The true status of F-X-C (redux).
Webm...@furnation.com
that should give a small grin to anyone who is against all this copyright
theft stuff that these fools are doing. Here is a little tidbit from the
Associated Press release. At the end of this news release (used by
permission from the Associated Press) I will give you more information on
why this is so funny...
-----
Computer gear seized in file sharing probe
FBI takes first criminal copyright action against a peer-to-peer network
Associated Press
WASHINGTON - The FBI seized computers, software and equipment in Texas and
two other states Wednesday as part of an investigation into illegal sharing
of copyrighted movies, music and games over an Internet "peer-to-peer"
network.
"The message is simply this: P2P, or peer-to-peer, does not stand for
'permission to pilfer,'"
Mr. Ashcroft told reporters at a Justice Department news conference.
Unlike file-sharing networks popular with tens of millions of Internet users
worldwide, the smaller network targeted by the Justice Department was
managed by centralized "hub" computers that restricted participation.
Technical experts said it operated similarly to the former Napster
service, which shut down in July 2000.
The search was conducted at the office of The Planet Internet Services
Inc., a Dallas-based Internet service provider. Authorities said Planet is
not a target of the probe.
"Unfortunately, companies like ours get caught up in this position from time
to time," he said. "It would be physically impossible for us to know every
piece of information on every server."
Industry groups say Internet piracy of intellectual property is a huge and
growing problem. Mr. Ashcroft estimated $19 billion is the total cost to
creative artists, management firms, distribution companies, theaters and all
the employees connected with them.
Charges and arrests are likely to follow after the evidence is examined,
investigators said. The maximum penalty for criminal copyright
infringement is a fine of $250,000 and five years in prison.
Staff writer Matt Stiles contributed to this report.
-----
What is so funny about this is that F-X-C was being hosted at The Planet
Internet Services, right on one of the servers that was confiscated! Yes my
friends, Alaska and Ember's little bit torrent machine is now safely in the
hands of the FBI! Including log files, the original site, and everything on
the forums!
There are now 2 lawsuits that have been files against Alaska and Ember for
copyright and trademark infrigement. I am not part of the lawsuits, but I
am being kept informed of their progress (I will let those involved give
more details if they wish).
I am watching to see when, and if, F-X-C comes back online. I would like
to ask everyone who is sending reports to the service providers to hold off
a bit if they come back online, as the folks who initiated the lawsuits
would like to hook up to their bit torrent systems again and get the actual
IPs a second time of the machines hosting the copyrighted works, just to
verify the information they already have. Once the IPs have been verified,
I am sure that subpoenas to the hosting ISPs of their systems will soon
follow.
Have a happy day!
Sincerely,
Webm...@FurNation.com
http://www.FurNation.com
"Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he
will be warm for the rest of his life." - Unknown
##### COPYRIGHT AND USE NOTICE #####
All original material (text, code, binaries, and/or attachments) contained
in this document are Copyright © 2004 FurNation Multimedia, All Rights
Reserved. This material may not be displayed, copied, altered, archived,
distributed, transferred, or reproduced in any form, in part or in whole, in
public or in private, without written consent. This material is intended
for the original recipient and purpose only. Receipt and/or possession of
this material does not imply or infer any additional rights of use.
Tamar
--
Shawntae Howard
www.extinctioners.com
<Webm...@FurNation.com> wrote in message
news:cgsmn8$lbp$1...@velox.critter.net...
BR
> Darn, you beat me to it.
Discussed over at "/." as well. The usuall arguments abound i.e. "Propping
up failed business model", etc.
--
-- James Fenimore Cooper
The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes,
knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.
PlanetFur
> Discussed over at "/." as well. The usuall arguments abound i.e. "Propping
> up failed business model", etc.
You forgot about the hypocricy of "Copyright should be abolished", but
anyone who releases a new version of GPL software that doesn't adhere to
the GPL, here come the pitchforks.
Copyright's only good if it gives them something positive, but bad if
they can't do with it as they please.
Have You Hugged Your Vargr Today?
wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
>Well, little does Alaska and Ember know, but something happened last week
>that should give a small grin to anyone who is against all this copyright
>theft stuff that these fools are doing. Here is a little tidbit from the
>Associated Press release. At the end of this news release (used by
>permission from the Associated Press) I will give you more information on
>why this is so funny...
WE MUST DESTROY FILE SHAREING!!!
It is a threat to currenty entrenched buisness interests!!!!
however the free market will have its way.
File shareing can't be stopped anymore than you could stop smuggleing
in the 18th centuries.
in time those companies who can adapt and change to it, will. and
those who cannot will fall by the wayside, but not before trying to
squash it in a futile effort.
--
Khofaeghorz gvegh gvegh gnaedh faeng vargr rrirrg!
--
"behind every great fortune there is a crime"
BR
wrote:
"WE MUST DESTROY FILE SHAREING!!!"
Guns don't kill people. Crimminals do.
"It is a threat to currenty entrenched buisness interests!!!!"
Like the small guys. Or did you just forget whom Sibe and friends are
targetting?
> however the free market will have its way.
It'll start with Dave. Pucker up!
"File shareing can't be stopped anymore than you could stop smuggleing in
the 18th centuries."
Yes, when people want to be bad. It's a hard thing to stop. Can't imagine
why that would be a point of pride though.
"in time those companies who can adapt and change to it, will. and those
who cannot will fall by the wayside, but not before trying to squash it in
a futile effort."
We'll make an offer yous can't refuse.
Have You Hugged Your Vargr Today?
Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
>On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:02:28 +0000, Have You Hugged Your Vargr Today?
>wrote:
>
>"WE MUST DESTROY FILE SHAREING!!!"
>
>Guns don't kill people. Crimminals do.
Criminals use guns to kill people. The guns propel bits of metal at
several hundered kmph into peoples body. HTH.
>"It is a threat to currenty entrenched buisness interests!!!!"
>
>Like the small guys.
I can try before I buy, and also buy stuff by small obscure labels who
wouldn't otherwise get playtime or featrured on radio or afford to
take out adverts or break the stranglehoild of the large companies.
>Or did you just forget whom Sibe and friends are
>targetting?
Some furry artists who get more sales as a result of good free
publicity.
>> however the free market will have its way.
>
>It'll start with Dave. Pucker up!
>
>"File shareing can't be stopped anymore than you could stop smuggleing in
>the 18th centuries."
>
>Yes, when people want to be bad. It's a hard thing to stop. Can't imagine
>why that would be a point of pride though.
Why is it bad to try and escape the chokehold of large record
companies who treat artists like chattel, underpay them and steal
their surplus labour value?
Anything which gives the artists the power to get their work directly
to the consumer, bypassing the profit obsessed record companies is
good.
You can already see some profit models comeing out of fileshareing,
like Apple itunes et al.
And I myself am a case in point. Before I started downloading Mp3s I
had less than 5 C.Ds, now I have exactly 101.
>"in time those companies who can adapt and change to it, will. and those
>who cannot will fall by the wayside, but not before trying to squash it in
>a futile effort."
>
>We'll make an offer yous can't refuse.
Prove that fileshareing has links with organised crime please or else
I will have to conclude that you have been brainwashed by the record
companies.
Wanderer
news:4134396e...@news.individual.net...
> BR <brodr...@comcast.net> shall never vanquished be until great
> Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
>
> >On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:02:28 +0000, Have You Hugged Your Vargr Today?
> >wrote:
> >
> >"WE MUST DESTROY FILE SHAREING!!!"
> >
> >Guns don't kill people. Crimminals do.
>
> Criminals use guns to kill people. The guns propel bits of metal at
> several hundered kmph into peoples body. HTH.
Criminals have also been known to use knives, cars, fireplace pokers, lead
pipes, PVC pipes, bricks, and molten lead to kill people. Which of these
would you have restricted for that reason?
>
> >"It is a threat to currenty entrenched buisness interests!!!!"
> >
> >Like the small guys.
>
> I can try before I buy, and also buy stuff by small obscure labels who
> wouldn't otherwise get playtime or featrured on radio or afford to
> take out adverts or break the stranglehoild of the large companies.
That's nice for you. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who
download copyrighted material illegally never buy anything as a result:
They have what they wanted, and are either unable or unwilling to buy
something.
>
> >Or did you just forget whom Sibe and friends are
> >targetting?
>
> Some furry artists who get more sales as a result of good free
> publicity.
Small press. "Furnation Magazine" barely makes costs as it is. Sibe
doesn't give any information on his site to point you to the magazine's true
publisher. Put the two together, and you have a dwindling likelihood of
future Furnations.
<snip>
> >Yes, when people want to be bad. It's a hard thing to stop. Can't imagine
> >why that would be a point of pride though.
>
> Why is it bad to try and escape the chokehold of large record
> companies who treat artists like chattel, underpay them and steal
> their surplus labour value?
He was responding to your comparing file sharing to smuggling, an activity
which is illegal at Federal and State levels. In any event, by downloading
a legal copy that the artist authorizes, you're not hurting anyone but the
record company. By downloading a copy that's illegal, you're hurting nobody
but the artist; the record company will still get their pound of flesh, so
only the artist's cut gets whittled.
>
> Anything which gives the artists the power to get their work directly
> to the consumer, bypassing the profit obsessed record companies is
> good.
And anything which takes control of the work away from the artist without
giving him anything in return is Bad. This is why illegal file sharing is
Bad.
>
> You can already see some profit models comeing out of fileshareing,
> like Apple itunes et al.
>
> And I myself am a case in point. Before I started downloading Mp3s I
> had less than 5 C.Ds, now I have exactly 101.
Again, good for you. You're a rare exception. Hopefully the RIAA won't
have you arrested the way they did the other people who didn't abuse the
system.
>
> >"in time those companies who can adapt and change to it, will. and those
> >who cannot will fall by the wayside, but not before trying to squash it
in
> >a futile effort."
> >
> >We'll make an offer yous can't refuse.
>
> Prove that fileshareing has links with organised crime please or else
> I will have to conclude that you have been brainwashed by the record
> companies.
>
You have the sense of humor of an unfired brick, I see. He was attempting a
parody of your "change or die" quote up there.
Yours quickly,
The wolfish,
Wanderer
wand...@ticnet.com
"Where am I going? I don't quite know.
What does it matter *where* people go?
Down to the woods where the bluebells grow!
Anywhere! Anywhere! *I* don't know!"
-- a. a. milne
iBuck
>have you arrested the way they did the other people who didn't abuse the
>system.
I't's only good for him if his downloading was from authorized sources, if it
wasn't, then he's still got a black mark in my book, personally I tend to
regard CD purchases and the like as independant acts from the downloads, why?
simply because one can downlload without buying and one can buy without
downloading... Try before you buy is a privledge extended by the seller, not
an entitlement.
First off.. the vast majority of the stuff on p2p -isn't- the rare an hard to
find stuff, it's the same commecial shlock that's on the major radio
stations... For that stuff, there's -no- excuse for downloading it, except
for the perenniall "I can't aford it" -too bad, turn on the radio, get a better
job, or wait till you can afford it...
Secondly, for the "exposure" angle, as much as Dave cites the RIAA's
domination of distro channels in the stores and over the radio, there are still
plenty of other venues that small artists to get exposure without illegal file
sharing. NPR reveiws a fair amount of stuff, I found Natacha Atlas that way,
Amazon offers downloads of smaller artists, that hooked me on Archetribe. I've
snagged more than a few anime soundtracks after hearing them over net radio...
In short if exposure gets sales for the artists, there is no -need- for that
exposure to be by unauthorized distros..
I -never- used napster or grokster or bit torrent or the like, but I have
aproximately 170 CD's in my collection, all of which I found I liked the music
on through perfectly legal methods, even some oddball techno-arabic stuff,
that's probably harder to get than Dave's euro-metal, Since iTunes came out
(btw, iTunes is -not- p2p it's single source electronic distrubtion) I've
gotten almost a thousand diffrent songs off of it, and a half dozen audio
books. If I can do that, why can't others?
"You can have it Quickly,Correct, Complex - Pick 2"
BR
wrote:
>>"It is a threat to currenty entrenched buisness interests!!!!"
>>
>>Like the small guys.
>
> I can try before I buy, and also buy stuff by small obscure labels who
> wouldn't otherwise get playtime or featrured on radio or afford to take
> out adverts or break the stranglehoild of the large companies.
Well as others have pointed out. This can be done legally. So what's
everyone's excuse again.
>>Or did you just forget whom Sibe and friends are targetting?
>
> Some furry artists who get more sales as a result of good free
> publicity.
>
>
That's not your decision to make. Basically you're saying "I know better
than you what's good for you".
>>> however the free market will have its way.
>>
>>It'll start with Dave. Pucker up!
>>
>>"File shareing can't be stopped anymore than you could stop smuggleing
>>in the 18th centuries."
>>
>>Yes, when people want to be bad. It's a hard thing to stop. Can't
>>imagine why that would be a point of pride though.
>
> Why is it bad to try and escape the chokehold of large record companies
> who treat artists like chattel, underpay them and steal their surplus
> labour value?
>
>
You know I hear this every single time. Dave, your old enough to know what
a contract is. All those artists have willfully signed contracts. Maybe
the terms are good, maybe bad. However most of us aren't privy to their
terms. But in any case they were entered into legally, and willfully.
If you want to be the champion your implying? I suggest you start your own
label. Then all those artists can sign with you and not be treated "like
chattel", be underpayed, and use their labour fairly. I'm certain "market
forces" will support you.
> Anything which gives the artists the power to get their work directly to
> the consumer, bypassing the profit obsessed record companies is good.
>
>
The ends justify the means? Anyway I think it smacks of arrogance for a
uninvited third party to try to dictate to the artist at least what the
terms of their contract should be. Anyway you want to be a champion of
artist? Set up an education program, funded out of your own pocket.
