Nationals Results (from memory)

David Dixon

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Apr 24, 1994, 11:44:58 PM4/24/94

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Hi folks,

Well, I just got back, and here are some of the results:

Round-Robin (may not be exactly right)
===========

Chicago 13-2
BYU 12-3
Virginia 11-4
GWU 10-5
UT-Dallas 9-6
Iowa State 9-6
Midwestern 8-7
W. Mich 8-7
Berkeley 8-7
NeMO 7-8
(I forget the next few)
Cornell 2-13
Oregon 0-15

BYU, for religious reasons, did not play in the finals, so it was Chicago
vs. Virginia. Chicago won handily.

As for our performance, we lead the league in interrupts. 'nuf said.

D^2
"I'll get you next time my pretty!" - TWWOTW

KEELINWB

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Apr 25, 1994, 12:28:40 AM4/25/94

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dixon@physics2 (David Dixon) writes:

:Hi folks,

:Well, I just got back, and here are some of the results:

:Round-Robin (may not be exactly right)
:===========

:Chicago 13-2
:BYU 12-3
:Virginia 11-4
:GWU 10-5
:UT-Dallas 9-6
:Iowa State 9-6
:Midwestern 8-7
:W. Mich 8-7
:Berkeley 8-7
:NeMO 7-8
:(I forget the next few)
:Cornell 2-13
:Oregon 0-15

:BYU, for religious reasons, did not play in the finals, so it was Chicago
:vs. Virginia. Chicago won handily.

Is this for real?? What were the "religious reasons"?

A random comment -
It seem as if both UT Dallas and Midwestern State were highly
underrated by the majority of us. Congrats are in order for the
underdogs!!! :-) (And to Chicagoo, of course foor another win)
:D^2

:"I'll get you next time my pretty!" - TWWOTW

Brent Keeling
Home of the second place finisher in the NIT
(that and 50 cents will buy you a coke)

Tanya N Cota-Robles

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Apr 25, 1994, 12:55:12 AM4/25/94

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dixon@physics2 (David Dixon) writes:

: UT-Dallas 9-6

Gotta defend my people...make that 10-5, tied with GWU to whom we lost head
to head by twenty points.

Tanya
le...@utdallas.edu
Tired UT-Dallas College Bowl Netrunner (& U-Chicago Cheerleader)

DFRYE

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Apr 25, 1994, 4:30:12 AM4/25/94

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In article <1994Apr25.0...@news.vanderbilt.edu>,
KEEL...@ctrvx1.Vanderbilt.Edu (KEELINWB) writes:

Is this for real?? What were the "religious reasons"?

They're Mormons. DUH!!!!!!!

;-)
Darrell

gre...@yvax.byu.edu

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Apr 25, 1994, 4:20:39 PM4/25/94

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In article <1994Apr25.0...@news.vanderbilt.edu>, KEEL...@ctrvx1.Vanderbilt.Edu (KEELINWB) writes:

> :BYU, for religious reasons, did not play in the finals, so it was Chicago
> :vs. Virginia. Chicago won handily.
> Is this for real?? What were the "religious reasons"?

In fact, I asked myself a similar question a number of times. Over the last
few tournaments, I've developed a liking for playing college bowl in finals
games in front of a large number of people. Here's our chance to play in THE
final game in front of lots and lots of people. So we decline to play and let
Virginia play instead. Is this for real? What were we thinking?

Our reasons were, in ascending order of importance:

1. BYU policy is that its teams don't compete on Sunday;

2. All the members of the team are Mormons, and the teaching of the chruch is
that we shouldn't participate in competitive events on Sunday;

3. And each one of us individually didn't feel that participating in Sunday's
final games would be right.

I myself thought it would be OK to watch the finals, but then again I was in
the throes of College Bowl Lust and my conscience wasn't totally reliable on
this. It was still aggravating for me not to play, but it was the right thing
for me to do.

And I thought Virginia was as deserving of their appearance in the finals as we
were. The reason we were there in the first place was a last-second five-point
victory in our head to head match. Winning it was one of the high points of
my college bowl career, but I'm fully aware that CBI packets turn games between
strong teams into a crapshoot. Anybody could have won that game (and a few
others where we came out ahead).

I also was pleased to see Chicago win. They're a classy team and, in my
opinion, qualitatively better than anyone else in the nation right now. I
think BYU belongs to a group of half dozen or so schools that are just about
equal, but Chicago is better. Not that I wouldn't have minded the opportunity
to try beating them...

Other stray thoughts on the CBI NCT:

High points:

Bryce Inouye answering the bonus that asked for the senior senator from Hawaii
and then spelling "Inouye." It was a stress reliever in our final game against
Berkeley. (Another high point was the end of the game--with a tied score and
ten seconds left, the tossup included the words "Alfred Hitchcock" and Norm was
playing.)

Re: Norm. I think he wins the "Oldest Old Guy" award. I'll let the discussion
of "Most Annoying Old Guy" take place out of public view.

