How to protect yourself against false Christian teachers
::: veralein :::
The best way to protect yourself against false Christian teachers is to
know better! Get informed in an Alpha Course, for example - they are
offered at many serious churches who have Jesus in the middle of their
actions, and who believe that the whole Bible is true and God's Word.
Alpha Courses are not denominational, yet teach a clear Gospel. If you
are interested, go to http://alpha.org/default.asp, or use the last link
in my sig below. You will maybe find a church near you that offers these
courses in which you learn the bases of Christianity and get to know
some of us Christians and have fellowship together with us (and a nice
dinner on all of the meetings, anyway).
I recommend people to find a church at their home towns. I can recommend
these ones (you can find a lot of faithful Christians there):
- the Baptists
- the Methodists
- the Anglicans
- the Pentecostals
- the Roman Catholics
- the Lutherans
- most Free Evangelicals
- the Coptic Orthodox
- several others
If you are not sure about which church to go to, write me an e-mail, and
please, be very, careful to join a group if you have doubts, especially
if you met them here in the usenet or internet. It is a matter of taste
which church one should go to - so just try them all out. If a church
does not open the doors for visitors, you should forget about them.
Christians love to have guests! They are not ashamed of what they teach.
A church that tells you to do works instead of accepting God's grace is
not to be recommended. There are many good things to be found in all the
denominations mentioned. Like people are not perfect, churches are not,
either. I am sure you can also go to the Sunday meetings to listen to
great sermons if you like that better than an Alpha Course. But please
do not only
judge about us Christians from what you see in the usenet, because
people like "Michael Christ", "St Dog the Wet" AKA "Oldwetdog" AKA
"Glenn McClary" bring strife with their false teaching. The Christians
are in one accord - but so many abuse Jesus Christ's name to look more
serious.
This is some information on Alpha Courses:
Alpha Courses - Come and see!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alpha Courses are an excellent chance to get to know more about God. I
have accompanied two of them myself here in Germany. They include
everything that Jesus taught us how to teach His Word.
People are invited to come and see, and to have fellowship. Here in
Germany the Alpha Course evening starts with a nice dinner together. Yum
yum...
Faith comes from the Word of God!
After the dinner, the pastor speaks about what the Christian faith is
all about.
After a smaller coffee/tea break with biscuits the people meet in
smaller discussion groups, and there they can ask about all that is on
their heart.
Alpha Courses are not bound to a special denomination. Be wise and take
this chance to get answers you might have about the sense of your life.
Or do you know already?
The Alpha Courses are accepted by all the major Christian churches, so
please do not listen to the wolves who might howl when they see you
going there. In the end it is your life, and you really should clear the
burning questions you have about God and the sense of your life
somewhere face to face. And it really matters where you will spend
eternity, do you not think so?
Alpha Courses are really a great chance to get answers. I recommend
them!
If you might be interested in joining one, have a look at this link:
That is the Christian way... Come and see yourself before you deny or
accept what you do not really know.
Come and see!
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
John 3:16-17 WEB For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and
only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have
eternal life.
For God didn't send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that
the world should be saved through him.
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life.
No one comes to the Father, except through me.
If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.
From now on, you know him, and have seen him."
(John 14:6-7 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Without controversy, the mystery of godliness is great:
God was revealed in the flesh,
Justified in the spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
And received up in glory.
(1Timothy 3:16 WEB)
> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
After eight days again his disciples were inside, and Thomas was with
them. Jesus came, the doors being locked, and stood in the midst, and
said, "Peace be to you." Then he said to Thomas, "Reach here your
finger, and see my hands. Reach here your hand, and put it into my side.
Don't be unbelieving, but believing." Thomas answered him, "My Lord and
my God!" Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen me, you have
believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed."
(John
20:26-29 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Matthew 7:13-15 WEB "Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate
and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who
enter in by it. (14) How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way
that leads to life! Few are those who find it. (15) "Beware of false
prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening
wolves.
> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
If you have questions, just e-mail me under
verasixATacc-growing-deeperDOTde - and replace the AT and the DOT with
the related symbols. I could also help you find a church. Do not be
shy - I would love that!
Please do not be deceived...
Hugs,
::: vera :::
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
A heart that hates is stricken and has no room for the Holy Spirit.
LORD Jesus Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father so that the
Holy Spirit would become our Great Counselor and Comforter. Please
look to GOD the Father, the Son, **and** the Holy Spirit to help you
remain in HIS infinite will.
It is our sinful nature to automatically judge the sinner for the sins
we observe. Our LORD has taught us how to counter this (Matthew 7:1-2).
It is our sinful nature that leads to a sick heart filled with hate
instead of the love that makes our heart spacious enough for the Holy
Spirit.
May GOD heal all of our hearts.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
Pastor Dave
<vera...@lycos.com> spake thusly:
>What can you do to protect yourself against false teachers?
Kill file Vera. :)
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
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"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
When Christianity becomes religion it leaves the heart hungry.
sensi
" ::: veralein :::" <vera...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:4jkbb4F...@individual.net...
> What can you do to protect yourself against false teachers?
sensi:
How come you don't include God outside of these organized religious
teachings?
Don't you think you're making God kind of small and fitting in Vera's hand?
Seriously....
sensi
>
Another thing..
If you believe in God in ALL things what are you trying to protect yourself
from?
Eric Fisher
The best way to protect yourself against false Christian teachers is to
I recommend people to find a church at their home towns. I can recommend
these ones (you can find a lot of faithful Christians there):
- the Baptists
- the Methodists
- the Anglicans
- the Pentecostals
- the Roman Catholics
- the Lutherans
- most Free Evangelicals
- the Coptic Orthodox
- several others
___________________________________
okay here's the deal. i have posted negative things about alpha groups,
so obviously vera and i disagree here. on the other hand, i would have
to say the folks who keep saying vera is a close-minded fundamentalist
are obviously off their rockers. the list of groups she is saying "you
can find a lot of faithful Christians there" is VERY wide. i guarantee
you there is not this "freedom of association" in the upper echelons of
all these groups. so those who paint her as a close-minded
fundamentalist deserved to be laughed at and not taken seriously.
Eric Fisher
(sensi) :
If you believe in God in ALL things what are you trying to protect
yourself from?
<><><>
you musta missed all the scriptures about those who lead the little ones
astray, those who attempt to deceive, etc? i kinda like the verse about
the millstone around the neck. it's a "concrete" warning to those of us
who teach, to keep the teaching right.
Michael Christ
>
> The best way to protect yourself against false Christian teachers is to
> know better! Get informed in an Alpha Course, for example - they are
> offered at many serious churches who have Jesus in the middle of their
> actions, and who believe that the whole Bible is true and God's Word.
What about the Holy Spirit?
Apparently, half the truth is still a lie.
Michael Christ
PS No need to thank me, Vera. :-).
Michael Christ
"sensi" <sensi...@home.net> wrote in message
news:qv-dnTxuHLsWykjZ...@pghconnect.com...
>
> " ::: veralein :::" <vera...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:4jkbb4F...@individual.net...
>> What can you do to protect yourself against false teachers?
>>
sensi:
> Another thing..
> If you believe in God in ALL things what are you trying to protect
> yourself from?
This is not to get up Vera's nose, though I probably will anyway.
But that is a very very good point, Sensi.
Michael Christ
Ben Mitts
> " ::: veralein :::" <vera...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:4jkbb4F...@individual.net...
>
>>What can you do to protect yourself against false teachers?
>>
>
> sensi:
> Another thing..
> If you believe in God in ALL things what are you trying to protect yourself
> from?
>
The Word of God says we are to prepare
ourselves and against whom:
EPH 6:10-20
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.
11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand
firm against the schemes of the devil.
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the
rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this dark
ness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly
places.
13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able
to resist in the evil day and having done everything to stand firm.
14 Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH
and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
15 and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE
GOSPEL OF PEACE;
16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will
be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the
Spirit, which is the word of God.
18 With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and
with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and
petition for all the saints,
--
Peace!
Sincerely,
Ben mitts
"If God seems far away,... who moved"
"Feed your faith,.... Starve your doubts"
From The Word of God: And as Moses lifted up the serpent
in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted
up; that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life."
Similarly, God so loved the world, that He gave His only
begotten Son, that who ever believes in Him should not
perish, but Have eternal life. Another: God did not send
the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the
world should be saved through Him. He spoke elsewhere:
I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me
shall live, even if he dies, and everyone who lives and
believes in Me shall never die. Believe you this?
Therefore we may, as many will to do so: "But as many as
received Him, to them He gave the right to become child-
ren of God, even to those who believe in His name,"
(John 1:12)
Eric Fisher
Pastor Kutchie
You can start by asking your LORD to make you apologise for all the
vicious bile you constantly direct at those who try to help you see the
error of your ways.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 21:54:11 +0200, " ::: veralein :::"
> <vera...@lycos.com> spake thusly:
>
>
> >What can you do to protect yourself against false teachers?
>
> Kill file Vera. :)
A heart that hates is a heart that is stricken.
May GOD heal your heart, dear brother Dave.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Athanasius
>these ones (you can find a lot of faithful Christians there):
>
>- the Baptists
>- the Methodists
>- the Anglicans
>- the Pentecostals
>- the Roman Catholics
>- the Lutherans
>- most Free Evangelicals
>- the Coptic Orthodox
God bless you Vera.
Peace and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you always.
Athanasius, dcn_ath...@REMOVEyahoo.com.au
http://www.ourchurch.com/member/a/Aus_Orthodox/
"If the world is against Athanasius then Athanasius is against
the world." St Athanasius the Apostolic, 20th Patriarch of Alexandria.
sensi
"Eric Fisher" <ericf...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9267-44D...@storefull-3213.bay.webtv.net...
sensi:
Those are all man-made religious institutions.I want to know why God has to
be put in an institution before we can begin to know and trust him?
