Editorials: Exciting, Dull, Controversial or Inflammatory?
Dwight J. Dutton
Rowrbrazzle is currently being torn apart from the inside , and has been for
some time, by political infighting.
Richard Chandler's editorials in Gallery tend to cause extensive internet
debate.
I seem to be as exciting as drying paint.
HUZZAH! is about to hit it's 20th anniversary (june 1999) and the most I've
ever heard out of this normally extremely vocal group is that I can't get the
staples through straight on every copy. This despite the fact that HUZZAH!
has a circulation as large as Gallery (200+) and my editorials are as long as
R. Chandlers.
I'm either a political genius or the most boring man alive.
Of course, I've been around since Confurence zero and there are people now
living at the "Prancing Skiltaire" who have no idea in hell who I am. So I
guess It's the latter.
I mean, most of the people I met at Comicon a few years ago asked me if
Rhudipurt was going to be late as a result of my motorcycle accident.
I said probably not, since I'm not Dwight DECKER. <sigh>
RebelSqurl
Congratulations on HUZZAH's forthcoming 20th anniversary, Dwight! Hope you
wind up celebrating another 20 years of relative peace among the insanity....
<G>
-- Jeff "REB" Pierce
Michael Russell (Netcom)
Howdy,
> Rowrbrazzle is currently being torn apart from the inside , and has been for
> some time, by political infighting.
So? With the exception of the 50+ artists who are a member of
'Brazzle, who in the "fandom" even sees this publication? At
least the fighting is contained within this private club, eh?
> Richard Chandler's editorials in Gallery tend to cause extensive internet
> debate.
The editorials I've seen do touch on subjects that some people
may find uncomfortable. I find most of his arguments are well
thought out, but they could, in a couple occassions, use a little
more tact in presentation. I don't always agree with what he
says, but they do make me think.
> I seem to be as exciting as drying paint.
Actually, Dwight, your editorials remind me more of the Lake
Woebegon stores of Garrison Kellor. In the recent #31, I could
almost feel like being in that truck with you as you spin the
tale of ConiFur and bust.
You make points and observations, but they are kept at the
observational level and not directed personally. I think the
fact they are not personally directed helps keep the controversy
away.
>
> HUZZAH! is about to hit it's 20th anniversary (june 1999) and the most I've
> ever heard out of this normally extremely vocal group is that I can't get the
> staples through straight on every copy. This despite the fact that HUZZAH!
> has a circulation as large as Gallery (200+) and my editorials are as long as
> R. Chandlers.
CONGRATS on 20 years!
I voted my support with my wallet; having renewed my subscription
through at least issue #37.
I love the cover on #31 (gee, I wonder why? *hee hee*)
--
Cheers - Mike "Flafox"
Staying "Tiny Toon'd":
Michael Russell # AS/400, AIX, and Multimedia
IBM Global Services # E-mail: mrus...@ix.netcom.com
Orlando, FL # or msru...@us.ibm.com
"The World of Vicki Fox" # http://people.delphi.com/msrussell
Timothy Fay
APA that started in February, 1992, can celebrate its 20th
anniversary in June, 1999? I guess my watch must be a little slow.
I can definitely sympathize with the challenges you face as an
editor: From 1988 to 1994 I was the editor of INK SPOTS: COMICS
FOR CARTOONISTS. So I wish you luck with your APA, HUZZAH!
ANTHROPOMORPHICS FOR ARTISTS. A rose by any other name, right? :)
-Tim
--
"Hey, ho -- let's go!" -Ramones
Jeff L. Eddy
>I seem to be as exciting as drying paint.
Well, I'd hardly think that trying to be "exciting" is a good focus of
one's efforts. Most of the editorials I've read by you have been pretty
even-handed and factual. Hardly what I'd call exciting, but certainly fair
and informative.
The only thing I've seen you do that tweaks the edge is the "worst of show"
awards for CF, but they seem to be SO bad that I doubt anyone would
disagree with you even there. (I can't really vouch, having never had the
time or inclination to travel 'cross the country for CF.)
