Drooling Fannie From Hell & Wannabe Publisher
Tygger
[SNNAAAAARRRRLLLL]
Yah, I'm here with another rant.
What this time? Drooling fannie from hell and wannabe publisher.
What brought this on? I just received several harassing phonecalls from
Michael Hirtes.
He tried his damnest to get me to drop Gallery and send the illos I
already had slated for #16 to him instead, to alter some of my old
illos into new "originals" and send those to him, to stop work on art for
a con that's coming up in two weeks and do new stuff for him, and to top
it all, insulted both Terrie and I one sentence.
Has anyone else out there had this problem, or am I just special?
The thing I didn't care for was the tone of I "owed" him. --snort--
Right. *I* owed HIM. For what?!
Nothing. He's never bought any of my art at cons, he's never bought a
print, he's never bought any Tigerwing Press products. I'm also willing
to bet that the only art of mine he has, IF he has ANY, are pirated,
low-quality black and white copies.
After hanging up on him twice then getting on Netcom to stop any more
calls (he called back in the amount of time it took to use his
speed-dialer), I realized a few things...
This is the type of fanboy that drives artists up a wall, that makes
artists NOT want to contribute to fanzines out there, and why most
artists are so hard to get in direct touch with.
This type of fanboy, what I call a fannie, hurts furfandom more than the
drooling fanboy. How? With the drooling fanboy, you can do the verbal
swat on the nose with a newspaper (though sometimes it has to be the
Sunday edition) and they'll get the message (though some take longer than
others). With a fannie, they demand you do work for THEM, they don't
care you've got your own deadlines to meet (theirs are far more
important), they want you to be their artslave, they fish for inside info
on you, and they have the attitude that they MADE you, they can BREAK you.
I then realized this is the type of lifeform that had been hounding me for
five years.
Then I wondered: how many other artists have had that problem? How many
other artists have withdrawn from furfandom because of the fannies
hounding them? How many artists have stopped contributing to fanzines or
are very wary of doing so because of fannies demanding free art? How
many artists have had their rep hurt and sometimes destroyed because of
the fannies had "dirt" on the artist and spread it?
I know of one artist who's had this problem and with THIS particular
fannie. In fact, his rep has taken a horrible beating and this
particular fannie has been hounding him for a few years.
The question of why does furfandom have such a bad rep has come up more
than once at cons and here. After writing what I did above this thought
came to mind: what if it's been the fannies and their actions who've
added to the negative rep of furfandom?
Think about it...because of the words of a fannie, an artist now has the
rep of being a drug user and/or a drug dealer. This gets passed around
and circles farther and farther like a ripple. I've heard this rumour
from someone in a completely different fandom. This version: this artist
is a dealer who covers as an artist and is a major pusher in furfandom.
This has got to stop. These type of fanboys are HURTING fandom, artists,
writers, the fen...ALL of us.
What can be done? Simple. When one hears the rumours, SAY NOTHING.
Take time to find the truth of the matter and if you must say something,
spread the truth instead. I do that as do others I know. If enough people
in furfandom start damage control, then perhaps, just perhaps, furfandom's
rep could start being seen in a more positive light.
--sigh-- One can hope.
[clink...clink...ok, clink]
TTFN!
Tygger
--
******************************************************************************
Look! Tygger's Done Something NEW! Look For Them In Gallery 16! Tygger
Will Be At The Following Cons In `94: Con Dor (San Diego 3/4-6), Bay Con
(San Jose, Memorial Day weekend), Comic Con (San Diego 8/4-7), Phil Con
(Philadelphia :tentative:) Tygger's Got New Prints! Email ME! Tygger's
Got Calendars! Email Me! What The Hell...EMAIL ME!!
Tigerwing Press/ Tygger Prints!
6250 Holabird St. #1, San Diego, CA 92120-3545
Conrad Wong
>What brought this on? I just received several harassing phonecalls from
>Michael Hirtes.
And I thought that kind of fanboy was just a myth... Maybe I've just been
lucky. ('gryn)
>After hanging up on him twice then getting on Netcom to stop any more
>calls (he called back in the amount of time it took to use his
>speed-dialer), I realized a few things...
This is harassment. You can call the police and get them to intervene
if he keeps this kind of behavior up. Similarly, spreading rumors is
libel.
>Then I wondered: how many other artists have had that problem? How many
>other artists have withdrawn from furfandom because of the fannies
>hounding them? How many artists have stopped contributing to fanzines or
>are very wary of doing so because of fannies demanding free art? How
>many artists have had their rep hurt and sometimes destroyed because of
>the fannies had "dirt" on the artist and spread it?
I just got here! ('gryn) I've had polite requests from people pushing
their risque 'zines, but nothing like this. Purrhaps it's because Lia
Graf is a name that's been around five years or more? And because
erotic art is more in-demand around those kinds of furry circles?
