Was FAASA a hoax?
Richard de Wylfin
Someone posting anonymously to the Burned Fur forum has alleged
that FAASA was actually Daphne Lage! Is that true?
--
You can now order alt.possessive.its.has.no.apostrophe shirts online:
http://www.bloomington.in.us/~dwylfin/possessiveits/index.html
Paul R. Bennett
please review the last year. Please review the fault finding and
finger pointing that has gone on and on just on suspicion alone.
No one has profitted and people have been hurt. There has been a
lot of anger, animosity, acusations, name calling, and ill-will
generated publicly and an almost constant series of flamewars have
grown out of it. It has cost the fandom a lot. It's over, it is
done with, I gather the web page is gone. Please do not make
things any worse. Let it be for once, while there is something
left.
Couple of other things I have been wanting to say(needn't anybody
duck, no low flyin' flames comin... just a bit of philosophy to
ponder). I call myself Ex-Furry... But! Being Ex-Furry is not
the same as anti-furry, handy as the label may be. We are dealing
with people, individuals, each different. We are dealing with
people. They do not become less individuals with views and
feelings of their own just because they may not view things the
same or may not follow the same path. Remember, that we are all
of us still dealing with other individuals.
Paul
(Ex-furry, still interested in arts anthro, and not regarding
people as enemies just because they are Furry, or that Furry is
inherently evil)
zoomer
On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 0:46:15 +0000, Richard de Wylfin wrote (in message
<thetalkingfox-2...@1cust196.tnt20.chi5.da.uu.net>):
>
> Wouldn't suprise me at all.
>
> Someone posting anonymously to the Burned Fur forum has alleged that FAASA
> was actually Daphne Lage! Is that true?
>
>
ya know, i shouldn't be saying anything here lest i get labled a 'troll' but
there's that 'burned fur' reference again. this might escalate. so we all
gain equal partisanship to the fandom, can some kindly fur please explain the
'burned fur' reference. i know i am curious... genuinely.
zoomer, the other coyote
Cerulean
>Wouldn't suprise me at all.
Who cares?
>Someone posting anonymously to the Burned Fur forum has alleged
>that FAASA was actually Daphne Lage! Is that true?
Someone posting anonymously to the Burned Fur forum thinks they can
create a ludicrous rumour just by posting it anyonymously to the
Burned Fur forum and waiting for someone to bring it here and ask if
it's true! Is that true?
--
___vvz /( Cerulean = Kevin Pease http://cerulean.st/
<__,` Z / ( DC2.~D GmAL~W-R+++Ac~J+S+Fr++IH$M-V+++Cbl,spu
`~~~) )Z) ( FDDmp4adwsA+++$C+D+HM+P-RT+++WZSm#
/ (7 ( ,,'umo+ s!y+ u! sa6e^es jo y)unq,,
Emi Melissa Briet
> there's that 'burned fur' reference again. this might escalate. so we all
> gain equal partisanship to the fandom, can some kindly fur please explain the
> 'burned fur' reference. i know i am curious... genuinely.
Burned Fur is a group that wants sexuality seperated from the fandom
(which is different from putting an end to spooge, which is what many
believe they stand for, and those many would be wrong)
I actually have a friend of mine who was told by CF 9 con-goers that he
didnt belong there because he's straight....it's that kind of BS that
Burned Fur is against.
--Emi
--
Emi Briet -- Ameritech.net's kawaii techie-chan! ^_^
Keep your ear to the radio, and keep hot water with you at all times!
RanmaCode[1.3]: r+(+) R!++ AG HS X++ SP Du+ m+ mu++ E:#antijen H F:+
a27 d+ s-: NA x Sch:CS,BA L:E ma+ M w++ N,IE
Randall Kramm
Emi Melissa Briet wrote:
> > ya know, i shouldn't be saying anything here lest i get labled a 'troll' but
> > there's that 'burned fur' reference again. this might escalate. so we all
> > gain equal partisanship to the fandom, can some kindly fur please explain the
> > 'burned fur' reference. i know i am curious... genuinely.
