Another 8 track bugaboo...magnetization
DeserTBoB
everyone's aware of the cheesy cart designs, the lousy original
splices, crumbling pressure pads and molten pinch rollers, but these
things, for the most part, can be overcome with due diligence. What
pisses me off now is that fully 30% of the incoming carts I get off of
sleazebay or other sources are noticeably magnetized. Thus, you just
cannot get good fidelity, plus you also have the annoying maintenance
headache of demagnetizing your head and capstan every time you wind up
stuffing a magnetized tape into your deck.
What brought me to this conclusion was that I'd tried to find a decent
copy of CSN&Y's "Deja Vu" on 8 track, mostly for reference purposes,
and so far have not been able to find a decent one. The first one I
got was a car floor denizen, played way too much on a worn out/dirty
deck and its cart full of debris and dirt. I threw that one away
forthwith after a brief inspection and salvaging a couple of parts.
Candidate #2 showed up in very nice shape, but with buffed oxide on
the tape, a sign of high usage and possibly screwed up heads. I did
the usual service to it, but a trip to the Wollensak proved that there
was virtually no top end and overall levels were down a lot. Another
one came in from a garage sale giveaway with a bad cart and label, but
dark oxide tape in good (visual) condition. So, I just blew out the
tape with clean air and transferred it, reel and all, to the nice
looking cart. Similar results, though...low levels, crappy top end.
I know my head azimuth is right on (per a real alignment tape, not a
NudoFraud® ripoff or an Audiotex wannabe), and the pads are
good...what's up?
Obviously, 8 track owners were probably the worst when it came to
proper equipment maintenance, of which a big part is head, guide and
capstan demagnetization. Sure enough, borrowing a trusty Nortronics
magnetometer, both these CSN&Y (and a shitload of other carts I've
got) are definitely magnetized. This doesn't affect my Wollensak's
head, since it is made of alloys resistant to permanent magnetization,
but it can be a problem with my car decks. A magnetometer is useful
in determining if a head, guide or other metal part is magnetized, so
I took the worst sounding cart (in terms of top end and level loss)
and shoved it into the Panasonic car deck for a complete loop, then
stuck the probe in there to check. Sure as hell, that damned tape had
magnetized my head! A demagging of everything ensued, and the
magnetometer showed virtually zero. (It's important to note that
getting an absolute zero in terms of permanent magnetization can be
tough to do, even using the best techniques, due to hysteresis
properties of various ferrous alloys. Best one can hope for is just a
slight residual on the playback head or metal guide or capstan.)
So, finished with demagging this deck, I shoved the same cart back in
for another trip around, pulled it and measured again. Back to the
same flux level it was before! This was the "burnished oxide" tape I
had rejected earlier, so its cart got stripped for parts and the tape
went in the trash, where it belongs. I selected a couple of other of
the worst carts I've got in terms of this kind of loss, and each duly
magnetized the head on that Panasonic, one really badly. That
particular cart, a 3 Dog Night on a later GRT, sounded as if it were
being played underwater...not a whiff of top end anywhere, and the
midrange was noticeably distorted on peaks. Wanting to see what this
would do to a "good" cart, I left the head and everything else
magnetized and made a test cart on the Wollensak, using references at
400 and 10K Hz. Back out to the car for a few minutes' worth of
playback and then back to the Wollensak for measurements, it was
immediately obvious that the magnetization caused by the previous cart
knocked down the 10 KHz tone a whopping 15 dB, and the 400 reference
was down by 4...a partial erasure for sure. A look at the test tape
after exposure to the magnetized deck showed the tape was definitely
magnetized. Demagging the deck, bulk erasing the cart, cutting a new
test tone sequence and playing back showed that there was NO loss this
time. OK, now I know...the odds of getting a magnetized, screwed up 8
track cart that won't damage all your other good carts is about 1 in
3...NOT good odds, unless you demag your deck before each and every
playback...something even I refuse to do.
What caused this? Neglect and/or non-caring by original owners, most
likely due to ignorance of the need for routine demagnetization. I do
remember a fellow saying that 8 tracks lose something in each turn
around, as if it were a natural occurrence. Sure, large amounts of
flexing of tape due to many plays will cause some self-erasure, but
nothing that would cause these kinds of erasure. Ferrous playback
heads will naturally build up polar magnetic strength playing back
anything other than a symmetrical waveform; that is to say, if one
only played back sinusoidal test tones, the heads would theoretically
never need demagging. However, complex musical waveforms are, by
nature, asymmetrical in most places. If a program contained
asymmetrical waveforms that balanced each other out in terms of
polarity, no harm, no foul is done. However, that rarely happens, and
over time, magnetization builds up with each exposure to an
asymmetrical recorded waveform. Over time, this can become
considerable, which causes polar erasure of any tape that comes across
the face of the head, the guides, the capstan...anything ferrous in
the tape path.
The only way to protect against this kind of destruction of your
library is to do two things: 1.) CAREFULLY demagnetize your decks,
and 2.) throw out or bulk erase any carts you have which are obviously
magnetized. Years ago, dB Magazine did a survey on deck maintenance
in various big name studios in the LA area, with some surprising
results. Not only did only a couple of them have any sort of
magnetometer in their tool inventory, but 6 out of 10 techs proved
they didn't know how to properly demagnetize a deck! Most could get
the tape path and gaps nice and clean using the proper 96%
isopropanol, but many would rush doing the demag, and would leave the
heads as magnetized or even worse than when they started. It's most
important, when using an AC demagger, that the probe or gap be moved
slowly, in a circular motion, with gradual movement from one part to
another and away from a deck. Slowness is the key here; withdraw a
demagger too quickly, and you've just magnetized the heads all over
again. Same thing applies to bulk erasure of tape...slowly, in a
circular fashion, with a SLOW withdrawal of the reel, cart or pancake
away from the coil. I've seen amateur really muck up a reel or cart
of tape by not doing this...many just shut the thing off while it's
still in proximity to the tape!
A poorly magnetized tape is easy to hear when played back blank.
You'll hear strange bass "pumping" noises down in the noise floor, and
the tape will seem inordinately "hissy." Detecting a heavily
magnetized prerecorded tape is easy, too...loss of top end and
excessive hiss both tell the tale. What can be done to undo this
damage? Zero...either bulk erase it or throw it out. You don't
really need a purpose-built magnetometer calibrated in gauss,
either...a good quality pocket compass will easily find cases of
heavily magnetized heads, guide and other stuff...IF you can get it
into your machine. RTR decks are easy (generally) for this; cart and
cassette machines require lots of disassembly and "fiddling." Finding
a magnetized tape in this fashion is easy, but beware...the net
magnetic field put out by any music tape will generally show at least
a touch of permanent magnetization, since the recorded waveforms are
mostly asymmetrical, unless there's a sinusoid or other symmetrical
waveform present. However, a heavily magnetized cart will easily
swing the needle right toward it. A test listen will confirm the
damage, if all the highs are gone and there's a big load of hiss with
it.
So what did I do with the CSN&T tape? Bulk erased it and redubbed it
from CD, with some judicious compression added by my old UREI
compressor. Now, it sounds much better than any of the three I got!
Which tapes WEREN'T magnetized? Almost everything in my collection
with "low miles" on it didn't have a problem, and sounds fine,
especially the "unpopular" tapes, like that Reader's Digest
compilation of Harry James that Noodles was calling "junk." Turns
out, that compilation sounded excellent and has many cuts that are
long out of print. The later GRT carts work flawlessly, too, although
they tend to be a bit mechanically noisy, due to using two more guides
inside than most other carts. A quick look at Amazon and EMI web
sites proved that to get most of this material on CD, I'd spend around
$50 minimum...and still not get about 10 of these cuts, including the
live cuts done at various venues in the '60s and '70s. My new rule of
thumb? The more popular the rock tape, the higher the probability
that it's worn out, magnetized, and dumpster food. None of the "still
sealed" carts I've gotten showed any signs of magnetization, although
it's still possible to get a "brand new" tape that's been around a
magnet.
What about "demagnetization" carts and cassettes? A joke, generally.
I've seen two kinds...one that has a cord that plugs into the ciggie
lighter, which powers an oscillator, and other ones that have a
fanciful mechanism inside driven by the capstan that twirls a bar
magnet around. The former sorta works, since there's not really
enough current provided to the coil to do a really good job of
demagnetizing the head, but it will knock down a badly magnetized
head. The other is funny, because, although the alternating polarity
of the bar magnet will knock out residual magnetism, all that goes to
hell when the magnet stops spinning or if the cartridge or cassette is
removed quickly...always the case with cartridges. I've seen these
spinning magnet things make a mess out of a deck just by using it
according to instructions. In either event, neither will do anything
to help a magnetized capstan or leading tape guide. Contact blocks
aren't (usually) ferrous, so no problem there. Best thing? An AC
demagnetizer probe designed for the purpose. Even Rat Shack years ago
sold a pretty good one that'll fit into the opening on a cart machine
and yet give enough mobility to properly demagnetize the necessary
parts in the tape path. I still use an old Robins "Gibson Girl" probe
unit on cart and cassette machines...works great.
From the "did you know?" department: When demagging a three head
deck, do you demag the erase and record heads too? If so, why? If
the bias current to both is symmetrical (always the case for both
erase and record, unless there's trouble in the bias oscillator
circuit), all you need to do to demag both heads is put the machine in
record mode...that's all there is to it. The playback head, however,
needs the full treatment, as do guides and capstan.
Well, there's today's tech post. It's obviously more informative than
"shut the fuck up, Noodles!" I can't wait for that moron to weigh in
on this subject. What am I going to do with the good musical programs
on all my 8 tracks? Why, dub them to CD-Rs, of course! 8 track's
reaching the end of the line with me...too much hassle, too much
maintenance, too many frauds, too shitty a format. 8 tracks, IMNSHO,
deserve that place on the "20 worst ideas of the 20th century" list!
dB
William W Western
> reaching the end of the line with me...too much hassle, too much
> maintenance, too many frauds, too shitty a format. 8 tracks, IMNSHO,
> deserve that place on the "20 worst ideas of the 20th century" list!
leave us at the mercy of this Trippin' character. When you came on the scene
it sounded like you would polish him off in short order but he appears to be
made of sterner stuff than you anticipated. I am also puzzling how this last
post of yours will affect your proposal to turn this forum over to moderated
status, or why you would continue soldiering on in behalf of a newsgroup
dedicated to a format that "deserve that place on the "20 worst ideas of the
20th century" list" anyway.
Also, and I admit to being non-technical, if a cut on an 8 track
sounds bad how will dubbing it to a CD make it sound any better?
WWW
TC8trax
"DeserTBoB" <des...@rglobal.net> wrote in message
news:vevp11dq9kgckv1aq...@4ax.com...
> The more I explore the 8 track medium, the more fault I find. Sure,
> everyone's aware of the cheesy cart designs, the lousy original
> splices,
<snip>
8 tracks, IMNSHO,
> deserve that place on the "20 worst ideas of the 20th century" list!
>
> dB
Jeez Bob...
