficult to clean stuff like that from your computer,
> right? I've spoken to a few hackers that just grin about it. "Nothing
> disappears" is what they told me...

You don't need to clean out what you never got in the first place, you
nasty little shit.

You make me laugh! Somehow you seem to think you know more about what's
on my computer than I do? Do you have some sort of hack into my system
right now? Can you see me laughing at you as I type this?

Guess what Dearie? I hardly even USE my computer much anymore! Now that
PS2 has online gaming ability, I only use my comp for email and to drive
you psychotics crazy with the occasional dosage of Reality.

Like I said before, IF you mental cases had ANYTHING on me, we BOTH know
that you would have used it against LONG before now. I'm still here.
You've got JACK. End of story. So stop acting like a pack of
spoiled-rotten third graders going "I'm gonna tell teacher on you!" and
fucking grow up already!

And before you pull any shit, bear in mind that I can also go out and
make mention of places like VCL and Rabbit Valley (to name a few) for
them to browse through. Can you imagine the fucking HOLOCAUST that I
could unleash upon furry fandom if you idiotic retards really want to
take things THAT far? Oh yeah. I'll talk and you KNOW I won't be able to
shut up. Think about that Doomsday Scenario before you send Mulder &
Scully my way.

>
> Oh, and I have a friend that is willing to go to Iowa if anyone want so pay
> for his train/plane ticket...*chuckle*

Sure. Send that buddy over on a coach fare. If he's suicidal enough to
try to attack me, I'll be sure to UPS back what's left of him to you.
(What can Brown do for you? Teach you not to fuck with Hirtes. LOL!)

Now, let's STFU about this "Let's get Hirtes" crap before you do
something that may bite YOU on the ass worse than it may do to mine, and
you'll WISH the only ones paying attention to furrydumb were the
reporters from LOADED.

Tashta

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Jun 24, 2004, 1:44:04 AM6/24/04
to

"mhirtes" <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message
news:mh-D00C00.00...@news.central.cox.net...

> In article <4ArCc.97745$Sw.85993@attbi_s51>,
> "Tashta" <tas...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Okay, calling kids larvae and your nasty words toward Paul treatment of
his
> > children...that's just too much.Yes you pushed buttons. Shall I start
> > mentioning your mother, Michael and what you enjoyed with her?
> >
> > You live where was it? Council Bluff's, Iowa?
> >
> > If I were you, I'd start cleaning out my computers NOW. You DO know that
> > it's very *very* difficult to clean stuff like that from your computer,
> > right? I've spoken to a few hackers that just grin about it. "Nothing
> > disappears" is what they told me...
>
> You don't need to clean out what you never got in the first place, you
> nasty little shit.

Bwa ha ha ha! Oooh, did I strike a nerve?

> You make me laugh! Somehow you seem to think you know more about what's
> on my computer than I do? Do you have some sort of hack into my system
> right now? Can you see me laughing at you as I type this?
>
> Guess what Dearie? I hardly even USE my computer much anymore! Now that
> PS2 has online gaming ability, I only use my comp for email and to drive
> you psychotics crazy with the occasional dosage of Reality.
>
> Like I said before, IF you mental cases had ANYTHING on me, we BOTH know
> that you would have used it against LONG before now. I'm still here.
> You've got JACK. End of story. So stop acting like a pack of
> spoiled-rotten third graders going "I'm gonna tell teacher on you!" and
> fucking grow up already!

Oooh still poking that button am I? Bwa ha ha ha!

> And before you pull any shit, bear in mind that I can also go out and
> make mention of places like VCL and Rabbit Valley (to name a few) for
> them to browse through. Can you imagine the fucking HOLOCAUST that I
> could unleash upon furry fandom if you idiotic retards really want to
> take things THAT far? Oh yeah. I'll talk and you KNOW I won't be able to
> shut up. Think about that Doomsday Scenario before you send Mulder &
> Scully my way.

Bwa ha ha ha. You just said that I *couldn't* pull any shit and now you're
saying this, inferring that I could, so you had to threaten me with what you
can do to furry fandom? hee hee hee! I DID push a button! Woo hoo!

> > Oh, and I have a friend that is willing to go to Iowa if anyone want so
pay
> > for his train/plane ticket...*chuckle*
>
> Sure. Send that buddy over on a coach fare. If he's suicidal enough to
> try to attack me, I'll be sure to UPS back what's left of him to you.
> (What can Brown do for you? Teach you not to fuck with Hirtes. LOL!)

Oh, you dear sweet little fuck. You have NO idea what you're saying.

> Now, let's STFU about this "Let's get Hirtes" crap before you do
> something that may bite YOU on the ass worse than it may do to mine, and
> you'll WISH the only ones paying attention to furrydumb were the
> reporters from LOADED.

Again, bwa ha ha ha. Is this supposed to have meaning? LOADED means shit to
me and the people I know. You're waxing incoherent. It's okay. Breath. Slow
down...


mhirtes

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Jun 24, 2004, 3:13:29 AM6/24/04
to
In article <EStCc.84062$Hg2.58926@attbi_s04>,
"Tashta" <tas...@comcast.net> wrote:


>
> Again, bwa ha ha ha. Is this supposed to have meaning? LOADED means shit to
> me and the people I know. You're waxing incoherent. It's okay. Breath. Slow
> down...

Go ahead and laugh (Hell knows I am, at you). Just remember what I had
said.

Tashta

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Jun 24, 2004, 6:53:31 AM6/24/04
to

"mhirtes" <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message
news:mh-0D6A98.02...@news.central.cox.net...

I'm shakin' Hirtes. I'm shakin'. You're a coward and there's nothing you can
do or say to change that or to frighten me. "Remember what I had said"? Oh
yeah. Riiight. *chortle*


J.P. Morgan

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Jun 24, 2004, 11:14:20 AM6/24/04
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"M. Mitchell Marmel" <marm...@vrx.net> wrote in message news:<marmelmm-A941DA...@velox.critter.net>...

> In article <10880205...@news.cyberback.com>,
> "Mike and Carole" <Shan...@cyberback.com> wrote:
>
> > Well said. But I am counting the seconds until Hirtes flames you.
>
> Be a damned shame if the local DA got wind of Hirpes' activities, I
> think.
>

You ever notice that the bitterest, dried-up nerds always go on about
how they're 銑OL' and 鼠aughing their ass' off? mherpes sounds like he
might have laughed once back in 1983.

In Rowrbrazzle, there was this nutcase named Tucker... eee, he just
went on forever, like a 12-year-old trying to sound cool. He also had
this grudge against Australians for some imagined wrong they committed
against him. Well, Tucker did not get better with the passage of time
-- he actually got worse, overreacting to harmless comments, seeing
vast conspiracies against him; it got so bad that he took his paranoid
attacks to the e-mail list of the membership. We finally took a vote
and kicked the loony out.

Message has been deleted

Tehrasha Darkon

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Jun 24, 2004, 2:33:15 PM6/24/04
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On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:14:20 -0700, J.P. Morgan wrote:

> Tucker did not get better with the passage of time
> -- he actually got worse, overreacting to harmless comments, seeing
> vast conspiracies against him; it got so bad that he took his paranoid
> attacks to the e-mail list of the membership. We finally took a vote
> and kicked the loony out.

Aha! So you admit you WERE all against him! :)

--
My mailbox is NOT an advertisement medium. Tehrasha Darkon
My address is NOT for sale, lease or rent. dar...@netins.net
Send me spam, lose your account. Get it? TINLC-1372
http://tehrasha.mamehost.com/bastard B.A.S.T.A.R.D

mhirtes

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Jun 24, 2004, 2:55:40 PM6/24/04
to
In article <507e9315.0406...@posting.google.com>,
je...@dog.com (Jenna) wrote:


>
> Now as for the Paul Kidd thing, from what I've read I still don't see
> anything to really suggest that the police were primarily interested
> in anything to do with furry erotica. The two principle pieces of
> evidence referred to have been the innocent photos of his kids which
> the developer freaked out about (Christ, Paul, get a digital camera)
> and the actual ch*ld porn allegedly left on his computer by this other
> person. Presumably this had nothing to do with furry. Yes, I can see
> how furry porn on the computer might be dragged in as some sort of
> tangential evidence, and how an over-zealous prosecutor or judge might
> make a mental link between the two things - but if what Chipmunk says
> is accurate, it sounds like its importance in this case is pretty
> trivial. The guilt by association thing (both things were on the
> computer at once. Both had to do with sex) is what concerns me.

So, if the conviction has nothing to do with furry porn, why is Paul
whining about being crucified for all of furrydom and swears to "fight
the good fight" for it's "honor"? By Paul's own admission, there seems
to be SOMETHING connecting this case to furry fandumb (which is why he
keeps saying how it's under attack by those Blue Meanies in the court
system), and Paul's been pretty stingy about the exact details.

Jeez, Paul. Stick with ONE alibi, willya? Is it the kiddie pix
downloaded by "Uncle Sticky" or the furry pr0n?

If Paul Kidd wants furrydumb to help shell out 50 grand (Jeez! It took
Darell nearly a decade to piss away THAT much moolah, and he's a pro at
it) to start his appeal, don't you think that he should at least give
out the WHOLE story to his "investors" and not just bits and pieces
about him whining about being fursecuted by The Man?

mhirtes

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Jun 24, 2004, 2:57:18 PM6/24/04
to
In article <5c6a3f88.04062...@posting.google.com>,
fishm...@yahoo.com (J.P. Morgan) wrote:

'Brazzle? What is that? Wasn't that the diseased carbuncle that fell off
the corpse of Vootie?

mhirtes

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Jun 24, 2004, 3:01:14 PM6/24/04
to
In article <LoyCc.169963$Ly.82371@attbi_s01>,
"Tashta" <tas...@comcast.net> wrote:

Okay. Just remember that all of your postings won't help Paul beat the
rap. In fact, it looks like his latest forwarded post is telling you
loonies to stay far, far away. Probably the smartest thing he's done for
his case. Chances are your letters will sink what little chance he has
of escaping his impending doom.

In spite of all the huzzahs and glory from the furry goobers that he
wallows in, HE knows deep down what you clowns are REALLY like.

PlanetFur

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Jun 24, 2004, 3:20:22 PM6/24/04
to
mhirtes wrote:

> So, if the conviction has nothing to do with furry porn, why is Paul
> whining about being crucified for all of furrydom and swears to "fight
> the good fight" for it's "honor"? By Paul's own admission, there seems
> to be SOMETHING connecting this case to furry fandumb (which is why he
> keeps saying how it's under attack by those Blue Meanies in the court
> system), and Paul's been pretty stingy about the exact details.

