Think Burned Fur's bad? Try these guys.
Hangdog
now. We take a lot of heat for this, most of it from people who want
the fandom to stay dirty--and some from people who want to see it
destroyed entirely.
The following statement was posted by Mr. Sonny "Kobus" Windstrup to
another open (though moderated) online forum. As that puts it in the
public domain, I have no qualms about reposting t here, in its
entirety.
You'll note that he makes many of the same observations as Burned Fur
does, but he comes to an entirely different conclusion. Hence, I
suppose, his evident dislike for Burned Fur: we want to save the
fandom, he wants to destroy it.
Make no mistake: Burned Fur is still completely and unchangeably
opposed to those who would make this fandom a "home base" for
fetishism and worse. We oppose them because their actions, left
unchecked, will ultimately destroy the fandom. But we do not have any
common ground, either, with those who would destroy the fandom by
other means, or for other reasons.
--Hangdog, Burned Fur.
> I still toddle around here on Yerf. I sometimes contribute dubious
> etchings, and on sporadic occasions I even post comments that in
> most cases were meant to be helpful in one way or another. That should
> tell you right there that I'm not working real hard to 'undo' this site.
>
> However, Yerf is about the only construct online or offline, within the
> borderline realm of "furry", which I'd even consider defending as
> worthwhile, sometimes interesting, occasionally really good and
> mostly harmless.
>
> Everybody who stood by, letting the sickos and pervos walk right in,
> instead of telling them to kindly keep their fucked up shit outside,
> everybody who turned their face and looked the other way,
> instead of expressing their dissatisfaction with what was going on,
> everybody who supported and welcomed these unrelated elements,
> instead of organizing to exclude them from influence and dominance,
> everybody who surrendered the reputation of the fandom to these degenerates,
> in the much-abused name of tolerance,
> at the very high price of eternal public damnation by association,
>
> ALL THOSE PEOPLE are to blame for turning something as simple and
> innocuous as funny animal cartoon fandom into this fucked up pile
> of degenerate misery. There IS no such thing anymore as funny animal
> cartoon fandom nicely held separate from furry. The minute some
> new publication with talking critters comes out, god help us, they
> are immediately plastered with furries fawning all over them.
> The very talented Stephanie Gladden got a ton of lewd furry crap the
> minute she published the first issue of Hopster's Tracks. Furry is
> a creeping disease that reaches everywhere funny animal fandom would
> want to be.
>
> This is all going on regardless of whatever is attempted by the
> impotent bickering and small-dicked useless centrist wannabe politicos
> within the fandom puffing themselves up to look important (hiya Hangdork!
> What are your guys up to? Spin control! GOOD FUCKING LUCK!)
>
> There IS no cure other than killing the patient.
>
> Furry is about the filthiest adjective in my dictionary, and with
> a little help from the mainstream media, it soon will be everybody's.
> Rightly deserved. Furry is a TOILET. You can keep piling SHIT into
> it INDEFINITELY and it stinks WORSE and WORSE until someone FLUSHES
> the fucking thing. But nobody gives a rats ass about the STINK in
> this fandom. That would be INTOLERANT towards the floating colonies
> of atomic mutated fecal debris which make up the core elements of this
> dystopian nightmare of a good thing gone as far to hell as it probably ever
> could. So nobody EVER flushes that toilet.
>
> My regards to Mark & Rod. You guys succeeded beyond anyone's expectations.
>
> Only, the naive furned burs thinks they can somehow sprinkle on rose tinted
> water and sugar frosting to make things look nice - to what end? To fool more
> naive victims into the viscous soup of goop temporarily camouflaged as cake?
> It's all for nothing, and it'll all end in a purge one way or another. Most
> likely, at the current going rate, the turds get to float happy and
> undisturbed as everyone else leaves the toilet circus alone and quits in
> disgust from having anything further to do with funny animals. And that'll be
> the end of that. Good riddance. If the media CAN speed things up with choice
> articles like the one served this week, maybe they'll help us pass the word:
>
> "Furry Fandom is fucked up beyond repair and must be EUTHANIZED."
>
> You'll just have to excuse me for being vulgar,
> and probably neither eloquent or sufficiently specific on this regrettable
> subject, but you asked. So.
>
Hangdog
the whole genre? Why be a fan of funny animals, let alone attempt to save that
fandom, when the likes of _Vanity Fair_ have consigned it to the perv-bucket--to
the perfect satisfaction of the pervs? It's not like it was all that cool to begin
with...
C.S. Lewis has saved me the trouble of phrasing a response: his lines below will
serve as *my* Manifesto, which I offer in response to the likes of both Kobus and
Xydexx, Rackety and Cataroo, Random and Trigem--these being, after all, just two
sides of the same bad penny:
All the world's wiseacres in arms against them
Shan't detach my heart for a single moment
From the man-like beasts of the earthy stories--
Badger or Moly.
Rat the Oarsman, neat Mrs. Tiggy Winkle,
Benjamin, pert Nutkin, or (ages older)
Henryson's shrill Mouse, or the Mice the Frogs once
Fought with in Homer.
Not that I'm so craz'd as to think the creatures
Do behave that way, nor at all deluded
By some half-false sweetness of early childhood
Sharply remembered.
Look again. Look well at the beasts, the true ones.
Can't you see?...cool primness of cats, or coney's
Half-indignant stare of amazement, mouse's
Twinkling adroitness,
Tipsy bear's rotundity, toad's complacence...
Why! they all cry out to be used as symbols,
Masks for Man, cartoons, parodies by Nature
Formed to reveal us
Each to each, not fiercely but in her gentlest
Vein of household laughter. And if the love so
Raised--it will, no doubt--splashes over on the
Actual archetypes,
Who's the worse for that? Marry, gup! Begone, you
Fusty kill-joys, new Manichaeans! Here's a
Health to Toad Hall, here's to the Beaver doing
Sums with the Butcher!
--"Impenitence"
Caveman Joe
and say nothing?"
Or, perhaps, "why not just *say* you're not Furry?"
Furries will never be accepted socially, fellows. No, actually, that's a
silly way of putting it... Furries will never be socially accepted as long
as people know they're furries.
So... keep doing it. Just don't tell anyone. ;) It's more fun that way.
It'd solve lots of problems - why would groups like Burned Fur need to exist
if nobody actually expected to be socially accepted?
Think about it - I listen to Faith No More, the fantastic group from years
gone by (yeah, laugh). But I know that their stuff wouldn't appeal to
everybody - so, do I march around with a stereo under my arm, blasting out
"JizzLobber"? Fuck, no. People would think I was weird. :)
So why not just take the same attitude to Furry?
--
Like the echoes of your childhood laughter, ever after...
Like the first time love urged you to take its guidance, in silence...
Like your heartbeat when you realise you're dying, but you're trying...
Like the way we cry for a happy ending...
I know...
http://www.furnation.com/cmj
http://clik.to/cmj
"Hangdog" <peter....@pdq.net> wrote in message
news:E021C0F4B60D7A74.CF1780BF...@lp.airnews.net...
Woolly Mittens
> now. We take a lot of heat for this, most of it from people who want
> the fandom to stay dirty--and some from people who want to see it
> destroyed entirely.
>
Why don't we all just get along and draw/enjoy cartoons like we always did?
Woolly
Alan Kennedy
It sounds like something like Sony would say.
Yet, its ALMOST the same thing I've been saying for a while now.
It onyl takes Hangdog or Sony's name to make people listen or perk up.
Oh well.
--
Alan Kennedy [TriGem Olandarinse]
EMAIL : tri...@REMOVEGIBBERISH.hotmail.com
YAHOO : goldanthrowolf & trigem_olandarinse
WWW : http://www.furnation.com/trigem
ICQ : 8781052
AUCTIONS :
http://furrybid.transform.to/cgi-bin/auction.pl?justdisp&Trigem_olandarinse
jason creature murdock
I have a question for everyone here who is getting their grundies in a
twist: Why are you letting someoen else define you?
You seem to think Vanity Fair defines you because it's a national
publication. Like Loaded, the Vanity Fair article was nothing more
then an attempt to sell copies. I'm sure their sales went up because
of it as furries went out and bought copies.
Don't worry about it. Those that read Vanity Fair, in my opinion,
don't matter in the grander scheme of things. My boss doesn't read
it, my fellow employees don't read it, expect for maybe a secritary
and a couple people in HR. In a company the size of NTT
Communications, they don't mean a thing. I'm more then certion
everyone else in this fandom is in a similar situation, even those
that work for McDonald's, CompUSA, Best Buy and others don't have to
worry. From Taco Bell to IBM, from Food Lion to Ford Motor Company, if
Vanity Fair is common reading by anyone in a place of power, worry
more about the stability of that company then about your job.
Let your actions speak for you. If someone at work reads it, point
out to them in facts and let them know how badly the article was
slanted. If they think you are lying and that the article is true, I
think it's time to realize that person or persons has more problems
then you do.
As for Ostrich and Galen Foxwolfie. I have met Ostrich, through
several friends of mine. Didn't know he was a lifestyler, didn't care
and still don't. He is a good guy and pleasent to be around, simple
as that. Galen Foxwolfie I have not met, may or may not ever. From
what I've read writen by him, I can only say he seems a good fellow
and probably not that bad. For what happen them, it could happen to
anyone. Like it or not, the writer twisted their words, like most
writers do now a days it seems. Even the most respected writer does
it now. You just have to deal with it.
Finally, like Loaded, this will all blow over and the collective will
go from hating just Galen Foxwolfie and Ostrich, to heating everyone
again. This is a fandom, folks. Everyone has their own ideas of what
is going on and what shouldn't go on. From the 40 year old who just
wants to read Disney comics and keep thinking the world is simple, to
25 year old sick and twisted bastards like myself who think the world
is just fucked up enough to be fun. We've all got the same right to
be here.
jason "creature" murdock
the grandbastard
Taura
> Make no mistake: Burned Fur is still completely and unchangeably
> opposed to those who would make this fandom a "home base" for
> fetishism and worse. We oppose them because their actions, left
> unchecked, will ultimately destroy the fandom. But we do not have any
> common ground, either, with those who would destroy the fandom by
> other means, or for other reasons.