You're preaching to the wrong flock there... We understand all the drawbacks
of the medium, media and players. We love them in spite of all that and
BECAUSE of all that. Not more than a few years ago, I recall posters being
chased-off of this group for posts not nearly as blasphemous as the one
above. (we love carts and their ugly-duckling status)
I love 8-track tapes because they take me back to the glory of my childhood.
Even then I knew that other media worked and sounded better most of the
time...but the players and tapes were (are) just so f-in' cool!. I do not
fool myself into thinking that an 8-track cartridge is the finest play-back
media ever conceived - I simply like collecting, possessing and occasionally
playing a cart on a cool player for old time's sake. The tapes and players
are truly fun to collect and fix, because of their random availability...
I used to like selling them...and I once sold them by the gross on eBay, but
in the last five-years or so eBay sales of 8-tracks have gone in the toilet
because every garage-saler on eBay thinks they can get rich on their stash
of 8's.
I admire your industrious attack on the technical aspects, but really feel
it's wasted time.
BUT- The biggest waste of time you've perpetuated has been the constant
rapport you've jumped into with and against a certain troll. Anyone with a
brain was able to killfile him a long time ago, and that was that. You've
poked it with a hot stick and made the troll flare-up like a wildfire...and
your constant retorts to the moron have polluted this forum as much or more
than the troll has. As gallant as your effort to tell the truth about it
(the troll) it's still s#!++ing on the hobby and probably always will. Oh
well...not worth my time chasing around Usenet, that's for sure. I think
siccing the FEDs and Post office on him for postal fraud and reporting him
to eBay is all you can do, if it's really worth the time.
A moderated forum would be nice... and very welcome... It would rededicate
this group to the subject at hand...collecting and playing with a bunch of
old tapes and the players we use with them.
TC8trax
I Do Believe. . . 8-Tracks Are COOL! That's it. . . no analysis needed.
DeserTBoB
<wweste...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Bob, I am getting the uneasy feeling you are about to abandon us and
>leave us at the mercy of this Trippin' character. <snip>
It's becoming an attractive option. Life's too short to spend time
dealing with toads like him on a daily basis.
>When you came on the scene
>it sounded like you would polish him off in short order but he appears to be
>made of sterner stuff than you anticipated. <snip>
Paranoid delusionals like Noodles are single minded of purpose...they
never quit. Whether he's off his meds or refuses any treatment, I
have no idea, but I do know he has serious mental problems which do
require treatment. Life's too short to try to treat a mental case
over Usenet, and I'll have none of it. It's quite obvious, by looking
at the record, that Noodles has no moral compass and an infantile
personality disorder, possibly brought on by heavy usage of THC in his
youth. There was a seeming dead ringer to Noodles on Judge Judy's
show just the other day...38 years old, still living with Mom, a
scofflaw with no moral compass, and his mother and sister both
testified to his drug usage. That pretty much describes Noodles to a
"t."
>and I am also puzzling how this last
>post of yours will affect your proposal to turn this forum over to moderated
>status, or why you would continue soldiering on in behalf of a newsgroup
>dedicated to a format that "deserve that place on the "20 worst ideas of the
>20th century" list" anyway. <snip>
Exactly, it's a case of diminishing returns. I had come in here
initially to chastise Noodles for defrauding me, not once, but twice,
and found out he had been defrauding people left and right ever since
he started fooling around with 8 tracks in or around 2002. I've
pretty much satisfied myself as to the format itself, and have tried
in various ways to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I got some
pretty decent results, when taken in the context of the times, but a
good cassette deck is always better overall, and a CD player blows
away both tape formats. Note how Noodles, when confronted with facts
and data from measurements, scoffs at reality and tries to emote his
own psychotic view on things technical. He also scans my messages and
uses bits and pieces of knowledge that fit his purposes when he posts
about 8 tracks orlaunches yet another scam auction. He's a thief,
plain and simple. Why should I continue to wisen up a chump?
> Also, and I admit to being non-technical, if a cut on an 8 track
>sounds bad how will dubbing it to a CD make it sound any better? <snip>
Let's review, shall we? I typed:
"What am I going to do with the good musical programs
on all my 8 tracks? Why, dub them to CD-Rs, of course! 8 track's
reaching the end of the line with me...too much hassle, too much
maintenance, too many frauds, too shitty a format"
Note the word "good" in the first sentence. About 60% of the carts
I've collected are worth hearing, the other 40% being hopelessly
magnetized, crinkled, or both. I've already started burning a number
of my top condition carts to CD-ROM, and what I wind up with is a
CD-ROM that sounds like an 8 track...the CD technology is transparent.
Not all that good, really, but for a buck for the cart and some
pennies for the CD-ROM, it's a "cost effective" way to get lots of
music cheap and legally. I've also decided to sell one of my 8 track
equipped vehicles, and its replacement will have CD/cassette only, so
having tons of carts to drag around in Lebo cases doesn't make a
helluva lot of sense to me.
There's the "retro" factor to 8 track collecting, which is about its
only saving grace, but that's hardly getting to be "the next big
thing" in retro crazes. With people like Noodles into 8 tracks, if
there is any mass popularity of 8 tracks forthcoming, it'll die
quickly as people get scammed and screwed by him and his ilk. Also,
let's face it...most people aren't technically competent enough to
keep 8 track running very well for any length of time...they goof with
it for awhile, then, after several jams and tubby sounding tunes, they
chuck the format for other interests. My background with analog tape
makes me able to keep the format running for me as long as I want to,
but the question is, how long do I want to keep opening up carts,
cleaning, lubing and fixing them, while not having enough time to
actually just listen to the music they contain? It's simply not worth
my time, seeings how I have other more pressing issues to deal with on
a day to day basis. I get my analog tape fix now by rebuilding my
Ampexes, of which one is complete and sounding as new or better. Now,
if Quantegy would start making tape again, I'd be in business!
As to the moderation thing, the ball's in Malcolm's court. I did a
lot of digging as to how to get it going, but a crew of moderators
with modbots has to be put in place, and I haven't seen anything
happen to that end as of yet. This isn't my newsgroup, it's his. If
he wants to make it work, he's going to have to get off his duff and
do some of the work. Otherwise, it'll just continue to decline, and
Noodles will continue to drive people off. I think I did more than my
share of getting the moderation conversion teed up; now it's up to him
to take charge, ban Noodles for life, and get the moderator crew up
and running. Once Noodles is gone, of course, I'm pretty sure that
the group will pick back up again, but the owner of the group has to
do the work to get it going again. Failing that, I think this group
will be abolished soon due to lack of interest.
dB
TC8trax
<snip>
> 8 track's reaching the end of the line with me...too much hassle, too much
> maintenance, too many frauds, too shitty a format. 8 tracks, IMNSHO,
> deserve that place on the "20 worst ideas of the 20th century" list!
>
> dB
Jeez Bob...
DeserTBoB
>You're preaching to the wrong flock there... <snip>
Not really "preaching"...just stating the facts.
>We understand all the drawbacks
>of the medium, media and players. We love them in spite of all that and
>BECAUSE of all that. Not more than a few years ago, I recall posters being
>chased-off of this group for posts not nearly as blasphemous as the one
>above. (we love carts and their ugly-duckling status) <snip>
This goes to my point that there's a cachet of collectability based on
issues other than technical merit, which seems to be the case.
>I love 8-track tapes because they take me back to the glory of my childhood.
>Even then I knew that other media worked and sounded better most of the
>time...but the players and tapes were (are) just so f-in' cool!. I do not
>fool myself into thinking that an 8-track cartridge is the finest play-back
>media ever conceived <snip>
That's Noodles' premise, and one I'm sick of seeing, since he espouses
that faulty belief to separate clueless people from their dollars. If
one takes 8 track at face value for being a cheesy piece of shit from
the '60s, all is well. Once you start expecting any modicum of
performance from them, things start falling apart rapidly.
>I simply like collecting, possessing and occasionally
>playing a cart on a cool player for old time's sake. The tapes and players
>are truly fun to collect and fix, because of their random availability... <snip>
Well, that's all changed, for better or worse, due to ebay providing
"what you want when you want it." Prior to ebay and the extension of
Internet access to toads like Charlie Nudo, there was a definite
underground subculture attached to 8 track collecting, as Russ' movie
clearly depicts. Ebay has pretty much wiped that out, and now 8
tracks are as available as LPs, cassettes, or any other media, as are
the players/recorders. There's no rarity factor with 8 track; people
are more than willing to either give this stuff away or toss it in the
dumpster. Also, I believe there was an illusion of rarity with the 8
track subculture for a long time; the Internet proved that not to be
the case, and collectability and prices dropped like a rock. For me,
at least, the "fun factor" for 8 track has worn thin, as lots of time
is lost to labor in opening, servicing and repairing carts just to get
them to play...and even after that, there's about a 40% chance the
cart's screwed up due to crinkled tape or magnetization or both.
Thus, 8 track is a "toy"...not a reliable "music medium."
>I used to like selling them...and I once sold them by the gross on eBay, but
>in the last five-years or so eBay sales of 8-tracks have gone in the toilet
>because every garage-saler on eBay thinks they can get rich on their stash
>of 8's. <snip>
Exactly...Charlie Nudo and his like minded fucktards, having no other
source of income in a declining America, turn to ebay as a means to
scam people out of their money. I'm sure if someone told Noodles that
"pet rocks are cool again," he'd start making frauds of those,
too...just to make a buck.
>I admire your industrious attack on the technical aspects, but really feel
>it's wasted time. <snip>
Not really. I felt there needed to be some quantization of what the
format could do, if for no other reason, to dispel the notion that 8
track WAS a viable medium. Surely, I do have some carts that do sound
pretty good...emphasis on "pretty"...and a lot of others that barely
compete with AM radio, and some that are unusable due to
aforementioned problems. No one else did it, but I did. Sure, I
could go into aspects of every deck and every tape ever made, but it
truly would be a waste of time, money and effort. I've covered the
bases well enough to give a technical baseline of the medium, what it
can do, what it can't, and what to expect in terms of problems. I'm
really not interested in doing much more other than maybe fool around
with recording on the Wollensaks for fun and experimentation, as well
as providing food for my one remaining car deck, and I will probably
give away all the carts and recorders sometime in the near future.
Compare that with the evil pandering of crap done by Noodles and his
ilk on ebay...my goals seem altruistic in comparison.
>
>BUT- The biggest waste of time you've perpetuated has been the constant
>rapport you've jumped into with and against a certain troll. Anyone with a
>brain was able to killfile him a long time ago, and that was that. You've
>poked it with a hot stick and made the troll flare-up like a wildfire...and
>your constant retorts to the moron have polluted this forum as much or more
>than the troll has. As gallant as your effort to tell the truth about it
>(the troll) it's still s#!++ing on the hobby and probably always will. <snip>
You are correct...Noodles DOES "shit on the hobby." Don't blame me
for helping to expose a fraudster and con man...it's the right thing
to do. Rational people see Noodles, and figure that all 8 track
people must be flakes and morons, and the field of interest dies.