Exactly, since, well, PAUL HASN'T POSTED A SINGLE WORD.

Amazing how facts really get in the way of your diatribes, no?

> Jeez, Paul. Stick with ONE alibi, willya? Is it the kiddie pix
> downloaded by "Uncle Sticky" or the furry pr0n?

Paul hasn't said anything, reiterated. If you want to blast anyone,
flame away at the people speculating, which would include yourself.

> If Paul Kidd wants furrydumb to help shell out 50 grand (Jeez! It took
> Darell nearly a decade to piss away THAT much moolah, and he's a pro at
> it) to start his appeal, don't you think that he should at least give
> out the WHOLE story to his "investors" and not just bits and pieces
> about him whining about being fursecuted by The Man?

Paul hasn't asked for one cent so far, that I can see.

Nice try, moron, to bring someone down who's already having it rough.
But no, none of us can ever come close to your problems else it's war.

Seriously, get some help.

more...@greatweed.com

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Jun 24, 2004, 4:54:24 PM6/24/04
to
mhirtes <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message news:<mh-D00C00.00...@news.central.cox.net>...

> So stop acting like a pack of
> spoiled-rotten third graders going "I'm gonna tell teacher on you!" and
> fucking grow up already!

Michael telling furry fandom to grow up is like Marlon Brando telling
James Gandolfini to lay off the Krispy Kremes.

mhirtes

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Jun 24, 2004, 5:43:27 PM6/24/04
to
In article <cbf9eo$pi3$1...@velox.critter.net>,
PlanetFur <nos...@nospam.planetfur.com> wrote:

> mhirtes wrote:
>
> > So, if the conviction has nothing to do with furry porn, why is Paul
> > whining about being crucified for all of furrydom and swears to "fight
> > the good fight" for it's "honor"? By Paul's own admission, there seems
> > to be SOMETHING connecting this case to furry fandumb (which is why he
> > keeps saying how it's under attack by those Blue Meanies in the court
> > system), and Paul's been pretty stingy about the exact details.
>
> Exactly, since, well, PAUL HASN'T POSTED A SINGLE WORD.

Okay, so who where ARE these messages from Paul being forwarded from,
eh? Who's the one whining about being oppressed by The Man because of
his connection to furrydumb? Who swearing to "fight the good fight" in
counter-attacking these Blue Meanies who are prosecuting him (just as
soon as he can get that massive jailhouse dick pulled out of his ass).

Martin Skunk

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Jun 24, 2004, 5:42:08 PM6/24/04
to

"J.P. Morgan" <fishm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> In Rowrbrazzle, there was this nutcase named Tucker... eee, he just
> went on forever, like a 12-year-old trying to sound cool. He also had
> this grudge against Australians for some imagined wrong they committed
> against him. Well, Tucker did not get better with the passage of time
> -- he actually got worse, overreacting to harmless comments, seeing
> vast conspiracies against him; it got so bad that he took his paranoid
> attacks to the e-mail list of the membership. We finally took a vote
> and kicked the loony out.

Hmm... Is Rowrbrazzle still around? I saw a 'zine a while ago and
found it interesting.


PlanetFur

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Jun 24, 2004, 5:50:44 PM6/24/04
to
mhirtes wrote:

> Okay, so who where ARE these messages from Paul being forwarded from,
> eh? Who's the one whining about being oppressed by The Man because of
> his connection to furrydumb? Who swearing to "fight the good fight" in
> counter-attacking these Blue Meanies who are prosecuting him (just as
> soon as he can get that massive jailhouse dick pulled out of his ass).

Sure, show me a direct forwarded message and not people just saying what
they think or know, please? And definitely not speculation here.

You're claiming that the message keeps changing after replying to person
after different person.

You seem lost in how this "From:" thing works in newsgroups. Do you need
someone to give you a remedial course?

Tashta

unread,
Jun 24, 2004, 7:31:24 PM6/24/04
to

"mhirtes" <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message
news:mh-0DD961.14...@news.central.cox.net...

Dance dance dance, Hirtes. *chuckle* Can't keep the subject in line and have
people say what you want? *chortle.* I'm not looking to help Paul with my
postings. I'm helping in other ways. YOUR postings aren't going to cause him
any more hindrance than he already has, either. You're just trying to get
your rocks off seeing if you can cause folks to be upset at you because
that's the only attention you can get.

Paul has friends. Can you say the same? Hardly. That's why you're all
alooooooooone in Iowa. Bwa ha ha ha.


Tashta

unread,
Jun 24, 2004, 7:35:06 PM6/24/04
to
Um, Paul hasn't said a word, period. It's all speculation or the single
message from a close friend of his. Nothing has been sent directly from
Paul. Did you forget how to read? Now I can understand why you immediatly
wrote to poor Cassandra when you misread my postings. You're slathering and
drooling in your rants so much that you don't slow down long enough to read
the actual content of the postings.

First we start with phonics...


"mhirtes" <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message

news:mh-3672F5.16...@news.central.cox.net...

J.P. Morgan

unread,
Jun 24, 2004, 7:42:37 PM6/24/04
to
mhirtes <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message news:<mh-FB544A.13...@news.central.cox.net>...

> In article <5c6a3f88.04062...@posting.google.com>,
> fishm...@yahoo.com (J.P. Morgan) wrote:
>
> > "M. Mitchell Marmel" <marm...@vrx.net> wrote in message
> > news:<marmelmm-A941DA...@velox.critter.net>...
> > > In article <10880205...@news.cyberback.com>,
> > > "Mike and Carole" <Shan...@cyberback.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Well said. But I am counting the seconds until Hirtes flames you.
> > >
> > > Be a damned shame if the local DA got wind of Hirpes' activities, I
> > > think.
> > >
> >
> > You ever notice that the bitterest, dried-up nerds always go on about
> > how they're ?LOL' and ?laughing their ass' off? mherpes sounds like he

> > might have laughed once back in 1983.
> >
> > In Rowrbrazzle, there was this nutcase named Tucker... eee, he just
> > went on forever, like a 12-year-old trying to sound cool. He also had
> > this grudge against Australians for some imagined wrong they committed
> > against him. Well, Tucker did not get better with the passage of time
> > -- he actually got worse, overreacting to harmless comments, seeing
> > vast conspiracies against him; it got so bad that he took his paranoid
> > attacks to the e-mail list of the membership. We finally took a vote
> > and kicked the loony out.
>
> 'Brazzle? What is that? Wasn't that the diseased carbuncle that fell off
> the corpse of Vootie?

Oh yeah, and Tucker also went on about how all his imaginary friends
were supporting him.

Ever notice how appropriate it is to imagine hirpes' paranoid ravings
spoken in the voice of Homestar Runner? (NO offense to HR or his
fans, by the way.)

Jenna

unread,
Jun 24, 2004, 8:15:37 PM6/24/04
to
mhirtes <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message news:<mh-176B2C.13...@news.central.cox.net>...


> So, if the conviction has nothing to do with furry porn, why is Paul
> whining about being crucified for all of furrydom and swears to "fight
> the good fight" for it's "honor"?

Good point. Now that I've read that alleged quote, I agree, assuming
it's genuine, he does appear to be implying that furry material was
central in the conviction. All the same this doesn't seem to sit well
with other claims by other people supposedly in contact with him.

Whatever the facts turn out to be, I sincerely hope that the guy
doesn't end up with a criminal record for owning furry erotica. Nobody
deserves that over a drawing; not him, you or anyone else.

Brian O'connell

unread,
Jun 24, 2004, 9:08:06 PM6/24/04
to
"J.P. Morgan" <fishm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5c6a3f88.04062...@posting.google.com...

> Ever notice how appropriate it is to imagine hirpes' paranoid ravings
> spoken in the voice of Homestar Runner? (NO offense to HR or his
> fans, by the way.)

As long as it isn't blaspheming Strongbad, I doubt it could be that
offensive.


Wanderer

unread,
Jun 25, 2004, 12:57:59 AM6/25/04
to
"mhirtes" <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message
news:mh-3672F5.16...@news.central.cox.net...

> Okay, so who where ARE these messages from Paul being forwarded from,
> eh? Who's the one whining about being oppressed by The Man because of
> his connection to furrydumb? Who swearing to "fight the good fight" in
> counter-attacking these Blue Meanies who are prosecuting him.

<tawdry pornography snipped... Harlequin is better than that, and I hate
Harlequin>

To my knowledge, there has been a total of one (1) message posted that was
quoted (not forwarded) from Paul Kidd. There have been, as yet, no other
messages claiming to be from Paul Kidd.

I can be very certain of this, as I posted that quote at Mr. Kidd's request.

Again, that is one (1) message. <Holds up pointer finger to illustrate,
rather than the finger aimed his way by Mr. Hirtes> One (1) message. Uno.
Un. Ein. One.

Admittedly, both of your almost-quotes, above, were pulled from that
message. In the message I quoted, however, there was no mention of
character reference letters or thousands of dollars. Those may be spurious.

Yours exactly,

The well-read,

Wanderer
wand...@ticnet.com

"Where am I going? I don't quite know.
What does it matter *where* people go?
Down to the woods where the bluebells grow!
Anywhere! Anywhere! *I* don't know!"
-- a. a. milne


mhirtes

unread,
Jun 25, 2004, 2:03:14 AM6/25/04
to
In article <cbfttq$1lrd$1...@velox.critter.net>,

Well Brian, Jerry & I already see you with the voice of I.R. Baboon
(I.R. BRian. Get it?) going "I.R. Brian am cool! I.R. betturh than
Collinz or Hurtess!"

mhirtes

unread,
Jun 25, 2004, 2:03:44 AM6/25/04
to
In article <gvJCc.102489$Sw.78858@attbi_s51>,
"Tashta" <tas...@comcast.net> wrote:


> Paul has friends. Can you say the same? Hardly.

With friends like you.........

Tashta

unread,
Jun 25, 2004, 2:23:38 AM6/25/04
to
Heh, you have no idea. And you're *still* dancing, too bad you have no
rhythm. (And you still avoided answering the question. *chuckle*)

"mhirtes" <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message

news:mh-841757.01...@news.central.cox.net...

Obvious Fake. Do Not Harvest.

unread,
Jun 25, 2004, 2:26:59 AM6/25/04
to
>From: "Martin Skunk" m_s...@notcoldmail.com

> Hmm... Is Rowrbrazzle still around? I saw a 'zine a while ago and
>found it interesting.

