Statement to AAPC on Wallace Stevens poetry on The Betty Blog
George Dance
attempt to archive it in its own thread.
<Forward:>
On Feb 19, 6:08 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> Btw, have you taken down your pathetic, lying, moronic Web site
> (hosted in the US) where you abuse US copyright law by stealing
> Wallace Stevens's copyright poems?
>
> Hint: Lawyers have already been consulted about your Wallace Stevens
> thiefsite.
Then I'll have to assume the matter could be in litigation, and not
comment on it publicly. So I'll have to ignore and/or snip whatever
else you have to say about it, in this message and in the future.
Now that you're aware of that, any further usenet posts by you on the
subject can only be regarded as pure trolling.
=z=
at least you're not appearing before congress...you know how big a
bunch of assholes they can be....of course there’s always the 5th....
Will Dockery
> attempt to archive it in its own thread.
>
> <Forward:>
>
> On Feb 19, 6:08 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Btw, have you taken down your pathetic, lying, moronic Web site
> > (hosted in the US) where you abuse US copyright law by stealing
> > Wallace Stevens's copyright poems?
>
> > Hint: Lawyers have already been consulted about your Wallace Stevens
> > thiefsite.
>
> Then I'll have to assume the matter could be in litigation, and not
> comment on it publicly.
Another situation I missed earlier, and assume that now is not the
time to ask about it...
So I'll have to ignore and/or snip whatever
> else you have to say about it, in this message and in the future.
>
> Now that you're aware of that, any further usenet posts by you on the
> subject can only be regarded as pure trolling.
--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
George Dance
> On Feb 19, 9:31 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I posted this today in a different thread. This second post is an
> > attempt to archive it in its own thread.
>
> > <Forward:>
>
> > On Feb 19, 6:08 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > Btw, have you taken down your pathetic, lying, moronic Web site
> > > (hosted in the US) where you abuse US copyright law by stealing
> > > Wallace Stevens's copyright poems?
>
> > > Hint: Lawyers have already been consulted about your Wallace Stevens
> > > thiefsite.
>
> > Then I'll have to assume the matter could be in litigation, and not
> > comment on it publicly.
>
> Another situation I missed earlier, and assume that now is not the
> time to ask about it...
>
There was previously some discussion of the details in a thread
called, "Blogs vs. Groups". You can begin with this message
http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/72983d6a916121e2?hl=en
and read downthread from that.
I'd prefer that those who have further questions about the situation
put them as comments on my blog, and I'll answer them there as best I
can.
Will Dockery
> On Feb 19, 9:39 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Feb 19, 9:31 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > > I posted this today in a different thread. This second post is an
> > > attempt to archive it in its own thread.
>
> > > <Forward:>
>
> > > On Feb 19, 6:08 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > > Btw, have you taken down your pathetic, lying, moronic Web site
> > > > (hosted in the US) where you abuse US copyright law by stealing
> > > > Wallace Stevens's copyright poems?
>
> > > > Hint: Lawyers have already been consulted about your Wallace Stevens
> > > > thiefsite.
>
> > > Then I'll have to assume the matter could be in litigation, and not
> > > comment on it publicly.
>
> > Another situation I missed earlier, and assume that now is not the
> > time to ask about it...
>
> There was previously some discussion of the details in a thread
> called, "Blogs vs. Groups". You can begin with this message
>
>
> and read downthread from that.
>
> I'd prefer that those who have further questions about the situation
> put them as comments on my blog, and I'll answer them there as best I
> can.
Sounds good, I'm already signed up there.
not ggamble
>
Or by the other cheerleaders, I'm sure.
> A few years ago, I wanted to use a Yeats quote in a science fiction
> piece I was intending to submit to a publisher for
> an upcoming small anthology. He and I have a good professional
> relationship and the piece was coming out well, so
> I was pretty confident it would be accepted, and thought it might be
> worth it to buy the right to use the quote.
>
> I contacted the firm that represents the deceased author. They wanted
> about $500.
>
> Had I used Yeats's words without their permission, I could possibly
> have gotten my friend and myself in a lot of trouble.
>
So use it now. Yeats died in 1939, which makes his work p.d. even in
your country.
> As I think about your use of Wallace Stevens's words, I'm reminded of
> your words here. Knowing that I've been published under the name
> 'Cythera,' you still took it upon yourself to put out on the www that
> I had supposedly 'forged.'
backthread; which you did.
> The threads
> to look at for that are Leaves and The Christabel Project.
