Burned Furs and violence...
Bahumat
don't really expect it to stand up for long. But I do strongly suspect
this is the case:
1. The incident of a fur being pushed down the stairs is true.
2. The burned fur responsible was likely acting alone.
3. His actions are privately condoned by the leaders and members of the
Burned Furs.
4. None of the leaders are stupid enough to support it publicly.
------------------------------------------------------------
A note to any Burned Furs who I may of angered, either through my
anti-BF posts, or my proud support of many fringe groups:
Target me. C'mon. I'll be fair game. You want to send a hit man my way?
He better be packing a lot more than just his hands. Picking on a scared
fur is easy. Trying to bully a pissed off one isn't. I own guns.
And in case the Burned Furs haven't figured it out yet, the day someone
gets publicly hurt because of your groups actions, is the day the Burned
Furs start dying. I doubt more than 5% of your 'membership' condone
violence.
So to repeat a previous post of mine:
You are not welcome in my head.
Bahumat
Farlo
>And in case the Burned Furs haven't figured it out yet, the day someone
>gets publicly hurt because of your groups actions, is the day the Burned
>Furs start dying. I doubt more than 5% of your 'membership' condone
>violence.
The Burned Fur "movement" is already dying.
--
Farlo
Urban fey dragon
"Yes, my e-mail address is valid. It just doesn't look valid."
Bahumat
about some burned furs...
*changes #3 to read*: His actions are privately condones by the leaders
and some of the members of Burned Furs.
If I'm going to make an inflammatory statement like this one, I might as
well get it right.
Bahumat wrote:
>
> Well, I'm about to make an accusation for which I have no proof, so I
> don't really expect it to stand up for long. But I do strongly suspect
> this is the case:
>
> 1. The incident of a fur being pushed down the stairs is true.
>
> 2. The burned fur responsible was likely acting alone.
>
> 3. His actions are privately condoned by the leaders and members of the
> Burned Furs.
>
> 4. None of the leaders are stupid enough to support it publicly.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> A note to any Burned Furs who I may of angered, either through my
> anti-BF posts, or my proud support of many fringe groups:
>
> Target me. C'mon. I'll be fair game. You want to send a hit man my way?
> He better be packing a lot more than just his hands. Picking on a scared
> fur is easy. Trying to bully a pissed off one isn't. I own guns.
>
> And in case the Burned Furs haven't figured it out yet, the day someone
> gets publicly hurt because of your groups actions, is the day the Burned
> Furs start dying. I doubt more than 5% of your 'membership' condone
> violence.
>
Mark Severson
I consider your post to be troll bait, with jet fuel no less. It would be
to everyones benefit if the trolling were stopped. I'm sure most of the
people/furs/whatevers who check this newgroup out have better things to do.
I.e. if you don't have something constructive to say kindly be quiet. Posts
of your type Mr Bahumat are not needed nor are they welcome, at least by
yours truly.
Thank you.
Mark Severson
mar...@spamawayidontcareeoni.com
Bahumat <Bah...@nojunkmail.telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:37C194E7...@nojunk.yahoo.com...
The Luprha'nite
> Well, I'm about to make an accusation for which I have no proof, so I
> don't really expect it to stand up for long. But I do strongly suspect
> this is the case:
>
> 1. The incident of a fur being pushed down the stairs is true.
>
> 2. The burned fur responsible was likely acting alone.
>
> 3. His actions are privately condoned by the leaders and members of the
> Burned Furs.
>
> 4. None of the leaders are stupid enough to support it publicly.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> A note to any Burned Furs who I may of angered, either through my
> anti-BF posts, or my proud support of many fringe groups:
>
> Target me. C'mon. I'll be fair game. You want to send a hit man my way?
> He better be packing a lot more than just his hands. Picking on a scared
> fur is easy. Trying to bully a pissed off one isn't. I own guns.
>
> And in case the Burned Furs haven't figured it out yet, the day someone
> gets publicly hurt because of your groups actions, is the day the Burned
> Furs start dying. I doubt more than 5% of your 'membership' condone
> violence.
>
> So to repeat a previous post of mine:
>
> You are not welcome in my head.
>
> Bahumat
Woo Hoo's and give Bahumat a high five!
You sorta beat me to the punch however, but good nontheless. You will
probably be ignored you know. I ams sure ALOT of the readers of this groups
mail boxes are going to be crammed and filled with message in the next few weeks
overall thjis stuff.
Gheeshh..
Furs, drugs, and politics... WOW!! Where's the art?
Oh.. its not art, its interpretive dancing on needles and pins.
*Snicker*
--
The Luphra'nite
We should police ourselves, as we are our own best censors.
Exeperience and talent are NO excuse for blatent and utter
stupidity.
It's the 90's, god is dead, no one cares, and if there is a hell, its furry and
I
am gonna see you there!!
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
> I don't really expect it to stand up for long. But I do strongly
> suspect this is the case:
>
> 1. The incident of a fur being pushed down the stairs is true.
Well, I did a little investigation. As far as can be determined, this is
false.
> 2. The burned fur responsible was likely acting alone.
There was no Burned Fur involved, because there was no incident.
> 3. His actions are privately condoned by the leaders and members of
> the Burned Furs.
My forwarding the accusation to various BF "Leaders" came as a stotal surprise
to all of them.
> 4. None of the leaders are stupid enough to support it publicly.
Privately either. Considering that they've been spending their time quietly
working on positive things that the antis won't make noise about, that they'd
just had a very positive charity event at AC, and a number of other factors
makes this story totally implausible.