Well, they have thier own entry in Wikipedia. As usual, see for yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowrbrazzle

Quote for those who don't like following URL's:

"Rowrbrazzle" entry from Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia (as of
6/24/2004)

1. Rowrbrazzle as an exclamation used by the characters in Walt Kelly's
comic-strip "Pogo".
2. Rowrbrazzle is an Amateur Press Association magazine devoted to 'funny
animals' cartoon illustration, that for a long time was a bulwark for furry
fandom. The word is a misspelling of "Rowrbazzle", an exclamation used at times
by the characters in Walt Kelly's comic-strip "Pogo".

ROWRBRAZZLE, the APA, was started by Marc Schirmeister around 1983 then taken
over by Fred Patten five years later. The first issue was distributed to the
association membership in February 1984, it is still published as of June 2004
(with over 80 quarterly issues so far), and it is continuing it's uninterrupted
20 year run. Some of the artists/writers who have been members in the past
include Stan Sakai, Jim Groat, Greg Bear (not the SF writer), G. W. Thomas
(yes, the horror writer), Michael Kelly, John Cawley, and Steve Martin (no, not
the comedian).

End Quote.

********************************************************
If you want me to see your response, please post.
http://www.towerofbabel.com/antispam
http://members.hostedscripts.com/antispam.html
********************************************************

M. Mitchell Marmel

unread,
Jun 25, 2004, 4:51:39 AM6/25/04
to
In article <5c6a3f88.04062...@posting.google.com>,
fishm...@yahoo.com (J.P. Morgan) wrote:

> You ever notice that the bitterest, dried-up nerds always go on about

> how they're ‘LOL' and ‘laughing their ass' off? mherpes sounds like he


> might have laughed once back in 1983.

Does he? I dunno; he's permanently killfiled around here.

> In Rowrbrazzle, there was this nutcase named Tucker... eee, he just
> went on forever, like a 12-year-old trying to sound cool. He also had
> this grudge against Australians for some imagined wrong they committed
> against him. Well, Tucker did not get better with the passage of time
> -- he actually got worse, overreacting to harmless comments, seeing
> vast conspiracies against him; it got so bad that he took his paranoid
> attacks to the e-mail list of the membership. We finally took a vote
> and kicked the loony out.

Cool.

-MMM-

--
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TaliVisions
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sawyercatunleashed
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/furry_city/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/losgatosafterdark/

Chuck Melville

unread,
Jun 25, 2004, 8:29:53 AM6/25/04
to

J.P. Morgan wrote:
> In Rowrbrazzle, there was this nutcase named Tucker... eee, he just
> went on forever, like a 12-year-old trying to sound cool. He also had
> this grudge against Australians for some imagined wrong they committed
> against him. Well, Tucker did not get better with the passage of time
> -- he actually got worse, overreacting to harmless comments, seeing
> vast conspiracies against him; it got so bad that he took his paranoid
> attacks to the e-mail list of the membership. We finally took a vote
> and kicked the loony out.

Really? Tucker's gone?

Maybe I should consider rejoining...

PlanetFur

unread,
Jun 25, 2004, 9:29:07 AM6/25/04
to

"Tashta" <tas...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:KxPCc.179064$Ly.60354@attbi_s01...

> Heh, you have no idea. And you're *still* dancing, too bad you have no
> rhythm. (And you still avoided answering the question. *chuckle*)

You will quickly find that this is how Michael Hirtes works.

He'll come from nowhere sometimes to say, "Look at the stupid furries,
look at what they did!" When one or two people do something, it
reflects badly on all us, to Mike.

Then when someone points out the logic, he'll claim we're in denial,
he's still right, blah blah blah.

Then he'll call us childish names, dodge questions asked of him, and
harp on things over ten years ago to justify his actions.

The scary part is, he does all this on our dime, because he's on welfare,
if memory serves me, because he couldn't sell his FurPlay 'zine well
enough to make ends meet, then gave up and has been obsessing about
his loss for years and blaming it on all us.

And anyone who publishes something that's done better than him is
automatically a target. Jim Groat, Tamar, Mike Curtis, etc. He even
fantasized about sleeping with Jim Groat's wife before, he's that
disturbed.

If it weren't for the fact that he's all bark, and won't ever come through
on ANY threats he constantly makes, he'd be a problem and disturbing.
But I just find him the same as a school kid who thinks he's the shit,
and has flunked fourth grade five times already to make sure he's the
biggest kid in the class.


Brock Ulfsen

unread,
Jun 25, 2004, 9:44:24 AM6/25/04
to
mhirtes wrote:
> If Paul Kidd wants furrydumb to help shell out 50 grand (Jeez! It took
> Darell nearly a decade to piss away THAT much moolah, and he's a pro at
> it) to start his appeal, don't you think that he should at least give
> out the WHOLE story to his "investors" and not just bits and pieces
> about him whining about being fursecuted by The Man?

AU$50k is small potatoes for an appeal against any significant criminal
conviction. Lawyers in Oz charge like a wounded bull.

Cost me AU$3k for a formal "Opinion" from a Barrister about 15 years ago
(Two pages of text) on an Associations Law matter.

...Brock.

Martin Skunk

unread,
Jun 25, 2004, 10:36:38 AM6/25/04
to
"Obvious Fake. Do Not Harvest." <ratfinks...@aol.comNOREPLY> wrote in
message news:20040625022659...@mb-m05.aol.com...

> >From: "Martin Skunk" m_s...@notcoldmail.com
>
> > Hmm... Is Rowrbrazzle still around? I saw a 'zine a while ago and
> >found it interesting.
>
> Well, they have thier own entry in Wikipedia. As usual, see for yourself:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowrbrazzle
>

Well, yeah, I know what's Rowrbrazzle. But what I want to know its contact
info.

---Martin Skunk


J.P. Morgan

unread,
Jun 25, 2004, 11:12:59 AM6/25/04
to
mhirtes <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message news:<mh-AE090F.01...@news.central.cox.net>...

No, you just imagined "Brian" and "Jerry" agreeing with you in your
mind. You need proper medication and therapy.

Message has been deleted

Brock Ulfsen

unread,
Jun 25, 2004, 12:14:14 PM6/25/04
to
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 23:44:24 +1000, Brock Ulfsen <elfw...@tpg.com.au>
> (Brock Ulfsen) left the following spoor in alt.fan.furry:

>>Cost me AU$3k for a formal "Opinion" from a Barrister about 15 years ago
>>(Two pages of text) on an Associations Law matter.

> And what would that be in USD? Around 1.5K?

At the time more like US$2.4k

Now, about US$2k

I got off fairly cheap, pinned the question down fairly narrowly by
doing my own research.

...Brock.

Obvious Fake. Do Not Harvest.

unread,
Jun 26, 2004, 1:10:41 AM6/26/04
to
>From: "Martin Skunk" m_s...@notcoldmail.com
>"Obvious Fake. Do Not Harvest." <ratfinks...@aol.comNOREPLY> wrote in
>> >From: "Martin Skunk" m_s...@notcoldmail.com
>>
>> > Hmm... Is Rowrbrazzle still around? I saw a 'zine a while ago and
>> >found it interesting.
>>
>> Well, they have thier own entry in Wikipedia. As usual, see for yourself:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowrbrazzle
>>
>
>Well, yeah, I know what's Rowrbrazzle. But what I want to know its contact
>info.

My bad. I thought the question was whether the apa was still going or not. Here
you go:

Fred Patten
11863 W. Jefferson Blvd, #1
Culver City, CA
USA 90230

Timmy Ramone

unread,
Jun 26, 2004, 11:46:28 AM6/26/04
to
M. Mitchell Marmel wrote:
>
> In article <5c6a3f88.04062...@posting.google.com>,
> fishm...@yahoo.com (J.P. Morgan) wrote:
>
> > You ever notice that the bitterest, dried-up nerds always go on
> > about how they're ‘LOL' and ‘laughing their ass' off? mherpes
> > sounds like he might have laughed once back in 1983.
>
> Does he? I dunno; he's permanently killfiled around here.

A wise policy. I wish more people would do so -- it really is
the only way of dealing with trolls like him. He's like the
villain on this morning's episode of DANNY PHANTOM (a great
new animated series currently on Nickelodeon) -- a creature
that feeds off of people's negative emotions. Where are those
Ghostbusters when you need 'em?

> > In Rowrbrazzle, there was this nutcase named Tucker...

> > it got so bad that he took his paranoid
> > attacks to the e-mail list of the membership. We finally took a
> > vote and kicked the loony out.
>
> Cool.

J.P. (and Mr. Unidyne) deserve a lot of the credit for ridding the
APA of this pest. I don't think 'BRAZZLE could have survived had
Mr. T. remained a member for much longer. Thanks, guys!

--

Visit the "Usual Suspects" weblog:
http://www.browncross.com/usualsuspects/

"Bowl a strike, not a spare -- revolution everywhere!" -RABL motto

M. Mitchell Marmel

unread,
Jun 28, 2004, 9:09:58 PM6/28/04
to
In article <40DD9A...@mones4ever.com>,
Timmy Ramone <r...@mones4ever.com> wrote:


> > Does he? I dunno; he's permanently killfiled around here.
>
> A wise policy. I wish more people would do so -- it really is
> the only way of dealing with trolls like him.

Yup. The only time I see anything by Hirpes is when someone else
responds to him. I need to tweak my killfiles a bit to eliminate those
posts, too...

> He's like the
> villain on this morning's episode of DANNY PHANTOM (a great
> new animated series currently on Nickelodeon) -- a creature
> that feeds off of people's negative emotions. Where are those
> Ghostbusters when you need 'em?

I was going to make a cruel remark about a rolled up newspaper
employment section being adequate Hirpesbane, but decided not to. :)

> J.P. (and Mr. Unidyne) deserve a lot of the credit for ridding the
> APA of this pest. I don't think 'BRAZZLE could have survived had
> Mr. T. remained a member for much longer. Thanks, guys!

Sorta kinda makes the case to try again for a modded NG. :)

Tashta

unread,
Jun 29, 2004, 8:37:18 AM6/29/04
to

"M. Mitchell Marmel" <marm...@vrx.net> wrote in message
news:marmelmm-B407EB...@velox.critter.net...

> In article <40DD9A...@mones4ever.com>,
> Timmy Ramone <r...@mones4ever.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > Does he? I dunno; he's permanently killfiled around here.
> >
> > A wise policy. I wish more people would do so -- it really is
> > the only way of dealing with trolls like him.
>
> Yup. The only time I see anything by Hirpes is when someone else
> responds to him. I need to tweak my killfiles a bit to eliminate those
> posts, too...