> Sometimes when you post, you use fake names
You also use a 'fake name,' I notice. In fact, all the people
complaining about my use of 'fake names' use fake names, I've noticed
(though 'Meat Plow' does sometimes insist that's his real name).
> to protect your
> reputation.
>
> What's up with this, George?
With which? My telling PJ that his writing about an issue I can't
comment on would be trolling; my pointing out in the past (once) that
you altered some backthread (once); or my use of an alias on usenet?
> You have a fucking nerve, I'll give you
> that, but where's your integrity and empathy?
George Dance
> On Feb 20, 12:22 pm, <bestof.hammy...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 20, 2:56 pm, Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 19, 6:31 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > I posted this today in a different thread. This second post is an
> > > > attempt to archive it in its own thread.
>
> > > > <Forward:>
>
> > > > On Feb 19, 6:08 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > > > Btw, have you taken down your pathetic, lying, moronic Web site
> > > > > (hosted in the US) where you abuse US copyright law by stealing
> > > > > Wallace Stevens's copyright poems?
>
> > > > > Hint: Lawyers have already been consulted about your Wallace Stevens
> > > > > thiefsite.
>
> > > > Then I'll have to assume the matter could be in litigation, and not
> > > > comment on it publicly. So I'll have to ignore and/or snip whatever
> > > > else you have to say about it, in this message and in the future.
>
> > > > Now that you're aware of that, any further usenet posts by you on the
> > > > subject can only be regarded as pure trolling.
>
> > > They will not be regarded as such by me.
>
> > Or by the other cheerleaders, I'm sure.
>
>
> > > A few years ago, I wanted to use a Yeats quote in a science fiction
> > > piece I was intending to submit to a publisher for
> > > an upcoming small anthology. He and I have a good professional
> > > relationship and the piece was coming out well, so
> > > I was pretty confident it would be accepted, and thought it might be
> > > worth it to buy the right to use the quote.
>
> > > I contacted the firm that represents the deceased author. They wanted
> > > about $500.
>
> > > Had I used Yeats's words without their permission, I could possibly
> > > have gotten my friend and myself in a lot of trouble.
>
> > So use it now. Yeats died in 1939, which makes his work p.d. even in
> > your country.
>
>
> > > As I think about your use of Wallace Stevens's words, I'm reminded of
> > > your words here. Knowing that I've been published under the name
> > > 'Cythera,' you still took it upon yourself to put out on the www that
> > > I had supposedly 'forged.'
>
> > backthread; which you did.
>
oh, probably. It's only when I asked you about it, and you ignored
that message, that I used the 'f'-word.
> You accused another woman of forgery also: a woman with an Irish name.
> Siobhan?
>
Yes, I have; you've been reading up on me, I see. Siobhan Medeiros, a
socialist who posts on can.politics, once had someone post-edit one of
her posts so she said something like, "capitalism is the best economic
system'; in retaliation, she forged rewrote to have him saying
something like, 'I'm a racist who likes to fuck farm animals.'
> Not too long ago, you edited one of my posts. Though I asked you why,
> I don't recall a response, but I sometimes miss posts to me. Did you
> tell me why you changed my text?
>
I don't recall anything about that. i don't go around changing text
deliberately on anyone but the forgers on the group, and (as I made it
clear even last summer), I don't consider you one.
> > > The threads
> > > to look at for that are Leaves and The Christabel Project.
> > > Sometimes when you post, you use fake names
>
> > You also use a 'fake name,' I notice.
>
> What's 'fake' or fake about it?
>
It's not your real name -- the one you were born with, the one on your
ID, the one you use in real life, etc. -- is it?
> <snip>
Will Dockery
That sounds just like a forgery to me, although I've never read
can.politics yet...
> > Not too long ago, you edited one of my posts. Though I asked you why,
> > I don't recall a response, but I sometimes miss posts to me. Did you
> > tell me why you changed my text?
>
> I don't recall anything about that. i don't go around changing text
> deliberately on anyone but the forgers on the group, and (as I made it
> clear even last summer), I don't consider you one.
>
> > > > The threads
> > > > to look at for that are Leaves and The Christabel Project.
> > > > Sometimes when you post, you use fake names
>
> > > You also use a 'fake name,' I notice.
>
> > What's 'fake' or fake about it?
>
> It's not your real name -- the one you were born with, the one on your
> ID, the one you use in real life, etc. -- is it?> <snip>
Heh... this sounds just like the discussion with Meat Plow earlier
today...