Make no mistake, there are many other groups who are still completely and
unchangeably
opposed to those who would make this bandon a "home base" for intolorance,
perjudice, and hate. They would oppose you because (in which they feel the same
way
you do) left unchecked, will ultimately destroy the fandom.
You have more common ground with those furs than you think, you're basing
your whole opposition on the belief that `fetishism and worse' is destroying the
fandom. Anyone can believe something is bad and be utterly opposed to it, that
dosen't require any skill or talent... its just being pathetic.
--
Sincerely, ,"-_ \|/
-Capt. Taura M. , O=__ --X--
..__ ,_JNMNNEO=_ /|\
OMNOUMmnne. {OMMNNNEEEEOO=_
UOOOBIOOOEOMMn. 'LONMMMMNNEEEOOO=.__..,,..
UUOOEUUOOOOOOOObe '"=OMMMMWNEEEOOOOO,"=OEEEOO=,._
OOUUUIEEIOONNOIUbe. "7OMMMMNNNNNWWEEEEOOOOOO" "'.
EEBNNMMMNWNWWEEIMMNe. __ 7EMMMNNNNNWWWEEEEEEEOO. " .
NNMMMMWWWMMMWEINMMMNn "=BBEEEEMMMMMMMMNNNWWWEEOOOOO=._ .
http://furry.ao.net/~learfox/
Matthew Milam
Breaking into a new mode here. I used to draw (thou I realize many
hate this company, I used to actually watch the channel for this) the
Disney Channel Logo. I found it rather simple to picture, hard to put
on a piece of paper. A few times I actually got it right, but never
had the sense to send it in (they would display daily drawings of the
logo from time to time from various kids).
I used to read alot of furry comics, but business dealings and bad
distribution always canned my interest real quick. Sabrina Online as
well as other furry online comics won't go out as fast (thou I suspect
there's plenty of cost in inking, pressing, and keeping a webspace
(which i'm sure he owns as well as webserves, have to check that).
Anyho, I think fun is definetely missing around here.
-Matt
I'm still kicking around the idea of a Talespin movie, not as much as
i did when I talked about it thou (money is tight, as well as a lack
of a comfortable period of time to think about such things. Plus,
Disney wouldn't like all of the relationship stuff. They almost don't
do that as well in any case).
Elf Sternberg
Hangdog <peter....@pdq.net> writes:
>The following statement was posted by Mr. Sonny "Kobus" Windstrup to
>another open (though moderated) online forum. As that puts it in the
>public domain, I have no qualms about reposting t here, in its
>entirety.
This is simply not true. Regardless of what Mr. Windstrup
believes, he crafted those words and he has the right to control where
they go until he transfers that right to someone else. Posting
something to Usenet, or any public forum, does not "put it in the public
domain" any more than printing something in a newspaper. The clairinet
people have made quite a bit of money suing people who don't understand
this simple point of law.
You have violated copyright. Not that anyone will care.
Elf
--
Elf M. Sternberg, rational romantic mystical cynical idealist
http://www.halcyon.com/elf/
Fast food restaurants are like gay bathhouses in San Francisco,
places where people go to engage in high-risk behaviors.
- Greg Critser
boojum
Caveman Joe wrote:
>
> So why not just take the same attitude to Furry?
boojum *giggles* at the thought. "We could introduce ourselves
as not-furries. We could have unfurry conventions like
NotFurtherConfusion and NotConFurence. We could tell people
we are notbunny's and we collect notfurry comics."
He wiggles his nose, "Sorry, a moment of sillyness overtook me."
boojum the brown bunny
Dr. Cat
: It'd solve lots of problems - why would groups like Burned Fur need to exist
: if nobody actually expected to be socially accepted?
For their actual main purpose. Though they may not be aware of it.
Just as people within the fandom that all like skunks or 'taurs or
military furries or otters will tend to group together, form groups
or zines or IRC channels or what have you so they can discuss their
mutual interests... People that love bitching about the more perverted
elements in furry fandom have something in common so they group together
for the enjoyment of talking about, or in this case bitching about it.
That's why their group exists.
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.furcadia.com
Furcadia - a graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: Hey I don't mind. When they go off and talk to each other it
keeps them out of our hair more, and there's less bitching here. Yay!)
Dr. Cat
: Why don't we all just get along and draw/enjoy cartoons like we always did?
Here's a big secret for you - most of us still are. The few people that
are saying "Oh my gosh that article is going to cause huge problems" or
that have web pages talking about applying "maximum cruelty" to other
people within the fandom are actually a tiny but vocal minority. The
number of people in furry fandom is in the tens of thousands at least,
and I'd estimate the number of people who aren't getting along and
enjoying/drawing like we always did at less than 1% of them. Not too bad
really, when you think about it. :X)
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.furcadia.com
Furcadia - a graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: "Maximum Cruelty" is a trademark of Frobtronics, Inc. Any
group within the furry fandom using it had better be paying the
appropriate licensing fees, or they'll be hearing from the infamous
Frobtronics Army O' Lawyers (also tm).)
slu...@earthlink.net
> You have more common ground with those furs than you think, you're basing
> your whole opposition on the belief that `fetishism and worse' is
> destroying the fandom. Anyone can believe something is bad and be utterly > opposed to it, that dosen't require any skill or talent... its just being > pathetic.
So, anyone you don't like is exactly the same as anyone else you
don't like. They're all alike and just as bad so they might as well
be sleeping together even if they don't like one another.
Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
Kiala Dreamstalker
> Make no mistake: Burned Fur is still completely and unchangeably
> opposed to those who would make this fandom a "home base" for
> fetishism and worse. We oppose them because their actions, left
> unchecked, will ultimately destroy the fandom. But we do not have any
> common ground, either, with those who would destroy the fandom by
> other means, or for other reasons.
So because I have a taste for various fetishes I should try and flush
these from my mind? Or at the very least bottle them up, hiding the fact
that I happen to enjoy these things. Is furry not a group that's mostly
acceptant of such things?
I mean, shit.. You all associate with non-human creatures, some mythical
and most not. That's a rather disturbing fetish, don't you think? Let's
just ban free thinking altogether!
Yes, I agree that a good public image for the fandom is, useful with
things, but I have no intention of stopping what I do at my computer, in
my house, and in my hotel room..
-Kiala, Perverted Fur =P
=====-===-==-=--=-----.---.--.-..-..... ... .. . . . |
|.#.#.###.|Kiala Raven Dreamstalker |"For centuries, we were|
|.#.#..#..|ki...@lycanthrope.net | the watchers. Now we |
|.##...#..|www.dreamchaos.org |awake -- and your world|
|.#.#..#..|Author, Mage, Theri |can never go back." |
|.#.#.###.| ICQ: 17611893 | IRC: Kiala | -Dennis Redwing |
|------------------- Member of FurBuy.com ---------------------|
| . . . .. ... .....-..-.--.---.-----=--=-==-===-=====
Michael Pena
Personally I am just going to stay and continue having the time of my
life. I am having a wonderful time meeting people, selling plush
animals, comics and artwork.
I found the Vanity Fair article rather amusing, certainly not
something to get upset about. It does not contain any information that
one could not find out simply by doing a search on the web.
I think the Furry Fandom is a very cool and fun place to be :)
Sincerely,
Michael Angel Peña(AKA Sparrow...A Rabbit)
Artist-Laughing Rabbit Graphics
http://lonestar.texas.net/~sparrow/sparrow.htm
Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC
>Furries will never be accepted socially, fellows. No, actually, that's
>a silly way of putting it... Furries will never be socially accepted as
>long as people know they're furries.
I have been telling my friends, family, and co-workers about furry fandom for
the past seven years now with no problems.
I must be doing something right.
--
_________________________________________________
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen / Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC
It's probably why I get flamed so often...
http://www.xydexx.com/anthrofurry
Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC
>Let your actions speak for you. If someone at work reads it, point
>out to them in facts and let them know how badly the article was
>slanted. If they think you are lying and that the article is true, I
>think it's time to realize that person or persons has more problems
>then you do.
Very well said. -:)
--
_________________________________________________
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen / Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC
Flamewars: The only winning move is not to play.
http://www.xydexx.com/anthrofurry
Dr. Cat
: Greetings Hangdog!
: Personally I am just going to stay and continue having the time of my
: life. I am having a wonderful time meeting people, selling plush
: animals, comics and artwork.
You may be asking yourself - how can this artist and occasional drawer
of bunnies be so happy? And in a fandom which so clearly makes other
people so very upset?
I live in the same city as him, and I know his secret.
Hawaiian shirts!
I mean really, how could you fail to be happy when you're always wearing
one shirt or another which is so clearly in an exuberant mood itself? I
think he's onto something there! Maybe the bunnies help too, I dunno.
: I think the Furry Fandom is a very cool and fun place to be :)
Or could we all be "obviously delusional"?
Nah, I think it's the Hawaiian shirts thing. Party on!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.furcadia.com
Furcadia - a graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: If any canines still believe I hallucinated my entire career,
Michael Pena, having met me in person, could possibly provide further
evidence to the contrary. On the other paw, he's never actually seen me
work. But then again, most of my coworkers haven't either. :X)
(Random thought: Hey where's MY hawaiian shirt at these days?)
Hangdog
> In article <E8D11D4EE0EA6214.8DE19948...@lp.airnews.net>
> Hangdog <peter....@pdq.net> writes:
>
> >The following statement was posted by Mr. Sonny "Kobus" Windstrup to
> >another open (though moderated) online forum. As that puts it in the
> >public domain, I have no qualms about reposting t here, in its
> >entirety.
