Wollensak 8080
DeserTBoB
option) sold for $73...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14999&item=5738534342&rd=1
...thus proving once more than Charles Nouilles (the french frauder),
aka Chuckie Noodles, aka 66fourdoorrustbucket, aka NudoFraud, doesn't
know his ass from a mudhole.
Eat shit and die, Noodles!
dB
tripping...@yahoo.com
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5732288634&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5737473218&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
GEE whiz DB, how come these AKAI 80D-SS tape decks go for twice as much
as your Wollensuk brand ???
Could it be the AKAI has a huge AC motor in it yielding ZERO
wow/flutter ??
Or just the basic superior overall design of the AKai ??
or all of the above ??
HAHAHAHA
now let's all watch as DB backpeddles in typical liberal democrate
fashion with a littany of "if's" "but's" and a tapestry of
profanity...
those are the facts DB, Akai value beats Wollensak hands down, at least
2 to 1, and during the summer, you can get Wollies for $10...
Wollensak's SUCK
8 tracker from hell
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5732288634&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
>
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5737473218&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
>
>
> GEE whiz DB, how come these AKAI 80D-SS tape decks go for twice as much
> as your Wollensuk brand ???
hey stupid fuck, the only reason it went so cheap was because of the time it
was posted. the auction ended at a odd time of day. the wallensaks bring
more than the akais any day, but your too stupid to realize that.
>
> Could it be the AKAI has a huge AC motor in it yielding ZERO
> wow/flutter ??
again, your stupidity shines through. AC motors do have problems with wow &
flutter, mainly due to power line variations.
>
> Or just the basic superior overall design of the AKai ??
superier design? HA!
like the irreplaceable IC chip in the preamp stage that commonly fails &
there is no replacement available anymore.
like the oversize drive belt which is also unavailable.
>
> or all of the above ??
>
> HAHAHAHA
>
> now let's all watch as DB backpeddles in typical liberal democrate
> fashion with a littany of "if's" "but's" and a tapestry of
> profanity...
>
> those are the facts DB, Akai value beats Wollensak hands down, at least
> 2 to 1, and during the summer, you can get Wollies for $10...
> Wollensak's SUCK
NudoFraud, your so full of shit, i dont know how you could still be living.
like i said earlier, you aught to shoot yourself. you are so stupid, you
dont realise that you dont have any dignity left.
--
i have an 8 track mind
DeserTBoB
wrote:
>tripping...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> GEE whiz DB, how come these AKAI 80D-SS tape decks go for twice as much
>> as your Wollensuk brand ??? <snip>
I dunno, Noodles, especially seeing how hard it is to keep the damned
things running.
>hey stupid fuck, the only reason it went so cheap was because of the time it
>was posted. the auction ended at a odd time of day. the wallensaks bring
>more than the akais any day, but your too stupid to realize that. <snip>
I'm not so sure about that, either. Of course, marketing an auction
with the right description and at the right time means a lot when
trying to attract clueless bidders with more money than sense. I've
seen 8075s go anywhere from $5 to $75, and Akais bringing a bit more
on the bottom end...usually, but not always. That quad playback 8080
went for $73, so I'd consider Noodles' assessment, like all of his
idiotic comments, to be baseless.
>
>> Could it be the AKAI has a huge AC motor in it yielding ZERO
>> wow/flutter ??
>
>again, your stupidity shines through. AC motors do have problems with wow &
>flutter, mainly due to power line variations. <snip>
Actually, the power grid's frequency stability is 2E10-8 long term, so
frequency's not really a problem. Voltage dips while the deck's motor
is under heavy load COULD be a problem, certainly. The problem with
an AC motored tape transport is the same, whether it's some 8 track
toy like these or on my Ampexes...inflexibility of speed control. The
Wollensak uses a tachyservo circuit to do two things: stabilize motor
shaft speed at a preset value, and change the current to maintain that
speed when facing different loads, which is most certainly a problem
with 8 tracks. An oversized AC motor just turns at the same speed
regardless of load until overload is reached and loss of synchronicity
occurs, at which point winding overheating quickly takes place.
However, the problem is that you can't get the RIGHT speed except in a
very rare set of circumstances...the exact "right" belt, the exact
"right" load, and so on. I'm aware that cheating takes places by
using thicker or thinner belts, shimming of drive sheaves, etc., but
these are inelegant fixes at best.