Instruction artists on how to get a good deal. Show them all these
"anything"'s that presumably they aren't aware of to get their works to
consumers.
>>"in time those companies who can adapt and change to it, will. and those
>>who cannot will fall by the wayside, but not before trying to squash it
>>in a futile effort."
>>
>>We'll make an offer yous can't refuse.
>
> Prove that fileshareing has links with organised crime please or else I
> will have to conclude that you have been brainwashed by the record
> companies.
Or we can conclude that those vitamin pills aren't working in your case.
Wanderer
Speaking as someone who occasionally downloads, I'm really not able to
follow through on any of your suggestions right now. The radio stations in
my area don't play what I want to hear more than once in a blue moon, I have
no job at all since the racing season ended, and a need to conserve money
drastically just to keep the lights on for two more months. (If I don't
have a job by then, and assuming Mother's life insurance and pension still
haven't shown up, I won't be able to pay for lights, heat, or gas.)
I don't approve of criminal downloads and copyright violations... but
they're the only way I can listen to music I like, anymore.
Yours with a taste for the '80's,
PlanetFur
> I don't approve of criminal downloads and copyright violations... but
> they're the only way I can listen to music I like, anymore.
>
> Yours with a taste for the '80's,
>
> The wolfish,
>
> Wanderer
> wand...@ticnet.com
I'm sorry, but no one's guaranteed free entertainment.
Pick up an instrument and learn to play, find bands who give away their
music you'd like, get XM radio next time you have some funds, or . . .
GO TO THE LIBRARY. Tons of CDs there, you can request those you'd like
if they don't have it from other libraries, or even read a frigging book.
Why the hell is it justifiable that if you can't afford someone else's
hard work, it's perfectly okay just to take it?
BR
There's also used CD's The older the music, generally the cheaper. There's
a used book and music shop nearby that has a sale on used CD's $2.00 They
have used CD's comming out the wazoo.
Wanderer
news:pan.2004.08.31....@comcast.net...
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:29:56 -0400, PlanetFur wrote:
>
> > Wanderer wrote:
> >
> >> I don't approve of criminal downloads and copyright violations... but
> >> they're the only way I can listen to music I like, anymore.
> >>
> >> Yours with a taste for the '80's,
> >>
Didn't say they were.
> >
> > Pick up an instrument and learn to play, find bands who give away their
> > music you'd like, get XM radio next time you have some funds, or . . .
I can play the drums, the trumpet and (barely) the flute. Yeah, we're
rockin' now...
I'm in Texas, "the southern Seattle". Fine if you like alternative, which I
don't. And since '80's music is "out" right now, no band in their right
minds is selling it, or even giving it away. Vintage is about it.
XM? Satellite radio? You *do* know that's a monthly fee, right? Not that
it matters right now, with nothing but silence from the jobhunt...
> >
> > GO TO THE LIBRARY. Tons of CDs there, you can request those you'd like
> > if they don't have it from other libraries, or even read a frigging
> > book.
I read all the time; sometimes I like to listen to music, for a change of
pace. Besides, I can't afford new books, and I've read everything in all
four bookcases in the house. (Five if you count the garage, but those are
all old romance novels.) I've read every book I can stand from the library,
and they only have donated CD's... classical, ethnic, and book-on-CD are the
only choices.
> >
> > Why the hell is it justifiable that if you can't afford someone else's
> > hard work, it's perfectly okay just to take it?
Didn't say it was. If I could buy something, I'd buy the music. Right now,
I'm on food stamps, and will be amazingly lucky if I can keep my Internet
next year. That's assuming I get a job, of course... right now, I have
enough savings for maybe two more months of electricity and other utilities.
>
> There's also used CD's The older the music, generally the cheaper. There's
> a used book and music shop nearby that has a sale on used CD's $2.00 They
> have used CD's comming out the wazoo.
>
That's a great idea, if I can get a job. Right now, the book I buy today
could mean the lights going out next month.
Yours in a depression thanks to the recession,
iBuck
But saying illegal dl's are acceptable if you can't afford it, it works out to
the same thing.. (assuming of course you have a computer)
Frankly the same options that people had to listen to their favorites when they
were cash deprived -before- filesharing are still out there, dig out your LP's
or cassetes that you bought in the 80's.. I still do.. find an oldies station
near you..
>Yours in a depression thanks to the recession,
Or the Stress from your mother's illness, and now your fathers, and the raised
blood presure from constant online arguments, you're not the only one in this
debate who's in a stressfull situation, and a money crunch... But I'm still
not running to napster..
Brock Ulfsen
> I read all the time; sometimes I like to listen to music, for a change of
> pace. Besides, I can't afford new books, and I've read everything in all
> four bookcases in the house. (Five if you count the garage, but those are
> all old romance novels.)
So sell the romance novels, and the bookcase they are in, buy a couple
of second hand 10 disk sets of "Best of the 80s" music. Buy a couple of
Winger albums secondhand too... <grin> Bet you have enough change to buy
a burger while you are at it, or enough rice to eat for a week.
...Brock.
Tamar
but, well, you know..maybe, buying the music you like?
I'm such a nerd.
--
Shawntae Howard
www.extinctioners.com
"Wanderer" <wand...@ticnet.com> wrote in message
news:10j9cln...@corp.supernews.com...
Ostrich
>
> Guns don't kill people. Crimminals do.
>
Personally, I'd change the phrase to "Guns don't kill people. Gun
owners do." Not all gun-related killings are criminal acts, you know.
--
-Ostrich! <")
The KKK took my Vargr Away
Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
>"Have You Hugged Your Vargr Today?" <dsa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:4134396e...@news.individual.net...
>> BR <brodr...@comcast.net> shall never vanquished be until great
>> Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
>>
>> >On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:02:28 +0000, Have You Hugged Your Vargr Today?
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >"WE MUST DESTROY FILE SHAREING!!!"
>> >
>> >Guns don't kill people. Crimminals do.
>>
>> Criminals use guns to kill people. The guns propel bits of metal at
>> several hundered kmph into peoples body. HTH.
>
>Criminals have also been known to use knives, cars, fireplace pokers, lead
>pipes, PVC pipes, bricks, and molten lead to kill people. Which of these
>would you have restricted for that reason?
None of those are designed to kill people though. You're attacking a
straw man. A car is designed to take people from place to place.
A gun is um... Designed to kill people by propelling little bits of
metal at hundereds of KmpH.
>> >"It is a threat to currenty entrenched buisness interests!!!!"
>> >
>> >Like the small guys.
>>
>> I can try before I buy, and also buy stuff by small obscure labels who
>> wouldn't otherwise get playtime or featrured on radio or afford to
>> take out adverts or break the stranglehoild of the large companies.
>
>That's nice for you. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who
>download copyrighted material illegally never buy anything as a result:
>They have what they wanted, and are either unable or unwilling to buy
>something.
Post proof or retract.
Also, maybe that says something about the current state of the music
buisness eh?
Profit obsessed record companies pushing bland rubbish on people
because they calculate that is what will make the most money.
It's all about the benjamins. :o(
>> >Or did you just forget whom Sibe and friends are
>> >targetting?
>>
>> Some furry artists who get more sales as a result of good free
>> publicity.
>
>Small press. "Furnation Magazine" barely makes costs as it is. Sibe
>doesn't give any information on his site to point you to the magazine's true
>publisher. Put the two together, and you have a dwindling likelihood of
>future Furnations.
There will always be more pr0n.
Those who will buy it, will buy it. Those who don't wont.
You yourself said that.
>> >Yes, when people want to be bad. It's a hard thing to stop. Can't imagine
>> >why that would be a point of pride though.
>>
>> Why is it bad to try and escape the chokehold of large record
>> companies who treat artists like chattel, underpay them and steal
>> their surplus labour value?
>
>He was responding to your comparing file sharing to smuggling, an activity
>which is illegal at Federal and State levels. In any event, by downloading
>a legal copy that the artist authorizes, you're not hurting anyone but the
>record company. By downloading a copy that's illegal, you're hurting nobody
>but the artist; the record company will still get their pound of flesh, so
>only the artist's cut gets whittled.
You're still at a straw man, Maybe, just maybe it would be better if
record companies didn't get a pound of flesh eh?
>> Anything which gives the artists the power to get their work directly
>> to the consumer, bypassing the profit obsessed record companies is
>> good.
>
>And anything which takes control of the work away from the artist without
>giving him anything in return is Bad. This is why illegal file sharing is
>Bad.
Ah, just like record companies. :o)
>> You can already see some profit models comeing out of fileshareing,
>> like Apple itunes et al.
>>
>> And I myself am a case in point. Before I started downloading Mp3s I
>> had less than 5 C.Ds, now I have exactly 101.
>
>Again, good for you. You're a rare exception. Hopefully the RIAA won't
>have you arrested the way they did the other people who didn't abuse the
>system.
OH NO! I AM SO SCARED. I will play the worlds tiniest violin.
>> >"in time those companies who can adapt and change to it, will. and those
>> >who cannot will fall by the wayside, but not before trying to squash it
>in
>> >a futile effort."
>> >
>> >We'll make an offer yous can't refuse.
>>
>> Prove that fileshareing has links with organised crime please or else
>> I will have to conclude that you have been brainwashed by the record
>> companies.
>>
>
>You have the sense of humor of an unfired brick, I see. He was attempting a
>parody of your "change or die" quote up there.
If you support the free market and capitlism, you should be agreeing
with what I said about file sharing, if not, you are a pork barrel
captalist. :o(
The KKK took my Vargr Away
Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
>I't's only good for him if his downloading was from authorized sources, if it
>wasn't, then he's still got a black mark in my book,
I don't go around holding "black marks" against people just because
they hate file shareing and for the vice versa, neither should you.
To do as such is pompous. :o(
The KKK took my Vargr Away
Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
>> I can try before I buy, and also buy stuff by small obscure labels who
>> wouldn't otherwise get playtime or featrured on radio or afford to take
>> out adverts or break the stranglehoild of the large companies.
>
>Well as others have pointed out. This can be done legally. So what's
>everyone's excuse again.
The only way I can sample heavy metal Cd's is to go up to the nearest
big city (about an hour by train) for a shop what stocks heavy metal
C.D's, and even then, they tend not to have a good range.
at least 50 odd of my C.D's, I have never seen in a shop. One I only
got hold of abroad due to a stroke of luck. But then, If I had not
sampled it firstly due to Mp3's, I would have never known how good it
was and they would have lost a sale. :o( :o(
>>>Or did you just forget whom Sibe and friends are targetting?
>>
>> Some furry artists who get more sales as a result of good free
>> publicity.
>>
>>
>That's not your decision to make. Basically you're saying "I know better
>than you what's good for you".
And thus, it must not be your decesion to make, vis a ve file
shareing. Basically you're saying "I know better than you what's good
for you".
>>>> however the free market will have its way.
>>>
>>>It'll start with Dave. Pucker up!
>>>
>>>"File shareing can't be stopped anymore than you could stop smuggleing
>>>in the 18th centuries."
>>>
>>>Yes, when people want to be bad. It's a hard thing to stop. Can't
>>>imagine why that would be a point of pride though.
>>
>> Why is it bad to try and escape the chokehold of large record companies
>> who treat artists like chattel, underpay them and steal their surplus
>> labour value?
>>
>>
>You know I hear this every single time. Dave, your old enough to know what
>a contract is. All those artists have willfully signed contracts. Maybe
>the terms are good, maybe bad. However most of us aren't privy to their
>terms. But in any case they were entered into legally, and willfully.
Slavery was perfectly legal at the time of the roman empire.
People could sell themselves into slavery to cover debts, they entered
into these contracts legally and willfully.
Do you thus condone slavery?
And who art thou to say that wage slavery is any better or somehow
more ethical that physical slavery?
>If you want to be the champion your implying? I suggest you start your own
>label. Then all those artists can sign with you and not be treated "like
>chattel", be underpayed, and use their labour fairly. I'm certain "market
>forces" will support you.
I don't need to be a clothier to notice that the emperor has no
clothes. :o)
>The ends justify the means?
Where exactly did I saw those?
>Anyway I think it smacks of arrogance for a
>uninvited third party to try to dictate to the artist at least what the
>terms of their contract should be. Anyway you want to be a champion of
What, like the record companies money obsessved exectuives who dictate
policty fofrm on high?
>artist? Set up an education program, funded out of your own pocket.
>Instruction artists on how to get a good deal. Show them all these
>"anything"'s that presumably they aren't aware of to get their works to
>consumers.
I don't need to be a clothier to notice that the emperor has no
clothes.
>>>"in time those companies who can adapt and change to it, will. and those
>>>who cannot will fall by the wayside, but not before trying to squash it
>>>in a futile effort."
>>>
>>>We'll make an offer yous can't refuse.
>>
>> Prove that fileshareing has links with organised crime please or else I
>> will have to conclude that you have been brainwashed by the record
>> companies.
>
>Or we can conclude that those vitamin pills aren't working in your case.
You've copped out. :o(
Another nail in the coffin of the EVIL
Wanderer
news:20040831174841...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> >Didn't say they were.
>
> But saying illegal dl's are acceptable if you can't afford it, it works
out to
> the same thing.. (assuming of course you have a computer)
I didn't say they were acceptable. I said they're the only option I've got
right now. See, I know I'm doing something wrong, and I do feel bad about
it; but since I literally have no other options available to me right now, I
swallow the bile and listen to the music the only way I know how.
>
> Frankly the same options that people had to listen to their favorites when
they
> were cash deprived -before- filesharing are still out there, dig out your
LP's
> or cassetes that you bought in the 80's.. I still do.. find an oldies
station
> near you..
I was born in 1970. In the '80's, I didn't even have enough milk money to
buy a cassette, and I couldn't go to the mall anyway. The family budget was
tied up in private school until 1984, when I moved to public school... and
got no more money than before. (Mother wasn't a financial wizard.) My
whole savings went to college in 1989, and helped me get the Associate
degree that does absolutely nothing for me to this day. (The one cassette I
*did* have... the soundtrack to "Footloose"... got eaten by the player in my
father's old Buick on my way to high school. My father replaced it with a
CD.)