>HUZZAH! is about to hit it's 20th anniversary (june 1999) and the most I've
>ever heard out of this normally extremely vocal group is that I can't get the
>staples through straight on every copy. This despite the fact that HUZZAH!
>has a circulation as large as Gallery (200+) and my editorials are as long as
>R. Chandlers.
And you're unhappy that there aren't people gunning for your reputation and
slandering your publication?
<Londo Mollari Voice> I should think NOT having flames directed at you is a
GOOD thing, no? </Londo Mollari Voice>
>Of course, I've been around since Confurence zero and there are people now
>living at the "Prancing Skiltaire" who have no idea in hell who I am. So I
>guess It's the latter.
Again, this is a BAD thing?
You've got a wonderful APA! I get a chuckle out of it every time I pick one
up. You're selling all the copies of the thing, breaking even, expanding
the membership, and have a group that actually ENJOYS interacting with each
other. (Or at least so it seems from the outside.) All things considered,
you should be extremely satisfied.
I've toyed with the idea of starting an Anthro Literary APA (if I thought
anyone would submit to it, much less read the thing). If I did, you bet I'd
use Huzzah! as a guideline for how to do it Right!
_______________________________________________________________________
J. L. Eddy (aka: "Brer" on FurToonia) <jle...@acciusa.com>
Story Stuff: <http://members.limitless.org/~waltzer/tftbu.html>
Jim Doolittle
Dutton) wrote:
> And there are more straight fanzines than ever, according to the
> Packrat list it looks like there are dozens of them. Makes me wonder where
> all of the material is coming from.
Without having looked at the list recently, I'm sure if it's completely
current. I know I collect only two--Yarf! and Pawprints--regularly, ever
since FurryPhile vanished. I'd bet that a lot of the 'zine's on that list
were one-shots, or limited runs.
-Jim
Dwight J. Dutton
fayxx001@delete..this..maroon.tc.umn.edu says...
>
>Congrats, Dwight! But, just out of curiosity, how is it that an
>APA that started in February, 1992, can celebrate its 20th
>anniversary in June, 1999? I guess my watch must be a little slow.
Ok, sure there was a 9 year gap between issues #1 and #2, but look at
any copy of HUZZAH! #1 and it's right there - June 1979.
I, of course, had nothing to do with it then, I revived the title in
1989.
Of course, if someone wanted to revive "Q" or "Vootie" they could make
a similar claim - provoided they could get enough of the original members to
come back to claim it really was the same book. There were 3 contributors to
HUZZAH! #1, and two are long gone, but we still have 33% or the original
contributors from 1979, so there is at least some lineage preserved
>
>I can definitely sympathize with the challenges you face as an
>editor: From 1988 to 1994 I was the editor of INK SPOTS: COMICS
>FOR CARTOONISTS.
I used to see Dave Kuhn's copies, since it was a pure APA and not
commercially available anywhere. Last I heard it was going to be handed off
to Phil Morrisey, who evidently backed out and then it went to Tom Foster (I
think? Is that right?) but then I lost track since there weren't any memebrs
I personally knew left in it.
I'd lost track of Rowrbrazzle the same way, but having it collated in
my house made it a little easier to get a look at a copy. The collation of
#59 only took 3 1/2 hours, a far cry from the collation of #25 that took, as I
recall, 2 1/2 DAYS.
Speaking of which, how many of the members-only APA's are left? I can
only think of Rowrbrazzle and perhaps FNC, though I did hear about an FNC
spinoff that was going to follow our pattern of supporting the book though
sold copies instead of member dues.
gr...@ibm.net
> Speaking of which, how many of the members-only APA's are left? I can
> only think of Rowrbrazzle and perhaps FNC, though I did hear about an FNC
> spinoff that was going to follow our pattern of supporting the book though
> sold copies instead of member dues.
The spinoff apa is NAF (North American Fur). I created it when I could no
longer run FNC due to time restraints 4 years ago caused by my move to the
US. NAF is run more or less just like FNC and does support itself through
sales. It is a members only apa.