Evidently what she's saying is some institutions are better than others at
keeping God happy.
sensi
"Eric Fisher" <ericf...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9267-44D...@storefull-3213.bay.webtv.net...
>
No I didn't miss it... Teaching about love and all of it's attitributes
should not be so heavy that you have to carry on like it's separated &
divided.
::: veralein :::
sensi <sensi...@home.net> typed:
No, what I am saying is that there are some people who are false
teachers who want to lead others into the pit. Belonging to a church
that asks for God's will is a good protection against false teachers,
but also a protection to become one oneself. Most Christian loners are
in danger of that, and most have really evolved some teaching outside of
God's will. Teachers have more responsibility than others, so teaching
others should be in one accord with God's will, and not be something
unique - that is just that they want to have it their way. They have not
understood that Christian sheep belong to a flock. The image of sheep
was not chosen accidentally by Jesus. So one's individual faith may
glorify oneself - but not God. God's Children are a big family of
believers with just one teacher, namely Jesus. We as sheep are to follow
Him. He shows us the way - He IS the way. So you see, the way matters
much, and not all ways will lead one to God. It is a narrow path to
Heaven. We are to humble ourselves to obedience to the will of God and
confess we are sinners, not boast how good we think we are already.
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
John 14:6-7 WEB Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the
life. No one comes to the Father, except through me. If you had known
me, you would have known my Father also. From now on, you know him, and
have seen him."
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Pastor Dave
<vera...@lycos.com> spake thusly:
>No, what I am saying is that there are some people who are false
>teachers who want to lead others into the pit. Belonging to a church
>that asks for God's will is a good protection against false teachers,
You recommended the Roman Catholic Church. How does that
church fall into that category?
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
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<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
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\
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"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
Sleep peacefully, God is awake.
::: veralein :::
Pastor Dave <_-anania...@tampabay.rr.com> typed:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 15:07:38 +0200, " ::: veralein :::"
> <vera...@lycos.com> spake thusly:
>
>
>> No, what I am saying is that there are some people who are false
>> teachers who want to lead others into the pit. Belonging to a church
>> that asks for God's will is a good protection against false teachers,
>
> You recommended the Roman Catholic Church. How does that
> church fall into that category?
They confess - like the others I mentioned:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.
"...whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead."
Amen, Dave?
As little as you, "Pastor" Dave, can pray the Lord's Prayer, you might
be able to confess the above. And that makes you and your followers the
outsiders. You are lost where you are. Try to come back soon if you want
to see Heaven.
*The word "catholic" does not mean "Roman Catholic" but the church of
Jesus Christ throughout this world
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the
sheep. (John 10:11 WEB)
www.pulpitfire.org
The only thing is, Galatians 1:8-9 anathematizes any group that adds
personal merits to faith in Christ's death and resurrection, as a term
of salvation. Since there is a group that refers to themselves as
Catholic (although not Roman Catholic), and since they teach salvation
through personal merits, in addition to faith in Christ, these
"Catholics" proclaim a false gospel that will result in eternal
damnation.
> ::: vera :::
>
>><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the
>sheep. (John 10:11 WEB)
><>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> --
> ___________________________________________________
> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
> ::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
> ::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
>
>
=============================================
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this finished work alone for salvation (1 Cor. 15:1-3;
Eph. 2:8-10).
=============================================
• Daily devotionals
• Bible questions and answers
• Community forum
• Live chatting
• Free at www.pulpitfire.org
=============================================
::: veralein :::
Michael Christ <michaelm...@bigpond.com> typed:
> " ::: veralein :::" <vera...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:4jkbb4F...@individual.net...
>> What can you do to protect yourself against false teachers?
>>
>> The best way to protect yourself against false Christian teachers is
>> to know better! Get informed in an Alpha Course, for example - they
>> are offered at many serious churches who have Jesus in the middle of
>> their actions, and who believe that the whole Bible is true and
>> God's Word.
>
> What about the Holy Spirit?
The Holy Spirit is one person of the triune God. He is the acting force
of God on earth - but there are other forces active as well, and not
every spirit is of God. There are ways to discern them, however. One of
them is that the Holy Spirit will always be in accordance with the Holy
Bible - so it IS important to know what it says. The other is if people
have the gift of discernment. You see, Christians can be deceived, but
not for long. And those who are lacking discernment should join a church
where there are people who can discern the spirits. You can also discern
the spirits by their fruit. So the fruit of those who started that flame
war in 2003/04 was a newsgroup that had come down to zero Spirit while
no Christians chose to stay longer than a few weeks.
I am not really sure who you are, Michael Christ... All I know is that
you are on a wrong trip, and you are tearing others in, too. You are not
what you are pretending to be. I have not made up my mind about you so
far if you are just recruiting, deluded, a Liberal troll or a Satanist.
Give me a hint.
> Apparently, half the truth is still a lie.
That is really so true.
> Michael Christ
>
> PS No need to thank me, Vera. :-).
That is also true.
::: veralein :::
Athanasius <dcn_ath...@REMOVEyahoo.com.au> typed:
> On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 21:54:11 +0200, " ::: veralein :::"
> <vera...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>> these ones (you can find a lot of faithful Christians there):
>>
>> - the Baptists
>> - the Methodists
>> - the Anglicans
>> - the Pentecostals
>> - the Roman Catholics
>> - the Lutherans
>> - most Free Evangelicals
>> - the Coptic Orthodox
>
> God bless you Vera.
>
> Peace and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you always.
God bless you, too, Athanasius.
May God keep you and your church.
> Athanasius, dcn_ath...@REMOVEyahoo.com.au
> http://www.ourchurch.com/member/a/Aus_Orthodox/
> "If the world is against Athanasius then Athanasius is against
> the world." St Athanasius the Apostolic, 20th Patriarch of Alexandria.
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
"I am the door. If anyone enters in by me, he will be saved, and will go
in and go out, and will find pasture." (John 10:9 WEB)
::: veralein :::
www.pulpitfire.org <pulpi...@gmail.com> typed:
I do not think so. There is also much good in the Roman Catholic Church,
and there is also bad in the others and not only good. There is no
perfect church like there is no perfect human. I have met Christian
believers who are members there and Spirit filled. I do not think they
are lost. In fact, I do believe we are saved by grace, but we should not
forget what Jesus taught us in Matthew 25:32-46. We should know that we
are saved by His grace, yet we should help the needy - this is often
confused with the longing to be saved by acts. You are right, the
motivation to help others should always be love and gratefulness. Nobody
will be saved by works. Yet our faith in God shows in the actions we are
doing. There is no faith that would not produce works. Maybe there are
black sheep in the Roman Catholic Church who believe they can be
justified by works, but there are some in the other churches as well. So
who of us should judge the others? We will be judged with the same
measure.
Or do you really know of a perfect church?
The seven assemblies in Revelation, do you remember? There was none that
was perfect...
But we can try, we can all try. I mean the commandment to love one's
neighbour cannot be effective without concrete actions. Maybe the RCC
overestimates actions, but others might underestimate them. It is "Ora
et Labora". I do not think that this is wrong.
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
All this have I seen in my days of vanity: there is a righteous man who
perishes in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man who lives long
in his evil-doing. Don't be overly righteous, neither make yourself
overly wise. Why should you destroy yourself? Don't be too wicked,
neither be foolish. Why should you die before your time? It is good that
you should take hold of this. Yes, also from that don't withdraw your
hand; for he who fears God will come forth from them all. Wisdom is a
strength to the wise man more than ten rulers who are in a city. Surely
there is not a righteous man on earth, who does good and doesn't sin.
(Ecclesiastes 7:15-20 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
> Rely on this finished work alone for salvation (1 Cor. 15:1-3;
> Eph. 2:8-10).
> =============================================
> . Daily devotionals
> . Bible questions and answers
> . Community forum
> . Live chatting
> . Free at www.pulpitfire.org
> =============================================
Be blessed,
::: vera :::
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
<snip>
> > A heart that hates is stricken and has no room for the Holy Spirit.
> >
> > LORD Jesus Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father so that the
> > Holy Spirit would become our Great Counselor and Comforter. Please
> > look to GOD the Father, the Son, **and** the Holy Spirit to help you
> > remain in HIS infinite will.
> >
> > It is our sinful nature to automatically judge the sinner for the sins
> > we observe. Our LORD has taught us how to counter this (Matthew 7:1-2).
> > It is our sinful nature that leads to a sick heart filled with hate
> > instead of the love that makes our heart spacious enough for the Holy
> > Spirit.
> >
> > May GOD heal all of our hearts.
>
> You can start by asking your LORD to make you apologise for all the
> vicious bile you constantly direct at those who try to help you see the
> error of your ways.
Sorry the truth bothers you so terribly. Please forgive all my
iniquities.
May GOD heal your heart, dear neighbor.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Michael leaving the LORD's side to give you a hint as to who he is
would not be wise.
In truth we know who he is just as we know ourselves.
We are sinners.
Without the LORD, we would simply end up hurting each other.
May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear sister Vera.
GentleOwlSpirit
"Ben Mitts" <benm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:44D588C3...@sbcglobal.net...
Pastor Dave
<vera...@lycos.com> spake thusly:
They also confess that Mary is without sin and that we are to
obey the Pope.
Again I ask... You recommended the Roman Catholic Church.
How does that church fall into the category of a good church?
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
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"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
The church does not determine what Scripture teaches;
Scripture determines what the church teaches.
If a tradition or experience is contrary to the
teachings of Scripture, it is not of the Lord.
Reason is a significant authority. But it too,
must be placed under the dominion of Scripture.
In other words, we cannot seek Biblical truths,
while questioning the authority of the Bible.
Pastor Kutchie
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Atheist neighbor wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > > A heart that hates is stricken and has no room for the Holy Spirit.