*I zaftig zebe waving good bye* *grin* Argh, he GOT me! I've been killfiled!
(Bad death scene. Very corny)

> > He's like the
> > villain on this morning's episode of DANNY PHANTOM (a great
> > new animated series currently on Nickelodeon) -- a creature
> > that feeds off of people's negative emotions. Where are those
> > Ghostbusters when you need 'em?
>
> I was going to make a cruel remark about a rolled up newspaper
> employment section being adequate Hirpesbane, but decided not to. :)

My computer keyboard is safe, barely, as I was not drinking anything upon
reading this statement. :) *chuckle*

> > J.P. (and Mr. Unidyne) deserve a lot of the credit for ridding the
> > APA of this pest. I don't think 'BRAZZLE could have survived had
> > Mr. T. remained a member for much longer. Thanks, guys!

Wasn't he (T) a member WAY back? I remember a fellow that was doing
something along the lines that is mentioned and that's pretty much the
reason Ed Kline stepped out of Rowrbrazzle. It became mostly writing for a
while and bad writing at that. I gather it has improved as of late?

> Sorta kinda makes the case to try again for a modded NG. :)

:D heh

Tashta


Timmy Ramone

unread,
Jul 1, 2004, 2:54:09 PM7/1/04
to
Tashta wrote:
>
> > In article <40DD9A...@mones4ever.com>,
> > Timmy Ramone <r...@mones4ever.com> wrote:
>
> > > J.P. (and Mr. Unidyne) deserve a lot of the credit for ridding the
> > > APA of this pest. I don't think 'BRAZZLE could have survived had
> > > Mr. T. remained a member for much longer. Thanks, guys!
>
> Wasn't he (T) a member WAY back? I remember a fellow that was doing
> something along the lines that is mentioned and that's pretty much
> the reason Ed Kline stepped out of Rowrbrazzle.

That might have been someone else. Sadly, "T" is not the only "bad
apple" who was in the APA. Thankfully, those folks have been the
exception rather than the rule.

> It became mostly writing for a
> while and bad writing at that. I gather it has improved as of late?

Muchly so, and definitely worth checking out.

mouse

unread,
Jul 1, 2004, 3:30:43 PM7/1/04
to
Timmy Ramone <r...@mones4ever.com> wrote in news:40E45D...@mones4ever.com:

>>
>> Wasn't he (T) a member WAY back? I remember a fellow that was doing
>> something along the lines that is mentioned and that's pretty much
>> the reason Ed Kline stepped out of Rowrbrazzle.
>
> That might have been someone else. Sadly, "T" is not the only "bad
> apple" who was in the APA. Thankfully, those folks have been the
> exception rather than the rule.
>
>> It became mostly writing for a
>> while and bad writing at that. I gather it has improved as of late?
>
> Muchly so, and definitely worth checking out.

Rowrbrazzle is members only right ? Its not sold like a zine-style APA like
Gallery/Huzzah?

Tashta

unread,
Jul 1, 2004, 5:34:41 PM7/1/04
to
Back when it was "members only" but Fred sold copies occasionally. I would
be interested to see how things are going now. :)

Tashta
"mouse" <mo...@blackvault.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95199E0...@204.152.189.149...

Tamar

unread,
Jul 1, 2004, 9:49:46 PM7/1/04
to
At least he hasn't received any phone calls from his mom lately. A shame,
they should have a real sit down heart to heart about how to behave in
public, but, parent's raising their children to be productive members of
society isn't always a given.

You are what you're raised to be I guess, well, sometimes. But maybe she did
do her job and he really is just a defect of the attempt of a good
upbringing.

--
Shawntae Howard
www.extinctioners.com

"Tashta" <tas...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:4ArCc.97745$Sw.85993@attbi_s51...
> Okay, calling kids larvae and your nasty words toward Paul treatment of
his
> children...that's just too much.Yes you pushed buttons. Shall I start
> mentioning your mother, Michael and what you enjoyed with her?
>
> You live where was it? Council Bluff's, Iowa?
>
> If I were you, I'd start cleaning out my computers NOW. You DO know that
> it's very *very* difficult to clean stuff like that from your computer,
> right? I've spoken to a few hackers that just grin about it. "Nothing
> disappears" is what they told me...
>
> Oh, and I have a friend that is willing to go to Iowa if anyone want so
pay
> for his train/plane ticket...*chuckle*


>
>
> "mhirtes" <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message

> news:mh-521503.16...@news.central.cox.net...
> > In article <BCFF2281.CB2A%capt...@swbell.net>,
> > Captain Chipmunk <capt...@swbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I am new to this newsgroup thing, but after reading the bilge that has
> > > spilled from Micheal Hirtes mouth, I have to step in and fill in a few
> gaps.
> > >
> > > First off. Yes, it is true that Paul Kidd was arrested and convicted
of,
> so
> > > called, "Child Porn."
> >
> > Apparently, it's wasn't "so-called child porn". The case reall IS "child
> > porn". If anything, the courts have at least determined that.
> >
> >
> > > If having photos of you kids naked, engaged in
> > > everyday activites, like running through lawn sprinklers, taking a
bath,
> > > playing in a swimming pool, or just running through the house;
> >
> >
> > .............bobbing for the Biship's knob, etc......
> >
> >
> > > then I
> > > seriously suggest that all of you with kids, go through your family
> photo
> > > albums and destroy those precious, irreplaceable photos, that have
your
> kids
> > > laughing, playing and running around without the protection of clothes
> on.
> > > Otherwise you too can be charged and convicted on 'Child Porn.'
> > >
> > > As for the computer, that was a gift from a friend, of Paul's.
Trouble
> was,
> > > the friend, was the person who was into child porn.
> >
> > Ah, I see the furry dodge now. It wasn't Paul. It was the
> > freiiiiiiinnnnnnnd. Uh huh. I see. YOu see this crap all the time on
> > nearly every episode of "COPS" (" No offisur.....dat ain't mah bag
> > o'crac. Iym's just holdin' it fer a friend.").
> >
> > Darn! Now even Harvey the Rabbit's getting into kiddie pr0n. Poor Paul.
> >
> > And BTW, if these cops are so ultra-zealous, how come this "friend"
> > isn't having court troubles to?
> >
> > > Seems that whenever the
> > > person would visit Paul and his family, he would ask to use the
computer
> and
> > > he would download the kiddie porn.
> >
> > And eagerly volunteer to take more "bathtub photos" too, I'll bet.
> > Paul's larve must have been the most Zestfully clean kid in the
Province.
> >
> > > The person was slick, use a friend's
> > > computer to get the porn, that way if anyone traced it, they were in
the
> > > clear and your 'friend' would take the heat. Kind of a sick friend,
but
> > > Micheal Hirtes should know all about that.
> >
> > Oh, I know a good BULLSHIT story when I read one, that's certain.
> >
> > And speaking of bullshit stories, please do continue.........
> >
> > >
> > > There is hope for an appeal of the conviction, but Paul will need
> $50,000 to
> > > file it.
> >
> > Let's see. Under the "Brian O'Connell Plan" (punches numbers on
> > old-fashioned calculator), if each and every furry
> > (click*click*click*click) sent a dollar to Paul
> > (click*click*click*click) and the number of furries in the fandom equals
> > the number of dollars gathered (click*click*click*click).
> >
> > ........
> >
> > Oh dear........
> >
> > Does Ditech.com handle accounts from Australia, Paul? Better hope so.
> >
> > >
> > > As for how do I know all of this, I am a good friend of Paul and his
> family.
> > > I have know Paul for over 15 years and a nicer guy you will not meet.
> >
> > He loves children.
> >
> > Really, REALLY loves children.......
> >
> >
> > > I
> > > seriously doubt that he would have put at risk his family for kiddie
> porn,
> >
> > Well, furries ARE a blitheringly stupid selfish lot......
> >
> > > when I know what Paul and his wife to had to go through and how long
> they
> > > took to have their kids.
> > >
> > > Here is the info if you want to write a letter to assist Paul Kidd.
> > >
> > > Send a rough draft to this e-mail:
> > >
> > > i...@purehubris.com
> > >
> > > Send the finish letter to this address.
> > >
> > > PAUL KIDD
> > > 10 WATERSIDE RETREAT
> > > WILSON PERTH WA6107
> > > AUSTRALIA
> >
> > Soon to be:
> >
> > Department of Justice
> > CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
> > Adelaide, South Australia
> > 25 Franklin Street Adelaide SA 5000
> > GPO Box 1747 Adelaide SA 5001
> >
> > And in a few months after that:
> >
> > www.findagrave.com
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Even if you can't write a letter of reference to personal character,
you
> > > could write him and wish him the best and even contribute to his
appeal.
> I
> > > know he will enjoy hearing from you.
> >
> > And don't forget to kiss-up in the letters by swearing horrrrrible
> > bloody vengence against that eeeeeevil Hirtes for the Glory of Paul. I
> > must die, after all. Darell sez so.
> >
> > >
> > > This warning to all of you would collect japanese anime too. There is
a
> lot
> > > of what is considered "kiddie porn" within it, if you get
overexhuberant
> > > police, prosecutors and judges involved. You too could be joining
Paul
> > > Kidd.
> > >
> > > Like one other person mentioned, "What is on your computer, Mike?"
> >
> > Nope. None of that shit on my system. My kinks may be kinks, but they
> > are well within legal boundries (it pays to be paranoid).
> >
> > Nice try. But, as Seven of Nine liked to say "You will fail."
> >
> > Meanwhile, Paul's still fucked up the ass this time (well, in a manner
> > of speaking for now of course. But later on........)
>
>


Tamar

unread,
Jul 1, 2004, 9:50:54 PM7/1/04
to
What, you think your collection of harem girl pictures, with some looking
pretty darn young due to some of the artist's styles isn't a potential
problem?

--
Shawntae Howard
www.extinctioners.com

"mhirtes" <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message

news:mh-D00C00.00...@news.central.cox.net...
> In article <4ArCc.97745$Sw.85993@attbi_s51>,


> "Tashta" <tas...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Okay, calling kids larvae and your nasty words toward Paul treatment of
his
> > children...that's just too much.Yes you pushed buttons. Shall I start
> > mentioning your mother, Michael and what you enjoyed with her?
> >
> > You live where was it? Council Bluff's, Iowa?
> >
> > If I were you, I'd start cleaning out my computers NOW. You DO know that
> > it's very *very* difficult to clean stuff like that from your computer,
> > right? I've spoken to a few hackers that just grin about it. "Nothing
> > disappears" is what they told me...
>

> You don't need to clean out what you never got in the first place, you
> nasty little shit.
>
> You make me laugh! Somehow you seem to think you know more about what's
> on my computer than I do? Do you have some sort of hack into my system
> right now? Can you see me laughing at you as I type this?
>
> Guess what Dearie? I hardly even USE my computer much anymore! Now that
> PS2 has online gaming ability, I only use my comp for email and to drive
> you psychotics crazy with the occasional dosage of Reality.
>
> Like I said before, IF you mental cases had ANYTHING on me, we BOTH know
> that you would have used it against LONG before now. I'm still here.
> You've got JACK. End of story. So stop acting like a pack of
> spoiled-rotten third graders going "I'm gonna tell teacher on you!" and
> fucking grow up already!
>
> And before you pull any shit, bear in mind that I can also go out and
> make mention of places like VCL and Rabbit Valley (to name a few) for
> them to browse through. Can you imagine the fucking HOLOCAUST that I
> could unleash upon furry fandom if you idiotic retards really want to
> take things THAT far? Oh yeah. I'll talk and you KNOW I won't be able to
> shut up. Think about that Doomsday Scenario before you send Mulder &
> Scully my way.