(insert shameless plug here)
NAF is 18 months old and Issue #3 will be available to everyone through
Mailbox Books this November. If anyone is interested in knowing more about
NAF our web site is http://www.furry.com/NAF/
Paul Groulx (aka Growl)
-----------------------
Creator and Editor of NAF
Creator of FNC and former Editor
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Pelzig
> Speaking of which, how many of the members-only APA's are left? I can
> only think of Rowrbrazzle and perhaps FNC, though I did hear about an FNC
> spinoff that was going to follow our pattern of supporting the book though
> sold copies instead of member dues.
I'm currently the editor for the "Fire & Fur" APA, a members-only
artist/writer workshop style APA. It was started by Dwayne Ferguson of comic
"Hamster Vice" fame back in 1995 and, so far, has gone through ten issues and
two public issues ( to generate income to cover mailing costs and printing
needs for the membership ). It has a modest membership, currently standing at
about eight to ten members. At its height, there were almost twenty.
TCASF,
Ed "Pelzig" Dyer
pelz...@idt.net
Knechtschaft Studio/Limelight Publishing
Brenda Daverin
Eddy) wrote:
> On 13 Oct 1998 02:45:23 GMT, cus...@iname.com (Dwight J. Dutton) wrote:
>
> >Of course, I've been around since Confurence zero and there are people now
> >living at the "Prancing Skiltaire" who have no idea in hell who I am. So I
> >guess It's the latter.
>
> Again, this is a BAD thing?
I understand how he feels. I was one of the few women at one of the first
furry parties in American fandom, the one at BayCon 1986. I used to
publish a rather popular fanzine and contributed to other 'zines at the
time. Now, thanks to the vagaries of time (and I admit a fair chunk of
gafiation on my part), most of the furs reading this will wonder which
fanzine I'm talking about (FurNography; look it up in Fred Patten's
timeline) if not wonder who the freep I am. They surely won't know me by
my face. Dwight's in a slightly odder position, though. He's stayed more
visibly active all this time. The most I've done since FurNography bit the
dust thanks to my becoming homeless was spending a couple of years doing
stuff for Rowrbrazzle. I don't even do that now.
> I've toyed with the idea of starting an Anthro Literary APA (if I thought
> anyone would submit to it, much less read the thing). If I did, you bet I'd
> use Huzzah! as a guideline for how to do it Right!
Please oh please oh PLEASE do this!! I'm begging; can't you see me on my
knees begging? One of the reasons I let my membership in RB lapse was
because I felt like my tribs were drowning in a sea of artwork unless I
did my own. Frankly, for a writer, I make a half-decent artist. An anthro
lit APA would be such a nice thing...
--
Brenda Daverin
bdav...@best.com
"Usenet is just email with witnesses." -- Rob Hansen
Allen Kitchen
Brenda Daverin wrote in message ...
>I understand how he feels. I was one of the few women at one of the first
>furry parties in American fandom, the one at BayCon 1986.
I'm still learning names and faces, not to mention species. I'm not
familiar with you or your APA, but let this "newcomer" (if 3 years
active counts as new) say Hello and welcome back. It's good to
see people return, it really is. :)
>> I've toyed with the idea of starting an Anthro Literary APA (if I thought
>> anyone would submit to it, much less read the thing). If I did, you bet
I'd
>> use Huzzah! as a guideline for how to do it Right!
>
>Please oh please oh PLEASE do this!! I'm begging; can't you see me on my
>knees begging? One of the reasons I let my membership in RB lapse was
>because I felt like my tribs were drowning in a sea of artwork unless I
>did my own. Frankly, for a writer, I make a half-decent artist. An anthro
>lit APA would be such a nice thing...
You both may want to send some stories to the Curtises. They are creating
a Furry Story magazine to have for sale at the next CF. They are still
looking
for stories and articles to add, and it would be a wonderful test case to
see
if there is any interest in a text-only fanzine. Personally, I think zines
like
Yarf and PawPrints make a good mix of stories and art, but that's my
personal mileage.
Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
http://www.blkbox.com/~osprey/
m...@netcom.com
about interesting things. It's not as exciting as the "Controvesy Corner" but
I'm not quite as adept at dodging thrown chairs as I was.
I think that editorials can make you think, incite you to action, or move you
to tears or spark curiosity -- without inciting the paper equivalent of Road
Rage. Me, I like something that makes me go "hmmmmmm" and think about the
world in a new way.
But crass comments, foul language, ripping people and institutions apart just
to show how tough you are? Nah. Not my taste. I'd rather read something to
arouse my curiosity.
Atara
>
> Without having looked at the list recently, I'm sure if it's completely
> current. I know I collect only two--Yarf! and Pawprints--regularly, ever
> since FurryPhile vanished. I'd bet that a lot of the 'zine's on that list
> were one-shots, or limited runs.
Of all the zines with a one-shot publication, I miss Mythagoras the
most. Yarf! is great, but I really liked the prose slant of Mythagoras.
..
Then again, I *may* be a little biased. ;)
Returning cautiously...
--
Atara
"I've got a pantheon of animals
in a pagan soul..." -Rush
http://www.FurNation.com/Atara/
William Haskell
>
> This is a simple question.
>
> some time, by political infighting.
>
> debate.
>
>
> ever heard out of this normally extremely vocal group is that I can't get the
> staples through straight on every copy.
Well, now that you mention it, the black backing tape keeps coming off,
so I have to stick it back on with rubber cement. (Hello, is *everyone*
snoring now?)
Jeff L. Eddy
wrote:
I'll agree with you there, Allen. I like PawPrints and Yarf! a lot, and I'd
love to see the Curtis' effort take off...
The thing I'm envisioning is more of a 'writer's workshop' kind of
publication. It would not only have stories by member writers (which, if
the APA was member-only distribution would not complicate/preclude further
publication of this material if the writers decided to seek it) but perhaps
short columns on specific devices, issues, or methods. It would be more of
a place for writer's to try new things and interface with each other than
to show off finished works.
Of course, you'd think such a thing would work better in an electronic
format, as it would cost less to produce. Well, I dunno about everyone
else, but I still have great trouble reading things online. I like to sit
down somewhere quiet away from the glowing screen and turn pages on a REAL
bound work...
But, I have serious doubts as to the interest level for something like
this, and I won't bother to start it if I'm not sure I can at least make it
go a whole year or two. It would live and die on the effort of it's members
and how willing they were to invest time into it.
can...@yiffco.com
problem. when I get it in the mail, the black binding is all ripped, and
halfway off... don't matter, I just take the tape off. works just as well
staple-bound for me.
Mark Freid - Burned Fur
http://wolf.tierranet.com
can...@yiffco.com
===========================
Lupine Civil Defense Warden
Retrogamer.
Surveyor of fine vixens.
===========================
In article <703nd5$q1o$3...@news.hal-pc.org>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
m...@netcom.com
offered the Brawl for subscription and open purchase (Ed Zolna sells quite a
few) to offer members wider exposure (at its peak we printed aroudn 150 copies
per month... and sold them) and to keep costs for the members low.
I loved looking at APA stuff but sometimes it was so hard to find.
Dr. Cat
: I'm either a political genius or the most boring man alive.
Hey, if you're not causing big nasty arguments, why question the reasons for
it? Just lie back and enjoy the benefits of, um, whatever it is. :X)
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: A diet *totally* devoid of big nasty arguments is said by some
nutrionists to cause the death of the furry fandom or something. Consult your
family physician before switching over.)
Robert Alley
>
> >>> I've toyed with the idea of starting an Anthro Literary APA (if I thought
> >>> anyone would submit to it, much less read the thing). If I did, you bet
> >>> I'd use Huzzah! as a guideline for how to do it Right!