> > >
> > > LORD Jesus Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father so that the
> > > Holy Spirit would become our Great Counselor and Comforter. Please
> > > look to GOD the Father, the Son, **and** the Holy Spirit to help you
> > > remain in HIS infinite will.
> > >
> > > It is our sinful nature to automatically judge the sinner for the sins
> > > we observe. Our LORD has taught us how to counter this (Matthew 7:1-2).
> > > It is our sinful nature that leads to a sick heart filled with hate
> > > instead of the love that makes our heart spacious enough for the Holy
> > > Spirit.
> > >
> > > May GOD heal all of our hearts.
> >
> > You can start by asking your LORD to make you apologise for all the
> > vicious bile you constantly direct at those who try to help you see the
> > error of your ways.
>
> Sorry the truth bothers you so terribly. Please forgive all my
> iniquities.
>
Free Lunch
"Pastor Kutchie" <use...@heathens.org.uk> wrote in
<1154886930....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>:
Yea, Andy is really proud of his dishonesty and iniquitous behavior.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Without the LORD, your opinion is still meaningless (Ecclesiastes).
sensi
sensi:
Truthfully......I don't think anyone is "trying" to lead anyone in a pit,
consciously. The object is to rise out of the pit and to do that we need
encouragment instead of fear fed doctrine.
Belonging to a church
> that asks for God's will is a good protection against false teachers, but
> also a protection to become one oneself. Most Christian loners are in
> danger of that, and most have really evolved some teaching outside of
> God's will.
sensi:
I don't know of any person who doesn't "learn" the basic rules of
life.....If you lie, cheat or steal you will pay for it. That is simple. It
is God's will that we do good, be good and encourage others through example.
Teachers have more responsibility than others, so teaching
> others should be in one accord with God's will, and not be something
> unique - that is just that they want to have it their way.
sensi:
You're doing it your way, Vera. You pay for your example of *living.* The
reap what you sow law of Christ includes *everybody.* Encouraging people to
sow good thoughts and sound ideas is a far better approach then encouraging
them to join a church and being forced to follow the "will" of said church
and then pretending it is God's will does not settle well with everyday
normal life.
It's like life is separate from the church....or the church tries to
separate people from other people and I don't think that encourages love thy
neighbor... It sets up barriers to who you can associate with and you start
teaching people to be separate and I for one don't like the *idea* that in
order to be protected you have to join a fear fed institution who does teach
separation.
They have not
> understood that Christian sheep belong to a flock.
sensi:
I understand that there might be christian sheep if you want to use that
metaphor but remember too that you are part goat, part lion, part wolf, part
sparrow, etc. .. You are not 100% the meek little lamb who follows every
beck and call of God.. Not *all your* thoughts belong in the same flock as
Christ thoughts belonged in.
You are still liable for your thoughts and actions the same as everyone else
and......you still have to *learn* the *value* of thoughts and actions
whether you title yourself as the perfect little christian or not.
The image of sheep
> was not chosen accidentally by Jesus.
sensi:
Look at a sheep.... They're wooly...( sometimes they can't see for the wool
in their eyes. ..they can't always hear for the wool is thick in their ears,
they eat from the field, sometimes it's grain (grains of truth) sometimes
it's weeds, sometimes they'll eat wheat and don't know the difference from
the wheat and the chaff. They wander off and don't know what's ahead or
behind them... All the same as "thoughts."
Our thoughts stray.....we'll eat anything just to be fed.
When Jesus was speaking of a little flock do you think he was speaking of
your thoughts or his own thoughts? When one thought goes astray do you not
think he couldn't bring that one thought back into his being and change it
into something godly?
You may not like to think you have to responsible for your "thoughts" and
actions but I'm here to tell you that you are, the same as Jesus was for
his....
So one's individual faith may
> glorify oneself - but not God. God's Children are a big family of
> believers with just one teacher, namely Jesus. We as sheep are to follow
> Him. He shows us the way - He IS the way.
sensi:
If HE is the way.....then their are certain ways to follow Him..I'm talking
*thoughts and actions* not church going and singing hymns. I say believe in
the goodness of God and all will be well. Teach people to be stewards of
their fields (life) and feed their flock grains of truth. (thoughts) and the
actions following will be godly.....
So you see, the way matters
> much, and not all ways will lead one to God. It is a narrow path to
> Heaven.
sensi:
It's in the heart..... It's not on Fourth street, turn left at the stop
light, park your car, walk into baptist church, sing song, listen to sermon,
pray for all the sinners, go home take roast out of oven and you're well on
your way to heaven...
I'm not against church....as long as it "teaches" us to listen to our
thoughts, take them serious, beat them if need be, treasure them if need be
but above all "listen." within.
We are to humble ourselves to obedience to the will of God and
> confess we are sinners, not boast how good we think we are already.
sensi:
First thing we gotta learn to conquer that with is to "listen and observe
our own mind, heart and soul, the same as Jesus did.....
I'm not going to let someone lead me into a pit..I promise that!
sensi
"Pastor Dave" <_-anania...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:rv8cd25l86k7jkc0b...@4ax.com...
It's not any different than any other church in a building trying to teach
doctrine. . You may disagree with their doctrine but when it comes down to
it- it's not about doctrine.
www.pulpitfire.org
wrote:
>sensi:
>It's not any different than any other church in a building trying to teach
>doctrine. . You may disagree with their doctrine but when it comes down to
>it- it's not about doctrine.
Read Galatians 1:8-9, then read the entire book of Galatians
carefully. Ask yourself, is a "gospel" that adds the term of personal
merits to that of faith in Christ alone a gospel which results in
eternal damnation or not? Then find out whether or not the Catholic
church teaches that personal merits contribute to the work of Christ
in their salvation. If you still come to the conclusion there's
nothing wrong with Catholicism, then I'd say you are in danger of
hell-fire for failing to discern that you cannot add personal merits
to the finished work of Christ, as a term of salvation, and still have
a "gospel" which does not result in eternal damnation.
=============================================
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this finished work alone for salvation (1 Cor. 15:1-3;
Eph. 2:8-10).
=============================================
Pastor Dave
>> They also confess that Mary is without sin and that we are to
>> obey the Pope.
>>
>> Again I ask... You recommended the Roman Catholic Church.
>> How does that church fall into the category of a good church?
>
> sensi:
>It's not any different than any other church in a building trying to teach
>doctrine. . You may disagree with their doctrine but when it comes down to
>it- it's not about doctrine.
Satan is the one to worship and we all need to kneel to him.
That is a doctrine. Does that qualify as a "good church"?
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
/
/
<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
\
\
O
"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
"Paleontologists have paid an enormous price for
Darwin's argument. We fancy ourselves as the only true
students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored
account of evolution by natural selection we view our
data as so bad that we almost never see the very
process we profess to study. ...The history of most
fossil species includes two features particularly
inconsistent with gradualism: 1. Stasis. Most species
exhibit no directional change during their tenure on
earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much
the same as when they disappear; morphological change I
usually limited and directionless. 2. Sudden
appearance. In any local area, a species does not
arise gradually by the steady transformation of its
ancestors; it appears all at once and 'fully formed.'"
(Gould, Stephen J. The Panda's Thumb, 1980, p. 181-182)
Jeff
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
news:1154890956....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<...>
> Without the LORD, your opinion is still meaningless (Ecclesiastes).
Can you provide the chapter and verse for this in Ecclesiastes?
Thanks.
Jeff
sensi
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 14:16:52 -0500, "sensi" <sensi...@home.net>
> spake thusly:
>
>
>>> They also confess that Mary is without sin and that we are to
>>> obey the Pope.
>>>
>>> Again I ask... You recommended the Roman Catholic Church.
>>> How does that church fall into the category of a good church?
>>
>> sensi:
>>It's not any different than any other church in a building trying to teach
>>doctrine. . You may disagree with their doctrine but when it comes down to
>>it- it's not about doctrine.
>
> Satan is the one to worship and we all need to kneel to him.
>
> That is a doctrine. Does that qualify as a "good church"?
sensi:
Huh? There are many doctrines that speak of a satan as an individual being
who steals your mind and plants seeds of doubt and fear but I rather think
it's not anyone or anything other than our own paranoia mounting up with
fear that creates this tremendous desire to look *down* on faith, hope and
love. I don't need a doctrine and I don't need someone to twist a doctrine
and I don't have a need to put doctrine in any order to satisfy any other
religious bodied person. I just need to be godly and do what is right in my
heart, mind and soul...... Get it? I dont' care about any church
doctrine....I care about people!
sensi
"www.pulpitfire.org" <pulpi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rbgcd29ld622q47sg...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 14:16:52 -0500, "sensi" <sensi...@home.net>
> wrote:
>
>>sensi:
>>It's not any different than any other church in a building trying to teach
>>doctrine. . You may disagree with their doctrine but when it comes down to
>>it- it's not about doctrine.
>
>
> Read Galatians 1:8-9, then read the entire book of Galatians
> carefully. Ask yourself, is a "gospel" that adds the term of personal
> merits to that of faith in Christ alone a gospel which results in
> eternal damnation or not? Then find out whether or not the Catholic
> church teaches that personal merits contribute to the work of Christ
> in their salvation. If you still come to the conclusion there's
> nothing wrong with Catholicism, then I'd say you are in danger of
> hell-fire for failing to discern that you cannot add personal merits
> to the finished work of Christ, as a term of salvation, and still have
> a "gospel" which does not result in eternal damnation.
sensi:
You know life is like that box of chocolates Forrest Gump was talking about.
If you pick a dark chocolate and it's filled with doctrine of eternal
dam-nation and you keep eating the same chocolate over and over I suppose
you do become what you eat and you'll sit and study dam-nation like there is
nothing else to fill your gut.You might get so hung up on dark chocolates
that you'd never dream of trying a different one.
I for one do think that if God were going to punish you for eternal
damnation for something you didn't do but Christ did for you he'd still do
it in a loving way...
