LET'S START OVER;/DAVE FASOLD. BAUMGARDNER, AND FENNER

david...@proaxis.com

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Mar 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/20/98

to

I CAME INTO YOUR GROUP ON THE SUBJECT OF SEEING MY NAME CLAIMING I FOUND GOLD
ON THE ALTAR STONE OF WHERE THEY WORSHIPPED THE GOLDEN CALF , WHICH IS FALSE.
I CHECKED THE FEBRUARY ISSUE OF VANITY FAIR. I HAVE NOT CHECKED LARRY
WILLIAMS' BOOK 'THE TRUE MOUNT SINAI', NOR HAVE I HAD TIME TO READ 'THE GOLD
OF EXODUS' I HAVE NOT CHECKED RON WYATT'S NEWSLETTERS. SO PLEASE, UNLESS YOU
CAN QUOTE A SOURCE AND PAGE NUMBER, I'M WASTING A LOT OF MY TIME HERE AND I'M
MOVING ON TO A SERIOUS DISCUSSION GROUP. I GET THE POINT THAT IT WAS jmTHAT
SAID THIS. OK, YOU GOT HIM!

WHAT I'M SAYING IS THIS SHOTGUN APPROACH CAN'T WORK ANYMORE. WE HAVE TO WORK
THROUGH THESE ISSUES ONE BY ONE. THEY ARE NOT JUST AN OPINION. IF
BAUMGARDNER, WYATT AND FENNER WANT ON, I'LL TAKE THEM ALL ON, THE SUBJECTS,
ARE NOT IN ANY PARTICULAR ORDER, AND MY FEELINGS IN BRIEF ARE AS FOLLOW

1.BAUMGARDNER; A CREATIONIST THROUGH AND THROUGH WILL NOT TELL A STORY
STRAIGHT (BETTER THAN CALLING HIM A LIAR) 'FORSAKES' FG'S BECAUSE HE'S A
SPEAKING IN TONGUES PENTACOSTAL, YET BUILT THEM, AND VERY SUCESSFULLY USED
THEM, OFFERS THEM FOR SALE, AND ENDORSES THEM <http www
treasurenet.com/links//treasure> APPARENTLY THEY'RE OK TO BE USED BY BORN
AGAIN PAGANS LIKE ME, BUT NOT CHRISTIANS. WHO KNOWS WHAT BAUMGARDNER MEANS.
HE TELLS DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

2. MY FREQUENCY GENERATOR; I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS IF YOU BELIEVE IT WORKS
OR NOT OR IF YOU THINK ALL IT IS IS A PAIR OF BRASS BRAZING RODS WITH HANDLES
AND A BATTERY IN MY POCKET. I NEVER OFFERED THEM FOR SALE. MY HOPE WAS I
WOULD BE THE ONLY ONE IN THE WORLD THAT HAD ONE. I SHOULD MENTION THOUGH THAT
ASIDE FROM WHAT WYATT MIGHT THINK, MY FG WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR A NEW NATIONAL
PARK IN TURKEY AS MUCH AS IT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAUDI'S PUTTING A CHAIN
LINK FENCE AROUND AN ENTIRE MOUNTAIN IN ARABIA AND SHOULD THE SAUDI'S EVER
OPEN THAT CRACK IT POINTED TO, IT'LL TAKE TRUCKS TO HAUL AWAY ALL THE GOLD
THAT'S IN THERE, ALONG WITH MY OLD METAL DETECTOR LOOP STUCK DOWN IN THERE.
WITHOUT MY FG ALONG, THEREWOULDN'T BE TWO BOOKS WRITTEN ON THESUBJECT AND A
FORTHCOMING MOVIE. THE FG WAS BUILT UP BT sIMPSON AND MODIFIED BY DELL
WINDERS OF OMNITRON SYSTEMS <OMNITRON DELL SYSTEMS. 9257 htm

3. IS IT THE TRUE MOUNT SINAI THAT WYATT DISCOVERED (OR REDISCOVERED, OR
CLAIMS, WHATEVER) A; YES! BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN I BUY THEWHOLE STORY OF WHAT
WENT ON THERE.

4. HAS WYATT FOUND CHARIOT WHEELS,AND HORSES HOOFS FROM PHAROH'S DROWNED
ARMY. A; GET REAL!

5. DOES WYATT HAVE THE TRUE CROSSING SITE. A; NO! WILLIAMS AND CORNUKE DO.

6. HAS WYATT FOUND SODOM AND GOMORAH. A; HE'S FOUND WHAT THE ANCIENTS THOUGHT
WAS A DESTROYED CITY, MADE UP THE STORY, AND WALKED THEIR TERRIFFIED CHILDREN
THROUGH IT, BUT WAS IT EVER A REAL CITY, NAW. DO PEOPLE TURN TO SALT? GIMME
A BREAK. IT'S FANTASTIC THAT RON HAS FOUND THIS, AND MADE THE CONNECTION AND
THE BRIMESTONE IS REAL AND IS ROUND (THEY CAME THROUGH THE AIR) BUT THE JEWS
DREAMED THIS STORY UP TO EXPLAIN WHAT THEY FOUND. THERE HAS TO BE A NATURAL
EXPLAINATION. SEARCH FOR THAT FIRST. RON ISN'T

7.NOAH'S ARK OK , I WENT WILD WITH THIS, A BIT PREMATURE YOU MIGHT SAY, BUT
WHO WOULDN'T. IT IS 300 BY 50 CUBITS AND BOAT SHAPPED AND HAS TWELVE ANCHORS
IN THE AREA WITH ROPE HOLES.IT'D DECK SPACE AS DESCRIBED IN THE EPIC OF
GILGAMES IS ONE IKU (44,100 SQUARE FEET AND THE SAME FOR THE 129 DIVISIONS.
IT MATCHES THE 'BARQUE OF ZIUSUDRA', SHIP OF THE DELUGE, BUT IT WILL NEVER BE
THE NOAH'S ARK OF CHRISTIAN THEOLOGINS AND THE BIBLE. CALMING DOWN, WE LOOK
AT IT AGAIN. NOW THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER HERE IS IF IT WAS EVIDENCE
THAT YOU BASED YOUR OPINION ON TO BEGIN WITH, THAT EVIDENCE HAS TO GO AWAY
FOR YOU TO CHANGE YOUR OPINION. BAUMGARDNER CAN CHANGE HIS OPINION, BUT THOSE
13 LONGITUDINAL LINES AND NINE TRANSVERSE LINES, HAVEN'T GONE AWAY, SO UNLESS
A SYNCLINE EXPLAINS IT, AND IN THAT CASE, YOU HAVE THE ROCK THAT GOT INTO THE
BIBLE) YOU HAVETO DIG DEEPER , AND THIS SITE HASN'T BEEN DUG AT ALL.YET. I'VE
SPENT 13 YEARS OF MY LIFE TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT. PEOPLE WHO POP-OFF THAT
IT'S A SINCLINE HAVEN'T SEEN IT. THE ARTICLE I WROTE WITH LARRY COLLINS
PRESUPPOSES IT'S A SYNCLINE AND HOW IT WOULD SOLVE THE RIDDLE, BUT FOUR OTHER
GELOGISTS SAY IT'S NOT A SYNCLINE. (IT'S NOT FOLDED ROCK BY THE WAY AND THERE
IS NO SHISTOSITY DOWN THE MIDDLE) IT'S JUST SOMETHING COVERED IN MUD.
PERSONALLY I HOPE IT IS LARRY'S SYNCLINE SO I CAN DIE IN PEACE. FROM THE MEAN
REMARKS I GET FROM SOME CHRISTIANS, NOAH'S ARK DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE
DISCOVERED

