Alstonitis
-mouse-(Robert Haynie)
and some have breasts that are concievable. Me, I don't draw that particular
type because I learned a bit about anatomy-- large, perhaps, but not
inconcievably large.
Oh, well, each to their own tastes. After all, we're talking
about ANIMALS here-- who knows what kind of boobs they would have?
-mouse-
Peter da Silva
P Damian Cugley <cug...@black.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> Breasts are like thumbs and plantigrade feet -- they are features of
> humans that animals don't have (by and large) [...]
One thing I've noticed, and bothers me a little, is the tendency for
folks to draw animals as if they were all highly digitigrade like dogs
and cats. A lot of animals aren't... walking on the toes is a development
that's been evolved independently lots of times, but it's something that
comes in various degrees. Mustelids, for example, aren't jack-legged.
Some, like the otter, will stand plantigrade even when they go on their
toes to run. Bears, of course, walk on their feet.
It's like the four fingered hands. I know that's something picked up from
cartoons, but it's often justified as a furry feature. Sure, cats and dogs
have this dew-claw for the fifth digit... but others (mustelids, again, or
rodents) don't.
--
Peter da Silva. <pe...@sugar.neosoft.com>.
`-_-' Ja' abracas-te o teu lobo, hoje?
'U`
Looks like UNIX, Feels like UNIX, works like MVS -- IBM advertisement.
Tygger
: It's like the four fingered hands. I know that's something picked up from
: cartoons, but it's often justified as a furry feature. Sure, cats and dogs
: have this dew-claw for the fifth digit... but others (mustelids, again, or
: rodents) don't.
The hands are more a stylistic thing, I think, than anything else.
[closely examining the forepaws of Sneezer the Great Grey Furry Thing]
Sneezer has a vestigial "thumb" on his forepaws and has five toes on his
hindpaws. I dare say the same is true of mice as well.
[clink clink]
TTFN!
Tygger!
--
******************************************************************************
"For those situations where a fresh, living sacrifice is just not
feasible or even possible, the lower ranks of demons can be fooled by
microwaving a previously-frozen chunk of ex-victim and cleverly jiggling
it. HOWEVER, a mock-victim sculpted from Spam is right out."
How To Be A Cultist, Rule #24
Eric A. Schwartz
Peter da Silva <pe...@sugar.NeoSoft.COM> wrote:
>In article <1994Mar28....@black.ox.ac.uk>,
>One thing I've noticed, and bothers me a little, is the tendency for
>Some, like the otter, will stand plantigrade even when they go on their
>toes to run.
>
standing upright on their hind legs, if they are trying to be extra-tall
to get a better look at something. Usually they are plantigrade even
when up on two legs. The only other time I can think of is that they tend
to stand on tippy-toes while going to the bathroom. I suppose it serves
to keep the majority of their feet out of any puddles that may develop.
>It's like the four fingered hands. I know that's something picked up from
>cartoons, but it's often justified as a furry feature. Sure, cats and dogs
>have this dew-claw for the fifth digit... but others (mustelids, again, or
>rodents) don't.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but just to clarify:
Mustelids have five fingers or toes per paw. Rodents have four fingers
on their front paws, and five toes on their hind paws.
E.S.
D.M. Quozl Falk
**}}TO: All
**}}FROM: PeterPlantigrade feetugar.neosoft.com
**}}SUBJECT: Plantigrade feet
**}}ON: 03-28-94 08:26
Pe> In article <1994Mar28....@black.ox.ac.uk>,
Pe> P Damian Cugley <cug...@black.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> Breasts are like thumbs and plantigrade feet -- they are features of
> humans that animals don't have (by and large) [...]
Pe> One thing I've noticed, and bothers me a little, is the tendency for
Pe> folks to draw animals as if they were all highly digitigrade like dogs
Pe> and cats. A lot of animals aren't... walking on the toes is a
Pe> development that's been evolved independently lots of times, but it's
Pe> something that comes in various degrees. Mustelids, for example, aren't
Pe> jack-legged. Some, like the otter, will stand plantigrade even when
Pe> they go on their toes to run. Bears, of course, walk on their feet.