Low points:

"This nation lit candles to celebrate the sixtieth brithday of Kim--"
--(Bryce buzzes in)--
"Oh, I mean King--"
--(Oh, Crap!)
If you played in this room, you know the moderator I'm talking about.

And then there was the time I beat everybody to the buzzer so I could misspell
"competiveness" _exactly_ the same way Quayle and staff did. I suppose this is
my reward for voting for Bush.

Was it just me, or did anybody else think the questions for the NCT this year
were kind of odd? Compared to last year, current events came up a great deal
less. Academic subjects may have been slightly more represented, but it didn't
really seem like it. There were a lot of questions that turned into eight-way
buzzer races, and impulse buzzing was usually rewarded. (Then again, this is
from memory, and my perspective could be skewed.)

I was surprised by how well the one-player teams did. With some
established programs, better supporting casts, and more tournament experience,
the geography of college bowl could change a lot.

Four of the five on our team will be back next year. Our 1992 55 ppg NCT
allstar will be back next year. I can't wait until next year.

Jonathan Green
who's still grinning

Doug O'Neal

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Apr 25, 1994, 10:51:38 PM4/25/94

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In article <2phnoo$2...@alnitak.usc.edu> kasi...@alnitak.usc.edu (Srinivasamurthy Kasibhotla) writes:

> When invitationals are held on the west coast, the organizers
> know that BYU does not play on Sundays, so the tournments are
> scheduled entirely on Saturdays or Friday evening/Saturday.

I've never been to an invitational that continued until Sunday, even
on the East Coast. I just read about Florida's, but that's a rare case.

> It's too bad CBI could not make concessions of the same
> nature. IMO, BYU can not be faulted, because their stand
> on this issue is well known, and it is not a surprise they
> sprung at the last moment.

Neither can CBI be faulted; as someone else said, they make plenty
of concessions already. It wouldn't be fair to the fifteen other
teams to vastly restructure the schedule to accomodate one team, much
less making everybody leave a day earlier and miss an extra day's classes
soon before final exams.

Again, I'm not judging anyone's philosophy ... not being Christian,
I'm uniquely unqualified to do so. But making the final and not
playing, or forfeiting matches in general, borders on, at least,
poor sportsmanship. I would play on my holidays (though I might be
bummed to miss celebrating with friends), and honor that which made
me by using the gift of my intelligence and knowledge in this
enjoyable, constructive, and peacefully (usually!) competitive activity.

> Vasu

Doug

Tanya N Cota-Robles

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Apr 25, 1994, 4:17:39 PM4/25/94

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DFRYE (df...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <1994Apr25.0...@news.vanderbilt.edu>,
: KEEL...@ctrvx1.Vanderbilt.Edu (KEELINWB) writes:

: Is this for real?? What were the "religious reasons"?

: They're Mormons. DUH!!!!!!!

A guy named Moses once wrote down a few interesting things his Father
told him, one of which was 'Keep the Sabbath day holy'. The BYU team
decided it would be better to follow that rule than not.

Tanya
le...@utdallas.edu
Official UT-Dallas College Bowl Netrunner

Patrick G. Matthews

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Apr 26, 1994, 12:21:06 AM4/26/94

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In article <> kasi...@alnitak.usc.edu (Srinivasamurthy Kasibhotla) writes:
> When invitationals are held on the west coast, the organizers
> know that BYU does not play on Sundays, so the tournments are
> scheduled entirely on Saturdays or Friday evening/Saturday.

Most tourneys period are scheduled for Saturdays or Friday/Saturday.

> It's too bad CBI could not make concessions of the same
> nature. IMO, BYU can not be faulted, because their stand
> on this issue is well known, and it is not a surprise they
> sprung at the last moment.

There are quite a few problems with this statement:
1) The dates for the NCT are decided long before anyone knows what the field
will be. Who knows whether or not BYU will win Region 13 when the dates
are set?

2) The tourney *has* to be on a weekend. By this time of year, we're
getting down to exams and the like, so a weekday tourney could be a
problem for the students involved. As important, CBI relies on many
volunteers who simply would not be available except on the weekends.

2a) Because many of these volunteers are coming from out of town and
presumably have to work for a living, you've got to let them travel to the
tourney site on Friday. You may not have enough volunteers to actually
play matches on Friday night.

3) Accomodations are already made for BYU. I don't know how the schedule
looked this year, but last year the friendly folks at CBI scheduled all 15
of BYU's matches for Saturday. This did have repercussions--my Penn team
had to deal with something like 4 byes in the first six rounds, partly as
a result of the schedule tweaking to accomodate BYU. But how far can
accomodations be made? At some point, a team has to decide what its
priorities are and stick by them for better or for worse.

4) How far should CBI go in general? What if a Jewish school made it and
said that they could not play from sundown on Friday to Sundown on
Saturday. Should the NCT be moved? I think not. I guess that team would
just have to take a bunch of forfeits on day one.

