Does someone have experience with DL-based Certified Nurs. Asst. programs?
Chip White
A friend is looking for distance-based Certified Nursing Assistant (CNA)
training. (The name may vary slightly from one state to another... LVN vs LPN
and such...)
I'm not familiar with any DL programs out there for CNAs. Anyone know of, or
better yet, have experience with one?
Is there a clinical portion to the training? If so, how is it accomplished?
Is a certification/training received in one state valid in another?
Thanks!!
Chip
Steve Levicoff
First, there is a difference between a CNA and an LVN/LPN, primarily in
the scope of authority with regard to patient care.
The LVN/LPN curriculum is usually one full calendar year long, includes
clinical work, and qualifies persons to take the NCLEX LPN examination,
which results in state licensure if successfully passed. Licensure in
one state is good only in that state, although there is reciprocity
between states. Thus, a nurse who is licensed in, say, New York cannot
prctice in New Jersey, but he or she can apply for licensure in New
Jersey based on his or her training in New York. In most states, LPN's
(the more common designation) are authorized to administer medications
("pass meds") and perform some advanced nursing functions. Most LPN's
are employed in long-term care facilities (LTC's, or nursing homes),
while hospitals still rely primarily on RN's.
The CNA curriculum is much shorter and is primarily geared toward
"ADL's," or Activities of Daily Living. Here in Pennsylvania, for
example, a person may be trained as a CNA by a nursing home at which he
or she is employed, in which case there must be 80 clock hours of
combined training and clinical experience. CNA courses are also
offered at voc-tech schools in Pennsylvania, and they tend to be 120
clock hours in length, divided evenly between classroom training and
clinical practicum. CNA's do not pass meds under any circumstance, nor
do they engage in advanced nursing care; as a general rule (with a few
exceptions), if a procedure is invasive in nature (IV's, catheters,
traech or nasal-gastric tubes, etc.), it is not within the scope of the
CNA's authority.
(While some non-professional nurses may pass meds, they are generally
classified as pharmacy or medication technicians, the scope of training
for which is different than for the CNA.)
In terms of nontraditional programs, I have only run into one program
that purports to train LPN's through distance education: TriSmith
College in North Carolina, a proprietary school that I have classified
as a degree mill based on misleading advertising. (They are listed in
Chapter 12 of "Name It & Frame It," surfable through my web site,
below.) Even TriSmith requires some 80 hours of clinical experience
which must be taken on site.
I have never seen a distance learning CNA program, and would question
the credibility of one if I did see it - the clinical component is
generally a state requirement. If anything, you might find some
external programs at DETC-accredited schools for medical assistants,
medical secretaries, or medical transcriptionists, none of which
require a clinical practicum (although, in some states, medical
assistants are trained in some invasive procedures such as phlebotomy
or the giving of injections).
Both Thomas Edison State College and Regents College have accredited
programs for the RN credential, but as a general rule, a person must be
at least an LPN before enrolling. (TESC also requires that the person
live and/or work in New Jersey.)
For someone who is not certified, the best and cheapest route is to
apply for a job at a nursing home that holds CNA classes; here in
Pennsylvania, at least, non-certified nursing assistants have 120 days
to complete their training and take the CNA certification examination.
Since the examination for state certification is administered by the
American Red Cross, I would imagine that the standards are similar in
most states.
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-----------------------------------
Steve Levicoff
levi...@ix.netcom.com
http://members.tripod.com/~levicoff
-----------------------------------
P.S. That's "Steve Levicoff, Ph.D., C.N.A." Since I had been teaching
clinical medical ethics at the graduate level, I took the CNA
certification program one semester as a way to spend some time in
long-term care facilities incognito, then did the certification exam
for the hell of it. I guess the secret's out - when I have the time,
which is rare, I do take some offbeat courses. You should have seen me
in the baking course . . .
Chip White
Steve,
Thanks for the helpful info. Sorry that my post was confusing. I know that
LVN/LPN are skilled positions requiring a 1 yr program, and different from
CNAs; I was trying to say that I think CNA's are called something other than
CNAs in some states.
THe problem is this: the organization in question is looking to hire CNAs,
but is not a nursing home empowered to train them (at least not with formal
certification from anyone) They do, however, have skilled care staff (RNs,
mostly) who can supervise and provide clinical training.
They're looking for a way to offer the classroom-portion of the CNA training
through something like DL, then either they, or a nearby nursing home would
supervise the clinical portion.
