Program similar to FindRun Robot
No I'm Spartacus
I'm looking for a freeware program similar to Find&Run Robot.
http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Mouser/findrun/index.html
I don't consider this program freeware because you have to sign up for
their forums to generate a licence key for it...only you find out when
you sign up that the key expires every 180 days, whereupon you have to
generate another one (as the program stops working). The only way to
get a eternal key is to pay for the program.
So, anyone have any suggestions? What I want to do is to type a folder
name into the program, and have it open that folder in my file
manager.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
tf76
tf76
Hengist_Ludd
over just your point. Or join the forum (which is free) and beg and plead
for a better key with Mouser, who is entirely too generous for his own
good. Or, try an alternative that was mentioned in a DonationCoder forum
posting on FARR;
Mayk
http://www.beotel.net/~darkdst/
Freeware
jm...@webace.com.au
folder on your desktop named > Shortcuts.
No I'm Spartacus
>DONATIONCODERS rocks
>
>tf76
Which totally ignores my question. If you don't have an answer, then
no need to post.
Thank you.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
No I'm Spartacus
>You could make shortcuts of all the programs you want & place them in a
>folder on your desktop named > Shortcuts.
It's not programs I want. It's folders. And there are thousands of
them - too many for that method.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
No I'm Spartacus
Hm, that looked promising. I tried it out, but it doesn't work. There
is no way that I can see to add folders to it (though with the
thousands I have, I wouldn't want to - I would want the program to
automatically just search through them), no way I can see to add a
path (say e:\programs, where I store all my downloaded programs in
spearate folders per program) to get folder searches, and when I type
in an example folder (say 'batch'), nothing happens.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
Azzman
news:lnedp1p58ibqfhhb1...@4ax.com:
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a freeware program similar to Find&Run Robot.
> http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Mouser/findrun/index.html
How about this one ?
--
Azzman
David
>You could make shortcuts of all the programs you want & place them in a
>folder on your desktop named > Shortcuts.
Then make a toolbar of that folder and single click your favourite
programs.
--
David
Remove "farook" to reply
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
E-mail: justdas at iinet dot net dot au
No I'm Spartacus
wrote:
>On 7 Dec 2005 03:39:35 -0800, jm...@webace.com.au typed furiously:
>
>>You could make shortcuts of all the programs you want & place them in a
>>folder on your desktop named > Shortcuts.
>
>Then make a toolbar of that folder and single click your favourite
>programs.
Spread out over quite a few subdirectories - I would have to make
folders for all the main root folders. Wouldn't work. I simply want to
be able to more quickly access any folder I want in my file manager.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
No I'm Spartacus
Looks promising - but it isn't freeware. It's shareware.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
Saxman
I found the utility very good, but like you couldn't be bothered with it in
the end. It's pop-up message mad as well. Turn your computer clock
forward and up comes another message!
No I'm Spartacus
Yeah, I know what you mean Saxman. It is so frustrating to have come
so close to finding a freeware that does this. FindRun as I mentioned
I don't consider freeware because it stops working after 6 months if
you don't pay for an eternal licence. Mayk is free yes - and small
which is nice - but it doesn't seem to do anything. It says on the
webpage that it can be used to quickly access start menu shortcuts and
the like, but I couldn't even get it to do that - let alone access
folders on a hard drive. And ShellSearch is shareware, and as you
said, pop-up mad. The odd thing is, what prompted me to search for an
app like this was I thought I was reading a freeware site the other
day that mentioned an app like this - and there are only a few
freeware sites I have in my favourites (and not all of those I go to -
the list of the sites I visit is below):
List of Lists
Nonags
Pricelessware List
SnapFiles Freeware (WebAttack)
The Portable Freeware Collection
Now I looked on those 5 sites again today, and do you think I could
find that app I thought I read about the other day? Sadly no Maybe I
dreamed that I read about the app - who knows.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
Saxman
>
> Yeah, I know what you mean Saxman. It is so frustrating to have come
> so close to finding a freeware that does this. FindRun as I mentioned
> I don't consider freeware because it stops working after 6 months if
> you don't pay for an eternal licence. Mayk is free yes - and small
> which is nice - but it doesn't seem to do anything. It says on the
> webpage that it can be used to quickly access start menu shortcuts and
> the like, but I couldn't even get it to do that - let alone access
> folders on a hard drive. And ShellSearch is shareware, and as you
> said, pop-up mad. The odd thing is, what prompted me to search for an
> app like this was I thought I was reading a freeware site the other
> day that mentioned an app like this - and there are only a few
> freeware sites I have in my favourites (and not all of those I go to -
> the list of the sites I visit is below):
What I meant to say earlier while replacing the motherboard battery
recently and re-booting, I got another message on the lines of "You have
been using Find and Run Robot for 365 days, please make a donation."
This is not quite the same, but is freeware and popular. It scans the hard
drive first, which takes about 30 seconds for 70000+ files (pretty quick).
You can opt to have it run at start-up (I chose not to), or just execute it
when you need to. One can create hotkeys with it etc........., but it
differs from Find and Run Robot in the respect that the exe files are not
always at the top of a listing.
See what you think?
doodad
"No I'm Spartacus" <re...@to.newsgroup.only> a écrit dans le message de
news:g1jdp1tvam2vs03n5...@4ax.com...
with slickrun ...
http://www.bayden.com/slickrun/
you can have something near what you're looking for.
for exemple, you can param a 'magic word' as following for opening in the
windows explorer a folder in drive D: named 'backup':
filename : %SystemRoot%\explorer.exe
Parameters : /e,/root,d:\ select,D:\backup
Doodad
Azzman
> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:16:11 -0000, Azzman <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>No I'm Spartacus <re...@to.newsgroup.only> wrote in
>>news:lnedp1p58ibqfhhb1...@4ax.com:
>>> I'm looking for a freeware program similar to Find&Run Robot.
>>> http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Mouser/findrun/index.html
>>
>>How about this one ?
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/dhqq3
>
> Looks promising - but it isn't freeware. It's shareware.
My bad, I remember using this a couple of years ago, could have sworn it
was freeware. But still I should have read better.
--
Azzman
FirstName LastName
You could try Ava Find http://www.think-less-do-more.com/avafind/
It creates a index of all your files and folders. Then you only have to
search for that folder and push enter. If know the name of the folder
its easy and fast.
John Fitzsimons
<re...@to.newsgroup.only> wrote:
>Hi,
>I'm looking for a freeware program similar to Find&Run Robot.
>http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Mouser/findrun/index.html
>I don't consider this program freeware because you have to sign up for
>their forums to generate a licence key for it...only you find out when
>you sign up that the key expires every 180 days, whereupon you have to
>generate another one (as the program stops working). The only way to
>get a eternal key is to pay for the program.
< snip >
Added to that is one can end up getting spam from them asking for
"donations". I suggest that people stay well clear of these people. A
nasty way of selling shareware IMO.
Regards, John.
jm...@webace.com.au
Registry Trash Keys Finder
http://www.databack4u.com/snc/rtkf_eng.html
Nunya Bizniss
news:lnedp1p58ibqfhhb1...@4ax.com...
Hi,
I'm looking for a freeware program similar to Find&Run Robot.
http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Mouser/findrun/index.html
Just a thought, among all the other suggestions made here...
I've used an early build of F&R for ages, v1.05.12.
It doesn't exhibit the behaviour described.
I don't recall having to "register" it at all, just download and use it.
If a copy of that would assist you - you're more than welcome.
I wasn't even aware that it had been developed further, I'm getting old.
No I'm Spartacus
>
>with slickrun ...
>http://www.bayden.com/slickrun/
>you can have something near what you're looking for.
>
>for exemple, you can param a 'magic word' as following for opening in the
>windows explorer a folder in drive D: named 'backup':
>filename : %SystemRoot%\explorer.exe
>Parameters : /e,/root,d:\ select,D:\backup
>
>Doodad
>
Hi Doodad,
That's a nice little utility - thanks for pointing that one out! :-)
Not quite what I was after, but I can actually put that one to another
use on my PC <grin>
--
Regards,
Spartacus
No I'm Spartacus
<john.h.williams(removethis)@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>What I meant to say earlier while replacing the motherboard battery
>recently and re-booting, I got another message on the lines of "You have
>been using Find and Run Robot for 365 days, please make a donation."
>
>This is not quite the same, but is freeware and popular. It scans the hard
>drive first, which takes about 30 seconds for 70000+ files (pretty quick).
>
>You can opt to have it run at start-up (I chose not to), or just execute it
>when you need to. One can create hotkeys with it etc........., but it
>differs from Find and Run Robot in the respect that the exe files are not
>always at the top of a listing.
>
>See what you think?
