motion detector
mi...@sushi.com
I rather not say where this dector is located, and if you recognize it,
please don't post where it can be found.
The detector goes off where the guard makes the rounds (smart thinking,
huh!). The sound is a bit funny because the guard is doubling with the
RF from the sensor., er because the guard spotted someone.....
So rather than using fancy digital encoding, the alarm installer simply
records a name for the alarm. The big assumption here is the average
schmuck scoping out the facility doesn't own a scanner, and if he does,
he doesn't know your secret unlicensed frequency.
Remember, when you assume, you make an ass out of Uma Thurman.
Krackula <>
>http://www.lazygranch.com/sound/icantsaywhere.wav
>
>I rather not say where this dector is located, and if you recognize it,
>please don't post where it can be found.
>
>The detector goes off where the guard makes the rounds (smart thinking,
>huh!).
it because they are also used as a kinda " time clock " to keep
records of guards' rounds too !!! documentation .........
The sound is a bit funny because the guard is doubling with the
>RF from the sensor., er because the guard spotted someone.....
>
>So rather than using fancy digital encoding, the alarm installer simply
>records a name for the alarm. The big assumption here is the average
>schmuck scoping out the facility doesn't own a scanner, and if he does,
>he doesn't know your secret unlicensed frequency.
>
>Remember, when you assume, you make an ass out of Uma Thurman.
thats the same kinda " audio alert " alarms ( even sound the same )
the cammo dudes have around that facility at
http://mapper.acme.com/?lat=38.247713&long=-118.63699&scale=11&theme=Image&width=3&height=2&dot=Yes
their systems are solar powered and look to have " satellite "
uplinks for their networks ( for the sensors ). dunno where the
cammo dudes out hang at ( somewhere else ) but they
sure get there quick ( trucks and sometimes an armed chopper ) when
you trip one of those puppies !!! ah ah aha hahha h
friends tell me they can get a view of one of the underground
entrances like at
http://mapper.acme.com/?lat=38.251292&long=-118.63699&scale=10&theme=Image&width=3&height=2&dot=Yes
from a peaks located off Box Canyon ....... and that similar
intrusion sensors are scattered on Box Canyon road and all around the
" restricted area " boundary shown most maps. the sensors that
start talking are quite a surprise when you are used to hearing all
those digital jobbies most of the time !
mi...@sushi.com
weather. What is located in this restriction area? Is it really
restricted?
<http://mapper.acme.com/?lat=38.247713&long=-118.62331&scale=12&theme=Topo&width=8&height=6&dot=Yes>
Krackula <>
>I know the general area, so I guess I won't be visiting it soon due to
>weather. What is located in this restriction area? Is it really
>restricted?
><http://mapper.acme.com/?lat=38.247713&long=-118.62331&scale=12&theme=Topo&width=8&height=6&dot=Yes>
>
BOY HOWDEY !!! is it ever restricted !!!! every time you get even
close to the place , on the main road, and pull over to take a look
at those huge white " keep out , guarded 24/ 7, lethal force
authorized " signs " the boys " show up in just a few minutes .....
usually from on up the highway ( towards Hawthorne ) if you are
coming from the California side ! I don't think they are actually
coming from any of those secret ( ? ) Military facilities at
Hawthorne, tho ... cuz they get there WAY too quickly. it'd be
interesting to be " up " that road and have someone trip the sensors
and watch and see where they do come from. those heavily armed (
black ) choppers probably do come from someplace around Hawthorne as
I suspect they guard both this place and all that stuff around
Hawthorne as well. ( just a guess tho )
uhhhhhhh ........ your topo map ( above ) shows that the " restricted
" area has been " much " enlarged and NOW includes the upper
Box canyon Road and all those ( previously public land ) peaks that
you could climb to see that one ( very large ) underground entrance.
sooooooooo ..... forget about what I said about being able to drive on
the Box Canyon Road for a look at the underground entrance.
oh well ............ guess I'm gonna have to get to work on that gas
powered 1/8 scale camera platform Piper Cub after all !!!! ha haha
ha h ahaha
some friends had been kinda hammering the place in recent times
( curiosity that killed the cat !!! ) and I told them to lay off a
bit ...... especially since they seemed a bit too touchy about the
place lately !