>
> This is simply not true. Regardless of what Mr. Windstrup
> believes, he crafted those words and he has the right to control where
> they go until he transfers that right to someone else. Posting
> something to Usenet, or any public forum, does not "put it in the public
> domain" any more than printing something in a newspaper. The clairinet
> people have made quite a bit of money suing people who don't understand
> this simple point of law.
>
> You have violated copyright. Not that anyone will care.
Right. Well, that'll be one more lawsuit for me to wait for, in addition to those
threatened (explicitly or implicitly) by Trigem, Random, Sonny Windstrup, and
Betty Roget.
Sonny, care to make a go of *this?*
--Hangdog, not holding his breath...
Shadowspawn
>Burned Fur's been trying to clean up this fandom for about three years
>now. We take a lot of heat for this, most of it from people who want
>the fandom to stay dirty--and some from people who want to see it
>destroyed entirely.
You would have a much bigger following, and a much larger membership
if you would through out your own lunatic fringe and stop insulting
those who would otherwise agree with you.
As for Kobus' comments, he's correct in most of it. All but the
tossing the baby out with the bathwater. Target the weeds and leave
the crops standing. Tend the crops and take care of the soil.
In other words, (less crypticly) :)
Pay artists to draw clean art. Go to the art shows and auctions and
bid up the clean art. Draw clean art. Write good clean furry fiction.
Why not just bore the hell out of the radicals so they decide to go
elsewhere. You will never shout them down, or change their ways. And
you can't expect the artists, writers and other venders to throw away
their livelyhood for a pat on the back.
Cleaning up the fandom's image will take a lot of work, by all of us.
It will never be accomplished by playing politics or by holding
endless scream sessions.
Hangdog
> Hangdog <peter....@pdq.net> wrote:
>
> >Burned Fur's been trying to clean up this fandom for about three years
> >now. We take a lot of heat for this, most of it from people who want
> >the fandom to stay dirty--and some from people who want to see it
> >destroyed entirely.
>
> You would have a much bigger following, and a much larger membership
> if you would through out your own lunatic fringe and stop insulting
> those who would otherwise agree with you.
>
> As for Kobus' comments, he's correct in most of it. All but the
> tossing the baby out with the bathwater. Target the weeds and leave
> the crops standing. Tend the crops and take care of the soil.
>
> In other words, (less crypticly) :)
>
> Pay artists to draw clean art.
Tried that with a member of Kobus's inner circle. Had to call a collection
agency to get the goods. 'Nuff said.
> Go to the art shows and auctions and bid up the clean art.
Been there, done that, at AC, CF, MFF, and FC.
> Draw clean art.
Can't draw.
> Write good clean furry fiction.
Done that.
> Why not just bore the hell out of the radicals so they decide to go
> elsewhere.
They're we're at a disadvantage: the yiffheads have a much higher threshold
of boredom than we do. Hence the endlessly repetitive nature of spooge art
and spooge stories.
> You will never shout them down, or change their ways.
True, but we can ask for sanctions against bad behavior.
> And you can't expect the artists, writers and other venders to throw away
>
> their livelyhood for a pat on the back.
People can write and draw what they want and sell it as they please,
pursuant to appropriate regulations about access to minors, etc. We
recognize a First Amendment issue when we see it.
> Cleaning up the fandom's image will take a lot of work, by all of us.
> It will never be accomplished by playing politics or by holding
> endless scream sessions.
No, but they're fun, and they get the word out :o)
Not that I disagree with you all that much--very little, in fact. But
you're just covering old ground here, so I'm apt to be a trifle brusque.
No offense meant :o)
--Hangdog, Burned Fur
Shadowspawn
>Shadowspawn wrote:
>
>> Pay artists to draw clean art.
>
>Tried that with a member of Kobus's inner circle. Had to call a collection
>agency to get the goods. 'Nuff said.
One artist stiffed you. I'm sure you can find others that wont.
>
>> Go to the art shows and auctions and bid up the clean art.
>
>Been there, done that, at AC, CF, MFF, and FC.
Great! Now get 500 of your friends to do it too! :)
>
>> Draw clean art.
>
>Can't draw.
Neither can I, but I try.
>> Write good clean furry fiction.
>
>Done that.
Where's it at?
>> Why not just bore the hell out of the radicals so they decide to go
>> elsewhere.
>
>They're we're at a disadvantage: the yiffheads have a much higher threshold
>of boredom than we do. Hence the endlessly repetitive nature of spooge art
>and spooge stories.
Maybe so, but what the hay, keep at 'er!
>> You will never shout them down, or change their ways.
>
>True, but we can ask for sanctions against bad behavior.
>
>> And you can't expect the artists, writers and other venders to throw away
>>
>> their livelyhood for a pat on the back.
>
>People can write and draw what they want and sell it as they please,
>pursuant to appropriate regulations about access to minors, etc. We
>recognize a First Amendment issue when we see it.
Yes, but if fans do more to encourage the production of clean art,
they will produce and sell it. Look at the pittifull responses to
some of the posts in the misc newsgroup. A lot of the art doesn't get
even one response.
>> Cleaning up the fandom's image will take a lot of work, by all of us.
>> It will never be accomplished by playing politics or by holding
>> endless scream sessions.
>
>No, but they're fun, and they get the word out :o)
>
>Not that I disagree with you all that much--very little, in fact. But
>you're just covering old ground here, so I'm apt to be a trifle brusque.
Old ground, but true none the less. And nicer to discuss anyhow :)
>No offense meant :o)
You'll have to work pretty hard to offend me. I just dont get excited
easily :)
slu...@earthlink.net
>
> Hangdog wrote:
> > Make no mistake: Burned Fur is still completely and unchangeably
> > opposed to those who would make this fandom a "home base" for
> > fetishism and worse. We oppose them because their actions, left
> > unchecked, will ultimately destroy the fandom. But we do not have any
> > common ground, either, with those who would destroy the fandom by
> > other means, or for other reasons.
>
> things, but I have no intention of stopping what I do at my computer, in
> my house, and in my hotel room..
Well, yes. Free thinking is good. No one ever said anything about
forming a thought police. Well, maybe the paranoid ones.
Just remember that more cohesive organizations out there like to
think they're forward thinking as well. NAMBLA comes to mind.
Farlo
> Just remember that more cohesive organizations out there like to
>think they're forward thinking as well. NAMBLA comes to mind.
Is there any particular reason that the members of a "forward"
organization, the BF, have this disgusting fascination with NAMBLA?
I vote that we keep disgusting topics like NAMBLA, pedophilia, bestiality
and the BF out of AFF.
--
Farlo
Urban fey dragon
m>^_^<m
slu...@earthlink.net
Playing net cop on an unmoderated ALT group is not my idea of fun.
Just take a look at alt.pizza.delivery.drivers and you'll see!
chance wolf
I generally make a habit of avoiding threads in a.f.f. with incendiary
titles, but I'm glad I made the exception in this case.
Thanks for posting this. Nice to see the Lion and Witch take a breather
just long enough for a welcome peek in the Wardrobe.
chance (who couldn't bring himself to cut any of it. *snif* Now I'll have
to go rent 'Shadowlands' again or somethin')
Michael Campbell
jason creature murdock wrote:
> I have a question for everyone here who is getting their grundies in a
> twist: Why are you letting someoen else define you?
Gee, I dunno, maybe it's because those 'someone else' people are the ones
that review our portfolios, consider us for promotions, order the comics
at the stores we frequent, and generally run the world, that's all.
> You seem to think Vanity Fair defines you because it's a national
> publication. Like Loaded, the Vanity Fair article was nothing more
> then an attempt to sell copies.
Yes, they sell copies: 1.28 million copies in the united states alone.
Want a visual aid? Picture this: Assuming that every issue of VF is 1/4"
thick, they would form a stack 26,666 feet tall. You would have to stack
over fifteen Sears Towers to get an equivalent height. And that's just for
ONE month. Want a comparison? Assuming that each issue of FURRLOUGH is
also 1/4 of an inch thick, you would get a stack 62.5 feet tall, or just
over six stories.
And the really unsettling part? That's just the US edition. I wonder how
many languages this article has been translated into...
> Don't worry about it. Those that read Vanity Fair, in my opinion,
> don't matter in the grander scheme of things. My boss doesn't read
> it, my fellow employees don't read it, expect for maybe a secritary
> and a couple people in HR.
In this wired-in, everyone-has-access-to-everything age in which we live,
this is an extremely anachronistic attitude to take. How many people on
this news group read this article before the issue it was in even hit the
stands? What's to prevent a prospective employer from typing 'furry' into
a search engine and having this pop up? What's to stop someone from
sending a 'check these freaks out!' email to twenty of his closest friends
with a link to the article?
> Let your actions speak for you. If someone at work reads it, point
> out to them in facts and let them know how badly the article was
> slanted. If they think you are lying and that the article is true, I
> think it's time to realize that person or persons has more problems
> then you do.
And if that person who 'has more problems than I do' just happens to be my
supervisor? Or the guy who does my performance evaluations? Or the young
woman who reviews my material for publication? Or is the dean at the art
school I'm applying to? What do I do then that doesn't sound like a
whitewash?
> As for Ostrich and Galen Foxwolfie. I have met Ostrich, through
> several friends of mine. Didn't know he was a lifestyler, didn't care
> and still don't. He is a good guy and pleasent to be around, simple
> as that.
My beef with Ostrich is simple: He should have known better. He's
thirty-nine years old, and has been in this fandom for a while. He was on
the Midwest Furfest staff at the time this article was written, for
chrissake. He should have bloody well KNOWN how this guy was going to
slant this article. Or maybe his lust to see his name in print overpowered
his common sense, I don't know.
> Finally, like Loaded, this will all blow over and the collective will
> go from hating just Galen Foxwolfie and Ostrich, to hating everyone
> again.
It doesn't 'blow over,' it just adds another straw to the metaphorical
camel's back. Sooner or later that back will break, and take this entire
scene with it. Ask the Confurence staff about how many Media types they've
turned away from this years CF, or the rumor that HUSTLER is nosing
around. How about the camera crew from HBOs REAL SEX?