>What can be done? Simple. When one hears the rumours, SAY NOTHING.
>Take time to find the truth of the matter and if you must say something,
>spread the truth instead. I do that as do others I know. If enough people
>in furfandom start damage control, then perhaps, just perhaps, furfandom's
>rep could start being seen in a more positive light.
I'd say, if one spots someone spreading rumors, one should ask that person
to desist when the truth has been brought to light... If they don't desist,
then that person should be 'blackballed'-- identified as a troublemaker.
Same if they keep harassing you for freebies, demanding, guilt-tripping,
or black-mailing you into doing things for them. I'm sure other furry
writers and artists are also interested in how to *avoid* these kinds of
people and would *thank* you for letting them know.
Then again, you just let us all know about a potential trouble-maker. ('gryn)
-- Lynx
--
__ ___ ___ _/' Name: Conrad "Lynx" Wong
/ \ _/ \----' \-' O`-g Address: 28368 Christopher's Lane
| | / > __/_ / __/_`, _| Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
\__/ \____\`--\____\ ;/' E-mail: ly...@netcom.com
Lynx is "AL" Go B Y++ L++ C++++ T++ A-- H++ S++ V+ F- Q+ P+ B PA+ PL++
(see rec.pets.cats for code explanation or E-mail me and ask)
Jazmyn Concolor
>
>Yah, I'm here with another rant.
>
>What this time? Drooling fannie from hell and wannabe publisher.
>
>What brought this on? I just received several harassing phonecalls from
>Michael Hirtes.
>
>He tried his damnest to get me to drop Gallery and send the illos I
>already had slated for #16 to him instead, to alter some of my old
>illos into new "originals" and send those to him, to stop work on art for
>a con that's coming up in two weeks and do new stuff for him, and to top
>it all, insulted both Terrie and I one sentence.
>
Yeah..We know him. He calls here all the time and bugs Sy to death.
From all I've heard the guy is a clueless twink and you should ignore him.
I've luckily avoided the guy by passing the phone off to someone else..
Greywolf
> What brought this on? I just received several harassing phonecalls from
> Michael Hirtes.
Ohhhhhhh, so he's called you, too? I just got a call from him a few days ago
myself, trying to get me to get involved in "Midnight Sands" and some other
'zine that I understand to have a certain amount of erotic content, despite his
convenient omitting of those little details. I told him I'd send him some
*samples*, which I'll do, but just to be safe, I'm stamping "Not for
publication" right across the front of each one. I'm not even sure why he was
calling, because at first it sounded as if he was greatly misinformed as to the
type of artwork I do, and I wasn't entirely sure that he really had seen any of
my work.
It was kind of funny, though, when he asked me if I was a "Dittohead", and
when, for brevity, I just said "yes", he goes on, "Well, that's the great thing
about America: You can believe whatever you want to". =)
> This is the type of fanboy that drives artists up a wall, that makes
> artists NOT want to contribute to fanzines out there, and why most
> artists are so hard to get in direct touch with.
Yep. It kind of annoys me when I get called up about this sort of thing.
Particularly because he originally called for *John* Peacock (my dad), because
he'd gotten the number through calling information. (sigh) My dad looked a
little peeved when he finally called me up to give me the phone. Dunno what
*he* heard from the guy.
--
-Jordan .. PEACO...@cobra.uni.edu "Q: How many Dadaists does it
.OO. Jordan Greywolf (Jordan Peacock) take to change a lightbulb?"
O/\O 1610 Parker
~~ Cedar Falls, IA 50613 "A: Fish."
Radical right-winger fundamentalist ultra-conservative religious fanatic
critterfan/miniatures-hobbyist/wargamer/sculptor/composer-wannabe/pilot/
student/programmer/doodler/writer/SwordTagger/mek and old car enthusiast
anta...@news.delphi.com
>In article <tyggerCL...@netcom.com> tyg...@netcom.com (Tygger) writes:
>>What brought this on? I just received several harassing phonecalls from
>>Michael Hirtes.
>>... [description of fanboy from hell deleted]
>And I thought that kind of fanboy was just a myth... Maybe I've just been
>lucky. ('gryn)
>>After hanging up on him twice then getting on Netcom to stop any more
>>calls (he called back in the amount of time it took to use his
>>speed-dialer), I realized a few things...
I haven't seen the original message from Lia on this yet (the followup
arrived before the original), but based on these snippets I grok what Lia
is talking about.
Over a year ago, I was dealing with Mike Hirtes, helping him publish his
fanzines, Furplay and Midnight Sands. His mother had *just* passed
away, and he needed a little help at the time.
After a while, he started calling me more and more. I told him to
xstop calling me - write me letters instead. So, Mike would write a
letter, then call a few days later to see if If I had received the
letter yet. Finally, I told him to stop calling me, PERIOD.
