http://www.moonmovie.com/usatoday.htm
Is he scared?
Visit this site, watch the streaming vid of the flag moving.
> In 1998, the Space Shuttle flew to one of its highest altitudes ever, three
> hundred fifty miles, hundreds of miles below merely the beginning of the Van
> Allen Radiation Belts. Inside of their shielding, superior to that which the
> Apollo astronauts possessed, the shuttle astronauts reported being able to
> "see" the radiation with their eyes closed penetrating their shielding as
> well as the retinas of their closed eyes. For a dental x-ray on Earth which
> lasts 1/100th of a second we wear a 1/4 inch lead vest. Imagine what it
> would be like to endure an hour and a half of radiation that you can see
> with your eyes closed from hundreds of miles away with 1/8 of an inch of
> aluminum shielding!
>
The Apollo astronauts were the first to report this phenomona. It is
*not* created by the Van Allen belts but rather by cosmic rays. They
are powerful, but their density is low. We have a good idea of how
often they hit things from probes we have sent to other planets which
have been exposed to them for long periods of time.
The Van Allen belts are farily intense, but they passed through them at
25,000 mph and were exposed for well under an hour. You should note
they controlled the choice of mission dates so they could pass through
a weaker part of the belts (away from the sun side of the earth).
Sensible people would agree that a candle flame of several hundred
degrees would seriously burn me if I placed my hand in it and is a
dangerous thing. But people also know that you can pass your hand
quickly through the flame without much risk.
We have the same thing. It's not enough to know they are "danerous",
but we must contrast strength with exposure time.
If you claim that a short trip through the weakest part of the belt at
25,000 is unsurvivable, please document this. Do you have any numbers?
---- Andy
> After all, two decades later, with much improved and superior technology
What's your point?
The Hubble Telescope mirror was misground because of a washer in the
wrong place on an instrument which provided feedback during the
grinding. This was not caught because NASA was tight with the money
and decided to not do a simple test which could have caught this on
earth.
Contrasted with the manned missions where the safety of the astronauts
was paramount and NASA spent many, many, many times more money on
Apollo than on Hubble to work towards that goal.
It's like wondering why with technology as advanced as it is today do
mountain climbers die on much smaller mountains than Everest. People
must not have climbed it all those decades ago.
---- Andy
>?????????????????????
>
>Is he scared?
Mr. Armstrong is a very private man, and does not wish to be in the
public eye.
Of the eleven other men who walked on the Moon, I believe ten are
still alive. They do make regular public apperences, have written
books about their experiences, and have gone on to other endevours.
--
Douglas E. Berry grid...@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
"Mr. Islaan" wrote:
>
> After all, two decades later, with much improved and superior technology
> to that of 1969, a mission only 1/100th as complicated, the Earth orbit
I just love it when idiots pull numbers like "1/100th" totally out of
their ass. People say "Look how fast my PC runs Quake. They couldn't
do
that 30 years ago. Obviously, it would be no problem sending someone
to the moon now."
By your universal "principle of 1/100", my car should have cost about
$100 (corrected for inflation) and get 2000 mpg. Does this mean the
cars of the 60's were hoaxes?
Yes, computers and electronics have improved dramatically,
and there have been some materials developed which would make the
task a bit easier, but Newton's Laws have not changed, and there
have been no dramatic improvements in rocket fuels. Rockets of today
are not fundamentally different than the rockets Robert Goddard built.
Basically, sending a man to the moon today would be almost as
complicated as it was 30 years ago.
BTW, it's *three* decades, you moron.
> of a telescope (Hubble), was nearly as many years behind schedule as the
> entire duration of the lunar landing goal, and then, after its sixth
> launch attempt, didn't even work when it arrived at its destination
> which was 1/1000th the distance to the moon. In addition, it took
And they just launched the MAP probe which was built in a fairly short
time for a tiny fraction of either of these missions and will sit at
the Earth-sun L2 point - 5 times the distance to the moon!
(http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/)
Did you have a point?
> another two years to make the necessary repairs to get it operational.
> Even today, an unmanned probe (to Mars), the size of a large toaster,
> requires nearly ten years to develop. Mr. Medved, where is the logic in
> this?
>
You comparing one project on NASA's very full plate to something that
became almost their entire, well funded, raison d'etre for a decade.