> This is a fandom, folks.
This is the only thing in you post that I agree with. Yes, it IS a fandom.
A place where people who have similar tastes in entertainment. Not a haven
for fetishists. And being a member of a fannish subculture does not give
you a license to ignore the rules of the MAIN culture.
> We've all got the same right to be here.
Oh, okay. So your right to swing your metaphorical fist doesn't stop where
my nose starts. Thanks for clearing that up.
Michael Campbell
XianJaguar
From: Shadowspawn dou...@cgocable.net
Date: Mon, Feb 19, 2001 7:42 PM
Message-id: <88o39t8rg8nc2hbgm...@4ax.com>
<<Pay artists to draw clean art. Go to the art shows and auctions and bid up
the clean art. Draw clean art. Write good clean furry fiction.
Why not just bore the hell out of the radicals so they decide to go elsewhere.
You will never shout them down, or change their ways. And you can't expect the
artists, writers and other venders to throw away
their livelyhood for a pat on the back.
Cleaning up the fandom's image will take a lot of work, by all of us.
It will never be accomplished by playing politics or by holding endless scream
sessions. >>
Amen to all that!
Every individual is responsible for taking an active role in making fandom a
better place. If we put a lot of attention and effort into wholesome pursuits,
the "fandom" will grow in that direction. I think efforts like Yerf, (and a lot
of the artists on Yerf) have been doing a great job in giving people a choice
to view clean, high quality art that for the most part, speaks well of fandom,
as well as commissioners who put a lot of money into the fandom for "clean"
art. I am sure there are zines and comics out there too, that are good examples
as well.
brenda
Brian Henderson
<ki...@lycanthrope.net> wrote:
>So because I have a taste for various fetishes I should try and flush
>these from my mind? Or at the very least bottle them up, hiding the fact
>that I happen to enjoy these things. Is furry not a group that's mostly
>acceptant of such things?
No, you're more than welcome to practice and enjoy any fetish you
like. Screw cows for all I care. Just don't claim that it's a part
of furry fandom. Whatever you do on your own time is fine by me, but
when your actions start to affect me, that's when there is a problem.
Guilt by association is no fun, trust me.
-Brian
Brian Henderson
>Is there any particular reason that the members of a "forward"
>organization, the BF, have this disgusting fascination with NAMBLA?
>I vote that we keep disgusting topics like NAMBLA, pedophilia, bestiality
>and the BF out of AFF.
Maybe because there are people who belong to these groups (well,
except for BF, who at least mean well) who *ARE* the problems?
Duh?
-Brian
Furplay
XianJaguar wrote:
>
>
> Every individual is responsible for taking an active role in making fandom a
> better place. If we put a lot of attention and effort into wholesome pursuits,
> the "fandom" will grow in that direction. I think efforts like Yerf, (and a lot
> of the artists on Yerf) have been doing a great job in giving people a choice
> to view clean, high quality art that for the most part, speaks well of fandom,
> as well as commissioners who put a lot of money into the fandom for "clean"
> art. I am sure there are zines and comics out there too, that are good examples
> as well.
>
If you think that even if we burned all the erotica (and later, the
artists that drew them) will improve the image of the fandom, bear in
mind that mundanes will still regard us as freaks, simply because of the
fact that we're grown men and women who like to look at cartoon animals, period.
Please stop scapegoating furry erotica for all the woes. Blaming erotica
in the mundane realm does'nt solve society's woes in general, and
blaming/banning furry erotica won't cure us of anything either.
Furplay
Michael Campbell wrote:
>
[snip]
Well then, attribute it to what happens when some sleazeball "reporter"
comes up to you and starts pumping you for information (and the victim
*actually* falls for the lie about the reporter "being their friend").
One or two agencies have already swam over to join in the feeding frenzy
in the hopes of being able to make some money from the allegedly
easy-to-sucker furry fans. Hopefully they'll find the genre to be a lot
more wary then before, and when they can't get enough info to warrant a
story, they'll likely slither back underneath their respective rocks.
Chances are Jerry Springer's team is hard at work at trying to entice
some furs to appear on stage and talk about their fandom (probably even
sucker them with lies about "having a chance to set the record
straight"). God have mercy on the deluded fools who take the bait & make
total asses of themselves and a mockery of everything they believe in.
People *still* remember Hossi's appearence on JS (which still holds the
"honor" of being known as "the Springer episode too repulsive to air on
television, even by Jerry Springer standards").
I mean, if you were still a kid, and some guys pulls up in his Ford
Econoline van, and asks you to hop in so he can give you some candy,
would you do it? Regard reporters to be *barely* a notch more "respectable".
So the moral of the story is, the next time some "reporter" wants to
make an ass of you for their own profit, let your answer range from a
polite "thanks, but no thanks", to a more appropriate "FUCK OFF AND ROT,
YOU HACK!!".
Brian Henderson
murdock) wrote:
>I have a question for everyone here who is getting their grundies in a
>twist: Why are you letting someoen else define you?
It isn't about being defined, it's about being slandered. I don't
know about you, but I care about my reputation. I care about what
people think about me. And in the real world, when you crap in your
hand and throw it at the wall, it sticks. Like it or not, *ALL* of us
were hurt a little the day the VF article came out. Even if your boss
doesn't read it this time, what about the next article that comes out?
Do you have to worry about your friends who might have read it? What
about people you might want to talk to about furry fandom? Do you
have to completely hide what you enjoy because other people are
idiots?
-Brian
Don Sanders
slu...@earthlink.net says...
Well, in that case, that should leave a lot of
folks free to drag very unsavory topics into the
newsgroup.
Really, it makes sense, if you hate NAMBLA, why
bring it up all the time, unless you need fuel for
endless discussion of pap.
Or perhaps this sudden urge to ignore any social
grace and annoy folks with the constant bringing
up of topics.
But be my guest, if you want to bring up NAMBLA,
pedophilia, bestiality and the BF on AFF, why not
racism, anti-semitism, and a host of other things
as well, just to be fair!
--
Don Sanders.
RoadKill Fur (Sun baked sorta but not burned!)
Email dsan...@future.dreamscape.com
slu...@earthlink.net
> But be my guest, if you want to bring up NAMBLA,
> pedophilia, bestiality and the BF on AFF, why not
> racism, anti-semitism, and a host of other things
> as well, just to be fair!
You're paranoid.
That was the first time I ever brought it up. And as a example of
what some people consider 'forward thinking' and others think is just
sick.
Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC
>Every individual is responsible for taking an active role in making
>fandom a better place. If we put a lot of attention and effort into
>wholesome pursuits, the "fandom" will grow in that direction. I think
>efforts like Yerf, (and a lot of the artists on Yerf) have been doing a
>great job in giving people a choice to view clean, high quality art that
>for the most part, speaks well of fandom, as well as commissioners who
>put a lot of money into the fandom for "clean" art. I am sure there are
>zines and comics out there too, that are good examples as well.
100% correct.
Set a good example. Support what you like. Create things.
slu...@earthlink.net
>
> One or two agencies have already swam over to join in the feeding frenzy
> in the hopes of being able to make some money from the allegedly
> easy-to-sucker furry fans. Hopefully they'll find the genre to be a lot
> more wary then before, and when they can't get enough info to warrant a
> story, they'll likely slither back underneath their respective rocks.
Like the blurb about FurryMUCK in Wired, though I don't think it
was mentioned by name. That was almost seven years ago now. Or the
blurb in Playboy magazine that same year. Didn't mention 'Furry'
either but that should have been too close for comfort.
Most fans had the same kind of attitude they have now about this VF
article. And it ain't as damning as the article in Glue I read last
year. The point is that this is looking to get worse and worse with
each expose, and basically, to listen to some on AFF, it will be okay
if you just ignore it.
I mean, how loud does it have to get?
Perhaps when it ends up on 20/20, or 48 hours, or Dateline, or 60
minutes...
Don Sanders
slu...@earthlink.net says...
First time for you, countless times for quite a
few who frequent this newsgroup. I would not
consider myself paranoid when you compare it to
those who spoke of things like fear of getting
fired due to a minority in the fandom.
(Additional sidenote: It does strike me strange
as folks work themselves into a frothing fear of
being labeled as perverted due to a few
individuals, some folks had to live with labels
from the day they were born. Interesting to see
the shoe on the other foot. )
Farlo
I see ... so the BF are like NAMBLA, except less of a problem.
Thanks!
Farlo
> That was the first time I ever brought it up. And as a example of
>what some people consider 'forward thinking' and others think is just
>sick.
Brian cleared it up. BF are like NAMBLA but mean well, and BF are
organized, unlike the random pedophile or beastialist.
Thanks again, Brian.
Hangdog
From:
"chance wolf" <timbe...@wheeldog.net>
Organization:
Why didn't Leakey excavate Loamhedge instead?
"We did have a Woodhenge here, but it rotted..."
--Flanders & Swann, "Stonehenge"
M. Mitchell Marmel
>
> sluna wrote:
>
> > That was the first time I ever brought it up. And as a example of
> >what some people consider 'forward thinking' and others think is just
> >sick.
>
> Brian cleared it up. BF are like NAMBLA but mean well, and BF are
> organized, unlike the random pedophile or beastialist.
In the same way Farlo's sort of like John Wayne Gacy, only without the
clown suit, right?
(And Farlo, if you do decide to protest, PKB to ya.)
-MMM-
Barry Gold
Those evil KKK types want to kill all the blacks. I just want to
drive them out of town, so I must be OK.
[Cinnabar, invoking Godwin's law...]
In article <E8D11D4EE0EA6214.8DE19948...@lp.airnews.net>,
Hangdog <peter....@pdq.net> wrote:
>Burned Fur's been trying to clean up this fandom for about three years
>now. We take a lot of heat for this, most of it from people who want
>the fandom to stay dirty--and some from people who want to see it
>destroyed entirely.