Consider: "Too Afraid to approach security". What? Security would be on your
side regardless of who you were if there were someone assaulting people at the
Con. The "victim" says he told several people about this, yet this is the
first time ANYONE has heard this story. Consider that word got around about
Schirm biting Karno within minutes of the incident, and within half an hour
practically everyone knew, the inflamatory nature of the supposed incident
would have spread throughout the con like wildfire. And within a week I'm
sure it would be at the top of Farlo's top-ten accusations against the BFs.
There are a whole bunch of things about the story that don't ring true, and a
lot of aspects that sound like there were put in just to make it believable to
the gullible, like a spam letter saying that they've had a lawyer check their
ponzi scheme and pronounced it legal.
> A note to any Burned Furs who I may of angered, either through my
> anti-BF posts, or my proud support of many fringe groups:
>
> Target me. C'mon. I'll be fair game. You want to send a hit man my way?
> He better be packing a lot more than just his hands. Picking on a
> scared fur is easy. Trying to bully a pissed off one isn't. I own guns.
Yah, and I bet you've got balls three feet in diameter too. Obviously you
fell for it hook, line and sinker because you WANT to believe it.
How is it that this person got into a fight with someone, but can't name who
he is, or even give a physical description? How is it that none of the four
people he says he told about this has come forward?
You're a sucker.
> And in case the Burned Furs haven't figured it out yet, the day
> someone gets publicly hurt because of your groups actions, is the day
> the Burned Furs start dying. I doubt more than 5% of your
> 'membership' condone violence.
Empty threats and Macho posturing do you no good. And indeed, you could get
busted right there for making terroristic threats. So just cool off and THINK
for a second.
Sheesh.
--
The greatest tragedy is that the same species that achieved space flight,
a cure for polio, and the transistor, is also featured nightly on COPS.
-- Richard Chandler
Spammer Warning: Washington State Law now provides civil penalties for UCE.
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
anon...@hotmail.com> writes:
> Woo Hoo's and give Bahumat a high five!
>
> You sorta beat me to the punch however, but good nontheless.
Ah, so you planned to make the treat that if any one of the BF's actually hurt
someone, you'd go out and start killing them? A FINE model of tolerance you
are.
The Luprha'nite
> In article <37C1FB7D...@hotmail.com>, The Luprha'nite <
> anon...@hotmail.com> writes:
> > Woo Hoo's and give Bahumat a high five!
> >
> > You sorta beat me to the punch however, but good nontheless.
>
> Ah, so you planned to make the treat that if any one of the BF's actually hurt
> someone, you'd go out and start killing them? A FINE model of tolerance you
> are.
> You sorta beat me to the punch however, but good nontheless.
> You sorta beat me to the punch however, but good nontheless.
Read before you reply. 'kay?
I wasn't supporting his idea, but was laughing about it.
Oh well, I proably didn't covey my message.
I wouldn't kill them, probably walk up to them, panting and drooling, and
stick a post it on their head and have 'space for rent' then walk off.
*shrug*
Who the hell knows. Killing someone is dumb, as it would constitue recycling
them to the proverbial gene pool. We already have enough stupid genes
out there, too bad they breed.
For furture note Richard, I don't advocate violence, unless it is warranted. Eye
for an eye, and teh like. Modern american culture should take a stand and get
more balls for thigs, like caining and ball busting, then again, I am just a
reallly hatefull person anymore.
*shrug*
Believe what you will. I could care less.
Bahumat
>and a number of other factors
> makes this story totally implausible.
Well deary, I certainly don't find it implausible at all. It fits the
profile of a number of similar (but non-furry) incidents I have
witnessed or had passed on to me.
*another big snip of stuff that doesn't matter to me*
> > A note to any Burned Furs who I may of angered, either through my
> > anti-BF posts, or my proud support of many fringe groups:
> >
> > Target me. C'mon. I'll be fair game. You want to send a hit man my way?
> > He better be packing a lot more than just his hands. Picking on a
> > scared fur is easy. Trying to bully a pissed off one isn't. I own guns.
>
> Yah, and I bet you've got balls three feet in diameter too. Obviously you
> fell for it hook, line and sinker because you WANT to believe it.
I don't deny that I want to believe it. Pretty sad that someone who once
thought 'Hey, these Burned Furs are right about quite a few things...
just a little extreme.' has gone to the other extreme, eh? But feel free
to blame anything you'd like, as the real reason was the group's (Burned
Fur's) attitude and tolerance level. And 'balls three feet in diameter'?
Gawd, I just love it when someone blows their chance at sounding
rational. ;)
>
> How is it that this person got into a fight with someone, but can't name who
> he is, or even give a physical description? How is it that none of the four
> people he says he told about this has come forward?
>
> You're a sucker.
Maybe I am; but what bearing does that have?
> > And in case the Burned Furs haven't figured it out yet, the day
> > someone gets publicly hurt because of your groups actions, is the day
> > the Burned Furs start dying. I doubt more than 5% of your
> > 'membership' condone violence.
>
> Empty threats and Macho posturing do you no good. And indeed, you could get
> busted right there for making terroristic threats.
'Threats?' 'Terroristic?' Oh, this is *RICH*! Coming from a group that
has had far more accusations of the sort thrown at it recently than I
have... My, this IS an amusing day!
Well deary, I can see how my posting the fact that 'I own guns.' could
be construed as a threat, but I posted it at the time as a fact and
warning. Is a warning an implied threat? Maybe, but all it takes to
avoid the threat would be not to bother me IRL.