The Apollo
program had broad support and an almost unlimited budget. If
everyone as NASA dropped what they were doing and started working
on project "X", and congress approved a blank check for project X,
it's likely project X would get done in short order - but everyone
not involved with project X would get pretty annoyed.
I assume you believe that the development of the A-bomb was also
a hoax? You can make all the same comparisons between its development
and later weapons programs, so I guess it must be fake as well.
--
---------------------------------------------------------
* Eric Prebys, Physics Department, Princeton University *
* 609-258-4910, FAX: -6360, Email: pre...@princeton.edu *
* WWW: http://www.princeton.edu/~prebys/ *
---------------------------------------------------------
>After all, two decades later, with much improved and superior technology
>to that of 1969, a mission only 1/100th as complicated, the Earth orbit
>of a telescope (Hubble), was nearly as many years behind schedule as the
>entire duration of the lunar landing goal, and then, after its sixth
>launch attempt, didn't even work when it arrived at its destination
>which was 1/1000th the distance to the moon. In addition, it took
>another two years to make the necessary repairs to get it operational.
You think all this stuff is a piece of cake genius?
>Even today, an unmanned probe (to Mars), the size of a large toaster,
>requires nearly ten years to develop. Mr. Medved, where is the logic in
>this?
Clueless as can be I see. Again, you think this is all a cakewalk?
You can't possibly be serious here, nobody is that stupid....Wait, I
forgot what newsgroup I'm reading....
>In 1998, the Space Shuttle flew to one of its highest altitudes ever, three
>hundred fifty miles, hundreds of miles below merely the beginning of the Van
>Allen Radiation Belts. Inside of their shielding, superior to that which the
>Apollo astronauts possessed, the shuttle astronauts reported being able to
>"see" the radiation with their eyes closed penetrating their shielding as
>well as the retinas of their closed eyes. For a dental x-ray on Earth which
>lasts 1/100th of a second we wear a 1/4 inch lead vest. Imagine what it
>would be like to endure an hour and a half of radiation that you can see
>with your eyes closed from hundreds of miles away with 1/8 of an inch of
>aluminum shielding!
Dear moron,
Because of the speed at which the crew traveled through the Van
Allen belt the radiation they were exposed to was VERY SMALL, the
equivalent of 1-2 chest x-rays. The vest you wear at the dentist is
just for precaution, you don't even really need the damn thing
actually.
> Dear moron,
> Because of the speed at which the crew traveled through the Van
> Allen belt the radiation they were exposed to was VERY SMALL, the
> equivalent of 1-2 chest x-rays. The vest you wear at the dentist is
> just for precaution, you don't even really need the damn thing
> actually.
Dear Tardboy,
Next time, ask your dentist to hold your hand.
> Basically, sending a man to the moon today would be almost as
> complicated as it was 30 years ago.
Right. We couldn't do it then and we can't do it now.
Perpetrating the same scam would be more difficult, though.
Apples and oranges.
An astronaut would typically have either two or four trips through the
belts at 25,000 mph in an entire lifetime.
If you told the dentist he had to stand in and "hold hands" with only
four patients in his entire life and he would win a trip to the moon he
would most probably *leap* at the chance.
The radiation load of an entire mission is less than two chest x-rays.
--- Andy
I notice a lot of conviction, but a total lack of evidence.
Were the Saturn V's not up to the challenge?
Too much radiation?
Shadows run the wrong way?
Or.... wait for it.....
No stars in photographs?
Why do you think men have not walked on the moon. Be specific.
--- Andy
Next time try to find some proof of your moronic ramblings.
Oh that's right, you can't! How pathetic....
>Even today, an unmanned probe (to Mars), the size of a large toaster,
I'm interested in this Mars probe the "size of a large toaster."
Unless he is refering to the Rover, which was part of a probe, he must
have some very big toasters in his home.
> >Dear Tardboy,
> >Next time, ask your dentist to hold your hand.
>
> Next time try to find some proof of your moronic ramblings.
How can I prove that your dentist will not hold your hand
when you get x-rays? That's up to you, shit for brains.
But, you have conclusively proved that you are a tardboy.
that sounds like bullshit
Might sound like bullshit, do you have evidence otherwise?
No space scientists with an interest in the Van Allen belts seem
surprised that people could fly through it then or now.
