4 Bad Motherboards in a row?
Samson
for Core 2 Duo systems with the new Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 motherboard. I got
2 of the motherboards from Newegg and the other 2 from ZipZoomFly. I have
an E6300, E6400 and 2 x E6600 processors to go with them, along with
DDR2-533 1.8v sticks from Mushkin for all of them. Two of the systems have
Mushkin 550Watt PSUs, and the other two have Antec TruePower2 550s. All 4
have different cases, graphics, optical, hard drives, etc.
The problem:
All four builds are giving me the same exact issue. When powered up for the
first time, all of them each power on for maybe 2-3 seconds, then power off,
then power on again for another 2 seconds, then power off again...and again
forever and ever, until I flip the power switch on the PSU. The only
activity seen when they briefly power on is that the CPU and case fans spin
for a moment. That's it...no graphic output, no BIOS beeps...nada.
Initially, these symptoms made me think that the motherboard was shorting
out or a faulty PSU.
What I've done to verify what's wrong:
1. Tried each motherboard outside of the cases as well as installed
properly in the cases, making sure that no shorts were happening. When
trying them outside of the cases, no case pinouts were connected. I just
shorted the power button pinouts briefly on each board to start them up, in
order to rule out faulty case power button connections.
2. Tried with no peripheral except CPU, heatsink/fan, 1 stick memory and
graphics card. Made sure that the CPU fan was plugged in properly on all
four boards.
3. Tried different combinations of known-good memory (single/dual channel)
in all slots in all boards, as well as different known-good power supplies
and graphics cards on all four boards. These are standard spec 1.8 volt
DDR2-533 memory sticks, chosen to run synchronously with the motherboard/CPU
1066 MHz Front Side Bus.
4. Checked all PSU connections to all boards numerous times, thinking I was
going insane. Each motherboard has a 24-pin ATX connector, 8-pin 12V EPS
connector and a 4-pin standard Molex connector for providing extra 12V to
PCI-Express graphics cards. All 4 power supplies (different reputable
models) have the proper 24-pin, 8-pin and Molex connectors, and they're all
plugged in securely and correctly in each motherboard. All graphics cards
have the 6-pin PCI-Express power cable attached to each card.
5. I even double-checked the UPS power sources that the power supplies were
connected to, to rule out the possibility of something being wrong with the
building's wiring. Other working systems, when plugged into them, work just
fine.
The only common denominator between all four builds is the motherboard and
the brand/type of memory, but each memory stick has been tested in other
systems...so I'm out of ideas, except to come to the conclusion that all 4
motherboards are DOA.
Anyone have any clues? I did see a couple mentions of the same problem with
the same board by Googling forum posts. There is this "CrazyCool heatsink
that Gigabyte puts on the back of the boards, possibly shorting something
else out on each board, but I'm not going to rip them off to find out
I'm just thinking: one board, even maybe two could be a possibility with a
new motherboard release...but 4 in a row from different distributors? I'd
very much appreciate any input anyone could provide.
Dan
the 4-pin CPU power plugs on these motherboards?
"Samson" <sam...@comcast.dotnet> wrote in message news:r7KdnZZVsP_hAmPZ...@comcast.com...
johns
I've seen this on one model of Gigabyte mobo.
The problem was incompatibility between the
mobo BIOS and the ATI 9800 graphics card.
The mobo had a VIA chipset, and from that
day on I made sure I only used GA boards
with nVidia chipsets. One thing for sure ..
you should only get bundles from Mwave.com
if you are building for profit and reliability. The
way you are going, you only have warranty
on each part from its respective manufacturer.
That is a lot of hassle to RMA ram to one,
cpu to another, and mobo to another. Nuts
to that. That way, Mwave gets to crank it
up before they ship it, and you won't have
that problem again.
johns
johns
Forgot. I also ran into another brand of Gigabyte mobo
that I could not seat Kingston ram in to save my life.
It would just not go, even after the "click". I could flip
the board over, and the ram stick would fall out at
one corner.
johns
Samson
"Dan" <DJM_i...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:qNxLg.15735$Qf.1...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Sorry if I missed this info, but are you making sure to plug in
> the 4-pin CPU power plugs on these motherboards?
As stated, these motherboards use the newer EPS 4x4-pin CPU power plugs,
like 2 of the 4-pin plugs put together, and yes, they're plugged in.
Chris Hill
wrote:
Any need to build another machine? If so, buy a different brand mb
and see what happens with it. This kind of thing really takes the fun
out of building systems.
Rod Speed
You can eliminate the memory too, try with no memory.
It should keep running and whine about no memory.