>
>http://tinyurl.com/93teu
Hi Saxman,
Hm, Instant File Name Search eh? It looks interesting - what I could
do is set my file manager (Total Commander) to take over from Windows
Explorer as the default for opening folders, do a search in I.F.N.S
and when I get a result, double click on it to open it in TC. That's
an alternative way to do what I wanted. I think I will give it a go.
Will post back here with my results.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
No I'm Spartacus
<first...@erehwon.com> wrote:
>
>You could try Ava Find http://www.think-less-do-more.com/avafind/
>
>It creates a index of all your files and folders. Then you only have to
>search for that folder and push enter. If know the name of the folder
>its easy and fast.
Yes, that would work too. Especially if, like I said in my reply to
Saxman, I set my file manager (Total Commander) to take over from
Windows Explorer when it comes to opening folders. Find it in either
Instant File Name Search (Saxman's suggestion), or AVA Find, and a
double click or enter should open it in TC. Well, I'll give both
I.N.F.S and Ava a go, and see which one I like best. I'll probably
throw in Agent Ransack as well - I've seen it recommended in this
group before, and I should be able to do the same thing.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
No I'm Spartacus
wrote:
>
>Just a thought, among all the other suggestions made here...
>I've used an early build of F&R for ages, v1.05.12.
>It doesn't exhibit the behaviour described.
>I don't recall having to "register" it at all, just download and use it.
>If a copy of that would assist you - you're more than welcome.
>I wasn't even aware that it had been developed further, I'm getting old.
>
Hm, that's interesting. If an earlier version doesn't stop working
after the 180 day period, than it must have only been a recent change.
I will try out solution suggested by a couple of other posters first
(use a search program, and just set my file manager to be the default
for opening folders) - if that doesn't work out too well, I might give
you a yell and see if I can get that earlier version off you. I agree
with what John Fitsimons said in an earlier post though about it being
a nasty way to sell shareware, so if at all possible, I will try and
avoid any version of FileRun.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
mouser
Please excuse the length of this post; I appreciate the discussion here
and just wanted to add my perspective. I am the author of Find+Run Robot
and many of the other programs on the DonationCoder.com site.
First let me say that I understand that it's frustrating to have a program
that says it is freeware pop up a message telling you to sign up at a
forum to download a "freeware license".
DonationCoder has tried to be very open and transparent in talking with
our visitors about finding a good balance of encouraging people to visit
the site and make donations if they can, while still striving very hard to
keep the software free for everyone and without limitations.
You can find numerous threads on our forum discussing the issue and i
encourage you to read a little if you have any doubt about our intentions
or integrity. Here is a more recent one:
http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=1732.msg11519#msg11519
You can also read about the philosophy of our approach here:
http://www.donationcoder.com/About/start.html
The bottom line is as simple as this: we want to keep our software free
for everyone, but find a way to encourage people to donate. Our
experience is that very few people ever do unless you give them a little
bit of incentive. Requiring people who don't donate (or who aren't
honorary members by way of being freeware authors, etc) to download a new
freeware key every 6 months is one of the ways we are trying to do this.
Is it perfect? no. Should we remove that part? we're open to discussion.
We are experimenting with trying to find the right balance and we don't
claim to have all the answers. We're just trying to find a way to keep
the software free of use but still nudge people a little to get them past
the normal inertia we all have to not donate for something if we don't
have to. It's really as simple as that.
We do hope that in signing up at the forum we will encourage you to take
part in the discussions on our forum (which you might like if you like
this forum since we talk about shareware and freeware tools, and finding
the best ones, CONSTANTLY :)). As for spam from signing up, we never have
and never will share the email addresses of users with other people. We
do send out a newsletter every 2 weeks ago talking about new programs on
the site, the best posts, new reviews, giveaways we are having, etc. But
you need only check a box in your profile to never get an email from us
again. I Promise.
Now, also, having said that, I have made clear that the purpose of these
things is to encourage donations. And if someone emails me and says "I've
been using your programs for a month, i love em, but i'm not going to
donate for whatever reason" then we will give them a full non-expiring
license that works on all of our programs. That's because the intent is
not to punish those who won't donate.
So if you are against signing up at our forum or donating, you can email
me for a non expiring license that works on all of our software. Just
please do us the favor of checking out our site first and seeing if it's
an effort you want to support with a donation before jumping to a
conclusion.
--
Lastly, and more to your point :)
There is a very long list of alternatives to Find+Run robot in the help
file of the program, both freeware and shareware (all of our software has
a list of alternative programs in the help file). In fact I know of no
other list remotely as complete as that list. Like all of our programs,
you can read the help file online if you wish, go to the bottom to read
the Related Programs:
http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Mouser/findrun/help/index.html
Let's see anything else to say while i'm here.. Find+Run Robot version 2
is due out in the next month or so with tons of new features and we love
hearing feature requests, so if you have any please post in the F+R forum
(yes signup is required to post hehe):
http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?board=12.0
i'll keep an eye here too and would be happy to respond to any questions,
complaints, etc.
-mouser
mouser
stops working if you don't make a donation.
The way it works is after 6 months you have to visit the website and grab
a new license key for the next 6 months. There is no limit to how often
you can do this.
Making a donation of any amount gets you a non-expiring license key for
all of our programs.
Saxman
Who can be bothered with a n o t h e r password?
I liked the program, but decided to undelete owing to keys/passords/pop-ups
and it still left traces on my computer.
I decided to give it another go, but ended up doing the same.
Far better to make installation easier and ask for a donation later, or
just make a charge for it?
Azzman
news:fx0ykcol0aga.10asdjibujkwb$.d...@40tude.net:
> I liked the program, but decided to undelete owing to
> keys/passords/pop-ups and it still left traces on my computer.
>
> I decided to give it another go, but ended up doing the same.
>
> Far better to make installation easier and ask for a donation later,
> or just make a charge for it?
>
I agree, it didn't uninstall very efficiënt (understatement).
And it's a lot of hassle with the exparation of the key.
As for the donation part:
Someone is more likely to get LESS donations by nagging people to do so.
I wouldn't have donated to the author of Irfanview if he had the same
policy as the people from FindRun Robot.
You want cash ? Go payware.
You want donations ? Make yourself appreciated.
--
Azzman
mouser
remove all of this other stuff. i posted a longer response to these
issues in other post on this forum.
we do not want to make our software shareware - we want it to remain free
for those who can't afford it. as for removing some of the license key /
renewal things, that's something we are keeping open the possibility of,
we're going to experiment and listen to user feedback and experiment until
we find a good balance. most people seem quite fond of the site and our
approach when they give it a chance. it's hard to please everyone. as
for trouble uninstalling, we have a very active technical support forum
where questions are usually answered in terms of minutes and hours instead
of days. we also have an irc chat channel open 24hours a day. our
programs dont install any spyware or adware, they come with uninstallers
(i don't know why you would be having any issues uninstalling), and can be
used without running the installer at all. very few use any registry keys
at all (we generally try to avoid the use of the registry).
mouser
are positive but we've also added the negative ones we get (maybe i'll add
one from this thread if you like). There are some funny ones too.
Craig
> greetings everyone,
>
> Please excuse the length of this post; I appreciate the discussion here
> and just wanted to add my perspective. I am the author of Find+Run Robot
> and many of the other programs on the DonationCoder.com site.
>
Mouser;
Interesting operation...I'd never heard of your site but, your
well-articulated posting is a pretty convincing reason to investigate
further.
thanks for the post,
Craig
Saxman
This is a really good program that you have and one of the best utilities
that I have seen in recent times. One can virtually get rid of all the
icons on one's desktop, but when I see pop-up windows and experience
difficulties removing the software, I think SPYWARE.
Susan Bugher
> DonationCoder has tried to be very open and transparent in talking with
> our visitors about finding a good balance of encouraging people to visit
> the site and make donations if they can, while still striving very hard to
> keep the software free for everyone and without limitations.
I think you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Donations are
supposedly given freely - IMO arm twisting in the form of time
limitations, registration requirements etc. violates the spirit of that.
> You can also read about the philosophy of our approach here:
> http://www.donationcoder.com/About/start.html
<q>
We have tried hard to figure out a way to make a small amount of money
from our software, without having to resort to the traditional approach
of restricted and time-limited shareware. We are not doing this to get
rich, we are doing it because we think it's a cool idea and we hope it
will eventually manage to at least pay for itself.
</q>
Since you want to be paid IMO the straightforward approach is to ask for
payment if people can afford to pay. IOW say something like this:
This program is Shareware. The registration fee is $XX. If you use the
program and like it please pay for it. If you cannot afford the fee you
are allowed to use XYZ as Freeware.
Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)
mouser
a single donationcoder.com app has ever had spyware or adware of any
kind, and we would never include such things. the pop-up nag comes up
only until you enter the freeware license key and after that you
shouldn't see a single nag or popup until the 6 months when the key
must be renewed. a non-expiring key of course never expires nor pops
up.
as for trouble uninstalling - the only trouble you should ever have
uninstalling one of our system-tray based programs is if you try to
install it while it is still running in the system tray; the
uninstaller reminds you to do this but people occassionally forget in
which case the file cant be removed since its still running. We should
probably try to write code for the installer (we use inno) to shutdown
the app if its still running, but other than that all of our programs
should uninstall cleanly without fuss; we don't make changes to systems
files nor install any dlls, etc.
mouser
of "donationware" is one we talk about on our site a lot. i don't hope
to convince any of you to my viewpoint, i just want to explain where we
are coming from and what we're trying to do, and why. good people can
disagree about the choices we've made but i just want you guys/gals to
understand our position.
In the past all of our programs were just as you say, pure freeware
without any attempt to coninvce people to donate, and no need for users
to do anything, just download and use.
Some of them were very popular. Everyone was happy. And no one
donated.
Well, virtually no one. Some people did donate. It takes a special
person to make a donation without any incentive, just to support the
work. But there are very very few of these people. the donations
wouldn't even cover basic web hosting, let alone the expenses of web
hosting on a dedicated server like we are on now in order to support
the 4+gb a day bandwidth and hundreds of thousands of hits per day on
our site and forum.
We have been trying to advocate for a donation-based approach to
software (and all digital media), where people pay what they can afford
and are happy with, and they decide the amount.
But at the current time most people won't participate in such an
arrangement. They just do not donate without some kind of incentive to
get them up off the couch.
So in the end we faced some hard questions:
We wondered,
Is there a way to make a tiny bit of money (not enough money to live
off of, but maybe something approaching minimum wage?) on the software
without going to a full shareware commercial model?
Is there a way to promote a donation-based approach that could actually
convince people to donate if they could afford it, and let them decide
how much it's worth to them?
Can it be done in a way that would still facilitate the nice community
spirit of freeware?
That was the impetus for creating the site, to try to build a community
of users and coders who are willing to agree to a kind of compact,
where users are willing to donate what they think the software is
worth, and coders are willing to put in the time and effort to interact
with users to build commercial quality software. With the
understanding that no one is going to get rich, but maybe we can
generate enough rewards to breathe a little life into the donationware
model of funding.
ps1.
a long thread in our forum about donationware:
http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=825.0
and another long one discussing the appropriateness of terms
donationware, freeeware, nagware, etc. and the idea of using "freeware
licenses": http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=96.0
ps2.
Try this experiment before you come down on us so hard for trying to
encourage donations, pick some amazing freeware on the web that just
has a little donate button or message on the site. Email the author
and ask them if they've gotten many donations. You'd probably be
depressed at the answer. I really do believe that donationware can be
the future of software but we all need to be more willing to make
donations to worthy products for that to work. Right now my personal
believe is that we have these two completely opposite models, one is
this pure capitalistic commercial software model which says charge as
much as you can get away with to maximize profits and who cares who
can't afford it. And on the other end you have pure unadulterated open
source / freeware, which can only be written by people who make their
living through other means or are independently wealthy. This often
results in freeware that is unsuported, gets discontinued, or is never
fully stable. Some open source products land big funding deals from
companies, which is nice, but for independent developers this is a real
long shot.
ps3.
Btw i haven't mentioned that there are lots of programs on our site
that don't have any license key, including some open source programs.
ps4.
for those people who say that we should either make our software pure
shareware, or else stop trying to convince people to donate, or say "if
you can't afford it then it's free",
think of it this way, here is our OFFICIAL policy, you tell me if this
really seems unreasonable.
1. you can make a one time donation for as little as 50 cents to our
site and you get every program on the site (about 15-20 big programs,
and maybe 40 or 50 smaller ones) , plus lifetime updates, if that's
what you feel its worth. you need to check a box in your forum profile
to never get another email from us again. this 50 cent donation also
gets you full access on our site where we try to get discounts on
shareware and frequently have drawings for free software (we've given
away about 100 different programs in the 8 months we've been in
existence). We also have regular comprehensive reviews of software and
other stuff.
2. you can just do the default thing, sign up at our forum, and then
download license keys for any of the programs on our site that require
them; again check one box if you never want to receive our
twice-monthly newsletters. if you never want to donate but keep using
our programs, youd have to come back every 6 months or so for a new
license key. we update our programs quite frequently so you might be
visiting the site more often if you are using the programs regularly.
3. alternatively, if you know you object to donating and don't want to
register on our forum, you can email me, and i will go generate you a
non-expiring license key for all of our programs. cost to you: 0. or
if you cannot or won't donate but do want to have full site access you
will be made a member of the site after signing up.
Anyone who has read these posts and taken the time to think about these
issues and still does not want to make a donation to our site is very
welcome to a no-strings-attached free lifetime membership on our site
with a non-expiring license key that will work with all of our programs
including find+run robot. just sign up at our forum and send me your
forum login name in an email (mouser@_REMOVTHIS_donationcoder.com) and
i'll upgrade your account to full member which will let you access
everything. OR if you object to signing up at the forum tell me so in
an email and ill make the non-expiring license key for you myself
(though you wont have access to the members-only sections of our
website).
Saxman
> i hear ya, one has to be careful these days. i'll just repeat that not
> a single donationcoder.com app has ever had spyware or adware of any
> kind, and we would never include such things.
I didn't say it includes spyware, but I think spyware.
There's enough friggin pop-ups anyway.......spyware threats, cookies, virus
updates, emails in the inbox, subscription reminders........and I'm not
exaggerating.
John Fitzsimons
<mou...@donationcoder.com> wrote:
< snip >
>First let me say that I understand that it's frustrating to have a program
>that says it is freeware pop up a message telling you to sign up at a
>forum to download a "freeware license".
You got that right.
>DonationCoder has tried to be very open and transparent
I disagree. If you were "open and transparent" then you would tell
people BEFORE THEY DOWNLOAD anything that they will need to
"register" again and again and again and...... to use the programs as
freeware.
>in talking with
>our visitors about finding a good balance of encouraging people to visit
>the site and make donations if they can, while still striving very hard to
>keep the software free for everyone and without limitations.
Duh ! Having to re-register is a very annoying "limitation".
< snip >
>The bottom line is as simple as this: we want to keep our software free
>for everyone, but find a way to encourage people to donate. Our
>experience is that very few people ever do unless you give them a little
>bit of incentive. Requiring people who don't donate (or who aren't
>honorary members by way of being freeware authors, etc) to download a new
>freeware key every 6 months is one of the ways we are trying to do this.
Then why not clearly state that on your web pages ?
< snip >
> As for spam from signing up, we never have
>and never will share the email addresses of users with other people. We
>do send out a newsletter every 2 weeks ago talking about new programs on
>the site, the best posts, new reviews, giveaways we are having, etc. But
>you need only check a box in your profile to never get an email from us
>again. I Promise.
One should have an "opt in" system. Not an "opt out" system.
>Now, also, having said that, I have made clear that the purpose of these
>things is to encourage donations. And if someone emails me and says "I've
>been using your programs for a month, i love em, but i'm not going to
>donate for whatever reason" then we will give them a full non-expiring
>license that works on all of our programs. That's because the intent is
>not to punish those who won't donate.
It certainly appears that way.
>So if you are against signing up at our forum or donating, you can email
>me for a non expiring license that works on all of our software. Just
>please do us the favor of checking out our site first and seeing if it's
>an effort you want to support with a donation before jumping to a
>conclusion.
IF you were to put that information on your site, so that it was able
to be clearly seen, then I might consider that. As it is however you
have not done so. If you hide such info from people then one may
wonder whether you have also added a dated expiry to your
programs as well. To "encourage donations".
Bye the way, my gripe is NOT about paying for programs. I paid
for this newsreader and I have paid for other programs I use. I
just dislike sites that hide "limitations" until after someone has
"registered" and/or "downloaded".
Regards, John.
John Fitzsimons
>Just to make it clear, it is *not* the case that after 6 months the program
>stops working if you don't make a donation.
>The way it works is after 6 months you have to visit the website and grab
>a new license key for the next 6 months. There is no limit to how often
>you can do this.
So if one doesn't request a new licence key it stops working ?
< snip >
John Fitzsimons
< snip >
>You want cash ? Go payware.
>You want donations ? Make yourself appreciated.
Mouser doesn't appear to want either of those options so he should
consider "plan B". The approach that many others take. Have two
versions of a fully working program. The first being freeware and the
second with "advanced" features.
People are often happy to pay for an "advanced" program if they like
the freeware one, and the seller is totally "up front" about how they
are doing things.
Regards, John.
--
****************************************************
,-._|\ (A.C.F FAQ) http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
/ Oz \ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
\_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
v http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/
Elmira
license needed or I doubt I would have kept the program. Only had it 4
months now.
Maybe you can find an older version out there.