As for some of the other threads that claim I plan to 'Serial kill' the
Burned Furs, please allow me to laugh my ass off... same goes for those
that claim I will kill anyone...
I don't believe in unnecessary violence. But if somefur came after ME at
a Con, I would have no qualms with defending myself to whatever extreme
necessary. Defending myself counts as necessary violence, even in a
court of law. But then again, that's how I'd treat *ANYBODY* who came
after me trying to assault me, not just some fur.
Is defending myself to a lethal point extreme? Yep. But then again,
isn't attacking someone physically because of who they associate with
extreme too? Just in case you don't know the answer: Yup.
>So just cool off and THINK for a second.
The one piece of 'advice' of your little reply that I will follow. I now
regret having publicly posted my accusations, but I will not apologize
for them. I continue to believe every item of my accusations against the
burned furs. Posting that part publicly WAS an error, but I cannot, and
will not, recall it. And even at the time, I readily admitted that these
accusations were without proof... I make / made no claim otherwise.
And to repeat my warning beforehand: If you assault me, be ready for the
consequences.
I'll not tone that down any farther.
And one more time, to any group: 'You are not welcome in my head.'
Bahumat (aka Sergeant Flamebait, today) ;)
Cerulean
>As for some of the other threads that claim I plan to 'Serial kill' the
>Burned Furs, please allow me to laugh my ass off... same goes for those
>that claim I will kill anyone...
"The Burned Furs start dying" was a treacherously ambiguous turn of
phrase. This is why everybody should read over their words carefully
before they post them, especially before posting to alt.fan.fury.
--
___vvz /( Absurd Notions is on! -> http://cerulean.st/absurdnotions/
<__,` Z / ( | Cerulean= | DC.D/? f s+ h++ Gm CB^P a $ d+++ l* g- e! i
`~~~) )Z) ( | Kevin Pease | FDDmp4adwsA+++$C+D+HM+P-RT+++WZSm#
/ (7 ( h+a!)oS uo!+ewJojuI - ,,Japuom o+ j7asJnoh 77aL,,
Bahumat
>
> Quoth Bahumat:
>
> >As for some of the other threads that claim I plan to 'Serial kill' the
> >Burned Furs, please allow me to laugh my ass off... same goes for those
> >that claim I will kill anyone...
>
> "The Burned Furs start dying" was a treacherously ambiguous turn of
> phrase. This is why everybody should read over their words carefully
> before they post them, especially before posting to alt.fan.fury.
Hmmm... at the time, I thought it was perfectly clear, but thank you for
pointing it out to me, I would not have caught it otherwise.
I meant that the organization would die as a whole, due to the immense
backlash that would ensue, not due to my personal actions! (Enough with
the thinking that I'm out to kill people already! Yeesh!)
Bahumat
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
Bah...@ihatejunk.telusplanet.net> writes:
> And 'balls three feet in diameter'?
> Gawd, I just love it when someone blows their chance at sounding
> rational. ;)
It was a satire of your macho posturing.
> > > And in case the Burned Furs haven't figured it out yet, the
> > > day someone gets publicly hurt because of your groups actions, is
> > > the day the Burned Furs start dying. I doubt more than 5% of
> > > your 'membership' condone violence.
> >
> > Empty threats and Macho posturing do you no good. And indeed, you
> > could get busted right there for making terroristic threats.
>
> 'Threats?' 'Terroristic?' Oh, this is *RICH*! Coming from a group that
> has had far more accusations of the sort thrown at it recently than I
> have... My, this IS an amusing day!
>
> Well deary, I can see how my posting the fact that 'I own guns.' could
> be construed as a threat, but I posted it at the time as a fact
> and warning. Is a warning an implied threat? Maybe, but all it takes
> to avoid the threat would be not to bother me IRL.
>
> As for some of the other threads that claim I plan to 'Serial kill'
> the Burned Furs, please allow me to laugh my ass off... same goes
> for those that claim I will kill anyone...
I dunno, it seems like really easy math. "I own guns" plus "[they] start
dying". You didn't say anything about that being a threat to you personally,
you just said that "the day someone gets publicly hurt." Anyone.
> Is defending myself to a lethal point extreme? Yep. But then again,
> isn't attacking someone physically because of who they associate
> with extreme too? Just in case you don't know the answer: Yup.
Oh, I fully believe that lethal levels of self defence can be justified, but
you have to prove that you were in actual fear for your life in many
jurisdictions (in some you are required to retreat until retreat is
impossible). If I were to say, call you a dirty dogfucker (whether it's true
or not) and spit on you, and leave, you would have no right to plunge a knife
in my back.
> And to repeat my warning beforehand: If you assault me, be ready for
> the consequences.
That was not what your warning was. "the day someone gets publicly hurt
because of your groups actions, is the day the Burned Furs start dying." Now
if that was just macho posturing and a totally empty threat, then you should
say so, or else we should take you seriously that you plan to systematically
start killing people should you decide that someone's been publicly hurt by
the BF's actions.
Which is it? Are you threatening mass murder, or are you a blowhard?
By the way, I am not a member, so this is not "Coming from a group...." But I
Am on the committee of a convention, and it would help to know if we have a
someone who is potentially a violent psychotic on the grounds.
ilr
> > 1. The incident of a fur being pushed down the stairs is true.
>
> Well, I did a little investigation. As far as can be determined, this is
> false.