>
> >
> > Oh, and I have a friend that is willing to go to Iowa if anyone want so
pay
> > for his train/plane ticket...*chuckle*
>

> Sure. Send that buddy over on a coach fare. If he's suicidal enough to
> try to attack me, I'll be sure to UPS back what's left of him to you.
> (What can Brown do for you? Teach you not to fuck with Hirtes. LOL!)
>
> Now, let's STFU about this "Let's get Hirtes" crap before you do
> something that may bite YOU on the ass worse than it may do to mine, and
> you'll WISH the only ones paying attention to furrydumb were the
> reporters from LOADED.


Chuck Melville

unread,
Jul 1, 2004, 11:26:21 PM7/1/04
to

mouse wrote:
>
> Rowrbrazzle is members only right ? Its not sold like a zine-style APA like
> Gallery/Huzzah?

Correct. ROWRBRAZZLE is a -genuine- APA in that it is made by the
members for their own membership, rather than a fanzine that is intended
for an outside audience. (An APA consists of home-made fanzines that
are combined together to form a larger 'zine that is redistributed among
the membership.)

mouse

unread,
Jul 2, 2004, 1:04:13 AM7/2/04
to
Chuck Melville <cp...@zipcon.com> wrote in
news:cc2kl3$l9s$1...@velox.critter.net:

well I know all about them (APAs). I wanted to buy a large stack or
'rowrbrazzle' that showed up on Furbid one time. Apa-zines like Gallery
though, and even huzzah, didnt quite strike me as "compiled
fanzines"...more just members only type APA that just happened to be sold
to the public.

Chuck Melville

unread,
Jul 2, 2004, 1:53:09 AM7/2/04
to

Which is why I referred to ROWRBRAZZLE as a -genuine- APA. Neither
HUZZAH nor GALLERY were really APAs; they were fanzines. They had a
contributer base that was similar to an APA, but the contributors didn't
have to print up their own copies of their respective sections; that was
instead handled by the editors. In a true APA, each member produces his
own section, makes enough copies to cover the entire membership, mails
it in to the designated editor, who compiles all of the sections into a
single 'zine, and mails everything back out to the membership. And APAs
go -only- to the membership. (Although ROWRBRAZZLE usually puts
together about five or so extra copies to be given out to prospective
members.)


--
-Chuck Melville-
Comic book fanatic and sometimes-creator-type-person
***************
Books, posters and merchandise, check out
http://www.cafeshops.com/feliciakatara

mouse

unread,
Jul 2, 2004, 2:34:30 AM7/2/04
to
Chuck Melville <cp...@zipcon.com> wrote in
news:cc2t8a$urs$1...@velox.critter.net:

> And APAs go -only- to the membership. (Although
> ROWRBRAZZLE usually puts together about five or so extra copies to be
> given out to prospective members.)


No, I can understand that. Theres quite a few artists that are and have
beem in Rowrbrazzle that I would like to see..but Im not an artist. I have
to wait for the rare occassion that an artist wants to dump thier
collection.

mhirtes

unread,
Jul 2, 2004, 4:40:14 AM7/2/04
to
In article <cc2f1s$esn$1...@velox.critter.net>, "Tamar" <how...@erie.net>
wrote:

> What, you think your collection of harem girl pictures, with some looking
> pretty darn young due to some of the artist's styles isn't a potential
> problem?

Only if you're a dick.

And we both know you're a dick, Tumor.

mhirtes

unread,
Jul 2, 2004, 4:41:30 AM7/2/04
to
In article <cc2evp$ep0$1...@velox.critter.net>, "Tamar" <how...@erie.net>
wrote:

> At least he hasn't received any phone calls from his mom lately. A shame,
> they should have a real sit down heart to heart about how to behave in
> public, but, parent's raising their children to be productive members of
> society isn't always a given.
>
> You are what you're raised to be I guess, well, sometimes. But maybe she did
> do her job and he really is just a defect of the attempt of a good
> upbringing.

Typical furry. Always dragging things outside of the fandom.

Is it any wonder why the fandom deserves to be destroyed?

Swipecat

unread,
Jul 2, 2004, 8:34:46 AM7/2/04
to
mhirtes <m...@spammersarescum.com> wrote:

>Is it any wonder why the fandom deserves...

Mike, I wish you wouldn't make yourself look so pitifully sad. I know
it's not your fault that you were hooked in again, this time, but the
way you so brutally expose your problems is quite embarrassing.

I couldn't imagine anything more self-trivialising than what appears to
be your life's main target: to "destroy" an obscure, insignificant, and
ultimately meaningless fandom. It's true that it's your illness that's
blinded you to how pitiful this is, so I'll say once again: Do you
really want to stay in your appalling state for the rest of your life?

We all know that you're still deeply into furry porn - it's not like
you've made a secret of your recent buying habits or anything. If there
really had been an evil conspiracy against you, then the very worst
thing that the conspirators could do would be to manipulate you into
making it your life's goal to attack your OWN main interest. And yet you
did it to yourself. It's both amazing and shocking that you've dropped
yourself into SUCH self-destructive inanity.

Tamar

unread,
Jul 2, 2004, 10:40:20 AM7/2/04
to
Well, I certainly do have you since you're so interested. I guess living in
that house you complain so much about seems to have you a bit fixated on
male anatomy it seems.

--
Shawntae Howard
www.extinctioners.com

"mhirtes" <m...@spammersarescum.com> wrote in message
news:mh-338C77.03...@news.central.cox.net...

Tamar

unread,
Jul 2, 2004, 10:41:53 AM7/2/04
to
Yet you don't deny. Luckily I guess you no longer have access to getting
people's phone numbers to call them at all times of the night (thank
goodness 10 years ago I was only in highschool).


--
Shawntae Howard
www.extinctioners.com

"mhirtes" <m...@spammersarescum.com> wrote in message

news:mh-B75F10.03...@news.central.cox.net...

Don Sanders

unread,
Jul 2, 2004, 11:14:37 AM7/2/04
to
In article <Xns951A1A6...@204.152.189.149>, mo...@blackvault.com
says...
I think I am beginning to see Mouse's point. If an APA is only for the
membership and not for the general public, should the general public
even know of it's existence? Why advertise unless you are drumming up
prospects for new membership.

Of course you got to consider the requirements for membership, although
offhand I do not know what those requirements are, I can guess they just
don't let anyone in. No, I have nothing against the creators of
Rowrbrazzle, or its current operators, just a little miffed about
advertising something that may not be obtainable to the average folk.

(Then again, the old adage would apply, if you don't like how something
is run, start your own.)

---
Don Sanders

Obvious Fake. Do Not Harvest.

unread,
Jul 3, 2004, 1:36:03 AM7/3/04
to
>From: Don Sanders Noo...@myemail.com
>> Chuck Melville <cp...@zipcon.com> wrote in
>>
>> > And APAs go -only- to the membership. (Although
>> > ROWRBRAZZLE usually puts together about five or so extra copies to be
>> > given out to prospective members.)
>>
>> No, I can understand that. Theres quite a few artists that are and have
>> beem in Rowrbrazzle that I would like to see..but Im not an artist. I have
>> to wait for the rare occassion that an artist wants to dump thier
>> collection.
>
>I think I am beginning to see Mouse's point. If an APA is only for the
>membership and not for the general public, should the general public
>even know of it's existence? Why advertise unless you are drumming up
>prospects for new membership.
>
>Of course you got to consider the requirements for membership, although
>offhand I do not know what those requirements are, I can guess they just
>don't let anyone in. No, I have nothing against the creators of
>Rowrbrazzle, or its current operators, just a little miffed about
>advertising something that may not be obtainable to the average folk.

The requirements to get into Rowrbrazzle are actually pretty simple. If you
can't DRAW funny animals or anthropomorphics, you can still get in if you can
WRITE about them.

How can I know that? Paul Kidd was once in it. There is a member named Charles
Garafalo who has been in since literally the first year doing nothing but text
-- and he can't draw a strait line with a ruler (I'm not being mean, he
actually said so himself, once). The Official Editor, Fred Patten, doesn't even
"do" fiction: his entire input has always been more of a news-and-comments kind
of thing (and it is not just because he's the editor... he did that before he
got the position).

The number one rule is that your input has to involve furry stuff ->without<-
being something that would be at home in a porn shop.

As for not seeing what's in Rowrbrazzle, well, there's a good shot that you
have without knowing it. Although the apa requests original material, every
page belongs to each original contributor, who can reproduce it anywhere and
anyhow they like afterwards (and they often do).

For further details, get in touch with Fred Patten. Or not. :)

Timmy Ramone

unread,
Jul 3, 2004, 2:46:53 AM7/3/04
to
Obvious Fake. Do Not Harvest. wrote:
>
> ...Although the apa requests original material, every

> page belongs to each original contributor, who can reproduce it
> anywhere and anyhow they like afterwards (and they often do).

Speaking of which, you can see one member's ROWRBRAZZLE pages here:

http://www.rootoon.com/rb/

You can find several others by Google-ing "rowrbrazzle."

? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}

unread,
Jul 4, 2004, 6:55:04 PM7/4/04
to
Don Sanders <Noo...@myemail.com> writes:

[...]

> I think I am beginning to see Mouse's point. If an APA is only for the
> membership and not for the general public, should the general public
> even know of it's existence? Why advertise unless you are drumming up
> prospects for new membership.

On the other hand why keep its existence secret?

--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
Free the Memes.

Don Sanders

unread,
Jul 4, 2004, 8:28:33 PM7/4/04
to
In article <m3oemv5...@dformosa.zeta.org.au>,
dfor...@zeta.org.au says...

> Don Sanders <Noo...@myemail.com> writes:
>
> [...]
>
> > I think I am beginning to see Mouse's point. If an APA is only for the
> > membership and not for the general public, should the general public
> > even know of it's existence? Why advertise unless you are drumming up
> > prospects for new membership.
>
> On the other hand why keep its existence secret?
>

To keep out the Riffraff? Actually I did not believe the APA was
secret, just one that requires membership, and requirements to join.