"Saxman" <john.h.williams(removethis)@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:idxg8tsbhc9s.7...@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 21:37:50 +1100, No I'm Spartacus wrote:
>
>
>> I'm looking for a freeware program similar to Find&Run Robot.
>> http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Mouser/findrun/index.html
>> I don't consider this program freeware because you have to sign up for
>> their forums to generate a licence key for it...only you find out when
>> you sign up that the key expires every 180 days, whereupon you have to
>> generate another one (as the program stops working). The only way to
>> get a eternal key is to pay for the program.
>> So, anyone have any suggestions? What I want to do is to type a folder
>> name into the program, and have it open that folder in my file
>> manager.
>
> I found the utility very good, but like you couldn't be bothered with it
> in
> the end. It's pop-up message mad as well. Turn your computer clock
> forward and up comes another message!
mouser
>people BEFORE THEY DOWNLOAD anything that they will need to
>"register" again and again and again and...... to use the programs as
>freeware.
just to be clear, you only have to "register" once. then after 6
months you just go to the key page url and click one button to make
another that lasts another 6 months.
you said:
>>bit of incentive. Requiring people who don't donate (or who aren't
>>honorary members by way of being freeware authors, etc) to download a new
>>freeware key every 6 months is one of the ways we are trying to do this.
>Then why not clearly state that on your web pages ?
here's the SECOND (bolded even) item on the "start" page
(http://www.donationcoder.com/About/start.html):
"I'm already using one of your programs.. Where can I download a
freeware license key for it?
In order to encourage donations, some of our programs require
non-members to sign up at our forum and download a new freeware license
key every 6 months."
there is a LOT of information on our site, it's a bit hard to make
every piece of information obvious from every page. we've been through
menu iterations of the pages, moving information here and there, we're
doing our best.
>Bye the way, my gripe is NOT about paying for programs. I paid
>for this newsreader and I have paid for other programs I use. I
>just dislike sites that hide "limitations" until after someone has
>"registered" and/or "downloaded".
fair enough; every program page that requires a freeware license key
says has a link at the very top item on the upper left of the page:
"[Request License Key]" that takes you to key page whch explains
exactly the policy. maybe we could add a little more information with
that link.
i get the feeling that it's never going to be enough though. part of
the problem is that people with plenty of money might feel like why are
there all these complications? why can't i just push a "buy now"
button? a problem with doing something more complicate than pure
freeware or pure shareware is the difficulty of explaining the idea..
probably never going to be a perfect solution. the only good part i
guess is that the people who do join our site tend to be people who are
a little more interested in being part of something, rather than just
the gimme it now here's the money crowd.
mouser
>consider "plan B". The approach that many others take. Have two
>versions of a fully working program. The first being freeware and the
>second with "advanced" features.
>People are often happy to pay for an "advanced" program if they like
>the freeware one, and the seller is totally "up front" about how they
>are doing things.
this is actually an interesting point - personally the division of
"lite" and "full" versions is exactly what we are trying to avoid.
our whole intent is to be able to bring everyone the full version and
ask them to donate whatever they think it's worth to them, including
nothing if they can't afford anything (or if they don't want to pay for
it for whatever reason).
we are specifically interested in promoting the idea that users should
donate what they would like to (and are able to) donate, and not a cent
more, for the full version of all of our programs. (note also in case
it's not clear, users who donate any amount once get access to every
program and all content on our site, it's not like you donate for each
program).
mouser
and click generate to make a new key for the program.
actually i think we are probably going to change that to have it pop up
the reminder to get a new key after 6 months and never expire; it would
serve the same purpose.
mouser
available for download the last version that had no license key code.
you can view the program help file for a complete version history to
see if there's anything new you need:
http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Mouser/findrun/help/index.html
ps. looks like according to the release history in the help file that
license code was added at Version 1.05.22, August 27, 2005
there have been quite a few releases since then but maybe not stuff you
need if you are really philosophically opposed to our approach.
Susan Bugher
> That was the impetus for creating the site, to try to build a community
> of users and coders who are willing to agree to a kind of compact,
> where users are willing to donate what they think the software is
> worth, and coders are willing to put in the time and effort to interact
> with users to build commercial quality software. With the
> understanding that no one is going to get rich, but maybe we can
> generate enough rewards to breathe a little life into the donationware
> model of funding.
All well and good but that's not Freeware. Freeware has no quid pro quo,
no "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours". . . See:
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/WareGlossary.php
"Legally obtainable software that you may use at no cost, monetary or
otherwise, for as long as you wish."
IOW - Freeware is a gift that is given freely. Freeware has NO strings
attached - it's given without any expectation of return, there are no
requests for donations, no time limitations, no registration
requirements. . .
> Try this experiment before you come down on us so hard for trying to
> encourage donations, pick some amazing freeware on the web that just
> has a little donate button or message on the site. Email the author
> and ask them if they've gotten many donations. You'd probably be
> depressed at the answer. I really do believe that donationware can be
> the future of software but we all need to be more willing to make
> donations to worthy products for that to work.
My suggestion that you ask for payment rather than donations was not an
attempt to "come down hard on you". It was a suggestion that you face
reality squarely. As you say, the reality is that donations to software
authors are few and far between. Apparently your MAIN goal is to change
the hearts and minds of the people. I wish you luck on that uphill road
and withdraw my suggestion.
mouser
agree with this definition you cited
>http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/WareGlossary.php
>"Legally obtainable software that you may use at no cost, monetary or
>otherwise, for as long as you wish."
and i agree with your statement:
> Freeware has no quid pro quo,
> no "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours". . .
i posted links to threads on our forum discussing your view that
freeware requires
> no requests for donations
a case can certainly be made that as soon as an author even hints or is
willing to accept a donation suddenly a freeware program becomes
non-freeware and becomes something else (donationware presumably) - but
i don't think that's a meaningul definition personally.
if freeware bothers anyone, you could call our software donationware, i
don't mind that. though i think it would be more meaningul to call
software donationware when it *requires* a donation. but i admit
that's not the accepted terminology. i don't think a single person can
visit our site and say it's not clear that we are asking for donations.
Mike Andrade
news:1134101895.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> though i think it would be more meaningul to call
> software donationware when it *requires* a donation
That's called shareware or commercialware.
--
Mike
"A fool and his money are soon elected."
- Will Rogers
mouser
i have suggested that the term "donationware" be used to describe
software that *requires* a monetary or other donation of some sort, BUT
does not specify any minimum amount, and so let's the user choose
exactly how much they want to or can afford to donate.
i don't know any "shareware" that fits this criteria, though i'd love
to. we do not in fact *require* a donation of any amount, i just think
that requirement would be a more useful distinction between freeware
and donationware terms.
ps.
here's some text on our donation page to give you another idea of our
approach (http://www.donationcoder.com/Donate/DonateMethod.html):
"Alternatives - You may also mail us your donation or contact us to
arrange an alternate method of donating. If you cannot afford to donate
anything, send us a postcard or letter instead, and we will treat it as
equivalent to a donation; if you are an artist, send us a painting or
drawing."
66g...@gmail.com
because I :
a) found it to be such an amazingly useful app
b) was so impressed by the philosophy of mouser and the donationcoder
community,
I can only say that my experience has been totally positive.
I love freeware as much as the next person, but I also appreciate that
a lot of talent and time goes into coding applications ; if one were to
'hang' for awhile at the donationcoder forums or in #donationcoder on
efnet you'd quickly get a sense that mouser is one of the nicest ppl
*evar, and would be the last person looking to 'hose' anyone.
I chose to donate because I respect the coder, I love the application
and I very much appreciate the philosophy behind the software. I don't
see why these are things we should all assume we can take for granted
ad infinitum.
I read this thread and I see so much fuss about nothing.
@ the original poster, throwing down even 1 dollar will get you exactly
what you're looking for (for life), and as has been mentioned if you
are really against paying for findandrun, you can still have it.
@ some of the other posters with the sanctimonious 'gimme my freeware
or else' attitudes, imho you really need to learn how to code your own
apps in that you may grow to appreciate what some of these ppl do for
you for *nothing.
Regards to you too.
gdub
Hengist_Ludd
bought into a Microsoft operating system has already made a Faustian
bargain with the most predatory capitalist monopoly on the planet.
Whereupon, the shrill self-righteousness of the chant of "Free! Free!
Gimme!" beggars belief...
Come to think of it, who's to say that the definition of "freeware"
adopted by this group is in itself unassailable holy writ?
Hengist_Ludd
Mouser's idea of Donationware -requests- money, but does not -require-
it.
Shareware -absolutely- requires money, often with threat of legal action.
Mouser seems to have hit on a new paradigm between freeware and shareware.
OK, I see that the nature of the "requests" irritates some people, but
they still don't have to pay anything, and payment's what I take to be the
prime criterion for shareware or commercial software.