Then, he started harrassing me here at work - usually calling me
in the middle of the day, a couple times a week. Once he called
seven times in one day.
Finally, just before San Diego CC, cut *all* ties - and
refused to speak with him. He's just too hard to deal with.
I now have a new, unlisted phone number, and refuse to give out
my personal phone number to ANYONE, because of Michael Hirtes.
I know several other people who have done the same, or similar
actions.
In any case, to anyone reading this, I strongly advise against
dealing with Michael Hirtes, and NEVER give him your phone #.
Yes, Virginia, there are Fanboys From Hell.
Cheers,
- mlh
Tygger
: Ohhhhhhh, so he's called you, too? I just got a call from him a few days ago
: myself, trying to get me to get involved in "Midnight Sands" and some other
: 'zine that I understand to have a certain amount of erotic content, despite his
: convenient omitting of those little details. I told him I'd send him some
That'd be Furplay. And he's very adept at misleading an artist to get
what he wants.
: *samples*, which I'll do, but just to be safe, I'm stamping "Not for
: publication" right across the front of each one. I'm not even sure why he was
DO IT!! DON'T give him any freebies!
: calling, because at first it sounded as if he was greatly misinformed as to the
: type of artwork I do, and I wasn't entirely sure that he really had seen any of
: my work.
He probably hasn't and more than likely got your name from someone out
there or had found it in another furry zine.
: It was kind of funny, though, when he asked me if I was a "Dittohead", and
: when, for brevity, I just said "yes", he goes on, "Well, that's the great thing
: about America: You can believe whatever you want to". =)
--sigh-- Typical.
: Yep. It kind of annoys me when I get called up about this sort of thing.
: Particularly because he originally called for *John* Peacock (my dad), because
: he'd gotten the number through calling information. (sigh) My dad looked a
: little peeved when he finally called me up to give me the phone. Dunno what
: *he* heard from the guy.
Word of warning to ALL out there: Michael Hirtes collects phone numbers
and will pass them out to any who want them. That is why as of Tues, Feb
22, I am changing mine and will be unlisted. The only way to contact me
will be snailmail, email, or at cons.
I also have been given the information that Hirtes has been harassing
another artist, calling every other day. I know he's harassed others in
the past.
I've been passing the word onto my friends about Hirtes. I strongly
request that others do as well. Warn your artist friends about him.
Don't let him get away with this harassment any longer!
I learned Sunday my hunch about Hirtes spreading dirt on me was right. I
had contacted Mauser right after the last phone call from Hirtes, leaving a
message on his machine. When Mauser called back, I learned Hirtes'
message was the one right after mine. Coincidence? I think not.
And the interesting thing is, Mauser hadn't spoken to Hirtes in awhile.
Does anyone else have any FACTUAL FIRSTHAND INFO on other fannies? If so,
why not post it here? Be sure to include specific incidents on the fannie.
Please, ONLY factual and firsthand info. I can't stress that point
enough. We don't need anymore rumour mongering.
Why am I calling for this? Why have I posted what I know?
Simple. I am sick and tired of running damage control on the lies these
slimeballs spread. I am sick and tired of hearing about how an artist,
who's only "wrong doing" was being an artist, has gone into the woodwork,
hardly to be heard from because of the actions of ONE fannie.
I'm sick of all this and I don't think I'm the only one.
[clink...clink]
jlmi...@hamp.hampshire.edu
ava...@wings.micro.umn.edu (Timothy Fay) writes:
>Seeing some of the readers of this newsgroup refer to Mr. Hirtes as a
>"fanboy from Hell" calls to mind images of pots and kettles. I prefer
>to think of it as Karma. Whether its good or bad depends, I guess, on
>which end of the phone you are on. :)
>
>--
>
Tim...I have to ask...are you really looking to get flamed, or are you just
being obtuse? I mean, blatantly (and uncalled for) inflammatory remarks are
bad nettiquette to say the least, and quite malicious otherwise.
jonathan, who stands amazed at Mr. Fay...
puma
>I now have a new, unlisted phone number, and refuse to give out
>my personal phone number to ANYONE, because of Michael Hirtes.
>I know several other people who have done the same, or similar
>actions.
Using the phone on your own terms is the reason many folks use an
answering machine to screen calls. It's really hard to not give out
your phone number, there are so many legitimate people who need it.
We get so many wrong numbers, people selling things, surveys, etc., that
the machine answers all the calls. We monitor, and if it's someone we
want to talk to we pick up and talk. Some we would rather call back at
a more convenient time, and others NEVER get called back. Some just
refuse to leave a message and hang up.
I'm really waiting for callerid, which is approved here but not yet
available. I intend to set up a pc to take the id and display the name
on the screen so we can answer some calls without letting the machine
get it. And some, the chronic bad guy list, will get answered by the
pc with a beep and hung up on, no sense even letting them get to the
answering machine.