To me the gospel is the whole box of chocolates
God loves to give chocolates but don't do like Cain did and get stuck on
just one idea.
Okay throw the box at me.....I realize I'm not speaking your language.
Love,
sensi
>
> =============================================
> Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
> Rely on this finished work alone for salvation (1 Cor. 15:1-3;
> Eph. 2:8-10).
> =============================================
Pastor Kutchie
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Atheist neighbor wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Atheist neighbor wrote:
> > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > > A heart that hates is stricken and has no room for the Holy Spirit.
> > > > >
> > > > > LORD Jesus Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father so that the
> > > > > Holy Spirit would become our Great Counselor and Comforter. Please
> > > > > look to GOD the Father, the Son, **and** the Holy Spirit to help you
> > > > > remain in HIS infinite will.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is our sinful nature to automatically judge the sinner for the sins
> > > > > we observe. Our LORD has taught us how to counter this (Matthew 7:1-2).
> > > > > It is our sinful nature that leads to a sick heart filled with hate
> > > > > instead of the love that makes our heart spacious enough for the Holy
> > > > > Spirit.
> > > > >
> > > > > May GOD heal all of our hearts.
> > > >
> > > > You can start by asking your LORD to make you apologise for all the
> > > > vicious bile you constantly direct at those who try to help you see the
> > > > error of your ways.
> > >
> > > Sorry the truth bothers you so terribly. Please forgive all my
> > > iniquities.
> > >
> > That is not an apology, that is arrogance.
>
> Without the LORD, your opinion is still meaningless (Ecclesiastes).
>
Without the alleged LORD, my opinions are a lot more meaningful,
actually, in any case, the above was not my opinion, it is a fact,
reinforced by your above comment.
What follows is an advisory remark: You are making yourself look like a
simpleton, a spoiled brat and an almost criminally nasty piece of work.
That's not my view, it is objectively how you will be seen by any sane
person, and that will include most Christians, even born-again ones. I
do know a few, and will seek their opinion if you like, but I already
know what they will say as they are a lot more well adjusted than you
are.
Pastor Kutchie
We've done this one. It's his alleged synopsis of the whole book and
it's bollocks.
yankands...@yahoo.com
world on 16th August will rock yoru socks.
If you were perplexed by DaVinci Code you will be spellbound by the
next one - which will be VERY adult in nature - A1 in fact, and only
available as an adult ebook.
Bet you can't wait in reality.
As to protecting yourself against false teachers - how do you know the
truth from fiction?
::: veralein ::: wrote:
> What can you do to protect yourself against false teachers?
>
> The best way to protect yourself against false Christian teachers is to
> know better! Get informed in an Alpha Course, for example - they are
> offered at many serious churches who have Jesus in the middle of their
> actions, and who believe that the whole Bible is true and God's Word.
> Alpha Courses are not denominational, yet teach a clear Gospel. If you
> are interested, go to http://alpha.org/default.asp, or use the last link
> in my sig below. You will maybe find a church near you that offers these
> courses in which you learn the bases of Christianity and get to know
> some of us Christians and have fellowship together with us (and a nice
> dinner on all of the meetings, anyway).
>
> I recommend people to find a church at their home towns. I can recommend
> these ones (you can find a lot of faithful Christians there):
>
> - the Baptists
> - the Methodists
> - the Anglicans
> - the Pentecostals
> - the Roman Catholics
> - the Lutherans
> - most Free Evangelicals
> - the Coptic Orthodox
> - several others
>
> Alpha Courses are not bound to a special denomination. Be wise and take
> this chance to get answers you might have about the sense of your life.
> Or do you know already?
>
> The Alpha Courses are accepted by all the major Christian churches, so
> please do not listen to the wolves who might howl when they see you
> going there. In the end it is your life, and you really should clear the
> burning questions you have about God and the sense of your life
> somewhere face to face. And it really matters where you will spend
> eternity, do you not think so?
>
> Alpha Courses are really a great chance to get answers. I recommend
> them!
>
> If you might be interested in joining one, have a look at this link:
>
> http://alpha.org/default.asp
>
> That is the Christian way... Come and see yourself before you deny or
> accept what you do not really know.
>
> Come and see!
>
> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> John 3:16-17 WEB For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and
> only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have
> eternal life.
> For God didn't send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that
> the world should be saved through him.
> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life.
> No one comes to the Father, except through me.
> If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.
> From now on, you know him, and have seen him."
> Hugs,
>
> ::: vera :::
Pastor Dave
spake thusly:
You didn't answer the question. Do you think a church that
states what i said above, qualifies as "a good church"?
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
/
/
<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
\
\
O
"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
"Wasn't there a time when the brightest minds in
the world believed that the world was flat? And
up until like what, 50 years ago, you all thought
the atom was the smallest thing, until you split
it open and this like, whole mess of crap came out.
Now, are you telling me that you are so unbelievably
arrogant that you can't admit that there's a teeny
tiny possibility that you could be wrong about this?"
- Phoebe from Friends, regarding evolution
tiger
::: veralein ::: wrote:
> In news:kdfBg.7437$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au,
> Michael Christ <michaelm...@bigpond.com> typed:
> > " ::: veralein :::" <vera...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> > news:4jkbb4F...@individual.net...
> >> What can you do to protect yourself against false teachers?
> >>
> >> The best way to protect yourself against false Christian teachers is
> >> to know better! Get informed in an Alpha Course, for example - they
> >> are offered at many serious churches who have Jesus in the middle of
> >> their actions, and who believe that the whole Bible is true and
> >> God's Word.
> >
> > What about the Holy Spirit?
>
> The Holy Spirit is one person of the triune God. He is the acting force
> of God on earth - but there are other forces active as well, and not
I don't describe the Holy Spirit this way because I don't know of any
scriptural support for it.
The JW are notorious in calling Him "God's active force"
http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/ .
Cheers.
rm
> ... There are ways to discern them, however. One of
sensi
I don't think they practice that I think it's a rumor and you're running
with it like it's a good story for the headline news..
Denis Loubet
> Atheist neighbor wrote:
>> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> > A heart that hates is stricken and has no room for the Holy Spirit.
>> >
>> > LORD Jesus Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father so that the
>> > Holy Spirit would become our Great Counselor and Comforter. Please
>> > look to GOD the Father, the Son, **and** the Holy Spirit to help you
>> > remain in HIS infinite will.
>> >
>> > It is our sinful nature to automatically judge the sinner for the sins
>> > we observe. Our LORD has taught us how to counter this (Matthew 7:1-2).
>> > It is our sinful nature that leads to a sick heart filled with hate
>> > instead of the love that makes our heart spacious enough for the Holy
>> > Spirit.
>> >
>> > May GOD heal all of our hearts.
>>
>> You can start by asking your LORD to make you apologise for all the
>> vicious bile you constantly direct at those who try to help you see the
>> error of your ways.
>
> Sorry the truth bothers you so terribly. Please forgive all my
> iniquities.
>
> May GOD heal your heart, dear neighbor.
Don't consider even for an instant that you might be wrong. It is the other
person that's wrong, and that's final, right?
--
Denis Loubet
dlo...@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
::: veralein :::
tiger <roym...@optusnet.com.au> typed:
>>>> veralein ::: wrote:
>> In news:kdfBg.7437$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au,
>> Michael Christ <michaelm...@bigpond.com> typed:
>>> " ::: veralein :::" <vera...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4jkbb4F...@individual.net...
>>>> What can you do to protect yourself against false teachers?
>>>>
>>>> The best way to protect yourself against false Christian teachers
>>>> is to know better! Get informed in an Alpha Course, for example -
>>>> they are offered at many serious churches who have Jesus in the
>>>> middle of their actions, and who believe that the whole Bible is
>>>> true and God's Word.
>>>
>>> What about the Holy Spirit?
>>
>> The Holy Spirit is one person of the triune God. He is the acting
>> force of God on earth - but there are other forces active as well,
>> and not every spirit is of God. ...
>
> I don't describe the Holy Spirit this way because I don't know of any
> scriptural support for it.
Oh, do you not?
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any
two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit,
of both joints and marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and
intentions of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke,
being moved by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:21 WEB)
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will
flow rivers of living water." (John 7:38 WEB)
>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is to your advantage that I go
away, for if I don't go away, the Counselor won't come to you. But if I
go, I will send him to you. When he has come, he will convict the world
about sin, about righteousness, and about judgment; about sin, because
they don't believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to my
Father, and you won't see me any more; about judgment, because the
prince of this world has been judged. (John 16:7-11 WEB)
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that
he may be with you forever, -- the Spirit of truth, whom the world can't
receive; for it doesn't see him, neither knows him. You know him, for he
lives with you, and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans. I will
come to you. (John 14:16-18 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Beloved, don't believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they
are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By
this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit who confesses that Jesus
Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit who doesn't
confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, and this
is the spirit of the antichrist, of whom you have heard that it comes.
Now it is in the world already. (1 John 4:1-3 WEB)
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any
two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit,
of both joints and marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and
intentions of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
To see what the Holy Spirit does, please see also
John 7:38, John 14:26, Acts 9:31, Romans 8:23, Romans 8:27, 1
Corinthians 12, 2Corinthians 3:5, 1 John 2:20, 27, Acts 1:8, Luke 1:35,
Mark 1:9-11, Luke 3:21-22, John 1:31-34, Luke 4:14-21, Isaiah 61:1-2,
Matthew 12:18, Matthew 12:22,28, Luke 4:18-21, Mark 1:12, Luke 4:1-13,
Acts 1:5,8, Acts 2:33, 1 Peter 1:12, Psalm 139:7.
If that is not enough, I am sure I can give you more Scripture that
speaks of the actions of the Holy Spirit on earth, and that we are to
discern the spirits.
> The JW are notorious in calling Him "God's active force"
> http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/ .