It's up to those who really like this format for what it is to get rid
of this troll. I did more than my part; if Malcolm is serious about
getting rid of him, let him do so. Otherwise, I'm out.
>Oh
>well...not worth my time chasing around Usenet, that's for sure. I think
>siccing the FEDs and Post office on him for postal fraud and reporting him
>to eBay is all you can do, if it's really worth the time. <snip>
It's not, but it woke him up to the fact that people are on to his
scams. His sales have been slipping, so he declared a "vacation" from
ebay, trying to wait me out. Then, when the scams started again, I
chased him all over the place, further impinging upon his income. You
can tell that his income has been truncated, as the ripoffs are
getting bolder pricewise...$125 for some piece of shit Jap Fisher he
found at a garage sale or the Salvation Army is larceny, plain and
simple, but a larceny that's aided and abetted by a clueless ebay
population. Oh well, mass stupidity cannot be cured by me or anyone
else; a look at the '04 election proves that. Caveat emptor!
>
>A moderated forum would be nice... and very welcome... It would rededicate
>this group to the subject at hand...collecting and playing with a bunch of
>old tapes and the players we use with them. <snip>
GOOD! Send a note to Malcolm, tell him to either get his ass in gear
and set up the moderators, or close the newsgroup. The way it is is
untenable.
>I Do Believe. . . 8-Tracks Are COOL! That's it. . . no analysis needed. <snip>
How does one define "cool?" If you're definition would include a
reference to original Lava Lamps being cool, so much the better. I
still have one from 1968, and there's an interesting story behind
those things, too! That oddly shaped bottle started out life as a
"decorator decanter" for Listerine products. The idea flopped in the
marketplace, and Warner-Lambert (now part of Pfizer) wound up with
literally tons tall, volumetrically inefficient glass containers.
Meanwhile, over at a Chicago novelty concern called Lava Company, some
guys got the bottles for next to nothing, filled the surplus bottles
with the emulsified goo pioneered by Englishman Craven Walker, stuck
them in a base with an incandescent lamp, and the Lava Lamp was born,
a craze that defined the '60s from 1963 onward. I must admit, that a
stack of 8 track cartridges placed next to a Lava Lamp makes for a
truly "period" visual effect! You may remember many cheesy imported
pendulum clocks sold in the late '70s and into the '80s bearing the
"Lava" brand. That was the Lava Lamp firm again, now owned by a
shrinking Simplex Time Corporation and called "Lava-Simplex."
Simplex, makers of centralized clock systems since the '40s, had a
drastically shrinking market for industrial sales due to the
introduction of cheap, fairly accurate battery clocks in the '70s, and
was looking for alternatives for income. They used Lava to market
their cheap Korean import clocks to consumers.
In that context, 8 track is truly a valid piece of '60s
memorabilia...complete with "moon goon" ceiling lamps, sideburns,
Nehru jackets, 5000 pound cars spewing particulate tetraethyl lead and
phony gold medallions. However, if you just want to get to the music
contained within, it's a royal pain in the ass, although an
attractively priced one. Not surprisingly, cassettes outprice 8
tracks routinely on ebay for sought after releases. GEMM doesn't even
mess with 8 track listings, but they do list cassettes...thousands of
them. If I really wanted to explore "packaged" analog tape to its
farthest development, I'd get into Elcaset from Sony. Now THERE'S an
arcane format, and probably the best ever attempt to get RTR fidelity
from a cartridge of any sort.
Unforunately, Sony screwed up the marketing (a Sony hallmark) and it
completely bombed in the US, with some sales in Japan and Europe. By
this time, consumers were enamored by the Philips AudioCassette for
its reliability (which 8 track totally lacked), small portable size,
and reasonable fidelity, which improved markedly after about 1975.
Elcaset was a "home" format, too large for car players. Most people
into hi-fi in those days who were serious about good tape sound opted
instead for a full blown RTR, of which there were many good offerings
in the '70s at a comparable price to Sony's high priced Elcaset. It
disappeared within 6 months on the US market, and I wisely avoided it.
I did use consumer Beta, probably longer than anyone else I know,
simply because it outperformed JVC's inferior VHS format, and the 1984
introduction of "Beta Hi-Fi" FM audio gave another very good audio
recording format. As an experiment, I even mastered a guy's studio
work on a Sony SL-5200, and it worked out great, with an even lower
noise floor than dbx encoded audio tape! Later improvements to VHS,
like VHS-HQ and S-VHS, as well as the 1986 introduction of "VHS Hi-Fi"
audio, made the performance advantage moot, but I still didn't convert
to VHS until the mid-90s. So, if 8 track is "'70s coolness," what of
Beta? I still have a working Sony Beta deck with fresh heads.
That'll go to ebay soon (for large bucks, I've found out), as I've
just about finished transcribing all my old Beta movies and Betacam
footage over to DVD-R.
Enough of this! I have to get out to the shop and finish that Ampex
transport!
dB
William W Western
effort into your posts. The "banter" between you and Trippin' has often been
amusing (from both perspectives) as well. Of course, since you are in the
thick of it the amusement factor is probably on the thin side for you.
I have not burned a lot of stuff to CD from other formats but am
generally more pleased with 8 track transfers than LP. Even what looks like
pristine vinyl has a fair amount of popping and sputtering. I use DePopper
but (and I may not be fully using it properly) still prefer the lack of
surface noise found on the 8 track.
WWW
trippingtoo8track
The reason you are having such lousy results from your tapes, is you
have a lousy deck. I gave up on Wollensak long time ago (I've had 3 of
them here), when a quick comparison to Telex Viking, Akai, Sony, JVC,
Zenith, Pioneer, showed all of the latter decks to be superior to the
Wollensak. Even an old Lear Jet, Muntz, or Automatic Radio would
improve over a Wollensak. Hell, I just serviced a Craig AM/FM 8-track
today with AC motor, that would make mincemeat of any Wolly in
reliability and stable operation. So there, I just weighed in- and in
ernest- not flaming you. You are crippling yourself with that Wolly
deck, and listening to 8-tracks with one hand tied behind your back in
a sense- esp. since a Wolly has tons of wow/flutter due to an
engineering design oversight with the speed regulator on the DC motor.
Even the Wolly 8050 with AC motor can't hold a candle to an Akai
80-81-series deck.
Your tech posts are interesting. Where you go astray is lacing them
with political rants and diatribe, and personal attacks. And there's
no way I (or anyone else) will stand still and let you attack auctions
and reputations without putting up a vehement defense. You have to
give respect, to get respect- and since you came onto this NG in Sept.
you have done nothing but attack. What do you expect ??
The self-destructive crusade you have gone on here since September
2004, is definitely not worth the damage you did to your own reputation
on Usenet- all over an alignment tape you paid $40 for, and got all
your money back with no problems. What are you thinking, man ?? How
is that worth it ?? You lost no money, then destroyed your own rep.
If you continued to post constructively like above, you could easily be
amongst the top 10 contributors here of all time. The problem is, your
posts quickly degenerate to the flame war level- which then disrupts
the entire NG- and also undermines your own reputation and credibility.
I believe you may have been hoodwinked into fighting Dan Gibson's
8-track war for him, while he sits on the sidelines and watches. If so,
stop being his toadie. It's not worth it, as any "war" takes
tremendous effort and cost to fight- flame wars included. You get the
shit kicked out of you, while he just keeps selling tapes and pads and
8-track supplies.
Either that, or you took that last presidential election WAY too
serious...
You are right on the dub over aspect- it is possible to trump the
recording quality of some factory authorized 8-tracks by dubbing them
over from a vinyl record ! I've been recording via 8-track since circa
1976. On the other hand, some factory 8-tracks have stellar sound
quality that will simply destroy the comparable CD, SACD or DVD-audio
copy- due to the newer ones being re-mixed and screwed with during the
process.
But I've found that dubbing from CD to 8-track, ends up being tinny and
thin sounding just like the CD- and inferior to anything but the worst
worn out original 8-track, or bootleg 8-track. An original pristine
cart will still sound better than a CD, I back to backed them with
headphones and that is obvious.
Reel to reel tapes degrade over time, heck so do studio master tapes.
So that is a characteristic of analog tape, not a deficiency of the
8-track format. If you are giving up on 8-tracks after trying them
again for 6 months- you never were really into them to begin
with...just my gut feeling intuition.
FWIW,
Trippin'
ps- the more you attack me, the more lumps and black eyes you give
yourself- I read all your replies to this thread- anyone coming into
this NG would see, you are sounding like a broken record already. Give
it a rest and things will definitely improve for you. If you're done
with the format, then move on to another hobby or pursuit. This NG was
here long before you or I, and it will be here long after we both stop
posting here. No one person makes the 8-track hobby.
TC8trax
I do mean this in as friendly way as possible...but you are definitely a bag
o' hot air...
More power to ya...
Hope you can accept 8-tracks for what they are and what group members have
always accepted them to be...
Cool Tapes...Cool Toys . . . Cheap Toys! nothing more, nothing less...
Audiophiles please shop elsewhere...
TC8trax
trippingtoo8track
Get a Telex Viking or carousel deck, and input it into a good tube amp-
8-tracks are more "audiophile" than any digital format going. There's
just the maintenance issue to deal with.
DeserTBoB
<wweste...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Good points, Bob. You are to be congratulated for putting thought and
>effort into your posts. The "banter" between you and Trippin' has often been
>amusing (from both perspectives) as well. Of course, since you are in the
>thick of it the amusement factor is probably on the thin side for you. <snip>
I just want him gone. After that, this group will improve immensely.
> I have not burned a lot of stuff to CD from other formats but am
>generally more pleased with 8 track transfers than LP. Even what looks like
>pristine vinyl has a fair amount of popping and sputtering. I use DePopper
>but (and I may not be fully using it properly) still prefer the lack of
>surface noise found on the 8 track. <snip>
There's no substitute for clean, unmarred vinyl! The impulse noise
associated with mishandled or badly pressed LPs is more irritating to
some than the steady state presence of tape hiss, to be certain.
Years ago, I started using a prototype "click and pop" reduced from
SAE (analog, mind you) that worked pretty well for really bad,
ocassional pops caused by a large scratch, and it still works better
than "DePop" or other digital algorithms for that. However, overall
worn out LPs are impossible to deal with using that scheme...there's
simply too much for the circuitry to deal with to prevent it from
garbling the program material.
Although there are no "clicks and pops" on 8 track, there is the issue
of truncated dynamic range and high noise floor, so it's somewhat of a
trade off. A good, clean, well pressed disk will always sound better
than 8 track, but getting such an example may not be easy, and if you
can get one, it'll surely be comparitively expensive. Also, to get
good sound from a disc, expensive playback equipment is a must; the
usual cheapie turntable with a ceramic cartridge just isn't going to
do it, and most "better" turntables aren't really that good,
especially when using their factory supplied tone arms. 8 track
offers an easy, cheap alternative that's already "custom compressed"
for listening in the car, so I generally just dub direct from an 8
track deck to the inputs to the sound card. The resulting .wav file
is, if you use the 44 KHz sampling rate, a transparent copy of the 8
track cut.
dB
DeserTBoB
<tripping...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Get a Telex Viking or carousel deck, and input it into a good tube amp-
>8-tracks are more "audiophile" than any digital format going. <snip>
What a crock of shit! Yeah...a Telex "merry-go-round" and the crappy
tube amp ripped out of a Magnavox console..."better than digital!"