this location is claimed to be a munitions disposal area. but it is
surprisingly heavily guarded to be such a site , first and 2nd
why is it located in such a desolate and remote area ??
there are zillions of suitable and closer spots ( to Hawthorne )
if it serves the Naval Underseas Weapons Testing Labs or the
Army Munitions Storage Facility , in the mountains across the
highway from the NUWTL. quite possibly it isn't used by either
place and could be a disposal area for types ( if thats what it
really is at all ) of munitions ( radioactive, chemical or ?? ) that
have to have severely restricted access because of their dangerous
nature.
some people say it has 3 different underground entrances and
quite clearly shows a surprisingly mysterious looking LARGE
ovalish ( football shaped ) underground structure in the center of the
canyon that is in the center of the base. old topo maps show
a dry chemical lake there ( lithium I think it was ) in that isolated
canyon. personally , I've looked the maps over and only seen one
place that looks like it could be a underground entrance. my large
heavy vehicle gets stuck easily ( 6000 lbs , 2wd ) and I haven't been
brave enough to go on the box canyon road yet. looks like it's too
late now ! probably a good thing I didn't try to go back there !
some ( knowledgeable ) friends think this is a large " rabit hole "
disguised as a munitions disposal area and that they actually do "
some " disposal there to hide it's real intent. other friends think
there is a large underground facility there filled with ( old ? )
potentially dangerous munitions ( radioactive ? ) that have to be
kept from the normal types of munitions held in the hawthorne area.
I seriously doubt the " dangerous " munitions claims because
Hawthorne routinely collects , stores and distributes " dangerous "
munitions including nuclear munitions as can be seen by this " nuclear
" quality loading and unloading facility on the Hawthorne Base
( see those zillions of rail cars and underground elevator facilities
? the berm types and other features indicate it nuclear suitable.
do those 9 poc marks look like anything you have seen west
of area51 ?? h aha ha hah especially the one farthest to the upper
right , away from the berm . it has a large square bulldozed area
there where they have hidden the ejecta from the crater ? ah aha ha
if you look closely , you can see that ejecta has been bulldozed from
" all " the poc marks but the berm hides a lot of it !!! )
http://mapper.acme.com/?lat=38.505321&long=-118.54918&scale=9&theme=Image&width=3&height=2&dot=Yes
this is a fairly late model facility and is 40 stories underground
..... they surely wouldn't need a site like mentioned above
, unless something " real unusual " is kept / dealt with there .
traveling on that road to Hawthorne , weekdays , in the mornings
can frequently be a problem. I'll email you with more information
about driving that road.
look this place over ...... it's Lucky Boy Mine ...... in lucky boy
pass on the outskirts of Hawthorne. it's a couple thousand
feet above Hawthorne and overlooks " everything " to be seen
going on there ! quite an impressive and handy photographic
view !
http://mapper.acme.com/?lat=38.504328&long=-118.6655&scale=15&theme=Image&width=3&height=2&dot=Yes
those dots all over the ground in grid patterns are all the old
bunkers left from the 60s / 70s era ....... everything is underground
now. in this same view ..... slightly to the north and traversing to
the west ( from the mine ) can be seen the highway ( restricted
access on a army post ) into the mountains where the ARMY keeps
some munitions ( or ?? ) in tunnels there too.
mi...@sushi.com
know why it is restricted. There would have to be a Public Law Order to
restrict the land, but I'd don't know how to research that.
It wouldn't be out of the ordinary to store items in an old mine. That
particular area is probably more desolate than central Nevada.
thom...@flash.net
> I'll see if I can get the CLUI people to look into this. They would
> know why it is restricted. There would have to be a Public Law Order to
> restrict the land, but I'd don't know how to research that.
> It wouldn't be out of the ordinary to store items in an old mine. That
> particular area is probably more desolate than central Nevada.
TerraServer photography and topomap show what seems to be a big mound,
roughly elliptical and about 600 x 250 meters in dimension, with either
adits or maybe stations on a firing range along the sides. (The more I
look at the picture, the less sure I am of what the object really is.)