George Dance
> On Feb 20, 2:15 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 20, 5:03 pm, Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > > > As I think about your use of Wallace Stevens's words, I'm reminded of
> > > > > your words here. Knowing that I've been published under the name
> > > > > 'Cythera,' you still took it upon yourself to put out on the www that
> > > > > I had supposedly 'forged.'
>
> > > > backthread; which you did.
>
> > > The caret was probably accidentally erased by me.
>
> > oh, probably.
>
> > It's only when I asked you about it, and you ignored
> > that message, that I used the 'f'-word.
>
>
> > > You accused another woman of forgery also: a woman with an Irish name.
> > > Siobhan?
>
> > Yes, I have; you've been reading up on me, I see. Siobhan Medeiros, a
> > socialist who posts on can.politics, once had someone post-edit one of
> > her posts so she said something like, "capitalism is the best economic
> > system'; in retaliation, she forged rewrote to have him saying
> > something like, 'I'm a racist who likes to fuck farm animals.'
>
> > > Not too long ago, you edited one of my posts. Though I asked you why,
> > > I don't recall a response, but I sometimes miss posts to me. Did you
> > > tell me why you changed my text?
>
> > I don't recall anything about that. i don't go around changing text
> > deliberately on anyone but the forgers on the group,
>
> > and (as I made it clear even last summer), I don't consider you one.
>
> even in your post of 12:22 pm PST you stick
> with your accusation. Scroll up.
>
I made it clear the very day you brought the allegation to AAPC:
Oct. 4: "Ok: you did forge a bit of backthread, and I called you out
on that.But that doesn't make you a 'forger,' any more than writing
just one poem would make someone a poet."
Message-ID: <21fd8bbb-
e84f-4a7ea38...@l34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
If nothing else, surely you remember the fun your friend had with
that: Immediately telling the group that I'd plagiarized Leonard
Cohen, but that she wasn't calling me a plagiarist?
snip - cont.
George Dance
> On Feb 20, 2:15 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > On Feb 20, 5:03 pm, Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Now, here is the url to my post as it was before you 'forged
> backthread':
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/6348dde67...
>
> Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
> From: Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com>
> Local: Wed, Feb 3 2010 2:19 pm
> Subject: Re: The "Groups" of AAPC (was: What is plagiarism & what is
> just "borrowing"?)
>
> and here is my reply in which I ask you to explain why you 'forged
> backthread' to read, "Because of the I also wonder why you need
> to..."
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/34b7b38f6...
>
> You edited my post. I'll try asking again: may I please know why?
>
I don't remember. From reading the posts, here's what you said:
"Since I've never used it, I wonder why you link me to it through my
supposed 'cheerleader' activities. I also wonder why you need to
define me and not see me as an individual."
To which I replied:
"Because the success of your whole game -- hence your own need -- lies
in defining the SP clique as a bunch of individuals who just happen to
agree: that you're all skilled writers, that a newbie's work is
worthless crap, or whatever."
It looks like I began overtyping with my cursor in the wrong place --
on top of your quote -- and didn't correct it before posting. Why?
Well, perhaps I was jumping back and forth from post to post, as here,
to answer every charge you were coming up with, and overlooked an
edit.
In any case, it doesn't look deliberate -- if I wanted to distort what
you'd said, I'd have simply deleted your one word 'never' -- so I'm
going to chalk it up to an accident. You want an apology? No problemo:
I apologize for accidetally changing your post in my backthread.
> <snip>
George Dance
> On Feb 20, 2:15 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:> On Feb 20, 5:03 pm, Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > > > You also use a 'fake name,' I notice.
>
> > > What's 'fake' or fake about it?
>
> > It's not your real name -- the one you were born with, the one on your
> > ID, the one you use in real life, etc. -- is it?
>
> fake?
Not quite. It's 'fake' because it's as fake as my own two nyms, which
you have called fake. (That's what the single quotes are for: to
indicate that that use of the word 'fake' is someone else's: yours in
this case.) So, 'fake' would be the same as fake in that case, when
you called my nyms fake (given you were being honest, of course.)
OTOH, fake, when I type it without quotes, means what I'd call fake.
And that does not appear to be exactly the same as what you'd call
fake.
=z=
> On Feb 20, 7:40 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 20, 9:17 pm, Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 20, 2:15 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:> On Feb 20, 5:03 pm, Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > <snip>
>
> > > > > > You also use a 'fake name,' I notice.
>
> > > > > What's 'fake' or fake about it?
>
> > > > It's not your real name -- the one you were born with, the one on your
> > > > ID, the one you use in real life, etc. -- is it?
>
> > > Well, you tell us. You already said it's 'fake.' Is that the same as
> > > fake?