Shut the fuck up, Noodles.
DeserTBoB
wrote:
>Bob-
>
>I do mean this in as friendly way as possible...but you are definitely a bag
>o' hot air... <snip>
LOL!
>Cool Tapes...Cool Toys . . . Cheap Toys! nothing more, nothing less...
>Audiophiles please shop elsewhere... <snip>
Well, of course. But, the fact remains, I got some metrics on 8 track
performance that were virtually non-existant before. Knowledge is
power, and if you can use the frailties of a format to an advantage,
so much the better. The natural compression afforded by those shitty,
skinny little tracks on 8 track actually works as an advantage for 8
track in the car...it's like having a UREI compressor without the
expense!
dB
trippingtoo8track
Wrong They're Right, that's in the update at the end of the tape I made
for you- which you would not even HAVE as it was not available new.
Did you go out and buy it on modern DVD from Russ, for $15, being you
made such a fuss over my VHS dub ??
No, you didn't. You complained, then pocketed a $5 savings over buying
the authorized copy. That is hypocritical on your part.
Stop talking in "academese", post like a normal person and a man- not
college professor. We can tell you're bluffing.
trippingtoo8track
investigate and find no wrongdoing...if they waste expensive field time
over a non-issue- they aren't going to like it very much.
they're gonna come looking...for YOU. For giving them false leads.
Since when is selling on ebay "fraud" ?? There's like what, millions
of members on there now ?? Get a life. You are confusing your emotions
with fact, and your sore ego over losing a flame war against me has
clouded your judgement. Just cuz you "lose" all the time in these net
wars, doesn't mean I'm wrong.
It means your'e wrong.
Allow me to digress on the D-Bob issue:
Notice how D-Bob uses the El Cassette quote (directly taken from the
beginning of the VHS So Wrong movie) and also the quotes on Ebay
ruining the 8-track hobby (again, ditto lifted from the movie trailer
update, a quote directly from the woman writer/author) Now take that
info, add to it he's using the worst deck Wannabesak ever made with a
DC motor- it all comes together to form a picture- he's way behind the
learning curve with 8-tracks actually...and he's posing and constantly
getting his ass kicked here cuz of it. The guy basically is not very
bright.
He thought Aerosmith Live Bootleg, was a real bootleg.
He had no clue about Ebay offering delayed auction time scheduling- and
went around parading my auction had been pulled- when in truth it had
not even started yet.
He saw a pic of Dan Gibson, and actually thought it was me, and said to
morph it with a penis on the face. When he was told that was not me,
he changed his tune and said he knew that.
What we are seeing with D-Bob, is what is known as a "compensatory
facade", which he tries to hide by constantly attacking me- I am a
threat to him because I can see through his veil and know the truth
about him. I am constantly exposing his mistakes and misconceptions.
It's not wrong to be an 8-track newbie- it's wrong to be a newbie, and
act like a veteran- D-Bob is the typical 8-track neophyte who knows
shit about 8-tracks and is on a very steep learning curve- and lacks
the money and good sense to buy a really good deck. Or perhaps he has
a pre-conceived notion that 8-tracks just CAN'T sound good- so he's too
cheap to invest in a good deck. That's why the high prices that ebay
decks bring $200-400 each, incenses him so much. It goes against his
nature and thinking about 8-tracks.
Bob in reality, hates 8-tracks- you can tell by his posts when his true
feelings come out about them. The only reason he has to live now- is
to log onto Usenet and come after me. Otherwise, he'd most likely be
sitting watching re-runs of old TV shows on cable, until he shriveled
up and died.
Jonny the 8-Tracker!
know don't even know why you'd use 'em. Heck, a few younger kids in my
school don't even seem to know what a cassette is; older ones are all
on CDs: "Got a new CD? Burn it for me! Oh, wait, I already downloaded
it off KaZaA." I just enjoy 'em and say, "So the sound stinks. It's
cheap, it's amusing, and it's got more character than a CD any day."
Don't sweat the stuff unless you're called to restore a decades-old,
filthy cart for a local rich eccentric. (Not very likely.)
I think that I still try to improve the listening quality of the tapes,
though. Tape hiss is annoying, so I adjust treble and bass as much as I
can. Records: Pops and cracks annoy me, too, but I learn to live with
it. Tapes are good, of course. And I continue to imprison what may be
secret "Go to CD and get true quality!" urges for the sake of my
obsession for old tech. =D
DeserTBoB
<tripping...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Bob,
>
>The reason you are having such lousy results from your tapes, is you
>have a lousy deck. <snip>
Fuckwad...the TAPES are MAGNETIZED. Do you READ anything, or just
scan the first line and then start crapping in your pants? Can you
comprehend more than a simple sentence at a time? Can you entertain
anything more complex than a light bulb or a pocket compass in your
diminished brain? Again, you just do this to irritate me and others,
and have no basis in fact. You just blather on with your 7th grade
stoner mentality, saying stupid things, making yourself look like a
complete moron.
>I gave up on Wollensak long time ago (I've had 3 of
>them here), when a quick comparison to Telex Viking, Akai, Sony, JVC,
>Zenith, Pioneer, showed all of the latter decks to be superior to the
>Wollensak. <snip>
That's probably because 1.) the front panel confused you too much, 2.)
you have no concept of how DC tachyservo circuits work, 3.) don't
possess the skills necessary to make complex mechanisms work properly,
and on and on and on.
>Even an old Lear Jet <snip>
Junk.
>Muntz <snip>
More junk.
>or Automatic Radio <snip>
Better junk.
>would
>improve over a Wollensak. <snip>
Again...do you READ anything? Do you even attempt to understand
anything, if you DO read? Do you have any idea what those
specifications I laid out earlier on the Wollensak decks I have mean?
Do you have ANY clue as to anything electronic? To a total dunce,
yes, a Wollensak would be a problem, since the dunce wouldn't have a
clue as to what would be wrong with it...and there are plenty of
things that could be wrong with any 29 year old Japanese consumer
electronics machine. This isn't to say that these things are the apex
of 8 tracks...Superscope gets that award in my book...but, when things
work right, they're one helluva lot better than anything put out by
Rat Shack or other low-end crap I've seen you promote.
While we're on the subject, do you even have a fucking clue as to
where those Telex/Viking merry-go-round jokes even came from? Telex
has been a supplier to the avaiation industry since after WW II, and
is most famous for their headsets and pacsets. The Telex "changer"
was designed (at the beckoning of none other than a money hungry
William Lear trolling for license fees, it turns out) by Telex to
provide a high capacity music program storage/playback system for the
707 and the DC-8 on long flights. Back then, CAB regulation provided
enough profit for all carriers to provide little "perks" for their
passengers, and this was one of them. Remember settling back in a
seat on a 707 or 720 back in those days and hearing that tinny,
fluttery, hissy program come through those acoustic headphones? Guess
what was providing it...a Telex cart changer, stuffed with carts
provided by various programming services to most of the major
airlines. It didn't last long, due to high unreliability and
maintenance and poor performance. A larger ½" cartridge, not seen
much today, was developed to replace the 8 track cartridge idea, and
was replaced the Telex system. In fact, the ½" cart format worked so
damned well, it was marketed quite successfully to dental offices,
with programs piped to each work station, which would have an
"on-the-ear" headphone set and a selector button. The patient would
step through 8 different selections of program material, which were
all played simultaneously through two staggered 8 track heads using
the same .62 mm track width at Lear's system, the switching being done
at the outputs to each station. I know this system well, as my
dentist, after 20 years, is still using that service and system, and
is still working...fairly well, anyway. In the planes, the machine
pinch roller elminated most of the failures of the idiotic cartridge
captive pinch rollers in 8 tracks, and this system was used on United,
TWA, Continental and probably others until conversion to digital. I
know Delta had it also, at least on their L-1011s, because my Lockheed
buddy used to install them on the planes at the Palmdale plant. I
know the 707s and 720s that Delta inherited from their hostile
takeover of Western Airlines in the '80s had them too.
>Hell, I just serviced a Craig AM/FM 8-track
>today with AC motor, that would make mincemeat of any Wolly in
>reliability and stable operation. <snip>
Yeah...right...complete with telephonic frequency response, cranky and
noisy early silicon circuitry and "made for best profit" design. Give
me a fucking break.
>So there, I just weighed in- and in
>ernest- not flaming you. <snip>
Horse shit. This is one of your many "passive/agressive" taunts.
Anyone who looks at the record going back to 2002 will see you've done
this very same thing to Dan Gibson, John Winnard, and
others...pretending to be lucid while really just teeing yourself up
for another go-'round of your stupid, uneducated blather and
hyperbole, all tailored to make everyone else look bad, and you good.
Ain't workin' anymore, Noodles. You met your match with me.
>You are crippling yourself with that Wolly
>deck, and listening to 8-tracks with one hand tied behind your back in
>a sense- esp. since a Wolly has tons of wow/flutter due to an
>engineering design oversight with the speed regulator on the DC motor. <snip>
Really! Then how is it that, after a good overhaul, I got results of
.05% weighted wow/flutter using an Ampex TU-40 bridge and a custom MRL
alignment cartridge (not the frauds you sell to unknowing victims on
ebay...this is the real deal.) 3M spec'd out this machine at .1%
weighted. Running the bridge unweighted, I got .12% total deviation,
almost the same as a new Ampex 351 (upon which MOST music of all kinds
from the late '50s onward was mastered) running at 15 IPS! The ONLY
time I wind up with objectionable wow/flutter when listening to any 8
track cart is when there is an obvious CARTRIDGE MALFUNCTION, of which
there are many that can happen at any given time on these silly
things. To test that, I did indeed try offending carts out on an AC
motored deck...SAME EXACT thing. Somebody told you awhile back that
they liked AC motors better, and you went along with it. In fact,
some people in this "hobby" are so clueless, I saw one idiot actually
quote you in one of their ebay sales. Talk about hitching ones wagon
to a falling star!
>Even the Wolly 8050 with AC motor can't hold a candle to an Akai
>80-81-series deck. <snip>
Used an 81...was not impressed at all. In fact, the Wollensak 8075
AND 8056 BOTH beat the Akai 81 on frequency response. I learned many
years ago that Akais are a pain in the ass to work on, and are
somewhat unreliable as well. Plus, with a synchronous motor, you have
the disadvantage of no speed control at all. Too someone like me with
perfect pitch, this is a big bummer, and of course, the tempo will be
considerably off with even small amounts of error, especially at 3¾
IPS. A similar situation existed back in the early '50s with Ampex
300s, due to their indirect rubber wheel drive...there was no way,
short of replacing the expensive drive and driven wheels and bearings
to correct speed inaccuracies, and even then, you wound up settling
for whatever you got when the drive was overhauled, unless you had a
60 Hz oscillator/amplifier (which almost all mastering studios had
with those monsters.) That's why studios that still have 300s and
MR-70s, including one of the best transcription studios in the
country, chucked their AC drive altogether and went to DC servo drive.