Now, just to make sure no one misunderstands me:
I have used BYU as an example in this discussion, just for convenience's
sake. I want to say that BYU has never in my experience been anything less
than excellent in the sportsmanship department. I do not mean to imply
anything nefarious on their part.

Pat
--
"Young Patrick" Matthews matt...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
314 South 40th Street Penn Band Flag-Waver Extraordinaire
Philadelphia, PA 19104 Penn College Bowl Foreign Minister
(215) 382-2491 Owner, East Norwalk New Originals

Matt Bruce

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Apr 25, 1994, 2:51:45 PM4/25/94

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: dixon@physics2 (David Dixon) writes:

: :Round-Robin (may not be exactly right)
: :===========

If he copied them off the blackboard wrong, Decker gets to flame him. :)

: :Chicago 13-2

Congratulations. They go out in style.

: :UT-Dallas 9-6
: :Iowa State 9-6

Most underrated by me. I didn't expect these two teams to tie for fifth; congrats.
[...]

Dartmouth 3-12 (per Steve Schmidt via Tom)
: :Cornell 2-13
: :Oregon 0-15

: :BYU, for religious reasons, did not play in the finals, so it was Chicago
: :vs. Virginia. Chicago won handily.

KEELINWB (KEEL...@ctrvx1.Vanderbilt.Edu) wrote:

: Is this for real?? What were the "religious reasons"?

Should we tell him? No reason not to: As a Mormon institution, I gather they cannot
participate in such an activity on a Sunday.

[...]
: Brent Keeling

: Home of the second place finisher in the NIT
: (that and 50 cents will buy you a coke)

I miss that part of the country, especially when I'm extorted for $.65, .75, .85 or even
(only in swank hotels) $1.00! God bless that part of the world where pop (what the @#$% is
"soda", anyway?) costs only what it is supposed to! :)

Disappointed That P. Roy Went to Lourdes and Not T. Scheuerzinger,
Matt

--
Matt Bruce (mlb...@husc.harvard.edu); my opinions are uniquely mine.
"I'm sure that if he could speak, he would say 'You won't have Richard
Nixon to kick around any longer.'" --Jeffrey Angus

Quintilius Varus

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Apr 26, 1994, 9:46:04 AM4/26/94

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In article <ONEAL.94A...@aloha.astro.psu.edu> on...@astro.psu.edu (Doug O'Neal) writes:
>
> Neither can CBI be faulted; as someone else said, they make plenty
> of concessions already.
>

Everyone, it seems, is missing a MAJOR point here. CBI requires the teams to
attend a 7 P.M. Friday night meeting. The teams are already there. Having
4 rounds, say, Friday night, and moving the finals to Saturday night, WILL
NOT CHANGE TEAMS TRAVEL PLANS.

The extra classes missed explanation is thus hooey.

********************************************************************************
Peter Freeman *pet...@oddjob.uchicago.edu
LASR 225 (2-6684) *If you wish to contribute
Quote of the Day: *questions to the anon ftp
"Kiss my ass." *site, send them to the
-John Edwards, holding Eeyore. *above address.
********************************************************************************

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Apr 25, 1994, 8:48:14 PM4/25/94

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In article <1994Apr25...@yvax.byu.edu> gre...@yvax.byu.edu writes:

>In article <1994Apr25.0...@news.vanderbilt.edu>, KEEL...@ctrvx1.Vanderbilt.Edu (KEELINWB) writes:

>And I thought Virginia was as deserving of their appearance in the finals
>as we
>were. The reason we were there in the first place was a last-second
>five-point
>victory in our head to head match. Winning it was one of the high points of
>my college bowl career, but I'm fully aware that CBI packets turn games
>between
>strong teams into a crapshoot. Anybody could have won that game (and a few
>others where we came out ahead).

BYU may think what they want, but my ego is still flat from the steamrolling
they administered to Iowa State in round 2. I was very disappointed that the
tournament wasn't run in such a way that BYU could play for the championship;
we beat Virginia and in my opinion BYU should have been in the finals.

Those who know me realize that I resent religious people intruding on my
personal space with special demands, but in this case I think that the
tournament would have been improved for all concerned had BYU been able
to compete. If starting the tournament a day earlier, or beginning play on
Friday night, or somesuch solution would have made it hard on some teams who
had to travel then my assessment of the situation would change; as it is,
I think it should have been scheduled to allow BYU to play in the finals.

And now, for something I am extremely irate about:

BYU PLAYERS WERE NOT ALLOWED ON THE ALL-STAR BALLOT BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT
PLAY IN THE ALL-STAR GAME. All-star-dom is not determined by playing in
the All-Star game, it is determined by consistently racking up copious
quantities of points in the regular tournament which at least two of the
BYU players did with wild aplomb. I think that BYU players were unjustly
and unreasonably cheated out of top individual Honors at the tournament.
It would not be difficult to award the prizes to them and then take the
ninth and tenth finishers in the voting to play in the game.