There *are* oldies stations out here, yes. They come out of the '60's for
one hour a day.:/
>
> >Yours in a depression thanks to the recession,
>
> Or the Stress from your mother's illness, and now your fathers, and the
raised
> blood presure from constant online arguments, you're not the only one in
this
> debate who's in a stressfull situation, and a money crunch... But I'm
still
> not running to napster..
>
And I applaud you, but my depression isn't the reason I'm downloading... and
not from Napster, they're a pay service now. I'm downloading because it's
the only way to hear the songs I like on my budget. (Budget for personal
enjoyment: $0.00)
As a side note, the online arguments are quite relaxing, really. That's why
I keep flaming Mousie. It helps me calm down when I can take my aggressions
out on a deserving target.:>
Yours briefly,
The still-tightening-his-belt,
Wanderer
news:4135...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> So sell the romance novels, and the bookcase they are in, buy a couple
> of second hand 10 disk sets of "Best of the 80s" music. Buy a couple of
> Winger albums secondhand too... <grin> Bet you have enough change to buy
> a burger while you are at it, or enough rice to eat for a week.
>
<wry grin, hold the mayo> You're not in Texas, I see. We have hot, wet
seasons a lot. The books in the garage are in an unsellable condition.
Even Half-Price won't touch them, though that's because the market's been
flooded for years on end by people selling off their old Harlequins.
If I took in every last one, I'd get about $5.00.:/
The bookcase is likewise a lost cause, being warped beyond repair. Mind
you, if I ever need to steam some boat lumber, all I need is the garage...
Yours missing his "Hobbit" hardback,
The mildew-remembering,
Wanderer
news:ch3cu0$2e56$1...@velox.critter.net...
> You could try, well, maybe I know, its a crazy idea in todays world and
all,
> but, well, you know..maybe, buying the music you like?
>
> I'm such a nerd.
>
Not a nerd... never that! But you seem to have missed the part where I'm
hoping to get a job before they turn off the light and heat. Personal
expenditures (outside of food and drink) are currently under moratorium.
Yours awaiting the next benison from the food stamps people,
The unemployed,
(And, I sometimes think, unemployable)
Wanderer
news:41358ac1...@news.individual.net...
> "Wanderer" <wand...@ticnet.com> shall never vanquished be until great
> Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
lead
> >pipes, PVC pipes, bricks, and molten lead to kill people. Which of these
> >would you have restricted for that reason?
>
> None of those are designed to kill people though. You're attacking a
> straw man. A car is designed to take people from place to place.
Nope. A car is designed to move from place to place. A human is neccessary
for guidance control. That's why a word for car is "automobile": "Auto"
(self) + "mobile" (moving). A fireplace poker is designed to poke the logs
in the fireplace. Knives are designed to cut. Bricks are designed to stand
up under pressure. Pipes are designed to remain rigid under load.
>
> A gun is um... Designed to kill people by propelling little bits of
> metal at hundereds of KmpH.
Nope. A gun is designed to shoot little bits of metal at high velocity. A
gun fulfills its design purpose whether you shoot at a tank, a trooper, or a
target.
> >That's nice for you. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who
> >download copyrighted material illegally never buy anything as a result:
> >They have what they wanted, and are either unable or unwilling to buy
> >something.
>
> Post proof or retract.
You mean besides having half the newsgroup blasting me for downloading music
I can't afford to buy?:>
<snip... it's been about money since bards made appearances *at* court
instead of *in* court>
> >Small press. "Furnation Magazine" barely makes costs as it is. Sibe
> >doesn't give any information on his site to point you to the magazine's
true
> >publisher. Put the two together, and you have a dwindling likelihood of
> >future Furnations.
>
> There will always be more pr0n.
> Those who will buy it, will buy it. Those who don't wont.
> You yourself said that.
Since you obviously haven't read FurNation (I live near Nexxus, so I get to
see it sometimes), allow me to inform you: There's more there than "pr0n".
While the vast majority of the subject matter *is* adult, the artwork is of
high quality and the writing is solid. How much "pr0n" can you say that
about these days?
> >He was responding to your comparing file sharing to smuggling, an
activity
> >which is illegal at Federal and State levels. In any event, by
downloading
> >a legal copy that the artist authorizes, you're not hurting anyone but
the
> >record company. By downloading a copy that's illegal, you're hurting
nobody
> >but the artist; the record company will still get their pound of flesh,
so
> >only the artist's cut gets whittled.
>
> You're still at a straw man, Maybe, just maybe it would be better if
> record companies didn't get a pound of flesh eh?
Considering that's how they live, that could be disappointing. The record
companies record, copy, and distribute the work, as well as advertising it.
In a total breakdown of costs by independent auditors, the recording
industry is making maybe $0.50 a record at most.
> >And anything which takes control of the work away from the artist without
> >giving him anything in return is Bad. This is why illegal file sharing
is
> >Bad.
>
> Ah, just like record companies. :o)
Nope. Under law, the record companies have to give the artist *something*
in return for his work. The "something" can be whatever the artist accepts
as appropriate payment and agrees to under contract. The record companies
are under no obligation to tell the artists what they're willing to pay...
this is why artists have managers and agents, after all... and the artist is
not required to sign a contract they don't like. It would be entirely legal
to sell a song for a handful of jelly beans, but only if the artist agreed
to it.
> >Again, good for you. You're a rare exception. Hopefully the RIAA won't
> >have you arrested the way they did the other people who didn't abuse the
> >system.
>
> OH NO! I AM SO SCARED. I will play the worlds tiniest violin.
I said "didn't" abuse the system. If they connect your IP to a download,
they may prosecute you anyway. If you can pay court costs, of course,
they'll lose... IPs don't point to a specific household, after all. But
they *are* this paranoid.
> >You have the sense of humor of an unfired brick, I see. He was
attempting a
> >parody of your "change or die" quote up there.
>
> If you support the free market and capitlism, you should be agreeing
> with what I said about file sharing, if not, you are a pork barrel
> captalist. :o(
>
<FWEET!> That remark was offsides for presenting a false "either-or".
Because there's more than one type of capitalist, and because it is possible
to support free trade without supporting illegal file sharing, your
statement is incorrect.
Yours logically,
Wanderer
> Slavery was perfectly legal at the time of the roman empire.
> People could sell themselves into slavery to cover debts, they entered
> into these contracts legally and willfully.
>
> Do you thus condone slavery?
<FWEET!> Illegal comparison, using modern morals to condemn a past practice
and attempt to extend that condemnation to the subject argued against.
While your target may find "debtor slavery" to be acceptable, by your
phrasing you extend that to include "racial slavery" and "gender slavery".
Tarring two things with the same brush still doesn't make them the same.
Additional call: The information is incomplete. Under the same system,
your creditors could sell you into slavery without your permission, even if
they sold you to a "stable" for the Colosseum.
>
> And who art thou to say that wage slavery is any better or somehow
> more ethical that physical slavery?
<raised eyebrow> Biblical, art thou not? In the Roman times long gone, to
which thou did'st have recourse in thine argument, the slavery of wages and
the slavery of the body were most assuredly conjoined. No Roman citizen
might enter into slavery; yet not all who lived in Rome might be consdiered
as citizens. Lack'd they the land, the money, the lineage of citizenship,
t'would mark them among the second class of citizenry: Neither vote nor
power had they.
>
> I don't need to be a clothier to notice that the emperor has no
> clothes. :o)
But you do if you want him to wear something else.
>
> >The ends justify the means?
>
> Where exactly did I saw those?
It is a common phrase, to wit: The ends never truly justify the means.
Killing an innocent child is wrong, even if the child will someday become
Hitler. (Yes, I know, Godwin strikes again.)
<snip inanity and repetition>
Yours briskly,
The versatile,
iBuck
>owners do." Not all gun-related killings are criminal acts, you know.
Not all of em are by the gun owner either...
iBuck
>> straw man.
A good many knives are designed to kill people, and they are generally
restricted for that reason as well... Which leads to the absurd situation
that one can carry a concealed pistol for self defense, but not a sword...
iBuck
>Because there's more than one type of capitalist, and because it is possible
>to support free trade without supporting illegal file sharing, your
>statement is incorrect.
Not only that, but his entire characterization of file sharing as "free market"
is 180 from the reality, the illegal filesharing model, operates on a concept
of -abolishing- ownership of creative works, and nulifying the social contract
under which the public limit's it's use of the work, in exchange for the artist
distubting it. That's a socialist too communist model, not capitalist..
A true "free market" in creative works would take us back to the middle ages,
where artists sold their works to the highest bidder, or survived on patronage
or comission from people who enjoyed their work, and the public got the table
scraps that those people who paid for the art would deign to throw them..
Personally I like monetizing widespread distribution, I think in the end the
filesharers may just be shooting themselves in the foot..
iBuck
>phrasing you extend that to include "racial slavery" and "gender slavery".
>Tarring two things with the same brush still doesn't make them the same.
Would have been easier to just make the distinction between voluntary, and
involuntary slavery...or permenent and temporary...
Silver Seams
news:10jb52p...@corp.supernews.com:
> Nope. Under law, the record companies have to give the artist
> *something* in return for his work. The "something" can be whatever
> the artist accepts as appropriate payment and agrees to under
> contract. The record companies are under no obligation to tell the
> artists what they're willing to pay... this is why artists have
> managers and agents, after all... and the artist is not required to
> sign a contract they don't like. It would be entirely legal to sell a
> song for a handful of jelly beans, but only if the artist agreed to
> it.
Actually, you might read Free Culture (it's free:
http://www.free-culture.cc/freeculture.pdf
for some interesting insight on what record companies are and aren't under
obligation to do...
--
http://www.silverseams.com/ - Fursuits, plushies, and other stuff
Currently on Furbid: Black/frost wolf tail
http://www.furbid.ws/cgi-bin/auction.pl?alluser&Silver_seams
iBuck
Same here..
BR
Others have already addressed the other statements, but...
> The only way I can sample heavy metal Cd's is to go up to the nearest
> big city (about an hour by train) for a shop what stocks heavy metal
> C.D's, and even then, they tend not to have a good range.
I'm sorry, but I've known of people who traveled the world to satisfy
their "interests". I've travel far over the years to satisfy my
"interests". Basically all your argument is "I want to take the easy way
out to satisfy my interests." Besides as PlanetFur pointed out.
Entertainment isn't a right.
> I don't need to be a clothier to notice that the emperor has no clothes.
> :o)
>
>
As the saying goes. "If you're not part of the solution? You're part of
the problem." Illegal file-traders are part of the problem.
>>Anyway I think it smacks of arrogance for a uninvited third party to try
>>to dictate to the artist at least what the terms of their contract
>>should be. Anyway you want to be a champion of
>
> What, like the record companies money obsessved exectuives who dictate
> policty fofrm on high?
Of which the artists are free to decline.
PlanetFur
>>But saying illegal dl's are acceptable if you can't afford it, it works
>> out to
>>the same thing.. (assuming of course you have a computer)
>
> I didn't say they were acceptable. I said they're the only option I've got
> right now. See, I know I'm doing something wrong, and I do feel bad about
> it; but since I literally have no other options available to me right now, I
> swallow the bile and listen to the music the only way I know how.
Wow, where does your logic go?
It's not acceptable and it's bad. Yet you still do it, knowing this.
You're condoning your own actions because you are justifying the means
that it's your only way (even though you know it's not).
You're saying it's not acceptable and it's wrong, but continuing to do
it and condoning it as your only way is saying it IS acceptable to you.
If it's not acceptable, STOP DOING IT.
>>Frankly the same options that people had to listen to their favorites when
>> they
>>were cash deprived -before- filesharing are still out there, dig out your
>> LP's
>>or cassetes that you bought in the 80's.. I still do.. find an oldies
>> station
>>near you..
>
> I was born in 1970. In the '80's, I didn't even have enough milk money to
> buy a cassette, and I couldn't go to the mall anyway. The family budget was
> tied up in private school until 1984, when I moved to public school... and
> got no more money than before. (Mother wasn't a financial wizard.) My
> whole savings went to college in 1989, and helped me get the Associate
> degree that does absolutely nothing for me to this day. (The one cassette I
> *did* have... the soundtrack to "Footloose"... got eaten by the player in my
> father's old Buick on my way to high school. My father replaced it with a
> CD.)
I was delivering papers at age 8. I had a job pretty much since then,
and even when I didn't have a boss to report to, I did odd tasks or jobs
for people to get income.
Are you a quadraplegic shut-in? You're on welfare, you admit it, and you
can't seem to find SOMETHING to bring some extra money in under the
table or just trade services to get the music you want? You can't go to
a music store and ask them if they'd bring you on even part time, or to
sweep their parking lot in exchange for a couple used CDs once a week?
You can't take all those books you have to a Half Price Books and get
the money to go get the music you so need to live that you do
unacceptable and wrong things to keep getting it? You can't just go to
Burger King or Taco Bell for part-time work to do this?
You complain about not having a job and needing the music, and so far
I'm not hearing you really trying to find a legal way to get that music.
You find it acceptable to do bad things because that's the easiest way
for you.
Who cares about the artists who probably had a much worse time trying to
claw into the music business than you, got raped by the record companies
in the 80s, never saw anything beyond their advances due to the
contracts they signed? But here you are, on welfare, trying to make ends
meet, and needing to download illegally that music so you can listen to
it because it's too hard to get money and buy it legally, even though
most of those bands you like are still busting their asses to make money
on that music by touring or releasing independent music now.
> There *are* oldies stations out here, yes. They come out of the '60's for
> one hour a day.:/
And there *are* oldies stations online. If you're on a newsgroup,
chances are you can listen to a media stream on the internet of another
city's oldies that will play what you like. Go look.