Granted, the system used on later Ampexes, MCIs and Scullys was FAR
more complex and reliable than something like you'd find on a consumer
cassette or 8 track machine, but the theory of operation is basically
the same...shaft slows down, motor gets more current; shaft
overspeeds, motor gets less, and so on. If DC servo design is so bad,
as you claim, how the hell do I get such low results using a GOOD
cartridge? Simple...you don't know what the fuck you're talking
about...as usual.
>Your tech posts are interesting. Where you go astray is lacing them
>with political rants and diatribe, and personal attacks. <snip>
More projection. YOU are the one who started all that. I challenge
anyone reading this to check the record in the archives. You might
think you can scam people with your projection fantasies, but the
problem you have there is that the record, held by your precious "goo
goo groopz," proves you wrong.
> And there's
>no way I (or anyone else) will stand still and let you attack auctions
>and reputations without putting up a vehement defense. <snip>
There's no defense against fraud. Fraud is a crime. You are guilty
of petty fraud on several occasions, TWICE with me. A "refund"
doesn't eviscerate the crime...you are still guilty of a
fraud...PERIOD.
>You have to
>give respect, to get respect- <snip>
LMAO! The motto of that bunch of low lifes of the biker world, the
fucking Vagos. Figures you'd sidle up with a bunch of zilches like
them.
>...and since you came onto this NG in Sept.
>you have done nothing but attack. What do you expect ?? <snip>
I didn't "attack"...I alerted this NG to two documented frauds you
committed against me, and started tracking down other frauds you were
perpetrating on ebay. Funny, since I started doing that in earnest, I
notice no more of your infamous "quad frauds" popping up on ebay
anymore, either. The same goes for your attempted mp3 scams you were
going to launch. Seems like the threat of a call to the RIAA
prosecution office nipped THAT NudoFraud in the bud, didn't it?
>
>The self-destructive crusade you have gone on here since September
>2004, is definitely not worth the damage you did to your own reputation
>on Usenet- all over an alignment tape you paid $40 for, and got all
>your money back with no problems. <snip>
You are guilty of fraud, and are guilty of fraud each and every time
you sell one of those pieces of shit on ebay to an unsuspecting buyer,
whether or not they're even aware that the item IS a fraud. I know
the law, and know how a prosecution in such a case would come down.
You are guilty of several misdemeanors. End of story.
As for "self-destructive," that's just more projection on your part,
Noodles. You have a WORLD WIDE reputation as a con artist and a nut
case. Ask anyone...ask for public comment in here. You are most
likely a paranoid delusional either off his meds or going on without
proper diagnosis and treatment.
>What are you thinking, man ?? How
>is that worth it ?? You lost no money, then destroyed your own rep. <snip>
My "rep" is a sterling as ever. You're the one with the "rep"
problem...fraud boy.
>If you continued to post constructively like above, you could easily be
>amongst the top 10 contributors here of all time. The problem is, your
>posts quickly degenerate to the flame war level- which then disrupts
>the entire NG- <snip>
Oh, GIVE ME A BREAK! Ask Dan Gibson...ask John Winnard...ask
Riviera...ask RUSS! ASK ANYONE! YOU ARE THE CAUSE OF ALL THE
PROBLEMS! You go away, PROBLEM SOLVED...as you'll soon find out when
you find you cannot post here anymore...ever.
>and also undermines your own reputation and credibility. <snip>
My credibilty rests on what I've posted and stands up to any scrutiny
to anyone with even an inkling of professional magnetic tape
experience.
> I believe you may have been hoodwinked into fighting Dan Gibson's
>8-track war for him, while he sits on the sidelines and watches. If so,
>stop being his toadie. <snip>
Gibson and I communicate once in awhile...and, oddly enough, the
subject isn't always about YOU, other than ways we can eliminate you
from the NG. The Yahoo 8 track group already did that, now it's our
turn. Then what're you going to do, Noodles? Keep spamming NGs
across Usenet with your scams and spams, with me in close rearward
proximity warning everyone off?
>It's not worth it, as any "war" takes
>tremendous effort and cost to fight- flame wars included. <snip>
Not for me. I'm good at it.
>You get the
>shit kicked out of you, while he just keeps selling tapes and pads and
>8-track supplies. <snip>
Frauds to unsuspecting lemmings. One by one, I'll clip your sales off
until you finally give up when you realize you have to take that job
at Mickey Dee's to cover your monthly nut.
>Either that, or you took that last presidential election WAY too
>serious... <snip>
No, YOU did that. Go read the posts. Anyone...go read the posts,
paying special attention to the dates and time. He's projecting his
own delusions upon me again.
>You are right on the dub over aspect- it is possible to trump the
>recording quality of some factory authorized 8-tracks by dubbing them
>over from a vinyl record ! I've been recording via 8-track since circa
>1976. <snip>
Probably another delusionary lie. The record clearly shows you didn't
know shit from shinola about 8 track anything until around 2002, when
you (unfortunately) got Internet access and started harassing this NG.
It's painfully obvious from those early posts you didn't have a CLUE
as to what you were talking about, and gleaned knowledge from other
posters' output, claiming it as your own. You even picked the brain
of that Mechanicky (or whomever) fellow to try to bolster your shabby
credibility.
>On the other hand, some factory 8-tracks have stellar sound
>quality that will simply destroy the comparable CD, SACD or DVD-audio
>copy- due to the newer ones being re-mixed and screwed with during the
>process. <snip>
Many "remasters" are done by a new crop of people in the recording
industry who had no experience in analog and have no "ears" to speak
of. Just because some pot smoking moron in a control room has NO clue
as to how to do a remix/remaster, don't blame the medium its
on...blame the label and especially blame those snotnoses now calling
themselves "engineers" in that industry. Many are a joke, and many
old timers in that business will tell you so...in spades. However,
that doesn't make CD-A or SA-CD (which you didn't even KNOW about
until I posted about it awhile back) a "worse" format. 8 track's the
inferior format, sonically. Maybe a good 8 track cart DOES have a
better mixdown, and that makes the difference between that and the
"remaster" crap we hear now. But blaming the medium...that's about as
stupid as saying George fucking W. Bush is a "great president."
>But I've found that dubbing from CD to 8-track, ends up being tinny and
>thin sounding just like the CD- and inferior to anything but the worst
>worn out original 8-track, or bootleg 8-track. <snip>
Idiot...the TOP end goes first on a "worn out" 8 track, not the
bottom.
>An original pristine
>cart will still sound better than a CD, I back to backed them with
>headphones and that is obvious. <snip>
Yeah, right...like you have ANY ears, listening to all that stoner
rock while killing off your brain cells with bad pot in the '70s. You
stretch credulity to new elastic limits when you say crap like this.
You lost ANY credibility over that Magnevox amplifier comedy! What
pieces of shit those were...5-10% THD at "rated" power! What's that
piece of shit got in it for output, two 6BQ5s? 12 watts...TOPS...on a
good day. Oh, by the way...are you properly matching output
impedances when you hook that toaster up to speaker loads? Do you
know what happens when you DON'T? I didn't think so...idiot.
>Reel to reel tapes degrade over time, heck so do studio master tapes.
>So that is a characteristic of analog tape, not a deficiency of the
>8-track format. <snip>
Errrr...really! BRILLIANT theory. So 8 track cartridges don't use
analog tape then, huh? Just what DO they use?
>If you are giving up on 8-tracks after trying them
>again for 6 months- you never were really into them to begin
>with...just my gut feeling intuition. <snip>
I never was. They were a joke back when they were still being sold to
anyone with any audio credentials or ear. They're just, as one poster
put it, "fun". What got me in here in the first place were two
events: 1.) there was virtually NO credible documentation as to what
this format is capable of, and 2.) chasing you down to warn people of
your scams and frauds...something I never had to do, since it turned
out they were all wise to you already, as witnessed by that page on
8trackheaven that Malcolm posted LONG before I ever got here.
Sorry, Noodles, this attempt at absolving yourself from blame just
won't work. YOU are the problem. YOU are a criminal. YOU are
uneducated about matters pertaining to analog tape. YOU must go.
>ps- the more you attack me, the more lumps and black eyes you give
>yourself- I read all your replies to this thread- anyone coming into
>this NG would see, you are sounding like a broken record already. <snip>
The smart child would dive into the archives. In just a few minutes'
time, they'd find you out for the mentally disturbed moron you really
are. My credibility stands. Yours is swirling around in a toilet
somewhere in northeast Pennsylvania.
>Give
>it a rest and things will definitely improve for you. If you're done
>with the format, then move on to another hobby or pursuit. This NG was
>here long before you or I, and it will be here long after we both stop
>posting here. No one person makes the 8-track hobby. <snip>
The "8 track hobby" getting rid of you would do it incalculable good.
And, you'll be gone from this NG is short order, anyway. If this
missive was some sort of plea for mercy, it's not going to work.
Shut the fuck up, Noodles...you disgusting excuse for a human being.
DeserTBoB
<tripping...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>You should also think of what the FEDS are going to do, after they
>investigate and find no wrongdoing...if they waste expensive field time
>over a non-issue- they aren't going to like it very much.
>
>they're gonna come looking...for YOU. For giving them false leads. <snip>
Ooops...there he goes, off on yet another delusional rant!
>
>Since when is selling on ebay "fraud" ?? <snip>
When you represent an article as being one thing, and sell something
other than that and of lesser quality without explaining the
difference, that is fraud according to all state and Federal statutes.
You are guilty of fraud. You are also guilty of pirating another
person's personal intellectual property when you were bootlegging
Russ' movie. Just offering a "refund" or agreeing to stop bootlegging
the movie doesn't eviscerate the underlying crime, although most
prosecutors will decline to prosecute. You're just lucky we're
talking low dollar amounts; if this were expensive stuff, you'll be up
before the Feds already.
>Notice how D-Bob uses the El Cassette quote (directly taken from the
>beginning of the VHS So Wrong movie) <snip>
ELCASET...the trade name was ELCASET...and the guy in "Big Buck's"
store had an example of one, if you'll remember correctly.
> and also the quotes on Ebay
>ruining the 8-track hobby (again, ditto lifted from the movie trailer
>update, a quote directly from the woman writer/author) <snip>
Who "lifted" anything? It's fact.
> Now take that
>info, add to it he's using the worst deck Wannabesak ever made with a
>DC motor- it all comes together to form a picture- he's way behind the
>learning curve with 8-tracks actually...and he's posing and constantly
>getting his ass kicked here cuz of it. The guy basically is not very
>bright. <snip>
...and you're a middle aged, live at home victim of THC induced
infantile personality disorder with paranoic delusionary features.
See your psychiatrist for meds.
>He thought Aerosmith Live Bootleg, was a real bootleg. <snip>
READ the post again, moron. I didn't definitely say it was a
"bootleg." You don't do well with nuance, do you...fuckhead?