You are aware that they moved at 25,000 miles per hour and choose where
to cross the Van Allen belts? They picked an area which is not
directly exposed to the sun and has a much lower flux.
Put your hand in a candle flame and you will get burned. Move your
hand quickly though it and nothing bad will happen.
--- Andy
What's your point, grandpa?
>Far too many people were involved in the project to have kept a
> hoax secret.
Like the Warren Commission?
The point- back then, film and videotape being broadcast live from the
moon could not be faked, little boy.
Like the Warren Commission-
The Kennedy incident had a few major players, maybe 10 or 12. Probably
more minor ones.
The moon landing had millions watching live TV from space, the people
watching them enter the rocket and launch were in the thousands, no way
to keep something that big a secret.
Ya bonehead.
In 69, the US and Russia were in a high state of animosity. Do ya think
they would have liked to have been able to say America cheated? Maybe
true even today, tardboy.
So many more examples could be made it boggles the mind, if ya have one.
CAN WE "PLEASE" DROP THIS HOAX!!
It's been done and is drying on my towel rack at this moment.
What are you,? A NEWBIE?
Save yourself for something better.
TheNIGHTCRAWLER
>> Dear moron,
It isn't. The total radiation picked up by an Apollo astronaut is
equal to what you get living in Denver, Colorado for a decade. Since
people do live in Denver for more than ten years without dying, I
think the point is made.
Now, in the interest of placing all the facts on the table, had there
been a solar event that was aimed at Earth while the astronauts were
in space, they would have died.
>>Far too many people were involved in the project to have kept a
>> hoax secret.
>
>Like the Warren Commission?
Let's compare:
Number of people we know to have been involved in shooting JFK: 1
Number of people we know to have been involved in the Apollo program:
500,000+
Time it took to kill JFK: Less than one minute
Time it took to plan, build, and succeed in Apollo: eight years.
Traceable public funds used in the Kennedy assassination: 0
Traceable public funds used in the Apollo program: 20+ billion dollars
Photographic evidence used to support the Warren Commission: 1 grainy
8mm film, several questionable autopsy photos.
Photographic evidence used to support the Apollo program: several
thousand still photos, hours of video footage.
Physical evidence in the Kennedy assassination: 1 rifle.
Physical evidence for the Apollo landings: hundreds of pounds of lunar
rock and dust, functioning experiments left on the Moon, left over
rockets, LMs, and CSMs from the canceled missions.
Testimony by participants in the JFK killing: "I'm just a patsy" - Lee
Harvey Oswald.
Testimony by participants in Apollo: All the astronauts, mission
control staff, launch pad staff, contractors, wives, children, and
everyone else involved maintains that what they did was quite real.
dav...@bellsouth.net schreef:
Is that north of the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts?
>Do ya think
> they would have liked to have been able to say America cheated?
CHEATED??? ROFFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>Maybe
> true even today, tardboy.
Talk to Klintoon and AlphaGore, fuckwhit.
(the russian's ain't saying shit-most of them are as stupid as you)
> So many more examples could be made it boggles the mind, if ya have one.
I don't get my history from comics by pravda, dogfuck.
> >>Far too many people were involved in the project to have kept a
> >> hoax secret.
> >
> >Like the Warren Commission?
>
> Let's compare:
>
> Number of people we know to have been involved in shooting JFK: 1
My point exactly, shit for brains.
You are the stupidest piece of **** I have ever seen on Usenet.
I don't believe you can read anything but comics. When does 5th grade
start this year?
>Douglas Berry wrote:
My, quite a mouth you have.
Since you snipped the rest of my post, let me explain it for you,
using the smallest words I can find, so you won't get confused.
The JFK killing *might* have been the work of one man. There is no
paper trail, no accounti8ng books, nothing.
The Apollo program was extensively detailed and recorded. You can
follow every single dollar spent, have *thousands* or witnesses to
every aspect of the program, and thousands of scientists all over the
world who examined the material brought back from the Moon.
Now, add in the millions of citizens who saw the Saturn V launch with
their own eyes. Add in the others who could see the third stage burn
from their backyards. Nothing came back down.. the Soviets and
Chinese would have spotted it in a hot second.
Just for fun, let's add in radio communications with the astronauts
with the proper time delay and doppler shift. Ham radio operators who
were able to eavesdrop on the missions.