Since I possess the curse of perfect pitch, a tape deck that's off
speed drives me nuts, as do groups and performers who are mistuned,
either deliberately or through incompetence. Kenny G, the much
maligned (rightfully so) flugelhorn noodler, purposely tunes his axe
as much as 20 cents SHARP all the time to make his solos stand out to
insensitive ears. Hearing him crank out that elevator music he does
is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me, especially when his
accompaniment is on pitch, which they usually are. Contemporary
symphony orchestras are every bit as guilty also, with many of them
tuning up to A=460 (damned near a half step sharp!!!) in an attempt to
keep jaded ears of fat corporate jerkoffs in the founder's circle
"entertained," while musicianly types in the loges cringe. Dallas'
symphony is the worst at this, but the LA Philharmonic under Salonen's
direction is almost as bad. During the inaugural concert series at
Disney Hall in LA, I estimated that the LA Phil had tuned up to A=455
at least, which gave me fits all night. I never know what key the
average bar band is playing in, because most of them don't know how to
tune up, anyway.
I digress, as usual, but given a choice, having my tape pass the heads
at exactly 15.00 (or 7.500 or 3.750 or 1.87500) IPS is not an option,
but a necessity. It's also a necessity when doing professional studio
work between various machines. Restoration and transcription of many
of the earliest taped performances is problematic, since they were
mastered on Ampex 300s, notoriously sloppy about speed accuracy as
they were (and are.) On later Ampexes (350 and on) using direct drive
sychronous AC capstan motors, good engineering ensured proper tape
speed unless the capstan is worn enough to bring tape speed down,
which is then corrected by capstan resurfacing.
DC servo capstans in pro machines are great as they allow for speed
correction of an improperly recorded master...as long as the owner of
the machine keeps the servo properly calibrated, which is the same
issue as on the Wollensak DC motored decks. On consumer grade AC
powered decks, even reel-to-reel, I've noticed that speed accuracy is
NEVER good, due to a multitude of reasons which vary from model to
model. As I said, even the vaunted Ampex 300 was horrid at
maintaining correct speed due to its indirect drive. So, given the
choice, I'll go for DC servo control on a consumer deck, as I have the
proper alignment tape (NOT a "NudoFraud® Industries" special, which is
the biggest of Noodles' Ebay frauds) with which to set standard speed.
The easier (and less equipment dependent) way to set proper speed is
just to make a timing cart, which I made out of a 41 minute
pre-recorded cart simply by cutting it to exactly 187.5' using a
Hikari Seiki tape counter (you, of course, can use a ruler and a lot
of time). Exactly 10 minutes between track changes, the deck's right
on speed.
>superier design? HA!
>like the irreplaceable IC chip in the preamp stage that commonly fails &
>there is no replacement available anymore.
>like the oversize drive belt which is also unavailable. <snip>
The more I see of these Akais, the less I like them. I also notice
they're somewhat deficient in deep bass by their own published
specifications, as are most 8 track machines. Since most pop music
doesn't contain any deep bass to speak of with very rare exceptions,
it's not a problem on that genre. By "deep," I mean the region from
20 to 60 cycles. Most gee-tawr basses never get below 82 Hz on their
fundamental on the open E string anyway, and there's precious little
of that to begin with. Even orchestral music rarely gets any
significant power in that area unless the contrabasses are at their
lowest note and the timpanis are roaring. This area's basically the
province of the pipe organ and electronic sound sources, as well as
nature recordings of thunder...hardly the kind of fare you'll kind in
the average 8 track in a car! My testing shows conclusively that the
Wollensak 8075 (not necessarily the 8056 and other lower models with
the 775 head) can get down to at least 30 Hz with no effort on record
or playback, and to 25 on the alignment tape almost flat, once you
correct for "fringing effect" of running a full track tape.
>> now let's all watch as DB backpeddles in typical liberal democrate
>> fashion with a littany of "if's" "but's" and a tapestry of
>> profanity... <snip>
If Noodles is bored but lonely, Noodles lets his dog lick his
ass...film at 11. Happy now?
>> those are the facts DB, Akai value beats Wollensak hands down <snip>
Noodles needs a hand UP...his ASS!
>NudoFraud, your so full of shit, i dont know how you could still be living.