>He had no clue about Ebay offering delayed auction time scheduling- and
>went around parading my auction had been pulled- when in truth it had
>not even started yet. <snip>
Yeah, but it was fun while it lasted! Made ya look, too!
>He saw a pic of Dan Gibson, and actually thought it was me, and said to
>morph it with a penis on the face. When he was told that was not me,
>he changed his tune and said he knew that. <snip>
That's because you're a low life scumbag who uses visages of others to
hide behind...you fuckwad low life.
>What we are seeing with D-Bob, is what is known as a "compensatory
>facade", which he tries to hide by constantly attacking me- I am a
>threat to him because I can see through his veil and know the truth
>about him. I am constantly exposing his mistakes and misconceptions. <snip>
You haven't been successful yet. You also do not know how to use test
equipment, know nothing of analog tape technology, and are a
simplistic moron beguild by right-wing oriented religious kooks and AM
radio political crazies...because you are UNABLE to THINK FOR
YOURSELF...a feature of THC induced infantile pesonality disorder.
>It's not wrong to be an 8-track newbie- it's wrong to be a newbie, and
>act like a veteran- D-Bob is the typical 8-track neophyte who knows
>shit about 8-tracks and is on a very steep learning curve- and lacks
>the money and good sense to buy a really good deck. Or perhaps he has
>a pre-conceived notion that 8-tracks just CAN'T sound good- so he's too
>cheap to invest in a good deck. That's why the high prices that ebay
>decks bring $200-400 each, incenses him so much. It goes against his
>nature and thinking about 8-tracks. <snip>
I was recording stuff on Ampexes while you were still trying to figure
out which end of a 4 track went into a Muntz machine, fuckwad. Go
kill yourself...do the world a favor.
>Bob in reality, hates 8-tracks- you can tell by his posts when his true
>feelings come out about them. The only reason he has to live now- is
>to log onto Usenet and come after me. Otherwise, he'd most likely be
>sitting watching re-runs of old TV shows on cable, until he shriveled
>up and died. <snip>
I ask anyone to take a digest look at my technically oriented posts.
I won't say they're the "last word" on the subject, but there's more
there than is available anywhere else on the Internet at this time.
That's what I wanted to do, I have the equipment and expertise to do
so, and I did it. All Charlie Nudo has been able to do is perpetrate
more frauds.
Shut the fuck up, Noodles. Oh, that's right, with moderation, the
modbots will shut you up FOR us! ENJOY LIFE IN THE SHITCAN SOON,
FUCKNUTS!
DeserTBoB
<tripping...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>We can all see how you lifted <snip>
DeserTBoB
<milesa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Just enjoy 'em for the nostalgia and the fact most other people you
>know don't even know why you'd use 'em. Heck, a few younger kids in my
>school don't even seem to know what a cassette is; older ones are all
>on CDs: "Got a new CD? Burn it for me! Oh, wait, I already downloaded
>it off KaZaA." I just enjoy 'em and say, "So the sound stinks. It's
>cheap, it's amusing, and it's got more character than a CD any day."
>Don't sweat the stuff unless you're called to restore a decades-old,
>filthy cart for a local rich eccentric. (Not very likely.) <snip>
A healthy attitude! Here's a little 8 track story that jibes quite
well with that, which happened, in fact, today.
I drove my dog down to the big city for a visit with his cardiologist
today, about a 220 mile round trip, so I took the "grocery getter,"
the only car left with an 8 track in it. I was armed with various
"known good" tapes and some strange unknowns I had opened up, cleaned,
padded and spliced, just to see what was on them. Things sounded
pretty good...within the usual limitations of truncated frequency
response and the like, but overall, pretty listenable. I got down
there, and Buster had to have an ECG, so I went to a Starbuck's (50¢
instant coffee for $4.50 a shot...a scam even Noodles would love!) and
read the morning's Times while trying to discern why I'd want to pay
$4.50 for creamy coffee while I could have it for less than a buck at
the Winchell's catty-corner from this place. Andy Rooney needs to
look into this.
After finishing the op-ed page of the Times, I went back, Buster was
still in x-ray, so I went out to the car and popped in one of the
"mystery" carts while reading the entertainment section. This is one
of a batch of German carts with "far out" psychedelic labels from SMS,
obviously a BASF OEM product, but with seemingly better tape inside
than US marketed BASFs (and Rat Shacks) I've come across and learned
to loathe. This particular one had "Iron Butterfly" printed neatly on
a separate, taped on label, so I popped it in. The brain child who
recorded this started that perennial stoner Top 40 hit,
"In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida", at the start of the famous drum break, using the
"pause" function, so a really funny start-up wow got things going,
whereafter we got into the drum break. I arched an eyebrow, as things
started sounding pretty damned good...REAL good, in point of fact.
This dub had no flutter, the top end was all there, and obviously the
recorder's head was properly aligned...all things I never expect from
old home recorded dupes. Not only that, the disc that was used to
make the dub was noise free...rare for stoner rock! So, I cranked it
up and sat there listening critically. The performance, of course, is
more laughable now than it was in '69, but at least the quality was
really good! Then, we went to the B side cuts on the next program,
and then some stuff from their next album (you know, the one where
they could actually afford a Hammond B-3 instead of the cheesy Vox
Continental heard on their first hit album.) Some of that stuff, in
retrospect, was pretty good, with a couple of good cuts. I decided
not to just bulk erase the cart, and keep it in the Lebo Double
Strapped Library as-is. In fact, "I.A.G.D.V" DOES sound better without
those over-the-top lyrics
So, I'm sitting there, half reading about what was playing on the
theater circuit and half listening to the cart, when a HOT looking
chick comes up to the window, and she says, "I LOVE classic rock!" I
said, "Yeah, and look what it's playing on." She'd never even seen
one before..."What's THAT?" "Why, that's an 8 track cartridge!
Here...take a look." While she bent over to examine the plastic
sandwich, I was lascivioiusly checking out her equipment...more fun
than Iron Butterfly EVER was. There's something about today's young
chicks, with hip huggers (or whateverthehell they call them these
days) and navel rings that's puriently satisfying to someone who lived
through the '60s and '70s and survived intact. She then asked if they
still make them anymore, which got the negative reply, and she said,
"They're COOL!" There's that word again..."cool". She REALLY liked
the psychedelic color blob on the label...that rated a "TOO cool!"
from her. So, I popped the Butterfly Boys back into their slot and
they continued to bang and croak away, sounding pretty good all the
while. "Wow...I didn't think they had music in cars back in those
days!" Durrr...sexy and clueless...JUST how I like them.
"My mom had these cassette things, but I never saw these." I went on
to explain about 8trackheaven, The 8 Track Mind, "So Wrong, They're
Right," a.c.8-t-t (although she was clueless about Usenet) and on and
on, debating on whether I should try to lure her into the passenger's
seat. "Oh well...gotta jet! See ya!" Curses! Oh well, Buster was
probably waiting for me inside, and as it turned out, he was...along
with a $491 bill and an appointment for his surgery next week.
So, 8 tracks got me some time with an obviously sexually well built
chick...forget the music (she never heard of Iron Butterfly,
either..."What a NAME...like, wow!"...and the fidelity of the program
had NOTHING to do with it. I was "cool"...because I had 8 tracks in
my old hatchback grocery getter! Now...how do I get "cooler" so she
can't resist going for a ride? A matter for further research!
>I think that I still try to improve the listening quality of the tapes,
>though. Tape hiss is annoying, so I adjust treble and bass as much as I
>can. Records: Pops and cracks annoy me, too, but I learn to live with
>it. Tapes are good, of course. And I continue to imprison what may be
>secret "Go to CD and get true quality!" urges for the sake of my
>obsession for old tech. =D <snip>
Best of all worlds is the key. The Cad I just sold had all
three...CD, cassette with both equalizations, AND 8 track. The
"Delco-Blowz" system relatively sucked though...the tape transport was
marginal, and the CD changer didn't like railroad tracks or expansion
joints on the freeway. When the Blaupunkt tape head would be lined up
for one direction, it would be off on the reverse...a niggly little
problem that took me a couple of days to fix due to a mediocre design.
Once that was fixed, cassettes sounded fine. Although the amps in the
"Delco-Blowz" system were good and clean (and worth about 30 watts
total across three channels, at best), the speakers were pure
Bose..."Got no highs? Got no lows! Sound blows, MUST BE BOSE!" A
different compliment of speakers fixed things up nicely, although the
summed "bass" channel to the back 6X9 was another cheesy thing I had
to fix. The 8 track I had grafted into this system was a Sanyo
Audiospec, which turned out to be a relatively good player all by
itself, although I didn't even use the power amps at all. I
disconnected them entirely, instead taking the pre-driver stages out
to the "Delco-Blowz" system through a selector switch into the CD
changer inputs.
It was a lot of work for little enjoyment, but I couldn't refuse the
offer I got on the car, so off it went. I still wonder why he didn't
question why he wasn't getting a lot of 8 track carts with the car,
but he didn't care. What was cool about the Sanyo deck in that car?
The shade of beige on the face plate matched the dash material
exactly! Also cool was that the Bauxendahl tone controls and balance
pot affected the outputs of the pre-driver stage, so I had two sets of
everything...which actually worked really well.
Now, I just have a Paragoric AM/FM/8 in the old "grocery getter," and
it does well enough (a real good head on that Paragoric), but not
quite as well as that Sanyo. By the way...those 8 track motors
Noodles sells on ebay? I've got the SAME IDENTICAL one in my grocery
getter's Paragoric cheapie player. "High end" my ass, Noodles!
dB
William W Western
fares.
I always look forward to how you will work "Trippin' or Noodles" in
to your narratives.
As I recall, you are in Arizona. I have noticed that cars from
that area are affected by the dryness and harsh sunlight of that climate
(vinyl tops, dashboards, seats, etc.). But rust-free. Cars in areas subject
to road salt, coastal sea air, and humidity probably experience other
difficulties. Just wondering if that would be a factor if a person was
deciding where to choose buying used car equipment (such as an 8 track
player) assuming the price and seller reputation were similar. Probably no
worse than sitting in a damp basement up against a corrosive concrete wall
or a blistering hot attic storage area the past 25 years though.
DeserTBoB
<wweste...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Good story. Pets can be expensive, eh? Let us know how Buster
>fares. <snip>
Hopefully, he'll pull through the pacemaker implant. He's got about a
70% chance of making it, but it's better than having him spiral
downward in health and quality of life. He's a great dog, and I give
him what a lot of Americans don't have these days...decent health
care!
> I always look forward to how you will work "Trippin' or Noodles" in
>to your narratives. <snip>
Always good to keep your enemy in your sights.
> As I recall, you are in Arizona. <snip>
Wrong, but we'll let Noodles believe whatever he wants. He's so
stupid, he can't even locate me. There's a LOT of desert in the
US...the Sonoran, the Mojave, the Colorado, the High Plains, the
leeward parts of Washington and Oregon...he'll have lots of fun trying
to figure out where I am!