Azzman
news:3a0b181b205ce64f...@localhost.talkaboutshareware.com:
snip
> Mouser seems to have hit on a new paradigm between freeware and
> shareware.
Let's call it paradigm-ware ;)
But out of curiosity, I'm gonna mail mouser to tell him I don't want to
donate anything, and see if I get a key that doesn't expire.
--
Azzman
No I'm Spartacus
wrote:
>>I disagree. If you were "open and transparent" then you would tell
>>people BEFORE THEY DOWNLOAD anything that they will need to
>>"register" again and again and again and...... to use the programs as
>>freeware.
>
>just to be clear, you only have to "register" once. then after 6
>months you just go to the key page url and click one button to make
>another that lasts another 6 months.
John is correct in what he said. It needs to be stated before you sign
up for the forums that the key is only valid for a certain time period
unless you donate. Not after you sign up, before. If I had known
thatlittle fact before I signed up for the forums to get a key, I
would not have signed up. I have no interest in shareware - only true
freeware. No nags, no crippling, no time limitations.
>
>>Bye the way, my gripe is NOT about paying for programs. I paid
>>for this newsreader and I have paid for other programs I use. I
>>just dislike sites that hide "limitations" until after someone has
>>"registered" and/or "downloaded".
>
>fair enough; every program page that requires a freeware license key
>says has a link at the very top item on the upper left of the page:
>"[Request License Key]" that takes you to key page whch explains
>exactly the policy. maybe we could add a little more information with
>that link.
>
John has the same gripe that I had when I posted the original topic.
Whether a program is freeware or shareware is up to the author - and I
have no problems with that - if you think the program is good enough,
you pay for it, if not, you go look for a freeware equivalent. But,
when a site claims that you get a free key when you sign up for the
forums, and only once you sign up, you are told that the key is time
limited, that in my opinion is dishonest, and not worthy of respect.
And that makes me angry.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
No I'm Spartacus
<mou...@donationcoder.com> wrote:
>Just to make it clear, it is *not* the case that after 6 months the program
>stops working if you don't make a donation.
>
>The way it works is after 6 months you have to visit the website and grab
>a new license key for the next 6 months. There is no limit to how often
>you can do this.
>
>Making a donation of any amount gets you a non-expiring license key for
>all of our programs.
So if the program doesn't stop working, why do you need to visit the
website to get another key?
--
Regards,
Spartacus
No I'm Spartacus
<john.h.williams(removethis)@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>Who can be bothered with a n o t h e r password?
>
>I liked the program, but decided to undelete owing to keys/passords/pop-ups
>and it still left traces on my computer.
>
>I decided to give it another go, but ended up doing the same.
>
>Far better to make installation easier and ask for a donation later, or
>just make a charge for it?
Well said Saxman. Charge for it up front would be the honest thing to
do - it is shareware after all.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
No I'm Spartacus
<DELETEu...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
>Mouser doesn't appear to want either of those options so he should
>consider "plan B". The approach that many others take. Have two
>versions of a fully working program. The first being freeware and the
>second with "advanced" features.
>
>People are often happy to pay for an "advanced" program if they like
>the freeware one, and the seller is totally "up front" about how they
>are doing things.
>
>Regards, John.
That's quite a good idea actually John. A good alternative to the
other options.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
No I'm Spartacus
wrote:
And a quote from one of your earlier posts: "Just to make it clear, it
is *not* the case that after 6 months the program stops working if you
don't make a donation."
At least now you have admitted that statement was incorrect. A program
that expires like this can't be called freeware I'm afraid.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
No I'm Spartacus
But mouser has said that if you don't get a new key every 6 months,
the program stops working. If you want it to keep working, you need to
donate/pay to get a proper licence. That's shareware.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
Azzman
Just received my non-expiring key by email.
Must say, nice program.
--
Azzman
mouser
Let me help put this in a little perspective.
Over the 8 or 9 months since the site has been online, we've never once
hesitated or questioned someone who asked for a free license - nor made
them feel bad about asking - that's just the whole point of what we are
trying to do.
It is was our initial belief, and our experience thus far has borne
this out, that the (somewhat counter-intuitive) problem with getting
people to donate was *not* that they were unwilling to contribute a
litle money to something they liked, but just that we all have an
inertia that keeps us from going through the effort of donating.
I think the future of donationware may one day be bright, when it
becomes easier for everyone to safely and easily donate money to a
site, but for now people need a little bit of an encouragement to get
them to donate. We've tried to do that not just by offering some
conveniences for people who donate (which we've talked about mostly on
this thread), but also some special benefits like early access to new
software in development and by getting companies to donate software for
us to give away to members, etc.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that we are not trying to force
everyone to donate, and punish those who don't. We are just trying to
offer enough incentive that those who in their heart feel like donating
actually go through with it. That means that anyone who takes the time
to write us and say they will not be donating has already taken that
time and effort to consider the issue and express themselves. That's
all we ask for and they are welcome to the non-expiring license keys
and other benefits. Enough other people are willing to donate in order
to support the idea and make that possible.
The interesting thing, for those considering the donationware approach,
is that as we hoped, the people who donate tend not to donate $1. Some
donate $5 some donate $15 some donate $100. That just affirms what we
were hoping, that the problem with donationware in the past has been
not so much that no one wants to contribute for stuff they appreciate
and support continued development, but just that donators need to be
motivated a little and assured that the people who they are donating to
take their donation seriously, and value it. and that the donation
actually makes a difference. and we are working hard to make people
who donate proud that they did.
So I assure you that anyone who takes the time to read these posts and
consider where we are coming from and sends me an email saying they
will not be donating at this time, for whatever reason, is very welcome
to a non-expiring license for all of our programs - we are happy to do
it.
Lastly, a word to freeware authors:
I encourage any freeware developer who is considering having to move
their software from freeware to shareware in order to pay rent, or pay
hosting costs, etc. to think seriously about a donationware model. Do
*not* expect to make the kind of money you would make from shareware.
Not even remotely close. You will not make enough money to live on.
And don't expect to be able to just have a button in the corner of your
page saying "click here to donate" because that's just not going to do
it - people will not respond.
Be prepared to put in more work and effort in interacting with your
users and showing them that their donations are helping to make it
possible for you to keep working on the program, and be prepared to
swallow your pride a little, and really ask people to donate - if you
don't they won't (many of us who have worked on freeware have a
philisophical aversion to asking for money and I can tell you that I
really wish i didn't have to, and you're never going to learn to love
it like a true uber-capitalist :) ).
However, what is lost in money is gained in terms of having a
non-adversarial relationship with your users. Instead of having
customers who are demanding what they paid for and more, you have users
and donators who want you to succeed, and who appreciate your work. In
some ways it brings them closer to the projects and can lead to a more
rewarding experience than the mostly anonymous world of freeware.
We talk about these issues all the time on our forum (see for example
http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=825.0) and i
invite any freeware authors considering this idea to join us in
discussions there, or in this newsgroup for that matter, if it's an
aceptable subject for discussion here.
-mouser
mouser
>up for the forums that the key is only valid for a certain time period
>unless you donate. Not after you sign up, before.
I agree with this; I can see that going through the efforts of signing
up at the forum and then discovering that you have to return to the
page in 6 months to grab a new license key could be frustrating.
[EDIT] - I was just about to make a post quoting from the key file page
(http://www.donationcoder.com/Keys/index.php) talking about the 6 month
renewal thing which my memory was, was very clearly stated. I visited
the page now that new visitors see the only text I see only an oblique
reference that "If you do decide to become a Donating Member of the
site you will receive a single universal license key that is guaranteed
to work on all current and future DonationCoder.com applications,
including the latest beta versions, and never expires. "
I agree that this is not nearly enough - and I concede completely the
point that that page is incomplete and confusing and could lead to some
hard feelings after signing up and only then reading that you need to
come back to the page to get a new key in 6 months.
I am updating it now to say what the page says to people who are
already signed up at our forum, and will post a quick reply when it has
been updated.
Saxman
> hehe, i can see there are non-believers here :)
>
> Let me help put this in a little perspective.
Why not charge $15 dollars for the program and be done with the keys or
maybe 30 day free trial?
No I'm Spartacus
wrote:
>
>I agree with this; I can see that going through the efforts of signing
>up at the forum and then discovering that you have to return to the
>page in 6 months to grab a new license key could be frustrating.
>
>
>[EDIT] - I was just about to make a post quoting from the key file page
>(http://www.donationcoder.com/Keys/index.php) talking about the 6 month
>renewal thing which my memory was, was very clearly stated. I visited
>the page now that new visitors see the only text I see only an oblique
>reference that "If you do decide to become a Donating Member of the
>site you will receive a single universal license key that is guaranteed
>to work on all current and future DonationCoder.com applications,
>including the latest beta versions, and never expires. "
>
>I agree that this is not nearly enough - and I concede completely the
>point that that page is incomplete and confusing and could lead to some
>hard feelings after signing up and only then reading that you need to
>come back to the page to get a new key in 6 months.