>
> > Not quite. It's 'fake' because it's as fake as my own two nyms, which
> > you have called fake.
>
> In what way isn't it?
> Cards on table time: show us what you've got.
>
> <snip>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
?…so what’s your problem
i’m an alcoholicrioncoracker
well, you going to have to fill
these questioners first…then
the doctor will assess your issue...
!...next....
George Dance
And it's gone the same way; she wants me to spend the night arguing
with her over whether her name is Cythera or not, and trying to prove
to her satisfaction that it isn't. Fortunately Meat Plow fucked up
around that, and i didn't have to spend the afternoon doing it (which
is probably why it's being tried again).
I don't see the best way to answer her at this point, or even any
point in doing so -- so, since she's demanding proof "NOW", I think
it's best to just not reply to her for a bit. Let her discuss it with
=z=, if she wants. (Who knows, that might drift into an argument about
whether =z= is his real name; that might show the absurdity of it
all.)
=z=
>
> - Show quoted text -
my real name is shaun hull george....i thought you knew that...
-thanks-
8 (
=z=
>
> - Show quoted text -
sorrry man...i just got it....
=z=
>
> - Show quoted text -
dammitt, did i just say my name was; shaull hull george?
?...what i meant to say was...=z=
George Dance
I did, Shaun (or at least believed it) ; I've been on your site, and I
have your poem for submission to the blog. It's just that I'm in a
silly position with Cythera, who wants to argue with me about what her
real name is; I making a joke as a reference to that.
If i really had a 'team,' and you were on it, then I'd have ordered
you to get into the same thing with her, insisting that your name was
really =z=. Alas, there's no team on this side; or maybe it's for the
best.
George Dance
And I just wrote about it, before reading this message of yours. oh,
well; stuff happens.
George Dance
That's the spirit, soldier. Now get in there and take that hill for
God and Country.
ggamble
On 20-Feb-2010, George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> she wants me to spend the night arguing
> with her
> i didn't have to spend the afternoon doing it
I see you have a full and satisfying life.
Maybe if you got offline for a while, you'd find something to write about.
But then, maybe not.
ggamble
On 20-Feb-2010, "=z=" <shul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> my real name is shaun hull george.
Are you related to Chief Dan George, or do you just not know how to use a
comma?
George Dance
>
> A person who forges even once is a forger.
>
That's so simplistic. There's a huge difference between a child who
signs his parent's name on a letter, once, and someone who makes a
living stealing and cashing other people's pension cheques. To call
them both 'forgers' is to make an absurd moral equivalence.
Similarly, though less extremely, there's a big difference between
forging backthread -- altering someone else's text in your reply, to
make it look as though they said something else -- and account
forgery -- forging someone else's account info and then posting
messages under their name.
>
> > If nothing else, surely you remember the fun your friend
>
> I'm on my own here.
>
That's exactly how I see it for myself. Yet there's plenty of people
telling me about my "friends" and my "team," too.
> > had with
> > that: Immediately telling the group that I'd plagiarized Leonard
> > Cohen, but that she wasn't calling me a plagiarist?
>
Karla likes you and always tries to defend you. That looks true
independent of whether or not there really is such a thing as the
Cheerleaders. Unlike her friends the Players, to which you're of value
as only a pawn in the game.
George Dance
> On Feb 20, 7:40 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > On Feb 20, 9:17 pm, Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 20, 2:15 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:> On Feb 20, 5:03 pm, Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > <snip>
>
> > > > > > You also use a 'fake name,' I notice.
>
> > > > > What's 'fake' or fake about it?
>
> > > > It's not your real name -- the one you were born with, the one on your
> > > > ID, the one you use in real life, etc. -- is it?
>
> > > Well, you tell us. You already said it's 'fake.' Is that the same as
> > > fake?
>
> > Not quite. It's 'fake' because it's as fake as my own two nyms, which
> > you have called fake.
>
I'm saying I think it isn't. It isn't a claim I'd make; but it is
something I believe.
> In what way isn't it?
> Cards on table time: show us what you've got.
>
Not a lot.
1) It certainly doesn't look like your full name. The only people I
know who still use one-word names are Afghanis, and that's not an
Afghan name.
2) Spelling of it has been wildly inconsistent, with sometimes a
capital C, and sometimes a lower-case c. Dreams & Nightmares has use
both C (#76) and c (#71, #78). Illumen used C, while Rhysling
(reprinting the same poem) used c. Locus used c. That's not something
that magazines do to authors' real names, or that anyone would stand
for if it were done to his real name. Either you're varying the
spelling yourself, or you don't care: neither of which would be the
case for your actual name.