Timothy Fay
"fanboy from Hell" calls to mind images of pots and kettles. I prefer
to think of it as Karma. Whether its good or bad depends, I guess, on
which end of the phone you are on. :)
--
Reply to: ava...@wings.micro.umn.edu
fayx...@maroon.tc.umn.edu
"My mental facilities are TWICE what yours are -- you pea brain!"
-Percival McLeach
Steve Arlow
>In article <2kbv6r$h...@news.delphi.com>
>anta...@news.delphi.com (ANTA...@DELPHI.COM) writes:
>
>We get so many wrong numbers, people selling things, surveys, etc., that
>the machine answers all the calls. We monitor, and if it's someone we
>want to talk to we pick up and talk. Some we would rather call back at
>a more convenient time, and others NEVER get called back. Some just
>refuse to leave a message and hang up.
Funny, I am always quite polite to telemarketers -- yet *they* seem to
be the ones who hang up on *me*. :) Sample conversation (on my
*personal* line, not the business one):
Me: "Hello?"
TM: "Hi, may I speak to... umm... 'Steven Arlow' please?"
Me: "This is he."
TM: "Hi, Steve, how are you doing today?"
^^^^^^^^^
Me: "Excuse me?"
TM: "How are you?"
Me: "I'm sorry, I don't recognize your voice. May I ask who is
calling?"
TM: "This is Mary Smith from International Whatzit. Steve, I'm calling
^^^^^
you today tell you about important new developments in whatzit
technology. Do you own any whatzits?"
Me: "I'm sorry, Ms. Smith, you seem to have me at a disadvantage. I
can't recall meeting you, or doing business with your company..."
TM: Oh, you don't know me, Steve, I --"
^^^^^
Me: *ahem* "I am 'Mr. Arlow', if you please."
TM: "I'm sorry, Ste- Mr. Arlow, I'm calling you today tell you about
some important new developments in whatzit technology. Do you
own any whatzits?"
Me: "Excuse me, what company did you say you worked for again?"
TM: *click*
See what I mean? :)
Salesmen who refuse to address me respectfully, and instead call me by
my first name to create an illusion of friendship in order to sell me
something, are qutie obnoxious. Worse are the "police charities",
where a man claiming to be a local police officer calls you, asking
for money for some cause or another. If you turn them down, they start
calling late at night, identifying themselves as police officers, then
threatening to delay or withold police response to emergencies if you
do not donate...
What I've taken to doing is keeping a log near my desk, and asking them
twice for their name and the organization they represent, wile I write
it down with the time of their call. Then I politely tell them I'm not
interested, and hang up. Since I started doing this, I've had no more
of these extortion attempts.
>I'm really waiting for callerid, which is approved here but not yet
>available. I intend to set up a pc to take the id and display the name
>on the screen so we can answer some calls without letting the machine
>get it. And some, the chronic bad guy list, will get answered by the
>pc with a beep and hung up on, no sense even letting them get to the
>answering machine.
Bah. :( I block "caller ID" on ALL of my calls. Anyone who wants to
screen out my calls can go hire a secretary.
--
"There's no limitation to mixin' and matchin' / Some get an itchin' for a
critter they've been scratchin' / A skunk was "badgered", the results were
strong..." -- Rowlf, "I Hope That Something Better Comes Along", Muppet Movie
Steve Arlow/39336 Polo Club Dr #103/Farmington Hls. MI 48335/s...@umcc.umich.edu
Steve Arlow
check the front of your phone book. There may be other ways, too... Why
not post a question to alt.2600? ;)
Greywolf
> In any case, to anyone reading this, I strongly advise against
> dealing with Michael Hirtes, and NEVER give him your phone #.
Like that's going to stop him. <grumble> He's apparently learned the wonders
of dialing Information. =P
puma
>>I'm really waiting for callerid, which is approved here but not yet
>>available. I intend to set up a pc to take the id and display the name
>>on the screen so we can answer some calls without letting the machine
>>get it. And some, the chronic bad guy list, will get answered by the
>>pc with a beep and hung up on, no sense even letting them get to the
>>answering machine.
>s...@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (Steve Arlow) writes:
>Bah. :( I block "caller ID" on ALL of my calls. Anyone who wants to
>screen out my calls can go hire a secretary.
Well, my intention is to identify the 'good guys' and catch calls from
them without the answering machine getting them, and where possible
identify 'bad guys' and zap them. If you choose to block caller-ID,
that's fine with me, but you'll get the machine. Screening calls with
an answering machine is VERY effective on telemarketers - they usually
just hang up.
--
puma on FurryMUCK (come visit!)