>
>I am updating it now to say what the page says to people who are
>already signed up at our forum, and will post a quick reply when it has
>been updated.
Thank you mouser. As I mentioned, that was my main gripe in the first
place. Not that you had made it donationware/shareware (they are the
same thing to me) in the first place - that was your choice after all
- but that it was only stated that the key was time expired after you
had already signed up to your forums. If you had already had this
little fact on the 'pre-signup' page, it wouldn't have bothered me. I
would have just thought "ok, that's not freeware, I will go look
elsewhere" - instead, I had to reset some of the settings on my
browser (turn on cookie acceptance for example), fill in your forums
signup form, log into my Yahoo webmail account (which is only used for
signup's like this - it makes a nice recepticle for all the spam email
that you start getting when you sign up for a download or register for
a forum - for which I had to disable my HOSTS file settings by the way
as my HOSTS is locked down too well for Yahoo to function without
disabling it), go into the email your site had sent, go to the 'yes,
confirm this registration' link, then go back to your website, log
into the forums (as the key generator only works when you have a
concurrent login to the forums), go back to the key signup page to
generate my key...only to find it was only valid for 180 days! I was
pretty angry after all this. I didn't bother installing FindRun or
using the key once the key generator told me it was time limited - I'm
only interested in true freeware. If you had mentioned this before the
signup, I could have avoided all this.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
Saxman
> hehe, i can see there are non-believers here :)
>
> Let me help put this in a little perspective.
I think you need to make it explicitly clear on your website and upon
installation that one requires a donation or a renewable key.
Nothing wrong with the software, but I think you are trying to pull the
wool over some peoples eyes.
Your program Screenshot Captor was advertised as freeware on Softpedia
yesterday. It should be advertised as donationware as you describe, then
everybody knows what situation they are in.
mouser
the page has been updated, it now says near the top of the page this:
"Until you become a donating member of our site your license key will
stop working after 6 months, at which point you will have to return to
this page to grab a new license key which will extend the use of the
program another 6 months, etc. You can do this indefinitely. If your
license expires and you are sure that you do not want to donate to our
site, send us an email explaining why you can't or won't donate and we
will send you a permanent non-expiring license."
Again, my apologies for the confusion - I do agree that it is important
that it should have always stated this information before telling
people to go through the trouble of signing up at the forum; it's a big
website and the new license key stuff as been up for only 4 months or
so and as I've said before we're still working out the best way to do
everything, and explain everything :) It does no good for us to have
people angry after signing up at the forum.
mouser
when they do, this is what we file under.
No I'm Spartacus
<john.h.williams(removethis)@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>I think you need to make it explicitly clear on your website and upon
>installation that one requires a donation or a renewable key.
>
>Nothing wrong with the software, but I think you are trying to pull the
>wool over some peoples eyes.
>
>Your program Screenshot Captor was advertised as freeware on Softpedia
>yesterday. It should be advertised as donationware as you describe, then
>everybody knows what situation they are in.
You've got it totally correct with those statements Saxman. I'm not
sure that mouser has quite understood it yet, but I think he will
eventually understand that the problem was not that he went
'donationware' with his software, but that until you actually
registered on his website, it was not mentioned as such - instead, it
was advertised as freeware on the pre-signup page, something it was
not. Sounds like Softpedia hasn't verified whether Screenshot Captor
was freeware or not - maybe they just took the description off the
'pre-signup' program key page (where it makes no mention of any time
limitations), instead of registering a key for themselves, whereupon
they would have noticed that the key was time limited unless you
donated.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
Vic Dura
<Hengist_Ludd@[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote Re Re: Program similar to
FindRun Robot - from developer of Find+Ru:
>Come to think of it, who's to say that the definition of "freeware"
>adopted by this group is in itself unassailable holy writ?
There is not definition "adopted" by the group; only a *very* loose
and tenuous general agreement to which there are more exceptions than
not. Effectively common-sense is what prevails.
--
To email me directly, remove CLUTTER.
Vic Dura
<Hengist_Ludd@[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote Re Re: Program similar to
FindRun Robot - from developer of Find+Ru:
>but
>they still don't have to pay anything, and payment's what I take to be the
>prime criterion for shareware or commercial software.
Well said.
Klaatu
> most software listing sites do not have a "donationware" category;
> when they do, this is what we file under.
Then why do you continue to post in a freeware newsgroup? Clearly your site
contains no freeware whatsoever, so please go away.
--
Live every day as if it were your last and then some day you'll be right.
Hengist_Ludd
to the site and doing over. You don't have to pay money.
Hengist_Ludd
=== QUOTE ===
MCL is a command line utility that allows you to run programs quickly and
easily by typing the commands. Why is this useful? If you...
* ...are a really fast typer, and tired of Windows' inefficiency.
* ...are an old UNIX junkie, and used to the command line way of doing
things
* ...hate the consistently idiot-proof way Windows works
then MCL is for you!
MCL is 100% freeware! It was written in C++ by Mike Lin. It is not
dependent on VB, MFC, or any other runtime DLLs. It has low memory usage,
small download size, and high performance. Some of its nifty features
include:
* AutoComplete - finishes your commands for you
* Rollup - compresses the window in a little bar, saving you screen
space
* Command history - remembers up to 100 of your previously used
commands
* Hotkey - One key combination anywhere in Windows and MCL is
activated
* Macros - special commands that let you quickly execute one or more
other commands
* Ability to execute not only programs, but DOS commands, Explorer,
and URLs.
* Plug-ins - allows any developer to extend MCL's capabilities
MCL was designed from the ground up to be convenient, out of the way, and
easy to use. It can make using Windows a much less annoying experience!
Download MCL
So, you've listened to all my ranting and raving, and now you wanna take
the dive, huh? Well, be my guest. Be sure to read through the help file,
because many of MCL's features are not immediately obvious.
=== END QUOTE ===
Not sure it will do what you want. It's free, but he has a PayPal button
if you feel *moved to donate* :-)))
Saxman
> But you can re-start it by getting a new *free* 6-month key by going back
> to the site and doing over. You don't have to pay money.
That is not how my freeware works on my computer. The said software nags
you until you pay up. Can you not see that?
Azzman
news:t76e96o6r4k7$.uz6ewr6g...@40tude.net:
Or do as I did:
email the author, tell him you don't want to donate and get a non-expiring
key.
--
Azzman
mouser
>> when they do, this is what we file under.
>Then why do you continue to post in a freeware newsgroup? Clearly your site
>contains no freeware whatsoever, so please go away
well, i've said that i personally consider the software on our site
that requires you to either email us for a non-expiring key, or else
come back every 6 months for a new freeware license key (which removes
all nags), to be freeware (or donationware if you prefer).
however, even if you don't agree with me, there are TONS more programs
on our site which are original pure freeware programs without nags,
expiration, etc., including some open source and cross platform
software:
http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/index.html
the Skrommel and Coding Snacks section in particular are filled with
freeware that was written on demand based on user requests in the
coding snacks section of our forum, and none of these programs expire,
nag, or use license keys.
Klaatu
> Or do as I did:
> email the author, tell him you don't want to donate and get a
> non-expiring key.
Still doesn't make it freeware...
--
Duct tape is much like The Force. It has a light side and a dark side
and holds the Universe together.
Klaatu
> well, i've said that i personally consider the software on our site
> that requires you to either email us for a non-expiring key, or else
> come back every 6 months for a new freeware license key (which removes
> all nags), to be freeware (or donationware if you prefer).
I prefer nagware, since that's what it does. Concensus here has concluded
that nagware (or donationware as you obviously prefer) is not freeware.
> however, even if you don't agree with me, there are TONS more programs
> on our site which are original pure freeware programs without nags,
> expiration, etc., including some open source and cross platform
> software:
>
> http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/index.html
Then please limit your discussion here to programs that are indeed
freeware. Discussions regarding registration at your site are also off-
topic.
--
Was I supposed to put something clever here?
Vic Dura
Re Re: Program similar to FindRun Robot - from developer of Find+Ru:
>On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:32:11 GMT, Azzman posted to alt.comp.freeware:
>
>> Or do as I did:
>> email the author, tell him you don't want to donate and get a
>> non-expiring key.
>
>Still doesn't make it freeware...
Yes it does.
tsa...@gmail.com
Hence freeware would be, to them, software requiring no money.
Mouser's software fits this exactly.
Free does NOT imply the existence or absence of an expiry date
Free does NOT imply free from having to do something (eg such as obtain
a free licence ).
Otherwise NO software could possibly be freeware as one is required to
download it, to install it, etc.