THERE IS ONE POSSIBLE SCENARIO AND IF ANYONE IS SERIOUS ABOUT THE REAL STORY
AND THE REAL NOAH'S ARK ENOUGH TO DISCUSS IT AFTER GETTING THESE OTHER ISSUES
OUT OF THEWAY, I'LL STAY, OTHEWISE, I'M MOVING ON '

HEY! YOUR A NICE GROUP HAD LOTS OF FUN, I'LL DROP BY FOR OCASSIONAL VISITS
LET'S PART AS FRIENDS

DAVID FASOLD

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

Michelle Malkin

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Mar 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/21/98

to

>DAVID FASOLD

We may differ in points of view, but your honesty is refreshing. I'd like to
hear whatever you have to say on the above subjects. I hope that you return.

Michelle Malkin
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^

Brian Westley

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Mar 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/22/98

to

david...@proaxis.com writes:
...

>2. MY FREQUENCY GENERATOR; I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS IF YOU BELIEVE IT WORKS
>OR NOT OR IF YOU THINK ALL IT IS IS A PAIR OF BRASS BRAZING RODS WITH HANDLES
>AND A BATTERY IN MY POCKET.

IS THAT A FREQUENCY GENERATOR IN YOUR POCKET OR
ARE YOU JUST GLAD TO SEE ME?

---
MERLYN LeROY

JM

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Mar 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/22/98

to

In article <40gR.32$EP.3...@ptah.visi.com>, wes...@visi.com (Brian
Westley) wrote:

> david...@proaxis.com writes:
> ...

> >2. MY FREQUENCY GENERATOR; I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS IF YOU BELIEVE IT WORKS
> >OR NOT OR IF YOU THINK ALL IT IS IS A PAIR OF BRASS BRAZING RODS WITH HANDLES
> >AND A BATTERY IN MY POCKET.
>

> IS THAT A FREQUENCY GENERATOR IN YOUR POCKET OR
> ARE YOU JUST GLAD TO SEE ME?

I wouldn't mess with an Irish man's temper.

> MERLYN LeROY

david...@proaxis.com

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Mar 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/23/98

to

In article <40gR.32$EP.3...@ptah.visi.com>,
wes...@visi.com (Brian Westley) wrote:
>
> david...@proaxis.com writes:
> ...

> >2. MY FREQUENCY GENERATOR; I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS IF YOU BELIEVE IT WORKS
> >OR NOT OR IF YOU THINK ALL IT IS IS A PAIR OF BRASS BRAZING RODS WITH HANDLES
> >AND A BATTERY IN MY POCKET.
>

> IS THAT A FREQUENCY GENERATOR IN YOUR POCKET OR
> ARE YOU JUST GLAD TO SEE ME?
>

> ---
> MERLYN LeROY
>

HA! i love it !, Actually, turkish women look like robust men with no
mustaches so maybe they do use a batery in their pocket for something

david...@proaxis.com

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Mar 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/26/98

to

In article <6euvt0$jpm$7...@camel18.mindspring.com>,
malk...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> david...@proaxis.com wrote:

michelle, i missed your reply, sorry. nothing seems to be moving on this
board lately, just a lot of reposts, marcs' reply "are you just glad to see
me was clever. i should clarriffy something i wrote under #1 baumgardner, i
must have been sleepy. i wrote," yet he makes them and offers them for
sale". i don't think a one time occurance deserves what i said and is
misleading. he built his own frequency generator, this is not by the way a
'boogy woogy machine, you can buy them at radio shack in all sizes, but the
best is the Simpson built for testing and adjusting beepers it is an AC bench
modlel so naturally has to be modiffied for the field to dry cell batteries,
etc. you also need a frequency counter to go with it. baumgardnewr built his
own from a heath kit. he made several attempts to get the rods out of the
system and claimed he was sucessfull [i think it was with a galvinometer],
but to get the distance, went back to the rods [ there is also a certain feel
for the rods, after awhile that you can't get with a gauge] then baumgardner
took it to turkey and israel and used it. another point i should make here is
if baumgardner is a scientist and now says there is no scientific principle
behind it,then why bother to build one in the first place, right! i mean
Baumgardner as i understand, in his youth worked on the Manhatten project.
and now he's building frequency generators and using dowsing rods? what is
going on here. he had his for sale. which is not exactly what i wrote in the
plutal sense. he does not build them in bulk and sell them to the public. he
offered his own for sale to me and several others, so to the public after
he 'forsook it. but then it is odd to find him extolling it's virtues on web
page of dell winders and those selling similar units. baumgardner almost
seems to takewthe position of not using a manufactured instrument if the
company's owner is an outspoken atheist, it's a rediculous argument on his
behalf if he took one to turkiye and found patterns of 13 longitudinal lines
and 9 transverse lines in the boat shape, [i divided the boat into nine
sections epic of gilgamesh, then ground truths them with a metal dtector, and
says somthing akin "david fasold was using a form of electonic dowsing
which i nievely copied. why is the group putting the burden on me if
baumgardner did the same thing . plus, i'm not selling these things. i 'm not
advertising for these manufacturers. i'll just say this. take your
grandfathers gold pocket watch bury it, or if you don't ;like that idea, then
wrap in a damp cloth and bury it in a clean area[no trash, preferabably not
dry soil or sand and get get me a hundred yards away from it or more, 200
yards if you like, or 300 yards, and i'll draw a line straight to ipick it up
and put it and put it in my pocket and you just lost it mihelle. one member
of our group said something like, well why they don't all mining companys use
them. some do. but for sothers, it' the srong application. there's a reason
for that, it follows the least line of resistance.

in signing off, want too say that theories change with time [is this noah's
srk or not]. nobody is cast in cement except may wyatt, he's cast in a mold
of fundamentalist biblical doctrine. and as these wyatt types come and go [so
do my types, if it's not noah's ark, what is it] he's not a bad guy he just
has a wild imagination. but as any theory is adaptive with time based on new
evidence [as in my case] the new theory must continue to explan the same
observations and evidence that exised to support the old theory. the iron
patterns. baumgardner has failed to do this, and this is what i have against
him. he told me the iron fitting was man made. this was based on his
analysis and i figured 5,400 man made iron fittings arranged in a symetrical
patten of a boat shape 300 cubits long and an average 50 scubits wide in the
mountains of Ararat was a pretty safe bet as to what all the pilgrims were
visiting. i think readers would agree with me on that. so on that basis i
wrote a 387 page book called THE AK OF NOAH. and claimed the discovery for a
turkish farmer named ali oglu reshit sarinhan in who's field it appeared
after an earthquake in 1948. neither ron nor john agreed with me on that and
both wanted to be named discoverers, i figured what's right is right. i
didn't want to be named anything, plus among the rhree, my concept of noah's
ark was the Sumerian concept. it was noteven a wooden boat. this caused a
falling out. they refused to research pagan literature neither john nor ron
have the correct interpretation of "gopherwod' and even mine has become
somewhat revised based on corresponding with cuniformologists.