--
pu...@netcom.com
puma
>Seeing some of the readers of this newsgroup refer to Mr. Hirtes as a
>"fanboy from Hell" calls to mind images of pots and kettles. I prefer
>to think of it as Karma. Whether its good or bad depends, I guess, on
>which end of the phone you are on. :)
Puma wonders if you've had any personal contact with Mr. Hirtes.
Hearing the remarks from several folks who have, over a period of time,
doesn't leave much doubt in my mind about "good or bad Karma" - why,
if you care to talk about it, would you possibly want to defend him?
Timothy Fay
>In Article <CLMuD...@news.cis.umn.edu>
>ava...@wings.micro.umn.edu (Timothy Fay) writes:
>>Seeing some of the readers of this newsgroup refer to Mr. Hirtes as a
>>"fanboy from Hell" calls to mind images of pots and kettles. I prefer
>>to think of it as Karma. Whether its good or bad depends, I guess, on
>>which end of the phone you are on. :)
>
>being obtuse? I mean, blatantly (and uncalled for) inflammatory remarks are
>bad nettiquette to say the least, and quite malicious otherwise.
The posts I've read so far about Mr. Hirtes could be considered libelous
at worst and in questionable taste at best. Calling someone a "fanboy
from Hell"--now _that's_ malicious and inflammatory, and a much greater
breach of 'netiquette' than anything I said in the above paragraph.
jlmi...@hamp.hampshire.edu
marm...@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (Major Matt Mason) writes:
>In article <CLop...@news.cis.umn.edu>, ava...@wings.micro.umn.edu
>(Timothy Fay) wrote:
>>
>> jlmi...@hamp.hampshire.edu wrote:
>> >Tim...I have to ask...are you really looking to get flamed, or are you just
>> >being obtuse? I mean, blatantly (and uncalled for) inflammatory remarks are
>> >bad nettiquette to say the least, and quite malicious otherwise.
>>
>> at worst and in questionable taste at best. Calling someone a "fanboy
>> from Hell"--now _that's_ malicious and inflammatory, and a much greater
>> breach of 'netiquette' than anything I said in the above paragraph.
>
>
>=============================================================================
Vote noted, and agreed with. Tim...it's not libel if it's provable and Tygger
and Jordon _have_ cited specific instances. You, however, are just inviting
(no, asking for) flames. _That's_ bad nettiquette...in fact, I've known folx
to have accounts pulled over things like that.
Oh, calling Mr Hirtes (who I do not know) a "fanboy from hell" is indeed a
subjective judgement...it might be malicious (_if_ Mr. Hirtes takes direct
offense), but it's not inflammatory as he doesn't actually read this group.
(Or, at the very least, he doesn't _post_ to it.) Your comment, however, was
general, not specific, and directed against several people who you have
(again, subjectively) posted maliciously against in the past. This being a
_general_ statement, and _inviting_ angry response, it _would_ be considered
inflammatory.
As I've said, I don't know Mr. Hirtes. In fact, when it comes down to it, I
don't really know you...or Tugger...or anyone on this list. My only impressions
of all of you come from your posts. Please think on that...as it is, I've
a negative impression of you from your two posts on this subject...in fact,
you give the impression of a person who very much wishes to be argued with,
picked on...in fact, hated. If I'm wrong in that idea, I suggest you examine
the previous posts and try to pick up where I formed that hypothesis. It might
prove...enlightening.
jonathan, who is still amazed by Mr. Fay...
Major Matt Mason
(Timothy Fay) wrote:
>
> jlmi...@hamp.hampshire.edu wrote:
> >being obtuse? I mean, blatantly (and uncalled for) inflammatory remarks are
> >bad nettiquette to say the least, and quite malicious otherwise.
>
> The posts I've read so far about Mr. Hirtes could be considered libelous
> at worst and in questionable taste at best. Calling someone a "fanboy
> from Hell"--now _that's_ malicious and inflammatory, and a much greater
> breach of 'netiquette' than anything I said in the above paragraph.
Um, can I vote for both flamebait AND obtuseness? :)
=============================================================================
M. Mitchell Marmel | Co-Chaircritter, Alt.Tasteless
Drexel University | Awards Committee, 1993
Department of Materials Engineering | *I CAN BE BOUGHT!*
Fibrous Materials Research Laboratory | marm...@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu
=============================================================================
Richard Chandler
>Seeing some of the readers of this newsgroup refer to Mr. Hirtes as a
>"fanboy from Hell" calls to mind images of pots and kettles. I prefer
>to think of it as Karma. Whether its good or bad depends, I guess, on
>which end of the phone you are on. :)
Well, having been on the receiving end, I'd say it's a negative experience.
The same day he called up Tygger, essentially to try and steal away her trib
from Gallery (Which I find offensive, I don't like attempts to sabotage my
book), and where he insulted her (I understand the line was "With you around,
who needs to get Terrie Smith." and we KNOW the effect that has on her), Lia
called up and left a message on my machine warning me that after she blew up
at Hirtes, she suspected he would start some rumors. Immediately after that
message, there was one from Mike Hirtes, starting down his telephone tree.