>like i said earlier, you aught to shoot yourself. you are so stupid, you
>dont realise that you dont have any dignity left.
Unintelligent people like Noodles don't know when they're finished,
and Noodles has been finished for quite some time.
Another NudoFraud®: He states his "$5-motor-for-$10" can motors are
replacements for Wollensaks, and they certainly are NOT, further
showing that Noodles is completely ignorant on the subject. They also
will not fit many of the other models he claims they will...typical
fraud by Noodles.
dB
Bluemuse
perfect pitch) tuned it to 435 because the strings were so old he was afraid
they'd snap. A few did anyway.
>Most gee-tawr basses never get below 82 Hz on their
>fundamental on the open E string anyway,
Open E on an electric bass is around 41 Hz. However, down there it's competing
in recordings with the kick drum, so engineers often cut that part of the
electric bass's frequency range and focus on the harmonics and midrange. Done
right, it gives the illusion of a lower note without fighting the kick (and has
the advantage of standing out better in car speakers).
--Bob Farace
"I only believe in fire." --Anais Nin
Yodedude2
>Kenny G, the much
>maligned (rightfully so) flugelhorn noodler, purposely tunes his axe
>as much as 20 cents SHARP all the time to make his solos stand out to
>insensitive ears.
Hey, those solos stand out to sensitive ears also--just not in a good way.
> that elevator music he does
>is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me, especially when his
>accompaniment is on pitch, which they usually are.
What about music by Harry Partch, Terry Riley, or Glenn Branca?
>I never know what key the
>average bar band is playing in, because most of them don't know how to
>tune up, anyway.
Hey now, I tune my ebg before every gig, whether it needs it or not <g>!
I sympathize with you on the perfect pitch. Relative pitch is so much more
useful. later, ron
DeserTBoB
>Geez, dB, my old piano would have driven you nuts. My tuner (who also had
>perfect pitch) tuned it to 435 because the strings were so old he was afraid
>they'd snap. A few did anyway. <snip>
Standard Concert Pitch in both the US and Europe changed in the 1930s
from A=435 to A=440, a bit more than a quarter step. This means that
pianos and pipe organs built before that conversion will speak
naturally at A=435 and require some work to get them up to 440. In
the case of the average "family upright" so popular in the early part
of the century, most were tuned at 435 from the factory. There's a
myth that's continued to this day that raising one of these from 435
to 440 will risk collapsing the harp with a calamatous crash, but I've
never seen this happen. Usually, I raise these in a series of four
"pulls" over a week or so BUT, if the strings exhibit rust, I
recommend restringing before attempting it. Usually, in cases where
the piano has resided in improper conditions of humidity, it should be
restrung anyway, as the corrosion would be considerable. I've never
had a harp break due to retuning up 5 Hz, but I can count on rusty
string to do so, even when retuning to 435.
>
>>Most gee-tawr basses never get below 82 Hz on their
>>fundamental on the open E string anyway,
>
>Open E on an electric bass is around 41 Hz. <snip>
41.203, to be precise. However, MOST (not all) electric basses put
out a lot more second harmonic (81.406) than fundamental, and I
misstated that 81 Hz was the fundamental of the low E. There are
"long" basses and alternative tunings some guys use to get way lower,
but it's rare. Joe
>However, down there it's competing
>in recordings with the kick drum, so engineers often cut that part of the
>electric bass's frequency range and focus on the harmonics and midrange. Done
>right, it gives the illusion of a lower note without fighting the kick (and has
>the advantage of standing out better in car speakers). <snip>
That's the very same "mid bass hump" illusion used starting in the
1960s by speaker designers to convince listeners that there was more
bass there than was actually the case. The brain hears the prominent
second harmonic and simply "fills in the blanks" for the fundamental.
Interference with the kick drum makes the bottom sound "muddy" and is
a nightmare for the recording engineer, as the bottom-end power
becomes rather bulky in comparison to the midrange and top end.