--
Don Sanders.


mouse

unread,
Jul 4, 2004, 11:02:29 PM7/4/04
to
Don Sanders <noo...@myemail.com> wrote in
news:cca7au$1u62$1...@velox.critter.net:


Look, I wasn't making any statement about Rowrbrazzle or how any APA should
or shouldn't be run. I was just saying its too bad it's not available
beacuse I was interested in it. thats all.

Don Sanders

unread,
Jul 5, 2004, 12:49:28 AM7/5/04
to
In article <Xns951CEAA...@204.152.189.149>,
mo...@blackvault.com says...
Understandable. I was only agreeing with a few points and
observations.

Yea, I got some issues with a few APAs but it does not mean I'm
forming a lynch mob.

--
Don Sanders.


Wanderer

unread,
Jul 5, 2004, 5:57:19 AM7/5/04
to
Pardon if I ask the one question nobody's covered:

How do I submit my work to Rowrbrazzle?

Yours hopefully,

The wolfish,

Wanderer
wand...@ticnet.com

"Where am I going? I don't quite know.
What does it matter *where* people go?
Down to the woods where the bluebells grow!
Anywhere! Anywhere! *I* don't know!"
-- a. a. milne


Tashta

unread,
Jul 5, 2004, 9:53:27 AM7/5/04
to
You might write to Fred Patten.He could tell you. When Ed was in
Rowrbrazzle, some years back, there was usually quite a long "waiting" line.
:)

Tashta

"Wanderer" <wand...@ticnet.com> wrote in message
news:10ei9g1...@corp.supernews.com...

Chuck Melville

unread,
Jul 5, 2004, 11:05:29 AM7/5/04
to

? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote:
> Don Sanders <Noo...@myemail.com> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>
>>I think I am beginning to see Mouse's point. If an APA is only for the
>>membership and not for the general public, should the general public
>>even know of it's existence? Why advertise unless you are drumming up
>>prospects for new membership.
>
>
> On the other hand why keep its existence secret?
>

It's -not- secret. Never has been. It has a fixed, limited
membership, and, as members come and go, needs new blood from time to time.

Chuck Melville

unread,
Jul 5, 2004, 11:07:17 AM7/5/04
to

Don Sanders wrote:

>
> To keep out the Riffraff? Actually I did not believe the APA was
> secret, just one that requires membership, and requirements to join.
>

Initially, it required an invitation. Nowadays, you simply apply to
the Editor, and if he feels you meet the requirements, you're placed on
the waiting list. How long it takes to become an active member then
depends entirely on the length of the list and how soon older members
drop out.

Chuck Melville

unread,
Jul 5, 2004, 11:07:58 AM7/5/04
to

mouse wrote:


>
> Look, I wasn't making any statement about Rowrbrazzle or how any APA should
> or shouldn't be run. I was just saying its too bad it's not available
> beacuse I was interested in it. thats all.

So. Go apply.

Brian Henderson

unread,
Jul 5, 2004, 12:31:26 PM7/5/04
to
On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:14:37 -0400, Don Sanders <Noo...@myemail.com>
wrote:

>I think I am beginning to see Mouse's point. If an APA is only for the
>membership and not for the general public, should the general public
>even know of it's existence? Why advertise unless you are drumming up
>prospects for new membership.

And of course, at least last I knew, 'Brazzle had a long, long, long
waiting list of people who wanted to become members. It was
approximately 2 years to get in, way back when.

Of course, things may have changed since then.

Don Sanders

unread,
Jul 5, 2004, 5:39:32 PM7/5/04
to
In article <ccbqrb$1amr$2...@velox.critter.net>, cp...@zipcon.com says...

>
>
> Don Sanders wrote:
>
> >
> > To keep out the Riffraff? Actually I did not believe the APA was
> > secret, just one that requires membership, and requirements to join.
> >
>
> Initially, it required an invitation. Nowadays, you simply apply to
> the Editor, and if he feels you meet the requirements, you're placed on
> the waiting list. How long it takes to become an active member then
> depends entirely on the length of the list and how soon older members
> drop out.
>

Just as I thought. Although it is not a bad thing, still one gets
the feeling that with approval, and a waiting list, a person will
have to make a choice of joining or waiting for something easier to
join.

It almost has the same feel as a dead tree version of Yerf, (for some
out there who get my meaning. :) ) Thanks for the information
though. For what supposed to be a relaxing hobby for me, just one
more bit of stress to add on to it. (No offense to those who run or
manage the APA in question. I know some things can only be obtained
by hard work, but it comes down to the question of how much hard work
it takes and when it becomes too much hard work.)

--
Don Sanders.


Wanderer

unread,
Jul 5, 2004, 9:52:27 PM7/5/04
to
"Tashta" <tas...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:r3dGc.28940$7t3.8814@attbi_s51...

> You might write to Fred Patten.He could tell you. When Ed was in
> Rowrbrazzle, some years back, there was usually quite a long "waiting"
line.
> :)
>

That's great! That's wonderful! That's easy!

How do I write to Fred Patten?:) Sorry, but I really don't know an addy fur
him offpaw, and I can't even find a website for Rowrbrazzle itself.

Yours with a letter to Patten pending,

Tashta

unread,
Jul 5, 2004, 10:38:44 PM7/5/04
to
The Ursa Major awards contact page has his email addy:

fredpatten (at) earthlink (dot) net

There ya go!

Striped Smiles!
Tashta

"Wanderer" <wand...@ticnet.com> wrote in message

news:10ek1es...@corp.supernews.com...

Obvious Fake. Do Not Harvest.

unread,
Jul 6, 2004, 2:04:51 AM7/6/04
to
>From: "Wanderer" wand...@ticnet.com
>"Tashta" <tas...@comcast.net> wrote in message

>> You might write to Fred Patten.He could tell you. When Ed was in


>> Rowrbrazzle, some years back, there was usually quite a long "waiting"
>line.

>That's great! That's wonderful! That's easy!


>
>How do I write to Fred Patten?:) Sorry, but I really don't know an addy fur
>him offpaw, and I can't even find a website for Rowrbrazzle itself.
>
>Yours with a letter to Patten pending,

Two things Rowrbrazzle does not currently have:

A website (it could be the editor's responsibility to arrange one, but there
are some of us who are still amazed he's even on the Internet, and the last
time he asked the membership if they wanted one you could hear crickets
chirping)

A waiting list (technically, there is still a list but no one is on it).

? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}

unread,
Jul 6, 2004, 8:40:03 AM7/6/04
to
Chuck Melville <cp...@zipcon.com> writes:

> ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote:
> > Don Sanders <Noo...@myemail.com> writes:
> > [...]

> >> If an APA is only for
> >> the membership and not for the general public, should the general
> >> public even know of it's existence?

[...]

> > On the other hand why keep its existence secret?
> It's -not- secret. Never has been. It has a fixed, limited
> membership, and, as members come and go, needs new blood from time to
> time.

Sorry I thourt my meaning was clear. I was bascially counterpointing
Mr Sanders argument that the general public shouldn't know of its
existence.

Brian Henderson

unread,
Jul 7, 2004, 10:49:38 AM7/7/04
to
On 06 Jul 2004 22:40:03 +1000, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}
<dfor...@zeta.org.au> wrote:

>Sorry I thourt my meaning was clear. I was bascially counterpointing
>Mr Sanders argument that the general public shouldn't know of its
>existence.

The general furry public knows of the existence of 'Brazzle, but by
and large, have never, and will likely never see an issue.

That's a shame, really.

Don Sanders

unread,
Jul 7, 2004, 11:18:27 AM7/7/04
to
In article <hc3oe0pqljdu6626q...@4ax.com>,
BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net says...
No real loss if you ask me. Somethings should be shroud in mystery to
to keep it interesting. Anyway considering the past few months, I've
lost interest in it. It seems more easier joining the Masons.

---
Don Sanders.

Dave the Dancing Hyena

unread,
Jul 8, 2004, 4:13:42 AM7/8/04
to
Don Sanders <Noo...@myemail.com> shall never vanquished be until
great Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.

There is a masonic lodge near here.
They use a village hall or their lodge IS the village hall. One of the
two.

---
"My men have a disease of the heart which can only be assuaged by
gold" - Hernan Cortez

Tashta

unread,
Jul 8, 2004, 9:22:11 AM7/8/04
to
You're STILL responding to my posts and this post was sent, what? Over a
week ago? You are pathetic. It doesn't matter what happens to Paul HERE. The
folks who matter will continue to care and support him, no matter what
little slimy joy you receive from any negative news you can pick and glean
from postings that have nothing but conjecture.

Any letters of support would be just that. Support. That's all. You are
*such* a creepy goober and your obsessiveness is shown in BIG lights because
you actually responded to this OLD posting on the matter. *shakes head* You
are such a sad sad little man...

"mhirtes" <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message
news:mh-0DD961.14...@news.central.cox.net...
> In article <LoyCc.169963$Ly.82371@attbi_s01>,
> "Tashta" <tas...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > "mhirtes" <m...@nospambots.com> wrote in message
> > news:mh-0D6A98.02...@news.central.cox.net...
> > > In article <EStCc.84062$Hg2.58926@attbi_s04>,
> > > "Tashta" <tas...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Again, bwa ha ha ha. Is this supposed to have meaning? LOADED means
shit
> > to
> > > > me and the people I know. You're waxing incoherent. It's okay.
Breath.
> > Slow
> > > > down...
> > >
> > > Go ahead and laugh (Hell knows I am, at you). Just remember what I had
> > > said.
> >
> > I'm shakin' Hirtes. I'm shakin'. You're a coward and there's nothing you
can
> > do or say to change that or to frighten me. "Remember what I had said"?
Oh
> > yeah. Riiight. *chortle*
> >
> >
>
> Okay. Just remember that all of your postings won't help Paul beat the
> rap. In fact, it looks like his latest forwarded post is telling you
> loonies to stay far, far away. Probably the smartest thing he's done for
> his case. Chances are your letters will sink what little chance he has
> of escaping his impending doom.
>
> In spite of all the huzzahs and glory from the furry goobers that he
> wallows in, HE knows deep down what you clowns are REALLY like.


Brian Henderson

unread,
Jul 13, 2004, 2:52:23 PM7/13/04
to
On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 11:18:27 -0400, Don Sanders <Noo...@myemail.com>
wrote:

>No real loss if you ask me. Somethings should be shroud in mystery to

>to keep it interesting. Anyway considering the past few months, I've
>lost interest in it. It seems more easier joining the Masons.