The evidence is overwhelming: We went to the Moon. If you have
something constructive to offer, I'm willing to listen. If it is just
going to be more of your grade-school profanity, don't bother, I'll
listen to the six-year olds playing outside instead.
They make more sense then you, anyway.
Douglas Berry wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 02:25:26 GMT, a wanderer, known to us only as
> Jerry Fletcher <fan...@bigfoot.com> warmed at our fire and told this
> tale:
>
> >Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> >> >>Far too many people were involved in the project to have kept a
> >> >> hoax secret.
> >> >
> >> >Like the Warren Commission?
> >>
> >> Let's compare:
> >>
> >> Number of people we know to have been involved in shooting JFK: 1
> >
> >My point exactly, shit for brains.
>
> My, quite a mouth you have.
>
> Since you snipped the rest of my post, let me explain it for you,
> using the smallest words I can find, so you won't get confused.
>
> The JFK killing *might* have been the work of one man. There is no
> paper trail, no accounti8ng books, nothing.
>
> The Apollo program was extensively detailed and recorded. You can
> follow every single dollar spent, have *thousands* or witnesses to
> every aspect of the program,
Yeah but only a few would only know who went to the moon...........Not
thousands.
> and thousands of scientists all over the
> world who examined the material brought back from the Moon.
>
> Now, add in the millions of citizens who saw the Saturn V launch with
> their own eyes. Add in the others who could see the third stage burn
> from their backyards. Nothing came back down.. the Soviets and
> Chinese would have spotted it in a hot second.
>
> Just for fun, let's add in radio communications with the astronauts
> with the proper time delay and doppler shift. Ham radio operators who
> were able to eavesdrop on the missions.
That's what they "heard", but they did not "see" the moon landing.
>
>
> The evidence is overwhelming: We went to the Moon. If you have
> something constructive to offer, I'm willing to listen.
Then how come it is said that the computer chip of a Sony Playstation of
today would be worth $20 million back in 1976?
And if the onboard computers on the Command Service Module and the Lunar
Module should be big as a house because of their memory back in the late
sixties?
> Yeah but only a few would only know who went to the moon...........Not
> thousands.
There would still have to be thousands....
The astronauts (of course).
The leadership who made that decision.
The people who designed the hardware to "insert" the fake data as if it
came from the moon.
The people who reprogrammed the rocket to secretly dump in the ocean
rather than going to the moon.
The people who designed the software to "simulate" the tracking data
good enough to fool the computers used by the large tracking teams to
track on earth.
The scientists who were good enough to invent fake scientific data good
enough to stand to this day. Scientists with enough forsight to
anticipate newer discoverys which would back up their trick data.
Geologists who woud manufacture rocks which would have the subtle
chemical signature of the moon rocks.
The diplomats who would convince the Russians, Chinese, and our allies
to not expose our fraud based on any research (ie spying) they had done
on the program.
> Then how come it is said that the computer chip of a Sony Playstation of
> today would be worth $20 million back in 1976?
It would be worth as much as you could ask for it. Such a chip was
wholely beyond design in that age.
> And if the onboard computers on the Command Service Module and the Lunar
> Module should be big as a house because of their memory back in the late
> sixties?
Why would you say that? The AGC happens to be of interest to me lately
and I've done a lot of research on it. Are you claiming it never was
built or did not work?
It was also the computer used in Skylab and after Apollo by the Air
Force in the F8 aircraft as the first "fly by wire" controller
computer. The first shuttle computers were only slightly more
advanced.
Why would the core memory be "as big as a house"? The core memory they
used was not terribly advanced for the age.
They only had about 38,500 words (16 bit each) of non-volitile "rope"
core which was clever because they only used one core "donut" per word,
rather than the 16 it would ordinarilly take. This is because it was
ROM, they ran the sense wires for the bits which should be a '1'
through a common core and skipped the bits which should be a '0'. This
meant the rope cores only needed 1/16th as many cores as similar
volitile core memory would have.
It only had 2,048 words of volitile core memory (ie, RAM).
The entire computer was made from about 2,500 flat pack dual-nor gate
chips for a total of just over 5,000 total logic gates (which is very
small). It had 34 instructions based on a 16 bit word (paritity + sign
+ 14 data bits).
The entire computer wieghed about 70 pounds and used as much power as a
60 watt light bulb. There was never a computer failure in space.
