News group or private forum?
Tom in Missouri
I decided to check on one of the pictures he was posting. I found it an
interesting surprise and you might, too. Go to
http://www.jlaforums.com/viewforum.php?f=20
You will find most of the news group in web forum format. Basically, his
forum is a copy of this news group. Now I understand places like Google
archiving this stuff for searches later on, but this has a look like
Corvette Forum with ads and such and looks like a live forum, but most is
simply this news group.
Not sure if I like having my comments plastered on someone's private web so
they can make money off of my free advice.
Tom
> http://www.jlaforums.com/viewforum.php?f=20
You know...that's almost creepy.
Copying newsgroup posts into a forum!!! WTF???
And... I'm sure plagerism to some extent.
--
Tom
"That man is richest whose pleasures are cheapest."
-Henry Thoreau
"The original point and click interface is a Smith and Wesson"
Dad
"Tom in Missouri" <too...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:tiLde.3047$pe3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
I'm sure some will rejoice but this is my last post, I will not be
associated in any way with JLA Enterprises Technologies Integration.
You guys take care an save the wave!
Dad
StingRay
news:Xns964B628678...@129.250.170.84...
Creepy is the right word! Some of us "old-timers" will recall chasing JLA
out of here a few years ago for this very reason. I kept a file on this guy
at that time and his name is Jim Adams, JLA Enterprises Technologies
Integration, 12100 Bedford Wds Dr. #209, Raleigh, NC 27614 (919) 488-3415.
The guy has serious issues and I'd suggest he be placed in your killfile.
Tom Crabtree
Being a recent newbie, I'm not aware of any past history.
I'm not sure I like JLA doing what they are doing, but don't think it's
illegal in any way. Immoral, maybe.
He will be surely missed.
TomC
'90 ZR1
Richard Padilla
What is so "creepy"? There are PLENTY of sites that mirror this news
group or "copy newsgroups posts into a forum" as the previous poster
said.
Check
http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.corvette/latestposts.html
http://www.autoforumz.com/-forum-53.html
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/chevrolet-corvette/200504/1
http://www.newsbackup.com/forum-34.html
http://www.news2mail.com/alt/autos/corvette.html
http://www.autobanter.com/forumdisplay.php?s=7cb590e810e1926cae5257ba973941db&f=22
Among many others.
Richard Padilla
these other old men. We have all been here since the crack of time and
for some of them, old habits die hard.
As far as Dad...who knows what his problem is. Maybe it is aching
joints and his ol lady isn't putting out anymore. Seriously, I do not
know what his JLA problem is and I don't care.
As far as it being "immoral" about mirroring a newsgroup, then perhaps
all of these are guilty of the same thing? Yeah right.
GOOGLE? http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.autos.corvette?hl=en
Also check
http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.corvette/latestposts.html
http://www.autoforumz.com/-forum-53.html
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/chevrolet-corvette/200504/1
http://www.newsbackup.com/forum-34.html
http://www.news2mail.com/alt/autos/corvette.html
http://www.autobanter.com/forumdisplay.php?s=7cb590e810e1926cae5257ba973941db&f=22
Among many others.
I actually prefer the web format instead of traditional news reader
format. I think they are much easier to read and far better organized
in web/forum format.
StingRay
news:1115143893.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> these other old men. We have all been here since the crack of time and
Isn't that odd Richard - I don't recall seeing you here until recently.
Perhaps you could favor us with a Google link to one of your "Old" posts,
just to verify the veracity of your statement?
> Seriously, I do not
> know what his JLA problem is and I don't care.
>
Spoken as we might expect from an AOL user. You're used to such nuisances!
*LOL*
Tom Crabtree
Richard Padilla wrote:
> If you are a newbie, please do not turn into a complainer like some of
> these other old men. We have all been here since the crack of time and
> for some of them, old habits die hard.
Richard:
I promise you won't hear any whining from me. Unless it's a from a GM
6-71. :-) By then, of course, I'll have already passed you by.
Besides, although my new to me '90 ZR1 is my first 'Vette, it is by no
means my first muscle/sport car. I figure the guys in here will
certainly save me time and frustration with my new toy.
>
> As far as Dad...who knows what his problem is. Maybe it is aching
> joints and his ol lady isn't putting out anymore. Seriously, I do not
> know what his JLA problem is and I don't care.
It sounded to me like there was some kind of serious past history. Was
just curious.
>
> As far as it being "immoral" about mirroring a newsgroup, then perhaps
> all of these are guilty of the same thing? Yeah right.
>
TomC
'90ZR1
Paul H.
days, there's a certain feeling of charity and public ownership that
gets chaffed when a commercial site gobbles up the content and
contributes nothing to the discussion. If it were mirrored in total,
I'd be tempted to just view it as an alternative portal (like an alt or
fido list) and accept the ads as paying for the cost to covert it to a
different format.