I was on the wait list for 'Brazzle back in the mid-80s and gave up,
it seemed like too much work just to pay money for people to look at
your stuff. Then again, I've never been one for exclusive clubs
either.

It just seems that if you're going to talk about something, but nobody
that isn't a member can get it, then why are you bothering to talk
about it in the first place?

Chuck Melville

unread,
Jul 14, 2004, 9:32:55 AM7/14/04
to

For a number of the members, it was a means of experimenting with work,
and to show it to others of similar interests and skills strictly for
the purpose of feedback, rather than for the sake of release to the
general public. That's part of the reason why 'Brazzle never went
public after it became more feasible productionwise to do so.

Don Sanders

unread,
Jul 14, 2004, 10:06:08 PM7/14/04
to
In article <cd3cmc$30tv$1...@velox.critter.net>, cp...@zipcon.com says...

>
>
> Brian Henderson wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 11:18:27 -0400, Don Sanders <Noo...@myemail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>No real loss if you ask me. Somethings should be shroud in mystery to
> >>to keep it interesting. Anyway considering the past few months, I've
> >>lost interest in it. It seems more easier joining the Masons.
> >
> >
> > I was on the wait list for 'Brazzle back in the mid-80s and gave up,
> > it seemed like too much work just to pay money for people to look at
> > your stuff. Then again, I've never been one for exclusive clubs
> > either.
> >
> > It just seems that if you're going to talk about something, but nobody
> > that isn't a member can get it, then why are you bothering to talk
> > about it in the first place?
>
> For a number of the members, it was a means of experimenting with work,
> and to show it to others of similar interests and skills strictly for
> the purpose of feedback, rather than for the sake of release to the
> general public. That's part of the reason why 'Brazzle never went
> public after it became more feasible productionwise to do so.
>
>
Perhaps at the time it was a novel idea since maybe, I may be wrong
in the assumption that connectivity with the Internet was not
available at the time. Maybe back then, the only feedback an artist
could get was through published zines and of course artwork had to be
good enough to get published in order to be featured in zines.

Understandable that an APA would be created to provide a platform
like what you mentioned. Anyway, hearing at least one or two
complaints about having to wait so long to go on a waiting list, then
when picked, if picked, going through a process of screening, (I have
to assume this since I never went through the process myself and
considering the APA itself, anyone of questionable quality might be
notified if they did not make the cut.) I'd rather take my chances
self-publishing on the Internet or posting on the various newsgroup
and archive sites.

Although the APA sounds like a good idea, it still has that country
club feel to it and frankly, I'd rather move on up without forgetting
my roots. In short, 'Brazzle feels elitist to me, but then again, I
am human and subject to being wrong. Not a dig on those who produce
it and their membership.

--
Don Sanders.


Don Sanders

unread,
Jul 14, 2004, 10:10:50 PM7/14/04
to
In article <5ja8f01jbtqvgrgb5...@4ax.com>,
BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net says...

Just answered Mr. Melville's reply and more or less reflected the
same thoughts on the subject. Not often we see eye to eye on
subjects Mr. Henderson. I like to do art for the fun of it, but I'd
rather do it without the stress of worrying about having to try and
join an exclusive group to be with peers. I know it is my loss, but
there are others out there that will be their gain.

--
Don Sanders.


Keeshah

unread,
Jul 15, 2004, 3:21:59 PM7/15/04
to
Don Sanders wrote:

> Although the APA sounds like a good idea, it still has that country
> club feel to it and frankly, I'd rather move on up without forgetting
> my roots. In short, 'Brazzle feels elitist to me, but then again, I
> am human and subject to being wrong. Not a dig on those who produce
> it and their membership.
>

That has always been "Brazzle's problem, since the start of fandom.
That being it's been, Elitist only.

I have heard rumors of having to be in with the good old boys network,
to ever get in.

Complaints from artists that have been contribing for years on the wait
list,
getting passed over to join, By others who had only been waiting a few
months.

Further complaints from long term wait listers, who had been black
balled from
ever joining, but were never told they had been.

Favored artists, allowed to remain on the list, eventho they have
missed the min.
requirments to remain on the list. sometimes by several months or
years.

Don Sanders

unread,
Jul 15, 2004, 6:37:07 PM7/15/04
to
In article <40F6D9...@gbronline.com>, Kee...@gbronline.com
says...

That sums it up for me. It would be interesting to have somebody
involved with the APA to give us their comments. Might not be too
much to ask and at least for now I'll like to drop this subject
before it turns into a flamewar.

Thanks.

--
Don Sanders.


J.P. Morgan

unread,
Jul 15, 2004, 8:11:50 PM7/15/04
to
Keeshah <Kee...@gbronline.com> wrote in message news:<40F6D9...@gbronline.com>...

> Don Sanders wrote:
>
> > Although the APA sounds like a good idea, it still has that country
> > club feel to it and frankly, I'd rather move on up without forgetting
> > my roots. In short, 'Brazzle feels elitist to me, but then again, I
> > am human and subject to being wrong. Not a dig on those who produce
> > it and their membership.
> >
>
> That has always been "Brazzle's problem, since the start of fandom.
> That being it's been, Elitist only.
>
> I have heard rumors of having to be in with the good old boys network,
> to ever get in.
>

Gaw! Have you also heard rumors of the Furry Illuminati?

M. Mitchell Marmel

unread,
Jul 15, 2004, 10:18:19 PM7/15/04
to
In article <5c6a3f88.04071...@posting.google.com>,
fishm...@yahoo.com (J.P. Morgan) wrote:


> > I have heard rumors of having to be in with the good old boys network,
> > to ever get in.
> >
>
> Gaw! Have you also heard rumors of the Furry Illuminati?

No (furnords) such (furnords) thing.

Furnords.

-MMM-

--
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TaliVisions
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sawyercatunleashed
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/furry_city/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/losgatosafterdark/

Brock Ulfsen

unread,
Jul 15, 2004, 10:43:07 PM7/15/04
to
J.P. Morgan wrote:
> Gaw! Have you also heard rumors of the Furry Illuminati?

Just a bunch of Austrian furries that think they rule the MU*s they are
on. What is it about certain furs and Wiz status on a MU*?

Of course we all know that they aren't really Austrian. But we won't say
which expansionist national socialist imperial power most do live in. Nope.

...Brock.

Chuck Melville

unread,
Jul 16, 2004, 8:54:07 AM7/16/04
to

Keeshah wrote:
> That has always been "Brazzle's problem, since the start of fandom.
> That being it's been, Elitist only.
>
> I have heard rumors of having to be in with the good old boys network,
> to ever get in.
>

And the key word there is 'rumors'. Stories passed around without
basis in fact, or with perhaps only partially based in fact, distorted
or expanded upon without having been given a good Reality Check at any
point.

If you have any questions or need any good reliable information, you
only need go to the source, and that's to the APA itself, through it's
most viable and visible representative: it's central editor, Fred Patten.

As for the 'elitist' charge, my dictionary defines the word as being
'the best of the best". Is there something wrong with wanting to be, or
striving to be, the best? Not to say that everyone who has ever been in
the APA -is- the best, but it certainly seems to be a worthwhile goal.
Why would anyone -not- want to endeavor to put forward the very best
work they possibly could? Anytime the term comes up, though, it has a
very 'sour grapes' texture to it, meant derisively, as though the
accuser is oversensitive and defensive about his work and is so lacking
in self-confidence that he would rather 'hide his light under a bushel'
and blame 'Brazzle for being too snobbish for him to consider. Such a
charge of snobbery is too ironic to believe.

Timmy Ramone

unread,
Jul 16, 2004, 10:13:26 AM7/16/04
to
Don Sanders wrote:
>
> That sums it up for me. It would be interesting to have somebody
> involved with the APA to give us their comments. Might not be too
> much to ask and at least for now I'll like to drop this subject
> before it turns into a flamewar.

Well, let's see... I've only been a member of the APA from the
start (in fact, I helped Schirm start it -- over 20 years ago --
*whew!*). To the best of my knowledge, NONE of what you and
Keesha said about the APA is true. (Though it is true that
a couple artists were 'blacklisted', but that's only because
of their past bad behavior in the APA and/or towards other
members. However, in at least one case, the artist was eventually
allowed to re-join.) A lot of these negative rumors about
'BRAZZLE were started by the editors of rival APAs. Ironically,
those other publications tended to be even more petty and elitist
than 'BRAZZLE ever was. The fact that RB is still around while
these other APAs have faded away speaks for itself.

Once upon a time you could have called the 'BRAZZLE 'elitist.'
Back when it first started it had an interesting combination
of amateur and professional talent, including many then
up-and-coming artists from CalArts (folks who later became
well-known animation pros; LILO AND STITCH director, Chris
Sanders, was a member for a couple of issues). Sadly, that
hasn't been the case with ROWRBRAZZLE for a very long time.
For the first time in the history of the APA, there currently
is no one on the wait-list, and the current O.E.'s standards
are so low that just about anyone who can pick up a pen can
probably become a member.

Still, I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from trying to
become a member. If you write about or draw "furry" or
"funny animal" characters, then by all means contact the O.E.,
Fred Patten. APA membership can be a very interesting,
and the contact with other creators can be a valuable
experience.

--

Visit the "Usual Suspects" weblog:
http://www.browncross.com/usualsuspects/

"Bowl a strike, not a spare -- revolution everywhere!" -RABL motto

Don Sanders

unread,
Jul 16, 2004, 10:35:40 AM7/16/04
to
In article <40F7E2...@mones4ever.com>, r...@mones4ever.com says...

> Don Sanders wrote:
> >
> > That sums it up for me. It would be interesting to have somebody
> > involved with the APA to give us their comments. Might not be too
> > much to ask and at least for now I'll like to drop this subject
> > before it turns into a flamewar.
>
> Well, let's see... I've only been a member of the APA from the
> start (in fact, I helped Schirm start it -- over 20 years ago --
> *whew!*). To the best of my knowledge, NONE of what you and
> Keesha said about the APA is true. (Though it is true that
> a couple artists were 'blacklisted', but that's only because
> of their past bad behavior in the APA and/or towards other
> members. However, in at least one case, the artist was eventually
> allowed to re-join.) A lot of these negative rumors about
> 'BRAZZLE were started by the editors of rival APAs. Ironically,
> those other publications tended to be even more petty and elitist
> than 'BRAZZLE ever was. The fact that RB is still around while
> these other APAs have faded away speaks for itself.
>

Well, considering your standing in the genre, I can't see any way to
refute what you have stated, good enough for me. At least one member
of the APA (that I know of) have come forward to give us their view,
I thank you for that.