>I have noticed that cars from
>that area are affected by the dryness and harsh sunlight of that climate
>(vinyl tops, dashboards, seats, etc.). But rust-free. <snip>
UV destruction wasn't nearly as big a problem 20 years ago as it is
now, thanks to ozone depletion caused by a clueless government run by
corporate hacks. UV detectors in many Western areas now detect UV
exposure over 20 times what it was even ten years ago...that's
extreme, and was also why the government launched that loony
"chemtrail" project about a decade ago. Since being exposed in the
national media after years of "conspiracy theory" posts on the
Internet, the government has finally given up on this band-aid fix,
which used surplus black KC-135s with no tail numbers to criss-cross
the skies with a fog of silica particulates. The idea, launched by
lunatic nuke scientist Edwin Teller, was to blanket the Western
Hemisphere with this garbage in an attempt to compensate for the huge
increase in UV wave bombardment on the earth's surface caused by ozone
layer destruction. The idea does have some merit, but it just doesn't
work overall, and has caused many undesireable localized climate
events, as well as huge increases in respiratory illness in many parts
of the country, especially the West. The European Union threatened to
bring the issue to a head at the UN Security Council, so the 135s quit
flying. Point your search engine to "chemtrails", "Teller", "ozone",
and take a look. Teller, a darling of right wing lunatics everywhere,
is also remembered for his fanciful plan to detonate nuclear
(pronounced "noo-kyoo-lur" by our idiot president...still) on various
West Coast shoreline points to create new "super harbors" to aid more
import of cheap Chinese crap for robber barons like Wally-Fart.
> Cars in areas subject
>to road salt, coastal sea air, and humidity probably experience other
>difficulties. Just wondering if that would be a factor if a person was
>deciding where to choose buying used car equipment (such as an 8 track
>player) assuming the price and seller reputation were similar. <snip>
One axiom of the car restoration business is to ALWAYS go for a
"western" or "Arizona" car...rust free. California's still a favorite
for eastern collectors, since that state will not use salt compounds
for treatment of icy roads anywhere in the state, as won't most
Western states. However, there is getting to be a problem for cars
built from the late '50s onward, as the high UV and photochemical smog
destroy plastics used in electric connectors and the like. Many GM
vehicles from high smog areas, like Houston and Los Angeles, built
from 1958 onward until the adoption of ABS plastics for connector
shells are having very big electrical problems, due to exposure of the
earlier Nylon-based plastic compounds to photochemical smog, which
causes them to disintegrate, causing shorts and opens everywhere. I
know, I went through this on a couple of cars I restored, and it was
the #1 pain in the butt problem on those. Cars from cleaner
environments have far less of this problem. For sheet metal, though,
there's no better place to get parts than a desert yard. On
mechanicals, it doesn't really make that much difference from what
I've seen, except that parts left out in a yard back in the East or in
the Midwest will be encrusted with rust. The South is bad,
also...stuff rusts there due to excessive humidity. For "soft" parts,
like interior panels and seating, the North is the place to go, it
seems. I had some original door panels for a '71 Cougar shipped to me
from Minnesota, and there was no UV cracking/fading at all on them.
>Probably no
>worse than sitting in a damp basement up against a corrosive concrete wall
>or a blistering hot attic storage area the past 25 years though. <snip>
I've learned not to buy "garage sale" stuff from the Northeast or the
South...the stuff invariably arrives with its own supply of mold and
mildew. Books, LPs, even 8 track carts from those areas, if they were
stored in uncontrolled areas, generally have some sort of moisture
problem. Carts from the Deep South invariably have bubbled/peeling
labels due to humidity exposure. It's a known fact that Scotch oxides
from the '50s through the early '70s are destoryed by excessive
moisture, and 8 track carts are no exception. The oxide will peel
right off the backing onto the head. On "real" RTR machines, I've
seen Scotch 202 be wiped completely clean of oxide in one pass when
the tape was stored in a humid environment. This happened to a friend
of mine who now lives on Oahu; that humidity permeated the oxide coat
and about 90% of it wiped right off on the leading tension guide,
leaving a completely clear ½" strip of Mylar on the takeup reel. He
didn't know about "baking" tapes before attempting to play them after
long storage. In my case, I have many 10½" reels of various
formulations in sealed cans with dessicant packs, and I've never had a
shedding problem with any of them, even Ampex 406 and 456, which are
notorious for "sticky shed." However, one problem with "dry" tapes is
that the whale oil lubricant vaporizes over the years, causing "tape
scrape" on playback. "Baking" at controlled temperatures will drive
enough of that out of the oxide layer to make the tape playable at
least one more time, and now is common practice in transcription work
to digital. Incidently, the longest lived tapes were made by Ampex
and Maxell, the shortest came from 3M and BASF. Unfortunately, much
of the "early stereo" era of US music recording was done on Scotch
111, an acetate backed tape which has two problems...the oxide will
shed if exposed to humidity AND the acetate backing is extremely
fragile on a three motor machine if not handled with kid gloves.
Here's an example of the corrosive environment of the South. Not too
long ago, someone put up an ebay ad for an Ampex 300-4SS that
allegedly came from Sun Records in Nashville, owned by Sam Phillips.
The tale went that Phillips and this Texan's wife had an affair years
ago, and they were still friends. As some sort of gesture of
friendship, Phillips gave the couple this complete Ampex, which they
promptly stuffed away in their garage. Over the years, the humidity
of the Texas air corroded every piece and part on that 300, and the
photos for the auction showed that even the aluminum alloy in the
scrape roller and other aluminum parts was severely corroded. The
opening bid was for 3 large, but a cursory look at what was left of
this machine caused many recording pros to comment that the thing was
probably not even good for much in parts, let alone a complete
recorder. Even the original Ampex "penthouse" console was covered
with scabs of rust and peeling paint.
Now I've experienced a lot of these machines over the years in the LA
area and elsewhere, and have never seen one so completely destroyed by
atmospheric elements. In my area, I don't think parking this beast
out in the back yard out in the open for a year wouldn've caused this
much damage. This seller was near Houston, the smog capital of the
US, so the combination of the humidity plus the corrosive toxins in
the Houston air conspired to turn this deck into a pile of scrap
metal. Hell, I even had spare transports and electronics for Ampexes
stored in my garage over the years for parts, and just putting them in
plastic bags kept them in the same condition as when they went in.
Obviously, these goofs didn't know what they had...an original
Sel-Sync equipped 300, either 3 or 4 track, is pretty desireable these
days, and the lineage to Sun Records made it a valuable working
collectable. However, once again proving the power of ebay to reach
every dipshit in the world, someone ponied up the money for it. I
hope he knows a good scrap dealer; I'll give long odds it'll never
play again.
dB
William W Western
> has been a supplier to the avaiation industry since after WW II, and
> dentist, after 20 years, is still using that service and system, and
> is still working...fairly well, anyway. In the planes, the machine
> pinch roller elminated most of the failures of the idiotic cartridge
> captive pinch rollers in 8 tracks, and this system was used on United,
> TWA, Continental and probably others until conversion to digital. I
> know Delta had it also, at least on their L-1011s, because my Lockheed
> buddy used to install them on the planes at the Palmdale plant. I
> know the 707s and 720s that Delta inherited from their hostile
> takeover of Western Airlines in the '80s had them too.
industry carts? Stories, songs, commercials? Did they ever have the
capability for patrons to select what was heard? Is your dentist's system
updated material-wise or still the stuff from years ago? Funny how you
forget how things were before technologies change. Am I assuming correctly
that department stores that had music played over a system like you
mentioned? I used to do window work at the old train depot here in town and
they had a room that had two huge commercial radio station type turntables.
The depot had been shut down since probably mid 70s, but that is where they
played the music and did some PA announcements from. Probably considered
switching to carts but the writing was on the wall for the passenger train
industry and I would imagine the accounting department turned down any
requisition for updating. At what point did these public places start
"piping in" music rather than in-house.
Another one that intrigues me is Super 8 surveillance film. The
consumer super 8 carts run just over 3 minutes. I think the surveillance
carts ran longer. I wonder if they just started up at certain times or if
they went continuously and someone changed the film every five, or whatever,
minutes. Interestingly enough, the red light cameras her at intersections
use film. I think it has to do with court evidence? Someone goes around
collecting and reloading at prescribed times.
William W Western
> long ago, someone put up an ebay ad for an Ampex 300-4SS that
> allegedly came from Sun Records in Nashville
another legendary studio closing up shop.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/7037431/markknopfler?rssfeed=musicnews&rnd=1109446874746&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1040
DeserTBoB
Sad, but a sign of the decline of the pop music business. Now,
"records" are made by musically clueless thugs with computers and drum
machines. The big three labels love this, since production costs are
next to nil...pure profit. Muscle Shoals certainly did have its share
of the gold in the '60s and '70s, but, as always, it wasn't the
studio...it was the musical talent within that did the trick. The
Muscle Shoals Horns and Rhythm Section were about the top of the game
during their heyday.
I remember when everyone was bemoaning the fact that Gold Star in
Hollywood was being torn down. That building WAS unique, because of
its laberynth basement echo chambers, fully exploited by Phil Spector
in the pre-British Invasion days. A lot of good old equipment went to
auction during the Gold Star shutdown. I still have a couple of the
Altec submixers and some Ampex stuff. By the time they shut down,
most of the gear was in pretty shabby shape, due to deferred
maintenance caused by decreasing bookings over the years.
Gold Star was never really a good room for "distributed mono" stereo
or mixdowns; its glory lay in those late mono days of the "Wall Of
Sound" created by those massive echo chambers. To be honest, I think
the best echo chambers in the world reside on Vine St. in Hollywood,
built in 1954...the Capitol building, a room that will probably never
go away. Another great operation was the scoring studios at Warner's
in Burbank, where probably some of the best "live in studio" 3 track
stereo was done circa 1958-1960.
dB
DeserTBoB
<wweste...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Very interesting information. What material was on the aviation
>industry carts? Stories, songs, commercials? Did they ever have the
>capability for patrons to select what was heard? <snip>
Mostly "soft pop" of the era was programmed onto carts for use in the
Telex merry-go-round. Later ˝" carts allowed, like the dentist's
surgery system, random access by each passenger through means of a
selector. Drive lines from each program channel went to each seat's
armrest, where the passenger could select his/her choice using a
thumbwheel switch. A transducer in the armrest powered the acoustic
headset. When I was still criss-crossing the country a decade ago,
the "stethoscopes" were still in use, but I don't know about now.
>Am I assuming correctly
>that department stores that had music played over a system like you
>mentioned? I used to do window work at the old train depot here in town and
>they had a room that had two huge commercial radio station type turntables.
>The depot had been shut down since probably mid 70s, but that is where they
>played the music and did some PA announcements from. Probably considered
>switching to carts but the writing was on the wall for the passenger train
>industry and I would imagine the accounting department turned down any
>requisition for updating. At what point did these public places start
>"piping in" music rather than in-house. <snip>
No, almost all department stores and restaurant chains subscribed to
Dick Simonton's Muzak programming service. Initially, feeds to
subscribers went via leased line telephone circuits. In the '60s,
subcarriers were added to standard FM radio broadcasts, and special FM
tuners with differently tuned IF strips would demodulate the Muzak
program for distribution to the building's audio system. I remember
that many Muzak subscribers still were getting phone line service in
metropolitain areas as late as the mid-1980s.