>
> Burned Fur is a group that wants sexuality seperated from the fandom
> (which is different from putting an end to spooge, which is what many
> believe they stand for, and those many would be wrong)
>
> I actually have a friend of mine who was told by CF 9 con-goers that he
> didnt belong there because he's straight....it's that kind of BS that
> Burned Fur is against.
Odly enough, a friend of mine who quit them said each one has different
agendas but the common thread of the most outspoken members was a
love of arguing, he said. The first I can believe, as it's human nature for
everyone to want what they want, the second, well, I don't know, as I
haven't met or talked to too many of them, though I have read the manifesto
and it was quite...confrontational, to use a nice word. I, myself, am into
a mystic-type religion which, according to the manifesto, has no place in
fur, either..not tying it into fur, just being part of it, from the way it reads.
If you don't believe me, go read it yourself.
Richard de Wylfin
in particular I have to apologize to Ms. Lage. It's clear that nobody
ever gave two poots about FAASA. I am sorry for not keeping it that
way. In fact I'm sorry I read the Burned Fur forum at all. It is a
complete waste of time.
In article <38165F97...@alltel.net>, "Paul R. Bennett"
<rf...@alltel.net> wrote:
> I have got to comment. Do we really need this now? Please,
> please review the last year. Please review the fault finding and
> finger pointing that has gone on and on just on suspicion alone.
> No one has profitted and people have been hurt. There has been a
> lot of anger, animosity, acusations, name calling, and ill-will
> generated publicly and an almost constant series of flamewars have
> grown out of it. It has cost the fandom a lot. It's over, it is
> done with, I gather the web page is gone. Please do not make
> things any worse. Let it be for once, while there is something
> left.
>
> Couple of other things I have been wanting to say(needn't anybody
> duck, no low flyin' flames comin... just a bit of philosophy to
> ponder). I call myself Ex-Furry... But! Being Ex-Furry is not
> the same as anti-furry, handy as the label may be. We are dealing
> with people, individuals, each different. We are dealing with
> people. They do not become less individuals with views and
> feelings of their own just because they may not view things the
> same or may not follow the same path. Remember, that we are all
> of us still dealing with other individuals.
A sentiment I wholeheartedly endorse.
> Paul
> (Ex-furry, still interested in arts anthro, and not regarding
> people as enemies just because they are Furry, or that Furry is
> inherently evil)
> Richard de Wylfin wrote:
> >
> > Wouldn't suprise me at all.
> >
> > Someone posting anonymously to the Burned Fur forum has alleged
> > that FAASA was actually Daphne Lage! Is that true?
> >
Bahumat
> there's that 'burned fur' reference again. this might escalate. so we all
> gain equal partisanship to the fandom, can some kindly fur please explain the
> 'burned fur' reference. i know i am curious... genuinely.
I think the best place to get that info would be straight from the
horse's... mouth, so to speak.
http://members.tripod.com/~burnedfur/
The Manifesto: http://members.tripod.com/~burnedfur/bf_manif.html
Bahumat
--
In waking state, I dream; -- but in dreaming, I AWAKEN! -- Bahumat
"Rhetoric may be empty or loaded. However, unlike a firearm, it's when
it's empty that it's at it's most dangerous." -- Doug Winger
Farlo
>I actually have a friend of mine who was told by CF 9 con-goers that he
>didnt belong there because he's straight....it's that kind of BS that
>Burned Fur is against.
I was at CF9. Who was told, when and where at CF9, and by whom?
This rumormongering offends me.
Last time this rumor was spread, it was in reference to a FURMEET and not
CONFURENCE 9. That is the previous incarnation of this utter drivel.
--
Farlo
Urban fey dragon
"Worship my magic space monkey or he'll napalm you."
"Yes, my e-mail address is valid. It just doesn't look valid."