It would be useful to know the location of the warning signs and the
exact wording on them.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=11&X=223&Y=2645&W=1
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=11&Z=11&X=891&Y=10585&W=1
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=12&Z=11&X=446&Y=5292&W=1
Krackula <>
<thom...@flash.net> wrote:
thats the problem with those satellite maps ! it's actually a rather
large depression with steep sides ..... definitely not a firing range
! old topo maps show that same place to be a dry lithium lake
inside those steep surrounding hills !
( or did they bury something huge in there ??? ha hahah a )
there are two rather large white wooden signs , about 4' tall and
7' wide. they say something like " Military Restricted Area , no
trespassing " , armed guards 24 / 7 ..... lethal force authorized and
maybe something else .. but thats the jist of it ! there are other
signs that say it's a munitions disposal area as well , hanging on the
fence line !
( what kind of munitions needs a facility like this for disposal ? and
what the heck is that big oval thing all about ??? )
you can see one main dirt road into the facility , the one that
goes into the opening in the hills to the depression !
one white sign in just outside the fence line on that road , and it's
about 100 yards ( maybe a little more ) off the main highway to the
fence. if you drive up towards the sign to read it , there are a
number of VERY obvious metal boxes with connecting wires
and other signs of the intrusion detection equipment all over the
place. they took very little trouble to try to hide it ! if you look
WAY up the road past the white sign and past the gate / fences ......
you will see a set of solar panels and an array of odd looking
equipment just at the entrance to the opening into the valley behind.
it appears to be satellite communications equipment with unusual
long slender pyramid / plexiglass looking antennas that point up to
the sky. looks to be some new generation UWB style antennas with no
white covers on them ! or ??? .. never seen stuff like it before !
the 2nd white sign is just up the highway a ways on another dirt
road into the fenced in area. just like the 1st one and also lots of
intrusion stuff can be seen there as well !
if you look at the satellite maps and have the depression in the
middle of your view ...... move up and to the left a little and see
the large smoothed dirt field ( debris from tunnel excavations ? ),
and a large dirt parking lot. in the upper left corner of the parking
lot you can see what looks to be a rather large underground
door and tunnel access ! as is always the problem with satellite maps
, it would take a " real " look -see to actually discover what is
showing there ! ( ha ... ) I have seen satellite views that show
a couple of semi trucks parked in that lot , along with what seems
to be some military trucks ! dunno what happened to those views , as
the current ones just show the empty parking lot with no vehicles !
they seem to have vanished ! ha h ha haha ha a
I do know that driving up to read the signs will bring the cammo
dudes in a hurry, to be so far out in the middle of nowhere ! you
have VERY little time before the " boys " get there ! on one visit, I
got both a menacing black helicopter and a bit later the cammo dudes
to boot ! seems that it might depend upon what is happening there
( or ? ) as to how seriously they take your presence near the facility
! it's an interesting location, full of mystery and intrigue ! BOY
! ... I'd love to get the 50 cent tour in that location ! what is
that oval all about ???? I have spent mucho time at both Redstone
Arsenal ( near the ammo humpers school ) and at Ft. Hood , and
because of my jobs , always had a lot of EOD buddies. I've seen my
fair share of munitions gathering and disposal and absolutely none of
it looked anything like this place !!! interesting place
.............
k
there was so much unexploded ordinance lying around the tank gunnery
ranges at Ft. Hood , sometimes , that you could load up a 2-by in
about 45 minutes . I got to " off " a whole lot of that material
myself through my EOD buds !! fun ...........
thom...@flash.net
I decided to check to see if the airspace over the Mystery Mound is
restricted and, after a bit of Googling, found
http://skyvector.com/?gclid=CKjEia_R6IICFSS3LAodLzNQ1g
This shows a small circular restriction area modestly named R-4811
there.
Pulling on that thread leads to a sequence of documents that indicate
the place is a munitions disposal area called "New Bomb":
+++++++++++++++++
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0145/data/bodie-4233/nevcalrp.pdf
PROJECT REPORT
FIXED-WING AEROMAGNETIC SURVEY
Amargosa Desert / D eath Valley, San Gregorio North / Point Sur /
Hollister /
Moss Landing, and Bodie-Aurora District, Nevada and California, USA
1999
CONTRACT # 99CRCN0013
for
UNITED STATES GEOLOGICAL SURVEY
Martin Bates, Ph.D. May, 2000
[p.25]
Permission to conduct the survey was granted by Clarence Bohartz of
Reno FSDO. A waiver to fly as low as 500 feet above any towns within
the survey area was granted, although no large urban areas were
affected anyway. Notification of SGL's activities was provided to the
Sheriff of Bridgeport (the only significant town within the survey) in
accordance with the provisions of the waiver. In addition, permission
was obtained to fly over the Hawthorne Army Depot ordinance detonation
site "New Bomb" at restricted area R-4811.