Problem with most conversions is that they fail to show entire posts.
Some conversions intentionally or accidently delete entire posts during
the conversion. This seems to happen in threads that encompass several
weeks. I think that's a bit shoddy in a technical forum. Further, when
opinion within a thread get's "fractured" it may not represent the
author's intent. Dad, bless him, taken out of the context of the thread
might not come across the way he intended -- and I think that's a very
valid concern for anyone who's gained some respect for his or her
experience and is quite candid in writing Usenet posts.
For those who have strong feelings about mirroring, copyright all of
your posts. (and save them with the 'intent' of writing a 'how-to' book)
And, when you find them pirated, hire a local attorney to write the
portal a 'strong letter.' Next step is a strong letter to the portal's
host.
Paul H.
Richard Padilla
problem retaining and mirroring groups in total.
I guess it would all depend on the particular portal's policy and
ability on article retention. If a portal didn't have a large
retention capability (it seems that most advertise a retention of
anywhere of 1 month to 1 year - with Google being the exception at
forever) and they just picked up posts blindly - well thread fracturing
could be a problem. Having worked with a BB software systems myself
(VBulletin - Invision etc) I do know that most of the major platforms
out there only mirror complete threads and drop threads during the
mirroring process that do not have an origin post or cannot be matched
up with an origin post.
On the copyright issue, I seem to remember back when Deja News was
bought by Google there was a big (well depends on who's perspective,
but in reality it wasn't that big) stink over USENET copyright and all
the USENET posts that Deja had archived being sold for THEIR profit.
All in all, about 3000 people made a petition over it and not much
really became of it (Google Groups is still going strong.) As with
Deja, you can write Google and request that any post that "you" are the
author of be removed and they will remove it. There is also the ability
to do a cancel message via newsreader which will result in the post
being removed from the entire USENET. Keep in mind though that a large
amount of news servers out there do not honor the old traditional type
of USENET cancel requests so the poster's message will never completely
disappear.
The majority of forums/portals have the same policy as Google for
removal and many provide reporting/removal request links on each post
so if anyone does not want their posts to appear on any particular site
most likely all it would take is to make the request on each post and
they would remove it. My thinking on this is that if anyone is going
to post something on the USENET, they (should) know well and good that
it is going to appear all over the world. I guess if it is that
important, they could go to all or some of the countless sites that are
portals/gateways such as Google and request removal from each - but
really if it comes to that much of an obsession for anyone, my advice
would be to get a life and a girlfriend!
Tom
> Oh, give me a friggin break. What a bunch of whiners.
>
> What is so "creepy"? There are PLENTY of sites that mirror this news
> group or "copy newsgroups posts into a forum" as the previous poster
> said.
Wow... you took some offense to our post against such practices?
It just seemed odd to have seen my posts mirrored like that. But I suppose
you don't mind having someone make money off your intellectual property. So
be it!
I'm done with this newsgroup. It's been fun guys!
Tom in Missouri
I used to get a ton of mail each day, but at least it isn't copied into
every private forum everywhere. Non-commercial, independent, and not
monitored by someone who is affiliated with certain companies.
Here's the webpage that tells how to get on the mail list.
http://vettenet.org/
"Tom" <usa1n...@iei.net> wrote in message
news:Xns964E66EF24...@129.250.170.85...
lab~rat
puked:
>I think it is time to go look up VetteNet again. Being an email list meant
>I used to get a ton of mail each day, but at least it isn't copied into
>every private forum everywhere. Non-commercial, independent, and not
>monitored by someone who is affiliated with certain companies.
>
>Here's the webpage that tells how to get on the mail list.
>http://vettenet.org/
I find it interesting that everyone is all surprised that what is sent
in a public forum turns out to be public. Seriously, how does any of
this diminish the use of this group or the reputation of its posters
in any way?
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
Tom in Missouri
writer. You write this really neat program, maybe an operating system or an
office application.
Along comes Microsoft, who instead of working and creating their own, takes
yours for free and begins selling it.
Would you be happy?
JLA Enterprises and others are essentially selling our material. Maybe not
directly, but indirectly, by selling advertising space on a website that
features nothing but our material. If it wasn't for our material, JLA
Enterprises would not be getting any advertising dollars because there would
be nothing there.
"lab~rat" <ch...@cheese.net> wrote in message
news:pnav71tl6ou1iai2d...@4ax.com...
BDragon
reprehensible their practice is. Oddly, I haven't gotten a response from
them.
"Tom in Missouri" <too...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:Yq2ge.441$wM2...@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
lab~rat
puked:
>Let's do this in a way you can relate. Pretend you are a freeware software
>writer. You write this really neat program, maybe an operating system or an
>office application.