Emi Melissa Briet
Karr@FurryMUCK (not to be confused with K.A.R.R.@Furry)
Farlo
>> I was at CF9. Who was told
>
>Karr@FurryMUCK (not to be confused with K.A.R.R.@Furry)
It would have been better to say nothing at all than to provide such
paltry, grudging information as a furrymuck identity.
I asked for specific information.
Since I don't know you, I will just accept at face value that
your "friend" was told yet the latest incarnation of a baseless
homophobic rumor and leave it at that.
I am sorry to have expected anything more.
Emi Melissa Briet
> your "friend" was told yet the latest incarnation of a baseless
> homophobic rumor and leave it at that.
I wasn't there....I can't prove it, ok?....jeez...
--Emi
J.M.L.
: Emi Melissa Briet wrote:
: >I actually have a friend of mine who was told by CF 9 con-goers that he
: >didnt belong there because he's straight....it's that kind of BS that
: >Burned Fur is against.
: I was at CF9. Who was told, when and where at CF9, and by whom?
: This rumormongering offends me.
: Last time this rumor was spread, it was in reference to a FURMEET and not
: CONFURENCE 9. That is the previous incarnation of this utter drivel.
You didn't witness it personally. So of course, it never happened,
ergo he's a rumor monger because you're omnicient.
Yes, and I was at CF9 too. Didn't see me? Well, I was there anyway.
--
-- "Happiness is a deaf wolf".
http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch/hal/HAL/Talk.phtml
J.M.L.
: > Since I don't know you, I will just accept at face value that
: > your "friend" was told yet the latest incarnation of a baseless
: > homophobic rumor and leave it at that.
: I wasn't there....I can't prove it, ok?....jeez...
You must remember that anything recounted or remembered that doesn't
sit well with Farlo is automatically rumor, conjecture or utter falsehood.
I think that's a rule here somewhere.
David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
>Farlo (spam...@pacbell.net) wrote:
>: Emi Melissa Briet wrote:
>
>: >I actually have a friend of mine who was told by CF 9 con-goers that he
>: >didnt belong there because he's straight....it's that kind of BS that
>: >Burned Fur is against.
>
>: I was at CF9. Who was told, when and where at CF9, and by whom?
>: This rumormongering offends me.
>
>: Last time this rumor was spread, it was in reference to a FURMEET and not
>: CONFURENCE 9. That is the previous incarnation of this utter drivel.
>
> You didn't witness it personally. So of course, it never happened,
>ergo he's a rumor monger because you're omnicient.
Well who is Emi's freand. I mean I could say "My frend was told by a
gang of BF(*) lead by Dr Cat that unless he sticks banana in his
ears he didn't belong in the fandom." you see unless the stament is
back by something we can verify its not worth much in the arugment.
What we need is facts not rumour. Unless we know who said it to who and in
what context its useless to us.
(*) BF = Banana Furs.
--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://www.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
diespa...@best.com
: What we need is facts not rumour. Unless we know who said it to who and in
: what context its useless to us.
Us == you + the mouse in your pocket?
*DG*
(J.M.L.) wrote:
>Farlo (spam...@pacbell.net) wrote:
>: Emi Melissa Briet wrote:
>
>: >I actually have a friend of mine who was told by CF 9 con-goers that he
>: >didnt belong there because he's straight....it's that kind of BS that
>: >Burned Fur is against.
>
>: I was at CF9. Who was told, when and where at CF9, and by whom?
>: This rumormongering offends me.
>
>: Last time this rumor was spread, it was in reference to a FURMEET and not
>: CONFURENCE 9. That is the previous incarnation of this utter drivel.
>
> You didn't witness it personally. So of course, it never happened,
>ergo he's a rumor monger because you're omnicient.
It HAPPENED TO ME!!!!!!!!!! In person, not second hand.........
I was really offended.
Doug
observ...@yahoo.com A#344
As private parts to the gods are we!
They play with us for their sport!