3) There's plenty of hearsay testimony floating around the group that
you've said that you adopted it as a pen-name from Baudelaire's poem,
"Voyage to Cythera". I haven't found a message from you to that
effect, but (without prejudice) failure to find a message X written by
you is no evidence that you didn't write X. I do remember you writing
about Baudelaire's poem -- that was what got me to read it for the
first time -- but I don't remember whether you said anything about a
pen-name in there. Failure to find that message makes me think there
actually is a removed message along the line of the hearsay
allegations.
4) Absolutely no counter-evidence.
That's it. What are your cards?
> <snip>
not ggamble
>
> I see you have a full and satisfying life.
>
I'll bet it stings.
ggamble
You'd lose.
But, you're used to that.
ggamble
So, you spent that entire morning on it after all.
You lead such a full and satisfying life.
=z=
>
> - Show quoted text -
?…gary, how come everyone keeps talking about this "stinging"
crap...?...did you get stung by a shitload a bees or something
worse...?…i just would like to know so i can try to avoid that noise…
~yessa~
Will Dockery
Cythera could be her first name or even last name, I suppose?
not ggamble
Just an hour or two; and on something more productive than replying to
a troll.
> You lead such a full and satisfying life.
Stings that much, eh?
Will Dockery
That's so typical of Cythera... always "demanding" something,
meanwhile delivering nothing, in fact making it a point of never
making a response to questions on any of her claims.
Such as her bullshit that some (un-named) work of mine was a "re-do"
of a famous singer's work, the specific pieces (mine or his) were
never named... Cythera's response was to huff something like "I don't
have to answer you..." (not a direct quote, there, but close).
> it's best to just not reply to her for a bit. Let her discuss it with
> =z=, if she wants. (Who knows, that might drift into an argument about
> whether =z= is his real name; that might show the absurdity of it
> all.)
It isn't too far-fetched that "Cythera" may be her first name or
something...
George Dance
> On Feb 21, 9:14 am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 21, 1:07 am, Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 20, 7:40 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > On Feb 20, 9:17 pm, Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Feb 20, 2:15 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:> On Feb 20, 5:03 pm, Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > > > > You also use a 'fake name,' I notice.
>
> > > > > > > What's 'fake' or fake about it?
>
> > > > > > It's not your real name -- the one you were born with, the one on your
> > > > > > ID, the one you use in real life, etc. -- is it?
>
> > > > > Well, you tell us. You already said it's 'fake.' Is that the same as
> > > > > fake?
>
> > > > Not quite. It's 'fake' because it's as fake as my own two nyms, which
> > > > you have called fake.
>
> > > Are you claiming Cythera isn't my name?
>
> > I'm saying I think it isn't. It isn't a claim I'd make; but it is
> > something I believe.
>
> > > In what way isn't it?
> > > Cards on table time: show us what you've got.
>
> > Not a lot.
> > 1) It certainly doesn't look like your full name.
>
Not your full name, IMO.
>
> > The only people I
> > know who still use one-word names are Afghanis, and that's not an
> > Afghan name.
>
> > 2) Spelling of it has been wildly inconsistent, with sometimes a
> > capital C, and sometimes a lower-case c. Dreams & Nightmares has use
> > both C (#76) and c (#71, #78). Illumen used C, while Rhysling
> > (reprinting the same poem) used c. Locus used c. That's not something
> > that magazines do to authors' real names, or that anyone would stand
> > for if it were done to his real name. Either you're varying the
> > spelling yourself, or you don't care: neither of which would be the
> > case for your actual name.
>
> You're not making sense, george.
>
Speak for yourself only.
> > 3) There's plenty of hearsay testimony floating around the group that
> > you've said that you adopted it as a pen-name from Baudelaire's poem,
>
> none.
> At some point z said he didn't dislike my name, and I said I would
> like to show you Wallace Fowlie's translation of Voyage to Cythera.
Not the post in question (see * below).
snip
>
> > "Voyage to Cythera". I haven't found a message from you to that
> > effect, but (without prejudice) failure to find a message X written by
> > you is no evidence that you didn't write X.
>
*
> > I do remember you writing
> > about Baudelaire's poem -- that was what got me to read it for the
> > first time -- but I don't remember whether you said anything about a
> > pen-name in there.
>
> > Failure to find that message makes me think there
> > actually is a removed message along the line of the hearsay
> > allegations.
>
> I removed the message after reading about copyright infringement: I
> had posted Will Schmitz's modern, loose translation
> of VtC.