Really? See, they are not wrong on everything, and they might very well
say that water runs down as I say. Indeed, they are right on that, while
I disagree on many other things with them. But I also wrote "The Holy
Spirit is one person of the triune God." - and I pretty much doubt that
the JW see that alike.
A study on what the Holy Spirit is could help you, Roy.
> Cheers.
>
> rm
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Revelation 22:17 WEB The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" He who hears,
let him say, "Come!" He who is thirsty, let him come. He who desires,
let him take the water of life freely.
"Mark T"
> Those are all man-made religious institutions.I want to know why God has
> to be put in an institution before we can begin to know and trust him?
Because the church says so ... and they (men) make the rules..
> Evidently what she's saying is some institutions are better than others at
> keeping God happy.
The church says you keep God happy by paying the clergy more tithes ... in
cash!
--
"We're Christians! We're not supposed to think!" Fanny Wype (Nudist Colony
Of The Dead)
"All things are probable. Try to believe." - Mark 17:1
"Really! Try to believe even if it's bloody stupid and irrational." - Mark
17:2
"Why? Because I said so, that's why! Don't ask questions. Just
believe." - Mark 17:3
"Mark T"
> You know life is like that box of chocolates Forrest Gump was talking
> about.
If you are a fundamentalist Trew Kristyun life is like a box of laxatives.
"Mark T"
> The Word of God says
... nothing!
The bible is NOT the "word of God".
--
The Bible ...[is] ... a collection of human responses to God (very human,
some of them all too human), which we are at liberty to use in the process
of formulating our own individual, unique response to God. We don't do that
by imitating these responses slavishly. I mean God, if he exists, doesn't
want innumerable clones of the apostle Paul. He wants us to respond to him,
each of us in our own unique way. And we can use the Bible to do that, but
we don't do it by obeying it slavishly and blindly. - Peter Cameron
"Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 195
> EPH 6:10-20
Ephesians may not have been written by Paul. The jury is still out.
tiger
::: veralein ::: wrote:
> In news:1154901492.3...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com,
> tiger <roym...@optusnet.com.au> typed:
[snip]
> >>> What about the Holy Spirit?
> >>
> >> The Holy Spirit is one person of the triune God. He is the acting
> >> force of God on earth - but there are other forces active as well,
> >> and not every spirit is of God. ...
> >
> > I don't describe the Holy Spirit this way because I don't know of any
> > scriptural support for it.
>
> Oh, do you not?
>
> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any
> two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit,
> of both joints and marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and
> intentions of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12 WEB)
The 'word of God', here, refers to what was spoken by God (see verses
3, 4, 7 etc.). It doesn't refer specifically to the Holy Spirit, nor
to Christ as commonly understood.
> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke,
> being moved by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:21 WEB)
> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will
> flow rivers of living water." (John 7:38 WEB)
"The scripture" referred to is probably Prov18:4 which says nothing
about the Holy Spirit.
Jesus' discourse was given when water became the highpoint on the 8th
day the festival of Tabernacles.
He takes the opportunity to convey that God is the source of 'living
water' (Jer 2:13, 7:13, Eze 47:1, cf Joh 4:10).
I don't think there is any direct ascription to the Holy Spirit from
this passage.
> say that water runs down as I say. Indeed, they are right on that, ...
Absolutely not.
Because, as per your citations, the Holy Spirit is a Person Who works
for your benefit. Not an inanimate force personified as the JW will
tell us.
For this reason, I objected to the notion earlier this year that we
need to seek fresh refilling of the Holy Spirit as though we never get
enough.
Nowhere does the scriptures use terms like 'force' in regard to the
work of the Holy Spirit.
> ... while
> I disagree on many other things with them. But I also wrote "The Holy
> Spirit is one person of the triune God." - and I pretty much doubt that
> the JW see that alike.
Yep.
> A study on what the Holy Spirit is could help you, Roy.
No worries.
> > Cheers.
> >
> > rm
>
>
> ::: vera :::
>
> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> Revelation 22:17 WEB The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" He who hears,
> let him say, "Come!" He who is thirsty, let him come. He who desires,
> let him take the water of life freely.
> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
[snip]
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Asked and answered already as follows:
Ecclesiastes 1:1-12:14
> Thanks.
All thanks and praises belong to the LORD, Whom I love with all my
heart, soul, mind, and strength.
May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Jeff.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> news:1154882617.7...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Atheist neighbor wrote:
> >> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >> > A heart that hates is stricken and has no room for the Holy Spirit.
> >> >
> >> > LORD Jesus Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father so that the
> >> > Holy Spirit would become our Great Counselor and Comforter. Please
> >> > look to GOD the Father, the Son, **and** the Holy Spirit to help you
> >> > remain in HIS infinite will.
> >> >
> >> > It is our sinful nature to automatically judge the sinner for the sins
> >> > we observe. Our LORD has taught us how to counter this (Matthew 7:1-2).
> >> > It is our sinful nature that leads to a sick heart filled with hate
> >> > instead of the love that makes our heart spacious enough for the Holy
> >> > Spirit.
> >> >
> >> > May GOD heal all of our hearts.
> >>
> >> You can start by asking your LORD to make you apologise for all the
> >> vicious bile you constantly direct at those who try to help you see the
> >> error of your ways.
> >
> > Sorry the truth bothers you so terribly. Please forgive all my
> > iniquities.
> >
> > May GOD heal your heart, dear neighbor.
>
> Don't consider even for an instant that you might be wrong.
Actually, if I were always right, I would not need the guidance of the
Holy Spirit.
> It is the other person that's wrong, and that's final, right?
Depends on who is standing on the side of the truth, Who is LORD Jesus
Christ.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life... " -- LORD Jesus Christ.
May GOD heal your heart, dear neighbor Denis.
Michael Christ
> I am not really sure who you are, Michael Christ... All I know is that you
> are on a wrong trip, and you are tearing others in, too. You are not what
> you are pretending to be. I have not made up my mind about you so far if
> you are just recruiting, deluded, a Liberal troll or a Satanist. Give me a
> hint.
You cannot make up your mind about me because you do not recognise me.
But I recognise you.
Michael Christ
Jeff
"Pastor Kutchie" <use...@heathens.org.uk> wrote in message
news:1154895906.2...@n13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I see from Rev. Andrew's reply that you are correct on both counts.
Jeff
Mark K. Bilbo
<1154882617.7...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Sorry the truth bothers you so terribly.
Must bother you as you sure spend a hell of a lot time stomping it into
the ground...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
Kurt Gavin
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> Actually, if I were always right, I would not need the guidance of the
> Holy Spirit.
It guided you to being without hospital privileges or patients.
It guided you to being a chronic liar, your phony 40 day fast, for instance.
It will guide you to an eternity in hell. Then you will know what it is,
that is whispering in your ear that is so deaf to truth.
Poor Andrew.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew wrote:
>
> > Sorry the truth bothers you so terribly. Please forgive all my iniquities.
>
> the ground...
Yes my iniquities bother me. It is not I but my LORD who has stomped
my iniquities into the ground. Many thanks and praises to Christ Jesus
for suffering terribly and dying horribly on the cross in order to save
me from my deadly sins. Glory to HIM for rising on that fantastic
third day so than I can rise with HIM and be reborn of water and the
Holy Spirit as HIS creature.
Amen !
Laus Deo !
Marana tha !
May GOD heal your heart, dear neighbor Mark.
::: veralein :::
Michael Christ <michaelm...@bigpond.com> typed:
Bwaaaaahahahaha!
I know what you are not! But what are you?
Are you recruiting? - Yes.
Deluded? - Yes.
A Satanist? I do not think so. Your spirituality would not be sufficient
enough for that.
I would say you are a Liberal troll. Maybe - but I could be wrong. :-)
Yes, I must be wrong, because not even homosexuals accept you.
There is too much flesh around you to call you a "Mystic", though.
So what is left?
I think you are just a Bible basher for what reasons ever. Maybe you are
just an atheist who has pleasure in trolling Christians and recruiting
them. Are you a loner, or do you belong to a group, Michael?
Interesting thread...
> But I recognise you.
That is good, so be wise.
> Michael Christ
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Without controversy, the mystery of godliness is great: God was revealed
in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among
the nations, Believed on in the world, And received up in glory. (1
Timothy 3:16 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><Without
Eric Fisher
to be put in an institution before we can begin to know and trust him?
at keeping God happy.
<><><><>
i missed anyone saying "God has to be put in an institution before we
can begin to know and trust him". can you show me where that was?
Obviously some institutions are better than others at all sorts of
things. of course that would include hearing god, following gods
direction, correctly teaching gods truths, etc. i would find it very
interesting if you somehow disagree?
I KILLED YOUR GOD---IT WAS EASY!
your a certified fucking loony tune dude.
SUCK THE COCK OF CHRIST-GO FOR IT ANDREW!
Pastor Dave
spake thusly:
You're playing dodge ball. You got the point and simply
refuse to admit it.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
/
/
<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
\
\
O
"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
Part of the message of salvation, is the Creation.
Believing in the Creator. When Paul preached to
those worshipping nature and said... "turn from
these vanities unto the living God, which made
heaven and earth and the sea and all things that
are therein:" - Acts 14:15 Paul believed it too.
::: veralein :::
yankands...@yahoo.com <yankands...@yahoo.com> typed:
> However, thecospiracy theories are more fun and the one that hits the
> world on 16th August will rock yoru socks.
>
> If you were perplexed by DaVinci Code you will be spellbound by the
> next one - which will be VERY adult in nature - A1 in fact, and only
> available as an adult ebook.
>
> Bet you can't wait in reality.
>
> As to protecting yourself against false teachers - how do you know the
> truth from fiction?
That is rather easy - just open your eyes to see and your ears to
listen, and your heart to let Jesus in there.
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
"Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you will find. Knock, and it
will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks
finds. To him who knocks it will be opened."
(Matthew 7:7-8 WEB)
percy
He can't - it's already up his ass.