=Lord Melchitt=
*DG*
the Platypus)) wrote:
>Well who is Emi's freand. I mean I could say "My frend was told by a
>gang of BF(*) lead by Dr Cat that unless he sticks banana in his
>ears he didn't belong in the fandom."
I am, It happened to me, actually one of the reasons I joined BF in
the first place....
And Before everyone starts on how big a hate monger I am, I rent
halg my house to two gay furry lifestylers...... I wa not hate
motivated when I said this, just very frustrated.........
>What we need is facts not rumour. Unless we know who said it to who and in
>what context its useless to us.
Ask away if you want.............
Dr. Cat
: I am, It happened to me, actually one of the reasons I joined BF in
: the first place....
So did you ever tell that specific guy "You shouldn't say that about furry
fandom and here's why", or did you decide to only address the problem via
various indirect methods?
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
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*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
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*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: Just asking.)
David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
>On 1 Nov 1999 12:37:54 GMT, dfor...@zeta.org.au (David Formosa (aka ?
>the Platypus)) wrote:
>>Well who is Emi's freand. I mean I could say "My frend was told by a
>>gang of BF(*) lead by Dr Cat that unless he sticks banana in his
>>ears he didn't belong in the fandom."
>
> I am, It happened to me, actually one of the reasons I joined BF in
>the first place....
Now we have first person everdence, its no longer a rumour and now a
fact. This is far more usefull to solving our problems.
[...]
>>What we need is facts not rumour. Unless we know who said it to who and in
>>what context its useless to us.
>
> Ask away if you want.............
Ok what context was it said in? By who was it said? Why do you think
they said it? What was your responce?
Farlo
>Now we have first person everdence, its no longer a rumour and now a
>fact. This is far more usefull to solving our problems.
You have a claim by a poster with a truly anonymous e-mail handle.
It is a fact that this person is claiming the situation occured.
It is NOT necessarily a fact that the incident occured.
I'm killfiling this whole thread. Chicken Little impresses me not.
*DG*
>*DG* (observ...@yahoo.com) wrote:
>: I am, It happened to me, actually one of the reasons I joined BF in
>: the first place....
>
>So did you ever tell that specific guy "You shouldn't say that about furry
>fandom and here's why", or did you decide to only address the problem via
>various indirect methods?
I shrugged it off...... There are assholes everywhere..... Most of
the people I met at the con were decent folks, at CF 9, I even got
along with Blumrich..............
Its just not the first time I've got this little jem directed at
me........
The only reason I said anything NOW is simply because I didn't want
to see Emi called a liar...... Emi is a very nice person, and she
shouldn't take flak on my account. She hasn't got a mean bone in her
body.
People want to call me names, I really don't care anymore, I'm just
sick of all this bullshit. I didn't want to see an innocent take flak
on my account...................
Doug
observ...@yahoo.com A#344
===================================
People who want to share their
religious views with you almost
never want you to share yours
with them.
*Dave Barry*
*DG*
the Platypus)) wrote:
>Now we have first person everdence, its no longer a rumour and now a
>fact. This is far more usefull to solving our problems.
>> Ask away if you want.............
>
>Ok what context was it said in? By who was it said? Why do you think
>they said it? What was your responce?
Hell, it was a couple of years ago. I was in the classic hallway
bullshit session with some guys, somebody made a comment about
straights, and I said Well, I guess I'm in trouble then, I'm
straight..... He looked at me, somewhat puzzled, and said, "If you
are straight, what are you doing at a Furrycon?" And No, he wasn't
kidding , He seemed politely curious.......
I told him there were a lot of straights at furrycons..........
Nobody got upset, he was rather non-commitial after that, Gave me a
rather odd look, as if I had said there were a lot of flemmish
glassblowers at furrycons..... I didn't feel like pressing the
point, so I went of, walked off my funk, and spent some bucks in the
dealers room....... NO hassle, just rather annoying "at the time".