Solution? Cut the bottom off the bass; people (well, MOST of them)
won't know the difference. Oldest trick in the book since rock 'n
roll came into being.
dB
DeserTBoB
>I sympathize with you on the perfect pitch. Relative pitch is so much more
>useful. <snip>
Indeed it is! Perfect pitch, as I say, is more a curse than it is
useful, especially these days with accurate frequency standards within
almost anyone's reach. It drives me nuts to play a piano still tuned
down to 435, but after awhile, I'll acclimate to it. Then going right
to something tuned to 440 causes the same irritation for awhile. Long
term, though, I don't need a tuner to tune anything. I can usually
set the tuning at C or E or A by ear and usually be within a few
cents, which is pretty damned good. For temperament, though, I still
have to count and time beats.
dB
Yodedude2
>set the tuning at C or E or A by ear and usually be within a few
>cents, which is pretty damned good.
Extraordinary, really.
For temperament, though, I still
>have to count and time beats.
>
>dB
>
How does listening to non-tempered stuff, such as Switched-On Bach, affect you?
later, ron
DeserTBoB
>Extraordinary, really. <snip>
Trust me...it's a curse.
dB
tripping...@yahoo.com
twice that Wollensuk...
those are the facts...
current market value RIGHT NOW, Akai quad beats Wollensuk quad, value 2
to 1
You do the math...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5732288634&ss...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5737473218&ss...
DesertBob Jr.
job...right daddy ??
8 tracker from hell Jr.
again and losing another flame war, get with it ! "your" calling
trippin' stupid yet are mis-spelling words while doing it- "your"
disgracing our family name and making yourself look like as ass !
but i still luv you dad !
DeserTBoB
<coltbla...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>daddy, you spelled <snip>
Kill file....FOOMP!
Bgaswoodie
Why not just talk to him and try to get him to see that he should talk to you
first, before he posts on the internet?
Bgas
DeserTBoB wrote:
>Kill file....FOOMP! <
DesertBob Jr.
always take his Paxil then this happens again
tripping...@yahoo.com
Well you climbed out on a branch, and you need to explain this one DB,
how come this Wollie 8055 ended with NO BIDS AT ALL just yesterday ??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5739183321&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
I'd wager cuz it's a POS and has so much wow/flutter no one wants
it-just like the one I tried once, and just like ALL Wollies were since
day 1 new. The only Wollensak worth buying is the 8050 cuz it has an
AC motor- and they all sound INFERIOR to an Akai.
Take some time and explain that- without the liberal dem littany of
profanity and whining consumerism complaints...
DeserTBoB
>How does listening to non-tempered stuff, such as Switched-On Bach, affect you?
> later, ron <snip>
Obsolete temperaments on fixed intonation instruments drives me NUTS.
"Switched On Bach" was done by Walter/Wendy Carlos on a Moog, tuned to
Equal Temperament. There are many accepted temperament from the
Baroque Era, all of them having one disadvantage over another. The
fact that all my life I've played and listened to Equal Temperament
makes a harpsichord tuned to Kinburger or a "retro" Baroque organ
tuned to Mean Temperament just drive my ears crazy!
dB
DesertBob Jr.
Yodedude2
>"Switched On Bach" was done by Walter/Wendy Carlos on a Moog, tuned to
>Equal Temperament.
Ah yes, but it was my understanding that he/she didn't use fixed intonation;
the Moog was set up to change temperament with each key change in the score.
Should sound okay, right? It didn't make much difference to my ears, but I can
hear beating notes and 'out-of-tuneness' on a properly-tuned and set-up guitar
at times. that is why I'm also interested in hearing more about the Buzz
Feitien (sp?) tuning system. Buzz has developed a different tempered tuning
set-up for guitar that helps the intonation of fretted notes. Gonna listen to
my quad Wollie today and like it, ron
DeserTBoB
>Ah yes, but it was my understanding that he/she didn't use fixed intonation;
>the Moog was set up to change temperament with each key change in the score. <snip>
Bach hardly even did changes of key signature in the middle of a
piece. The Mean Temperament of the era wouldn't allow it, which is
why he vigorously promoted the new "Well Temperament" with his "Well
Temepered Klavier" pieces, thus proving that a move away from Mean
Temperament (and, as it turned out, toward Equal) allowed for the use
of the use of modulation, a compositional tool explored energetically
in the Romantic Era.
>but I can
>hear beating notes and 'out-of-tuneness' on a properly-tuned and set-up guitar
>at times. <snip>
Normal when tuned properly and set up for Equal Temperament. In ET,
fifths are slightly narrowed and fourths are more aggressively sharped
which provides some "sourness," but also allows for easy modulation
from key to key.