So if we're going to be so pedantic in our definition of freeware as
to include free from having to do anything, it follows that there is no
such thing as freeware.
Its a shame that such such a sensible, commonsense and fair approach to
"whatever want to call it ware" seems to be ignored for the sake of
pedantry.
As a reader here, I'd really prefer you to go away Klaatu, as Ive found
Mouser's posts to contain something worth reading as opposed to yours.
onth...@gmail.com
like Freeware to me, even if it isn't Freeware in the traditional sense
of the word, you can still get it for free with minimal effort (I just
did). You'll have to excuse the anal zealot's running around here.
You (Klaatu) tell him to limit his discussion here to programs that are
indeed freeware, but he didn't start the discussion. What? a person
doesn't have the right to argue their point or defend their position,
how closedminded & shortsighted is that? I wholeheartedly invite this
thread to continue as it is interesting, I can't recall a developer
doing something quite like this.
good day.
boltz
Craig
> Klaatu wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 14:32:23 GMT, mouser posted to alt.comp.freeware:
>>
>>
>>>most software listing sites do not have a "donationware" category;
>>>when they do, this is what we file under.
>>
>>Then why do you continue to post in a freeware newsgroup? Clearly your site
>>contains no freeware whatsoever, so please go away.
>>
>>--
>
> To most reasonable people, free = requires no money.
> Hence freeware would be, to them, software requiring no money.
> Mouser's software fits this exactly.
Acf's current definition reads as:
/Freeware: Legally obtainable software that you may use at no cost,
monetary or otherwise, for as long as you wish./
Their software seems to fall under this definition. Although the
proggies posing the dispute are registerware, it's been explained that
this can be legitimately avoided.
Mouser's also taken a fair amount of effort to explain what's going on,
including that his organization's policy is a work-in-progress. I hope
mouser continues with his work, his site and his (relevant & on-topic)
communications in acf.
In short, Klaatu doesn't speak for me on this.
Craig
Peter Seiler
> At least now you have admitted that statement was incorrect. A program
> that expires like this can't be called freeware I'm afraid.
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Spartacus
At least...a recommendation:
please, do a RFC-conform SIG-delimiter "-- " (DashDashSpace) instead of
"--" without space after the dashes. With your "--" without the Space
your SIG comes false as a quoting as you can see above :-(
THX for your kind understanding.
--
by(e) PS
spam will be killed
John Fitzsimons
wrote:
>>Mouser doesn't appear to want either of those options so he should
>>consider "plan B". The approach that many others take. Have two
>>versions of a fully working program. The first being freeware and the
>>second with "advanced" features.
>>People are often happy to pay for an "advanced" program if they like
>>the freeware one, and the seller is totally "up front" about how they
>>are doing things.
>this is actually an interesting point - personally the division of
>"lite" and "full" versions is exactly what we are trying to avoid.
Fair enough.
>our whole intent is to be able to bring everyone the full version and
>ask them to donate whatever they think it's worth to them, including
>nothing if they can't afford anything (or if they don't want to pay for
>it for whatever reason).
Okay, a very "idealistic" model. My point remains however, if people
don't try your programs then they will not be in a position to be even
considering donating. Your "system" could stop people making the first
step.
>we are specifically interested in promoting the idea that users should
>donate what they would like to (and are able to) donate, and not a cent
>more, for the full version of all of our programs. (note also in case
>it's not clear, users who donate any amount once get access to every
>program and all content on our site, it's not like you donate for each
>program).
Okay, thank you for the clarification. It is unfortunate that idealism
can so often clash with "reality". :-(
Freeware authors (rightly) expect a degree of promotion here. It is
perhaps a pity that when your site is mentioned in future that people
will mention your "gotchas". So will compare less favourably with
freeware sites without any strings attached.
Bye the way, your PayPal donation link says ..."We are sorry, we are
experiencing temporary difficulties...."
On a positive note I DO like your "Suggested Donation" page. :-)
Hope something here is of help to you.
Regards, John.
--
****************************************************
,-._|\ (A.C.F FAQ) http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
/ Oz \ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
\_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
v http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/
John Fitzsimons
wrote:
>i'm afraid that's right; after 6 months you need to visit the key page
>and click generate to make a new key for the program.
>actually i think we are probably going to change that to have it pop up
>the reminder to get a new key after 6 months and never expire; it would
>serve the same purpose.
A very good idea. I will tell you why. Suppose you were to go out of
business. Without being able to "renew" registration everyone using
your programs would find them becoming unusable.
Some people may have that in the back of their minds when
investigating your system.
Added to that sometimes people give away (supposedly freeware)
programs that "expire". When renewal comes they say "The cost is
now $ for renewal."
A devious (dishonest ?) way to get people to beta test their product.
John Fitzsimons
wrote:
>>I disagree. If you were "open and transparent" then you would tell
>>people BEFORE THEY DOWNLOAD anything that they will need to
>>"register" again and again and again and...... to use the programs as
>>freeware.
>just to be clear, you only have to "register" once. then after 6
>months you just go to the key page url and click one button to make
>another that lasts another 6 months.
Okay, still very annoying. I don't need that sort of irritation. I
have better things to do than to have to constantly go back to web
sites and "re-register". Or renew a registration.
>you said:
>>>bit of incentive. Requiring people who don't donate (or who aren't
>>>honorary members by way of being freeware authors, etc) to download a new
>>>freeware key every 6 months is one of the ways we are trying to do this.
>>Then why not clearly state that on your web pages ?
>here's the SECOND (bolded even) item on the "start" page
>(http://www.donationcoder.com/About/start.html):
>"I'm already using one of your programs.. Where can I download a
>freeware license key for it?
>In order to encourage donations, some of our programs require
>non-members to sign up at our forum and download a new freeware license
>key every 6 months."
Okay, I obviously missed reading that part.
>there is a LOT of information on our site, it's a bit hard to make
>every piece of information obvious from every page. we've been through
>menu iterations of the pages, moving information here and there, we're
>doing our best.
Well, the obvious place to be sure to include that info would be IMO
the download page ie.
http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/releases.html
Instead of saying "some require license keys" you could have said
"some require license keys, and renewal of these keys, every six
months."
Many people don't mind "registering" to get freeware. Many would
suggest that leaving out the six month bit from that page was
purposeful.
>>Bye the way, my gripe is NOT about paying for programs. I paid
>>for this newsreader and I have paid for other programs I use. I
>>just dislike sites that hide "limitations" until after someone has
>>"registered" and/or "downloaded".
>fair enough; every program page that requires a freeware license key
>says has a link at the very top item on the upper left of the page:
>"[Request License Key]" that takes you to key page whch explains
>exactly the policy. maybe we could add a little more information with
>that link.
Yes, instead of [Request Free License Key]
consider something like ;
This product requires a Free Licence to activate.
[Request Free License Key]
>i get the feeling that it's never going to be enough though. part of
>the problem is that people with plenty of money might feel like why are
>there all these complications? why can't i just push a "buy now"
>button? a problem with doing something more complicate than pure
>freeware or pure shareware is the difficulty of explaining the idea..
>probably never going to be a perfect solution. the only good part i
>guess is that the people who do join our site tend to be people who are
>a little more interested in being part of something, rather than just
>the gimme it now here's the money crowd.
The point is that in able to make "sales" er...donations, one first
needs to try out your programs. Registering even once will lose you a
great many potential customers. Repeated registering will lose you
more.
If your programs had been freeware I would have considered trying out
a number of them. As it was once I found out your "system" I didn't
bother. I don't need more annoyances in my life.
John Fitzsimons
wrote:
>if people are really interested i'd be happy to dig up and make
>available for download the last version that had no license key code.
>you can view the program help file for a complete version history to
>see if there's anything new you need:
>http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Mouser/findrun/help/index.html
< snip >
So people can try the "freeware" version before "donating" for the
"enhanced" one ? Good idea. :-)
Vic Dura
similar to FindRun Robot - from developer of Find+Ru:
>You'll have to excuse the anal zealot's running around here.
No, we don't have to excuse them. We have to tolerate them, but not
excuse them.
Vic Dura
Re Re: Program similar to FindRun Robot - from developer of Find+Ru:
>Acf's current definition reads as:
>
>/Freeware: Legally obtainable software that you may use at no cost,
>monetary or otherwise, for as long as you wish./
The "or otherwise" is subjective. Each person defines it for him/her
self.
tsa...@gmail.com
"Okay, still very annoying. I don't need that sort of irritation. I
have better things to do than to have to constantly go back to web
sites and "re-register". "
"The point is that in able to make "sales" er...donations"
A snide remark which doesn't become you. We could split hairs over
definitions of sales and donations till the cows come home, with no one
changing their position.