Voila:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/305416a76...
>
That's not the translation I remember reading. That was horrible.
> > 4) Absolutely no counter-evidence.
>
> I don't have to say anything: you're the one who has to prove your
> case.
While you don't have to "prove your case" that it is your real name?
Why the double standard?
> > That's it. What are your cards?
>
> <snip>
So you've got nothng.
Fred Sukknoodles
> Cythera could be her first name or even last name, I suppose?
Or it cold be no name.
You fucking people never think things through. You're like a bunch of
retarded monkeys shoving their fingers up their asses in turn because
the monkey next to you just did it.
Do yourself a big favor... next time one of those nice people in their
white coats comes into your cell, let them know your meds need adjusted
again.
Now go dig up Katherine and have your usual jolly good time with her.
Will Dockery
Typical of Cythera, she constantly asks questions and demands answers,
yet never answers anything asked of her in return.
Will Dockery
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:47:18 -0800 (PST), Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> Cythera could be her first name or even last name, I suppose?
>
> Or it cold be no name.
Maybe...
not ggamble
>
>
> You wrote, "You also use a 'fake name,' I notice."
> Still waiting for your proof.
I showed you why I thought that (and you snipped it).
OTOH, you haven't shown me any evidence that Cythera is your real
name. So I'm the one now waiting.
George Dance
Well, maybe she means she doesn't have to show it's her real name,
because she's not saying that it is her real name. That's fair, I
suppose, since I can't see her saying so in this thread. So let's add
to the list one more reason for thinking it's a 'fake name,' (s she
calls nyms (at least those not used by her friends):
5) Cythera won't say whether it's her real name or not.
To wrap us this nonsense of hers, I should add that, since there's no
one denying that it is a 'fake name,' then there's no one to prove
anything to, anyway.
not ggamble
> On Feb 22, 3:34 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 21, 3:15 pm, Will Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo
>
> > > >Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > >George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > >>>Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > You also use a 'fake name,' I notice.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > What's 'fake' or fake about it?
>
> > > > > > > > > > It's not your real name -- the one you were born with, the one on your
> > > > > > > > > > ID, the one you use in real life, etc. -- is it?
>
> > > > > > > > > Well, you tell us.
>
>
> > > > > > I'm saying I think it isn't. It isn't a claim I'd make; but it is
> > > > > > something I believe.
>
> > > > > > > In what way isn't it?
> > > > > > > Cards on table time: show us what you've got.
>
>
> > > > > case.
>
> > > > While you don't have to "prove your case" that it is your real name?
> > > > Why the double standard?
>
> court.
>
Actually, court is the only place I can think of where I'd have to
prove something and you wouldn't. But we aren't in court. We're having
a conversation, in which you're challenging something I believe and
refusing to even say whether or not you believe it yourself. I
certainly have nothing to prove to you in this case.
> <snip>
>
> > Well, maybe she means she doesn't have to show it's her real name,
> > because she's not saying that it is her real name. That's fair, I
> > suppose, since I can't see her saying so in this thread.
>
> > So let's add
> > to the list one more reason for thinking it's a 'fake name,' (s she
> > calls nyms (at least those not used by her friends):
>
Which, like the other four reasons, doesn't disappear just because you
snipped it.
> I don't use the term 'nyms'
Nor did I say you did; as the sentence makes clear (or would if not
for the typo you pounced on), you call them 'fake names' (at least if
someone you dislike uses them).
> you make this up as you go along
> as for my friends:
>
> "I tell you we're as close as can be, man"
>
> The walrus was Paul
Oh, right: the song you "proved" (simply by alleging; IOW, by your
friends' method) that I'd never heard of.
High Number
>
> I posted this today in a different thread. This second post is an
> attempt to archive it in its own thread.
>
> <Forward:>
>
> On Feb 19, 6:08 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > Btw, have you taken down your pathetic, lying, moronic Web site
> > (hosted in the US) where you abuse US copyright law by stealing
> > Wallace Stevens's copyright poems?
> >
> > Hint: Lawyers have already been consulted about your Wallace Stevens
> > thiefsite.
>
> Then I'll have to assume the matter could be in litigation, and not
> comment on it publicly. So I'll have to ignore and/or snip whatever
> else you have to say about it, in this message and in the future.
>
> Now that you're aware of that, any further usenet posts by you on the
> subject can only be regarded as pure trolling.
George J. Dance
Hieronymous Corey
George J. Dance
> Why do you hate poetry?
Hieronymous Corey
George J. Dance
> You appear to hate poetry, so I'm asking why?