personally although i don't holdout much hope for it really being a peice of
it, i have to keep that option open or i would be showing bias against it
and wouldn't be a fair approch. i am facinated by what natural structure
[syncline] could appear this way and if so, would't put off the possibility
thatthe ancients might not have done something to a natual structure to make
it appear more like a boat .

now what john baumgardner did with his lousy los alamos alanalysis and
creation science christian set of ethics was to let me just hang out on the
line to dry. then he tells YOU READERS in letters and to others, a lot of
half truths and side stepping and you believe him because he's a scientist
with a PhD

i will close by saying that john can put his PHd in his hip pocket and i will
take him on as a high school drop out concerning his now held theory as to
how this shape was formed in a public debate i as both feasibly impossible
and a million to oneodds in probabibiy. lf anyone knows this creation
scientist email plese post it.

dave fasold
,
> >

> >BAUMGARDNER ENDORSES freqency generators2 <http www
> >treasurenet.com/links//treasure>

just disregard all beloew

2SALE. MY HOPE WAS I

> >DAVID FASOLD
>
> We may differ in points of view, but your honesty is refreshing. I'd like to
> hear whatever you have to say on the above subjects. I hope that you return.
>
> Michelle Malkin`^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>
>

jm

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Mar 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/26/98

to

> This is all very interesting, but it was Wyatt's machine I was referring
to, not
> whatever Baumgardner used when he went back to Turkey to do his own
examination
> of the site. As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with whatever
> Baumgardner's used. Also Mr. B is technically trained in his field - something
> that Wyatt probably can't claim about any field except nursing.

Here's the truth. Mr. Baumgardner is using a metal detector in a short
clip of a video that Fasold made. Michelle has seen this. Michelle tells
me that Baumgardner is using a molecular frequency generator. I said no,
it's a metal detector. She goes yes it is, and on and on it goes, and we
argue into eternity. I specifically said, "michelle, you know that thing
that Baumgardner has is a disk attached to a rod. That's a metal
detector." Michelle goes, "no it's not. It's the divining rod."

And it was pointed out earlier that Baumgardner was asked if he had used a
metal detector and if he, on that basis, claimed this thing to be Noah's
Ark? He side stepped the issue and said, well it was a divining rod and
when I found out what it was I forsook it.

As far as I know, Michelle has "never" admitted being wrong to anything on
this newsgroup.

JM

> Michelle Malkin

> ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^

Michelle Malkin

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Mar 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/27/98

to

This is all very interesting, but it was Wyatt's machine I was referring to, not

whatever Baumgardner used when he went back to Turkey to do his own examination
of the site. As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with whatever
Baumgardner's used. Also Mr. B is technically trained in his field - something
that Wyatt probably can't claim about any field except nursing.

>in signing off, want too say that theories change with time [is this noah's

>srk or not]. nobody is cast in cement except may wyatt, he's cast in a mold
>of fundamentalist biblical doctrine. and as these wyatt types come and go [so
>do my types, if it's not noah's ark, what is it] he's not a bad guy he just
>has a wild imagination. but as any theory is adaptive with time based on new
>evidence [as in my case] the new theory must continue to explan the same
>observations and evidence that exised to support the old theory. the iron
>patterns. baumgardner has failed to do this, and this is what i have against
>him. he told me the iron fitting was man made. this was based on his
>analysis and i figured 5,400 man made iron fittings arranged in a symetrical
>patten of a boat shape 300 cubits long and an average 50 scubits wide in the
>mountains of Ararat was a pretty safe bet as to what all the pilgrims were
>visiting. i think readers would agree with me on that. so on that basis i
>wrote a 387 page book called THE AK OF NOAH. and claimed the discovery for a
>turkish farmer named ali oglu reshit sarinhan in who's field it appeared
>after an earthquake in 1948. neither ron nor john agreed with me on that and
>both wanted to be named discoverers, i figured what's right is right. i
>didn't want to be named anything, plus among the rhree, my concept of noah's
>ark was the Sumerian concept. it was noteven a wooden boat. this caused a
>falling out. they refused to research pagan literature neither john nor ron
>have the correct interpretation of "gopherwod' and even mine has become
>somewhat revised based on corresponding with cuniformologists.

Religious fanaticism does have a tendency to put a damper on studying an issue
completely. Both Wyatt and Baumgardner seem to have limited themselves in this
respect. I do believe that most, if not all, myths have a grain of fact buried
alive and screaming for air under a ton of changes and additions to the original
story. There's nothing mystical about that.

>personally although i don't holdout much hope for it really being a peice of
>it, i have to keep that option open or i would be showing bias against it
>and wouldn't be a fair approch. i am facinated by what natural structure
>[syncline] could appear this way and if so, would't put off the possibility
>thatthe ancients might not have done something to a natual structure to make
>it appear more like a boat .

Why would they have to? Such synclines already look like boats. It's just a
shape formed by natural conditions.

>now what john baumgardner did with his lousy los alamos alanalysis and
>creation science christian set of ethics was to let me just hang out on the
>line to dry. then he tells YOU READERS in letters and to others, a lot of
>half truths and side stepping and you believe him because he's a scientist
>with a PhD

He hasn't written to this newsgroup. I quoted a letter of his that I found on a
website. I was out to disprove Wyatt and Baumgardner's message was just one
piece of evidence I found among many others.

>i will close by saying that john can put his PHd in his hip pocket and i will
>take him on as a high school drop out concerning his now held theory as to
>how this shape was formed in a public debate i as both feasibly impossible
>and a million to oneodds in probabibiy. lf anyone knows this creation
>scientist email plese post it.

>dave fasold
>,
>> >

>> >BAUMGARDNER ENDORSES freqency generators2 <http www
>> >treasurenet.com/links//treasure>

I'll have to check out this site. Are his current thoughts of the 'boat-shaped'
formation there, too?

Michelle Malkin

^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^

Michelle Malkin

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Mar 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/27/98

to

nameless, it's obvious that Mr. Fasold has already checked all this out
in Deja News. He can read what I actually said for himself. Give it up.
You're just making yourself look ever dumber than we already know you
are.

Mickey

david...@proaxis.com

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Mar 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/29/98

to

In article <6fff8s$n...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,

malk...@ix.netcom.com(Michelle Malkin) wrote:
>
> In <mccoy-26039...@aratus15.dcsi.net> mc...@dcsi.net (jm) writes:
> >