Worth trying with no video card too in case its that thats the problem.
Thats the most likely given you dont see too many howling about that
motherboard.
> so I'm out of ideas, except to come to the conclusion that all 4 motherboards
> are DOA.
If they are that bad, you'd expect the sellers
to be being deluged with pissed off customers.
> Anyone have any clues?
You should reset the cmos setting with a jumper etc and make sure
that motherboard doesnt come with the jumper in the reset position.
> I did see a couple mentions of the same problem with the same board by
> Googling forum posts.
You'd expect more than a couple if there is some fundamental problem.
Can you try it with an older cpu to check if its some Gigabyte stupidity ?
They do tend to shove stuff out the door too quickly and hope they can
fix the remaining design flaws with a new bios. Quite often they end up
having to redesign the motherboard and you can see that in the rev levels.
> There is this "CrazyCool heatsink that Gigabyte puts on the back of the
> boards, possibly shorting something else out on each board, but I'm not going
> to rip them off to find out
Could certainly be that.
> I'm just thinking: one board, even maybe two could be a possibility with a
> new motherboard release...but 4 in a row from different distributors?
Could obviously be gigabyte not supporting the Core 2 Duo properly yet, which
is why I'd try an older cpu to see if you get the same symptoms with that.
If you dont, try the latest bios.
Samson
MicroATX 945G-based Core 2 Duo system (Gigabyte GA-945GM-S2 motherboard) and
am expecting shipment of that motherboard in a day or two.
"Chris Hill" <chill_map...@centurytel.net> wrote in message
news:uv2uf2d60dgu3hoic...@4ax.com...
Samson
part of the troubleshooting also included removing all memory and graphics
card to just try powering up with only CPU and heatsink installed to see
whether I'd at least get a beep out of the board. I tried this on 2 of the
four boards (after resetting CMOS by shorting out CMOS jumpers.) Same
problem (just continual power on/power off after 2-3 seconds with no beeps.)
These boards have CMOS jumper pins just underneath the battery, but they
ship without a jumper attached, in order to eliminate the possibility of
someone trying to start up the system for the first time with CMOS clear
jumpers shorted.
I posted a similar message to the Toms Hardware Guide Gigabyte Motherboard
Forum, and soon thereafter, several people replied, reported staying up all
night with the same problem with the same motherboard...so I at least know
I'm not alone.
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4m8gtgF...@individual.net...
Rod Speed
> Thanks for responding, Rod. I didn't mention it in my original post,
> but part of the troubleshooting also included removing all memory and
> graphics card to just try powering up with only CPU and heatsink
> installed to see whether I'd at least get a beep out of the board. I
> tried this on 2 of the four boards (after resetting CMOS by shorting
> out CMOS jumpers.) Same problem (just continual power on/power off
> after 2-3 seconds with no beeps.) These boards have CMOS jumper pins
> just underneath the battery, but they ship without a jumper attached,
> in order to eliminate the possibility of someone trying to start up
> the system for the first time with CMOS clear jumpers shorted.
> I posted a similar message to the Toms Hardware Guide Gigabyte
> Motherboard Forum, and soon thereafter, several people replied,
> reported staying up all night with the same problem with the same
> motherboard...so I at least know I'm not alone.
OK, I'd see what Gigabyte has to say then.
I'd also use an older cpu and update the bios too if there is a later one.
Samson
the boards and...still the same.
I'd love to update the BIOS if the could get the $%#@ things to power up
long enough to have a POST screen. I'm waiting on a callback from Mushkin
to try out different memory, but at this point, it looks like actually all 4
motherboard are just DOA.
Incredible.
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4m8p2hF...@individual.net...
johns
My vote is kludged BIOS. I know Gigabyte does that,
and will even have an incompatible setting in that
BIOS which can be the default setting ... example:
GA-K8NS first version out for the AMD 64 Athlon
3000+. I had to put that setting to "high performance",
or the mobo would not boot at all. The next version
of the board ran fine with the default settings. Also,
I discovered that there is no way to upgrade the
original board BIOS without dragging the mobo to
its knees. I had to restore the original BIOS to get
it to work ... and it worked fine like that. Right now,
I have a whole lab full of machines running the latest
version of that board. They all run fine except if I
try to run an image utility from the hard drive, the
utility writes over the boot sector, and I have to sys
the drives to recover. Again, that is clearly a BIOS
problem, and I can get around it by running the
image utillity from a boot floppy ... no problems
at all ... except, if I have to RE-image the drive, I
can do it from the boot floppy, but afterwards,
the D-partition has been deleted ????????? and
I have to restore that partition in Disk Manager,
and run the image utility again. Eh, big deal!