>I also was pleased to see Chicago win. They're a classy team and, in my

>opinion, qualitatively better than anyone else in the nation right now.

Yes.

>And then there was the time I beat everybody to the buzzer so I could misspell
>"competiveness" _exactly_ the same way Quayle and staff did. I suppose
>this is

You got *screwed* on this question. The moderator said, "Spell
'competiveness'" [sic] which you did perfectly because it was perfectly
reasonable to ask "How did Quayle's commission misspell the word." She meant
to pronounce it correctly. Thanks for the 10 points, though.

There was one moderator who was atrocious: "Dez-kar-tess". Other than that
the officials were excellent. It was a real pleasure to play with judges as
precise and efficient as the ones at Nationals.

>Was it just me, or did anybody else think the questions for the NCT this year
>were kind of odd? Compared to last year, current events came up a great deal
>less. Academic subjects may have been slightly more represented, but it
>didn't
>really seem like it. There were a lot of questions that turned into eight-way
>buzzer races, and impulse buzzing was usually rewarded. (Then again, this is
>from memory, and my perspective could be skewed.)

I would guess that 50% of the toss-ups were on current events and started with
"In 1993" or "In 1994". I was very disappoint by this as it is certainly
not one of my specialties. Academic subjects were slightly more prevalent,
but hardly sufficient for my tastes. The buzzer races were obnoxious, but
so bad as to be a really negative experience.

>I was surprised by how well the one-player teams did. With some
>established programs, better supporting casts, and more tournament experience,
>the geography of college bowl could change a lot.

"Go west, young man, go west."

>Four of the five on our team will be back next year. Our 1992 55 ppg NCT
>allstar will be back next year. I can't wait until next year.

We'll all be back. Hope to see you all again next year! (Or earlier,
at our Fall invitational. E-mail for more information)

--
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
`' R. Robert Hentzel topq...@iastate.edu '`
'` Iowa State University `'
`' '`

gre...@yvax.byu.edu

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Apr 26, 1994, 5:24:23 PM4/26/94

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In article <2pjfbv$i...@masala.cc.uh.edu>, smtu...@cs.uh.edu ( ) writes:

> The confusion is very likely due to the fact that the Stat-Keeper (sp?)
> pragram listed the players in terms of average points-per-round, which
> is slightly different. (It was announced in advance that total points,
> rather than average points-per-round, would be the criterion...)

That clears up one mystery. Let this be a lesson to all would-be allstars:
Never have a fifth player on the team, because your _total_ points will go
down. I guess I'll have to start lying awake at night, cursing fate and
devising plans to eliminate the players who took my spot on the ballot one by
one.

Seriously, I think it's somehow fitting that none of us BYU players made the
allstar ballotting, because there weren't any stars on our team, just players
who made solid contributions in every game and took turns saving games. If I
remember correctly, we all finished within 10 ppg and 3 inches on the player
rankings.

Jonathan Green

gre...@yvax.byu.edu

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Apr 26, 1994, 5:02:18 PM4/26/94

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In article <2phtqf$h...@search01.news.aol.com>, df...@aol.com (DFRYE) writes:

> CBI does make special concessions to BYU, to wit.
>
> 1) They give them as many byes as possible on Sunday, so that they will be able
> to play as many matches as possible, and forfeit as few as possible (this year,
> if I figure correctly they only had to foreit one match)
> 2) They schedule as many matches on Saturday as they can so that Byu can play
> in as many.....

In fact, we didn't have to forfeit any matches in the round robin this year, or
any other year in living memory, for that matter.

> 3) They allow BYU to come and compete in the National Championship tournament
> each year, even though they know that BYU will never be able to win it because
> they can't play on Sunday.

Up until now it hasn't mattered much, because we weren't in a good position to
win it. (I don't think people are all that upset now about BYU not being able
to play on Sunday. If CBI decided not to allow BYU to play in the NCT because
they could never win it, then you would see some upset people.)

>
> And many many more reasons that aren't coming to mind. CBI isn't this horrible
> terrorist neo-nazi organization that everyone seems to think they are. Trust
> me, BYU could be much worse off.

I agree. CBI did give us a schedule with all our games on Saturday.

> Last year they came to the Sunshine State
> Invit. at U of F and wound up forfeiting half their matches because it was a
> Sat.-Sun tournament.

Actually, it was only about a quarter or a third of the matches.

> I asked they why they came all that way even though they
> were going to miss all those matches and the answer was something like "Because
> it's fun, and we'd rather spend a weekend in January in Florida than in Utah"
>
> Darrell

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Apr 27, 1994, 5:15:28 AM4/27/94

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From the keyboard of mlb...@scws1.harvard.edu (Matt Bruce):
> Wouldn't many Seventh Day Adventists be unable to play on Saturday anyway?

Um, that's the point.

> It's almost impossible to schedule around _everybody's_ beliefs.