Some big stores had their own in-house music program production,
notably Wanamaker's in Philadelphia (home of the world's second
largest pipe organ, also still in use today), Sak's and Bloomingdale's
in New York and Marshall Field's in Chicago. Over time, they all
eventually went over to subscription services. In your train station
example, it's possible that they used Muzak's 16" transcription disk
service, also used by many other retailers and even radio stations.
Vertically cut Muzak vinyl transcription disks from the '40s are
collectable today, and usually go for big bucks. It's an arcane piece
of the record collecting hobby. For the times, the disks, vertically
cut with 3 mil grooves at 33.3 RPM, was pretty "hi-fi" for the times,
and still sound pretty good. You need a turntable capable of handling
a 16" disk, and a tonearm to do the same. SME made (makes?) a variant
of its 3009 Series II arms in 16" length for just this purpose. One
great thing about a 16" or longer arm...no anti-skating is needed!
Today, much music programming service is received via C- and Ku-band
satellite on digital carriers, and much is also done via CD for use in
CD changers...which oddly resember the old Telex cart changers in
functionality. Many restaurant managers try to curb their budgets by
playing their own CDs in their establishments, which is illegal.
Eventually, ASCAP gets around to fining them and grants them a
license. Faced with the need to pay royalties directly to ASCAP, most
operators opt instead to subscribe to a music service, of which there
are many.
> Another one that intrigues me is Super 8 surveillance film. The
>consumer super 8 carts run just over 3 minutes. I think the surveillance
>carts ran longer. I wonder if they just started up at certain times or if
>they went continuously and someone changed the film every five, or whatever,
>minutes. Interestingly enough, the red light cameras her at intersections
>use film. I think it has to do with court evidence? Someone goes around
>collecting and reloading at prescribed times. <snip>
They were declared unconstitutional not too long ago. Many
jurisdictions will still try to get you to pay on a "camera ticket,"
but you can beat one by simply demanding a court hearing. Last I
read, municipalities were looking for a loophole which would allow
them to skirt the constitutionality issue. Lockheed-Martin sunk
millions into the "red light camera" business and support perosnnel to
man them, and took a stock hit when the Supreme Court refused to
reverse a 9th Circuit decision on the issue. Well, at least the Bill
Of Rights is still alive...sometimes...despite the Repukes attempts to
abolish it through neglect!
<insert obligatory Noodles content here:> Hey, Noodles! Your hero in
the White House has slipped to a 47% approval rating per
Gallup...lowest in history for a re-elected president this soon after
inauguration.
dB
trippingtoo8track
the authorized DVD for $15
or do you prefer to buy cheap knock-offs over the real thing, then bash
the knock offs ??
I think the latter is true in your case...as you are unemployed and on
a very limited budget.
if you don't know the difference between a REAL Aerosmith Live Bootleg
tape, and a real bootleg, who are you to judge fraud ?? You have no
clue, and no expertise in the area, obviously. You thought the Live
Boot was fake too- so in your mind, Steven Tyler is committing fraud
for releasing that authorized tape ??
lick my boots, you little liberal worm. Vote welfare state- vote
Hillary.
DeserTBoB
<tripping...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>if the vhs tape is a fraud, then return it for a full refund, and buy
>the authorized DVD for $15 <snip>
OK!
>or do you prefer to buy cheap knock-offs over the real thing, then bash
>the knock offs ?? <snip>
Asshole...you never present this tape on ebay as a "knock off," just
like you misrepresent your fraudulent "alignment tapes" are being
Audiotex carts. Both are cases of fraud.
>I think the latter is true in your case...as you are unemployed and on
>a very limited budget. <snip>
I could buy your fucking shack cash.
>if you don't know the difference between a REAL Aerosmith Live Bootleg
>tape, and a real bootleg, who are you to judge fraud ?? <snip>
Who the fuck CARES? Aerosmith SUCKS!
> You have no
>clue, and no expertise in the area, obviously. You thought the Live
>Boot was fake too- so in your mind, Steven Tyler is committing fraud
>for releasing that authorized tape ?? <snip>
Steven Tyler's a moron...much like you are, Noodles.
trippingtoo8track
DeserTBoB wrote:
>
> OK!
Ooops, you'll have to wait until that fat "pension" check arrives
first...
>
> Asshole...you never present this tape on ebay as a "knock off," just
> like you misrepresent your fraudulent "alignment tapes" are being
> Audiotex carts. Both are cases of fraud.
You're opinion is not credible- your judgement of the Aerosmith Live
Boot tape as a real bootleg, proves that. You obviously don't know the
difference between a fraud and real thing. Which would explain why you
bought 2 tapes thinking they were something else !!
>
> I could buy your fucking shack cash.
Not on your pathetic union pension, you couldn't. Esp. since your
driving a VW rabbit with over 200,000 miles on it...yeh, a real high
roller you are...
> Who the fuck CARES? Aerosmith SUCKS!
We all care- because your making judgements as to what's a fraud tape
and what's original authorized, when in fact you don't even know the
difference. You're just a retired, broken old union worker, who busted
his ass for shit wages his whole life. And now you're making even LESS
money on retirement...HAHAHAHAHA !!
>
> Steven Tyler's a moron...much like you are, Noodles.
That "moron" owns a Lear Jet, performs at Super Bowl halftime shows, is
in the rock and roll hall of fame, has a daughter who's a successful
actor- and is lead man for the most durable mainstream rock and roll
band the USA has ever seen in rock history, going on 35 years with the
original lineup. That "moron" is also a millionaire. With an "M"...a
bit more than your pathetic cost of living union pension ! He also
owns a Lamborgini (SP), which is a bit upscale from your 200,000 mile
VW Rabbit...(LOL !!) And he can write a hit rock tune that will rake
in millions $$ with ease, like the average Joe brushes their teeth- oh,
that's right, you don't HAVE any teeth left...
>
> Shut the fuck up, Noodles.
Lick my boots, you moronic, union brainwashed, assinine, pathetic
liberal worm. What did you do in the union, clean up the job johnnies
on the job site ?? (laughter....)
DeserTBoB
<tripping...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>You're <snip>
YOUR...the word is YOUR...a possessive adjective. "You're" is a
contraction of the third person singular and plural forms of the verb,
"to be"...fuckhead.
>opinion is not credible- your judgement of the Aerosmith Live
>Boot tape as a real bootleg, proves that. You obviously don't know the
>difference between a fraud and real thing. <snip>
More delusions from the founder of NudoFraud® Industries, trying as he
might to try to cover up his trail of frauds and deceptions.
1.) I don't give a shit about anything relating to "Aeroshit" or
Steven Tyler.
2.) It was OBVIOUSLY a genuine release...a quick look (AS I stated in
that post) at the cart and label proved that.
3.) Your little attempt at taking the focus off your frauds and scams
will not work. You are a documented con artist and fraudster. That
fact remains completely unchallenged.
> Which would explain why you
>bought 2 tapes thinking they were something else !! <snip>
Yes...I thought they were real, when in fact, they were TWO FRAUDS.
>Not on your pathetic union pension, you couldn't. Esp. since your
>driving a VW rabbit with over 200,000 miles on it...yeh, a real high
>roller you are... <snip>
Sold that car years ago. It was a good investment! Money in the
bank, and with lower HC and CO emissions than any gas engined car of
the era.
>
>> Who the fuck CARES? Aerosmith SUCKS!
>
>We all care- because your making judgements as to what's a fraud tape
>and what's original authorized <snip>
Your shit is fraudulent. Your "alignment carts" are frauds. Your VHS
dupes of "So Wrong They're Right" were not only frauds, but were
ripoffs from the film's creator, so that entails a count of fraud PLUS
theft. Too bad he didn't have the presence of mind to file a
copyright claim when he shot that thing. You're a petty criminal,
Noodles...both by the letter of the law and morally. Pretty sad
commentary for a loony tunes christian nutjob, I'd say.
If your frauds are so righteous, why did you quit selling all the
"quad frauds" awhile back? Hmmmm? I remember when you tried to hawk
that fraud of Pink Floyd's "The Wall" some time ago, and the seller
contacted me to know if I'd started any legal action against you.
You're not telling everyone about all the refund checks and
"bought-and-paid-for" feedback you have on ebay...you lousy crook.
>when in fact you don't even know the
>difference. You're just a retired, broken old union worker, who busted
>his ass for shit wages his whole life. And now you're making even LESS
>money on retirement...HAHAHAHAHA !! <snip>
I bet I have more cash assets on hand than you do. Fortunately for
me, I used 85% of them to buy Euros, as Bush's idoitic domestic
policies continue to sink the dollar to new lows, JUST like C. Fred
Bergsten said they would months ago. That's great...just having
certificates of deposit in Euros appreciated 30% in 6 months NOT
INCLUDING THE INTEREST PAID, while you sit there and comb stinky
thrift shops and garage sales looking for shit to sell on ebay. I'll
take my life over yours anyday, you piece of horse shit.
>That "moron" owns a Lear Jet, performs at Super Bowl halftime shows, is
>in the rock and roll hall of fame, has a daughter who's a successful
>actor- and is lead man for the most durable mainstream rock and roll
>band the USA has ever seen in rock history, going on 35 years with the
>original lineup. <snip>
So what? Their music sucks.
>That "moron" is also a millionaire. <snip>
In a capitalist society, wealth seldom equates to merit. Look at
Peter Hurwitz. Look at Carl Icahn. Look at Frank Lorenzo. Look at
Billy Gates. Crooks, all of them. Talk about a thief...Billy Gates
got where he was by stealing ideas from everyone in Silicon Valley in
the '70s!
> With an "M"...a
>bit more than your pathetic cost of living union pension ! He also
>owns a Lamborgini (SP), which is a bit upscale from your 200,000 mile
>VW Rabbit...(LOL !!) <snip>
LOL...as IF a wop car's worth having, no matter what the price. "FIAT
= Fix it again, Tony!"
Hey Noodles! Ya hear about the new Pirelli radials?
DAGO through mud...
DAGO through snow...
DAGO through ice...
...and when DAGO flat, DAGO WOP WOP WOP!
>And he can write a hit rock tune that will rake
>in millions $$ with ease, like the average Joe brushes their teeth- oh,
>that's right, you don't HAVE any teeth left... <snip>
Music for morons like you, Noodles. I prefer higher quality material.
I have very nice teeth because I've had full, no co-pay dental
coverage for the last 30 years. I don't shell out a shilling for
medical, either. In this declining America, THAT'S WEALTH!
>> Shut the fuck up, Noodles.
>
>Lick my boots <snip>
...you Prick IN-SANE-torum butt boy.
Good thing you're in Pennsylvania. If you were closer, you'd be
fucked up badly by now. You still may be. Many 8 track people in
Pennsylvania hate your guts as much as I do.