[fasold butts ]; ok, i'm getting the picture of what is wrong here, the
instrument that has a loop antenna that is swept acrosss the ground is a
metal detector, the orange one is mine, it is built by white's electronics in
sweethome oregon and is a pulse indution type and will make a loud tapping
noise, or kind of a 'duk duk duk' when over meta'l. there is another one in
the film clip that is also made by white, but works on a different principle
both types are used by archeologists all over the world, though perhaps by
different manufacturers, and produces a humming soud when over metal ]
silver, gold, iron aluminm.etc. you sweep back and forth to find the buried i
item. the freqency generator itself is a very sophisticated instrument used
to test the freqency of 'beeper's, etcand is out of site most of thetime and
usually draped over by a coat orsomethingt to keep the dust out two probes
come out of the intstrument and the antenna is omnidirectional. [thus the
name omnnitron] in other words it goes out in all directions. once you gret
out of the instrument, it is all made very cheaply and repairable in the
field because you can step on the probes, bend the dowsing rods, etc but
thats the way you want it, unless you're carrying a hot soldering gun in yout
hip pocket. you want to be able to strip it diown and repair i twith a
pockret knife the dowsing rods ae then the $15,00 end of a piece of 3,5000
piece of electronics it works much differently than metal detector you
circle the instrument [the probes in the ground. with the dowsing rods and
when the cross put a stake in the ground behind your heel. you are body
electric the square wave of let's say x10k17.0 [iron ]is coming up thru the
ground thru the tyour body and down you arms. to complete the circit, your
dowsing wires will cross. i am not sellingt thse rhings nor want to. call
dellwinder's remote sensing devices. these do no to work under all soil and
solar flare-up conditions and neither do a lot of other instruments including
the $84,000 sir -3 radar used by fenner, just ask him.t thus thank god [oops,
sorry] this should solve the argument between michelle and mccoy. john, don't
be too hard on her, she shouldn't have ] known the difference anymore than
you'd know how to baste a turkey,. i mean metal detectors are for the most
part out of women's realm of experience mixchelle, i'd like to also pointout
tht whatever field mr. b is trained for, i never saw it applied to this site.
quit kissing hi Ph in fact it is mr. b's lack of kowledge i n the field that
has caused major prob;rems in mis identifying whart we had fond ; end/dave
fasold

jm responds to michlle abov e

> >Here's the truth. Mr. Baumgardner is using a metal detector in a short
> >clip of a video that Fasold made. Michelle has seen this. Michelle tells
> >me that Baumgardner is using a molecular frequency generator. I said no,
> >it's a metal detector. She goes yes it is, and on and on it goes, and we
> >argue into eternity. I specifically said, "michelle, you know that thing
> >that Baumgardner has is a disk attached to a rod. That's a metal
> >detector." Michelle goes, "no it's not. It's the divining rod."
> >
> >And it was pointed out earlier that Baumgardner was asked if he had used a
> >metal detector and if he, on that basis, claimed this thing to be Noah's
> >Ark? He side stepped the issue and said, well it was a divining rod
>
and
> >when I found out what it was I forsook it.
> >
> >As far as I know, Michelle has "never" admitted being wrong to
> anything on
> >this newsgroup.
> >
> >JM
>

> nameless, it's obvious that Mr. Fasold has already checked all this out
> in Deja News. He can read what I actually said for himself. Give it up.
> You're just making yourself look ever dumber than we already know you
> are.
>
> Mickey
>
>

fasold/ mr. b has usedsed both metal detectorsand freqencyy generator on the
site. we have discussed the letter from baumgardner, wouild redersbe
interested in reding my letter to him he didn't have the guts to answer ;
/end dave fasold

david...@proaxis.com

unread,

Mar 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/29/98

to

In article <6flbj6$2t$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
david...@proaxis.com wrote:
> ****does anybody know of a keyboard that has lower buttons. my word processor [cannon starwriter] doesn't have the botttons up so high. believe it or not, i can spell but these computer keyboards demand that you lift your fingers way up there. just asking, forgive my mistakes

item.

the freqency generator is entirely different i is a very sophisticated
instrument used

>to test the freqency of 'beeper's, etc,and is out of sight most of the time and
> usually draped over by a coat or somethingt to keep the dust out, two probes

> come out of the intstrument and the antenna is omnidirectional. [thus the

> name omnnitron] in other words it goes out in all directions. once you get
> out of the instrument, it is all made very simply and repairable in the

> field because you can step on the probes, bend the dowsing rods, etc but
> thats the way you want it, unless you're carrying a hot soldering gun in you

> hip pocket. you want to be able to strip it diown and repair it with ease and
> pockret knife the dowsing rods ae then the $15,00 end of a piece 1,500 piece of electronics it works much differently than a metal detector you

> circle the instrument [the probes in the ground. with the dowsing rods and
> when the cross put a stake in the ground behind your heel. you are body
> electric the square wave of let's say x10k17.0 [iron ]is coming up thru the

> ground thru the your body and down you arms. to complete the circut, your
> dowsing wires will cross. i am not selling thse rhings nor want to. call
> Dell Winder's remote sensing devices. these do not work under all soil and

> solar flare-up conditions and neither do a lot of other instruments including

> magnetometers and rground penatratining rardars.the $84,000 sir -3 radar used by fenner, just ask him.

thank god [oops,> sorry] this should solve the argument between michelle and

mccoy. john. and we won't see so many reposts on what he said/she said don't

Michelle Malkin

unread,

Mar 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/29/98

to

Ah, so it all boils down to sexism now. Hopefully, both female and male
geologists and archaeologists will be kind enough to give their opinions on this
subject. I don't care what the gender of an information source is, as long as
they have information. I can only hope that this topic hasn't been done to death
in these newsgroups, so that there are no responses.

And, as I've already said, the machinery doesn't really matter. What matters is
what it supposedly found and, just as important, how that find is interpreted.
Is the Turkish site Noah's Ark? No. Is it a syncline? Yes. That pretty much
covers it. If anyone disagrees, please go to the site with some modern machinery
and do a lot more testing under proper testing conditions, record the results
and bring back testable proof. Then, we will have something to speak about
again.

Sexist comments is not an answer, Mr. Fasold. Shame on you.

Michelle Malkin

nameless wins nothing. He still hasn't been able to prove anything that he has
said. And, yes, I would like to see your letter to Baumgardener. I also wish
that he would write here to give his point of view, though I doubt that he will.

JM

unread,

Mar 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/29/98

to

Michelle, you've got to pick up the humor once in a while. Fasold has
already said that the syncline is not a real syncline. It's composed of
mud. Not a true syncline.

Diehard. This woman will never stop.

JM

unread,

Mar 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/29/98

to

In article <6flbj6$2t$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, david...@proaxis.com wrote:

OK. Cut the jokes. You don't want to stir up any more trouble than you
need to. I can see that It'd be real futile for you to convince her
anyway, despite your being an atheist. At least with that device of yours
you can keep on finding piles of gold, unless your arm prohibits youfrom
doing so.

You're still saying that that Duripinar site is some sort of odd shaped
pile of mud. Now, just wondering, are there any scans done on the
neighboring geology? If you can show scans done of these areas and not
come up with any lines, I think that would be convincing. Of course you'd
need to get a radar device. Why can't Williams fork one out for you?

JM

unread,

Mar 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/29/98

to

In article <6fmte0$9...@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>,
malk...@ix.netcom.com(Michelle Malkin) wrote:

> In <mccoy-29039...@aratus21.dcsi.net> mc...@dcsi.net (JM)

> writes:
> >
> >In article <6fmjfr$s...@camel12.mindspring.com>,
> malk...@mindspring.com wrote:
> >
> >> david...@proaxis.com wrote:
>

> snip

> I'm not surprised that you find humor in sexist comments, nameless.
> It's part of the sexist religious beliefs you follow. At least Mr.
> Fasold has his age as an excuse.
>
> I'm waiting for someone without a religious agenda to fully examine the
> site in Turkey. Until then, nothing has been proven about this site
> being anything more than a syncline. We know it isn't Noah's ark, since
> there is no such thing - outside of mythology. As to the rest, I'll
> wait to hear from the scientists.