> >>
> The thing I'm envisioning is more of a 'writer's workshop' kind of
> publication. It would not only have stories by member writers (which, if
> the APA was member-only distribution would not complicate/preclude further
> publication of this material if the writers decided to seek it) but perhaps
> short columns on specific devices, issues, or methods. It would be more of
> a place for writer's to try new things and interface with each other than
> to show off finished works.
>
> Of course, you'd think such a thing would work better in an electronic
> format, as it would cost less to produce. Well, I dunno about everyone
> else, but I still have great trouble reading things online. I like to sit
> down somewhere quiet away from the glowing screen and turn pages on a REAL
> bound work...
>
> But, I have serious doubts as to the interest level for something like
> this, and I won't bother to start it if I'm not sure I can at least make it
> go a whole year or two. It would live and die on the effort of it's members
> and how willing they were to invest time into it.
>
There was APA Castlehome (1994-97), which was a quarterly that lasted about 12
issues before the overall compiler (Reese D'Orrycot, aka Lord Reese) folded it
due to a lack of time. I'm not sure about its circulation. There were
perhaps about 15-20 members at most on it, but it was available from Mailbox
Books (though not anymore--they remaindered them off this spring) & one of
Reese's editorials suggested that up to 200 copies of some issues were made.
You may want to talk to him about the mechanics of this; unfortunately, I
don't have his E-mail address, though perusing the "Publications" section of
the Velar Library site may get it for you.
Chuck Melville
<6vues3$jj8$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>...
> This is a simple question.
>
> Rowrbrazzle is currently being torn apart from the inside , and has been
for
> some time, by political infighting.
?? It is?
--
-Chuck Melville-
"We'd like to buy a cat. Preferably one with a history of mental illness."
Chuck Melville
> Jim Doolittle wrote:
> >
> > Without having looked at the list recently, I'm sure if it's completely
> > current. I know I collect only two--Yarf! and Pawprints--regularly,
ever
> > since FurryPhile vanished. I'd bet that a lot of the 'zine's on that
list
> > were one-shots, or limited runs.
>
> Of all the zines with a one-shot publication, I miss Mythagoras the
> most. Yarf! is great, but I really liked the prose slant of Mythagoras.
Little hard to define MYTHAGORAS as a one-shot when it managed to get off
three issues.
Jim Doolittle
<cp...@zipcon.net> wrote:
> Atara <at...@raex.com> wrote in article <36252CC0...@raex.com>...
> > Of all the zines with a one-shot publication, I miss Mythagoras the
> > most. Yarf! is great, but I really liked the prose slant of Mythagoras.
>
> Little hard to define MYTHAGORAS as a one-shot when it managed
to get off
> three issues.
The latest incarnation of Mythagoras only managed a single issue. A
definite shame, as I thought it had some promise to it.
-Jim, who has a copy of that issue. Waterstained by a leaky roof. Curses.
--
Jim Doolittle
dool...@uiuc.edu
http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/doolittl
Allen Kitchen
Jim Doolittle wrote in message ...
>The latest incarnation of Mythagoras only managed a single issue. A
>definite shame, as I thought it had some promise to it.
>
>
>-Jim, who has a copy of that issue. Waterstained by a leaky roof. Curses.
Next Memphis trip, bring it with you. I'd like to see it.
I have yet to see a copy, and I'd enjoy reading Watts Martin's
fanzine just once.
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
writes:
> Next Memphis trip, bring it with you. I'd like to see it. I have
> yet to see a copy, and I'd enjoy reading Watts Martin's fanzine just
> once.
Personally, I'd love to get my hands on the first two issues of the First
incarnation.
--
Due to GTE's new 100 Hour monthly limit, I am now looking for an ISP in
the Everett/Lakes Stevens WA area that will not Bait and Switch me on the Unlimited PPP time, who has decent web services, fewer DNS breakdowns and
will stick to their <$20 /month fee schedule.
I am NOT a "Granny's got E-mail now" casual web surfer.
Roz Gibson
>
>Dwight J. Dutton <cus...@iname.com> wrote in article
><6vues3$jj8$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>...