Vicki
sensi
"Eric Fisher" <ericf...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3789-44D...@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net...
> sensi:
> Those are all man-made religious institutions.I want to know why God has
> to be put in an institution before we can begin to know and trust him?
> Evidently what she's saying is some institutions are better than others
> at keeping God happy.
> <><><><>
>
> i missed anyone saying "God has to be put in an institution before we
> can begin to know and trust him". can you show me where that was?
>
Think about it.
Vera is saying you can worship God only in only certain controlled religious
institutions.She is saying God needs to be controlled by religious
insitutions, religious leaders, religious dogma and is forced to exist in
one book.
> Obviously some institutions are better than others at all sorts of
> things. of course that would include hearing god, following gods
> direction, correctly teaching gods truths, etc. i would find it very
> interesting if you somehow disagree?
sensi:
I think it's nice to share our experiences but that's unheard of in such a
controlled environment where you're at the mercy of the head of that church.
Are you allowed to share your dreams or talk about your insights? Usually
it's customary to set down shut up and listen to a religious leader
bellowing the same old stuff of reading from a book and him filling you with
his opinions. . Can you raise your hand and say preacher I had this
marvelous insight or I dreamed last night about such and such, this idea
came to me or that idea left me?
It's not that I'm against church's it's just that they're against God doing
anything other than what they say he is allowed to do.
I like what Einstein said:
If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward,
then we are a sorry lot indeed.
"When the solution is simple, God is answering."
Love,
sensi
::: veralein :::
sensi <sensi...@home.net> typed:
> "Eric Fisher" <ericf...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:3789-44D...@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net...
>> sensi:
>> Those are all man-made religious institutions.I want to know why God
>> has to be put in an institution before we can begin to know and
>> trust him? Evidently what she's saying is some institutions are
>> better than others at keeping God happy.
>> <><><><>
>>
>> i missed anyone saying "God has to be put in an institution before we
>> can begin to know and trust him". can you show me where that was?
>>
> sensi:
> Think about it.
> Vera is saying you can worship God only in only certain controlled
> religious institutions.
Pardon? Where would I have said such a nonsense?
> She is saying God needs to be controlled by
> religious insitutions, religious leaders, religious dogma and is
> forced to exist in one book.
You are full of trash and lies. I have never written that. It is what
your deluded mind has made of what I have written. Why do you lie about
me?
::: vera :::
sensi
> In news:KsCdnegcx6u5HkrZ...@pghconnect.com,
> sensi <sensi...@home.net> typed:
>> "Eric Fisher" <ericf...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>> news:3789-44D...@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net...
>>> sensi:
>>> Those are all man-made religious institutions.I want to know why God
>>> has to be put in an institution before we can begin to know and
>>> trust him? Evidently what she's saying is some institutions are
>>> better than others at keeping God happy.
>>> <><><><>
>>>
>>> i missed anyone saying "God has to be put in an institution before we
>>> can begin to know and trust him". can you show me where that was?
>>>
>> sensi:
>> Think about it.
>> Vera is saying you can worship God only in only certain controlled
>> religious institutions.
Vera Wrote:
Pardon? Where would I have said such a nonsense?
sensi:
Read your post "How to protect yourself against false christian teachings"
You named a few places where people could learn about God.
>> She is saying God needs to be controlled by
>> religious insitutions, religious leaders, religious dogma and is
>> forced to exist in one book.
>
> You are full of trash and lies. I have never written that. It is what your
> deluded mind has made of what I have written. Why do you lie about me?
sensi:
I'm not full of trash nor am I lying. You yourself have been prancing all
over the net trying to shut people up about God and their experiences. You
have made many comments to people about their church whether they attend or
not and when you find out they don't or can't for health reasons you then
assault them with the idea that they better find a church of a preferable
style if they want to know God or Jesus. Am I correct?
::: veralein :::
sensi <sensi...@home.net> typed:
> " ::: veralein :::" <vera...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:4jpfftF...@individual.net...
>> In news:KsCdnegcx6u5HkrZ...@pghconnect.com,
>> sensi <sensi...@home.net> typed:
>>> "Eric Fisher" <ericf...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>>> news:3789-44D...@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net...
>>>> sensi:
>>>> Those are all man-made religious institutions.I want to know why
>>>> God has to be put in an institution before we can begin to know and
>>>> trust him? Evidently what she's saying is some institutions are
>>>> better than others at keeping God happy.
>>>> <><><><>
>>>>
>>>> i missed anyone saying "God has to be put in an institution before
>>>> we can begin to know and trust him". can you show me where that
>>>> was?
>>> sensi:
>>> Think about it.
>>> Vera is saying you can worship God only in only certain controlled
>>> religious institutions.
>
> Vera Wrote:
> Pardon? Where would I have said such a nonsense?
>
> sensi:
> Read your post "How to protect yourself against false christian
> teachings" You named a few places where people could learn about God.
I have not written the nonsense that you claim there. I wrote that one
can protect oneself against false Christian teaching by learning more
about Scripture - which can be done at a number of churches, and I also
gave a recommendation of churches.
There is nothing in it that could come close to what you pretended.
>>> She is saying God needs to be controlled by
>>> religious insitutions, religious leaders, religious dogma and is
>>> forced to exist in one book.
>>
>> You are full of trash and lies. I have never written that. It is
>> what your deluded mind has made of what I have written. Why do you
>> lie about me?
>
> sensi:
> I'm not full of trash nor am I lying. You yourself have been
> prancing all over the net trying to shut people up about God and
> their experiences. You have made many comments to people about their
> church whether they attend or not and when you find out they don't or
> can't for health reasons you then assault them with the idea that
> they better find a church of a preferable style if they want to know
> God or Jesus. Am I correct?
No, but I am done with you again.
You are full of intrigues and lies - I can do without that.
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Eric Fisher
begin to know and trust him? Evidently what she's saying is some
institutions are better than others at keeping God happy.
<><><><>
i missed anyone saying "God has to be put in an institution before we
can begin to know and trust him". can you show me where that was?
sensi:
Think about it.
Vera is saying you can worship God only in only certain controlled
religious institutions.She is saying God needs to be controlled by
religious insitutions, religious leaders, religious dogma and is forced
to exist in one book.
<><>><>
yet again. you are saying she is saying something she has not said, to
my knowledge. i did not get that at all from....
"The best way to protect yourself against false Christian teachers is to
know better! Get informed in an Alpha Course, for example -"
or from .....
"I recommend people to find a church at their home towns. I can
recommend these ones (you can find a lot of faithful Christians there):
- the Baptists
- the Methodists
- the Anglicans
- the Pentecostals
- the Roman Catholics
- the Lutherans
- most Free Evangelicals
- the Coptic Orthodox
- several others "
..................................
sensi:
I think it's nice to share our experiences but that's unheard of in such
a controlled environment where you're at the mercy of the head of that
church. Are you allowed to share your dreams or talk about your
insights?
Can you raise your hand and say preacher I had this marvelous insight or
I dreamed last night about such and such, this idea came to me or that
idea left me?
....
yes. there are many fellowships that allow for those opportunities. i
have been in many such fellowships myself and been allowed to introduce
many ideas that would be considered "different". i have alsoo, on
numerous occasions, been thanked by the leaders/pastors for such
actions. and i am talking about groups considered "rigid" and groups
considered "loose". i am sorry if your experiences have differed, but
they only mean "SOME churches don't allow this".
from my experiences, you have to realise that you look dishonest by
saying, "they're against God doing anything other than what they say he
is allowed to do.", unless you are merely talking about a specific
church you have specific facts about.
sensi
sensi:
Well, I apologize if I thought something other than what you intended for me
to think. .
>>>> She is saying God needs to be controlled by
>>>> religious insitutions, religious leaders, religious dogma and is
>>>> forced to exist in one book.
>>>
>>> You are full of trash and lies. I have never written that. It is
>>> what your deluded mind has made of what I have written. Why do you
>>> lie about me?
>>
>> sensi:
>> I'm not full of trash nor am I lying. You yourself have been
>> prancing all over the net trying to shut people up about God and
>> their experiences. You have made many comments to people about their
>> church whether they attend or not and when you find out they don't or
>> can't for health reasons you then assault them with the idea that
>> they better find a church of a preferable style if they want to know
>> God or Jesus. Am I correct?
>
> No, but I am done with you again.
sensi:
sensi
sensi:.
I don't mean to sound dishonest but truthful in realizing teaching, learning
and growing goes far beyond the boundaries of church doctrine.
::: veralein :::
Yes, you did, and okay, apology accepted.
>>>>> She is saying God needs to be controlled by
>>>>> religious insitutions, religious leaders, religious dogma and is
>>>>> forced to exist in one book.
>>>>
>>>> You are full of trash and lies. I have never written that. It is
>>>> what your deluded mind has made of what I have written. Why do you
>>>> lie about me?
>>>
>>> sensi:
>>> I'm not full of trash nor am I lying. You yourself have been
>>> prancing all over the net trying to shut people up about God and
>>> their experiences. You have made many comments to people about their
>>> church whether they attend or not and when you find out they don't
>>> or can't for health reasons you then assault them with the idea that
>>> they better find a church of a preferable style if they want to know
>>> God or Jesus. Am I correct?
>>
>> No, but I am done with you again.
>
> sensi:
>
>
>> You are full of intrigues and lies - I can do without that.
So I will take that back, too. Sorry.
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
John 3:16-17 WEB For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and
only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have
eternal life. For God didn't send his Son into the world to judge the
world, but that the world should be saved through him.
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
rm
"Eric Fisher" <ericf...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3789-44D...@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net...
> Those are all man-made religious institutions.I want to know why God has
> to be put in an institution before we can begin to know and trust him?
> Evidently what she's saying is some institutions are better than others
> at keeping God happy.
> <><><><>
>
> i missed anyone saying "God has to be put in an institution before we
> can begin to know and trust him". can you show me where that was?