>
>The following statement was posted by Mr. Sonny "Kobus" Windstrup to
>another open (though moderated) online forum. As that puts it in the
>public domain, I have no qualms about reposting t here, in its
>entirety.
>
>You'll note that he makes many of the same observations as Burned Fur
>does, but he comes to an entirely different conclusion. Hence, I
>suppose, his evident dislike for Burned Fur: we want to save the
>fandom, he wants to destroy it.
>
>
>> I still toddle around here on Yerf. I sometimes contribute dubious
>> etchings, and on sporadic occasions I even post comments that in
>> most cases were meant to be helpful in one way or another. That should
>> tell you right there that I'm not working real hard to 'undo' this site.
[snip]
>> ... Good riddance. If the media CAN speed things up with choice
>> articles like the one served this week, maybe they'll help us pass the word:
>>
>> "Furry Fandom is fucked up beyond repair and must be EUTHANIZED."
--
Finger bg...@nyx10.nyx.net for public key
Brian Henderson
>I see ... so the BF are like NAMBLA, except less of a problem.
Well, we should have known you couldn't figure out something in plain
English.
-Brian
Brian Henderson
wrote:
>If you think that even if we burned all the erotica (and later, the
>artists that drew them) will improve the image of the fandom, bear in
>mind that mundanes will still regard us as freaks, simply because of the
>fact that we're grown men and women who like to look at cartoon animals, period.
I'm not even interested in the mundanes. All the other fandoms look
at us like we're freaks!
-Brian
Hangdog
> >
> > sluna wrote:
> >
> > > That was the first time I ever brought it up. And as a example of
> > >what some people consider 'forward thinking' and others think is just
> > >sick.
> >
> > Brian cleared it up. BF are like NAMBLA but mean well, and BF are
> > organized, unlike the random pedophile or beastialist.
Hey, NAMBLA lame! I win again! <nails Farlo's hide to the wall>
Hangdog
> Lessee if I get this corectly, Hangdog...
>
> Those evil KKK types want to kill all the blacks. I just want to
> drive them out of town, so I must be OK.
*sigh*
I'll pass your comment on to the African-American members of Burned Fur, who will
probably snort derisively before ignoring you.
Fuckwit.
--Hangdog, Burned Fur
Farlo
>Farlo wrote:
>> Brian cleared it up. BF are like NAMBLA but mean well, and BF are
>> organized, unlike the random pedophile or beastialist.
>
>In the same way Farlo's sort of like John Wayne Gacy, only without the
>clown suit, right?
Sick ...
One must wonder why MMM has such a ready memory for infamous pedophiles.
Perhaps it is a BF membership requirement?
That is just speculation, you know.
Farlo
>Hey, NAMBLA lame! I win again! <nails Farlo's hide to the wall>
Tonight, I skip dinner ... =P
I shall crush his little fantasy of me, a wall, and him:
"With a knife and fork is the only way that I'll touch pork".
Lest that not discourage him, this surely will:
"I am over 18, and in fact, over THIRTY".
Heehee ... eat it up, sparky.
--
Farlo
Urban fey dragon
m>^_^<m
PS
"No, I will not let you call me DADDY".
Farlo
Hey, Brian, you made the connection to NAMBLA. If you did not like the
similarities between NAMBLA and the BF, then maybe YOU should not have
brought it up. Thank you for solidly linking your name, and the BF, to a
disgusting topic like pedophilia. MMM is currently doing his best to prove
his ready ability to name infamous pedos, which is a dubious skill at best.
Doug Winger
<0DF15B2DEA5E3425.7B4A70D5...@lp.airnews.net>, Hangdog
<peter....@pdq.net> wrote:
Metaphor. Look it up. Asshole.
- Doug
Don Sanders
<0DF15B2DEA5E3425.7B4A70D51FB09240.30D5886E83A337F
0...@lp.airnews.net>, peter....@pdq.net says...
Ever thought of passing that comment to those
African-American who are not members of Burned
Fur?
I guess not.
--
Don Sanders.
Former RoadKill Fur
Email dsan...@future.dreamscape.com
Hangdog
Hyperbole masquerading as metaphor.
Go draw some more herms, douche bag.
Doug Winger
<E30A9E127073A09C.30377E06...@lp.airnews.net>, Hangdog
<peter....@pdq.net> wrote:
Thanks. You won a bet for me.
- Doug
Ben_Raccoon
> Thanks. You won a bet for me.
>
>
> - Doug
Lemme guess, you bet that he would be insulting? Not a hard bet to win.
--
For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered. - Harlan
Ellison.
Shameless website plug. :) http://www.furnation.com/ben_raccoon/
Hangdog
> In article
> <E30A9E127073A09C.30377E06...@lp.airnews.net>, Hangdog
> <peter....@pdq.net> wrote:
>
> > Doug Winger wrote:
> >
> > > In article
> > > <0DF15B2DEA5E3425.7B4A70D5...@lp.airnews.net>,
> > > Hangdog
> > > <peter....@pdq.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Barry Gold wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Lessee if I get this corectly, Hangdog...
> > > > >
> > > > > Those evil KKK types want to kill all the blacks. I just want to
> > > > > drive them out of town, so I must be OK.
> > > >
> > > > *sigh*
> > > >
> > > > I'll pass your comment on to the African-American members of Burned
> > > > Fur,
> > > > who will
> > > > probably snort derisively before ignoring you.
> > > >
> > > > Fuckwit.
> > > >
> > > > --Hangdog, Burned Fur
> > > >
> > >
> > > Metaphor. Look it up. Asshole.
> >
> > Hyperbole masquerading as metaphor.
> >
> > Go draw some more herms, douche bag.
> >
>
> Thanks. You won a bet for me.
Oh? Get to fuck somebody else's wife?
Doug Winger
<4C1AAE517E3C3339.43666ECC...@lp.airnews.net>, Hangdog
<peter....@pdq.net> wrote:
[SNIP}
> > Thanks. You won a bet for me.
>
> Oh? Get to fuck somebody else's wife?
>
No, just proved to someone that your comprehension of what's written suffers
horribly when someone either uses the word "bestiality" somewhere in their
post or holds Burned Fur up in a less than flattering light. Also, I'd
wagered that you'd throw a hissy-fit that you got caught out misinterpreting
what was written again and go into pitching a tandtrum and retreat to
schoolyard insults and behavior. Further, I wagered that you'd miss my
gratuitous use of "asshole" as comment upon your gratuitous use of "fuckwit"
and resort to personal insult, though that was a side bet.
"What? He called Burned Fur racist? The fool... We're _certainly_ not
racist! I'll show him..." Hyperbole or metaphor, you got it wrong, and likely
will never admit to it. That inability to admit that you made a mistake or got
the facts wrong but instead turn to vehemently attacking anyone that you
imagine doesn't agree 100% with your pronouncement, or the person that brings
your mistaken interpretation to your attention, is your worst trait (and
you're certainly not alone in that). Your second one is that you seem to short
out when those above topics show up, and seem to lose all sense of logic and
ability to comprehend anything the slightest bit abstract or metaphorical.
Barring similar occasions, I find you a entertaining and thoughtful writer
and hardly in danger of hitting my newly aquired killfile. I find you normally
a rational and humorous poster, enjoyable to read- when the above mentioned
behavior is not present. Then you flash upon some key trigger subject and
suddenly turn into a raving twit a la Jekyl and Hyde. Personally, I think
you're capable of better than that.
If I'd though you simply some nitwit incapable of comprehending simple
metaphor I'd've simply ignored you. However, I know you're capable of
understanding, so you got called on it.
- Doug
-"Yeah, your Daddy's."- SOP Junior High School Retort
Farlo
> If I'd though you simply some nitwit incapable of comprehending simple
>metaphor I'd've simply ignored you. However, I know you're capable of
>understanding, so you got called on it.
That is certainly optimistic. Good luck on your 'appeal to reason', I am
off to bed. Got a cold, and it is late.
Akai
I'm gonna have to agree with Hangdog on this one (never thought I'd say
that).
Trying to draw a comparison between BF's ambition to clean up the fandom
and the old bogeyman of racism (and homophobia for that matter) is
intellectually dishonest.
The BF's are not trying to drive out a group of people because of what
they are by birth but because of how they behave (especially in public)
which is a matter of choice and personal discretion.
--
-Akai
"And each day I learn just a little bit more,
I don't know why but I do know what for,
If we're all going somewhere let's get there soon,
This song's got no title just words and a tune."
-This Song Has No Title,
Elton John
Brian Henderson
>Trying to draw a comparison between BF's ambition to clean up the fandom
>and the old bogeyman of racism (and homophobia for that matter) is
>intellectually dishonest.
You really can't expect any better of them, can you? After all, if
they couldn't misrepresent the other side, they wouldn't have an
argument to begin with.
-Brian
Brian Henderson
wrote:
>I believe this point's been made by Brian (Who I find I am agreeing on
>with respect to a lot of things), but there's a line between accepting
>and associating. His stamp-collection analogy comes to mind.
Honestly, I could care less what they do. Just do it in an
appropriate place. And guess what? Furry conventions, or in public
places is not appropriate. I'm really sorry that these people have no
clue about social propriety. Maybe it's about time someone educated
them.
-Brian
Brian Henderson
>Hey, Brian, you made the connection to NAMBLA. If you did not like the
>similarities between NAMBLA and the BF, then maybe YOU should not have
>brought it up. Thank you for solidly linking your name, and the BF, to a
>disgusting topic like pedophilia. MMM is currently doing his best to prove
>his ready ability to name infamous pedos, which is a dubious skill at best.
And which similarities are these? The fact that they appeared in the
same sentence? Let's see just where the similarities lie, shall we?
NAMBLA wants to gain respect and acceptance for their perversion. BF
wants to eliminate perversions from the public face of furry fandom.
ALFers want to gain acceptance for their perversions.