>
> > 2. The burned fur responsible was likely acting alone.
>
> There was no Burned Fur involved, because there was no incident.
>
I don't know who first started down this road but it was stupid.
If it was Tigermoon, well it was stupid. What group the aggressor
was a member of is inconsequential to any kind of BF debate here.
The actions of one BF should never be carried over to stereotype
the rest of them.
But Dismissing Her story right off the bat isn't right either because
this was an individual who acted alone and you can never say what one person
is capable of when it comes to violence. "He was always such a nice
quiet man" for instance, the phrase that's become a witness' cliche' in
most homicide rampage news reports, proves how unpredictable
many people can be.
--- i l r
Bahumat
Chandler, then kindly reconsider your notion of 'serial killer'.
>Cerulean wrote:
>
> Quoth Bahumat:
>
> > >As for some of the other threads that claim I plan to 'Serial kill' the
> > >Burned Furs, please allow me to laugh my ass off... same goes for those
> > >that claim I will kill anyone...
>
> > "The Burned Furs start dying" was a treacherously ambiguous turn of
> > phrase. This is why everybody should read over their words carefully
> > before they post them, especially before posting to alt.fan.fury.
>Hmmm... at the time, I thought it was perfectly clear, but thank you for
>pointing it out to me, I would not have caught it otherwise.
>I meant that the organization would die as a whole, due to the immense
>backlash that would ensue, not due to my personal actions! (Enough with
>the thinking that I'm out to kill people already! Yeesh!)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
And sir, if you came up to me and called me 'A dirty dogfucker' and spit
on me, you would have some problems quickly. As any action in real life,
you must be prepared to take responsibility for your actions. Insulting
me to my face, and especially spitting on me, would quickly result in an
angry (and rightfully so!) response. Whether that would be violent or
merely loud would mostly depend on the circumstances and surroundings,
and whether the incident called for either / or response. (FYI, in most
states what you just described is grounds for legal counter-assault, but
I digress, as it's not my point anyway.)
And if you're a committee member, I think you have more important
'psychotics' to worry about. At least I won't go pushing people down
stairs because I don't like who they associate with. I've done enough
apologizing for something I'm not terribly sorry about. Enough of this
BS.
I'm not a killer, but I will defend myself.
I'm not violent, but I will protect myself.
I have dignity, and I will not allow it to be violated. (Except through
my own stupidity.)
I'm not a hater, but I am angry.
I'm not an asshole, depending on your viewpoint. ;)
I'm tolerant, but I won't accept intolerance. (hmm, work THAT one
out...? :|
I'm no longer a supporter of the burned furs, but I do support some of
their motives.
Do I need to clarify myself even more? Oh, most likely, with the natural
nature of the internet... *sighs* Good thing I have a sense of humour,
otherwise I'd really be ranting. :/
Bahumat (still apparently AKA Sergeant Flamebait...) :/
Dr. Cat
: Well, I did a little investigation. As far as can be determined, this is
: false.
Accent on "little", I think. "As far as can be determined", though,
would require more than a little. You could determine farther if you
did more investigation would be my suspicion.
Consider:
: The "victim" says he told several people
I didn't even "investigate" this incident, and I know just from reading
other threads here that the person in question is a she, not a he. How
am I to believe you did any investigating if you don't even know the most
basic and obvious facts about the person involved?
I would think it would be difficult to do any truly significant amount of
investigating and NOT find out at least a few things about the alleged
victim, like their gender. Again, I say "little investigation" is
probably an accurate characterization.
: Consider that word got around about Schirm biting Karno within minutes
: of the incident, and within half an hour practically everyone knew, the
: inflamatory nature of the supposed incident would have spread
: throughout the con like wildfire.
What I read in another thread specified thta it happened on Sunday
evening after the con was over, and presumably a lot of people had
already left. Which certainly precludes any possibility of the story
"spreading through the con like wildfire". Again, if I know this just
from having read the latest posts on alt.fan.furry, and you apparently
haven't heard even this simple, basic detail of the alleged incident,
how can I feel convinced that you've done any significant amount of
"investigation" at all?
I don't know whether the story is true or not, but I think "as far as
could be determined" would be a whole heck of a lot farther than anyone
has bothered to go yet. Posting a bunch of reasons why aspects of a
story seem far-fetched or implausible don't constitute "investigation",
they constitute "speculation". If you want to claim to have
investigated, go dig up facts, interview people who were there that day,
like the con staffer the person claims to have reported it to, talk to
some of their friends and try to find out whether they have a reputation
for being honest or deceptive, and attempt to verify or disprove any
details of the story that can be checked out in any way, rather than
saying whether they seem likely or unlikely. That'd be REAL investigating,
not mere speculation and flaming.
I must say I'm very dissapointed in Mr. Exline's reaction, too. Even if
someone came along who clearly were an abusive liar, for the director of
a major con (actually the fandom's biggest, isn't it?) to respond with an
obnoxious insult seems inappropriate to me. A polite and tasteful
response to a liar, or none at all, would seem to be a more sensible
choice for someone trying to present a good image for Confurence and for
Furry Fandom in general. I, for one, would rather not think Confurence
was being run by some hothead who can't control his temper. I thought
it was supposed to be under more level-headed and sensible management
now than it used to be, not the other way 'round. But I'm beginning to
wonder.