1Pet 2:4-11 impresses me with institution type language. For example,
'spiritual house' [temple?] is evocative of where God lives and is served
by us as His priesthood. Chosen people, royal priesthood, holy nation etc
reminds me that His corporate people is His church.
> Obviously some institutions are better than others at all sorts of
> things. of course that would include hearing god, following gods
> direction, correctly teaching gods truths, etc. i would find it very
> interesting if you somehow disagree?
I don't disagree on those, but it seems too cold for my liking. When we
gather together in ch, I'ld rather it be a vehicle whereby we enjoy each
other's presence praising God for His great deads (Rev 4:8-11, 5:9-14); and
to be reminded that we are scumbags (Psa 51).
What sayest thou?
Cheers.
sensi
"rm" <rm@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
news:44d7bd4b$0$25589$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
I sayeth that....
God created us as souls. We are his children ....we are not scumbags...and
that is something I truly dislike about religion spreading those kinds of
rumors.
I would agree that at *times* we may act like scumbags which btw does not in
any way glorify God as a Father.
sensi
Apology accepted but I still say it is possible to study and learn things
about God & life outside of these religions you posted. Okay?
rm
"sensi" <sensi...@home.net> wrote in message
news:FbKdnZTUqqgPIkrZ...@pghconnect.com...
>
> "rm" <rm@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:44d7bd4b$0$25589$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>
>> "Eric Fisher" <ericf...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>> news:3789-44D...@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net...
>>> sensi:
>>> Those are all man-made religious institutions.I want to know why God
>>> has
>>> to be put in an institution before we can begin to know and trust him?
>>> Evidently what she's saying is some institutions are better than others
>>> at keeping God happy.
>>> <><><><>
>>>
>>> i missed anyone saying "God has to be put in an institution before we
>>> can begin to know and trust him". can you show me where that was?
>>
>> 1Pet 2:4-11 impresses me with institution type language. For example,
>> 'spiritual house' [temple?] is evocative of where God lives and is
>> served by us as His priesthood. Chosen people, royal priesthood, holy
>> nation etc reminds me that His corporate people is His church.
>>
>>> Obviously some institutions are better than others at all sorts of
>>> things. of course that would include hearing god, following gods
>>> direction, correctly teaching gods truths, etc. i would find it very
>>> interesting if you somehow disagree?
>>
>> I don't disagree on those, but it seems too cold for my liking. When we
>> gather together in ch, I'ld rather it be a vehicle whereby we enjoy each
>> other's presence praising God for His great deads (Rev 4:8-11, 5:9-14);
>> and to be reminded that we are scumbags (Psa 51).
Let me revise the last statement -
... and to be reminded of His mercy for our sinfulness (Psa 51).
Eric Fisher
From: rm@hotmailDOTcom (rm)
'spiritual house' [temple?] is evocative of where God lives and is
served by us as His priesthood. Chosen people, royal priesthood, holy
nation etc reminds me that His corporate people is His church.
I don't disagree on those, but it seems too cold for my liking. When we
gather together in ch, I'ld rather it be a vehicle whereby we enjoy each
other's presence praising God for His great deads (Rev 4:8-11, 5:9-14);
and to be reminded that we are scumbags (Psa 51).
What sayest thou?
Cheers.
<><>><><>><>
sure, i have no disagreement with that.
::: veralein :::
>> sensi:
> Apology accepted but I still say it is possible to study and learn
> things about God & life outside of these religions you posted. Okay?
Okay. Of course it is possible, and I think I left that open in my post.
The list of churches was a recommendation, and I had also listed the
choice "others" there.
I really think that it is safer to learn at a good church than just on
your own. We are sheep and sheep live in flocks. :-)
"Mark T"
> open .... your heart to let Jesus in there.
Open heart surgery with a Nazi butcher's knife?????
--
"We're Christians! We're not supposed to think!" Fanny Wype (Nudist Colony
Of The Dead)
"All things are probable. Try to believe." - Mark 17:1
"Really! Try to believe even if it's bloody stupid and irrational." - Mark
17:2
"Why? Because I said so, that's why! Don't ask questions. Just
believe." - Mark 17:3
"Mark T"
> You yourself have been prancing all over the net trying to shut people up
> about God and their experiences. You have made many comments to people
> about their church whether they attend or not and when you find out they
> don't or can't for health reasons you then assault them with the idea that
> they better find a church of a preferable style if they want to know God
> or Jesus. Am I correct?
Yep!
That's our Vera!
"Mark T"
> 1Pet 2:4-11 impresses me with institution type language. For example,
> 'spiritual house' [temple?] is evocative of where God lives and is served
> by us as His priesthood. Chosen people, royal priesthood, holy nation etc
> reminds me that His corporate people is His church.
God is everywhere and not confined to a man made institution.
As Bent Mitts likes to say "The <bible> says ...."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Isaiah 66: 1-2 (Jerusalem Bible)
Thus says Yahweh
With heaven my throne
and earth my footstool,
what house could you build me,
what place could you make for my rest?
All of this was made by my hand
and all of this is mine - it Yahweh who speaks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Mark T"
> God created us as souls. We are his children ....we are not scumbags...and
> that is something I truly dislike about religion spreading those kinds of
> rumors.
Psalm 82:6 You too are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you.
Isaiah 29:13 Yahweh has said: ... this people approaches me only in words,
honours me only with lip service while its heart is far from me, and my
religion, as far as it is concerned, is nothing but human commandment, a
lesson memorised
Isaiah 63:8-9 [Yahweh] said 'Truly they are my people, sons and no rogues',
he proved himself their saviour in all their troubles. It was neither
messenger no angel but his presence that saved them. in his love and pity
he redeemed them himself.
Denis Loubet
>> > Atheist neighbor wrote:
>> >> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>> >
>> > <snip>
>> >
>> >> > A heart that hates is stricken and has no room for the Holy Spirit.
>> >> >
>> >> > LORD Jesus Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father so that
>> >> > the
>> >> > Holy Spirit would become our Great Counselor and Comforter. Please
>> >> > look to GOD the Father, the Son, **and** the Holy Spirit to help you
>> >> > remain in HIS infinite will.
>> >> >
>> >> > It is our sinful nature to automatically judge the sinner for the
>> >> > sins
>> >> > we observe. Our LORD has taught us how to counter this (Matthew
>> >> > 7:1-2).
>> >> > It is our sinful nature that leads to a sick heart filled with hate
>> >> > instead of the love that makes our heart spacious enough for the
>> >> > Holy
>> >> > Spirit.
>> >> >
>> >> > May GOD heal all of our hearts.
>> >>
>> >> You can start by asking your LORD to make you apologise for all the
>> >> vicious bile you constantly direct at those who try to help you see
>> >> the
>> >> error of your ways.
>> >
>> > Sorry the truth bothers you so terribly. Please forgive all my
>> > iniquities.
>> >
>>
>> Don't consider even for an instant that you might be wrong.
>
> Actually, if I were always right, I would not need the guidance of the
> Holy Spirit.
If you're not always right, then why are you certain that it's the holy
spirit that's guiding you? You could be wrong. It could be anything from the
devil, or a psychosis, that's guiding you. You have no way to tell what's
guiding you.
>> It is the other person that's wrong, and that's final, right?
>
> Depends on who is standing on the side of the truth, Who is LORD Jesus
> Christ.
But since you admit you can be wrong, you may not be following this Jesus
character at all. In that case you wouldn't be on the side of truth, and
then why should anyone listen to you?
> "I am the way, the truth, and the life... " -- LORD Jesus Christ.
The Jesus character either said that or he didn't. You THINK he said that,
but you admit you could be wrong. He could have said something else, or
nothing at all, or not even exist. You have no way to tell since you could
be wrong about who's guiding you.
> May GOD heal your heart, dear neighbor Denis.
What if the God character has already healed my heart, and that such healing
requires that one has an atheistic outlook. What if you're wrong? What if
you're following the wrong spirit? What if the actual holy spirit wants you
to be an atheist? Why are you acting against god's wishes?
> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Or so you think.
You could be completely wrong.
--
Denis Loubet
dlo...@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
sensi
""Mark T"" <thinkaboutwh@youaredoing98346598747956489765659656502442> wrote
in message news:44d7d3a3$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> "sensi" wrote:
>
>> God created us as souls. We are his children ....we are not
>> scumbags...and that is something I truly dislike about religion spreading
>> those kinds of rumors.
>
>
> Psalm 82:6 You too are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you.
>
sensi:
This is TRUE! And I don't know why people have such a hard time with "ye are
gods" meaning we are creators creating from the Creator..... We do create,
all of us!
sensi
>
> From: rm@hotmailDOTcom (rm)
> 1Pet 2:4-11 impresses me with institution type language. For example,
> 'spiritual house' [temple?] is evocative of where God lives and is
> served by us as His priesthood. Chosen people, royal priesthood, holy
> nation etc reminds me that His corporate people is His church.
> .
sensi:
The temple is in our body not in building.. The chosen people (spirits)
reside within our temple as chosen thoughts, ideas and actions (all spirits
of good will) we become these by thought/action/attitude/emotion.
> I don't disagree on those, but it seems too cold for my liking. When we
> gather together in ch, I'ld rather it be a vehicle whereby we enjoy each
> other's presence praising God for His great deads (Rev 4:8-11, 5:9-14);
> and to be reminded that we are scumbags (Psa 51).
> What sayest thou?
> Cheers.
> <><>><><>><>
>
> sure, i have no disagreement with that.
>
sensi:
Okay, what excuse do we have for being scumbags?
What sayest thou?
"Mark T"
> The temple is in our body not in building
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Isaiah 66: 1-2 (Jerusalem Bible)
Thus says Yahweh
With heaven my throne
and earth my footstool,
what house could you build me,
what place could you make for my rest?