What about Fasold? He gave the facts so why don't you accept them?

> >>
> >>

JM

unread,

Mar 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/29/98

to

In article <6fn2ta$8...@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>,
malk...@ix.netcom.com(Michelle Malkin) wrote:

> In <mccoy-29039...@aratus25.dcsi.net> mc...@dcsi.net (JM)
> writes:
> >
> >In article <6fmte0$9...@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>,
> >malk...@ix.netcom.com(Michelle Malkin) wrote:
> >
> >> In <mccoy-29039...@aratus21.dcsi.net> mc...@dcsi.net (JM)

> >> writes:
> >> >
> >> >In article <6fmjfr$s...@camel12.mindspring.com>,
> >> malk...@mindspring.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> david...@proaxis.com wrote:
> >>

> >> snip

> >> I'm not surprised that you find humor in sexist comments, nameless.
> >> It's part of the sexist religious beliefs you follow. At least Mr.
> >> Fasold has his age as an excuse.
> >>
> >> I'm waiting for someone without a religious agenda to fully examine
> the
> >> site in Turkey. Until then, nothing has been proven about this site
> >> being anything more than a syncline. We know it isn't Noah's ark,
> since
> >> there is no such thing - outside of mythology. As to the rest, I'll
> >> wait to hear from the scientists.
> >
> >What about Fasold? He gave the facts so why don't you accept them?
> >
> >> >>
> >> >>

> I asked for his side of the story. I never said that I was going to
> accept all or any of it. Even he wouldn't entirely expect that. Are you
> truly that dense?

Michelle Malkin,

The reason Fasold was even summoned by the atheists of this group was to
verify what I was saying. To prove me a liar. Fasold says the dowsing rod
works and I believe it. I want one. I want one now! Understand? It works,
and Fasold won't give me his machine because it does work.

JM

unread,

Mar 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/29/98

to

In article <6fn8a0$e...@camel19.mindspring.com>, malk...@mindspring.com wrote:

> mc...@dcsi.net (JM) wrote:
> >In article <6fmjfr$s...@camel12.mindspring.com>, malk...@mindspring.com
wrote:
>
> >> david...@proaxis.com wrote:
>

> snip

> >>
> >> >fasold/ mr. b has usedsed both metal detectorsand freqencyy
generator on the
> >> >site. we have discussed the letter from baumgardner, wouild redersbe
> >> >interested in reding my letter to him he didn't have the guts to answer ;
> >> >/end dave fasold
> >>
> >> >-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> >> >http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
> >>
> >> nameless wins nothing. He still hasn't been able to prove anything
that he has
> >> said. And, yes, I would like to see your letter to Baumgardener. I
also wish
> >> that he would write here to give his point of view, though I doubt that
> >he will.
>
> >Diehard. This woman will never stop.
>
> >JM
>

> As long as you post crap to alt.atheism, nameless, I am your greatest
nightmare.
> Mr. Fasold can speak for himself. I can speak for myself. You only repeat the
> nonsense that others have told you and you want desperately to believe
is true.
> Have you seen the Sony ad with the 'flying' pig? You probably think he really
> flew up to that branch.

Michelle, I don't think you'll ever become the greatest nightmare(to me),
especially when you won't even be reading this :)
>
> Mickey

JM

unread,

Mar 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/29/98

to

In article <6fna8b$e...@camel19.mindspring.com>, malk...@mindspring.com wrote:

> How quickly you forget, nameless. Mr. Fasold came to alt.atheism all by
himself.
> Being new to computers, he had quite a time of it at first, but he did
learn how
> to do newsgroups. He wasn't summoned, but once he was here, I was quite
> interested in what he had to say, as were other members of the newsgroup (you
> didn't see any messages from them telling him to go away, did you?) He
was nice
> enough to post several messages giving his side of the Wyatt story. I may not
> agree with everything he wrote, but I do appreciate that he wrote it. In fact,
> my only complaint with him was his sexist remarks which had nothing to do with
> the discussion. That aside, I still appreciate the time and trouble he took to
> write to us in this newsgroup. He has mentioned that he is in poor health, so
> this must be a bit of an effort for him. Do you appreciate that? No, of course
> not. All you know is that you want his machine, and have come up with a
totally
> insane reason for him not giving it to you. Hell, you loon, he probably
wouldn't
> let you through his front door, you're such a crackpot. Trust you with a
> machine that is worth thousands of dollars to him? You HAVE to be crazy.

Michelle, do you understand hyperbole? Exaggeration? It's used whenever
you want to make a point. Yes, I agree, Dave's been kind enough to be with
us on this group to correspond. I mean, he's a larger than life figure who
has gone to Turkey to do some incredible things. He's gone to Mt Sinai in
Saudi Arabia. Few can even imagine doing these things. And few have gone
searching for treasure in the oceans and have gone to great depths in an
iron suit.

>
> Mickey

Michelle Malkin

unread,

Mar 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/30/98

to

In <mccoy-29039...@aratus21.dcsi.net> mc...@dcsi.net (JM)
writes:
>

>In article <6fmjfr$s...@camel12.mindspring.com>,
malk...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
>> david...@proaxis.com wrote:

snip

Michelle Malkin

unread,

Mar 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/30/98

to

In <mccoy-29039...@aratus25.dcsi.net> mc...@dcsi.net (JM)
writes:
>
>In article <6fmte0$9...@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>,
>malk...@ix.netcom.com(Michelle Malkin) wrote:
>
>> In <mccoy-29039...@aratus21.dcsi.net> mc...@dcsi.net (JM)

>> writes:
>> >
>> >In article <6fmjfr$s...@camel12.mindspring.com>,
>> malk...@mindspring.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> david...@proaxis.com wrote:
>>

>> snip

>> I'm not surprised that you find humor in sexist comments, nameless.
>> It's part of the sexist religious beliefs you follow. At least Mr.
>> Fasold has his age as an excuse.
>>
>> I'm waiting for someone without a religious agenda to fully examine
the
>> site in Turkey. Until then, nothing has been proven about this site
>> being anything more than a syncline. We know it isn't Noah's ark,
since
>> there is no such thing - outside of mythology. As to the rest, I'll
>> wait to hear from the scientists.
>

Michelle Malkin

unread,

Mar 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/30/98

to

mc...@dcsi.net (JM) wrote:
>In article <6fmjfr$s...@camel12.mindspring.com>, malk...@mindspring.com wrote:

>> david...@proaxis.com wrote:

snip

>>
>> >fasold/ mr. b has usedsed both metal detectorsand freqencyy generator on the
>> >site. we have discussed the letter from baumgardner, wouild redersbe
>> >interested in reding my letter to him he didn't have the guts to answer ;
>> >/end dave fasold
>>
>> >-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
>> >http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
>>
>> nameless wins nothing. He still hasn't been able to prove anything that he has
>> said. And, yes, I would like to see your letter to Baumgardener. I also wish
>> that he would write here to give his point of view, though I doubt that
>he will.

>Diehard. This woman will never stop.

>JM

As long as you post crap to alt.atheism, nameless, I am your greatest nightmare.

Mr. Fasold can speak for himself. I can speak for myself. You only repeat the
nonsense that others have told you and you want desperately to believe is true.
Have you seen the Sony ad with the 'flying' pig? You probably think he really
flew up to that branch.