>> This is a simple question.
>>
>> Rowrbrazzle is currently being torn apart from the inside , and has been
>for
>> some time, by political infighting.
>
> ?? It is?
>
Marc S. Tucker and Carl Gafford.
I know a number of members who quit over their political pontificating.
Although the Gaff seems to have cleaned up his act, sort of, if I'd been a
member I would have quit in protest over his articles on how great Rush
Limbaugh is, or when he published those photos of himself with the stripper who
had the quadruple D boobies.
Tucker is just an idiot who thinks he's some great politcal genius, and has
pissed off the Australians and more than a few Americans. The best thing Fred
could do right now is throw him out.
But it ain't my problem.
Roz G.
Doodles
wrote:
>Marc S. Tucker and Carl Gafford.
Marc S. Tucker?
That idiot was the one who triggered the most hilarious ideas in the
history of the Comics Journal. The 'Write like Marc S. Tucker'
Contest. Maybe of folks did it in 'Brazzle he'd shut up. =};-3
Unca Spooge, sharpening a few pencils.
Timothy Fay
>
> In article <01bdf879$21f55760$143737cf@kathleen>, cp...@zipcon.net says...
> >
> >Dwight J. Dutton <cus...@iname.com> wrote in article
> ><6vues3$jj8$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>...
> >>
> >> has been for some time, by political infighting.
> >
> > ?? It is?
>
...and Karno (though less for his politics, and more for some of
his more offensive "art").
> I know a number of members who quit over their political pontificating.
> Although the Gaff seems to have cleaned up his act, sort of, if I'd been a
> member I would have quit in protest over his articles on how great Rush
> Limbaugh is, or when he published those photos of himself with the stripper who
> had the quadruple D boobies.
The Limbaugh rants I could ignore. But those photos were simply
out of line. And the worst part is that Fred let Carl get away
with it not once, but TWICE.
Still, I wouldn't say that ROWRBRAZZLE is being "torn apart"; the
APA seems to go through these cycles where one of the members does
something outrageous that upsets a bunch of the other members, then
throws a hissy-fit when asked to reign it in a bit. To his credit,
Gafford seems to have gotten the message. Tucker and Anorssen
seemingly have not.
However, I was oblivious to most of this "political infighting"
simply because I usually ignore material contributed by people
who've caused trouble in the past (not unlike having a Kill File
when reading a.f.f. :) ). Still, the blame rests entirely on the
O.E. for letting the situation get out of hand in the first place.
Dwight J. Dutton
Gofurgutz
see what all the fuss is about. After all, we're NOT going to be quizzed on
any of the material later on, and the dues are standard for a year's mailing
regardless of how much of it might contain material we don't want to read.
You don't like something in the mailing, don't read it. Don't comment on it,
and if you can, encourage others not to give a particular windbag the
satisfaction of making others respond to him (spoken like a former windbag
myself).
Seems to me the MOST selfish thing a person could do under these circumstances
is to quit in a snit because somebody won't get off the dining room table and
take that lampshade off his head. Anyone who really cares about improving
Brazzle should be even MORE determined to continue to do quality work and lead
by example, rather than leave by exasperation.
I like Marc's art, though, and most of his stories are humorous in the same
late '60s/early '70s underground comic look that he's trying for. If ALL he
did was rag on fellow members and pontificate about politics (some of which
even I agree with, though I'm sure that comes as no surprise to anyone), I'd
see reason to offer a showdown on the issue of his issues. Otherwise, why not
make like in the Joan Baez song, "just take what you need and leave the rest"?
Gaff
mtmoleda
: Seems to me the MOST selfish thing a person could do under these
: circumstances is to quit in a snit because somebody won't get off the
: dining room table and take that lampshade off his head. Anyone who
: really cares about improving Brazzle should be even MORE determined to
: continue to do quality work and lead by example, rather than leave by
: exasperation.
As far as it goes, I do agree with you, but Rowrbrazzle (and most other
apas or zines, for that matter) are done as a hobby: they are meant
primarily for the enjoyment of the contributors and readership.