> And I applaud you, but my depression isn't the reason I'm downloading... and
> not from Napster, they're a pay service now. I'm downloading because it's
> the only way to hear the songs I like on my budget. (Budget for personal
> enjoyment: $0.00)
I buy CDs, but not in the numbers I used to. How do I fill those voids?
There's a lot of quality songs released FOR FREE. Are you really that
finicky that only certain 80s bands will work for you, and there's
absolutely nothing else, not even stuff at the library, which will give
you that entertainment you want?
I *love* www.vgmix.com. Amateur musicians and samplers who take music
part of or inspired by video games and make them into brand new music.
Downloadable FOR FREE. No limits, free entertainment by people who feel
their music should be distributed for free. Hey, people right up your alley.
Then there's They Might Be Giants, another band I love, who give away
free music as well. Go to their website, www.tmbg.com.
Some bands from the 80s, as well, have sites up with free mp3s or ways
to get their music for free or cheap. Just search.
> As a side note, the online arguments are quite relaxing, really. That's why
> I keep flaming Mousie. It helps me calm down when I can take my aggressions
> out on a deserving target.:>
Sure, but when you tell a forum with artists like Shawntae Howard, whose
professional works help with his income, that as long as you can't
afford it, you can download his comics for free (as an analogy), you're
going to be insulting the artists who bring you joy. None of us,
probably, are part of the 80s bands you seem bent on getting music
illegally, but just think about that analogy.
Would you find it acceptable if someone wanted to get furry dead-tree
comics for free because he couldn't afford it, and was downloading them,
then talking about it on an 80s music newsgroup? If knowing that he's
helping to propagate the popularity of downloading so that those who
possibly *could* afford it but instead find it cheaper to get the free
works illegally are taking away possible sales from the artists?
I hope you wouldn't, and can start seeing why I, and others, find your
arguments insulting. You can't afford it. Doesn't make it right. So
please, don't talk about it with people who make some money in similar ways.
PlanetFur
>>What, like the record companies money obsessved exectuives who dictate
>>policty fofrm on high?
>
> Of which the artists are free to decline.
Hell, the argument that the record companies/RIAA control the
distribution chains anymore is a fallacy.
The local CD pawn-shop/record store chain has a consignment-based system
for local bands. You pay to have your CDs done, bring them X amount,
they sell them at $Y that you choose and present you with a percentage
after they sell.
There are online distribution chains, you can put on your own online
radio station, and even neighborhood radio stations are legal for a
certain range.
Artists who continue signing their lives into the RIAA's companies are
looking for one of two things: Big bucks or high glamor. And both are
hard to come by. Otherwise, anything else they could give you, you could
do on your own with a little investment and a little more hard work.
Silver Seams
news:ch4ubd$26l6$1...@velox.critter.net:
> And there *are* oldies stations online. If you're on a newsgroup,
"Classic rock." "Oldies" is older than what he's looking for.
PlanetFur
>>And there *are* oldies stations online. If you're on a newsgroup,
>
> "Classic rock." "Oldies" is older than what he's looking for.
Local "Classic Rock" station, plays from the 70s to early 90s hard,
hair and alternative rock.
You can listen to it live online.
The Saprophyte
Wanderer wrote:
Now see, this is how wolves get a bad reputation. Some down on his luck
omega has trouble chasing down deer on his own, so he decides it's
allright to download the occasional lamb over the fenceline. Hey, the
Farmer has plenty of other sheep, and the ewes will just make more,
So nobody's getting hurt, right?.
Aren't they? Aren't they really?
Moving on...
As was pointed out, there several free internet radio providers
featuring dozens of 80's stations. Winamp, real.com, netscape,
yahoo, and others. Each require their own software as a rule, but it's
free, and if you find a decent feed, you really only need to go with
one. The only real problems you might see are full servers and frequent
rebuffering. I had a not-bad one on today that had 80's alternative
stuff I'd never heard before. (I have the opposite problem from you.
I get mostly 80's and contemporary crap and damn little alternative.)
As for the internet, if ya gotta have it, you might want to see if
there's a Netzero server in your local call zone. It isn't free anymore,
but it's still about as cheap as you can get.
>>There's also used CD's The older the music, generally the cheaper. There's
>>a used book and music shop nearby that has a sale on used CD's $2.00 They
>>have used CD's comming out the wazoo.
>>
>
>
> That's a great idea, if I can get a job. Right now, the book I buy today
> could mean the lights going out next month.
Might I suggest adding Misc.consumers.frugal-living to your newsgroup
reading? Also perhaps Alt.dumpster. Lot of dumpster divers help keep
themselves afloat on their findings. They also can be very giving.
This may also be of use for your acquisition problems:
>
> Yours in a depression thanks to the recession,
>
> The wolfish,
>
> Wanderer
We need a suppression of all this aggression.
--
The Saprophyte
--
The KKK took my Vargr Away
Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
>Nope. A car is designed to move from place to place. A human is neccessary
You're indulgeing in mental masturbation. too much and you'll go
blind. :o(
>for guidance control. That's why a word for car is "automobile": "Auto"
>(self) + "mobile" (moving). A fireplace poker is designed to poke the logs
>in the fireplace. Knives are designed to cut. Bricks are designed to stand
>up under pressure. Pipes are designed to remain rigid under load.
Stop attacking straw men and engageing in mental masturbation.
Those have nothing to do with the fact that guns are designed for
killing people.
>> A gun is um... Designed to kill people by propelling little bits of
>> metal at hundereds of KmpH.
>
> A gun is designed to shoot little bits of metal at high velocity. A
>gun fulfills its design purpose
>...shoot at...
> a trooper,
People do not use handguns to shoot at tanks. You use anti-tank
missles to shot at tanks and guns to murder people.
Also, your argument hinges on the fallacly that only the milittary
have guns.
Whereas, normal people (in america) have guns which they use to murder
each other or hurt each other. did you see the thing I posted
>> >That's nice for you. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who
>> >download copyrighted material illegally never buy anything as a result:
>> >They have what they wanted, and are either unable or unwilling to buy
>> >something.
>>
>> Post proof or retract.
>
>You mean besides having half the newsgroup blasting me for downloading music
>I can't afford to buy?:>
Then they should be ashamed of themselves. :o(
><snip... it's been about money since bards made appearances *at* court
>instead of *in* court>
>
>> >Small press. "Furnation Magazine" barely makes costs as it is. Sibe
>> >doesn't give any information on his site to point you to the magazine's
>true
>> >publisher. Put the two together, and you have a dwindling likelihood of
>> >future Furnations.
>>
>> There will always be more pr0n.
>> Those who will buy it, will buy it. Those who don't wont.
>> You yourself said that.
>
>Since you obviously haven't read FurNation (I live near Nexxus, so I get to
>see it sometimes), allow me to inform you: There's more there than "pr0n".
>While the vast majority of the subject matter *is* adult, the artwork is of
>high quality and the writing is solid. How much "pr0n" can you say that
>about these days?
I didn't know you looked at pr0n.
>> >He was responding to your comparing file sharing to smuggling, an
>activity
>> >which is illegal at Federal and State levels. In any event, by
>downloading
>> >a legal copy that the artist authorizes, you're not hurting anyone but
>the
>> >record company. By downloading a copy that's illegal, you're hurting
>nobody
>> >but the artist; the record company will still get their pound of flesh,
>so
>> >only the artist's cut gets whittled.
>>
>> You're still at a straw man, Maybe, just maybe it would be better if
>> record companies didn't get a pound of flesh eh?
>
>Considering that's how they live, that could be disappointing. The record
>companies record, copy, and distribute the work, as well as advertising it.
>In a total breakdown of costs by independent auditors, the recording
>industry is making maybe $0.50 a record at most.
Cite please and give the people who made that survey (I somehow
suspect they will have connections to the recording companies...)
>> >And anything which takes control of the work away from the artist without
>> >giving him anything in return is Bad. This is why illegal file sharing
>is
>> >Bad.
>>
>> Ah, just like record companies. :o)
>
>Nope. Under law, the record companies have to give the artist *something*
>in return for his work. The "something" can be whatever the artist accepts
Like peanuts.
>as appropriate payment and agrees to under contract. The record companies
>are under no obligation to tell the artists what they're willing to pay...
>this is why artists have managers and agents, after all... and the artist is
>not required to sign a contract they don't like. It would be entirely legal
>to sell a song for a handful of jelly beans, but only if the artist agreed
>to it.
The law can be an ass you know :o(
>> >Again, good for you. You're a rare exception. Hopefully the RIAA won't
>> >have you arrested the way they did the other people who didn't abuse the
>> >system.
>>
>> OH NO! I AM SO SCARED. I will play the worlds tiniest violin.
>
>I said "didn't" abuse the system. If they connect your IP to a download,
>they may prosecute you anyway. If you can pay court costs, of course,
>they'll lose... IPs don't point to a specific household, after all. But
>they *are* this paranoid.
OH NO! I AM SO SCARED of your attempst to threaten me on behalf of the
record companies.
>> >You have the sense of humor of an unfired brick, I see. He was
>attempting a
>> >parody of your "change or die" quote up there.
>>
>> If you support the free market and capitlism, you should be agreeing
>> with what I said about file sharing, if not, you are a pork barrel
>> captalist. :o(
>>
>
><FWEET!> That remark was offsides for presenting a false "either-or".
>Because there's more than one type of capitalist, and because it is possible
>to support free trade without supporting illegal file sharing, your
>statement is incorrect.
You're attacking a straw man. I'm not talking about "free trade"
(which is merely tariff free trade between NATIONS), I'm talking about
the FREE MARKET, which is not quite the same. HTH.
The KKK took my Vargr Away
Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
>"The KKK took my Vargr Away" <dsa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:41358ad8...@news.individual.net...
>> Slavery was perfectly legal at the time of the roman empire.
>> People could sell themselves into slavery to cover debts, they entered
>> into these contracts legally and willfully.
>>
>> Do you thus condone slavery?
>
><FWEET!> Illegal comparison, using modern morals to condemn a past practice
>and attempt to extend that condemnation to the subject argued against.
>While your target may find "debtor slavery" to be acceptable, by your
>phrasing you extend that to include "racial slavery" and "gender slavery".
>Tarring two things with the same brush still doesn't make them the same.
Modern morals can be used to condemn a past practice.
That's how we know things like slavery are bad today.
>> I don't need to be a clothier to notice that the emperor has no
>> clothes. :o)
>
>But you do if you want him to wear something else.
No. I merely say "wear something else, you look silly without any
clothes on"
>> >The ends justify the means?
>>
>> Where exactly did I saw those?
>
>It is a common phrase
But where did I say it?
The KKK took my Vargr Away
Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 08:39:53 +0000, The KKK took my Vargr Away wrote:
>
>Others have already addressed the other statements, but...
>
>> The only way I can sample heavy metal Cd's is to go up to the nearest
>> big city (about an hour by train) for a shop what stocks heavy metal
>> C.D's, and even then, they tend not to have a good range.
>
>I'm sorry, but I've known of people who traveled the world to satisfy
>their "interests". I've travel far over the years to satisfy my
>"interests". Basically all your argument is "I want to take the easy way
>out to satisfy my interests." Besides as PlanetFur pointed out.
>Entertainment isn't a right.
Gosh, people who travel the world in search of a CD.
You must know some *really* rich people who can afford to do that.
>> I don't need to be a clothier to notice that the emperor has no clothes.
>> :o)
>>
>>
>As the saying goes. "If you're not part of the solution? You're part of
>the problem." Illegal file-traders are part of the problem.
That sounds like the "if you're not with us, you're against us"
fallacy.
>>>Anyway I think it smacks of arrogance for a uninvited third party to try
>>>to dictate to the artist at least what the terms of their contract
>>>should be. Anyway you want to be a champion of
>>
>> What, like the record companies money obsessved exectuives who dictate
>> policty fofrm on high?
>
>Of which the artists are free to decline.
That's a false dillema becaues I mean, You could say: "you are free
not to breathe", but then we need air, and money of course to live.
:o(
Wanderer
news:ch4ubd$26l6$1...@velox.critter.net...
> Wanderer wrote:
>
> >>But saying illegal dl's are acceptable if you can't afford it, it works
> >> out to
> >>the same thing.. (assuming of course you have a computer)
> >
> > I didn't say they were acceptable. I said they're the only option I've
got
> > right now. See, I know I'm doing something wrong, and I do feel bad
about
> > it; but since I literally have no other options available to me right
now, I
> > swallow the bile and listen to the music the only way I know how.
>
> Wow, where does your logic go?
Straight to the fact that I'm violating copyright. But since I, again, have
no other option at this time, I really can't do much else.
>
> It's not acceptable and it's bad. Yet you still do it, knowing this.
Yep. I'm angry with myself, but I have no other way of acquiring music at
this time.
>
> You're condoning your own actions because you are justifying the means
> that it's your only way (even though you know it's not).
Nope. I'm not condoning my actions at all. What I'm doing is a violation
of copyright law, which is a federal statute. What I'm doing is
acknowledging I'm wrong, but that I have no other way of acquiring music at
this time.
>
> You're saying it's not acceptable and it's wrong, but continuing to do
> it and condoning it as your only way is saying it IS acceptable to you.
>
> If it's not acceptable, STOP DOING IT.
I don't condone it, and I reserve it only for music that is, pardon my
saying so, important to me. More on that shortly...
When I was 8, I spent every spring and summer indoors suffering from severe
allergies to the cottonwood trees all over our neighborhood. Every winter,
I came down with pneumonia. That leaves autumn, when I was going to school.
Throw in an overprotective mother, and it's a wonder I'm not asking, "You
can get a job that early?". Plus, my neighborhood had a surplus of kids.