Nope, that doesn't work, does it? Let's try another.
NAMBLA wants their own place in society where they can feel accepted
and happy and not put down. BF wants furry fandom to be a place that
is open and friendly to *ALL* ages and *ALL* furry fans. ALFers went
off and created their own NG where they could feel accepted and happy
and not put down.
Nope. Sorry, just doesn't work.
Farlo, you're an absolute joke. You feel like you have to lie and
misrepresent people to get anywhere, when in reality, you're just a
member of a perverse group of people, no better than NAMBLA.
Wait a second. At least NAMBLA doesn't have to lie. So you're worse
than NAMBLA. And that's pretty damn sad.
-Brian
slu...@earthlink.net
>
> sluna wrote:
>
> > That was the first time I ever brought it up. And as a example of
> >what some people consider 'forward thinking' and others think is just
> >sick.
>
> Brian cleared it up. BF are like NAMBLA but mean well, and BF are
> organized, unlike the random pedophile or beastialist.
Huh?
How are BF like NAMBLA? I never heard that one before.
slu...@earthlink.net
> First time for you, countless times for quite a
> few who frequent this newsgroup. I would not
> consider myself paranoid when you compare it to
> those who spoke of things like fear of getting
> fired due to a minority in the fandom.
That's still rather paranoid.
Why is it, when these people (who are obviously Furry) who open
themselves up for national attention, are suddenly pariahs of the same
fandom they profess to eat, sleep and breathe?
Though, if they thought this would make everbody suddenly
understand and appreciate Furry fandom then they were a bit naive.
I mean, if you can't take what the world at large is going to think
of you when your 'secret hobby' is outed then maybe it ain't such a
great place for you afterall, is it?
That said, if the worse thing they do is have sex with their plush
animals, then there's nothing really to be alarmed over. They're not
actually hurting anyone or anything afterall. One has to wonder about
their tact though, in that they seem to rather enjoy sharing this
uh... hobby rather openly.
I couldn't hang around with someone who can't or won't realize the
meaning of the word discretion.
Doug Winger
> Don Sanders wrote:
>
> > First time for you, countless times for quite a
> > few who frequent this newsgroup. I would not
> > consider myself paranoid when you compare it to
> > those who spoke of things like fear of getting
> > fired due to a minority in the fandom.
>
> That's still rather paranoid.
>
> Why is it, when these people (who are obviously Furry) who open
> themselves up for national attention, are suddenly pariahs of the same
> fandom they profess to eat, sleep and breathe?
>
There lies the crux of this biscuit. The thing is, the things they are
professing are not part of the Furry Fandom.
"Whoa! Strong Stuff there, Doug!" you say. Simple truth, really.
Distinguishing between the Furry Fandom and the Furry Lifestyle isn't that
hard. They're very much seperate things, each valid in and of itself. They're
related, but only in a very distant fashion.
HOWEVER, there's a great deal of overlap of interests and of people freely
visiting between the two camps. Some Fans are also Lifestylers (and
vice-versa, of course). Some parts of one fit the other very easily, being
almost entirely interchangeable. In fact, unless you look carefully, the
things can look identical. The end-use is a little different, though.
The grand foo-foo-raw you see all about you here is caused by that. Some are
deathly afraid that they'll be mistaken for the 'other', as there's very
little obvious difference to the casual observer's quick peek. They can also
blend together- on an individual basis- with a person being part of each,
blurring that distinction in their case.
They each fall under the much larger umbrella term of 'Furry', but are
distinct things. Maintaining that distinction is what folks are going all
upset over, to the point of irrationality. It also leads to to a lot of people
asking, "What IS furry?" and getting totally different answers.
- Doug
Sarenthalanos
"Dr. Cat" <c...@sullivan.realtime.net> wrote in message
news:3a91d...@feed1.realtime.net...
> I mean really, how could you fail to be happy when you're always wearing
> one shirt or another which is so clearly in an exuberant mood itself? I
> think he's onto something there! Maybe the bunnies help too, I dunno.
Bunnies might help, but I do think it's the shirts.
I mean, who can take themselves seriously (or too seriously) when they
resemble a walking fruit salad? :-D
> : I think the Furry Fandom is a very cool and fun place to be :)
>
> Or could we all be "obviously delusional"?
Obviously delusional, as the Chicken Littles would like us to join them in
screaming that the sky is falling. Interesting that they only cry that and
don't suggest anything helpful en ratio to their cries of foul. Of course,
I'm probably 'obviously delusional' in that too.
> (Disclaimer: If any canines still believe I hallucinated my entire career,
> Michael Pena, having met me in person, could possibly provide further
> evidence to the contrary. On the other paw, he's never actually seen me
> work. But then again, most of my coworkers haven't either. :X)
You're delusional, Doc. As always. Of course you forgot to pet someone's
ego beforehand, so that may play a role in it. I've seen your work over the
years, and if we're going by comparative works, you're a *somebody*.
> (Random thought: Hey where's MY hawaiian shirt at these days?)
Ditto.
Good to see you back, Doc.
David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#analogy
The extended analogy
The fallacy of the Extended Analogy often occurs when some suggested
general rule is being argued over. The fallacy is to assume that
mentioning two different situations, in an argument about a general
rule, constitutes a claim that those situations are analogous to
each other.
Here's real example from an online debate about anti-cryptography
legislation:
"I believe it is always wrong to oppose the law by breaking it."
"Such a position is odious: it implies that you would not have
supported Martin Luther King."
"Are you saying that cryptography legislation is as important as
the struggle for Black liberation? How dare you!"
--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
Free the Memes.
Farlo
Confirmed problem.
I cannot argue with fact. There were some images on that website which were
clearly of underage furries engaged in questionable sexual activites. This
sort of thing must be kept out of the American cons or we will pay for it,
no doubt about it.
Pretty stupid, IMO, to have that material so readily available without even
so much as a password, encryption or anything. Maybe the laws in New
Zealand are different, but where I live those items are grounds for arrest.
The site is registered to Colin Palmer (probably a pseudonym)out of
Auckland, New Zealand.
Farlo
>I'm sure I can find more, but I've got a mild case of strep right now and
>am not up to my usual cognitive ability.
Your argument about the BF is clearly wrong on several points, but the
website that you listed is problematic. I deal with fact. Speaking of
which, I have had this throat cold for about two days now .. if it is strep
I am blaming YOU ;)
Two days off work and I have a cold ... bleagh!!
Farlo
>And which similarities are these?
You are not worthy of argument with someone like myself. You and Campbell
lack the higher level of cognitive function to do more than dangle on any
hook that I throw out to you.
I am through playing with you, and must waste time with other pursuits.
Farlo
>His majesty, Lord Farlo wrote:
(Finally! Recognition! *beams*)
Read the previous quoted sentence, and several of Brian's posts.
He worked himself (and the BF) pretty solidly into NAMBLA's corner
by an extremely weak contrast between NAMBLA and the BF, IMO.
Between him and hangdog, the BF need no enemies.
Check out F32k's post - despite the retarded whining of the BF on this
newsgroup, it looks like F32k actually *did* find a legit problem.
boojum the brown bunny
<905054963...@news.fysh.org>:
boojum answers, "Laws on what constitutes pedophilia are different all
acrossed the world. I suspect that where the web pages are hosted the
drawing of nonhuman children having sex is not illegal. Thats a
suspicion."
"I was about to comment on Further Confusions policy on such things,
however thats not my place to say." He continues. "I don't believe that
ANY US convention, however, would allow material depicting underage furries
having sex in the art show. I doubt they would allow it in the dealers
room either if they are aware of it. I don't know of other steps a con
could take to prevent people from bringing it on their own and showing it
in private rooms. Until a law is broken it is very difficult to exclude
someone. So until it came to the attention of the con that something like
that was going on there wouldn't be much they could do."
He smiles a bit. "So the best way to hand it is if you see ANYONE
doing something you think is illegal, inform ConOps. Don't expect them to
deal with something they don't know about. Also, don't expect the laws to
be the same as where you are from. You can even travel from one place in
California to another and have a change in what is and isn't lawfull."
boojum considers. "The same works the other way around. If you are
bringing something that MIGHT be questionable, ask the constaff if it's
legal where the con is being held. Don't trust that the laws will be the
same as where you live."
The brown bunny shrugs. "We are a free society, this gives us a
certain requirement to be aware of the lawfullness of our actions. This
means that some people will act unlawfully, but until they do there isn't
much you can do to stop them from attending a public event."
boojum the brown bunny
Farlo
>Trying to draw a comparison between BF's ambition to clean up the fandom
>and the old bogeyman of racism (and homophobia for that matter) is
>intellectually dishonest.
I cannot qualify the "racist" argument, but as for the "Homophobia" - did
not a burned fur bring up that specter all by his lonesome? Why, it was
only a couple days ago, and without any prompting. You will have to look
for it yourself, what with Deja being gone and the BF being correspondingly
more bold now that their past history is easier to hide.
As a side note:
I would be more concerned with BF revisionism and the loss of Deja, except
that several of the BF continue to act retarded in the here-and-now.
M. Mitchell Marmel
>
> M. Mitchell Marmel wrote:
>
> >Farlo wrote:
> >> Brian cleared it up. BF are like NAMBLA but mean well, and BF are
> >> organized, unlike the random pedophile or beastialist.
> >
> >clown suit, right?
>
> Sick ...
>
> One must wonder why MMM has such a ready memory for infamous pedophiles.
> Perhaps it is a BF membership requirement?
Welp, I have YOUR name memorized...
> That is just speculation, you know.
Same here. :D
-MMM-
Ben_Raccoon
Farlo
>My suggestion would run to clam chowder and lots of fresh-ground black
>pepper. That's my personal remedy to everything I've ever come up with.
MMmm... good plan! =)
Farlo
>Farlo wrote:
>>
>> M. Mitchell Marmel wrote:
>>
>> >Farlo wrote:
>> >> Brian cleared it up. BF are like NAMBLA but mean well, and BF are
>> >> organized, unlike the random pedophile or beastialist.