You are right that it is "selfish" to leave the apa because others can't
behave, and that a more altruistic (and argueably benificial) approach is
to stay and push for what is wanted. I counter this, however, by pointing
out that I see no reason why a person who can not enjoy contributing
should stay; if contributing and reading are no longer fun nor
interesting, why be miserable?
In the end, it is a personal decision: either take a stand and endure
unwanted material in a effort to keep it in check, or simply leave and let
those who are entertained or interested keep at it. For the nearly 14
years I have been a member, I have seen both approaches taken, and both
have influenced the contents and direction of the apa. I will stand by
anyone's choice to stay or go.
: I like [his] art, though, and most of his stories are humorous in the
: same late '60s/early '70s underground comic look that he's trying for.
[further commentary snipped]
I also enjoy his creativity. Even if I didn't, I would still agree he has
the choice to express himself and his opinions as he sees fit so long as
he doesn't violate any of the apa's rules. Unfortunatley -- although he
is within the rules -- he seems utterly determined to be abrasive. When
it is politely pointed out to him he could use fewer adjectives and clever
descriptive phrases to make his points, he refuses to concider the notion
(or rather, he conciders it and then deliberately chooses to do be
abrassive anyway).
To sum up: it does sadden me that Rowrbrazzle does have members leaving
because they are not happy with the direction the apa has taken, but I
would rather they go ahead and leave for their own "selfishness" instead
of staying and being miserable for the sake of a principle they may not
belive in.
Rowrbrazzle has almost ALWAYS had this to one degree or another, and has
survived just fine. Whether this survival is because or in spite of
individuals choosing to quit is entirely a matter of opinion.
We currently have a member who is making membership unpleasant for others
(but not entirely by himself) and those who are made uncomfortable are
still free to decide how they wish to handle this.
MY opinion on the matter.
Th' Mole
Gofurgutz
personal attacks by one member against another. In most apas, this would be
considered to have a "chilling effect" on freedom of speech, but as it's
handled in the capable hands of Fred Patten, what few times it's been invoked
has been with the approval of the membership.
Why isn't that provision being used today? If Marc's material is that
offensive that it's causing members to leave, shouldn't the first line of
defense be for the OE to reject said material? And if it hasn't been rejected,
can't it be safely assumed that the material--however unpleasant--isn't
objectionable enough for people to be this worried about it? I know Fred's not
online, but has anyone who's been at the collations asked him why the OE hasn't
rejected Marc's zines? And they don't warrant rejection, why is anyone worried
about them?
Gaff
Chuck Melville
<70ei0r$gn9$1...@nnrp4.snfc21.pbi.net>...
> In article <01bdf879$21f55760$143737cf@kathleen>, cp...@zipcon.net says...
> >
> >Dwight J. Dutton <cus...@iname.com> wrote in article
> ><6vues3$jj8$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>...
> >>
been
> >for
> >> some time, by political infighting.
> >
> > ?? It is?
> >
>
> Marc S. Tucker and Carl Gafford.
Oh. Them.
> I know a number of members who quit over their political pontificating.
> Although the Gaff seems to have cleaned up his act, sort of, if I'd been
a
> member I would have quit in protest over his articles on how great Rush
> Limbaugh is, or when he published those photos of himself with the
stripper who
> had the quadruple D boobies.
For all that, I don't mind Gaff's opinions all that much. I don't agree
with a lot of his points or his politics, but I've never found them to be
so annoying or irritating that I felt a need to tell him to shut up.
(Although I -do- wish he'd remember that politics ain't what the APA is
for.) Still, it's not as though he's the -first- to express such political
stance in 'BRAZZLE... or -any- political stance for that matter. I just
take it with a grain of salt.
The stripper... was that his ex-wife?
> Tucker is just an idiot who thinks he's some great politcal genius, and
has
> pissed off the Australians and more than a few Americans. The best thing
Fred
> could do right now is throw him out.