All the leaf-raking, lawn-mowing, and snow-shoveling (when applicable... we
don't get much snow) jobs were filled to overflowing.
>
> Are you a quadraplegic shut-in? You're on welfare, you admit it, and you
> can't seem to find SOMETHING to bring some extra money in under the
> table or just trade services to get the music you want? You can't go to
> a music store and ask them if they'd bring you on even part time, or to
> sweep their parking lot in exchange for a couple used CDs once a week?
The local music store refuses to barter, and has soundly ignored my last
seven applications for employment. I have applied for work at every grocery
store, book store, computer store, government agency, state agency, city
agency, hospital, and flooring installer I can find. I have applied at toy
stores, been turned down by temp agencies (they insist your previous job
have lasted at least a full 12 months, and I was one month shy when I quit
to take care of Mother), been recommended by favored employees for
positions, and still have no job. Nobody who goes to my church is hiring,
the library hasn't contacted me regarding my application, the police
department turned down my application to be a 911 operator for reasons
nobody seems to know, (and after I aced the performance tests, according to
HR), and the only place that called me back was a pure-commission,
work-from-home place that smelled of mismanagement. So if you can think of
something in Mesquite, Texas that I *haven't* tried, please, Please, PLEASE
tell me!!!
>
> You can't take all those books you have to a Half Price Books and get
> the money to go get the music you so need to live that you do
> unacceptable and wrong things to keep getting it? You can't just go to
> Burger King or Taco Bell for part-time work to do this?
Half-price doesn't want books as common as I've got, and I've been rejected
by every fast food place in Mesquite. Next?
>
> You complain about not having a job and needing the music, and so far
> I'm not hearing you really trying to find a legal way to get that music.
> You find it acceptable to do bad things because that's the easiest way
> for you.
Nope, I find it unacceptable. I'm very sorry that I have no other way to
acquire music in the near future, but until I can find some way of getting a
job, I am living on my mother's small savings as my inheritance. In two
months, I may be living in a fully-owned house, with no heat, no lights, no
water, and a steadily-growing tax bill.
>
> Who cares about the artists who probably had a much worse time trying to
> claw into the music business than you, got raped by the record companies
> in the 80s, never saw anything beyond their advances due to the
> contracts they signed? But here you are, on welfare, trying to make ends
> meet, and needing to download illegally that music so you can listen to
> it because it's too hard to get money and buy it legally, even though
> most of those bands you like are still busting their asses to make money
> on that music by touring or releasing independent music now.
To date, I have downloaded the following:
Anything for Love, by Meat Loaf: I loved the video, so I downloaded the
song.
Total Eclipse of the Heart: An old fave of mine.
Several free samples from Onemusic.com: I like dramatic music.
Cartoon Heroes, by Aqua: I heard it at MFM.
Hungry Like the Wolf, by Duran Duran: 'Nuff said, yes?:>
No One Lives Forever, by Oingo Boingo: Saw it in a Tiny Toons fanfic.
Indy Action, a free sample from LucasArts
I Wish I Had All The Silver in the Silvery Moon, by Billy Williams:
Downloaded from a site that provides copies of old wax-cylinder records.
Everything else is either from MP3.com, or came with my computer. (Well,
except "Acting and Appearing Nightly", but I deleted that one when I got
tired of it.)
No, that's it. That's everything I've downloaded and kept. I *tried* to
download "I'll Never Find Another You", but nobody has it.:/
>
> > There *are* oldies stations out here, yes. They come out of the '60's
for
> > one hour a day.:/
>
> And there *are* oldies stations online. If you're on a newsgroup,
> chances are you can listen to a media stream on the internet of another
> city's oldies that will play what you like. Go look.
Uh-huh. That's
Very nice, but
I'm on
Dialup, so
Everyth-
-ing comes
Out like
This.
>
> > And I applaud you, but my depression isn't the reason I'm downloading...
and
> > not from Napster, they're a pay service now. I'm downloading because
it's
> > the only way to hear the songs I like on my budget. (Budget for
personal
> > enjoyment: $0.00)
>
> I buy CDs, but not in the numbers I used to. How do I fill those voids?
> There's a lot of quality songs released FOR FREE. Are you really that
> finicky that only certain 80s bands will work for you, and there's
> absolutely nothing else, not even stuff at the library, which will give
> you that entertainment you want?
The library has only donated CDs. To date, that means bargain-bin
classical, a small amount of country and western, several "ethnic" CDs
regarding the music of various countries, and a lot of romance novels on CD.
Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of music and musical styles. But right
now, and ever since Mother came down with cancer, only '80's bands do
anything for me.
>
> I *love* www.vgmix.com. Amateur musicians and samplers who take music
> part of or inspired by video games and make them into brand new music.
> Downloadable FOR FREE. No limits, free entertainment by people who feel
> their music should be distributed for free. Hey, people right up your
alley.
I'll try it. Thank you.
>
> Then there's They Might Be Giants, another band I love, who give away
> free music as well. Go to their website, www.tmbg.com.
I'm not that big on them.:/ Don't get me wrong, some of their stuff is
okay, but... not my thing.
>
> Some bands from the 80s, as well, have sites up with free mp3s or ways
> to get their music for free or cheap. Just search.
Did, and found a lot of "Here's what my playlist looks like" sites. Not too
helpful.
>
> > As a side note, the online arguments are quite relaxing, really. That's
why
> > I keep flaming Mousie. It helps me calm down when I can take my
aggressions
> > out on a deserving target.:>
>
> Sure, but when you tell a forum with artists like Shawntae Howard, whose
> professional works help with his income, that as long as you can't
> afford it, you can download his comics for free (as an analogy), you're
> going to be insulting the artists who bring you joy. None of us,
> probably, are part of the 80s bands you seem bent on getting music
> illegally, but just think about that analogy.
<sigh> I do, every night. Honestly, I do feel badly about it, but I don't
seem to have that indefinable something that makes suicide a possibility. A
handicap, I admit, but since I'm stuck with living, I'm trying to make the
best of it. In the meantime, I keep sending out applications and not being
called for interviews, visiting Daddy at the hospital, watching as my sister
charges a heartache present to my Discover card that I can barely make
minimum payments on from Mother's savings, giving the cat her insulin shots,
cleaning up what the dog destroys, feeling about two inches tall as my
neighbors' son mows the lawn since I ran the new mower Mother had me buy
over a hidden brick, wondering when the next month of food stamps will
arrive as I eat another cheese sandwich, and suffering insomnia until I fall
asleep and have nightmares.
>
> Would you find it acceptable if someone wanted to get furry dead-tree
> comics for free because he couldn't afford it, and was downloading them,
> then talking about it on an 80s music newsgroup? If knowing that he's
> helping to propagate the popularity of downloading so that those who
> possibly *could* afford it but instead find it cheaper to get the free
> works illegally are taking away possible sales from the artists?
<sigh> No, I wouldn't. And if I had the money, I'd be buying music instead
of violating copyright law right, left and center. Thankfully, I'm not
popular, since the few people who don't misidentify me as a flaming queen or
a transsexual can't stand my sense of humor. So I doubt anybody will try to
imitate me anytime soon. I still feel horrible about it, of course, but
with suicide blocked off... <shrug> I'm stuck with living and hating
myself, so I'll just have to make the best of it.
>
> I hope you wouldn't, and can start seeing why I, and others, find your
> arguments insulting. You can't afford it. Doesn't make it right. So
> please, don't talk about it with people who make some money in similar
ways.
<nod> Understood. I'm sorry to have bothered you. I'll shut up about it
now. Sorry about all this. My fault entirely.
Yours apologetically,
The self-disgusted,
Wanderer
news:ch69db$pm2$1...@velox.critter.net...
>
> Now see, this is how wolves get a bad reputation. Some down on his luck
> omega has trouble chasing down deer on his own, so he decides it's
> allright to download the occasional lamb over the fenceline. Hey, the
> Farmer has plenty of other sheep, and the ewes will just make more,
> So nobody's getting hurt, right?.
>
> Aren't they? Aren't they really?
<small smile> Thanks. I needed that.
>
> Moving on...
>
> As was pointed out, there several free internet radio providers
> featuring dozens of 80's stations. Winamp, real.com, netscape,
> yahoo, and others. Each require their own software as a rule, but it's
> free, and if you find a decent feed, you really only need to go with
> one. The only real problems you might see are full servers and frequent
> rebuffering. I had a not-bad one on today that had 80's alternative
> stuff I'd never heard before. (I have the opposite problem from you.
> I get mostly 80's and contemporary crap and damn little alternative.)
Unfortunately, my dialup's very slow and staticky when it comes to music.
Fine if you want to listen to four-second chunks between five-second pauses.
> As for the internet, if ya gotta have it, you might want to see if
> there's a Netzero server in your local call zone. It isn't free anymore,
> but it's still about as cheap as you can get.
I've got even cheaper, and it's paid up through next year. (The bill came
due before Mother died.) No, if I can afford to keep the phone line open, I
can have Internet until March.
>
>
> >>There's also used CD's The older the music, generally the cheaper.
There's
> >>a used book and music shop nearby that has a sale on used CD's $2.00
They
> >>have used CD's comming out the wazoo.
> >>
> >
> >
> > That's a great idea, if I can get a job. Right now, the book I buy
today
> > could mean the lights going out next month.
>
> Might I suggest adding Misc.consumers.frugal-living to your newsgroup
> reading? Also perhaps Alt.dumpster. Lot of dumpster divers help keep
> themselves afloat on their findings. They also can be very giving.
<sigh> I hate myself already, between having every employer in Mesquite
reject me (except the adult video store, where I can't find the manager to
get rejected by him), having a mounting credit card debt, my father being in
a hospital I have to drive half an hour to get to, my mother being dead, the
other witness to the will being "sick" so I can't even enter probate, the
food stamps have run out, and so on. I'm not quite ready for the degree of
self-loathing I'll acquire if I start coaxing handouts from complete
strangers, no. Give me another month.
> This may also be of use for your acquisition problems:
>
> http://www.freecycle.org/
<nod> I've joined the one for my area, and we'll see what happens.
>
> >
> > Yours in a depression thanks to the recession,
> >
>
> We need a suppression of all this aggression.
>
. . .
Maybe later. Telling the whole newsgroup what a hopeless, worthless loser I
am didn't help my mood.
Yours sadly,
The drooping,
BR
<Super-sized snip>
Gee were to start? Were to start?
Well first you're not alone. Second I suggest you get out of that house
and get some aquantences (there are organizations for this). Staring at
four walls and a ceiling will drive you batty. Plus the networking and
social experience will do you some good. One the pension and insurance,
hammer them. Let them know you haven't forgotten. The house is fully paid
off. Can you say equity? On the job front. Keep on them. Follow-up
follow-up, most people don't. Turn rejection into a learning experience,
ask why in a nonconfrontational manner. Go through the entire house and
note all those things not needed. Sell! See unemployment not as
punishment, but an opportunity. Learn something you've never had time to
learn. Try volunteer social work (feel good, occupies your time and can
lead to a job oppertunity if you keep your ears open plus it makes it
easier to answer the question "well what have you been doing the past few
month"). You're at the bottom. That means that it's uphill from there.
Hang in their.
> Yours apologetically,
>
> The self-disgusted,
>
> Wanderer
> wand...@ticnet.com
>
> "Where am I going? I don't quite know. What does it matter *where*
> people go? Down to the woods where the bluebells grow! Anywhere!
> Anywhere! *I* don't know!"
> -- a. a. milne
--
PlanetFur
> Straight to the fact that I'm violating copyright. But since I, again, have
> no other option at this time, I really can't do much else.
And you're condoning it.
Because you SAY you're not, your actions speak otherwise.
Stop it, if it's so wrong and bad.
> Yep. I'm angry with myself, but I have no other way of acquiring music at
> this time.
Yes, you do. You just refuse because it takes work.
> Nope. I'm not condoning my actions at all. What I'm doing is a violation
> of copyright law, which is a federal statute. What I'm doing is
> acknowledging I'm wrong, but that I have no other way of acquiring music at
> this time.
YES, YOU DO.
You'll see, yet again, later.
> The library has only donated CDs. To date, that means bargain-bin
> classical, a small amount of country and western, several "ethnic" CDs
> regarding the music of various countries, and a lot of romance novels on CD.
> Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of music and musical styles. But right
> now, and ever since Mother came down with cancer, only '80's bands do
> anything for me.
As I said before, if the library does not have what you want, YOU MAY
REQUEST IT FROM ANOTHER LIBRARY. The Public Library System will send out
materials to other libraries who need them for patrons. If your library
has a slim selection, and definitely none of the CDs you want, request
that they get them from another library.
It may not happen overnight, but it'll happen if another library has it
on its shelves.
Here's another way. Can you write or draw, or do ANYTHING someone may
have the need for? Barter that way. Or just ask people if they'd be
willing to part with those CDs you want if they no longer want them.
It's 80s music, there's bound to be people out there with old music
they've replaced with new media, so maybe you can catch a cassette or an LP.
>>I *love* www.vgmix.com. Amateur musicians and samplers who take music
>>part of or inspired by video games and make them into brand new music.
>>Downloadable FOR FREE. No limits, free entertainment by people who feel
>>their music should be distributed for free. Hey, people right up your
>> alley.
>
> I'll try it. Thank you.
Just one example. Search around. Go to local concerts which are free.
You're in Texas, bound to be several during the summers.
>>Then there's They Might Be Giants, another band I love, who give away
>>free music as well. Go to their website, www.tmbg.com.
>
> I'm not that big on them.:/ Don't get me wrong, some of their stuff is
> okay, but... not my thing.
But still, free entertainment. There's bound to be many other artists
who do the same thing.
Silver Seams
> I don't condone it, and I reserve it only for music that is, pardon my
> saying so, important to me. More on that shortly...