Skunks are naturally plantigrade.....
Pe> It's like the four fingered hands. I know that's something picked up
Pe> from cartoons, but it's often justified as a furry feature. Sure, cats
Pe> and dogs have this dew-claw for the fifth digit... but others
Pe> (mustelids, again, or rodents) don't.
Skunks have paws that do have 4 fingers and a thumb, and, whose paw prints
resemble a human hand's... Skunks' footprints also closely resemble a human's
footprints in shape and structure.... Also, skunks' ears, and probably true for
most mustelidae, are placed behind the eyes, rather than on top, similar to the
positions of human ears.....
....Quozl!
... "Which way to the skunks! I want to raise a little stink!" :)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--
//////======////////// |Dennis M. Falk |221 Huntoon St.|TTA/Animaniacs/WB
/ @ ) \\\\\\\\\\ |aka "Quozl Mephit"|Eureka, CA |TaleSpin/CnD-RR
*___(_____(___| |(qu...@netcom.com)|95501-4115 USA |Fifi/Babs/Minerva
Supporting your right to own a pet Mustelid! (Skunks, ferrets, otters, minks..)
Peter da Silva
Eric A. Schwartz <sch...@rembrandt.its.rpi.edu> wrote:
> I only rarely see otters standing digitigrade at all.
I didn't think they did, either, but there are several pictures in Ed Park's
book "The World of the Otter" that contradict what I thought I knew.
> >cartoons, but it's often justified as a furry feature. Sure, cats and dogs
> >have this dew-claw for the fifth digit... but others (mustelids, again, or
> >rodents) don't.
> Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying,
I think so. What I'm saying is that in cats and dogs the fifth digit (thumb)
has become the dew-claw, but in mustelids it's still working as a finger.
Eric A. Schwartz
>
>Skunks have paws that do have 4 fingers and a thumb, and, whose paw prints
>resemble a human hand's... Skunks' footprints also closely resemble a human's
>footprints in shape and structure.... Also, skunks' ears, and probably true for
>most mustelidae, are placed behind the eyes, rather than on top, similar to the
>positions of human ears.....
>
Mustelids, like primates, are a very ancient order of mammals, and probably
share a large number of similarly primitive (in other words, they've worked
well enough to last 60,000,000 years or so.) structural details. They're
a lot more cute than primates, though. :-) :-)
>--
> //////======////////// |Dennis M. Falk |221 Huntoon St.|TTA/Animaniacs/WB
> / @ ) \\\\\\\\\\ |aka "Quozl Mephit"|Eureka, CA |TaleSpin/CnD-RR
>*___(_____(___| |(qu...@netcom.com)|95501-4115 USA |Fifi/Babs/Minerva
Love the new .sig!
E.S.
Eric A. Schwartz
>
>book "The World of the Otter" that contradict what I thought I knew.
>
pose, so it shows up excessively in photos.
>> >have this dew-claw for the fifth digit... but others (mustelids, again, or
>> >rodents) don't.
>
>> Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying,
>
>I think so. What I'm saying is that in cats and dogs the fifth digit (thumb)
>has become the dew-claw, but in mustelids it's still working as a finger.
>--
OK. In clawless otters, it actually works as an opposable thumb, BTW.
On a similar note, some animals have 'replacement thumbs' even though
they have no real bones to serve as a thumb. Panda's have a bone
spur in the location of the thumb, and they can roll a couple of fingers
against it. Rodents only have four fingers, but they use an enlarged
pawpad to grip with sometimes. As a general rule, smaller animals will
be lacking in a finger, and larger animals will sometimes have
extras. The bigger they are, the more likely it is that there will
be extra fetal tissue that can differentiate into a finger.
E.S.