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: I won't claim to have "investigated" Mr. Exline though, the
above wondering is just unsubstantiated speculation on my part. I don't
even know whether he intends to allow nudity at future cabarets, or keep
it out of all future Confurences forever. Nor do I even know whether
he'd give a clear, unambiguous answer to the question if asked. I never
asked him. Anyway I don't think I'll take the time and effort to
investigate him, I think it'd be far more important to find out whether
someone was really pushed down the stairs at Anthrocon or not, and I'm
not even investigating that one. Personally, by the way, if I were a
Burned Fur, I wouldn't even wait to find out whether it was true - I
would come right out and say "I don't know if this really happened, but I
just want to say that most of us strongly condemn the idea of using real
violence to further our ends, and anybody who might ever do so is acting
without our approval and acting against our wishes." What could it hurt
the members of the movement to affirm such a sensible principle at any
opportunity and at any time when there's the least doubt by anybody? It
might show them to be, like, "polite" and stuff too, which could work
towards improving their horribly tarnished public image.)
(Repetitious drivel: Speaking of which, I still think the Burned Furs
should, if they want to be "self appointed cleaners-up of the furry
image", prove to us all that they have any skill whatsoever at cleaning
up images by cleaning up their OWN image. If they demonstrate such
talent I might be more favorably disposed towards their movement. So
far, though, I remain singularly unimpressed. Using a strong obscenity
to reply to someone claiming to have been assaulted by one of your
members doesn't demonstrate much in the way of public relations skills,
not to mention tact, diplomacy, consideration, and just plain manners.)
Cerulean
>Cerulean wrote:
>> "The Burned Furs start dying" was a treacherously ambiguous turn of
>> phrase. This is why everybody should read over their words carefully
>> before they post them, especially before posting to alt.fan.fury.
>
>Hmmm... at the time, I thought it was perfectly clear, but thank you for
>pointing it out to me, I would not have caught it otherwise.
That is one of the advantages of being a moderate instead of belonging
to a "side." I may have actually been the first person to actually see
both possible interpretations of the ambiguous sentence, and determine
which way you probably meant it (from context) and which way it would
more likely be read (out of context). It doesn't seem that difficult
to me, but then, I read a lot.
J. J. Novotny
> 3. His actions are privately condoned by the leaders and members of
> the
> Burned Furs.
I don't condone violence. I strongly oppose it. I hope that the
perpetrator of this crime is brought to justice. Health and safety are
far, far, far more important that any fandom political issue.
Any questions, just ask.
Best;
J. J.
The Luprha'nite
> And sir, if you came up to me and called me 'A dirty dogfucker' and spit
> on me, you would have some problems quickly. As any action in real life,
> you must be prepared to take responsibility for your actions. Insulting
> me to my face, and especially spitting on me, would quickly result in an
> angry (and rightfully so!) response. Whether that would be violent or
> merely loud would mostly depend on the circumstances and surroundings,
> and whether the incident called for either / or response. (FYI, in most
> states what you just described is grounds for legal counter-assault, but
> I digress, as it's not my point anyway.)
*snickers* Well, I would laugh at them, then say PROVE IT, then watch
em get fabergasted and the like. I would snicker, if they spit on me, I
would get a GOOD ole loogie and spit it back. ;) REALLY squirks
someone if they get spit back on, they don't know how to react. ;)
(speaking from experience)
Well from what I gather from an interesting talk with an OLD friend tonight
who runs/works at a pizza/bar, as long as it is within a PRIVATE
establishment, etc pub, hotel, house or what not, you seem to have ever
legal right to bust the face of any assult that comes your way. I am in NO
way advocating this, but telling what I understand. I will have to concure
with a couple of cop friends and couple of my police science buddies
to make absolutely clear on this though.
> And if you're a committee member, I think you have more important
> 'psychotics' to worry about. At least I won't go pushing people down
> stairs because I don't like who they associate with. I've done enough
> apologizing for something I'm not terribly sorry about. Enough of this
> BS.
Well, don't apologize, it only gives your opponents something to try to grill
you over with, or something like that.
> I'm not a killer, but I will defend myself.
I could be, I just choose not to be bubba's girlfriend for 20 to life :P
> I'm not violent, but I will protect myself.
I am violent, but I find other ways then bashing someone's face in to relive my
anger, like kill things in video games, write HTML, draw, or just go out and
trim the trees, hedges and teh like with a sword. :)
> I have dignity, and I will not allow it to be violated. (Except through
> my own stupidity.)
*laughs and nods on that one.*
> I'm not a hater, but I am angry.
I personally hate the world, I am ANGRY and stark raving MAD alot of the times
about they way FURRY is being warped by demented views.
> I'm not an asshole, depending on your viewpoint. ;)
"I'm and assholleeeio.. I'm an assshoolee!! I got the MP3 with dennis leary
singing that ;)
> I'm tolerant, but I won't accept intolerance. (hmm, work THAT one
> out...? :|
It can happen :)
> I'm no longer a supporter of the burned furs, but I do support some of
> their motives.
I personaly have always like a few the ideals as they are good, but who seems to
be running the show needs to step down from their pedistals and let someone else
take charge, and go do something else with their
time.
> Do I need to clarify myself even more? Oh, most likely, with the natural
> nature of the internet... *sighs* Good thing I have a sense of humour,
> otherwise I'd really be ranting. :/
>
> Bahumat (still apparently AKA Sergeant Flamebait...) :/
Well, I wish there was a SERIOUSLY better way to convey humor in text, but I
guess the inflections and the like just arn't the same. I got my ass chewed up
and screwed over a few times in the past because I oops and didn't put words a
certain way, and WHOMP I was screwed because of it. I think there needs to be a
new type of HTML languge with satire and humor tags or seomthign.