Tucker is a whole 'nother kettle of fish, and I'm in agreement here. It's
not that he -has- a political stance, but that he thinks he understands
Everything so much better than the rest of the membership. Essentially,
he's a pseudo-intellectual with massive delusions of competency. I stopped
reading his material a couple of years ago, and just looked at the
pictures. However, in light of this thread and some of the events in the
current mailing -- including the unfortunate news that Paul Kidd has
resigned his membership in protest of Tucker's attitude and past comments
-- I find myself reconsidering and reading through his past and most recent
contribs, in order to better familiarize myself with his current pomposity.
Chuck Melville
<19981024001256...@ng64.aol.com>...
Why -isn't- that provision being used? A good question; perhaps it's a
point that should be pressed. Fred's editorial indicates that he's been
asked by several members already, and that he -is- giving the matter
stronger consideration. We'll see.
Paul isn't the only one fed up with Tucker's dialogue and attitude.
Basically, Tucker has soured the atmosphere for most, and -several- have
said so, stating that the APA has suddenly become less fun for them. (Even
some of those who don't actively comment in the APA have made similar
comments in private.) I'm also finding it to be rather dim these days, and
moreso now that Paul's packed it in. Truthfully, I'd given up even reading
Tucker's pages, and just contented myself with looking at his art; but you
can't help but notice the change in other folks' submissions, and in their
reactions to him.
But this is a matter to be resolved there, and not here.
Roz Gibson
>> online, but has anyone who's been at the collations asked him why the OE
>hasn't
>> rejected Marc's zines? And they don't warrant rejection, why is anyone
>worried
>> about them?
>> Gaff
>>
>
> Why -isn't- that provision being used? A good question; perhaps it's
a
>point that should be pressed. Fred's editorial indicates that he's been
>asked by several members already, and that he -is- giving the matter
>stronger consideration. We'll see.
I do know that Fred said he'd actually rejected one of Tucker's illos this new
issue that was a bit too strong and inflamitory, but unfortunately I can't
remember exactly what it was. (shrug) Although I'm not a member, I still emjoy
follwoing the book, and it's sad to see how it's declined from it's heyday.
For the good of Brazzle, someone should give Tucker a computer and get him on
the internet. There he could post and pontificate all day, probably get a lot
more responses than he gets through Brazzle, and if we're really lucky he would
get swallowed by that monster that is FurryMuck and he's never resurface. (it's
happened to more than a few people). But on the other hand, he might start
posting here....
Roz
Doodles
wrote:
>For the good of Brazzle, someone should give Tucker a computer and get him on
>the internet. There he could post and pontificate all day, probably get a lot
>more responses than he gets through Brazzle, and if we're really lucky he would
>get swallowed by that monster that is FurryMuck and he's never resurface. (it's
>happened to more than a few people).
I'd be happy to start a collection to send him an iMac. Might as well
make it as easy as physically possible for him. =};-3
>But on the other hand, he might start posting here....
Yes, but _here_ we can ignore him with far greater ease. And the ones
who don't ignore him will get caught up in his web and stop posting to
all the other threads.
Marc S. Tucker - Usenet pest strip. =};-3
Unca Spooge - Usenet wise ass.
Chuck Melville
>
> For the good of Brazzle, someone should give Tucker a computer and get
him on
> the internet. There he could post and pontificate all day, probably get
a lot
> more responses than he gets through Brazzle, and if we're really lucky he
would
> get swallowed by that monster that is FurryMuck and he's never resurface.
(it's
> happened to more than a few people). But on the other hand, he might
start
> posting here....
Maybe we could all just chip in and get him a subscription to COMICS
JOURNAL?
Doodles
> Maybe we could all just chip in and get him a subscription to COMICS
>JOURNAL?
Gary Groth would wipe his ass with the payment and send it back before
letting Tucker at his mag again. And Tucker would probably burn them,
anyway. Send Tucker some Eros titles instead and alert Australian
Customs. =};-3
Unca Spooge, lightly evil with a hint of wicked.