Mickey

Michelle Malkin

unread,

Mar 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/30/98

to

>Michelle Malkin,

>JM

How quickly you forget, nameless. Mr. Fasold came to alt.atheism all by himself.

Being new to computers, he had quite a time of it at first, but he did learn how
to do newsgroups. He wasn't summoned, but once he was here, I was quite
interested in what he had to say, as were other members of the newsgroup (you
didn't see any messages from them telling him to go away, did you?) He was nice
enough to post several messages giving his side of the Wyatt story. I may not
agree with everything he wrote, but I do appreciate that he wrote it. In fact,
my only complaint with him was his sexist remarks which had nothing to do with
the discussion. That aside, I still appreciate the time and trouble he took to
write to us in this newsgroup. He has mentioned that he is in poor health, so
this must be a bit of an effort for him. Do you appreciate that? No, of course
not. All you know is that you want his machine, and have come up with a totally
insane reason for him not giving it to you. Hell, you loon, he probably wouldn't
let you through his front door, you're such a crackpot. Trust you with a
machine that is worth thousands of dollars to him? You HAVE to be crazy.

Mickey

david...@proaxis.com

unread,

Mar 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/30/98

to

In article <mccoy-29039...@aratus21.dcsi.net>,

>dave to jm above, you raise you raise some valid points.

i will answer this later on, this particular post is getting too confusing
i'm finished with this posting/ dave

david...@proaxis.com

unread,

Mar 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/30/98

to

In article <6fmjfr$s...@camel12.mindspring.com>,

DAVE INTERJECTS; i apolgize michelle, that was a sexist remark i made in the
previous post and there are plenty of women who comb sand beaches looking for
coins with metal detectors and plenty of female archaeologists. what jm
meant to say that in the video clip, jb is humming along, with an electronic
instrument called a metal detector, and what i'm saying is, let's not call
it machinery, you do know the difference between MACHINERY and an ELETRONICS
instrument, DON'T YOU? [here's where i really get in trouble] look michelle,
metal detectors make little beeping sounds when over a target. lawmowers are
machinery, have motors and run on gasoline, metal detectors don't, and
frequency generators don't make any noise at all or cut grass and run on
batteries! actually you calling my comedown on stupidity as a sexist remark
is a sexist remark in itself. your name could be michael instead of michelle
and if you called a metal detector a piece of machinery, i doubt if you'd
even be employable. no wonder these arguments between you an jm have raged on
and on. as to syncline you would'nt know the difference between a plunging
syncline and a plunging neckline. [another sexists remark]. damn, just when i
was beginning to like you. as for jb and fenner returning to the site and
being unable to reproduce the same results, if fenner's radar won't show
pictures of folded rocks of a syncline, his company selling sub surface
interface radars is a bigger fraud than wyatt! i'm trying to tell you i'm on
your side against wyatt but this site is a PROBLEM. and for baumgardner's
claim for rock running 40% OF THE SITE THAT CAUSED THE STREAMLINE SHAPE, i
was there on site with bayraktutan, six members of the dogubayazit public
works department skidding around a diesel powered core drilling rig for 23
DAYS and one of the holes we drilled was right where baumgardners says this
rock is and we took a 10 meter core and there was NO ROCK. THE CORE IS AT
THE ATATURK UNIVERSITY and each and every core was filmed by a 16mm camera
crew. we drilled through one rock bout the size of a soft ball at the lower
end of the site and had to use a dimond bit, but that was about it. so
baumgardner's statement is absolute bull shit! GET HIM ON THIS TALK GROUP
what he is afraid of is this is the site the ancients called noah's ark and
it's not as christianity wants it because it proves the bible wrong, so do
anything to get everyone away from this site before the truth comes out..
away away, out ot, don't let anyone see the petroglyphs up at yiyatafgi that
show the pilgrims were worshippers of ishtar and that noah himsel was a
sceaming FLAMING Pagan worshipper of UTU the sun god. GET EVERYONE AWAY
FROM THIS SITE. STOP THE INVESTIGATIONS you atheist are losing the
opportunity of a lifetime here. i will post what the tthe turks say in a
newpost/df

JM

unread,

Mar 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/30/98

to

In article <35227704...@news.dynasty.net>, Boo...@dynasty.net.net
(Booster) wrote:

> Just replying so Mickey can see namless being his normal dippy self :)
>
> See dipshit, she did see ya.

You're making it hard on her. She's trying to not read my posts and you're
defeating that. Please apologize to her right now. And don't post in
reply to this because you're causing her to read this. Stop I say, stop
this.

>
> >> Mickey
> >> ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
> >^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>
>

> Shawn Allen Atheist #383
> Boo...@dynasty.net.net <--spam foiler
>
> _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
> _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_
> __|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____
> _____|_____|_____|DEFEND_____|_____|_____|
> __|_____|_____|____THE____|_____|_____|___
> _____|_____|_____|_WALL|_____|_____|_____|
> __|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____

Michelle Malkin

unread,

Mar 31, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/31/98

to

david...@proaxis.com wrote:
>In article <6fmjfr$s...@camel12.mindspring.com>,
> malk...@mindspring.com wrote:

snip

Okay, so I don't know much about machines. I never claimed that I did. I was
quoting information I had gotten from other people who supposedly know what they
are talking about. And, I do want more investigations of this site, going by
what you say. Why not? That's how we all learn. The one thing I do know about
this site is that it is NOT Noah's Ark. That is a bit of mythology. But, I would
be interested in what the geologists say it actually is - a syncline or
whatever. At least it would finally be proof to the creationists that this isn't
the site of the Ark, though whether or not they'd accept this is another story.

I don't know about very much Fenner. I only mentioned him to correct nameless'
consistent misspelling of his name.

As to both Wyatt and Baumgardner having their own religious agendas and causing
their results to prove their beliefs, wellll.... I'm not sure if Baumgardner is
in it for the money (he may just want to be known for finding something that
supports his beliefs), but Wyatt certainly is. That's obvious.

What do the Turks say? Are the quotes from Turkish geologists and archaeologists
who don't have a religious agenda? Then again, as you say in other words, some
of those with a religious agenda might want this site to be disproven as the
site of the Ark, since it would go against where they believe the Ark to be.

Michelle Malkin

Booster

unread,

Mar 31, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/31/98

to

Just replying so Mickey can see namless being his normal dippy self :)

See dipshit, she did see ya.

>> Mickey

>> ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^

Michelle Malkin

unread,

Mar 31, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/31/98

to

Thanks, Shawn, but I wonder if it was worth the journey. ;)

Mickey

david...@proaxis.com

unread,

Mar 31, 1998, 3:00:00 AM3/31/98

to

In article <6fpnql$6...@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com>,

> >Shawn Allen Atheist #383/ df, hey shawn allen, what's this supposed to

to mean.defend the wal?l?? why are you inside defending yourself, from whom?
/df

unread,

Apr 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/1/98

to

Hey, John McCoy! Why didn't you answer my questions about Ron Wyatt
and his chariot wheels in the Red Sea? You really should give a
reason. Since you haven't answered me (or other people, I gather)
everyone thinks you're cowardly and dishonest.

Now you're talking to new people about some new subject. Is that what
you do when you loose an argument, run away? Do you not have the
courage to admit when you're wrong?