As far as my own beliefs take me, unless it's a very special day, one
can do whatever acts one pleases (as long as you're not being nasty or
something, and anyway what goes around comes around). Anyway, I think
that making the Nationals on Wednesday-Thursday would be best.

In fact, I think they should be made into a week-long extravaganza,
with heavy corporate (including airline & hotel) sponsorship, trips to
amusement parks and the beach and museums and unique historical sites
in the region, keynote addresses by great College Bowlers of the past,
side games with the opportunity to play for prizes, and leisure rounds
where the teams are mixed up and you get to know folks from other
schools. Of course, everyone would journey to a NTN site (which
admits people under 21!) and blow away the nation, and we would have
karaoke. What does everyone think?

(Believe it or not, this plan is loosely based on how the
International Physics Olympiad works. 10 hours of tests are spread
out over a week of fun and games, and people from different countries
get to know each other really well.)

Sendhil
(IPhO 1994 Guide)
--

Sendhil Revuluri (s-rev...@uchicago.edu)
University of Chicago

Matt Bruce

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Apr 26, 1994, 5:51:21 PM4/26/94

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Wouldn't many Seventh Day Adventists be unable to play on Saturday anyway?

It's almost impossible to schedule around _everybody's_ beliefs.

-M

Julie K. Stahlhut

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Apr 26, 1994, 10:53:43 PM4/26/94

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Well, religious beliefs are personal things, and aren't meant to be
subject to logical scrutiny. Those of us who are not believers in
any supernatural things often don't empathize with this, but I think
BYU was impressive for sticking to their principles (not to mention
how impressive they are as a team to begin with!)
--
Julie K. Stahlhut, Portable Curmudgeoness x92st...@wmich.edu

"People who are intolerant should be shot."
--- Scott Griffith (MIT '81)

Boy of Destiny

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Apr 27, 1994, 2:12:01 AM4/27/94

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In article <2pkd3k$3...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Stephen.M.Schmidt@dartmouth.
edu (Schlitzy) writes:

[Deleted Sharon Tuttle's explanation of total points vs. PPG]

>Just a quick correction --- THE ABOVE IS NOT TRUE!!! Whether one does
>total points or average points, it should not matter. Since the BYU
>players played the same number of games as all the other All-Stars, if
>their ppg was higher, then their tpg should have been higher. Ergo,
>they should have been put on the ballot.

>Just wanted to set the record straight... :)

Ummmm.... I'm confused here Steve. Our fifth man, Kevin, had a PPG that was
higher than many others that were on the All-Star ballot, but since he
played five games, he did not have a high point total. Since that was the
criterion for All-Star, he did not make the ballot.

You assume that BYU had the same four people in each game, but they used a
fifth man often. As Jonathan said, they spread their points rather evenly.
Therefore, there is no necessary correlation between PPG and total points.

I was surprised that none of the BYU team did make the ballot- at least two
of their players should have been there, but I bet they were 17 or 18 on the
list. But I guess BYU's performance was a team effort more than anything
else. And, IMO, that makes their placement even more special.

John
one-half of the victorious Trivial Pursuit '80s edition team in
Florida

======================================================================
John J. Edwards 5514 S. University Ave.
University of Chicago Chicago, Illinois 60637
Student in the College (312) 702-5601

"It's not easy having a mind that operates on a higher plane than
everyone else's! People just refuse to see that I'm the crux of
all history, a boy of destiny!"- "Calvin and Hobbes"
=====================================================================

Doug O'Neal

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Apr 27, 1994, 10:52:17 AM4/27/94

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In article <1994Apr27.0...@midway.uchicago.edu> re...@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Sendhil Revuluri) writes:

> From the keyboard of mlb...@scws1.harvard.edu (Matt Bruce):
> > Wouldn't many Seventh Day Adventists be unable to play on Saturday anyway?

> Um, that's the point.

> > It's almost impossible to schedule around _everybody's_ beliefs.

> As far as my own beliefs take me, unless it's a very special day, one
> can do whatever acts one pleases (as long as you're not being nasty or
> something, and anyway what goes around comes around). Anyway, I think
> that making the Nationals on Wednesday-Thursday would be best.

Unless, of course, that Wednesday-Thursday happens to coincide with
Beltane, Oestara, Samhain, Imbolc, etc., for us Pagans! (8-)). Or the
full moon for that matter!

Actually, I've said that I wouldn't have a problem playing on one
of the holidays, College Bowl being a neato and peacefully competitive
activity that utilizes my comparatively unique skills and all. But
some people would. But again, you can't please everybody, and in our
secular society where the weekend is seen as a time for recreation,
that's the only reasonable time to have a tournament for players who
are full-time, (presumably) conscientious students and moderators and
other volunteers who have full time jobs.