I dare you to call me on any of those details. Show me why it would
have to be as big as a house....
--- Andy
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>> The Apollo program was extensively detailed and recorded. You can
>> follow every single dollar spent, have *thousands* or witnesses to
>> every aspect of the program,
>
>Yeah but only a few would only know who went to the moon...........Not
>thousands.
Hundreds of workers at the Cape saw the astronauts enter the capsule,
which was then sent into orbit, and then left Earth orbit. Live
televison was sent from all the Apollo missions, showing the crew at
work inside the capsules in microgravity.
>> Just for fun, let's add in radio communications with the astronauts
>> with the proper time delay and doppler shift. Ham radio operators who
>> were able to eavesdrop on the missions.
>
>That's what they "heard", but they did not "see" the moon landing.
Nobody did. Not with their own eyes. But we have enough evidence
from other sources to make an overwhelming case.
>Then how come it is said that the computer chip of a Sony Playstation of
>today would be worth $20 million back in 1976?
Excuse me? It would.
>And if the onboard computers on the Command Service Module and the Lunar
>Module should be big as a house because of their memory back in the late
>sixties?
The actual computers on the LM/CSM were tiny. You can read all about
their design and operation here:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/moon/computer.htm
These weren't computers like the ones you and I are using. They were
primitive, incredibly simple, and backed up by a roomfull of
programmers standing by at Mission Control to explain and solve any
glitches.
One other thing to consider: There was a Russian Moon landing project
called N-1 that proceeded to test launches and unmanned launches
proving that there was a race to get to the moon between American and
the then Soviet Union.
Explain that.
Follow this link to understand the Russian Lunar Program
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/rockets_launchers.html
So if it were all a hoax, why would the Russians participate?
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/spacecraft_manned_lunar.html
If there were no American Lunar program why did the Russians have one?
Skiff Islaan wrote:
>
> >
> > The Apollo program was extensively detailed and recorded. You can
> > follow every single dollar spent, have *thousands* or witnesses to
> > every aspect of the program,
>
> Yeah but only a few would only know who went to the moon...........Not
> thousands.
>
> > Just for fun, let's add in radio communications with the astronauts
> > with the proper time delay and doppler shift. Ham radio operators who
> > were able to eavesdrop on the missions.
>
> That's what they "heard", but they did not "see" the moon landing.
>
You can prove that there was a moon landing for yourself: On several
missions, laser corner reflectors were left at the landing sites so that
scientists here on earth could measure with percision the distance between
earth and moon.
Rent a laser of sufficient power to conduct the experiment for yourself.
And, it's not like they were running Windows on these things...
-pk
> It's true; the Moon landing never happened. The guys who were slated to
>go didn't actually, and Aldrin and the others helped perpetrate a hoax. The
>guys who were supposed to go were men who later became known as "Abbot &
>Costello". Their attempt at a Moon landing was filmed by NASA, and when it
>failed, they made a comedy out of it where the two tried to get to the Moon,
>landed back on Earth, and thought they had gotten to their assigned
>destination.
Actually, we *did* get to the moon. But the inhabitants told us to
knock it off and not to come back.
--
bruce
The dignified don't even enter in the game.
--The Jam
> It's true; the Moon landing never happened. The guys who were slated to
>go didn't actually, and Aldrin and the others helped perpetrate a hoax.
That's true. It's just like the Smoking Man/Grassy Knoll
hoax. They never existed. Studies conducted with building
models in a wind tunnel have proved that the wind swirling
around the buildings and around grassy knoll would have
blown the smoke in a different direction than that depicted
in the fake photos.
Also, the fuzzy photo showing what is claimed to be the
hairy head of smoking man was evidently a squirrel in mid
air and falling to the ground from a tree limb protruding
into the area from a tree on the other side of the wall.
After dropping 576 squirrels from various heights in a lab
and photographing them falling investigators have
practically duplicated the photo of what is supposed to be
the top of Smoking Man's head. This project did not go
unnoticed by the American Humane Society. However, they
used specially designed squirrel nets to catch the squirrels
unharmed. The nets were woven out of a mixture of cashmere
and Russian Sable at a cost of only three million dollars.
Holger
Fly free and happy beyond birthdays and across
forever, and we'll meet now and then when we wish, in
the midst of the one celebration that never can end.
Richard Bach