Booster

unread,

Apr 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/2/98

to

On Wed, 01 Apr 1998 00:20:10 +0800, bo...@trashcan.net (BOTCH) wrote:

>In article <352cf1a5...@news.dynasty.net>, Boo...@dynasty.net.net
>(Booster) wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:54:57 +0800, mc...@dcsi.net (JM) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <3526d3ec...@news.dynasty.net>, Boo...@dynasty.net.net

>> >(Booster) wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 30 Mar 1998 23:55:20 +0800, mc...@dcsi.net (JM) wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >

>> >> >You're making it hard on her. She's trying to not read my posts and you're
>> >> >defeating that. Please apologize to her right now. And don't post in
>> >> >reply to this because you're causing her to read this. Stop I say, stop
>> >> >this.
>> >>

>> >> Eat hot dogshit and die I say, die!
>> >>
>> >> And I'll bet Mickey feels the same way about ya, mindless ;)
>> >
>> >Somebody stop this madman. He keeps posting my material and causing
>> >Michelle Malkin to read my posts. I'm sure in the spirit of Michelle
>> >Malkin that she would say "stop it.Don't do it. Don't post nameless'
>> >stuff. I don't want to see it." And you come along and you're rude and
>> >post my stuff. You must stop this insanity. Don't do it ever, ever again.
>> >Never ever again. Never,never, ever, never, ever, ever, never ever, ever,
>> >ever again.
>> Nevermore quote the fundy. :)
>
>Getting into Edgar Allen Poe, eh?

Can't stick to just ONE from line, eh?

Keith Littleton

unread,

Apr 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/2/98

to

....... Technobabble about dowsing omitted .....

As I discussed in the below post, all of the fake
gadgetry in the world, including dowsing rods dressed
up in meaningless wires and techno-babble that look and
sound scientific, but mean and do nothing, disguises the
fact that their is *no* fossil wood at Wyatt's ark site and
that there is *no* lava at Wyatt's ark site. I would still
like to.know how a so-called ark made of peridotite
would even float, much less stay intact.

yours,
Keith Littleton
litt...@vnet.net
New Orleans, LA

-------- reposted material below ---------------

Subject: Re: Repost:For David Fasold (nameless'
Obsession ( was:No questions, no answers))

mc...@dcsi.net (jm) wrote:
>In article <6ehl87$a...@camel21.mindspring.com>, >malk...@mindspring.com
wrote:
>> mc...@dcsi.net (jm) wrote:
>>>In article <6eficg$gta$4...@camel29.mindspring.com>,
>>>malk...@mindspring.com wrote:
>>>> j...@dcsi.net (JM) wrote:
>>>>>In article <6ecuhf$e...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>,
>>>>>malk...@ix.netcom.com (Michelle Malkin) wrote:
>>>>>> In <jm-130398...@aratus05.dcsi.net>
>>>>>>j...@dcsi.net (JM) writes:
>>>>>>>In article <6easik$h...@camel20.mindspring.com>,
>>>>>>>malk...@mindspring.com wrote:

....... stuff snipped ......

>>>>>Well Michelle, if you want to believe that the
>>>>>evenly spaced ore deposits are left in spaced cracks
>>>>>by earthquakes, that's your choice.

First, someone is grossly incorrect in claiming that "ore
deposits" occur in the cracks, which geologists call "joints."
An "ore deposit" would an accumulation of rock that can
be economically mined for some mineral or metal. If McCoy
would take the time to read what conventional geologists
are claiming, he would find that they fail to make any
claims of such minable deposits in the "cracks" / joints.
All I have seen claimed is that enough iron oxides and
sesquoxides have accumulated on these joints in order to
to be detectable. This totally within the realm of possibility.
In fact, there are innumerable places where this occurs in
the real world.

Second, McCoy is incorrect in claiming that joints cannot
be evenly spaced. This is discussed below. If the joints are
evenly spaced, then the accumulations of iron minerals
will be evenly spaced. As noted above, these accumulations
have nothing to do with ores as McCoy incorrectly claims.

This is what is argued in "Bogus Noah's Ark from Turkey
Exposed as a Common Geologic Structure" by Lorence Gene
Collins and David Franklin Fasold at:

http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/bogus.html

In that article, they state:

"Supposed Walls In The Ark Structure

Linear (planar) limonite concentrations along supposed
walls in the Ark were traced independently by three
investigators, each using different electronic instruments
but producing the same results (Wyatt, 1994). Thirteen
lines of limonite, marking supposed walls, converge
toward the structures pointed end, and a similar
convergence occurs at the opposite, "blunt" end.
Transverse to the longitudinal limonite concentrations
are nine lines of limonite, which were interpreted to
be walls dividing Ark rooms.

Although these relationships might seem to be logical
evidence to indicate that the structure was originally
man-made, I, as a geologist, can show that all these
features could be formed by natural processes. Joining
of lines in concentric shells at the structure's pointed
end is consistent with the structure being an eroded
doubly plunging syncline (Figure 4). At the blunt end,
however, lines were not found wrapped around parallel
to the outer relatively resistant rock of the Ark, which
a cross-sectional view of a doubly plunging synclinal
structure predicts. Their absence here occurs because
eroded alluvium from the Ark's interior spills over
the rounded end and buries the bedrock. Therefore,
converging lines of limonite and magnetite are
covered so that they are undetected. Moreover, streams
of eroded limonite and magnetite granules, projecting
beyond the resistant layer, give the false appearance of
a metal-braced structure extending beyond the rounded
end (Fasold, 1988)."

Finally, joints are not created by earthquakes. Regional
joint patterns result from the fracturing of rocks in
response to persistent, long term stresses that they are
subjected to by tectonics. This has been demonstrated by
innumerable field and laboratory studies. I would suggest
that the people involved in this debate take the time to
browse through a structural geology textbook where all
of this summarized. I would personally recommend:

1. Twiss, Robert J. (1992) Structural Geology. New York :
W.H. Freeman.

2. Billings, Marland P. (1972) Structural Geology (third ed.),
New York: Prentice Hall, 606 pages.

>>>>>Personally, I believe this is ludicrous and the
>>>>>patterns would have been random if what you
>>>>>had said was true.

Joint patterns very commonly are not random. Many can
show very spectacular parallelism and even spacing. The
regularity of the spacing and nonradonness of joints fail to
prove any sort of intelligent design involved in their origin
whether it be either jointing in a peridotite "ark" or
orthogonal jointing that people often mistakes for man-
made blocks. Again, there is a good section on jointing by:

1. Twiss, Robert J. (1992) Structural Geology. New York :
W.H. Freeman.

>>>>>But of course, I'll let you believe what you want to
>>>>>believe, even if it sounds silly. what you had said
>>>>>was true. But of course, I'll let you believe what you
>>>>>want to believe, even if it sounds silly.

In this case, it is claim that the peridotite syncline that a
geologically challenged Mr. Wyatt insists on calling an
"ark" that sounds silly to me. Unfortunately, his beliefs
blinds so much to the facts of the matter that "ark," that
of course, I'll just let him believe what he want to believe,
even if it sounds silly. Mr. Waytt and his "ark" is just
what atheists need to paint all Christians as silly fools.