Hirtes has called me many times, for hours at a stretch, spreading rumors and
whining about his reputation (And taking offense at any suggestions I make to
correct it). Yeah, I'd consider it fair to call him a fanboy-from-hell.
In article <CLop...@news.cis.umn.edu>, ava...@wings.micro.umn.edu (Timothy
Fay) writes:
> The posts I've read so far about Mr. Hirtes could be considered
> libelous at worst and in questionable taste at best. Calling someone
> a "fanboy from Hell"--now _that's_ malicious and inflammatory, and a
> much greater breach of 'netiquette' than anything I said in the above
> paragraph.
"malicious and inflammatory" perhaps, but accurate.
(Technically, I haven't, I've only said it would be fair to.:-)
--
What part of "...shall not be infringed." don't you understand?
"Ride a motorcycle. Save Gas, Oil, Rubber, Steel, Aluminum, Parking Spaces,
The Environment, and Money. Plus, you get to wear all the leather you want!"
Rich Chandler, DoD #296
Richard Chandler
> why, if you care to talk about it, would you possibly want to defend him?
It seems to me that Tim likes to strike some kind of balance, or provide a
contrast, or get us to question what we believe, or something like that.
Maybe he's trying to be some kind of Furry Devil's Advocate, but to me, it
always comes off as blindly asserting that Black is White whenever anyone
posts a word.
Classic examples:
I don't draw like Terrie. I've been trying hard not to.
You draw like Terrie.
Skunk is insulting, offensive, and not funny.
I thought it was hilarious.
Mike Hirtes is a jerk and a fanboy from Hell because he did this and this and
this.
Gee, that doesn't seem fair. Just because he acts like a jerk doesn't mean
he is jerk, and it's mean of you to say so.
There's an amazing variety of stuff in Furry fandom.
It's all crap.
It was mean of you to say that to Lia, because it's not true.
It wasn't and it is. And I only insulted her in the nicest possible way for
her own good.
There's more, but as should be obvious from my level of paraphrasing, I
haven't been paying quite close enough attention to reproduce everything.
But I think enough people have noticed this that they've pointed out that he
doesn't seem to have a single positive thing to say (Other than praising the
universally condemned Skunk). It's like he's playing that "Opposite" game
you play as a kid.
Timothy Fay
I've spoken with him a few times over the phone. My opinions about him
notwithstanding, it is still extremely rude and tactless to label him
"a drooling fanboy from Hell," especially in a public forum. I find it
particularly ironic that the person who started this thread often complains
about how rude and tactless these "fanboys" are to her (hence the comment
about good and bad Karma--think about it).
Timothy Fay
>...Tim...it's not libel if it's provable and Tygger
>and Jordon _have_ cited specific instances. You, however, are just inviting
>(no, asking for) flames. _That's_ bad nettiquette...in fact, I've known folx
>to have accounts pulled over things like that.
Excuse me, but how, exactly, do you "prove" that someone is a "drooling
fanboy from Hell?" I mean, are there criteria set down in some Drooling
Fanboy Manual, somewhere? Enquiring minds want to know...
And speaking of bizarre criteria: You must have an interesting sysadmin
if he or she would pull a post considered as "flame-bait" (another difficult-
to-define term) but leave ones that insult and defame someone specifically by
name. It must be in the water. Definitely. Definitely the water.
>Oh, calling Mr Hirtes (who I do not know) a "fanboy from hell" is indeed a
>subjective judgement...it might be malicious (_if_ Mr. Hirtes takes direct
>offense), but it's not inflammatory as he doesn't actually read this group.
Well, that's certainly a relief to know.
>...in fact,
>you give the impression of a person who very much wishes to be argued with,
>picked on...in fact, hated...
Then I'd say I've come to the right place, since there seems to be more
than enough hatred to go around.
Karwood
Anyhow, here's hopin' your new unlisted phone # won't be kept from locals
who do favors like babysit for you from time to time (okay, once) ;)
Hopin' your '94 is goin' well!
-Ray
MATT C HENRY
> Then I'd say I've come to the right place, since there seems to be more
> than enough hatred to go around.
.... And you wonder why?
R'ykandar Korra'ti
one thing:
If you think this only happens in Furry fandom, you haven't been
involved much in the _other_ fandoms...
I've seen it in comics fandom.
I've seen it in Trek fandom (from a distance. I bailed on Trek when
people started calling themselves "Trekkers." I was a Trekkie, dammit;
Trekkers are Trekkies with insecurity complexes.)
I've seen it in gaming. (Been on the receiving end of that one...)
I've seen it _book SF_ fandom, for crissakes...