The boards run great otherwise.
johns
Rod Speed
> I had a Pentium D 930 lying around, so I installed and tried that on one of
> the boards and...still the same.
Then I'd be kicking Gigabyte.
> I'd love to update the BIOS if the could get the $%#@ things to power up long
> enough to have a POST screen.
Is there a later bios available ?
> I'm waiting on a callback from Mushkin to try out different memory,
Cant be that because you get the same
effect with no memory or video card.
> but at this point, it looks like actually all 4 motherboard are just DOA.
> Incredible.
Unbelievable, actually. Its gotta be a dud bios that
gigabyte was actually stupid enough to ship it with.
Rod Speed
> My vote is kludged BIOS.
Yeah, mine too.
> I know Gigabyte does that, and will even have an incompatible
> setting in that BIOS which can be the default setting ... example:
> GA-K8NS first version out for the AMD 64 Athlon 3000+. I had to
> put that setting to "high performance", or the mobo would not boot
> at all. The next version of the board ran fine with the default settings.
Yeah, I avoid Gigabyte for that reason, they ship stuff
too early presumably to get a jump on their competitors.
> Also, I discovered that there is no way to upgrade
> the original board BIOS without dragging the mobo
> to its knees. I had to restore the original BIOS to
> get it to work ... and it worked fine like that.
> Right now, I have a whole lab full of machines
> running the latest version of that board.
Thats the other thing I dont like about Gigabyte, too
many versions of a particular board, evidence that
they ship it too early before its been properly tested.
> They all run fine except if I try to run an image utility from
> the hard drive, the utility writes over the boot sector,
It wont if you use a decent modern imager.
> and I have to sys the drives to recover.
> Again, that is clearly a BIOS problem,
Dunno.
> and I can get around it by running the image
> utillity from a boot floppy ... no problems at all ...
> except, if I have to RE-image the drive, I can
> do it from the boot floppy, but afterwards,
> the D-partition has been deleted ????????? and
> I have to restore that partition in Disk Manager,
> and run the image utility again. Eh, big deal!
Wota mess.
Samson
online reviews singing its praises. I don't know what the shipping BIOS
version on these particular boards I have right now is, probably F1 (if I
could get a POST screen to tell me) but F3 has been out for 3 weeks or so,
which is supposed to improve voltage/memory compatibility.
I'd more suspect just a bad run of hardware, not the BIOS file, due to
others being able to get this board model to work out of the box.
I've used Gigabyte boards for years with no issues to speak of...many more
problems with boards I've used from Asus, Abit and DFI. It looks like
general all-around quality control at all the big board manufacturing plants
in Taiwan is going down, but what do I know.
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4m8u2gF...@individual.net...
johns
Me too. I'm a good customer of the Gigabyte boards.
I just know that they are not perfect, and sometimes
I've had to stand my ground with them about RMA.
Also, I just read one site that the guy was having
problems until he upgraded to the F3 BIOS. Who
knows? Sooner or later Gigabyte comes around
and you get a fix.
johns
Rod Speed
> Many others have received this board and have it running fine.
Not necessarily the same bios as yours tho.
> Lots of online reviews singing its praises. I don't know what the shipping
> BIOS version on these particular boards I have right now is, probably F1 (if I
> could get a POST screen to tell me) but F3 has been out for 3 weeks or so,
> which is supposed to improve voltage/memory compatibility.
> I'd more suspect just a bad run of hardware, not the BIOS file,
Very bloody unlikely indeed with 4 bads in a row.
> due to others being able to get this board model to work out of the box.
Most likely a different bios.
Why dont you ask gigabyte ?
> I've used Gigabyte boards for years with no issues to speak of...
> many more problems with boards I've used from Asus, Abit and DFI. It looks
> like general all-around quality control at all the big board manufacturing
> plants in Taiwan is going down,
Havent seen any evidence of that.
> but what do I know.
Indeed.
Jan Alter
Have you been using the same make PS on all these builds?
--
Jan Alter
bea...@verizon.net
or
jal...@phila.k12.pa.us
Samson
> Samson <sam...@comcast.dotnet> wrote
>
>> Many others have received this board and have it running fine.
>
> Not necessarily the same bios as yours tho.
Well, the board's only been out in the USA for a month or so, and I just
received all of these mobos in when they became in-stock again. It's not
like it was old revision product sitting on Newegg's stock shelves for
months.