Why not just embrace the spirit of what mouser is trying to do and be a
bit generous of spirit? Guess I'm trying to say with that, go with the
CONSTRUCTIVE comments, but leave out the odious comparisons to "devious
(dishonest?)" people.
mouser
>business. Without being able to "renew" registration everyone using
>your programs would find them becoming unusable.
>Some people may have that in the back of their minds when
>investigating your system.
that's a very good point - here is what we have said publically on our
forum and maybe it needs to be put into print on the pages:
if we ever go "out of business", and the license keys are no longer
generated, all full member non-expiring license keys can be freely
shared.
in other words, should we ever dissapear, people are invited to
distribute and share non-expiring license keys publically.
mouser
people are (perhaps rightly) focusing on the 6 months renewal thing.
the main point of that was like most of our approach, to try to get
people to really *think* about donating; we hope that by getting them
back to the site after 6 months of use they will realize "hey i really
use this program, and the site has just gotten better in those 6 months
since i decided not to donate, maybe not i will".
but as i've said w.r.t. people being able to email me to request a
non-expiring license if they are sure they don't want to donate, maybe
we could allay some concerns if we simply said this:
Your initial freeware license key generated will turn into a "startup
nag/reminder" (and not expire the program) after 6 months.
At that point you can return to our site and generate a *permanent
non-expiring license key* for the program.
That would 1) make it so the programs never stop working.
and 2) make it so you only ever have to come back once for a renewal
key, after that it turns into full normal pure non-expiring non-nagging
freeware.
Alternatively if we were worried that that would make it just too
tempting to hit the "make me a non-expiring license key" button and
quickly never look back, we could ask that they renew twice before it
turned into a full non-expiring license key, i.e. after 6 months you
download another 6 month key, and after that you are given permanent
non-expiring license key; that's a no brainer for me and i see no
reason not to add that right away; later we can decide maybe we should
just give a permanent key at the time of first renewal.
i'd appreciate any thoughts on this - maybe this is a compromise that
people on the fence can feel good about?
No I'm Spartacus
<pspr...@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>At least...a recommendation:
>
>please, do a RFC-conform SIG-delimiter "-- " (DashDashSpace) instead of
>"--" without space after the dashes. With your "--" without the Space
>your SIG comes false as a quoting as you can see above :-(
>
>THX for your kind understanding.
Hi Peter,
Hm, my sig actually had two spaces after the "--" so it should have
been ok. Anyway, I've removed one, so it is now just "-- " and should
be ok (I hope). Thanks for the suggestion.
--
Regards,
Spartacus
onth...@gmail.com
boltz
David
<re...@to.newsgroup.only> typed furiously:
This one now works correctly, thanks.
--
David
Remove "farook" to reply
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
E-mail: justdas at iinet dot net dot au
Vic Dura
wrote Re Re: Program similar to FindRun Robot - from developer of
Find+Ru:
>That would 1) make it so the programs never stop working.
>and 2) make it so you only ever have to come back once for a renewal
>key, after that it turns into full normal pure non-expiring non-nagging
>freeware.
This seems reasonable.
B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson
> Hm, Instant File Name Search eh? It looks interesting - what I could
> do is set my file manager (Total Commander) to take over from Windows
> Explorer as the default for opening folders, do a search in I.F.N.S
> and when I get a result, double click on it to open it in TC. That's
> an alternative way to do what I wanted. I think I will give it a go.
> Will post back here with my results.
Seems a bit long winded to me. Most file mangers that support a tree
view have means to quickly locate directories. Take Tracker as an
example: Use the <Fully Expand> function to get the directory tree
in whole, select the top folder you whish to start your search in and
then just type the name of the required folder until the cursor gets
unto it.
<OT>
The same goes for the TC you use. Set the option <Always load complete
directory tree> and you can quickly jump to any folder inside the tree
by just hitting Alt+Ctrl+xyz... (xyz... being the name of the folder).
The first time you load the tree will take a few seconds. Later on
the access is instant.
Remember to replace Alt+Ctrl by the key combination you set up inside
the options menu. To search for sub-strings starting *anywhere* inside
the folder names you need to use the '*-'char as first letter. The
combination Ctrl+Enter jumps between all possible finds for the
current selection. There are other quick-access means inside TC, too.
(CD-Tree for instance.)
</OT>
BeAr
--
===========================================================================
= What do you mean with: "Perfection is always an illusion"? =
===============================================================--(Oops!)===
No I'm Spartacus
<br.ed...@expires-2005-12-31.arcornews.de> wrote:
>
>Seems a bit long winded to me. Most file mangers that support a tree
>view have means to quickly locate directories. Take Tracker as an
>example: Use the <Fully Expand> function to get the directory tree
>in whole, select the top folder you whish to start your search in and
>then just type the name of the required folder until the cursor gets
>unto it.
>
><OT>
>The same goes for the TC you use. Set the option <Always load complete
>directory tree> and you can quickly jump to any folder inside the tree
>by just hitting Alt+Ctrl+xyz... (xyz... being the name of the folder).
>The first time you load the tree will take a few seconds. Later on
>the access is instant.
>
>Remember to replace Alt+Ctrl by the key combination you set up inside
>the options menu. To search for sub-strings starting *anywhere* inside
>the folder names you need to use the '*-'char as first letter. The
>combination Ctrl+Enter jumps between all possible finds for the
>current selection. There are other quick-access means inside TC, too.
>(CD-Tree for instance.)
></OT>
>
>BeAr
Hi BeAr,
That actually works quite well. Thanks for that suggestion. In the
meantime, I had actually got the long winded method to work. I ended
up using Agent Ransack as the search program, and had fiddled with the
registry to make TC take over from Explorer when opening folders. I
would open Agent Ransack (which was set to search the folder where I
keep all my downloaded programs), type in the name of the program I
wanted (under the programs folder, each download has its own folder,
named after the program itself), hit the search button, and when the
match came up, double clicked on the folder to open that folder in TC.
With your method, all I have to do is to switch drives, hit Alt+F10,
start typing the folder name and it should come up first (Ctrl+Enterif
there is more than one match and the first match is not the one I
want).
This is basically what I wanted to do from the start - I only wish now
that you could set TC to always open the tree view in the same drive
or folder each time - that way, I could knock out the extra step of
having to change drives before I went into the tree view. I kep my
programs on a separate drive to the c: drive, and most of the time I
am using TC to access files on the c: drive - and when you go into
TC's tree view, it opens in the folder that was active (eg have
c:\temp active, open the tree view and TC will automatically put the
tree view on c:\temp).
--
Regards,
Spartacus
B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson
> That actually works quite well. Thanks for that suggestion. In the
> meantime, I had actually got the long winded method to work. I ended
> up using Agent Ransack as the search program, and had fiddled with the
> registry to make TC take over from Explorer when opening folders. I
> would open Agent Ransack (which was set to search the folder where I
> keep all my downloaded programs), type in the name of the program I
> wanted (under the programs folder, each download has its own folder,
> named after the program itself), hit the search button, and when the
> match came up, double clicked on the folder to open that folder in TC.
> With your method, all I have to do is to switch drives, hit Alt+F10,
> start typing the folder name and it should come up first (Ctrl+Enterif
> there is more than one match and the first match is not the one I
> want).
Yuck! Have you ever tried to just search for 'files' which have the
attribute *directory* and a given name specification?! That is common
functionality of most file manager search dialogs!
<OT>
If you can think of a function a file manager could/should support,
you can be (nearly) certain that it *is* implemented somewhere within
your (and my) favorite file manager. Just read the help about Tabs,
Feed [search results] to listbox, Ctrl-Right/Left keys and other nice
functions.
</OT>
> This is basically what I wanted to do from the start - I only wish now
> that you could set TC to always open the tree view in the same drive
> or folder each time - that way, I could knock out the extra step of
> having to change drives before I went into the tree view. I kep my
> programs on a separate drive to the c: drive, and most of the time I
> am using TC to access files on the c: drive - and when you go into
> TC's tree view, it opens in the folder that was active (eg have
> c:\temp active, open the tree view and TC will automatically put the
> tree view on c:\temp).
<OT>Browse the options. You can set this program to *not* save the
last position on exit. Instead, there is a special menu entry to save
the current appearance on *any* point of time you may whish.</OT>
You either should look for a more simple file manager or RTFM. Else
most of the goodies are lost on you... ;-) There are good free
alternatives like Tracker which you *may* find more intuitive. But
nothing will spare you the need to read the manuals.
Saxman
> Over the 8 or 9 months since the site has been online, we've never once
> hesitated or questioned someone who asked for a free license - nor made
> them feel bad about asking - that's just the whole point of what we are
> trying to do.
Mouser has honorably provided me with a lifetime key upon request for which
I am thankful.
After installation and registering the key, several annoying pop-ups
remained, but now seem to have disappeared.
For such a good utility, the donation reminders are a shame. Maybe it
should be shareware?
Craig
Agreed.
Craig