A similar thing happened to me at the Duckon before last.... again,
no big deal, no scenes, no violent rections..... Actually, the two
guys who I got in THAT discussion with, after some initial definitions
we got along pretty well.... We stood around in the hallway and
bullshitted, I told some jokes, I remember it pretty well because the
one guy would laugh and grab his side.... Seems he had broken a rib at
some point before the con, and although I was really making him laugh
I was seriously hurting his rib. : ]
It simply started my mind to wandering.........
"I got a Nasty snub from another group at CF 9 too, but that is not
at issue here"
Anyway, thats all there is to it, no flames, no grinding axes...
The reason it keeps sticking with me was the way they seemed suprised
by the whole thing.....
I'm sorry I haven't got any names, but frankly it never occured to
me.... I've been a furry-fan for 14 years, but I'm not social, I
don't circulate, I seldom muck, I don't draw anything I show to
anyone, I tend to simply sit quietly at room parties..... The only
fans I could name by sight are a few old and well established
artists.... I hope this helps.
*DG*
>You have a claim by a poster with a truly anonymous e-mail handle.
>It is a fact that this person is claiming the situation occured.
>It is NOT necessarily a fact that the incident occured.
>
>I'm killfiling this whole thread. Chicken Little impresses me not.
Then you must not be very impressed with yourself.
I've been around in fandom a long time, and I take strong exeption
to the idea that I don't exist.
Douglas Graen
Phone number available at "polite" request.
I am an actual person......
I can be vouched for by
Reed Waller
Kate Worley
Ken Fletcher
Josh Quagmire "I think"
Tim Fay "although nothing nice"
Jim and Rebecka Groat
GothTiger
Nrasser and Rakkar "Scott and Paul"
Mike and Carol Curtiss know me.... I gave them back the cover art for
Shanda 5
Steve Addlsee "Shanda inker" I put him up in MPLS at Convergence...
Some character references.
I've made no violent claims, no slanderous claims, and I have
remained polite........... You simply don't want to hear anything
you find inconvenient.
I promised I would never post here again till I could keep a civil
tounge in my head. I am doing so.......
The fact that you simply put your fingers in your ears, instead of
asking for my freely available info suggests that you don't want the
issue clouded with facts.
Sorry, its a Hard old world. : [
Michael Campbell
>
>>You have a claim by a poster with a truly anonymous e-mail handle.
>>It is a fact that this person is claiming the situation occured.
>>It is NOT necessarily a fact that the incident occured.
>>
>>I'm killfiling this whole thread. Chicken Little impresses me not.
>
> Then you must not be very impressed with yourself.
>
> I've been around in fandom a long time, and I take strong exeption
>to the idea that I don't exist.
>
> Douglas Graen
>
> obse...@cpinternet.com
>
> Phone number available at "polite" request.
>
> I am an actual person......
>
> I can be vouched for by
>
> GothTiger
I indeed had the pleasure of meeting this individual ar this year's Minicon. He
was sharp, intelligent, and cares more abouyt this fandom than any dozen so-
called 'furries' who seem to be here for little more than cheap sex. He's also
the source of the classic line "Yiff? No, I have a REAL sex life!"
Mike "GothTiger" Campbell
(micha...@hotmail.com)
Dr. Cat
: Hell, it was a couple of years ago. I was in the classic hallway
: bullshit session with some guys, somebody made a comment about
: straights, and I said Well, I guess I'm in trouble then, I'm
: straight..... He looked at me, somewhat puzzled, and said, "If you
: are straight, what are you doing at a Furrycon?" And No, he wasn't
: kidding , He seemed politely curious.......
: I told him there were a lot of straights at furrycons..........
: Nobody got upset, he was rather non-commitial after that, Gave me a
: rather odd look, as if I had said there were a lot of flemmish
: glassblowers at furrycons..... I didn't feel like pressing the
: point, so I went of, walked off my funk, and spent some bucks in the
: dealers room....... NO hassle, just rather annoying "at the time".