>
>> Lots of online reviews singing its praises. I don't know what the
>> shipping BIOS version on these particular boards I have right now is,
>> probably F1 (if I could get a POST screen to tell me) but F3 has been out
>> for 3 weeks or so, which is supposed to improve voltage/memory
>> compatibility.
>
>> I'd more suspect just a bad run of hardware, not the BIOS file,
>
> Very bloody unlikely indeed with 4 bads in a row.
Really, then why did a Newegg rep tell me yesterday that they had a pallete
of over 200 defective Gigabyte motherboards (DS3 version) that had to be
returned to Taiwan for replacement, per Gigabyte's instructions? That would
indicate to me some sort of batch run hardware issue, would it not?
>> due to others being able to get this board model to work out of the box.
>
> Most likely a different bios.
>
> Why dont you ask gigabyte ?
That's the first place I contacted. I've heard no reply to 2 online service
request forms filled out yet, but I'll post back what they have to say when
and if I hear from them.
>> I've used Gigabyte boards for years with no issues to speak of...
>> many more problems with boards I've used from Asus, Abit and DFI. It
>> looks like general all-around quality control at all the big board
>> manufacturing plants in Taiwan is going down,
>
> Havent seen any evidence of that.
>
>> but what do I know.
>
> Indeed.
Thanks for your support. Don't bother to follow this particular thread any
longer if you think the posts on it are coming from drooling idiots with
somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,500+ system builds under their belt; it
will waste your time. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of a motherboard
quality/compatibility issue that is causing problems for myself and other
owners of this board.
Samson
"Jan Alter" <bea...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:8OJLg.3064$m36.2443@trnddc02...
> Have you been using the same make PS on all these builds?
>
>
> --
> Jan Alter
> bea...@verizon.net
> or
> jal...@phila.k12.pa.us
>
No Jan. As stated in the original post, I've tried 2 separate Antec
TruePower2 550W PSUs and 2 separate Mushkin HP-550 550W PSUs. I am going to
Mushkin's office tomorrow to have them help me try out alternate memory
using different chips, mainly to finally eliminate the faulty memory
possibility before returning all these motherboards to Gigabyte for RMA.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Samson <sam...@comcast.dotnet> wrote
>>> Many others have received this board and have it running fine.
>> Not necessarily the same bios as yours tho.
> Well, the board's only been out in the USA for a month or so, and I
> just received all of these mobos in when they became in-stock again.
So it isnt unlikely that they have a different bios.
> It's not like it was old revision product sitting on Newegg's stock shelves
> for months.
Yes, its likely that Gigabyte stuffed up with the bios.
>>> Lots of online reviews singing its praises. I don't know what the
>>> shipping BIOS version on these particular boards I have right now
>>> is, probably F1 (if I could get a POST screen to tell me) but F3
>>> has been out for 3 weeks or so, which is supposed to improve
>>> voltage/memory compatibility.
>>> I'd more suspect just a bad run of hardware, not the BIOS file,
>> Very bloody unlikely indeed with 4 bads in a row.
> Really,
Yep.
> then why did a Newegg rep tell me yesterday that they had a pallete of over
> 200 defective Gigabyte motherboards (DS3 version) that had to be returned to
> Taiwan for replacement, per Gigabyte's instructions?
Likely those have a bios that doesnt allow the bios to be
updated so the bad bios cant be flashed with the correct bios.
> That would indicate to me some sort of batch run hardware issue, would it not?
Not necessarily, a bios that doesnt allow it to be
flashed with a fixed bios would get the same result.
>>> due to others being able to get this board model to work out of the box.
>> Most likely a different bios.
>> Why dont you ask gigabyte ?
> That's the first place I contacted.
You should have said so.
> I've heard no reply to 2 online service request forms filled out yet, but I'll
> post back what they have to say when and if I hear from them.
>>> I've used Gigabyte boards for years with no issues to speak of...
>>> many more problems with boards I've used from Asus, Abit and DFI. It looks
>>> like general all-around quality control at all the big
>>> board manufacturing plants in Taiwan is going down,
>> Havent seen any evidence of that.
>>> but what do I know.
>> Indeed.
> Thanks for your support. Don't bother to follow this particular
> thread any longer if you think the posts on it are coming from
> drooling idiots with somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,500+ system
> builds under their belt; it will waste your time.
I'm quite happy to keep rubbing your nose in the basics,
like the fact that its pointless trying different memory when
it wont even whine about the lack of memory when you
try it with no memory or video card and has the same
symptoms as seen when there is memory and video card.
> I'm just trying to get to the bottom of a motherboard quality/compatibility
> issue that is causing problems for myself and other owners of this board.