Flights were permitted at all times, except between 11:30 to 15:00
Tuesday through Wednesday, subject to confirmation on the day of the
flight due to the possibility of non-regularly scheduled detonations.
Coordination was arranged with Louis Delmonica and Vicki Coll at the
Army Depot.
++++++++++++++
http://www.faa.gov/ATPUBS/SUAA/SUAA.pdf
R-4811 Hawthorne, NV
Boundaries. A 1 1/2 NM radius circle centered at lat. 38°14'45"N.,
long. 118°38'18"W.
Designated altitudes. Surface to 15,000 feet MSL. Time of designation.
0800 to 1500 local time, Monday-Friday.
Controlling agency. FAA, Oakland ARTCC.
Using agency. Commander, Hawthorne Army
Ammunition Plant, Hawthorne, NV.
AMENDMENTS 5/22/97 62 FR 14633
(Amended)
++++++++++++++++
http://ndep.nv.gov/docs_04/hwad072005_f.pdf
FACT SHEET
NEVADA DIVISION OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
BUREAU OF WASTE MANAGEMENT
FACT SHEET FOR A DRAFT PERMIT (RENEWAL)
HAWTHORNE ARMY DEPOT NEW BOMB HAZARDOUS WASTE FACILITY
EPA ID #NV5210090010
DRAFT PERMIT NUMBER NEV HW0020
The Nevada Division of Environmental Protection (NDEP) has developed
this FACT SHEET for the draft Resource Conservation and Recovery Act
(RCRA) Permit (DRAFT PERMIT) which NDEP intends to issue Hawthorne Army
Depot for their New Bomb facility in Mineral County, Nevada. The DRAFT
PERMIT is based on the renewal application received by NDEP from DZHC
for the continued operation of this hazardous waste management
facility. This FACT SHEET has been prepared in accordance with the
public notice requirements of Nevada Administrative Code (NAC) 444.8632
and Chapter 40 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Section 124.8. The
purpose of this FACT SHEET is to provide interested citizens and other
governmental agencies a summary description of the principal facts and
significant issues NDEP has considered in preparing the draft permit.
FACILITY DESCRIPTION
The Hawthorne Army Depot (HWAD) New Bomb facility is located 22 miles
south of Hawthorne, Nevada on approximately 3183 acres of land in the
Toiyabe National Forest, southwest of Walker Lake in Mineral County,
Nevada. The New Bomb facility is a government-owned contractor-operated
area where treatment by detonation of waste munitions is performed. The
Detonation Unit will treat unusable waste explosive munitions that are
considered RCRA hazardous waste generated from the storage facilities
at the HWAD Main Base facility. The HWAD contractor Day & Zimmermann
Hawthorne Corporation (DZHC) performs the detonation with oversight by
the US Army.
Detonations are conducted above ground to reduce downwind dust
concentrations and reduce potential products of incomplete combustion.
No storage of munitions occurs at the New Bomb facility. Waste
munitions are detonated the same day they arrive.
The New Bomb Detonation Unit covers 743 acres within the approximately
3183 acre New Bomb area, and is used for deactivation by detonation of
explosive munitions that are unserviceable, unstable or where there is
no market for reuse, recycling, or reutilization. Explosive items
typically detonated at New Bomb consist of cartridges, projectiles,
bombs, rockets, artillery, and mortar. When safety and regulatory
requirements allow, explosive munitions will be processed or treated at
the HWAD Main Base Western Area Demilitarization Facility (WADF).
The New Bomb Detonation Unit consists of 20, 20 foot by 6 foot by 4
foot deep earthen pits (10 on each side) at the north and south bases
of an east-to-west oriented hill, surrounded by a box canyon within the
743 acre area. New Bomb has a maximum treatment capacity of: 40,000
lbs/day and 3,000,000 lbs/yr of waste munitions. This capacity may be
limited further due to weather conditions, air quality operating permit
requirements, evidence of soil contamination, or non-compliance with
Permit conditions.