I can understand preferring that things like that wouldn't happen. But
I'm curious why anyone would be strongly bothered by it, rather than
mildly bothered. In one earlier post you said you "shrugged it off", but
in another you said it was one of the reasons you joined a reform
movement in the fandom - which doesn't sound like totally "shrugging it
off" to me.
I've heard people spreading stereotypes about much more pushy militant
gay people, who actively tell heterosexuals they should be gay/bi or else
leave, try to make them feel unwelcome, etc. Whether such people actually
exist or not, this guy doesn't sound pushy, just remarkably naive, a
little inquisitive, and way too caught up in his wishful thinking of
"Everyone in my new hobby is just exactly like me!"
While I'd be very surprised at meeting someone so naive that they could
fool themselves into believing such a thing in a society where it's
estimated that only 10% of people are gay... I'd be much more likely to
feel pity for him than anger or "funk" or whatever. Why does the fact
that some guy I met is amazingly clueless have to mess up my day in any
way, if he was polite and not being pushy about it?
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: I don't know what percentage of people are estimated to be
bisexual. Our culture has a distressing tendency to want to divide
people into just two categories, straight and gay, when there's clearly
at least three (and maybe more, depending on what you're willing to count
as an orientation.))
David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
>On 7 Nov 1999 07:56:40 GMT, dfor...@zeta.org.au (David Formosa (aka ?
>the Platypus)) wrote:
[...]
>>Ok what context was it said in? By who was it said? Why do you think
>>they said it? What was your responce?
>
> Hell, it was a couple of years ago. I was in the classic hallway
>bullshit session with some guys, somebody made a comment about
>straights, and I said Well, I guess I'm in trouble then, I'm
>straight..... He looked at me, somewhat puzzled, and said, "If you
>are straight, what are you doing at a Furrycon?" And No, he wasn't
>kidding , He seemed politely curious.......
So in otherwords the result of foolishness and missinfomation. The
way it was presented to us at the start was that the stament was in a
hostile mannor. The clueless are all around us, I don't think that
the presence of the clueless is something that we should get upset
about.
If anyone wishes to start a campain against base stupidity, then I
would support it.
David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
>On 6 Nov 99 07:27:02 GMT, c...@bga.com (Dr. Cat) wrote:
>
>>*DG* (observ...@yahoo.com) wrote:
>>: I am, It happened to me, actually one of the reasons I joined BF in
>>: the first place....
>>
>>So did you ever tell that specific guy "You shouldn't say that about furry
>>fandom and here's why", or did you decide to only address the problem via
>>various indirect methods?
>
> I shrugged it off...... There are assholes everywhere.....
Hold on, you said it was the reson that you joined BF? How did you
think BF would solve this problems?
[...]
> The only reason I said anything NOW is simply because I didn't want
>to see Emi called a liar.
I didn't call her a liar, I said that her staments where second hand
and close to being a rumor. You have played cats wispers, you know
how much a story gets distorted in the retelling.
Cybskunk
>: >didnt belong there because he's straight....it's that kind of BS that
>: >Burned Fur is against.
>
>I was really offended.
>
> Doug
>observ...@yahoo.com A#344
So you're the guy it really happened to. I'd heard it as a "furban legend" and
thought it was more likely to have happened at CF8 (the peak of the Spandex
Commando invasions, where the word was out that "anything goes"). I, too, have
not felt welcome at CF (and sometimes in the fandom in general) for being
straight, though nobody actually came up to me and said it.
Cybskunk
>little inquisitive, and way too caught up in his wishful thinking of
>"Everyone in my new hobby is just exactly like me!"
>
>While I'd be very surprised at meeting someone so naive that they could
>fool themselves into believing such a thing in a society where it's
>estimated that only 10% of people are gay...
I've heard the actual figure is more like 2-3%; the 10% was the highest of a
wide range of figures, so naturally it was the one glommed on by activists in
an attempt to maximize their clout.