Bruce Grant
(Eric A. Schwartz) said:
ES> pawpad to grip with sometimes. As a general rule, smaller animals
ES> will be lacking in a finger, and larger animals will sometimes
ES> have extras. The bigger they are, the more likely it is that
ES> there will be extra fetal tissue that can differentiate into a
ES> finger. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
??? This is the first I've heard of embryo size being related to limb
development.
From what I understand (but if I've got it wrong, someone please
correct me!) the effects of the DNA coding on the ends of the limb
buds are what determines how many twiddly bits grow on the end.
Bruce.
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Eric A. Schwartz
Bruce Grant <bruce...@evaware.org> wrote:
>In article <2nlm3p$n3o#usenet.rpi.edu>, sch...@rembrandt.its.rpi.edu
>(Eric A. Schwartz) said:
>
>ES> pawpad to grip with sometimes. As a general rule, smaller animals
>ES> will be lacking in a finger, and larger animals will sometimes
>ES> have extras. The bigger they are, the more likely it is that
>ES> there will be extra fetal tissue that can differentiate into a
>ES> finger. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>??? This is the first I've heard of embryo size being related to limb
>development.
>
>From what I understand (but if I've got it wrong, someone please
>correct me!) the effects of the DNA coding on the ends of the limb
>buds are what determines how many twiddly bits grow on the end.
>
honestly only heard this directly in connection with dog breeds, the
reason there are a lot of six-toed St. Bernards and few four-toed ones,
while there are plenty of four-toed Chihuahuas and essentially no
six-toed ones, is that the bigger dog simply has the possibility of
developing extra digits if the DNA doesn't copy exactly right, whereas
Chihuahua paws are just too small to split off a viable extra finger
bud, even if some damaged DNA instructs them to. Also, a bigger
limb bud simply has more DNA, and thus more places where an instruction
could duplicate and cause another digit.
Don't you just love run-on technical sentences? ;-)
E.S.
Tony_Lee...@cup.portal.com
>correct me!) the effects of the DNA coding on the ends of the limb
>buds are what determines how many twiddly bits grow on the end.
I'm not sure if it will shed any light on the matter, but there is in
Africa a certain village, where most everyone has six digits per hand.
In that case, it is clearly genetic.
dbi...@news.delphi.com
the triggers of differentiation... Along with a gene named after Sonic
the Hedgehog!
Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG (Wulfraed)
D.Bi...@GEnie.GEIS.com (Email preference)
DBi...@Delphi.com
Bruce Grant
(Eric A. Schwartz) said:
ES> If everything goes exactly 'right' then it's the DNA. But, and
ES> I've honestly only heard this directly in connection with dog
ES> breeds, the reason there are a lot of six-toed St. Bernards and
ES> few four-toed ones, while there are plenty of four-toed Chihuahuas
ES> and essentially no six-toed ones, is that the bigger dog simply
ES> has the possibility of developing extra digits if the DNA doesn't
ES> copy exactly right, whereas Chihuahua paws are just too small to
ES> split off a viable extra finger bud, even if some damaged DNA
ES> instructs them to. Also, a bigger limb bud simply has more DNA,
ES> and thus more places where an instruction could duplicate and
ES> cause another digit.
That explains it, then. :-)
Considering that Chihuahuas and St. Bernards are both supposed to be
the size of a wolf, I'm not surprised that peculiar things are
beginning to show up. The wolf's been evolving for millions of years,
but even the oldest domesticated dog breeds are only a few thousand
years old.
Something still doesn't sound quite right with your explanation,
though. I get this mental picture of one gene asking another gene:
"All right, I've done all the toes on the end of this leg, what do I
do with all the bud cells left over?"
Bruce.
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Peter da Silva
Bruce Grant <bruce...@evaware.org> wrote:
> Something still doesn't sound quite right with your explanation,
> though. I get this mental picture of one gene asking another gene:
> "All right, I've done all the toes on the end of this leg, what do I
> do with all the bud cells left over?"
Basically. Since cell differentiation seems to be driven by chemical balances
and purely local effects that's more or less what happens. If there's a bunch
of cells left over and they're in the right place to form a toe that's what
you get.