Krackula <>
On 26 Jan 2006 08:38:44 -0800, "thom...@flash.net"
<thom...@flash.net> wrote:
" good work " and all that explains a lot ! especially that oval
area with all those odd looking shapes around the edge of it ! must be
those " pits " the information mentions ! could also explain the
tunnel / s ( if they are actually tunnels ) , as it might be
necessary to keep an eye on the hazardous waste getting into the
ground and possibly even short term storage , even tho they say
nothing is stored there . also , they almost certainly don't
transport the " demolitions " materials back and forth every trip and
that underground entrance could also be a " bunkers / tunnel system
where supplies are stored , and if so, could also explain some of
the high security associated with the facility as well .
guess I'd pass on the " 50 cent tour " considering the place has a
hazardous waste status and all the security to keep people from
getting in there ! none of the EOD disposal areas at Redstone
or Ft Hood have a hazardous waste designation or anything like the
security this place has .... could be some pretty " ugly " stuff lying
around the place , especially if they have to dispose of old and
unstable munitions that couldn't be dismantled safely ...... tho
you'd think they would " off " that stuff in some of the known
incinerators . possibly it's too unstable to transport to those types
of disposal areas and explains why it is so remotely located from
Hawthorne and the NUWTL !
40,000 lbs a day and 3 million lbs a year is a HUGE amount of capacity
ha ha ha aha a ...... that'd be a whopping large amount of disposal
of most of the small munitions mentioned. of course that doesn't mean
there aren't any " large " munitions disposed of there and those could
add up fast ! between the NUWTL and the Army munitions storage at
Hawthorne , it's a VAST facility and it probably takes a place with 3
mil lbs a year to handle all the action. sounds like a LOT of
potentially hazardous munitions must go unstable or risky on a
regular basis to need a facility like this ! ( instead of simply
getting demilled )
guess that answers a LOT of questions about the place , thanks for
all the info, pretty kewl work !!! interesting place
.........
k
thom...@flash.net
there are few to no mentions of the activities associated with New
Bomb. I'd have thought that transportation of ordnance from Hawthorne
there would be accompanied by noticeable security and, possibly, the
adjacent segment of SR 359 might be closed off during explosive
operations.
Also, those operations probably were sometimes noisy and otherwise
conspicuous. The area is in a national forest, there are walking
trails in the area. You'd think someone would have remarked on it.
I did find a Usenet posting from 1994 describing a glider flight in the
area on 7 July 1993 that confirms that loud noises were sometimes
produced:
"Halfway to the Whites, the whistling of the air is broken
by a low frequency, thunder-like rumble. The ship
reverberates from one, then another sharp report. My
body tenses up. Thunder? Impossible. The clouds
aren't overdeveloping. Sonic boom? I'm not near an
MOA. Another sharp BLAST from my left side. I look
east and not 5 miles way I see a third, fourth, and fifth
blast flash at the R-4811 ammunition testing area.
Enormous clouds of dense, boiling dust a thousand yards
across rise from the desert floor. A few seconds after
each blast, a concussion wave hits the ship like a fist
whacking my wing. It's fascinating, seeing this
atmospheric amoebae grow and change shape while it
blows skyward at 15 - 20 knots. Just like those 1950's
A-bomb tests."
mi...@sushi.com
the trees!"
They have a glider fest of sorts at the civilian Tonopah airport (TPH)
once a year. I was in the area of the ranges (though not near Tonoaph)
once when this event was happening and heard a live radio show
originating from Tonopah, on probably KDWN. What got my attention was a
guy saying he flew over Bald Mountain. However, there is another Bald
Mountain in the general area. I think it is north of route 6.