Sure, but you appear to have a problem with the most
basic logic, and you may eventually be able to work out
those basics if your nose is rubbed in them often enough.
The number of system builds is completely irrelevant, there
are plenty of examples of those who manage to stumble
thru while lacking in the most basic diagnostic/logic skills.
They essentially waste some time but can get there
in the long run using a shotgun approach.
Samson
>
> I'm quite happy to keep rubbing your nose in the basics,
> like the fact that its pointless trying different memory when
> it wont even whine about the lack of memory when you
> try it with no memory or video card and has the same
> symptoms as seen when there is memory and video card.
>
> basic logic, and you may eventually be able to work out
> those basics if your nose is rubbed in them often enough.
>
> The number of system builds is completely irrelevant, there
> are plenty of examples of those who manage to stumble
> thru while lacking in the most basic diagnostic/logic skills.
> They essentially waste some time but can get there
> in the long run using a shotgun approach.
OK...I spent an hour with Brian at Mushkin today (great guy, by the way.)
Problem solved!!
It was the memory! I was using their standard EM2-4200 (DR2-533) 1GB
sticks, which is spec'd at a standard 1.8v. They're based on Micron chips,
which seem to have issues with the new P965 chipset. He had some Infineon
chip-based 1 GB memory sticks (DDR2-533) with the same SPD latencies, and as
soon as we popped them in, the system booted up like a champ! Tried
DDR2-667 and DDR2-800 as well, and all OK.
If you want to use Mushkin, buy it direct from their website at
http://www.mushkin.com and specifically ask for Infineon chips, and you
should be good to go. Online retailers like Newegg and ZZF probably have
the Mushkin sticks with Micron chips.
This whole thing was so weird, because the constant power-off/power-on 3
second cycle was occurring even with no memory in the board with no BIOS
beeps, which would lead one to suspect the power supply, a shorted board, or
a hardware/BIOS issue with the board. It was just a simple case of
incompatible chips on the memory sticks.
I'm sure glad we got everything sorted out, and I do hope this helps some of
you others having this problem with the GA-965P-DQ6.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> I'm quite happy to keep rubbing your nose in the basics,
> It was the memory!
Maybe, odd that Gigabyte told them to return the pallet load tho.
> This whole thing was so weird, because the constant power-off/
> power-on 3 second cycle was occurring even with no memory in the board with no
> BIOS beeps, which would lead one to suspect the
> power supply, a shorted board, or a hardware/BIOS issue with the
> board. It was just a simple case of incompatible chips on the memory
> sticks.
That is one hell of an inditement of gigabyte that the bios is that fucked
and that it got past the tests gigabyte did before shipping that bios.
Rod Speed
Samson
version BIOS. I've flashed to F3 (latest official, although there are
various beta F4 versions floating around) and all seems solid so far with 2
of the boards undergoing testing under stock speeds/SPD settings. I'll play
around with tightening up timings/overclocking tomorrow to see how things
go, since the memory is rated 1.8-2.3v.
Brian (Mushkin) did say that a lot of Asus boards based on the 965 series
Intel chipsets were having similar issues; I can't comment, as the last Asus
board I installed had the nForce 4 SLI chipset, but I do know Asus'
reputation for their enthusiast boards being extremely finicky with RAM.
Anyway, hope this helps out someone else.
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4mbuldF...@individual.net...
Samson
compatibility with the various beta BIOS versions floating around. Of well,
things not too dissimilar to this often happen anytime the latest the
greatest comes out and all the board manufacturer's trip over one another to
try to be the first out the door with the new technology.
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4mbuq3F...@individual.net...
Jan Alter
> Yeah, troubling to me too. By the way, these 4 boards all shipped with F2
> version BIOS. I've flashed to F3 (latest official, although there are
> various beta F4 versions floating around) and all seems solid so far with
> 2 of the boards undergoing testing under stock speeds/SPD settings. I'll
> play around with tightening up timings/overclocking tomorrow to see how
> things go, since the memory is rated 1.8-2.3v.
>
> Brian (Mushkin) did say that a lot of Asus boards based on the 965 series
> Intel chipsets were having similar issues; I can't comment, as the last
> Asus board I installed had the nForce 4 SLI chipset, but I do know Asus'
> reputation for their enthusiast boards being extremely finicky with RAM.
>
I appreciate you posting to share the problem and glad you kept us informed
of your findings. Sorry I missed your mentioning the PS when you first
stated the dilemma. Gigabyte ought to be shipping you a dozen boards gratus
for the sleuthing you've done, or perhaps the aggravation you've endured for
their lack of thoroughness.