All of this was made by my hand
and all of this is mine - it Yahweh who speaks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus of Nazareth could easily fit into a building or temple or house ...
and did many times.
> The chosen people (spirits) reside within our temple as chosen thoughts,
> ideas and actions >(all spiritsof good will) we become these by
> thought/action/attitude/emotion.
Spirit is identified with life, breath, thought, reason, word, rationality,
mind, etc.
Spirit is not associated with waffly good feelings.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Thankfully, the Holy Spirit is always right.
Though it is impossible for me to always be right, **with** GOD it is
possible to always be right.
> , then why are you certain that it's the holy
> spirit that's guiding you?
GOD is the source of all knowledge and wisdom. With GOD, one can be
certain.
May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Denis.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew B. Chung
sensi
""Mark T"" <thinkaboutwh@youaredoing93875895986459864956956> wrote in
message news:44d7e21a$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Blowing you a kiss on the 'forehead'.
rm
>
> "Eric Fisher" <ericf...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:17166-44D...@storefull-3218.bay.webtv.net...
>>
>> From: rm@hotmailDOTcom (rm)
>> 1Pet 2:4-11 impresses me with institution type language. For example,
>> 'spiritual house' [temple?] is evocative of where God lives and is
>> served by us as His priesthood. Chosen people, royal priesthood, holy
>> nation etc reminds me that His corporate people is His church.
>> .
>
> sensi:
> The temple is in our body not in building.. The chosen people (spirits)
> reside within our temple as chosen thoughts, ideas and actions (all
> spirits of good will) we become these by
> thought/action/attitude/emotion.
I don't think that physical buildings were ever in view. But you are right
that we are His temple, e.g. "you" in 1Cor 3:16 (cf 2Cor 6:16) is in the
plural.
In a way, being His people is less individual and more corporate. So with
passages like Eph 2:19-21 we find that all are built into that temple "...
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself
being the cornerstone".
As to institutions, the opening verse to Philippians may give us a glimpse
of one either already up and running, or one in the making.
rm
""Mark T"" <thinkaboutwh@youaredoing98346598747956489765659656502442> wrote
in message news:44d7...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> "rm" wrote:
>
>> 1Pet 2:4-11 impresses me with institution type language. For example,
>> 'spiritual house' [temple?] is evocative of where God lives and is
>> served by us as His priesthood. Chosen people, royal priesthood, holy
>> nation etc reminds me that His corporate people is His church.
>
>
> God is everywhere and not confined to a man made institution.
Yea, verily.
Fellow citizens in His Kingdom, under His governance transcend all that
(Eph 2:19).
Cheers.
sensi
"rm" <rm@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
>
> "sensi" <sensi...@home.net> wrote in message
> news:rpGdnZnShL5fQErZ...@pghconnect.com...
>>
>> "Eric Fisher" <ericf...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>> news:17166-44D...@storefull-3218.bay.webtv.net...
>>>
>>> From: rm@hotmailDOTcom (rm)
>>> 1Pet 2:4-11 impresses me with institution type language. For example,
>>> 'spiritual house' [temple?] is evocative of where God lives and is
>>> served by us as His priesthood. Chosen people, royal priesthood, holy
>>> nation etc reminds me that His corporate people is His church.
>>> .
>>
>> sensi:
>> The temple is in our body not in building.. The chosen people (spirits)
>> reside within our temple as chosen thoughts, ideas and actions (all
>> spirits of good will) we become these by
>> thought/action/attitude/emotion.
>
> I don't think that physical buildings were ever in view. But you are
> right that we are His temple, e.g. "you" in 1Cor 3:16 (cf 2Cor 6:16) is in
> the plural.
>
> In a way, being His people is less individual and more corporate. So with
> passages like Eph 2:19-21 we find that all are built into that temple "...
> built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself
> being the cornerstone".
sensi:
Okay, as long as I can see that it is within us (each of us) no matter race,
religion or culture. I get humped up like an old she cat when people start
in with the I'm God's chosen person while you are the outcast.
Sadly I'm realizing wars are usually started by people pretending to be
chosen and doing God a favor by eliminating other people whom they look down
on as outcast.
>
> As to institutions, the opening verse to Philippians may give us a
> glimpse of one either already up and running, or one in the making.
>
> sensi:
Runs to go look...Agreed if it's *within.*
rm
[nip and tuck]
>> I don't think that physical buildings were ever in view. But you are
>> right that we are His temple, e.g. "you" in 1Cor 3:16 (cf 2Cor 6:16) is
>> in the plural.
>>
>> In a way, being His people is less individual and more corporate. So
>> with passages like Eph 2:19-21 we find that all are built into that
>> temple "... built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ
>> Jesus himself being the cornerstone".
>
> sensi:
> Okay, as long as I can see that it is within us (each of us) no matter
> race, religion or culture. I get humped up like an old she cat when
> people start in with the I'm God's chosen person while you are the
> outcast.
> Sadly I'm realizing wars are usually started by people pretending to be
> chosen and doing God a favor by eliminating other people whom they look
> down on as outcast.
No worries. I leave that in the lap of the God.
Cheers.
bob young
Pastor Kutchie wrote:
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Atheist neighbor wrote:
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > > A heart that hates is stricken and has no room for the Holy Spirit.
> > > >
> > > > LORD Jesus Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father so that the
> > > > Holy Spirit would become our Great Counselor and Comforter. Please
> > > > look to GOD the Father, the Son, **and** the Holy Spirit to help you
> > > > remain in HIS infinite will.
> > > >
> > > > It is our sinful nature to automatically judge the sinner for the sins
> > > > we observe. Our LORD has taught us how to counter this (Matthew 7:1-2).
> > > > It is our sinful nature that leads to a sick heart filled with hate
> > > > instead of the love that makes our heart spacious enough for the Holy
> > > > Spirit.
> > > >
> > > > May GOD heal all of our hearts.
> > >
> > > You can start by asking your LORD to make you apologise for all the
> > > vicious bile you constantly direct at those who try to help you see the
> > > error of your ways.
> >
> > Sorry the truth bothers you so terribly. Please forgive all my
> > iniquities.
> >
> That is not an apology, that is arrogance.
a necessary prerequisite for most religionists
"you had better follow the god that we made up, or else......"
bob young
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
> Atheist neighbor wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Atheist neighbor wrote:
> > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > > A heart that hates is stricken and has no room for the Holy Spirit.
> > > > >
> > > > > LORD Jesus Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father so that the
> > > > > Holy Spirit would become our Great Counselor and Comforter. Please
> > > > > look to GOD the Father, the Son, **and** the Holy Spirit to help you
> > > > > remain in HIS infinite will.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is our sinful nature to automatically judge the sinner for the sins
> > > > > we observe. Our LORD has taught us how to counter this (Matthew 7:1-2).
> > > > > It is our sinful nature that leads to a sick heart filled with hate
> > > > > instead of the love that makes our heart spacious enough for the Holy
> > > > > Spirit.
> > > > >
> > > > > May GOD heal all of our hearts.
> > > >
> > > > You can start by asking your LORD to make you apologise for all the
> > > > vicious bile you constantly direct at those who try to help you see the
> > > > error of your ways.
> > >
> > > Sorry the truth bothers you so terribly. Please forgive all my
> > > iniquities.
> > >
> > That is not an apology, that is arrogance.
>
> Without the LORD, your opinion is still meaningless (Ecclesiastes).
Fool - that chapter [like all the others] was written by a human about his
imaginary god - and you quote it like it was a book full of magic
hopeless
>
>
> May GOD heal your heart, dear neighbor.
>
Kurt Gavin
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> GOD is the source of all knowledge and wisdom. With GOD, one can be
> certain.
Certain of what? You can't even prove your jesus/god exists.
Your ridiculous posts are full of blathering inanities.
You're a chronic liar. Like the 40 day fast, but you didn't show any weight
loss???
Denis Loubet
Perhaps, but you are not. You may be wrong in your identification of the
holy spirit.
> Though it is impossible for me to always be right, **with** GOD it is
> possible to always be right.
But you could be wrong about being "**with** GOD".
>> , then why are you certain that it's the holy
>> spirit that's guiding you?
>
> GOD is the source of all knowledge and wisdom.
Perhaps, but you don't know if you are accessing the god.
> With GOD, one can be
> certain.
But you don't know you are with god. You're only guessing you're with god.
You could be wrong about that.
> May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Denis.
What if it's already healed? What if I'm the one who is with god and you
aren't with god?
> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
How do you know it's Christ's amazing love? Are you suggesting you're
infallible?
--
Denis Loubet
dlo...@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
Eric Fisher
Okay, what excuse do we have for being scumbags? What sayest thou?
<><>><><><
i don't think we need an excuse. it's just the way we are. but hopefully
we are letting god work on that. what a boing existance it would be, if
we had nothing to work on. there's a lot to be said for those guys that
go on about not overlooking the journey as we look for the destination.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
In the Holy Spirit, most assuredly without doubt, I am.
Amen !
Laus Deo !
Marana tha !
May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Denis.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew B. Chung
Kurt Gavin
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> In the Holy Spirit, most assuredly without doubt, I am.
You are listening to the demons.
Denis Loubet
Then you contradict yourself. You tell us you can be wrong, but now you tell
us you cannot be wrong. I can only assume your claim that you could be wrong
was an effort at false modesty.
> Amen !
>
> Laus Deo !
>
> Marana tha !
Cowabunga!
> May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Denis.
What if mine is healed and yours is not?
> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
But you don't know that, you're only guessing.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Without the LORD, your opinion is meaningless (Ecclesiastes).
May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Denis.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew B. Chung
Kurt Gavin
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nosp...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
>> > In the Holy Spirit, most assuredly without doubt, I am.
>>
>> Then you contradict yourself.
>
> Without the LORD, your opinion is meaningless (Ecclesiastes).
With demons in your head, your chanting is confused (Ecclesiastes).