Dude, send me your snailmail address, I'll loan you some CDs, on condition
that you *not* laugh at any of our selections (we were all younger then,
right?), and that you send them back... someday.
Anybody else in? Put up or shut up time.
PlanetFur
>>I don't condone it, and I reserve it only for music that is, pardon my
>>saying so, important to me. More on that shortly...
>
>
> Dude, send me your snailmail address, I'll loan you some CDs, on condition
> that you *not* laugh at any of our selections (we were all younger then,
> right?), and that you send them back... someday.
>
> Anybody else in? Put up or shut up time.
See? What I said he could do.
Unfortunately, nothing I have is of his tastes.
Silver Seams
> See? What I said he could do.
Yeah. Only... the RIAA isn't making any more money this way than the
previous way. Funny, innit?
(No, I *don't* condone free-for-all filesharing. But no, I don't believe
that the RIAA should own our culture forever and ever amen.)
PlanetFur
> Yeah. Only... the RIAA isn't making any more money this way than the
> previous way. Funny, innit?
>
> (No, I *don't* condone free-for-all filesharing. But no, I don't believe
> that the RIAA should own our culture forever and ever amen.)
They don't make any more money off used CDs, either. But they're legal.
So's loaning a CD to someone else.
Nothing wrong with sending someone music to listen to on its original
medium.
Brock Ulfsen
> Nope, I find it unacceptable. I'm very sorry that I have no other way to
> acquire music in the near future, but until I can find some way of getting a
> job, I am living on my mother's small savings as my inheritance. In two
> months, I may be living in a fully-owned house, with no heat, no lights, no
> water, and a steadily-growing tax bill.
Have you considered renting out a couple of rooms?
...Brock.
Wanderer
> Wanderer wrote:
>
> > Straight to the fact that I'm violating copyright. But since I, again,
have
> > no other option at this time, I really can't do much else.
>
> And you're condoning it.
>
> Because you SAY you're not, your actions speak otherwise.
>
> Stop it, if it's so wrong and bad.
<sigh> Someday I must ask my old psychology professor why it is that
self-loathing attracts those who don't think you've got enough of it.
Admittedly, the last thing I downloaded was, "Total Eclipse of the Heart",
because nobody was playing it and it fits my depression beautifully, and
true, that was last month, shortly after Mother died. But yes, I already
hate myself for doing something wrong, you really don't need to remind me to
do it.
>
> > Yep. I'm angry with myself, but I have no other way of acquiring music
at
> > this time.
>
> Yes, you do. You just refuse because it takes work.
If I could get work, that would mean I have value to someone, even as a warm
body. Since I do not, nobody will hire me.
>
> > Nope. I'm not condoning my actions at all. What I'm doing is a
violation
> > of copyright law, which is a federal statute. What I'm doing is
> > acknowledging I'm wrong, but that I have no other way of acquiring music
at
> > this time.
>
> YES, YOU DO.
>
> You'll see, yet again, later.
<sigh>
>
> > The library has only donated CDs. To date, that means bargain-bin
> > classical, a small amount of country and western, several "ethnic" CDs
> > regarding the music of various countries, and a lot of romance novels on
CD.
> > Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of music and musical styles. But right
> > now, and ever since Mother came down with cancer, only '80's bands do
> > anything for me.
>
> As I said before, if the library does not have what you want, YOU MAY
> REQUEST IT FROM ANOTHER LIBRARY. The Public Library System will send out
> materials to other libraries who need them for patrons. If your library
> has a slim selection, and definitely none of the CDs you want, request
> that they get them from another library.
I have a card for the Mesquite Public Library, which has only what I've
already described. Inter-library loans may only be used within the library.
The library has no CD players. My only surviving portable has a faulty
headphone jack and a faulty volume control that will only make noise at the
higher settings.
The library does not have what I want, and I cannot listen to other
libraries' CDs in the library, nor take them home.
>
> It may not happen overnight, but it'll happen if another library has it
> on its shelves.
>
> Here's another way. Can you write or draw, or do ANYTHING someone may
> have the need for? Barter that way. Or just ask people if they'd be
> willing to part with those CDs you want if they no longer want them.
> It's 80s music, there's bound to be people out there with old music
> they've replaced with new media, so maybe you can catch a cassette or an
LP.
Nobody around here has it. All the people I know listen to C&W or
alternative rock. Those who get rid of their stuff usually give it to
family members (I have no remaining family in the D/FW area) or to a thrift
store which resells it.
>
> >>I *love* www.vgmix.com. Amateur musicians and samplers who take music
> >>part of or inspired by video games and make them into brand new music.
> >>Downloadable FOR FREE. No limits, free entertainment by people who feel
> >>their music should be distributed for free. Hey, people right up your
> >> alley.
> >
> > I'll try it. Thank you.
>
> Just one example. Search around. Go to local concerts which are free.
> You're in Texas, bound to be several during the summers.
The "free" concerts are held inside Six Flags amusement park. The concert
is free, yes. To get there, you buy a ticket for more than $20.
>
> >>Then there's They Might Be Giants, another band I love, who give away
> >>free music as well. Go to their website, www.tmbg.com.
> >
> > I'm not that big on them.:/ Don't get me wrong, some of their stuff is
> > okay, but... not my thing.
>
> But still, free entertainment. There's bound to be many other artists
> who do the same thing.
<sigh>
Yours with a dragging tail,
The wolfish,
Wanderer
> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:29:07 -0500, Wanderer wrote:
>
> <Super-sized snip>
>
> Gee were to start? Were to start?
> Well first you're not alone. Second I suggest you get out of that house
> and get some aquantences (there are organizations for this). Staring at
> four walls and a ceiling will drive you batty. Plus the networking and
> social experience will do you some good.
<sigh> I have a twice-weekly game group, of which two of the six members
(counting me) are employed; one as a security guard, one at IBM, and neither
is hiring. I go to church every week, and nobody's job is hiring. The
grocery stores recognize me on sight, but the manager of the closest one
isn't willing to access the computer to even see if my application
registered. (The other two are both Kroger, where the home office... in
another city... makes the decisions.) The librarians know me by name, but
that doesn't seem to help me get the Library Aide job, which is the only one
you don't need a Master's in Library Sciences to get. Most of my neighbors
are retired. Those who aren't retired don't know of any openings.
> One the pension and insurance,
> hammer them. Let them know you haven't forgotten.
On the insurance, that's possible. On the pension, they're a long-distance
call.
> The house is fully paid
> off. Can you say equity?
Um, I don't have anyplace to live but here. If I don't pay off a home
equity loan, I lose the home.
> On the job front. Keep on them. Follow-up
> follow-up, most people don't.
I've followed up until I got an official rejection or until (with the
closest grocery store) they'd had three sets of jobs come and go without my
being able to even find out if my app was on file, thanks to the manager.
> Turn rejection into a learning experience,
> ask why in a nonconfrontational manner.
"No reason. We're certain you would be a valuable addition to our team.
We're just not going to hire you at this time."
Repeat ad infinitum (and ad nausaeum... I'm sick of hearing it).
> Go through the entire house and
> note all those things not needed.
> Sell!
Until the other witness to the will isn't "sick" every time I try to get
hold of him, I can't enter probate and get everything in my name.
> See unemployment not as
> punishment, but an opportunity.
. . .
Some opportunity.
> Learn something you've never had time to
> learn.
<sigh> Around here, all classes cost much money. I can't even get a First
Aid card for less than a $10 investment. And sadly, I've always been
interested in everything; I have book learning for every craft under the
sun, and no money for materials or equipment. (And nobody willing to hire
me for any position I have or haven't held before.) I'd like to learn art,
and maybe game design... but those cost lots of money.
> Try volunteer social work (feel good, occupies your time and can
> lead to a job oppertunity if you keep your ears open plus it makes it
> easier to answer the question "well what have you been doing the past few
> month").
<sigh> I've tried, and been rejected by Goodwill. Salvation Army doesn't
operate in Mesquite. Nobody knows where the soup kitchens are, and
Lighthouse for the Blind doesn't want me to read on their tapes. March of
Dimes might have a haunted house next month, if I can afford to drive out to
it. (It's in Arlington, on the other side of Dallas.) The other charitable
organizations make their fundraisers members-only.
> You're at the bottom. That means that it's uphill from there.
> Hang in their.
>
<gallows humor> If I could hang, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
</gh>
Honestly, I don't see any way out of this mess anytime soon. I can't even
sell plasma... they stopped using needles small enough for my veins.
Yours feeling like the world is against him,
The wolfish,
Wanderer
news:4137eb3e$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Yes. Unfortunately, with the other witness to the will always "sick" when I
try to reach him, and since Mother died before we could notarize the
affidavit to eliminate this problem, I have no legal ownership of anything
but this computer I'm using. (I bought it with what was left of my
inheritance from my paternal grandmother, after paying off the LAST time my
sister spent me into the poorhouse with that stupid Discover card, since my
friend Goliath attempted to upgrade my old one and broke the CD drive and
the sound card.)
Currently, I'm driving Mother's car, since that at least has insurance until
January, when her policy runs out. (It wouldn't, but I honestly [and
conveniently, as it turns out] forgot to tell the insurance company she was
dead until after they got paid for this quarter.) Of course, the DPS
sticker is expired, and I can't renew it without either proof of insurance
in my name or a statement from Mother authorizing me to do so. At least I
managed to get the inspection sticker renewed before she died...
(My sister's car has better gas mileage, but no insurance since she moved to
Germany with her family. And no, I'm not authorized to sell it... she wants
to trade it in when her husband's tour is over.)
In short, I'm up a certain oddly-named creek without a paddle in sight.
Yours headed for the waterfall,
The weary,
BR
> "BR" <brodr...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.09.03....@comcast.net...
>> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:29:07 -0500, Wanderer wrote:
>>
>> <Super-sized snip>
>>
>> Gee were to start? Were to start?
>> Well first you're not alone. Second I suggest you get out of that house
>> and get some aquantences (there are organizations for this). Staring at
>> four walls and a ceiling will drive you batty. Plus the networking and
>> social experience will do you some good.
>
> <sigh> I have a twice-weekly game group, of which two of the six
> members (counting me) are employed; one as a security guard, one at IBM,
> and neither is hiring. I go to church every week, and nobody's job is
> hiring.
> The grocery stores recognize me on sight, but the manager of the
> closest
> one isn't willing to access the computer to even see if my application
> registered. (The other two are both Kroger, where the home office... in
> another city... makes the decisions.) The librarians know me by name,
> but that doesn't seem to help me get the Library Aide job, which is the
> only one you don't need a Master's in Library Sciences to get. Most of
> my neighbors are retired. Those who aren't retired don't know of any
> openings.
Well your trying for the "network effect", a "friend of a friend". The
person you speak with may themsleves may not have a job for you, but they
may know someone else who may. The majority of jobs are found this way.
>> One the pension and insurance,
>> hammer them. Let them know you haven't forgotten.
>
> On the insurance, that's possible. On the pension, they're a
> long-distance call.
Maybe, but it doesn't look like you have too many options.
>> The house is fully paid
>> off. Can you say equity?
>
> Um, I don't have anyplace to live but here. If I don't pay off a home
> equity loan, I lose the home.
I know. This however should be seen as a last ditch effort. However as
someone suggested you can rent space out to tenants.
>> On the job front. Keep on them. Follow-up follow-up, most people don't.
>
> I've followed up until I got an official rejection or until (with the
> closest grocery store) they'd had three sets of jobs come and go without
> my being able to even find out if my app was on file, thanks to the
> manager.
Think like a salesman. They get to hear NO as often as you. Don't take it
personally. Handle it like a diplomat.
>> Turn rejection into a learning experience, ask why in a
>> nonconfrontational manner.
>
> "No reason. We're certain you would be a valuable addition to our team.
> We're just not going to hire you at this time."
>
> Repeat ad infinitum (and ad nausaeum... I'm sick of hearing it).
This is of course an excuse. I'm wondering if Texas is heavily ligatious?
Maybe they're afraid of being sued if they say something bad?
>> Go through the entire house and
>> note all those things not needed.
>> Sell!
>
> Until the other witness to the will isn't "sick" every time I try to get
> hold of him, I can't enter probate and get everything in my name.
>
>
Foot-dragging exercise? You may have to end up being an "ass" on this
issue.
>> See unemployment not as
>> punishment, but an opportunity.
>
> . . .
>
> Some opportunity.
>
>> Learn something you've never had time to learn.
>
> <sigh> Around here, all classes cost much money. I can't even get a
> First Aid card for less than a $10 investment. And sadly, I've always
> been interested in everything; I have book learning for every craft
> under the sun, and no money for materials or equipment. (And nobody
> willing to hire me for any position I have or haven't held before.) I'd
> like to learn art, and maybe game design... but those cost lots of
> money.
While a school may cost money? You can bring yourself up part of the way.
>> Try volunteer social work (feel good, occupies your time and can lead
>> to a job oppertunity if you keep your ears open plus it makes it easier
>> to answer the question "well what have you been doing the past few
>> month").
>
> <sigh> I've tried, and been rejected by Goodwill. Salvation Army
> doesn't operate in Mesquite. Nobody knows where the soup kitchens are,
> and Lighthouse for the Blind doesn't want me to read on their tapes.
> March of Dimes might have a haunted house next month, if I can afford to
> drive out to it. (It's in Arlington, on the other side of Dallas.) The
> other charitable organizations make their fundraisers members-only.
>
>
I can't imagine why? You have a perfect "typing" voice. :) Seriously
someone always needs help. There's always something to volunteer for. Try
a "teaching someone to read" program. And remember while the "payment"
isn't in cash. Good karma spends almost as well. You never know whom you
might impress.
>> You're at the bottom. That means that it's uphill from there. Hang in
>> their.
>>
>>
> <gallows humor> If I could hang, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
> </gh>
>
> Honestly, I don't see any way out of this mess anytime soon. I can't
> even sell plasma... they stopped using needles small enough for my
> veins.