> Sendhil
> (IPhO 1994 Guide)

Doug

Boy of Destiny

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Apr 28, 1994, 1:06:31 AM4/28/94

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In article <2pmard$r...@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> en...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (
Julie K. Stahlhut) writes:

>Funny you should say that, Sendhil. In all seriousness, the two most
>fun games I played in Florida were the All-Star game and the side
>excursion to Players for NTN with Peter Freeman, Kevin Klowden, John
>Edwards, Dave Dixon, and the entire over-21 portion of the WMU contingent.

The same with me, Julie. My favorite at NTN was seeing the bartenders' faces
when we lifted their ranking that night from somewhere around #1800 to #2.

>I can flame for hours about how it would be great to have mix-and-match
>rounds at the ends of tournaments. I really enjoyed the ones at the end
>of ACF regionals, especially when Kevin sat in with us and Sendhil sat
>in with Illinois B. I had also hoped for a chance to sit in with some
>of Whammu's B and C team players. Some of my teammates weren't as up for
>that kind of thing as I was -- I can understand that, because most of them
>are highly competitive people, while for me competition is secondary to
>meeting people with the same interests as mine. But I wish I'd overruled
>them more energetically. I've always wondered what it would be like to play
>with some hoopy froods and froodettes like Peter, Josh, Damon, Su, Guy, Ted,
>and .... well, you name 'em. I'm hoping to make those dreams come true at
>Masters in this and future years, and maybe at some invitationals in the
>future, since I have every intention of staying on the circuit as a
>volunteer.

I like this idea as well. That is why I love tournaments such as The
Philadelphia Experiment, Masters, and our unique Chicago-Illinois Love Fest,
being held this weekend. The only problem I see for this is making the time
for these extra rounds, and then, who writes the rounds?

>Julie
>(who is also Sendhil's MBTI twin!!!!)

You know, I always thought I saw a similarity....
You'll have to let me know what this means.

John
high on his weekly 90210-Melrose Place fix

DFRYE

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Apr 27, 1994, 11:16:11 PM4/27/94

to

In article <1994Apr27.0...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
re...@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Sendhil Revuluri) writes:

As far as my own beliefs take me, unless it's a very special day, one
can do whatever acts one pleases (as long as you're not being nasty or
something, and anyway what goes around comes around).

My own personal belief is that one can do whatever one chooses to do (ex.
running around barefoot in the city, cheating on one's taxes, commiting
adultery), as long as he or she is willing to suffer the consequences, whatever
they may be (ex, stepping on broken glass, doing 5-10, eternal damnation and
the full wrath of an angry ex).

DSarrell (who cnat tpye tdoay)

Tanya N Cota-Robles

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Apr 28, 1994, 1:19:10 AM4/28/94

to

Julie--

If you'd hung around the practice rooms on Friday night, there were some
chances to mix-n-match with other teams, assuming you were brave enough
to sit down at a table with semi-strangers. I must admit it was interesting
playing on a team with Peter and Kevin (and getting a whopping total of one
question!) and I definitely think we should make more chances to play with
people from different teams.

Tanya
le...@utdallas.edu
Freelance College Bowler and Martian Hunter

R. Robert Hentzel

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Apr 27, 1994, 1:19:15 PM4/27/94

to

In article <1994Apr27.0...@midway.uchicago.edu> re...@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>(Believe it or not, this plan is loosely based on how the
>International Physics Olympiad works. 10 hours of tests are spread
>out over a week of fun and games, and people from different countries
>get to know each other really well.)
>
>Sendhil
>(IPhO 1994 Guide)

Were you ever on the team?

R. Robert Hentzel -- 1991

Tanya N Cota-Robles

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Apr 27, 1994, 1:34:31 PM4/27/94

to

Sendhil Revuluri (re...@kimbark.uchicago.edu) wrote:

: In fact, I think they should be made into a week-long extravaganza,

: with heavy corporate (including airline & hotel) sponsorship, trips to
: amusement parks and the beach and museums and unique historical sites
: in the region, keynote addresses by great College Bowlers of the past,
: side games with the opportunity to play for prizes, and leisure rounds
: where the teams are mixed up and you get to know folks from other
: schools. Of course, everyone would journey to a NTN site (which
: admits people under 21!) and blow away the nation, and we would have
: karaoke. What does everyone think?

Hey, as long as we're dreaming, dream big. Of course, waking up will be
kinda annoying....your ideas make this year's NCT look dinky which really
takes a lot. However, for the record, I ***DEFINITELY*** agree about the
NTN sites letting in people under the age of 21. In fact, I don't think
any places possesing an NTN site should be allowed to have an age restriction
for entrance, since the game is such good clean fun. Particularly, I don't
think places in Gainesville with the only NTN site in the area should keep
out mature, responsible youths who have no intention of drinking and just
wanted to chum around with some people they might never see again and make
toast of the nation's triviameisters. But, as it's highly unlikely that
people affiliated with such highly insensitive and discriminatory
institutions will actually be reading this, I suppose I can get off my
soapbox. *sigh* Just don't use up your eligibility until after your 21st
b-day, Sendhil, and maybe we can take a raincheck?