Hieronymous Corey
George J. Dance
> Okay, if you say so. Thanks.
Hieronymous Corey
it appears to me that you either hate poets or
poetry, and I know you've never shown any
particular love and respect for me and mine,
so that's what leads me to think you must hate
poetry, because you don't know me personally.
George J. Dance
It's true that I don't promote any of your poems on my blog. You know why that is; it has nothing to do with my opinions. It's true that I don't have a biography of you on my wiki. You know why that is; again, it has nothing to do with me. It's true that I don't often criticize your poetry - you don't respond well to criticism, don't appear to like it, and certainly wouldn't dream of using any of it.
As far as I can see, you want me to leave you alone to do your own thing, and that's exactly what I do for you. What more "love and respect" could you want?
Will Dockery
;)
Zod-The...@none.i2p
Hieronymous Corey
It's true that you don't promote my poems on your blog. Why that is has everything
to do with your opinions. It's true that you don't have a biography of me on your wiki.
Why that is has everything to do with you, personally. It's true that you don't often
criticize my poetry. That's because you don't like how I respond to your criticism.
We've corresponded in the same group for any number of years, yet despite several
overtures on my part, like sending you personal gifts and buying your book, we have
never established anything resembling a friendship or personal association of any sort.
I can't tell you why that is, but for whatever reason, I am not the type of person you get
along well with. The tenor of our interactions has always been combative, but I don't fight.
George J. Dance
> I'm talking about poetry in general, and using mine as a point of personal reference.
> It's true that you don't promote my poems on your blog. Why that is has everything
> to do with your opinions. It's true that you don't have a biography of me on your wiki.
> Why that is has everything to do with you, personally.
. It's true that you don't often
> criticize my poetry. That's because you don't like how I respond to your criticism.
> We've corresponded in the same group for any number of years, yet despite several
> overtures on my part, like sending you personal gifts and buying your book, we have
> never established anything resembling a friendship or personal association of any sort.
I 'm also grateful for the 3 chapbooks you sent me; to Mike Snider, for writing and self-publishing them. And yes, I'm even grateful to you, for the learning experience. It helped me understand exactly what, about me, made you decide to pull your poems off the blog and the article.
You sent me those "gifts" as an investment: you were trying to buy my "love and respect." It didn't work, and that made you angry; and that explains your later scorched-earth campaign against my blog and wiki.
That helped me understand, very well, the 'Doo nanny' story, when you tried the very same thing with Will. Again it didn't work, and you're still angry about it.
> I can't tell you why that is, but for whatever reason, I am not the type of person you get
> along well with.
> The tenor of our interactions has always been combative, but I don't fight.
Hieronymous Corey
You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. When I'm
angry, I'm incredible. When I'm incredible, no
one believes me, and that makes me very angry.
Will Dockery
https://www.pinterest.com/willdockery7/doo-nanny-scenes/
Hieronymous Corey
except to call it a humorous attempt to conflate an
emotion, anger, with a famous quote, "You wouldn't
like me when I'm angry." and the multiple meanings
of the word 'incredible', but it is certainly not what I'd
call a joke, because it's not funny if you think about it.
Michael Pendragon
Since George is still alive, it follows that you couldn't possibly have been angered by him. The same holds true for the rest of the members of AAPC -- and for anyone with whom you've ever had any personal interaction...
... unless there's a collection of mutilated bodies buried along Interstate 83.
Hieronymous Corey
it has nothing to do with me, because everybody who knows knows
I live near Exit 93 off of Interstate 95, which is not near Interstate 83,
and my car is simply incapable of transporting much of anything. A
collection of mutilated bodies is beyond its capacity. I suppose I could
borrow my son's truck, or mince the bodies in a wood chopper before
taking them from here to there, but that just sounds like a lot of work.
George J. Dance
Hieronymous Corey
George J. Dance
> I heard you the first time.
How about if I change the word "angry" to "vindictive" or something similar? Does that work for you?
Zod-The...@none.i2p
> > I'm talking about poetry in general, and using mine as a point of personal reference.
> > It's true that you don't promote my poems on your blog. Why that is has everything
> > to do with your opinions. It's true that you don't have a biography of me on your wiki.
> > Why that is has everything to do with you, personally.
>
> And what does it have to do with? Don't bother answering, that was a rhetorical question; we'll get into that down below.
>
>
> You respond by getting angry, and refusing to listen. That makes me frustrated - it's a total waste of time offering you criticism - and I don't like that, true.