If you can't think of any, ask. We're social creatures for a reason.
> Yours feeling like the world is against him,
>
> The wolfish,
>
> Wanderer
> wand...@ticnet.com
>
> "Where am I going? I don't quite know. What does it matter *where*
> people go? Down to the woods where the bluebells grow! Anywhere!
> Anywhere! *I* don't know!"
> -- a. a. milne
--
PlanetFur
> I have a card for the Mesquite Public Library, which has only what I've
> already described. Inter-library loans may only be used within the library.
> The library has no CD players. My only surviving portable has a faulty
> headphone jack and a faulty volume control that will only make noise at the
> higher settings.
>
> The library does not have what I want, and I cannot listen to other
> libraries' CDs in the library, nor take them home.
Funny, I sure can.
The only time you cannot borrow a Library's resources, even from
inter-library lending, is if it is a reference item, archival copy or
from the Library of Congress. Any librarians want to jump in here?
Have you *tried*, or are you assuming here? Go out today and ask for
those CDs you've been wanting. Make them get it for you, and see what
happens. What's the worst, that they blackmark you card?
> Nobody around here has it. All the people I know listen to C&W or
> alternative rock. Those who get rid of their stuff usually give it to
> family members (I have no remaining family in the D/FW area) or to a thrift
> store which resells it.
Have you asked here? On forums with like-minded people?
Your defeatist attitude is horrible. No wonder you think copyright
infringement is all right; no one's there to say no.
Silver Seams
> The only time you cannot borrow a Library's resources, even from
> inter-library lending, is if it is a reference item, archival copy or
> from the Library of Congress. Any librarians want to jump in here?
TWIAVBP, and library policies vary.
Our library requires a fee for books and CDs. The CD fee is rather hefty,
relatively speaking... too many rare CDs going walkies, and it's one
thing when you lose something out of your own collection, but when you
have to pay cash money to another library, it's worse.
Silver Seams
news:Xns95598CE1FA...@130.133.1.4:
> TWIAVBP, and library policies vary.
And Google took all of 0.24 seconds to find the Mesquite library's policy:
"Interlibrary Loan: Materials from the collection of other public,
academic, and special libraries throughout the nation which are not in
Mesquite Public Library's collection can be borrowed for you through
Interlibrary Loan. Requests take a minimum of 2-3 weeks to be filled,
although longer waits may be experienced for difficult to locate titles.
You pay only postage to return the book to the lending library or
photocopy charges for magazine articles. Generally this service is limited
to books and photocopies of magazine articles, but some audiovisual
materials can be borrowed."
Wanderer
> Wanderer wrote:
>
> > The library does not have what I want, and I cannot listen to other
> > libraries' CDs in the library, nor take them home.
>
> Funny, I sure can.
>
> The only time you cannot borrow a Library's resources, even from
> inter-library lending, is if it is a reference item, archival copy or
> from the Library of Congress. Any librarians want to jump in here?
>
> Have you *tried*, or are you assuming here? Go out today and ask for
> those CDs you've been wanting. Make them get it for you, and see what
> happens. What's the worst, that they blackmark you card?
The reason I'm aware of the limitation is because they slipped up once,
allowing me to check out an inter-library loan item (a book, as I recall).
They informed me at the earliest opportunity that I needed to return the
item, because (although it was a circulating title), it belonged to another
library, so they couldn't check it out to me.
>
> > Nobody around here has it. All the people I know listen to C&W or
> > alternative rock. Those who get rid of their stuff usually give it to
> > family members (I have no remaining family in the D/FW area) or to a
thrift
> > store which resells it.
>
> Have you asked here? On forums with like-minded people?
Why? As I stated before, I don't download very often at all... it's been
months since I did so. And why would I want to bother people?
>
> Your defeatist attitude is horrible. No wonder you think copyright
> infringement is all right; no one's there to say no.
. . .
Nobody's here at all. I'm all alone now. Nobody here but me and the two
pets I inherited from Mother because I'm the one who takes care of them.
Nobody calls or visits, and only a few people write.
The food stamps have been cancelled because I never showed up for the
appointment the receptionist told me I didn't have. I finally managed to
get a firm rejection from one more place I applied for work, as well as the
adult video store (which recently hired someone, but I couldn't apply
because I got the night clerk, and he didn't know anything about anybody
being hired).
Yes, I'm defeatist. It's appropriate for somebody who can't even enter the
battle because nobody wants him on their side.
Yours raising the white flag and getting shot out from under it,
Wanderer
news:Xns95598D6634...@130.133.1.4...
> begin Silver Seams <silve...@silverseams.com> quotation from
> news:Xns95598CE1FA...@130.133.1.4:
>
> > TWIAVBP, and library policies vary.
>
> And Google took all of 0.24 seconds to find the Mesquite library's policy:
>
> "Interlibrary Loan: Materials from the collection of other public,
> academic, and special libraries throughout the nation which are not in
> Mesquite Public Library's collection can be borrowed for you through
> Interlibrary Loan. Requests take a minimum of 2-3 weeks to be filled,
> although longer waits may be experienced for difficult to locate titles.
> You pay only postage to return the book to the lending library or
> photocopy charges for magazine articles. Generally this service is limited
> to books and photocopies of magazine articles, but some audiovisual
> materials can be borrowed."
>
And that's not what they do with me. <sigh> I'm not terribly surprised.
Yours wishing certain options were available to him,
The defeated,
Wanderer
> person you speak with may themsleves may not have a job for you, but they
> may know someone else who may. The majority of jobs are found this way.
None of my few jobs ever turned up that way at all.:/ People just don't
think of me if they have a job opening. Heck, people don't usually think of
me *at all*. The only person who ever *tried* to get me a job that way was
Mother, and she couldn't do it because the I.R.S. (where she worked) kept
changing the job requirements before I could get fully trained.
People just don't think of me when there's work available, BR. If I'm
particularly lucky, they think of me when they hear a bad joke, then
promptly forget me again.
> >> One the pension and insurance,
> >> hammer them. Let them know you haven't forgotten.
> >
> > On the insurance, that's possible. On the pension, they're a
> > long-distance call.
>
> Maybe, but it doesn't look like you have too many options.
You noticed.:/
>
>
> >> The house is fully paid
> >> off. Can you say equity?
> >
> > Um, I don't have anyplace to live but here. If I don't pay off a home
> > equity loan, I lose the home.
>
> I know. This however should be seen as a last ditch effort. However as
> someone suggested you can rent space out to tenants.
A nice option if I had ownership.:/ Mother did this with the house she
inherited from her parents, and still had to prove ownership before she was
alowed to rent it.
>
>
> >> On the job front. Keep on them. Follow-up follow-up, most people don't.
> >
> > I've followed up until I got an official rejection or until (with the
> > closest grocery store) they'd had three sets of jobs come and go without
> > my being able to even find out if my app was on file, thanks to the
> > manager.
>
> Think like a salesman. They get to hear NO as often as you. Don't take it
> personally. Handle it like a diplomat.
I'm *trying* not to take it personally, but it's getting *very hard not to*.
Interview followups that are promised and never materialize (assuming I get
to an interview, which has happened twice in the last year), appointments
that vanish from the receptionist's calendar and suddenly reappear after I
miss them... heck, I once had a company eliminate a position because *I* was
the best they could do! Even fast food and military options aren't
available to me, because neither one wants to touch me with a ten-foot
cattle prod! Heck, I can barely apply for food stamps (the source of the
"appointment" comment above) because nobody who can help me is available,
and the available people can't help me!
>
>
> >> Turn rejection into a learning experience, ask why in a
> >> nonconfrontational manner.
> >
> > "No reason. We're certain you would be a valuable addition to our team.
> > We're just not going to hire you at this time."
> >
> > Repeat ad infinitum (and ad nausaeum... I'm sick of hearing it).
>
> This is of course an excuse. I'm wondering if Texas is heavily ligatious?
> Maybe they're afraid of being sued if they say something bad?
According to my sister, that's the problem; if they say something that can
actually help me, I can sue them.:/ I've done everything but fall down on
my knees and beg, but the day someone tells me why I'm completely unhirable
as anything above and including a ditchdigger, it'll be a cold day on
Mercury.
>
>
> >> Go through the entire house and
> >> note all those things not needed.
> >> Sell!
> >
> > Until the other witness to the will isn't "sick" every time I try to get
> > hold of him, I can't enter probate and get everything in my name.
> >
> >
> Foot-dragging exercise? You may have to end up being an "ass" on this
> issue.
If I could talk to him, that'd be an option. As it stands, I'd be harassing
his girlfriend.
>
> >> See unemployment not as
> >> punishment, but an opportunity.
> >
> > . . .
> >
> > Some opportunity.
> >
> >> Learn something you've never had time to learn.
> >
> > <sigh> Around here, all classes cost much money. I can't even get a
> > First Aid card for less than a $10 investment. And sadly, I've always
> > been interested in everything; I have book learning for every craft
> > under the sun, and no money for materials or equipment. (And nobody
> > willing to hire me for any position I have or haven't held before.) I'd
> > like to learn art, and maybe game design... but those cost lots of
> > money.
>
> While a school may cost money? You can bring yourself up part of the way.
I've done all the book-learning I can on my own. I've read every book,
studied every possibility, and now I have no money for materials or outside
help.:/
>
>
> >> Try volunteer social work (feel good, occupies your time and can lead
> >> to a job oppertunity if you keep your ears open plus it makes it easier
> >> to answer the question "well what have you been doing the past few
> >> month").
> >
> > <sigh> I've tried, and been rejected by Goodwill. Salvation Army
> > doesn't operate in Mesquite. Nobody knows where the soup kitchens are,
> > and Lighthouse for the Blind doesn't want me to read on their tapes.
> > March of Dimes might have a haunted house next month, if I can afford to
> > drive out to it. (It's in Arlington, on the other side of Dallas.) The
> > other charitable organizations make their fundraisers members-only.
> >
> >
> I can't imagine why? You have a perfect "typing" voice. :)
<sigh> I met a blind man that same day, and he was astonished that they'd
turned me down. But they turned me down completely.
> Seriously
> someone always needs help. There's always something to volunteer for. Try
> a "teaching someone to read" program. And remember while the "payment"
> isn't in cash. Good karma spends almost as well. You never know whom you
> might impress.
If there are such programs around here, I can't find them. None of the
charities I *can* find want volunteers. You're beginning to see why I'm
having a hard time not taking this personally, yes? Places that are famed
for needing warm bodies are suddenly full up when I appear on the horizon...
>
> >> You're at the bottom. That means that it's uphill from there. Hang in
> >> their.
> >>
> >>
> > <gallows humor> If I could hang, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
> > </gh>
> >
> > Honestly, I don't see any way out of this mess anytime soon. I can't
> > even sell plasma... they stopped using needles small enough for my
> > veins.
>
>
> If you can't think of any, ask. We're social creatures for a reason.
>
I'm asking, but nobody's really in a position to help. I mean, you're
giving me good ideas and suggestions, but they're ideas and suggestions that
just don't seem to work around here. I'm not being allowed as a volunteer,
I can't get hired for menial labor or better, and I can't even sell my blood
products. Outside of becoming the ugliest prostitute on Greenville Avenue,
I really don't see too many other options besides continuing to beat my
skull in against the job "market".
I'm open to suggestions, folks, but I've been getting turned down for most
of my life on a lot of these... be prepared to hear a lot of, "I already
tried that" from someone who's been looking for work most of his life.
Yours feeling like a buggy whip in an auto parts store,
The unwanted, unneeded, undesirable, unhirable, and completely unmemorable,
Felyne32k
says...
> > hammer them. Let them know you haven't forgotten.
>
> On the insurance, that's possible. On the pension, they're a long-distance
> call.
>
enough, drop me an email; I have a spare phone-card code I can give you
some time on.
--
-Felyne32k, supposed "English Major"
BR
> People just don't think of me when there's work available, BR. If I'm
> particularly lucky, they think of me when they hear a bad joke, then
> promptly forget me again.
Not to pry, but why? If you want to carry this to E-Mail benrod AT
mcleodusa DOT net That's one of my addresses (SPAMMERS DIE!)
The Saprophyte
Wanderer wrote:
> "The Saprophyte" <NormD...@nolocale.com> wrote in message
> news:ch69db$pm2$1...@velox.critter.net...
>
>>Now see, this is how wolves get a bad reputation. Some down on his luck
>>omega has trouble chasing down deer on his own, so he decides it's
>>allright to download the occasional lamb over the fenceline. Hey, the
>>Farmer has plenty of other sheep, and the ewes will just make more,
>>So nobody's getting hurt, right?.
>>
>>Aren't they? Aren't they really?
>
>
> <small smile> Thanks. I needed that.
>
http://cubbi.org/disney/lyrics/wfrr/smile
>
>>Moving on...
>>
>>As was pointed out, there several free internet radio providers
>>featuring dozens of 80's stations. Winamp, real.com, netscape,
>>yahoo, and others. Each require their own software as a rule, but it's
>>free, and if you find a decent feed, you really only need to go with
>>one. The only real problems you might see are full servers and frequent
>>rebuffering. I had a not-bad one on today that had 80's alternative
>>stuff I'd never heard before. (I have the opposite problem from you.
>>I get mostly 80's and contemporary crap and damn little alternative.)
>
>
> Unfortunately, my dialup's very slow and staticky when it comes to music.
> Fine if you want to listen to four-second chunks between five-second pauses.
>
Same here with most. But...one occasionally runs into a rare stable one.
if never hurts to look. The one above averaged about one rebuffer per
song. That's halfway listenable. I've seen even better, but my
connection may be slightly faster. (56k at 45.2)
>
>> As for the internet, if ya gotta have it, you might want to see if
>>there's a Netzero server in your local call zone. It isn't free anymore,
>>but it's still about as cheap as you can get.