: (Believe it or not, this plan is loosely based on how the

: International Physics Olympiad works. 10 hours of tests are spread
: out over a week of fun and games, and people from different countries
: get to know each other really well.)

Wow again....of course, that *is* international, and those people in
Region 16 never really seem to want to go through all the trouble to go
to their Regional tournament, so CBI may have to stick with just National.

: (IPhO 1994 Guide)

What?

Jon A. Schmidt

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Apr 28, 1994, 3:33:17 PM4/28/94

to

Boy of Destiny (jedw...@midway.uchicago.edu) wrote:
: I was surprised that none of the BYU team did make the ballot- at least two

: of their players should have been there, but I bet they were 17 or 18 on the
: list. But I guess BYU's performance was a team effort more than anything
: else. And, IMO, that makes their placement even more special.

Actually, if I counted right when I looked at the final stats, G.W.'s
Matt Kline and James Dinan were 17th and 18th in total points. I think
the B.Y.U. players were right behind them, at 19th and 20th or so.
Did anyone copy down the list so we can find out for sure? If I'm right,
it will be ironic, because I think James and I finished 5th and 6th at
Regionals, again missing out on All-Star consideration. And at last year's
Regionals, I was 5th. G.W. seems to be making a habit out of "close but
not quite" individual performances at ACU-I tournaments! :-)

It just reflects the fact that, like B.Y.U., we were a pretty balanced
team, with no "star" to carry us along. We had to be a team--we won as a
team, and we lost as a team.

Julie K. Stahlhut

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Apr 27, 1994, 2:27:57 PM4/27/94

to

In a previous article, re...@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Sendhil Revuluri) says:
>side games with the opportunity to play for prizes, and leisure rounds
>where the teams are mixed up and you get to know folks from other
>schools. Of course, everyone would journey to a NTN site (which

Funny you should say that, Sendhil. In all seriousness, the two most
fun games I played in Florida were the All-Star game and the side
excursion to Players for NTN with Peter Freeman, Kevin Klowden, John
Edwards, Dave Dixon, and the entire over-21 portion of the WMU contingent.

(Yes, I agree that more all-ages places should have NTN. I'm pretty
annoyed that after poor Sendhil got wedged into the trunk of the van and
Tanya got crunched onto the floor, the bouncers made us send them back!)

I can flame for hours about how it would be great to have mix-and-match
rounds at the ends of tournaments. I really enjoyed the ones at the end
of ACF regionals, especially when Kevin sat in with us and Sendhil sat
in with Illinois B. I had also hoped for a chance to sit in with some
of Whammu's B and C team players. Some of my teammates weren't as up for
that kind of thing as I was -- I can understand that, because most of them
are highly competitive people, while for me competition is secondary to
meeting people with the same interests as mine. But I wish I'd overruled
them more energetically. I've always wondered what it would be like to play
with some hoopy froods and froodettes like Peter, Josh, Damon, Su, Guy, Ted,
and .... well, you name 'em. I'm hoping to make those dreams come true at
Masters in this and future years, and maybe at some invitationals in the
future, since I have every intention of staying on the circuit as a
volunteer.

Whenever team and individual stats are posted during a tournament, you can
bet that I'll spend a few moments reading the team stats -- and then even
longer over the individuals stats to see how my friends -- whether or not
they're also my teammates -- are doing! I'm a big supporter of pickup
teams, coalition teams (even if they can't be officially in the standings)
and humorous, all-trash rounds. Maybe ACU-I isn't about to treat us to
a week of this kind of side diversion :-), but there's no reason why
we players and coaches can't do it ourselves on the invitational circuit.

Grass roots, anyone?

Julie
(who is also Sendhil's MBTI twin!!!!)

Eric Hillemann

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Apr 28, 1994, 6:19:14 PM4/28/94

to

In article <2pmard$r...@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Julie K. Stahlhut,

en...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes:
>they're also my teammates -- are doing! I'm a big supporter of pickup
>teams, coalition teams (even if they can't be officially in the
standings)
>and humorous, all-trash rounds. Maybe ACU-I isn't about to treat us to
>a week of this kind of side diversion :-), but there's no reason why
>we players and coaches can't do it ourselves on the invitational circuit.
>
>Grass roots, anyone?

I'm with you, Julie! (Except for the all-trash rounds; ugh.) All you
current students out there, remember you won't be in school forever (at
least most of you won't) -- so think good thoughts now about establishing
more Masters tournaments, etc. to help you through your old age.

Matt Bruce

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Apr 29, 1994, 1:57:35 AM4/29/94

to

Hearing JE mention the CHi-Ill love-fest (and having heard about it
elsewhere) makes me wish we di more stuff with BU and MIT, since we're so
close. Any of y'all reading this want to help work up some informal
three-way meet next year? :)

Michael Obstgarten

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Apr 29, 1994, 12:26:06 PM4/29/94

to

Either nobody knew or nobody cared, but the answer
to the Howard Stern running mate question is "Stan Dworkin",
whose son attends the Wharton School of Business at UPenn.
Big-time congrats to Rob Faunce of (perhaps coincidentally?)
UPenn for being the only person to correctly come up with
Dworkin's name.