> that is why I'm also interested in hearing more about the Buzz
>Feitien (sp?) tuning system. Buzz has developed a different tempered tuning
>set-up for guitar that helps the intonation of fretted notes. <snip>
Not familiar. Alternative tunings for guitar are a favorite pasttime,
it seems.
dB
Bluemuse
>Feitien (sp?) tuning system. Buzz has developed a different tempered tuning
>set-up for guitar that helps the intonation of fretted notes. <snip>
Not familiar. Alternative tunings for guitar are a favorite pasttime,
it seems.
>>
The Feiten system isn't alternative tuning, but rather has something to do with
changing the position of the nut for certain of the strings, and I believe the
bridge placement as well. So it's a change of effective string length at both
ends (for some strings only) while leaving the frets where they are. I've not
looked into it very much, but have heard both positive and negative things
about it. The fact that it hasn't really taken off leads me to wonder if it's
more trouble than it's worth.
DeserTBoB
>The Feiten system isn't alternative tuning, but rather has something to do with
>changing the position of the nut for certain of the strings, and I believe the
>bridge placement as well. So it's a change of effective string length at both
>ends (for some strings only) while leaving the frets where they are. <snip>
...and what, praytell, is that supposed to do, exactly? If you vary
the bridge and/or nut, you vary the vibrating length of the string,
which simply means you tighten the string to bring it right back up to
pitch again...thus accomplishing nothing. AFAIK, all modern fretted
instruments are laid out in Equal Temperament (although I'd say that
less than about 10% of their players understand that concept) and thus
can modulate from key to key without significant "sourness" associated
with mean temperaments, such as those found in the baroque. It is, in
a way, a fixed intonation instrument like a piano, harpsichord pipe
organ and so on, although pitch can be "bent" by the player (whammy
bar, anyone?) unlike the string family, which is a free intonation
group of instruments, as is the human voice.
Most string players play close to just temperament when it comes to
closely grouped notes; thus, although the music may modulate from key
to key (such as in any orchestral work after the close of the Baroque
Era) the player simply adjusts to the new key and plays more-or-less
"perfect" thirds, fourths and fifths from the tonic of that key.
Symphony grade players, of course, know when and when NOT to do this,
and a healthy vibrato covers many sins.
dB
winnard
"DeserTBoB" <des...@rglobal.net> wrote in message
news:isq1t0tmb733t46ls...@4ax.com...
> On 28 Dec 2004 04:37:16 GMT, blue...@aol.com (Bluemuse) wrote:
>
> >The Feiten system isn't alternative tuning, but rather has something to
do with
> >changing the position of the nut for certain of the strings, and I
believe the
> >bridge placement as well. So it's a change of effective string length at
both
> >ends (for some strings only) while leaving the frets where they are.
<snip>
>
> ...and what, praytell, is that supposed to do, exactly?
I played a Les Paul with this tuning mod and it was perfect all up and down
the fretboard.
I'm going to have my Les Paul retrofitted one of these days, I just can't
stand to be away from it for very long, and worry about it sitting at the
shop all cold and lonely.
winnard
Yodedude2
>
Thanks for the link, Winnard. So, Buzz seems to claim that his tuning system
is more 'even-tempered' than the normal guitar tuning and intonation system.
There are some heavy hitters on that endorsee list, including a couple of bass
players (Stu Hamm and Dave Holland). Very interesting! later, ron
Bluemuse
can't seem to tune to the same note regardless, that something like BFTS isn't
going to help them. But assuming the players do indeed have the ability to
tune, what about instances when not everyone in the band adopts the system?
Hmmm.
DeserTBoB
>I wonder how well it works in a band situation? I've seen enough bands that
>can't seem to tune to the same note regardless, that something like BFTS isn't
>going to help them. But assuming the players do indeed have the ability to
>tune, what about instances when not everyone in the band adopts the system? <snip>
Musical ignorance is the culprit here. All modern guitars (of any
quality, at least) are fretted for Equal Temperament. In my
experience over the years, about 90% of the gee-tawr players out there
have no clue as to the concept of temperament. I'd also estimate that
75% have no clue as to that concert pitch is.
dB
winnard
As for my playing, I don't hold a chord long enough to notice it's out
of tune. If I'm not bending the strings two steps, I'm not happy 8^)
winnard