I see it a little differently than Lia did, because I'm more known
as an editor. I've been flamed for offering requested commentary; I've
been flamed for ignoring flames; I've been flamed for responding to
flames; I've had my reputation threatened because I wouldn't print a
story. All from "general" SF fans.
I've been asked to pay for the "right" to do work on someone else's
'zine. That was a Trekkie. (Hey, Lia, at least they weren't trying to get
you to _pay_ to do all this...)
>Has anyone else out there had this problem, or am I just special?
Yes on the first; I'm not touchin' the second... :-)
>The thing I didn't care for was the tone of I "owed" him. --snort--
>Right. *I* owed HIM. For what?!
Isn't it obvious? "For the HONOUR of being PUBLISHED in MY FANZINE!"
:-)
I've been lucky with the phone; I don't deal well on the phone, so
most people know to write me. Letters are easier to ignore, or flame
mercilessly... :-)
- R'ykandar.
--
R'ykandar Korra'ti | LOW ORBIT #48: 80% layout complete
da...@microsoft.com | REFRACTIONS #2: Proofreading complete! Correcting text...
| "STUPID, STUPID RAT CREATURES!" - Fone Bone
Richard Chandler
> dealing with Michael Hirtes, and NEVER give him your phone #.
Hmmm, this message arrived a week late.
Anyway, I never gave him my number. In fact, before I mooved to Washington,
I hav enever had any dealing with him, but he was the first person to call me
once I had gotten my phone connected. I don't know how he did it, and he
won't tell me who gave him my number.
anta...@news.delphi.com
>Anyway, I never gave him my number. In fact, before I mooved to Washington,
>I hav enever had any dealing with him, but he was the first person to call me
>once I had gotten my phone connected. I don't know how he did it, and he
>won't tell me who gave him my number.
I've been having trouble with late-arriving posts, too. Most
discussions arrive at Delphi out of order - responses to Lia's
original message appeared four days before her message made it here.
In any case, when I moved from Patricia to West Ave, Mike Hirtes
was the first person to call me up, too - and I wasn't even listed
with the phone co.! At the time, I was living with Joe Rosales,
and he found me by calling up "Information" on Joe, the DAY our
phone was hooked up. (Joe was royally pissed - Hirtes had our
number before his parents did!).
Cheers,
- AP's Matt
D.A.C. Crowell
ANTA...@DELPHI.COM <anta...@news.delphi.com> wrote:
>mau...@claris.com (Richard Chandler) writes:
>
>>Anyway, I never gave him my number. In fact, before I mooved to Washington,
>>I hav enever had any dealing with him, but he was the first person to call me
>>once I had gotten my phone connected. I don't know how he did it, and he
>>won't tell me who gave him my number.
>
>was the first person to call me up, too - and I wasn't even listed
>with the phone co.! At the time, I was living with Joe Rosales,
>and he found me by calling up "Information" on Joe, the DAY our
>phone was hooked up. (Joe was royally pissed - Hirtes had our
>number before his parents did!).
Hey, guys...be glad that all he did was to _find_ you! Back a bit over a
year ago, Hirtes was pestering us (as he has done for a _long_ time), and
asked if he could charge "a short call to the guys in Texas" to our number.
Paul and I figured, "what the hell, just one call...", and told him it
was cool, as long as he kept things short and to just one call.
Well, a month and a half went by, and then we got this Phone Bill
From Hell...about $1400!!! We ran it all down, and all but about a dozen
and a half calls (ours, natch) had been placed from third-party numbers
in either Council Bluffs, IA or Omaha, NE. In short, Hirtes had "phreaked"
us, and was trying to palm off over $1300 in long-distance charges to
our phone. Well, it didn't work! We _immediately_ called Illinois Bell
and AT&T, had them fix the bill, and had an investigative team sicced on
Hirtes.
The fallout from this continues to this day; our primary phone
line has a "block" on third-party calls on it still, which we put there
the day the Bill From Hell arrived. And we're working on altering our
phone service, too, so that that number will eventually lead to an answering
machine and all of the _real_ calls will be on a second number...all
because Hirtes insists on calling Paul and I as much as is (in)humanly
possible. And the first person who gives "Eek the Cat" (Groat's name for
Hirtes...which fits!) that 2nd line number dies when either Paul or I
get our hands on 'em.
But the Big Question about Hirtes that I, and Paul, and Morrissey,
and Groat, and _anyone else_ who's had to deal with him is this: how
does he keep his phone on? He _has no_ job, he calls virtually the entire
continent every day...HOW? Or rather...who's paying for it...?
D.A.C. Crowell
Audio Design and Programming
KnowledgeMedia/The Aerodyne Works
Champaign, IL, USA.