>>>>>But since the real Mt Sinai has been found by Ron
>>>>>Wyatt, and you have samples of brimestone in
>>>>>your possession, I suggest that you reconsider.
>>>>>
>>>>>JM

...... stuff snipped ......

Sulfur is found in the caprock of Louisiana salt domes.
Maybe either Avery or Weeks Island could have Mt. Sinai? :-)
Maybe Louisiana is called "Gods country" for a good reason
after all. :-) Sulfur occurs all sorts of places. Its presence
at any place proves nothing.

>A doctor friend of mine check on this claim and went and
>research this claim and couldn't find any deposits of
>sulfur that looked anything like this. And as Fasold said,
>the deposits do exist and they did fall from the sky.

I love these anonymous "friends" and "specialists" that
appear out of nowhere with equally undocumented data
and specimens. To be taken seriously, person has to give
details as to what was found, where was it found, and who
found it. Also, what stratigraphic or archaeologic context
is there to determine the age of any such sulfur deposits,
presuming that they even exist?

>And there are ashen cities there. And if you don't believe
>they're cities, you have to explain the huge structured ash
>at these five sites, one near Masada.

They lie in an area full of earth quake faults and have been
fought over again and again for the last few thousand years.
Finding cities leveled by earthquakes, invaders, and fires
is to be expected.

In Message ID <1016.380T6...@cuci.nl>
<mccoy-jm wrote:
>In article <1016.380T6...@cuci.nl>,
>"Marc Geerlings " <mg...@please.no.spam> wrote:

>> jm wrote:
>> >Will the cracks form like this?
>> Hey look a rocket!
>>
>> > | | | | /
>> > | | | |__|________|_____/_______
>> > | | | | |_________________|_______
>> > | | | | | | \
>> > | | | | \
>>
>>
>> Quick, call von Daniken. It seems Wyatt has found one
>>of the rocketships of his Gods!

>I guess humor is the last vestige of someone who wants
>to change the subject (because he lost the argument).
>JM

Given the silly statements that Wyatt and company have
made such levity is understandable. When a person makes
statements that show that they are very ill-informed and
naive about a discipline like geology and are proud of it,
it naturally engenders considerable humor.

Getting back on the subject, joints which McCoy and Wyatt
call "cracks," can form patterns as McCoy illustrates above.
Good textbook in structural geology clearly illustrates that
can happen. Regularity of spacing or pattern in the case
of joints fails to indicate that humans or any other
intelligent designer was involved in making the joints.

Again, jointing is discussed in:

1. Twiss, Robert J. (1992) Structural Geology. New York :
W.H. Freeman.

and the interpretation of jointing, as quoted above, at the
so-called "ark" of Wyatt is dicussed at:

http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/bogus.html

Sincerely Yours,
Keith Littleton
litt...@vnet.net
New Orleans, LA

david...@proaxis.com

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Apr 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/7/98

to

In article <352217d2...@news2.vol.com>,

fasold; that's becausewyatt hasn't the guts to bring one to the surface or
hasn'the nanpower to lift it. istead ofa chariot wheel it's probably a four
spoked ralroad whee coveredin yellow/gold algi [sp] used as a mushroom anchor
for bouys for the ferry boat slip less than 200 feet awt, ohh... ron didn't
tell you that. hey maybe the ferry wasused as a camera barge for Heststons
movie and they just dumped everthing ???? /fasold [ya now, i don't i really
believe my bd typing can be blamed on my tumor, do krybosrds ever go nuts,
espcislly fyet you cleamn them with windex? ha ha. fasold/ going crazy but
still honest. ron wytt, we hasd a great time exploring togrther, like to hsve
a coffe with you in istanbul, but where do you come up with these stories...
chariot wheels in the red sea. gimme break/ df

david...@proaxis.com

unread,

Apr 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/7/98

to

In article <352217d2...@news2.vol.com>,
sh...@fanatics.com wrote:
>
> Hey, John McCoy! Why didn't you answer my questions about Ron Wyatt
> and his chariot wheels in the Red Sea? You really should give a
> reason. Since you haven't answered me (or other people, I gather)
> everyone thinks you're cowardly and dishonest.
>
> Now you're talking to new people about some new subject. Is that what
> you do when you loose an argument, run away? Do you not have the
> courage to admit when you're wrong?
>

fasold; that's becausewyatt hasn't the guts to bring one to the surface or
hasn'the nanpower to lift it. istead ofa chariot wheel it's probably a four
spoked ralroad whee coveredin yellow/gold algi [sp] used as a mushroom anchor
for bouys for the ferry boat slip less than 200 feet awt, ohh... ron didn't
tell you that. hey maybe the ferry wasused as a camera barge for Heststons
movie and they just dumped everthing ???? /fasold [ya now, i don't i really
believe my bd typing can be blamed on my tumor, do krybosrds ever go nuts,
espcislly fyet you cleamn them with windex? ha ha. fasold/ going crazy but
still honest. ron wytt, we hasd a great time exploring togrther, like to hsve
a coffe with you in istanbul, but where do you come up with these stories...

chariot wheels in the red sea. gimme a break/ df

The Dodo

unread,

Apr 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/7/98

to

On Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:10:45 -0600, david...@proaxis.com wrote:

>In article <352217d2...@news2.vol.com>,
> sh...@fanatics.com wrote:
>>
>> Hey, John McCoy! Why didn't you answer my questions about Ron Wyatt
>> and his chariot wheels in the Red Sea? You really should give a
>> reason. Since you haven't answered me (or other people, I gather)
>> everyone thinks you're cowardly and dishonest.
>>
>> Now you're talking to new people about some new subject. Is that what
>> you do when you loose an argument, run away? Do you not have the
>> courage to admit when you're wrong?
>>
>
>fasold; that's becausewyatt hasn't the guts to bring one to the surface or
>hasn'the nanpower to lift it. istead ofa chariot wheel it's probably a four
>spoked ralroad whee coveredin yellow/gold algi [sp] used as a mushroom anchor
>for bouys for the ferry boat slip less than 200 feet awt, ohh... ron didn't
>tell you that. hey maybe the ferry wasused as a camera barge for Heststons
>movie and they just dumped everthing ???? /fasold [ya now, i don't i really
>believe my bd typing can be blamed on my tumor, do krybosrds ever go nuts,
>espcislly fyet you cleamn them with windex? ha ha. fasold/ going crazy but
>still honest. ron wytt, we hasd a great time exploring togrther, like to hsve
>a coffe with you in istanbul, but where do you come up with these stories...

>chariot wheels in the red sea. gimme break/ df

>
>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

Several years ago, I heard this story about ancient Egyptian militaria being
discovered under the Red Sea...the scientists were rather excited. Needless
to say, I believe.

Claude Martins

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Apr 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/7/98

to

On Tue, 07 Apr 1998 07:58:21 GMT, mauriti...@hotmail.com (The
Dodo) wrote:

>Several years ago, I heard this story about ancient Egyptian militaria being
>discovered under the Red Sea...the scientists were rather excited. Needless
>to say, I believe.

Dodo, I'd like you to meet a certain nameless fellow....

--
Claude Martins, "Timberwolf", Dept of Comp Sci, York Univ, Ont, Canada
-= Visit The Wolf Lair at http://www.ariel.cs.yorku.ca/~martins =-
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent
the universe."
- Carl Sagan, Cosmos