Hehe.
Take care, live well, and just hope the buckets don't drain you dry.
The Luprha'nite
> I must say I'm very dissapointed in Mr. Exline's reaction, too. Even if
> someone came along who clearly were an abusive liar, for the director of
> a major con (actually the fandom's biggest, isn't it?) to respond with an
> obnoxious insult seems inappropriate to me.
Dude, Exline is a BF and I think it is seems to be a trait quality, but then
again I am a dispicable and hatefull person myself, just he doesn't seem to
beable to control himself.
Also to Exline, because of your shitty little response as a calous bastard you
get NO support from this fur, and I was going to actually attend the con. :P I
was going to be coming in a nice suit, and some nice things to say about a good
con, now I wonder if it is going to go to hell in a handbasket now because of
your 'real' attitude it seems. *shrug* then again, I could be blowing it out my
ass. Fact remains, you shove your foot way down your throat on that one, and
its gonna take some SERIOUS ass kissing to come back to the top of the food
chain around here.
> a polite and tasteful response to a liar, or none at all, would seem to be a
> more sensible
> choice for someone trying to present a good image for Confurence and for
> Furry Fandom in general. I, for one, would rather not think Confurence
> was being run by some hothead who can't control his temper. I thought
> it was supposed to be under more level-headed and sensible management
> now than it used to be, not the other way 'round. But I'm beginning to
> wonder.
>
> *-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
> Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
> *-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
> Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
> *-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Now that I am not even going to attempt Confurence, I just hope that if another
incident happens at Confurence that happeend at Anthrcon happens, and it doesn't
get handled, the shit drops on Exline for thinking it was a joke or something.
Not because of his standing on things, but because it is apparent he might not
be cut out for it.
The best leaders are always those who are controlled by others and are mearly
puppets for another cause, secret or well known.
Karina Wright
Cerulean wrote in message <37c2ce18...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
>That is one of the advantages of being a moderate instead of belonging
>to a "side." I may have actually been the first person to actually see
>both possible interpretations of the ambiguous sentence, and determine
>which way you probably meant it (from context) and which way it would
>more likely be read (out of context). It doesn't seem that difficult
>to me, but then, I read a lot.
Actually, I only read it as the way he intended it. I was extremely puzzled
by gthe reactions of everyone until your message pointing out the possible
literal interpretation.
Darrel L. Exline
> Also to Exline, because of your shitty little response as a calous bastard you
> get NO support from this fur, and I was going to actually attend the con. :P I
> was going to be coming in a nice suit, and some nice things to say about a good
> con, now I wonder if it is going to go to hell in a handbasket now because of
> your 'real' attitude it seems. *shrug* then again, I could be blowing it out my
> ass. Fact remains, you shove your foot way down your throat on that one, and
> its gonna take some SERIOUS ass kissing to come back to the top of the food
> chain around here.
...
> Now that I am not even going to attempt Confurence, I just hope that if another
> incident happens at Confurence that happeend at Anthrcon happens, and it doesn't
> get handled, the shit drops on Exline for thinking it was a joke or something.
> Not because of his standing on things, but because it is apparent he might not
> be cut out for it.
If anything happens at ConFurence, I would have done the same thing that Kage
would have done if anything had happened at Anthrocon. BUT IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!
There's just too much evidence against the possibility, and only people's
willingness to believe a BF *could* have done this, and that Tygermoon *could*
have been too scared to report it, and that her AnthroCon Staff roomate was too
stupid to tell Kage about it, and the other two friends she told and who remain
unnamed were too gutless to go and thrash this guy... and even though Tygermoon
has stated that she doesn't think this guy could possibly find out her RL name
she STILL WONT TELL ANYONE who he is... do you see where I'm coming from? It
simply didn't happen.
If anything like this is reported to me about ConFurence, I WILL DEFINITELY
FOLLOW IT UP. You don't know me, you don't know anything about me except that
you have attached several prejudices about Burned Furs and the fact that I could
see through Tygermoon's lie and wasn't afraid to say so. HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY
THINK that I would allow anyone to be abused at a convention that I am running?
You just like to stereotype.. it's easier to make sense of it than to actually
think for a little while.
If an incident like this ever happened, AT ANY EVENT I WAS AT, then you can sign
me up to be on the lynch mob (well, at least to make sure the person got
arrested). BUT IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. How can I make this any clearer? If it had,
things would be quite different.
If you can see beyond your anti-BF prejudice and realize that Tygermoon lied
about this whole mess, and then decide that you might want to come to CF after
all becaus it's going to be the best convention of the year, then I will be
pleased to host you as Co-chair.
If you indeed decide not to attend CF11, then you can hear afterwards from your
friends how much fun they had.
I invite you to choose the opportunity to have fun instead.
--Darrel L. Exline.
kodak
> > Also to Exline, because of your shitty little response as a calous
bastard you
> > get NO support from this fur, and I was going to actually attend the
con. :P
Good Riddance. No animal-rapists (i.e. z00philes) should be welcome at ANY
furry convention -- especially not in a state (California) where BESTIALITY
IS ILLEGAL.
Time to go elsewhere Trigem/Luprha'nite. Your kind are not wanted here.
Allen Kitchen
"Darrel L. Exline" wrote:
> If you can see beyond your anti-BF prejudice and realize that Tygermoon lied
> about this whole mess, and then decide that you might want to come to CF after
> all becaus it's going to be the best convention of the year, then I will be
> pleased to host you as Co-chair.