(da...@tigerden.com)
NOEL TOMINACK, ACS 24-HOUR LAB
>In article <2llp0a$9...@news.delphi.com>,
>ANTA...@DELPHI.COM <anta...@news.delphi.com> wrote:
>>mau...@claris.com (Richard Chandler) writes:
>>
>>>but he was the first person to call me
>>>once I had gotten my phone connected. I don't know how he did it,
>>
>>was the first person to call me up, too - and I wasn't even listed
>>with the phone co.!
>
>was cool, as long as he kept things short and to just one call.
> Well, a month and a half went by, and then we got this Phone Bill
>From Hell...about $1400!!!
>In short, Hirtes had "phreaked"
>us, and was trying to palm off over $1300 in long-distance charges to
>our phone.
> But the Big Question about Hirtes that I, and Paul, and Morrissey,
>and Groat, and _anyone else_ who's had to deal with him is this: how
>does he keep his phone on? He _has no_ job, he calls virtually the entire
>continent every day...HOW? Or rather...who's paying for it...?
All this reminds me of an old Cheech and Chong bit where one of them is
pretending to be on the phone with a woman and they say:
"You got your number changed to an unlisted on and didn't give it to
me--its a good thing my mom works for the phone company..."
Hmmm, maybe that would explain why he charges so much for his fanzines
too.
Tygger
I"ve been watching and reading for the past bit and listening to my
"ears" out there and have come to a rather unnerving and frightening
conclusion:
Michael Hirtes is a stalker. One that's been allowed to operate for far
too long.
How can I say this? There's too much evidence that points to it. Hirtes
methodically and deliberately searched for Mauser's and Matt High's
numbers when they moved. Look at how he found Matt, through Joe
Rosales. I never gave him my number yet he managed to find it. Jazmyn
told me he demanded phone numbers from her. When I asked him how he got
my number he told me he had it for years. When I told him I've been at
that number for 3 years, he hemmed and hawed before saying he COLLECTS
numbers and addresses.
To me, that's frightening. One person actively collecting and searching
for numbers, many UNLISTED, just to have and use when he feels like it or
when he wants something.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Michael Hirtes must be
STOPPED and any others like him.
And truth be told, I don't give a flying FUCK if this posting is sent to
him. I KNOW for a fact he's been spreading lies about me. Fine. That's
slander. What I've posted here is the TRUTH and is based on FACTS.
Am I angry? Yes. Hirtes' actions have caused many artists to be
reluctant to submit to zines. ALL of furfandom suffers for it.
Well...I've said my two cents. All of you take care.
TTFN.
Tygger
--
******************************************************************************
Look! Tygger's Done Something NEW! Look For Them In Gallery 16!
"Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the
courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to burn the bodies of
those I had to KILL because they STRESSED ME OUT!!" -- Anonymous
Heheheheee...
Dave Bell
DC>and Groat, and _anyone else_ who's had to deal with him is this: how
DC>does he keep his phone on? He _has no_ job, he calls virtually the
DC>entire continent every day...HOW? Or rather...who's paying for it...?
One of these days somebody is going to come up with a provable case
(verbal permissions can be awkward in court, for instance).
Is this the same Mike Hirtes who's publishing some furry erotica? OK, I
expect I'll get the messages that started all this in the next mail :-)
From what I recall of the ad I saw, calling it "erotica" is a criminal
abuse of the English language, but that's a matter of taste.
Dave
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Bruce Grant
(D.A.C. Crowell) said:
DC> But the Big Question about Hirtes that I, and Paul, and
DC> Morrissey, and Groat, and _anyone else_ who's had to deal with him
DC> is this: how does he keep his phone on? He _has no_ job, he calls
DC> virtually the entire continent every day...HOW? Or rather... who's
DC> paying for it...?
Hmmm... this thread reminds me of something. A year or so back, when I
was just getting into this furry stuff, I sent off for a couple of his
zines. A couple of months after my first letter, I got a phone call
one day from... you guessed it.
Give him his due, he'd worked out the time zone difference so that I
wasn't asleep/at the office/having dinner or anything like that.
So, even if you live on another continent, you're not safe. :-/
Just don't ask me what he actually said: it's been a long time, and
AFAIR I wasn't all that sure even just after I'd put the phone down.
Bruce.
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Steve Arlow
Dave Bell <dave...@evaware.org> wrote:
>
>Is this the same Mike Hirtes who's publishing some furry erotica? OK, I
>expect I'll get the messages that started all this in the next mail :-)
>
>From what I recall of the ad I saw, calling it "erotica" is a criminal
>abuse of the English language, but that's a matter of taste.
Well, about a year ago, I ordered "Midtnight Sands" #1. It was
advertised with a very nice drawing by Maggie DeAlarcon, and I
was rather disappointed to find that that drawing did not appear
in the 'zine, nor any other piece of her art. Not surprising,
though...
--
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PIZZA may be one thing, BUT IMAGINARY | 39336 Polo Club Dr. #103
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