>> >
>> >In the same way Farlo's sort of like John Wayne Gacy, only without the
>> >clown suit, right?
>>
>> Sick ...
>>
>> One must wonder why MMM has such a ready memory for infamous pedophiles.
>> Perhaps it is a BF membership requirement?
>
>Welp, I have YOUR name memorized...
We are all so very proud of you ...
Look everybody, MMM made a joke!
Let's all laugh at ... er, "with" him.
Don Sanders
ak...@teleport.com says...
>
> I'm gonna have to agree with Hangdog on this one (never thought I'd say
> that).
> Trying to draw a comparison between BF's ambition to clean up the fandom
> and the old bogeyman of racism (and homophobia for that matter) is
> intellectually dishonest.
Maybe. Perhaps my overall vision of things is a
bit narrow. Then again it may be wise to ask a
victim of racism of there is any comparison.
>
> The BF's are not trying to drive out a group of people because of what
> they are by birth but because of how they behave (especially in public)
> which is a matter of choice and personal discretion.
>
True, not actively, but it seems that way under
the surface. In driving out the bad element, they
also seem to be driving away others not classified
in that element, or so I think since it is my
opinion.
--
Don Sanders.
Former RoadKill Fur
Email dsan...@future.dreamscape.com
Darn those 441 posting errors, can anyone help?
slu...@earthlink.net
The burdon of proof is on you, I'm afraid. I just don't see it.
BF and NAMBLA, what I know of either of them, are nothing alike.
The BF want decency, descretion and tact. Very badly. Very, very
badly! NAMBLA are just a group of pedophiles trying to legitimize
their perversion. Bleh.
slu...@earthlink.net
> You are not worthy of argument with someone like myself. You and Campbell
> lack the higher level of cognitive function to do more than dangle on any
> hook that I throw out to you.
>
> I am through playing with you, and must waste time with other pursuits.
Don't respond to him then like this then, if you think he's beneath
you.
It looks petty.
Don Sanders
slu...@earthlink.net says...
*** Snipped ***
Ok, tell you what, you all can form your lynch
mobs, perform your witch-hunts, and whatever
between both camps. I tried to interject some
sort of reason in this discussion, I have not
bullied my way into these threads like some folks.
Fine, I can see that the solution to the
transgressions made by Galen and Ostrich is to let
you folks handle it, I'm done.
--
Don Sanders.
Former RoadKill Fur
Email dsan...@future.dreamscape.com
(Not going away angry, just going away.)
Farlo
> BF and NAMBLA, what I know of either of them, are nothing alike.
>The BF want decency, descretion and tact.
BF want to talk about NAMBLA, pedohphilia and beastiality like it is their
favorite hobby or something. That is hardly decent, discrete or tactful!
>NAMBLA are just a group of pedophiles trying to legitimize
>their perversion. Bleh.
NAMBLA does not post here, but BF bring it here. I am beginning to wonder
how closely these two groups are linked.
Farlo
> Don't respond to him then like this then, if you think he's beneath
>you.
There is the need for clarity, if not closure. =)
Hangdog
> In article
> <4C1AAE517E3C3339.43666ECC...@lp.airnews.net>, Hangdog
> <peter....@pdq.net> wrote:
>
> [SNIP}
>
> > > Thanks. You won a bet for me.
> >
> > Oh? Get to fuck somebody else's wife?
> >
>
> No, just proved to someone that your comprehension of what's written suffers
> horribly when someone either uses the word "bestiality" somewhere in their
> post or holds Burned Fur up in a less than flattering light. Also, I'd
> wagered that you'd throw a hissy-fit that you got caught out misinterpreting
> what was written again and go into pitching a tandtrum and retreat to
> schoolyard insults and behavior. Further, I wagered that you'd miss my
> gratuitous use of "asshole" as comment upon your gratuitous use of "fuckwit"
> and resort to personal insult, though that was a side bet.
>
> "What? He called Burned Fur racist? The fool... We're _certainly_ not
> racist! I'll show him..." Hyperbole or metaphor, you got it wrong, and likely
> will never admit to it. That inability to admit that you made a mistake or got
> the facts wrong but instead turn to vehemently attacking anyone that you
> imagine doesn't agree 100% with your pronouncement, or the person that brings
> your mistaken interpretation to your attention, is your worst trait (and
> you're certainly not alone in that). Your second one is that you seem to short
> out when those above topics show up, and seem to lose all sense of logic and
> ability to comprehend anything the slightest bit abstract or metaphorical.
>
> Barring similar occasions, I find you a entertaining and thoughtful writer
> and hardly in danger of hitting my newly aquired killfile. I find you normally
> a rational and humorous poster, enjoyable to read- when the above mentioned
> behavior is not present. Then you flash upon some key trigger subject and
> suddenly turn into a raving twit a la Jekyl and Hyde. Personally, I think
> you're capable of better than that.
>
> If I'd though you simply some nitwit incapable of comprehending simple
> metaphor I'd've simply ignored you. However, I know you're capable of
> understanding, so you got called on it.
>
> - Doug
>
> -"Yeah, your Daddy's."- SOP Junior High School Retort
Haw. Even at 70, my mom's not so desperate as to shag the likes of you, hermboy.
So take the money you won from your little bet and go hire yourself a whore: lack
o' pussy made you brave, boy.
Doug Winger
<259E6AF8D78F1BEE.C81DF08D...@lp.airnews.net>, Hangdog
<peter....@pdq.net> wrote:
> Doug Winger wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <4C1AAE517E3C3339.43666ECC...@lp.airnews.net>,
> > Hangdog
> > <peter....@pdq.net> wrote:
[snip]- Doug
> >
> > -"Yeah, your Daddy's."- SOP Junior High School Retort
>
> Haw. Even at 70, my mom's not so desperate as to shag the likes of you,
> hermboy.
>
> So take the money you won from your little bet and go hire yourself a
> whore: lack
> o' pussy made you brave, boy.
There's your problem; you have a severe irony deficiency.
Have a good one!
- Doug
Brian Henderson
<Ben_R...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>I believe your point was just made, Brian.
Of course. You will notice that Farlo doesn't bother posting anything
like... evidence, right? That's because he has nothing but mindless
invective. He's more like a chihuahua nipping at your ankles. Sure
he's loud, but he's all bark, nothing to back it up.
-Brian
Alan Kennedy
> Right. Well, that'll be one more lawsuit for me to wait for, in addition
to those
> threatened (explicitly or implicitly) by Trigem, Random, Sonny Windstrup,
and
> Betty Roget.
>
> Sonny, care to make a go of *this?*
>
> --Hangdog, not holding his breath...
*snickers*
You'd feel like dogshit the day the suite does hit your hand, and I'm still
waiting for the day that someone does file one against you.
OH well, then again, that day will happen about the time that the BF's
actually pool together and do something constructive.
--
Alan Kennedy [TriGem Olandarinse]
EMAIL : tri...@portalofevil.com_REMOVEGIBBERISH
YAHOO : goldanthrowolf & trigem_olandarinse
WWW : http://www.furnation.com/trigem
ICQ : 8781052
jason creature murdock
My reputation was built and hard earned. Yes, I'm known as a complete
and total nut case in the fandom because of my actions, but I live
with that and don't let it get to me. My friends know me, and for the
most part respect me. My boss hired me based on my resume and kept me
after the 30 day grace period because of my actions here at work.
As for what people I don't know think about me? Hell with them. If
they can effect my life, then they'll do what they want no matter
what. From the President to the drunk driving like a nut down the
road head on into me, I have no control over them, either their
actions or what they think. Yes, I worry about what my boss thinks of
me, but I keep my personal life and business life seperate. When I
ask for time off to go to AC, MFM, FC, Otakon, or something else, I
tell him I am going to a convention, nothing more. I care what my
mom thinks of me, but I don't tell her everything in my life. She
asks me what goes on in the fandom, I tell her what I do and care
about in the fandom. I don't tell her about folks who are into
getting it on with a horse or a dog. I don't tell her about things
that are none of mine or her concern.
jason "creature" murdock
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:40:58 -0800, Brian Henderson <cep...@ev1.net>
wrote:
>On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:04:15 GMT, jmur...@verio.net (jason "creature"
>murdock) wrote:
>
>>I have a question for everyone here who is getting their grundies in a
>>twist: Why are you letting someoen else define you?
>
>It isn't about being defined, it's about being slandered. I don't
>know about you, but I care about my reputation. I care about what
>people think about me. And in the real world, when you crap in your
>hand and throw it at the wall, it sticks. Like it or not, *ALL* of us
>were hurt a little the day the VF article came out. Even if your boss
>doesn't read it this time, what about the next article that comes out?
>Do you have to worry about your friends who might have read it? What
>about people you might want to talk to about furry fandom? Do you
>have to completely hide what you enjoy because other people are
>idiots?
>
>-Brian
>
Brian Henderson
<ga...@velocity.net> wrote:
>Somehow, I think your existing reputation is earned by your own choice of
>actions, just as most people's are. It is not due to anything that happens
>among, or because of, other furries. I certainly wouldn't trade reputations
>with you for any reason!
You might wish that were the case, but it isn't. If I go to a
non-furry convention and mention to someone that I'm a furry, their
first thought of me will be "Oh my god, you screw animals?" I did
absolutely nothing to bring on that reaction. It's guilt by
association.
>If you think furry fandom is so full of crap, why do you keep jumping back
>in. It appears that you like the be in close proximity to what you see as
>crap. If not, don't jump in, wallow in it, and complain when it sticks!
Because I enjoy furries. It's what the fandom is about. You, on the
other hand, are a freak and a deviant. If you want to enjoy
anthropomorphics, you're more than welcome to do so. If you're going
to spend your time fucking a cocker spaniel and spouting off to the
press, you're not.