BTW, thanks for the research on R-4811. From my records, these should
be the waypoints:
38.2458 118.6064
38.2419 118.6069
38.2381 118.6080
38.2344 118.6100
38.2311 118.6126
38.2281 118.6158
38.2255 118.6196
38.2235 118.6239
38.2219 118.6285
38.2210 118.6334
38.2207 118.6383
38.2209 118.6433
38.2218 118.6482
38.2234 118.6528
38.2254 118.6571
38.2280 118.6609
38.2310 118.6642
38.2344 118.6668
38.2380 118.6687
38.2419 118.6699
38.2458 118.6702
38.2498 118.6698
38.2536 118.6686
38.2572 118.6667
38.2606 118.6641
38.2636 118.6609
38.2661 118.6571
38.2682 118.6528
38.2697 118.6482
38.2706 118.6433
38.2709 118.6383
38.2706 118.6334
38.2697 118.6285
38.2682 118.6239
38.2661 118.6196
38.2636 118.6158
38.2606 118.6126
38.2572 118.6100
38.2536 118.6080
38.2498 118.6069
Digging around the net, it seems like glider pilots are the most
concerned about special use airspace, probably because their travels
are not exactly planned.
Krackula <>
On 26 Jan 2006 12:37:33 -0800, mi...@sushi.com wrote:
>Often in regards to the Toiyabe National Forest, one asks "where are
>the trees!"
>
>
>thom...@flash.net wrote:
>> One thing that struck me as strange while researching this is that
>> there are few to no mentions of the activities associated with New
>> Bomb. I'd have thought that transportation of ordnance from Hawthorne
>> there would be accompanied by noticeable security and, possibly, the
>> adjacent segment of SR 359 might be closed off during explosive
>> operations.
well exactly !!! as miso says , there isn't much actual forrest
around there .. it's pretty much just barren desolate desert and
sparse scrub stuff , no water there , anywhere. one of the driest
places you'll run across !
you are right about the highway being closed off as well. they
frequently close off the highway , mostly in the mornings. from
my experience there , tho, it's been due to weapons testing from
Hawthorne that is most often the reason why. as you drive towards
Hawthorne from Mono Lake , once into Nevada you will come upon
a portable road sign mentioning the closings, and a pile of traffic
cones. when they close the road, cammo dudes man the road block
and only let in locals and people with business in the area.
sometimes you have to wait some time before they will let you pass.
it happens most week days in the mornings before noon or so !
>>
>> Also, those operations probably were sometimes noisy and otherwise
>> conspicuous. The area is in a national forest, there are walking
>> trails in the area. You'd think someone would have remarked on it.
we have part of a mine in the area , on Lucky Boy Pass . ( Lucky Boy
mine, not far from the bomb disposal site and overlooks Hawthorne ,
down in the valley ) it's a mine that has been dead since the turn
of the 20th century. it's on the lucky boy pass road, that connects
Hawthorne to the ghost town of Bodie ! it runs behind the bomb
disposal site area. you do see an occasional vehicle on that road
and a prospector or two out there but basically it's about 4" of
powder dry silt , 8000' alt, on top of barren land and an extremely
hostile place to be taking hikes. probably doesn't attract too many
outdoors types around that area. it is all mostly open public land
, tho , but if you got stuck or broke down out there , you could
spend days before you saw anyone. no cell service out there as well
..... not even any broadcast radio stations and absolutely no
drinking water anywhere until you get to Hawthorne.
the skies are busy with jet planes, missiles tests , flares ,
smoke trails , explosions and a lot of activity quite a bit of the
time. bombs going off are probably so common that locals wouldn't
even notice the noise from the disposal site ! ( kinda like Ft.
Hood if you've ever been there ) most of it is weapons testing
( I'd guess ) related to NUWTL , or ( ha hah ah ) maybe it IS
partly the bomb disposal site after all !!!! Hawthorne has a large
artillery range and nearby a large mobile missile launcher site
( tucked into the hills south of Hawthorne so that you can't see it
from the main road in Hawthorne and town but easy to see when coming
in from California ) . when they close off the local highways , they
use those areas along the highway ( 359 ) for their plane and
missile testing ranges. kinda an odd way to do things ! I keep
hoping that I'll find some real kewl souvenirs lying around the road
when I drive through there ! h ah ahah a haa
theres other VERY interesting stuff to go see , out there, that I
wouldn't want to mention here. I highly recommend going
out and exploring and if you keep a sharp eye you'll most likely
stumble on it as I have !!! lots of fun looking and VERY interesting
stuff to run across , but sometimes a little scary !!