> Once upon a time you could have called the 'BRAZZLE 'elitist.'
> Back when it first started it had an interesting combination
> of amateur and professional talent, including many then
> up-and-coming artists from CalArts (folks who later became
> well-known animation pros; LILO AND STITCH director, Chris
> Sanders, was a member for a couple of issues). Sadly, that
> hasn't been the case with ROWRBRAZZLE for a very long time.
> For the first time in the history of the APA, there currently
> is no one on the wait-list, and the current O.E.'s standards
> are so low that just about anyone who can pick up a pen can
> probably become a member.
>
> Still, I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from trying to
> become a member. If you write about or draw "furry" or
> "funny animal" characters, then by all means contact the O.E.,
> Fred Patten. APA membership can be a very interesting,
> and the contact with other creators can be a valuable
> experience.
>

Sounds like a tempting offer, one I myself would jump upon if the
time and the circumstances were different. A bit too late for me but
at least this clears the air for younger artists to give a try
without having to wonder what I did for years about the APA.

--
Don Sanders.


Don Sanders

unread,
Jul 16, 2004, 10:55:44 AM7/16/04
to
In article <cd8j5k$123t$1...@velox.critter.net>, cp...@zipcon.com says...

>
>
> Keeshah wrote:
> > That has always been "Brazzle's problem, since the start of fandom.
> > That being it's been, Elitist only.
> >
> > I have heard rumors of having to be in with the good old boys network,
> > to ever get in.
> >
>
> And the key word there is 'rumors'. Stories passed around without
> basis in fact, or with perhaps only partially based in fact, distorted
> or expanded upon without having been given a good Reality Check at any
> point.
>

Can you blame those who are not in on the functions and operations of
the APA for not knowing which is rumor and which is fact?


> If you have any questions or need any good reliable information, you
> only need go to the source, and that's to the APA itself, through it's
> most viable and visible representative: it's central editor, Fred Patten.
>

Up until this thread, I did not know who the central editor what.
Sad to know that it takes a topic like this to bring out information.
And before somebody brings up ignorance as being no excuse for
knowing this, anyone can do a web search, but to my honest opinion,
if it takes days, weeks, years, to look up information for a casual
interest, then one must consider focusing their energies on other
things, unless somebody wants it bad enough.


> As for the 'elitist' charge, my dictionary defines the word as being
> 'the best of the best". Is there something wrong with wanting to be, or
> striving to be, the best? Not to say that everyone who has ever been in
> the APA -is- the best, but it certainly seems to be a worthwhile goal.
> Why would anyone -not- want to endeavor to put forward the very best
> work they possibly could? Anytime the term comes up, though, it has a
> very 'sour grapes' texture to it, meant derisively, as though the
> accuser is oversensitive and defensive about his work and is so lacking
> in self-confidence that he would rather 'hide his light under a bushel'
> and blame 'Brazzle for being too snobbish for him to consider. Such a
> charge of snobbery is too ironic to believe.
>

Well, I was going to be cordial and short, put this subject behind me
and move on, however you did stir something in me. As for your
definition, I won't dispute that, why split hairs, you believe what
you believe, I'll believe what I believe in. Nothing wrong with one
trying to put their best, as far as I can see. Not all those who
accuse have a sour grapes attitude.

As I stated before, at least one member of the APA have come forward
and expressed his views on the subject. I am satisfied with the
answer and at this point I would say it is time to put this thread to
an end.

Thank You.

--
Don Sanders.


Arty McToon

unread,
Jul 16, 2004, 3:32:40 PM7/16/04
to
Chuck Melville <cp...@zipcon.com> wrote in message news:<cd8j5k$123t$1...@velox.critter.net>...

> Keeshah wrote:
> > That has always been "Brazzle's problem, since the start of fandom.
> > That being it's been, Elitist only.
> >
> > I have heard rumors of having to be in with the good old boys network,
> > to ever get in.
> >
>
> And the key word there is 'rumors'. Stories passed around without
> basis in fact, or with perhaps only partially based in fact, distorted
> or expanded upon without having been given a good Reality Check at any
> point.
>
> If you have any questions or need any good reliable information, you
> only need go to the source, and that's to the APA itself, through it's
> most viable and visible representative: it's central editor, Fred Patten.
>
> As for the 'elitist' charge, my dictionary defines the word as being
> 'the best of the best". Is there something wrong with wanting to be, or
> striving to be, the best? Not to say that everyone who has ever been in
> the APA -is- the best, but it certainly seems to be a worthwhile goal.
> Why would anyone -not- want to endeavor to put forward the very best
> work they possibly could? Anytime the term comes up, though, it has a
> very 'sour grapes' texture to it, meant derisively, as though the
> accuser is oversensitive and defensive about his work and is so lacking
> in self-confidence that he would rather 'hide his light under a bushel'
> and blame 'Brazzle for being too snobbish for him to consider. Such a
> charge of snobbery is too ironic to believe.

As a fan of anthro animal art without any APA connections, sometimes I
wonder if having the "best of the best" in any given medium (APA,
Online galleries) is also a curse. Some people can create wonderful
and new things in each issue or in each drawing or story...sometimes
if some members strain to "top" their previous efforts, creative
burn-out could happen.

Or people get so comfortable thinking that their past work is the best
that they do not try new things and stick with the same "good" thing
issue after issue to the point of creative staleness.

Or people tend to copy the techniques of the "best" creators to the
point of limiting unique individual creative style and approaches.

A mix of different styles ( of fans and pro artists to get the
complete spectrum of viewpoints outside of individual friendship or
creative clicques) and maybe a relaxed manner where contributors
create for fun and bounce ideas to each other, rather than having 100%
of everything contributed is planned for professional publication
later in a gallery or paper medium, would be something I'd have more
respect for.

What's the point of being so exclusionary that ordinary casual fans
and creators of the art are kept out on the basis of creative skill
level or having a "lower profile" if their interest and knowledge in
the art are close to the same if not more as the elite creators?

That wascally miscweant Joe Strike

unread,
Jul 16, 2004, 5:52:24 PM7/16/04
to
'brazzle DEFINITELY needs some fresh blood; the zine's been slowly
bleeding members since..., since they let me in, at matter of fact,
which was when they increased the membership from 50 to 60 (& there
were still something like 30 people on the waiting list). Right now
the membership is around 27-28 people. I think the internet is what's
killing 'brazzle - why wait 6 months for an ABA comment exchange when
you can do it overnight here, not to mention look at TONS of artwork
on line?

So anyone who wants in, contact Fred like Timmy said. Actually, since
I don't want to give out his contact info, contact me & I'll pass your
Email address along to him.

J.P. Morgan

unread,
Jul 16, 2004, 10:54:03 PM7/16/04
to
art...@yahoo.com (Arty McToon) wrote in message news:<1c7fae9c.04071...@posting.google.com>...

> Chuck Melville <cp...@zipcon.com> wrote in message news:<cd8j5k$123t$1...@velox.critter.net>...
> > Keeshah wrote:

(snip)

>
> What's the point of being so exclusionary that ordinary casual fans
> and creators of the art are kept out on the basis of creative skill
> level or having a "lower profile" if their interest and knowledge in
> the art are close to the same if not more as the elite creators?

What the heck is all this 'elitism' folderol directed at 'Brazzle?
It's an APA, one that's always had a variety of talent levels, from
amateur to pro (though admittedly there used to be lots more of the
latter).

(For that matter, I don't get how some people get all huffy at the
very idea of high standards... you know, "Huh! You don't LIKE that
movie -- you elitist! You think you're BETTER than me, DON"T you?!" As
if anybody with any critical standards at all were being deliberately
stuck-up and snooty, just to be mean.)

Keeshah

unread,
Jul 17, 2004, 6:59:54 AM7/17/04
to
Chuck Melville wrote:

> And the key word there is 'rumors'. Stories passed around without
> basis in fact, or with perhaps only partially based in fact, distorted
> or expanded upon without having been given a good Reality Check at any
> point.

I'll give you that, most of my experiance has been durning artist jams,
where the
wait listers got together to compare note on how they were treated, what
there
current ranking is. who got in, who didn't, who got skipped, ect.

Another problem was, members talking about, or drawing injoke pictures
reguarding events that
happened in 'Brazzle. That anyone outside of 'Brazzle would have no ref
to what they were about.

> As for the 'elitist' charge, my dictionary defines the word as being
> 'the best of the best". Is there something wrong with wanting to be, or
> striving to be, the best? Not to say that everyone who has ever been in
> the APA -is- the best, but it certainly seems to be a worthwhile goal.
> Why would anyone -not- want to endeavor to put forward the very best
> work they possibly could?

An after you put forth the very best you can do, to be dismissed out of
hand as not being worthy.
Looked down apon an treated like a 2nd or 3rd rate artist. or worse,
told that they will never
be good enought to be a hack artist an should stop drawing.

Who desides What is good enought?
People will pay millions for a deformed face painted by Picasso, still
looks like scribbles of a
2 year old. an i would buy one even if i had the money..

Arty McToon

unread,
Jul 17, 2004, 1:28:47 PM7/17/04
to
fishm...@yahoo.com (J.P. Morgan) wrote in message news:<5c6a3f88.04071...@posting.google.com>...

>
> What the heck is all this 'elitism' folderol directed at 'Brazzle?
> It's an APA, one that's always had a variety of talent levels, from
> amateur to pro (though admittedly there used to be lots more of the
> latter).
>
> (For that matter, I don't get how some people get all huffy at the
> very idea of high standards... you know, "Huh! You don't LIKE that
> movie -- you elitist! You think you're BETTER than me, DON"T you?!" As
> if anybody with any critical standards at all were being deliberately
> stuck-up and snooty, just to be mean.)


The argument sort of brings up a point on other APAs (defunct or
existing). I guess there are no laws against quality control in
contributing to galleries and APAs or belonging to clicques although I
do question whether the contents of some online art galleries and APAs
that represent "the best" are really just that...such as serialized
stories with no endings, some porn art, drawings with no punchline
point, and highly touted artists who drop out after one or two issues
without any advanced notice or who end up drawing the same type of
picture issue after issue.

Some APAs have members who rag on "fanboys" in their
contributions...with no room for said fanboys (or any non-member) to
write rebuttals or offer even kind of printed feedback on the
contributors' art if they are privileged to see some.

I've read many zines and am lucky enough to subscribe to some as a
non-member. I love the variety and the imagination in each issue but
deep down, there should have been some way that those zines can still
exist today...perhaps if the clicques running things there could have
added new blood or new points of view on the way furry art "is",
rather than sticking only with "The Best" and ignoring the rest.

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