Hodgson or Derleth's Carnacki tale "The Hog"?
mark samuels
"The Hog" (part of the Carnacki series of tales) was solved? I
remember reading somewhere that no previous publication of the story
(as by WHH) ever turned up (though this may have been back in the
1980s, when I first heard of it). There were rumours knocking around
that Derleth had written the story himself and passed it off as by
Hodgson (something he did with "The Churchyard Yew" claiming
authorship by Le Fanu). Does anyone know anything more about this?
It's been in the back of my mind for a few years now.
Douglas A. Anderson
"mark samuels" <markfs...@aol.com> wrote in message
Here's a post I made a year ago to a different group:
This question pops up every few years. When I was working on a Hodgson
bibliography (with Mike Ashley, S.T. Joshi, and Sam Gafford) several years
ago, I went through all the correspondence between Derleth and Hodgson's
sister, H.C. Koenig (the real champion of Hodgson in America), and others,
at the State Historical Society of Wisconsin. It's very clear that a story
by Hodgson entitled "The Hog" existed, and later I was also able to see the
actual original typescript of this story (along with other Hodgson
manuscripts) in a private collection. There is, in my humble estimation, no
doubt whatsoever to its authenticity.
However, how Hodgon's short story "Demons of the Sea" (published 1923)
became butchered into "The Crew of the Lancing" in Derleth's anthology _Over
the Edge_ (1964), is entirely another matter....
Doug A.
Douglas A. Anderson
Hodgson's story "Demons of the Sea" appeared in 1923.
An abridged, re-written version appeared in Derleth's anthology in 1964.
From there interpretation gets murky. Some have suggested (as they have of
"The Hog") that Derleth had a hand in butchering the tale (the 1923 version
is better), but there is really no evidence one way or another. Hodgson
frequently rewrote his own tales slightly (the magazine versions are almost
always different in the UK and US versions)--he kept a keen eye on
copyright, and marketed many of his stories in England and abroad, and
recycled things. He was certainly capable of writing real dogs (example:
try his " A Fight with a Submarine" in the marvellously named _Canada in
Khaki_ no. 2 (1917)), so I can believe that Hodgson himself created a canine
version of his own tale. But I can also believe that Derleth had a hand in
ruining it. Take your choice.
Doug A.
MindSpring User
Hog." You can thank Darrell Schweitzer for this--he came up with the idea
as an example of a frivolous literary theory (see his book WINDOWS ON THE
IMAGINATION).
Best,
Scott Connors
mark samuels wrote in message ...
Douglas A. Anderson
"MindSpring User" <wwha...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>You can thank Darrell Schweitzer for this--he came up with the idea
> as an example of a frivolous literary theory (see his book WINDOWS ON THE
> IMAGINATION).
Scott: I didn't know we could blame Darrell for this! Hee, hee!
Doug
mark samuels
Thanks for clearing that up. You've put my mind at rest. I actually
think "The Hog" is the best of the Carnacki tales, and am interested
to learn that it was all Hodgson's own work.
Best--mark
Todd T.
clear that he was fabricating the idea, or do you mean he speculated it as
the possible truth? (I don't have the book you mention or I'd investigate
myself.) If it's the first, as it sounds below, I wonder why someone would
use a real story to create an example of an entirely fictitious rumor.
- Todd T.
"MindSpring User" <wwha...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9mc1cs$npo$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
Rick Kennett
I too have had my mind put at rest by this information. I really was
of the opinion that "The Hog" and the other late 'Carnacki' story "The
Find" were the work of Derleth. But why has mystery continued to cloud
this issue? And a more practical point, why wasn't either story
marketed by Hodgson's widow Bessie? Some time after her husband's
death she sold the unpublished 'Carnacki' story "The Haunted Jarvee".
So why not "The Hog" and "The Find"?
Rick
Douglas A. Anderson
"Rick Kennett" <ken...@visto.com> wrote in message
> I too have had my mind put at rest by this information. I really was
> of the opinion that "The Hog" and the other late 'Carnacki' story "The
> Find" were the work of Derleth. But why has mystery continued to cloud
> this issue? And a more practical point, why wasn't either story
> marketed by Hodgson's widow Bessie? Some time after her husband's
> death she sold the unpublished 'Carnacki' story "The Haunted Jarvee".
> So why not "The Hog" and "The Find"?
Hi Rick: Nice to see you on the internet. I'm very much looking forward to
your Carnacki volume (with Chico Kidd) coming from Ash-Tree.
Yes, both stories were, I think, marketed by Bessie Hodgson, and afterwards
by Lissie Hodgson. The simple truth about "The Find" is that it isn't a
good story, or at least so I think, and that might explain why it never sold
on its own. But "The Hog" had a different problem, in that it is really too
long for what most of the magazines of the day had been publishing as short
fiction. Of course those are guesses. Both were apparently written late in
the author's life-- I wonder if he had planned another series (like the
first five that were published in The Idler in 1910), but only completed
three. Again, that's speculation.
Doug A.
Douglas A. Anderson
"Todd T." <tttN...@megapipe.net> wrote in message
> Do you mean that Schweitzer made it up to illustrate a point, and made it
> clear that he was fabricating the idea, or do you mean he speculated it as
> the possible truth? (I don't have the book you mention or I'd investigate
> myself.) If it's the first, as it sounds below, I wonder why someone
would
> use a real story to create an example of an entirely fictitious rumor.
I just dug out Darrell's book. In the last piece in the book, "Creating
Frivolous Literary Theories," Darrell writes about theories which seem to
fit the facts, but aren't necessarily true. He mentions the Hodgson idea as
something he made up, which fits the facts, and which no one had disproven
(at that time). The piece originally appeared in the Summer 1985 issue of
Science Fiction Review, which explains to me why this theory has been
floating around so long...
Doug A.
Mark Valentine
--------------------------
Sorry to come in late on this one, I've only just found my way back to
this discussion group. I had also heard the suggestion that both "The
Hog" and "The Find" were not by Hope Hodgson, mostly on the basis that
they were atypical Carnacki stories, too overextended and too slight
respectively. It's good to have an authoritative view on this.
And yet I think I heard the suggestions before Darrell's book was
published, in the early Eighties. Was he, I wonder, flosting the hoax
before then or did he pick up on fannish chatter ?
Mark V.