>
>
> I've got even cheaper, and it's paid up through next year. (The bill came
> due before Mother died.) No, if I can afford to keep the phone line open, I
> can have Internet until March.
>
Cheaper then 9.00 and change!?!
>
>>
(snip)
>>
>>Might I suggest adding Misc.consumers.frugal-living to your newsgroup
>>reading? Also perhaps Alt.dumpster. Lot of dumpster divers help keep
>>themselves afloat on their findings. They also can be very giving.
>
>
> <sigh> I hate myself already, between having every employer in Mesquite
> reject me (except the adult video store, where I can't find the manager to
> get rejected by him), having a mounting credit card debt, my father being in
> a hospital I have to drive half an hour to get to, my mother being dead, the
> other witness to the will being "sick" so I can't even enter probate, the
> food stamps have run out, and so on.
Sounds like you could possibly use some help from a financial manager.
I'm not quite ready for the degree of
> self-loathing I'll acquire if I start coaxing handouts from complete
> strangers, no. Give me another month.
>
That part was an after thought, really. Divers always seem to have extra
crap they can't use. That said, If you keep your eyes open and look
around, you might be able to pick up a few things, even stuff for
resale. I doubled my meager music collection last year with stuff my
neighbors chucked. I looked over the stuff I was debating selling.
probably nothing you'd want. Phil collins live, Neil diamond, sound
track from "Beaches", Lawrence welk...I haven't given most of it a
listen yet.
Didn't get much today. Just some random junk and some possibly sellable
paper ephemera.
>
>>This may also be of use for your acquisition problems:
>>
>>http://www.freecycle.org/
>
>
> <nod> I've joined the one for my area, and we'll see what happens.
>
Kind of a crap shoot from what I've heard, but you never know.
Free stuff is always good. :)
>
>>>Yours in a depression thanks to the recession,
>>>
>>
>>We need a suppression of all this aggression.
>>
>
>
> . . .
>
> Maybe later. Telling the whole newsgroup what a hopeless, worthless loser I
> am didn't help my mood.
>
> Yours sadly,
>
> The drooping,
>
> Wanderer
*Ppfftt*
You're a victim of circumstance, nothing more.
You haven't backed your self into a corner through your own actions or
inactions the way some people have. The only way you're remotely at
fault in all this is this little obsessive thing you've got going in
attempting to deal with it. (and believe me, I know from obsessive)
Focus on something different. In fact, back to money matters, I noticed
you write. Would you be comfortable taking on a commission on Furbid?
If nothing else, it'd give you something new to worry about.
Besides, if things do get worse, you do have one fall back alternative:
--
The Saprophyte
--
Wanderer
>
> Wanderer wrote:
>
> > <small smile> Thanks. I needed that.
> >
>
> http://cubbi.org/disney/lyrics/wfrr/smile
<laugh> Touche!:)
> > Unfortunately, my dialup's very slow and staticky when it comes to
music.
> > Fine if you want to listen to four-second chunks between five-second
pauses.
> >
>
> Same here with most. But...one occasionally runs into a rare stable one.
> if never hurts to look. The one above averaged about one rebuffer per
> song. That's halfway listenable. I've seen even better, but my
> connection may be slightly faster. (56k at 45.2)
I'll give it a listen and see.:)
>
> >
> >> As for the internet, if ya gotta have it, you might want to see if
> >>there's a Netzero server in your local call zone. It isn't free anymore,
> >>but it's still about as cheap as you can get.
> >
> >
> > I've got even cheaper, and it's paid up through next year. (The bill
came
> > due before Mother died.) No, if I can afford to keep the phone line
open, I
> > can have Internet until March.
> >
>
> Cheaper then 9.00 and change!?!
Yep. While it's annoying in some regards, buying a year's worth of Internet
at a time gets me a discount, bringing my per-month cost on TICnet down
below the $9 line. Of course, the mailserver needs upgrading, but for that
price...
> > <sigh> I hate myself already, between having every employer in Mesquite
> > reject me (except the adult video store, where I can't find the manager
to
> > get rejected by him), having a mounting credit card debt, my father
being in
> > a hospital I have to drive half an hour to get to, my mother being dead,
the
> > other witness to the will being "sick" so I can't even enter probate,
the
> > food stamps have run out, and so on.
>
> Sounds like you could possibly use some help from a financial manager.
You know one that's free?:>
>
> I'm not quite ready for the degree of
> > self-loathing I'll acquire if I start coaxing handouts from complete
> > strangers, no. Give me another month.
> >
>
> That part was an after thought, really. Divers always seem to have extra
> crap they can't use. That said, If you keep your eyes open and look
> around, you might be able to pick up a few things, even stuff for
> resale. I doubled my meager music collection last year with stuff my
> neighbors chucked. I looked over the stuff I was debating selling.
> probably nothing you'd want. Phil collins live, Neil diamond, sound
> track from "Beaches", Lawrence welk...I haven't given most of it a
> listen yet.
<chuckle> The whole family listens to "Cousin Phil".:> (We call him that
because he was *always* on the radio down here for *years*. Not so much
now, mind you.)
> Didn't get much today. Just some random junk and some possibly sellable
> paper ephemera.
>
> >
> >>This may also be of use for your acquisition problems:
> >>
> >>http://www.freecycle.org/
> >
> >
> > <nod> I've joined the one for my area, and we'll see what happens.
> >
>
> Kind of a crap shoot from what I've heard, but you never know.
> Free stuff is always good. :)
From the looks of things, you're not kidding about the "crap shoot".
>
>
> >
> >>>Yours in a depression thanks to the recession,
> >>>
> >>
> >>We need a suppression of all this aggression.
> >>
> >
> >
> > . . .
> >
> > Maybe later. Telling the whole newsgroup what a hopeless, worthless
loser I
> > am didn't help my mood.
> >
> > Yours sadly,
> >
> > The drooping,
> >
> > Wanderer
>
> *Ppfftt*
>
> You're a victim of circumstance, nothing more.
>
> You haven't backed your self into a corner through your own actions or
> inactions the way some people have. The only way you're remotely at
> fault in all this is this little obsessive thing you've got going in
> attempting to deal with it. (and believe me, I know from obsessive)
> Focus on something different. In fact, back to money matters, I noticed
> you write. Would you be comfortable taking on a commission on Furbid?
> If nothing else, it'd give you something new to worry about.
<nod> I admit, I'd been contemplating it. You know, throw in a link to
some of my work over at the Transformation Story Archive and all...
>
>
> Besides, if things do get worse, you do have one fall back alternative:
>
>
> http://www.wolfsanctuary.net/
>
<facepaw>
You...
<looks up> Now THAT... was funny.:>
Yours wolfishly,
The laughing,
The Saprophyte
Wanderer wrote:
> "The Saprophyte" <NormD...@nolocale.com> wrote in message
> news:chbo7q$ql1$1...@velox.critter.net...
>
>>Wanderer wrote:
>>
>>
>>><small smile> Thanks. I needed that.
>>>
>>
>>http://cubbi.org/disney/lyrics/wfrr/smile
>
>
> <laugh> Touche!:)
>
S' right. You gotta learn to talk that sig of yours more seriously.
>
>>>Unfortunately, my dialup's very slow and staticky when it comes to
>
> music.
>
>>>Fine if you want to listen to four-second chunks between five-second
>
> pauses.
>
>>Same here with most. But...one occasionally runs into a rare stable one.
>>if never hurts to look. The one above averaged about one rebuffer per
>>song. That's halfway listenable. I've seen even better, but my
>>connection may be slightly faster. (56k at 45.2)
>
>
> I'll give it a listen and see.:)
>
I hate to say I told you so, but... ;)
>
>>>> As for the internet, if ya gotta have it, you might want to see if
>>>>there's a Netzero server in your local call zone. It isn't free anymore,
>>>>but it's still about as cheap as you can get.
>>>
>>>
>>>I've got even cheaper, and it's paid up through next year. (The bill
>
> came
>
>>>due before Mother died.) No, if I can afford to keep the phone line
>
> open, I
>
>>>can have Internet until March.
>>>
>>
>>Cheaper then 9.00 and change!?!
>
>
> Yep. While it's annoying in some regards, buying a year's worth of Internet
> at a time gets me a discount, bringing my per-month cost on TICnet down
> below the $9 line. Of course, the mailserver needs upgrading, but for that
> price...
>
TICnet?
*Sigh* only in texas...
>
>>><sigh> I hate myself already, between having every employer in Mesquite
>>>reject me (except the adult video store, where I can't find the manager
>
> to
>
>>>get rejected by him), having a mounting credit card debt, my father
>
> being in
>
>>>a hospital I have to drive half an hour to get to, my mother being dead,
>
> the
>
>>>other witness to the will being "sick" so I can't even enter probate,
>
> the
>
>>>food stamps have run out, and so on.
>>
>>Sounds like you could possibly use some help from a financial manager.
>
>
> You know one that's free?:>
>
Yeah, they don't mention that in the ads, do they?
Oh well, there are always other avenues to explore monetarily.
Are you healthy? Kidneys and liver good?
>>I'm not quite ready for the degree of
>>
>>>self-loathing I'll acquire if I start coaxing handouts from complete
>>>strangers, no. Give me another month.
>>>
>>
>>That part was an after thought, really. Divers always seem to have extra
>>crap they can't use. That said, If you keep your eyes open and look
>>around, you might be able to pick up a few things, even stuff for
>>resale. I doubled my meager music collection last year with stuff my
>>neighbors chucked. I looked over the stuff I was debating selling.
>>probably nothing you'd want. Phil collins live, Neil diamond, sound
>>track from "Beaches", Lawrence welk...I haven't given most of it a
>>listen yet.
>
>
> <chuckle> The whole family listens to "Cousin Phil".:> (We call him that
> because he was *always* on the radio down here for *years*. Not so much
> now, mind you.)
>
>
Well, if it's any thing you really want badly, let be know. I've changed
my mind about one of them, though. I'm keeping the Lawrence Welk.*
>>Didn't get much today. Just some random junk and some possibly sellable
>>paper ephemera.
>>
>>
>>>>This may also be of use for your acquisition problems:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.freecycle.org/
>>>
>>>
>>><nod> I've joined the one for my area, and we'll see what happens.
>>>
>>
>>Kind of a crap shoot from what I've heard, but you never know.
>>Free stuff is always good. :)
>
>
> From the looks of things, you're not kidding about the "crap shoot".
>
Eh, it was worth a shot. I had heard complaints about the high "want"
to "have" ratio.
>>
>>>>>Yours in a depression thanks to the recession,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>We need a suppression of all this aggression.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>. . .
>>>
>>>Maybe later. Telling the whole newsgroup what a hopeless, worthless
>
> loser I
>
>>>am didn't help my mood.
>>>
>>>Yours sadly,
>>>
>>>The drooping,
>>>
>>>Wanderer
>>
>>*Ppfftt*
>>
>> You're a victim of circumstance, nothing more.
>>
>> You haven't backed your self into a corner through your own actions or
>>inactions the way some people have. The only way you're remotely at
>>fault in all this is this little obsessive thing you've got going in
>>attempting to deal with it. (and believe me, I know from obsessive)
>>Focus on something different. In fact, back to money matters, I noticed
>>you write. Would you be comfortable taking on a commission on Furbid?
>>If nothing else, it'd give you something new to worry about.
>
>
> <nod> I admit, I'd been contemplating it. You know, throw in a link to
> some of my work over at the Transformation Story Archive and all...
>
It was a thought. Too bad you did get more bids. Makes me look bad.
Nice to see things are going better for you now.
>
>>
>>Besides, if things do get worse, you do have one fall back alternative:
>>
>>
>> http://www.wolfsanctuary.net/
>>
>
>
> <facepaw>
>
> You...
>
> <looks up> Now THAT... was funny.:>
What, and I'm not usually? *Pouts*
>
> Yours wolfishly,
>
> The laughing,
>
> Wanderer
> wand...@ticnet.com
>
> "Where am I going? I don't quite know.
> What does it matter *where* people go?
> Down to the woods where the bluebells grow!
> Anywhere! Anywhere! *I* don't know!"
> -- a. a. milne
>
>
*(it's for my mother, honest)
--
The Saprophyte
--
Wanderer
>
> S' right. You gotta learn to talk that sig of yours more seriously.
>
<raised eyebrow> I'm someone who's had almost a job a year. Wandering is
something I do too often already!:> or are you interpreting the Milne quote
differently?
> I hate to say I told you so, but... ;)
Well, you did.:>
> TICnet?
>
> *Sigh* only in texas...
<chuckle> Short for "The Internet Connection".:> Bought out by Waymark the
year after I joined, of course.
> Yeah, they don't mention that in the ads, do they?
> Oh well, there are always other avenues to explore monetarily.
> Are you healthy? Kidneys and liver good?
Yes, but I'd prefer not to donate for money.:/
> Well, if it's any thing you really want badly, let be know. I've changed
> my mind about one of them, though. I'm keeping the Lawrence Welk.*
Anna one, anna two...
> Eh, it was worth a shot. I had heard complaints about the high "want"
> to "have" ratio.
Actually, FreeCycle has been good to me so far. I finally managed to
replace the choke lead the dog chewed up... with a chain version.:> I think
this one's safe for a while...
> It was a thought. Too bad you did get more bids. Makes me look bad.
> Nice to see things are going better for you now.
<chuckle> Slight delay getting the money sent... PayPal doesn't tell you
even half of the fees until you actually receive a payment. Currently
attempting MoneyGram.
> > <facepaw>
> >
> > You...
> >
> > <looks up> Now THAT... was funny.:>
>
>
> What, and I'm not usually? *Pouts*
I mean above the usual high-water-mark.:) When you can break through one of
*my* depressions with a joke... now THAT'S a JOKE!
Yours wolfishly,
The smiling, re-employed,