Couple of other assorted comments: First, I sure
would've liked to have gone to the tournaments Doug O'Neal
did that had such low numbers of classical music questions.
I remember a whole lot of 30-20-10 Name the Composer boni
(plus classical music TUs) at virtually every tournament
I've ever been to. The numbers of these definitely need
to be cut down.

As to Matt "The" Bruce's request for a Harvard-BU-MIT
scrimmage, I think that would be quite cool--we actually
did it twice my freshman year (well, once with just us
and Harvard [BU 4, Harvard 3], the other time MIT invited
us both over when they wanted to tune up for their coming NCT win).
Definitely something to look into for the fall.

To continue the thread on getting answers from
apparel (mini-pun intended :), there have been a couple
of tournaments I've attended where games were played
in rooms with the periodic table on the wall--any
questions related to such were discarded. I don't think
similar accomodations should be made regarding clothing--
if something like that happens (which I know I've seen
though I can't remember exactly what, where or who)
it's just luck of the draw of questions, particularly
if it's on a bonus.

Just trying to kill some time on a rainy Friday afternoon
in Boston,

Mike Obstgarten
X-Checker (and designated goon), BU College Bowl
(Intramural season is over--I haven't won an I-M game
in over a year)
"I'll fry all the criminals and fill the potholes with
their crispy remains."
--Howard Stern, solving two of New York's problems simultaneously.

Patrick G. Matthews

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Apr 29, 1994, 4:29:06 PM4/29/94

to

In article <@news.bu.edu> mike...@acs3.bu.edu (Michael Obstgarten) writes:
> Either nobody knew or nobody cared, but the answer
>to the Howard Stern running mate question is "Stan Dworkin",
>whose son attends the Wharton School of Business at UPenn.
>Big-time congrats to Rob Faunce of (perhaps coincidentally?)
>UPenn for being the only person to correctly come up with
>Dworkin's name.

Of course, Matt Dworkin (that is, "Son of Stan") is a member of the Penn
College Bowl Club.

I can't remember how many tourneys he went to (it wasn't many), but he has
three more years ahead of him :)

Pat
--
"Young Patrick" Matthews matt...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
314 South 40th Street Penn Band Flag-Waver Extraordinaire
Philadelphia, PA 19104 Penn College Bowl Foreign Minister
(215) 382-2491 Owner, East Norwalk New Originals

Peter Keshavan

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Apr 30, 1994, 10:25:45 AM4/30/94

to

In article <2prqmi$p...@netnews.upenn.edu> matt...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Patrick G. Matthews) writes:
#In article <@news.bu.edu> mike...@acs3.bu.edu (Michael Obstgarten) writes
#> Either nobody knew or nobody cared, but the answer
#>to the Howard Stern running mate question is "Stan Dworkin",
#>whose son attends the Wharton School of Business at UPenn.

#Of course, Matt Dworkin (that is, "Son of Stan") is a member of the Penn
#College Bowl Club.

#I can't remember how many tourneys he went to (it wasn't many), but he has
#three more years ahead of him :)

I remember playing his team at Princeton this past year.
When we gave our names to the scorekeeper, I heard his and asked
(only half-jokingly) if he was related to Ronald or Andrea.
The answer was negative on both counts. But how could I forget
Stan?

Peter Keshavan

--

tooi sophooi xenon ouden.

-Antisthenes

gree...@news.delphi.com

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May 1, 1994, 3:15:44 PM5/1/94

to

le...@utdallas.edu (Tanya N Cota-Robles) writes:

>If you'd hung around the practice rooms on Friday night, there were some
>chances to mix-n-match with other teams, assuming you were brave enough
>to sit down at a table with semi-strangers. I must admit it was interesting
>playing on a team with Peter and Kevin (and getting a whopping total of one
>question!) and I definitely think we should make more chances to play with
>people from different teams.

Exactly. Although I am "retired", it was enjoyable to sit on a pickup
team and play the current GWU "cannons" (as in, versus fodder). Due
mostly to the fact that intramurals questions from 1983 which I played
were being used, I was able to show that the old man hasn't lost it yet.
After a couple of wins, I sat out on the excuse that the players needed
the practice time, not the coaches!

Gary Greenbaum
Chief Counsel and Acting Coach, GWU

(First message sent with new computer, so fingers crossed.)

Schlitzy

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May 3, 1994, 10:32:40 PM5/3/94

to

>You assume that BYU had the same four people in each game, but they used a
>fifth man often. As Jonathan said, they spread their points rather evenly.
>Therefore, there is no necessary correlation between PPG and total points.

Yes, that was the assumption I made. And if you do make that
assumption, then my analysis was correct.

The other half of a winning TP 80's edition game.