>
>
> > We've corresponded in the same group for any number of years, yet despite several
> > overtures on my part, like sending you personal gifts and buying your book, we have
> > never established anything resembling a friendship or personal association of any sort.
>
> I am grateful to you for buying and then getting rid of my Garneau book - not because of what you did, but how you did it. You don't realize it, of course, but the way you got rid of the book - not throwing it out, but giving it to a library - was what got me onto the WorldCat. So you did something for me, though intentionally, and I'm grateful.
>
> I 'm also grateful for the 3 chapbooks you sent me; to Mike Snider, for writing and self-publishing them. And yes, I'm even grateful to you, for the learning experience. It helped me understand exactly what, about me, made you decide to pull your poems off the blog and the article.
>
> You sent me those "gifts" as an investment: you were trying to buy my "love and respect." It didn't work, and that made you angry; and that explains your later scorched-earth campaign against my blog and wiki.
>
> That helped me understand, very well, the 'Doo nanny' story, when you tried the very same thing with Will. Again it didn't work, and you're still angry about it.
>
> > I can't tell you why that is, but for whatever reason, I am not the type of person you get
> > along well with.
>
> I think I know exactly why it is (see above).
>
> > The tenor of our interactions has always been combative, but I don't fight.
>
> Of course it's combative. I like everyone, at first, but i don't like you because, rather than trying to earn my "love and respect," you tried to buy it. And you don't like me because you couldn't do that. There's nothing to fight, or even argue, over.
I a not a doctor so I may not have used the correct term for his condition......
Hieronymous Corey
"vindictive" or something similar, that's entirely up to
you. I can't argue with your perception of me, irrespective
of its inaccuracy. You're going to think what you're going
to think, and justify that thinking with more inaccurate thoughts
and flawed logic. I can't convince you otherwise. If you're ever
going to change your mind about me, you're going to have to
do it all by yourself. I can't help you with that. Too much work.
Zod-The...@none.i2p
Money can't buy him Love......
George J. Dance
Michael Pendragon
Will Dockery
;)
Hieronymous Corey
Zod-The...@none.i2p
Hieronymous Corey
Zod-The...@none.i2p
Hieronymous Corey
General Zod
Zod-The...@none.i2p
Ha ha ha.....................
Z...@none.i2p
> > I'm talking about poetry in general, and using mine as a point of personal reference.
> > It's true that you don't promote my poems on your blog. Why that is has everything
> > to do with your opinions. It's true that you don't have a biography of me on your wiki.
> > Why that is has everything to do with you, personally.
>
> And what does it have to do with? Don't bother answering, that was a rhetorical question; we'll get into that down below.
>
>
> You respond by getting angry, and refusing to listen. That makes me frustrated - it's a total waste of time offering you criticism - and I don't like that, true.
>
>
> > We've corresponded in the same group for any number of years, yet despite several
> > overtures on my part, like sending you personal gifts and buying your book, we have
> > never established anything resembling a friendship or personal association of any sort.
>
> I am grateful to you for buying and then getting rid of my Garneau book - not because of what you did, but how you did it. You don't realize it, of course, but the way you got rid of the book - not throwing it out, but giving it to a library - was what got me onto the WorldCat. So you did something for me, though intentionally, and I'm grateful.
>
> I 'm also grateful for the 3 chapbooks you sent me; to Mike Snider, for writing and self-publishing them. And yes, I'm even grateful to you, for the learning experience. It helped me understand exactly what, about me, made you decide to pull your poems off the blog and the article.
>
> You sent me those "gifts" as an investment: you were trying to buy my "love and respect." It didn't work, and that made you angry; and that explains your later scorched-earth campaign against my blog and wiki.
>
> That helped me understand, very well, the 'Doo nanny' story, when you tried the very same thing with Will. Again it didn't work, and you're still angry about it.
>
> > I can't tell you why that is, but for whatever reason, I am not the type of person you get
> > along well with.
>
> I think I know exactly why it is (see above).
>
> > The tenor of our interactions has always been combative, but I don't fight.
>
> Of course it's combative. I like everyone, at first, but i don't like you because, rather than trying to earn my "love and respect," you tried to buy it. And you don't like me because you couldn't do that. There's nothing to fight, or even argue, over.
Hieronymous Corey
He don’t post here no more, but he sure ain’t dead yet.
Z...@none.i2p
> He don't post here no more, but he sure ain't dead yet.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.arts.poetry.comments/%22mike$20snider%22
Results for "mike snider" in alt.arts.poetry.comments Search all groups
Sorted by relevance Sort by date
Results: about 5 for "mike snider"