-Brian
jason creature murdock
wrote:
>Because I enjoy furries. It's what the fandom is about. You, on the
>other hand, are a freak and a deviant. If you want to enjoy
>anthropomorphics, you're more than welcome to do so. If you're going
>to spend your time fucking a cocker spaniel and spouting off to the
>press, you're not.
>
>-Brian
Argument lost. Thank you for playing our game though.
jason
jason creature murdock
>> twist: Why are you letting someoen else define you?
>
>that review our portfolios, consider us for promotions, order the comics
>at the stores we frequent, and generally run the world, that's all.
Lets see, 90% of editors don't give a damn about your political or
social ties. If so, Frank Miller and Lynn Varley wouldn't be working
in comics because they live together and are unmarried. Those that
consider you for promotion are only worried about what they see on the
job, and if you let your personal life get in the way of your job
life, you've got serious problems. As for the comic stores, I have
yet to meet a comic shop owner/manager (speaking as a former one
myself) who gave a damn about what you ordered as long as your money
is legal and you are over 18 for ordering the adult stuff.
>> You seem to think Vanity Fair defines you because it's a national
>> publication. Like Loaded, the Vanity Fair article was nothing more
>> then an attempt to sell copies.
>
>Yes, they sell copies: 1.28 million copies in the united states alone.
>Want a visual aid? Picture this: Assuming that every issue of VF is 1/4"
>thick, they would form a stack 26,666 feet tall. You would have to stack
>over fifteen Sears Towers to get an equivalent height. And that's just for
>ONE month. Want a comparison? Assuming that each issue of FURRLOUGH is
>also 1/4 of an inch thick, you would get a stack 62.5 feet tall, or just
>over six stories.
>
>And the really unsettling part? That's just the US edition. I wonder how
>many languages this article has been translated into...
So? Compairing a magazine to a comic book for US distribution is like
compairing a horse to a kangaroo for transportation.
>> Don't worry about it. Those that read Vanity Fair, in my opinion,
>> don't matter in the grander scheme of things. My boss doesn't read
>> it, my fellow employees don't read it, expect for maybe a secritary
>> and a couple people in HR.
>
>In this wired-in, everyone-has-access-to-everything age in which we live,
>this is an extremely anachronistic attitude to take. How many people on
>this news group read this article before the issue it was in even hit the
>stands? What's to prevent a prospective employer from typing 'furry' into
>a search engine and having this pop up? What's to stop someone from
>sending a 'check these freaks out!' email to twenty of his closest friends
>with a link to the article?
Where on your resume do you have "I am a furry"? If you do, I'd be
supprised if you are emplyed at all for using that filler. If not,
why the hell are you letting it come up in the interview? Remember,
the interview is an example of creative bullshitting.
>> Let your actions speak for you. If someone at work reads it, point
>> out to them in facts and let them know how badly the article was
>> slanted. If they think you are lying and that the article is true, I
>> think it's time to realize that person or persons has more problems
>> then you do.
>
>And if that person who 'has more problems than I do' just happens to be my
>supervisor? Or the guy who does my performance evaluations? Or the young
>woman who reviews my material for publication? Or is the dean at the art
>school I'm applying to? What do I do then that doesn't sound like a
>whitewash?
Again, why are you letting your personal life overlap with your
professional or student life? I work to pay for my personal life, but
I keep the two very seperate, unless I'm paying bills and am taking 20
minutes out to write checks to pay off the phone and electric company
at work.
>> As for Ostrich and Galen Foxwolfie. I have met Ostrich, through
>> several friends of mine. Didn't know he was a lifestyler, didn't care
>> and still don't. He is a good guy and pleasent to be around, simple
>> as that.
>
>My beef with Ostrich is simple: He should have known better. He's
>thirty-nine years old, and has been in this fandom for a while. He was on
>the Midwest Furfest staff at the time this article was written, for
>chrissake. He should have bloody well KNOWN how this guy was going to
>slant this article. Or maybe his lust to see his name in print overpowered
>his common sense, I don't know.
I agree with you there. We should all know better. In this day and
age, no one, be it some git who can't get anywhere near the front page
of a local town with a population of 50 newpaper or Peter Jennings, is
above slanting something to make it look bad.
>
>> Finally, like Loaded, this will all blow over and the collective will
>> go from hating just Galen Foxwolfie and Ostrich, to hating everyone
>> again.
>
>It doesn't 'blow over,' it just adds another straw to the metaphorical
>camel's back. Sooner or later that back will break, and take this entire
>scene with it. Ask the Confurence staff about how many Media types they've
>turned away from this years CF, or the rumor that HUSTLER is nosing
>around. How about the camera crew from HBOs REAL SEX?
I doubt it. I honestly do. The furry fandom as a whole wont go away
for a long time. Sure, you'll get people that will go away, and but
others will replace them.
>> This is a fandom, folks.
>
>This is the only thing in you post that I agree with. Yes, it IS a fandom.
>A place where people who have similar tastes in entertainment. Not a haven
>for fetishists. And being a member of a fannish subculture does not give
>you a license to ignore the rules of the MAIN culture.
>
>> We've all got the same right to be here.
>
>Oh, okay. So your right to swing your metaphorical fist doesn't stop where
>my nose starts. Thanks for clearing that up.
>
>Michael Campbell
>
You choose to read and reply. I am just doing the same.
jason "creature" murdock
Hangdog
> In article
> <259E6AF8D78F1BEE.C81DF08D...@lp.airnews.net>, Hangdog
> <peter....@pdq.net> wrote:
>
> > Doug Winger wrote:
> >
> > > In article
> > > <4C1AAE517E3C3339.43666ECC...@lp.airnews.net>,
> > > Hangdog
> > > <peter....@pdq.net> wrote:
>
> [snip]- Doug
>
> > >
> > > -"Yeah, your Daddy's."- SOP Junior High School Retort
> >
> > Haw. Even at 70, my mom's not so desperate as to shag the likes of you,
> > hermboy.
> >
> > So take the money you won from your little bet and go hire yourself a
> > whore: lack
> > o' pussy made you brave, boy.
>
> There's your problem; you have a severe irony deficiency.
I understand irony perfectly well. I just ignore it when it's done poorly.
> Have a good one!
Just did. But I didn't have any of your art handy, so I had to make do with the
usual 2-ply unscented roll...
Charles Melville
FoxWolfie Galen wrote:
> The fandom is about furries.
No it's not. It's about anthropomorphic arts. Even Xxydex will at least
tell you that it's about anthropomorphics. (He does it all the time, even when
he -isn't- just saying to obfuscate facts or otherwise derail arguments.) At
best, the fandom is -comprised- of furries, if one assumes the word to mean a
participant in the fandom. (And we all know how dangerous assuming anything can
be.)
> I'm a furry and so are many of the people you
> complain about.
I'm not. I disowned the title (word, nomenclature, whatever) as soon as it
became obvious that the word had become tainted in the eyes of outsiders, and
even to many of ourselves. I'm a fan. I participate in the fandom. I'm a
writer and a cartoonist. But I am no furry.
--
-Chuck Melville-
http://www.zipcon.net/~cpam/index.htm
Charles Melville
Brian Henderson wrote:
I seldom killfile... but Farlo was the first. He's still in that
list, too, going on two years now. He proved to be nothing other than
pointless and worthless. I wouldn't even know he was still there, except
for when folks refer to him, or quote him. Haven't much missed him,
either.
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen
>FoxWolfie Galen wrote:
>> I'm a furry and so are many of the people you
>> complain about.
>
>I'm not. I disowned the title (word, nomenclature, whatever) as
>soon as it became obvious that the word had become tainted in the
>eyes of outsiders, and even to many of ourselves.
You certainly post to alt.fan.furry an awful lot for someone who's disowned a
word that's supposedly become so tainted.
-:)
--
_________________________________________________
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen / Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC
Remember when furry fandom was about
anthropomorphic animals? It still is.
M. Mitchell Marmel
> I seldom killfile... but Farlo was the first. He's still in that
> list, too, going on two years now. He proved to be nothing other than
> pointless and worthless. I wouldn't even know he was still there, except
> for when folks refer to him, or quote him. Haven't much missed him,
> either.
Good point. Adios, Farlo. Adios, Xydexx. Say what you like about me;
I won't read it and I won't care. :D
--
============================================================================
M. Mitchell Marmel \ Scattered, smothered, covered, chunked,
Drexel University \ whipped, beaten, chained and pierced.
Department of Materials Engineering \ *THE BEST HASHBROWNS IN THE WORLD!*
Fibrous Materials Research Center \ marm...@dunx1.irt.drexel.edu
============================================================================
TaliVisions Homepage: http://www.pages.drexel.edu/grad/marmelmm/Talivisions/index.html
ICQ # 58305217
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen
>Good point. Adios, Farlo. Adios, Xydexx. Say what you like about me;
>I won't read it and I won't care. :D
Hmph. And after I took you out of my killfile, too. I guess we all make
mistakes.
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen
>BF wants to eliminate perversions from the public face of furry fandom.
False.
>ALFers want to gain acceptance for their perversions.
False.
>BF wants furry fandom to be a place that is open and friendly to
>*ALL* ages and *ALL* furry fans.
False.
>ALFers went off and created their own NG where they could feel
>accepted and happy and not put down.
Mostly true.
>You feel like you have to lie and
>misrepresent people to get anywhere
PKB.
jason creature murdock
wrote:
>> I'm a furry and so are many of the people you
>> complain about.
>
> I'm not. I disowned the title (word, nomenclature, whatever) as soon as it
>became obvious that the word had become tainted in the eyes of outsiders, and
>even to many of ourselves. I'm a fan. I participate in the fandom. I'm a
>writer and a cartoonist. But I am no furry.
>
Then as I said to a former customer who kept coming to the comic shop
after he gave comics "Why the hell are you here?"
jason "creature" murdock
David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
<slu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
[...]
> How are BF like NAMBLA? I never heard that one before.
There both pains in the ass?
--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
Free the Memes.