I was hoping there might be a DETC-approved program out there somewhere that
would come close to this.
If my clarification gives you (or anyone else) any further ideas, I'd like
to hear them.
Thanks!
Chip
Jason Smith
California College for Health Sciences has as Medical Assistant certificate
program. Medical assistants do have a scope of practice above that of a CNA.
Jason Smith
Steve Levicoff
Chip White <ch...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
The organization you describe should be careful about the terminology
they use. As a general rule, the work of Certified Nursing Assistants
is specifically geared toward long-term care facilities (LTC's, or
nursing homes). It does not even apply to other residential settings
such as assisted living facilities, mental health facilities, group
homes, etc. Nor, believe it or not, does it apply to hospitals. Thus,
to maintain a certification, a CNA must actually work in a nursing
home.
This is an area of controversy since, in the wacky world of managed
health care, many hospitals are training lay persons to be "patient
care technicians" (or some other paraprofessional designation), using
them to replace licensed/registered nurses. Since the average consumer
does not recognize the difference between these hospital-created job
titles, some states are actually proposing legislation to require all
medical or nursing personnel to spell out their title on name badges
and other identification in the interest of consumer awareness.
Regardless of rationale, the organiation should become aware of the
certification standards in its state, or they will likely find that
persons trained under an alternative program may not be able to take
the CNA certification exam. Generally, CNA's must be trained by an RN
who has been certified as a CNA trainer.
Steve Levicoff
Jason Smith <jsmi...@sprintmail.com> writes:
>California College for Health Sciences has as Medical Assistant
>certificate program. Medical assistants do have a scope of practice
>above that of a CNA.
>Jason Smith
Not true - medical assistants may or may not have a scope of practice
above that of a CNA. As a general rule, medical assistants operate
under the supervision of a physician, and their scope of practice is
determined by the individual physician. A medical assistant may or may
not practice phlebotomy (drawing blood), give injections, administer
cariograms, etc. - it depends on what he or she has been trained and
authorized to do. Thus, a medical assistant in one office may be more
clinically adept than a CNA, while a medical assistant in the office
next door may be no more than a secretary.
One way or the other, if *any* level of clinical care is involved, I
doubt that I would want someone practicing on my bod' if they had not
had a direct-contant, supervised clinical internship or practicum.
And, as much as I am a proponent of nontraditional education and
distance learning, I think we have to accept the reality that one can
not learn to do invasive procedures by correspondence.
Chip White
Does that mean that the new Columbia State "Neurosurgeon in 45 days,
completely by DL" degree is an unwise choice? :D
PS: Thanks for the clarification. This info is exactly what she was looking
for.
Steve Levicoff
Chip White <ch...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Does that mean that the new Columbia State "Neurosurgeon in 45 days,
>completely by DL" degree is an unwise choice? :D
Absolutely. Monticello can do it for you in 30 days.
>PS: Thanks for the clarification. This info is exactly what she was
>looking for.
Hey, dude, no sweat. We aims to please.
Jason Smith
You are correct. I should have stated that medical assistants, specifically
CMAs, are trained and certified to perform duties that is above the scope
of practice in which CNAs are trained. Of course, laws vary from state to
state and duties vary between places of employment. For those interested in
more detail information of each occupation should look at the online
1998-99 Occupational Outlook Handbook.
Medical Assistants: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos164.htm
Nursing Aides (Nursing Assistants): http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos165.htm
Dr. Nick Riviara
I found it to be a great program and heartily endorse it.
It has brought me both fame and fortune.
Dr. Nick
Steve Le..
We are announcinh the start of a defense fund for Dr. Steve levicoff.
Steve has been very good to post responses to hundreds of us seeking
knowledge in this minefield that is called distance learning. Were it
not for his intervention (knowledgeable, humorous and sweet) many of us
would have spent money in vain.
Steve now faces the potential of heavy lawsuits for his many barbed
attacks on persons running diploma mills etc.
We are asking all who are willing to contribute to send a short reply
to the email address below. We will then give you the bank account
number to transmit the funds. Please keep all donations to a minimum of
$15.
All correspondence to:
Dr. Steve Levicoff
Levi...@ix.netcom.com
http://members.tripod.com/~levicoff/
Chip White
This is really getting out of hand.
Now the same jerk who is wasting bandwidth representing himself as Levicoff is
trying to wreak email havoc as well.
Ignore the previous message.