>
>Along comes Microsoft, who instead of working and creating their own, takes
>yours for free and begins selling it.
>
>Would you be happy?
>
>JLA Enterprises and others are essentially selling our material. Maybe not
>directly, but indirectly, by selling advertising space on a website that
>features nothing but our material. If it wasn't for our material, JLA
>Enterprises would not be getting any advertising dollars because there would
>be nothing there.
I understand your point, but you weren't expecting to be reimbursed
for any of this from the onset, and clearly this is a public forum.
By participating, we have all given anyone our tacit agreement to use
the information disseminated here as they see fit.
All of this information is achieve in Google and conceivably someone
could write a book with the information from this group, and no one
here would have any recourse due to the public nature of usenet.
That being said, perhaps less people would take exception to this deal
if JLA came in here and explained what he intended to do, and asked
our opinions.
I just hate to see a good forum manipulated by an outside non
contributor. This group CAN function as it always has, regardless of
whether JLA exists or not.
ThaDriver
post something, I expect *anyone* to have access to it - forever. If
someone posts it on a website in a forum format, I'm sure it's legal &
they can get advertisers to pay for their hosting, bandwidth, time, & some
profit.
If you want your posts to remain your copywrited property, you could
always put your responses on your own website & link to it (instead of
posting to the group); a copyright notice on the website would be more
than sufficiant. Or as someone says you can state that your post is
copyrighted material, & may not be copied, reproduced, or published in any
way without prior written permission. Then you could probably sue anyone
who does so, but I would think you'd get very little compensation other
than having your post removed from their website. Maybe if they continued
publishing your posts, you could give 'em hell.
Any lawyers out there care to chime in?
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"
If you can't take the heat, get out of the nuclear reactor.
Tom in Missouri
someone take your free stuff and sell it.
"lab~rat" <ch...@cheese.net> wrote in message
news:86t181ttjkrtpqa7c...@4ax.com...
ThaDriver
someone take your free stuff and sell it.
It's simply another way to access the (readily available) information.
Actually they're not selling the info, they're selling the access. (at
least I'm sure that's what lawyers would say - would love to hear from
them)
Richard Padilla
guy in Missouri (Oh, and yes I may be old and mexican, but I am not
crabby)
Apparently it is lost of some posters what a USENET group is and how it
works?
Alt.autos.corvette is not a website nor managed/governed by anyone. It
only exists because the 10's of thousands or millions of NNTP servers
across the globe have decided to carry the group and then make it
available to their subscribers via newsreader or web access
(wait...would that mean they are making money off of you?) Some keep
your posts on their servers forever, some remove them after a week.
Google keeps them forever.
That is it. If you do not want your post to appear on servers/sites
that carry the alt.autos.corvette USENET group, then do not post
anything and quit your crying.
It seems as some here are acting like JLA or other sites are copying
your oh so valuable words and claiming authorship or whatever. If that
were the case, I would understand the complaining a bit more. But I
took a look at their (JLA) site and all of your names and words appear
there just as they do on Google, my newsreader and the other sites I
previously listed.
The JLA people are not doing anything any different than Google, the
other sites I mentioned or the company that YOU have access to this
group through. They provide access to the group for you to read and or
post the material. Some make it available for free (Google/JLA and
some of the others) and some charge for the access (most ISP's as part
of your internet subscription, and some websites as a subscription for
bandwidth and other access related fees (see GUBA or other paid USENET
feeds, etc.) Either way it is all the same, just different ways of
accessing it.
Now put some Bengay on your complaints and lets get back to talking
about Vettes.
BDragon
discussing, Richard?
Tom in Missouri
that this thread does not show up in their forum. Pretty well shots
Richard's theory that it is simply a mirror site like Google.
http://www.jlaforums.com/viewforum.php?f=20
Anyone see the thread of News Group or Private Forum?
"BDragon" <theCRA...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:8oCge.7787$sV7...@fe02.lga...
lab~rat
<theCRA...@charter.net> puked:
Since I'm afraid I may be the next one to be asked this question and I
have yet to formally introduce myself to this group, forgive the
binary.
If I were someone that likes to lie on the innernet, I could say that
they are all mine, but the fact is the SS is the only one I currently
own. The other two belong to my folks.
My mother purchased the '74 new in October of 1973. When she dies,
it'll be mine >:-)
I'm currently playing with a '66 El Camino with a 327 three on the
tree. My next toy hopefully will be a C2.
lab~rat
puked:
>One of the more interesting aspects of this JLA Forum and JLA Enterprises is
>that this thread does not show up in their forum. Pretty well shots
>Richard's theory that it is simply a mirror site like Google.
>http://www.jlaforums.com/viewforum.php?f=20
>Anyone see the thread of News Group or Private Forum?
Heh, I imagine slamming the site in your sig line would exclude you as
well...