I suspect Luph was taken aback by the tone of your response. I was merely
puzzled by it, as it seemed very out of character for you and I thought for
a moment that someone was forging your header. Rather than being an Anti-BF
sentiment, I'd hazard to guess it is more a reaction to one of the SMOF
baring his teeth and snarling so savagely.
Like you, I believe Tygermoon has, at best, embellished an event all out of
proportion. And for that matter, just who IS tygermoon anyway? As far as I
know, she's not posted here or on ALF before her bombshell posting. Could the
post be from some troll we've not seen before?
And of course CF will still be a fun con. Why would that be any different?
Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
S.J.Laitila
That was a strong hit in the balls.
Ten points.
Dr. Cat
: I suspect Luph was taken aback by the tone of your response. I was merely
: a moment that someone was forging your header. Rather than being an Anti-BF
: sentiment, I'd hazard to guess it is more a reaction to one of the SMOF
File me in the "taken aback" category. But that much is already very
obvious from my other posts. Even if Tygermoon is lying, is there any
reason to say she's "full of shit" instead of attempting to debunk and
disprove the story politely?
I don't think it's at all surprising that people are uneasy about how
similar situations might be handled at Confurence. If someone makes
some claim there, and the facts don't back it up, are they going to
get snarled at and called full of shit too? Or is the situation going
to be dealt with in a calm, polite, and professional manner?
: And of course CF will still be a fun con. Why would that be any different?
That I have no doubt of. It's just unfortunate that alt.fan.furry
continues to present an impression of furry cons that makes people
think they'd be unpleasant to go to. And that comes from BOTH sides
of these arguments. Whether it's the "I was attacked in a stairway"
side or the "You're full of shit" side, both make it sound to a newcomer
like the fandom is a nasty place full of people that simply can't get
along with each other. And who would want to come to a con full of
furry fans after hearing that?
Very poor PR, all in all, I have to say. But it's misleading, the cons
actually are quite fun.
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: Stranger things happen, I see.)
insh...@veritas.awk
: . . . fandom is a nasty place . . .
A-fucking-men
: And who would want to come to a con full of
: furry fans after hearing that?
The same social retards, chronic masturbators, and future Megan's
Law candidates that show up for all the other cons.
I weep for the cleaning staff after these freakshows have slimed
their way to conclusion.
: But it's misleading, the cons actually are quite fun.
Provided you're not offended by odious personal behavior, a lack
of social mores and sexual deviancy that would make Peter Sotos
vomit.
The Lupra'nite
> The same social retards, chronic masturbators, and future Megan's
> Law candidates that show up for all the other cons.
And you would doink any one of them that would throw themselves upon you.
> I weep for the cleaning staff after these freakshows have slimed
> their way to conclusion.
The only SLIME i have ever seen is spilled shampoo in the bathrooms.
Attend one, you'd be amazed.
> : But it's misleading, the cons actually are quite fun.
>
> Provided you're not offended by odious personal behavior, a lack
> of social mores and sexual deviancy that would make Peter Sotos
> vomit.
Well, since Anthrcon last year, things have become VERY tidy in and out of the
rooms. You hardly see the 'lewd' acts that everyone claims.
Get out more often, you'd be suprised that the world really is much better then
the oyster shell it is claimed to be.
--
Thé ŁůPhrŞnítÉ rÜŁé˛
DougG A#344
<Bah...@nojunkmail.telusplanet.net> wrote:
>Well, I'm about to make an accusation for which I have no proof, so I
>don't really expect it to stand up for long. But I do strongly suspect
>this is the case:
>
>1. The incident of a fur being pushed down the stairs is true.
Don't know.
>2. The burned fur responsible was likely acting alone.
Id HOPE so.
>3. His actions are privately condoned by the leaders and members of the
>Burned Furs.
Bullshit. I'd never do anything like that. Geralizations about a
group are predjudice, pure and simple.
>4. None of the leaders are stupid enough to support it publicly.
AH! So its all part of the "SECRET PLOT!"
>A note to any Burned Furs who I may of angered, either through my
>anti-BF posts, or my proud support of many fringe groups:
Are there any non fringe furry groups? : ]
>Target me. C'mon. I'll be fair game. You want to send a hit man my way?
I see, its the secret plot against YOU SPECIFICALLY! Youve stopped
taking your meds again haven't you? ; ]
>He better be packing a lot more than just his hands. Picking on a scared
>fur is easy. Trying to bully a pissed off one isn't. I own guns.
Voilence! Wonderful! They "someone" are after you.... You have guns
and you are going to shoot them. What happens next? You start
preventing violence by shooting them first? I'm glad the forces of
love and understanding have such wonderful people representing
them..... : [
>And in case the Burned Furs haven't figured it out yet, the day someone
>gets publicly hurt because of your groups actions, is the day the Burned
>Furs start dying. I doubt more than 5% of your 'membership' condone
>violence.
We DON'T condone vilence you ass! I'm tired of being lied about by
hate happy bigots who think they are automatically ther good guys and
can do no wrong. and that all dissent MUST be silenced.....
I have been called horible names and accused of some terrible things
for BF involvement which is supposed to make me the big bad homophobe
whatever.......... You know, I rent half of my house to a gay furry
lifestyler couple..... More of my "Violence" I suppose.............
And yesterday I took a TS fur friend of mine To the Renaissance
festival, I spent a day watching a person who wouldn't harm a fly get
razzed and harased for no reason other than being different. I managed
to get in at least one fight over this and more nasty confrontations
than you could shake a stick at. "And as my stick is a 4 foot lenght
of hardwood with a knot on the end it's a damn good thing I didn't
wind up in the jug."
"My TS friend is also on the BF list by the way."
The whole thing made me damn angry, I stand up for the rights of
others to their own personal choices. I resent them insisting that
their personal choices are defacto right for everyone, or that their
choices have to be acceptable for me or I am somehow a "Hatemonger."
I became a member of BF becauce after 10 years of explaining to non
furs that I wasn't a Zoo, and being asked by furs at conventions, what
was i doning at cons if I wasn't A: gay or B:a mucker/lifestyler I
simply got tired of the morals police telling me what I had to do to
be a citizen. And yes, the left has as many "If not more" morals
police than the right could ever dream of.
If someone really hurt someone and you can prove it, The first thing
to do is to see if they are on the BF list, if they are, then it can
be dealt with BF does NOT support violent action.
If someone DID do these things and claimed BF approval and BF found
out about it, the afforementioned person would be thrown out hard
enough to bounce.
>So to repeat a previous post of mine:
>You are not welcome in my head.
If you think any group is, or can be "In your head" without your
specific consent, you are in serious need of psychiatric help.
Ther is a difference between accepting and condoning someones
actions.
Moral judgements have to be an individual thing. The momemt any moral
judgement leaves the individual and becomes the property of ANY
collective group, it ceases to be individual choice, and becomes a
political tool.
I am a burned Fur I am not a Racist, I am not a sexist, and I am
certainly not a homophobe. I am also a Republican, and an atheist. I
am pro choice, pro sex, pro pagan, pro gun and pro responsiblity.
I am simply tired of seeing the people like you and Learfox who are
so closed minded that even Ben BRuin looks like a freethinker in
comparison. Run down somthing based on what you want it to be rather
than what it is.
Being closminded is no more a virtue for the left than it is for the
right.
observ...@yahoo.com Atheist#344
Wanderer
I hate to break this to you, but ... it isn't that bad. Even the ones who
don't like it admit that it couldn't be *that* bad, as otherwise the hotels
wouldn't want CF back year after year.
Slime? My goodness, what have *you* been reading?
Yours with a strong Victorian streak,
The wolfish,
Wanderer**wand...@ticnet.com
Where am I going?I don't quite know.
What does it matter where people go?
Down to the woods where the bluebells grow.
Anywhere! Anywhere! *I*don't know!
Jazmyn Concolor
the Novel list and a bunch not listed, go to:
http://www.confurence.com/bookstore/
Note that the bookstore, though on the CF website, is independently
maintained.
People seeking books about real animals and pet care can go to the site
in my .sig and go to the bookstore there.
--
National Alternative Pet Association
http://www.altpet.net/
Protect Rights of Exotic Pet Owners and sign our petition at:
http://www.altpet.net/petition/index.shtml
Joe McCauley
<jaz...@firstlight.net> wrote:
>For those wondering where to buy furry books. Both the ones listed in
>the Novel list and a bunch not listed, go to:
>
>http://www.confurence.com/bookstore/
IIRC, the Confurence bookstore page has a bunch of hyperlinks to
amazon.com. Also note that may of the books on the list are out of print,
and you'd probably have better luck trying to find them at
http://www.abebooks.com
Some out of print books are easy to find if you have access to at least two
or three decent used bookstores in your community. Most of the
"Spellsinger" series, for instance. Others are much harder to come by and
you'd do best to stick with online ordering. There are also a few that are
out of print in the US, or were never in print, but which are still in
print in the UK or Canada and can be ordered from online bookstores in
those countries. William Horwood's "Duncton" series, for instance.
Good reading!!!
--
Joe McCauley
"How many camels can dance in the eye of a needle?"
Vulpsturm
There was only a few security guards roaming around and you could just walk
around safe and sound. Now we've got riot police trapseing around and all
sorts of Anit-this-and-that organizations. Then the accusations start by a
few anarchinists and soon REAL stuff is going to start happening and then there
won't be any cons PERIOD.
Vulp...@AOL.com
Tim Gadd
> Remember when the Furry scene was nice and everyone tolerated one another?
No...
--
Tim Gadd | fluke .com
Hobart, Tasmania | @southcom
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/1161/
"Hear me! I am such and such. Above all, do not confuse me with another!"
Nietzsche: ecce homo
Dr. Cat
: and then there won't be any cons PERIOD.
You must be new here, and missed out on all the predictions of the End Of
Furry Fandom As We Know It that the doom and gloom crowd would post here
years ago. You're a little late to point it out now, as in fact it
turned out that they were right, and the furry fandom has been totally
wiped out, destroyed, and annihilated by its Hugely Important Problems
a grand total of 437 times now.
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: Luckily, people like it so much that every time it's
destroyed, all the fans found it again from scratch in 1.3 seconds,
making it exactly like it was before it was destroyed. Not bad huh?)
Kay Shapero
DC>(Disclaimer: Luckily, people like it so much that every time it's
DC>destroyed, all the fans found it again from scratch in 1.3
DC>seconds,
DC>making it exactly like it was before it was destroyed. Not bad
DC>huh?)
<snicker> Sounds good to me.
I updated the following awhile back (adding a lot of stuff to the end), so
even if you've seen it before you might be interested in the following:
http://pw2.netcom.com/~nshapero/essays.htm