Mass Murdering Professor Was Fan Of Demonic "Game" Dungeons & Dragons
Sound of Trumpet
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2452886/posts
Suspect in slays fan of ‘Dungeons’ (Amy Bishop)
Boston Herald ^ | 2/16/10 | Laurel J. Sweet
Posted on 17 February 2010 01:53:17 by ruralvoter
Accused campus killer Amy Bishop was a devotee of Dungeons & Dragons -
just like Michael “Mucko” McDermott, the lone gunman behind the
devastating workplace killings at Edgewater Technology in Wakefield in
2000.
Bishop, now a University of Alabama professor, and her husband James
Anderson met and fell in love in a Dungeons & Dragons club while
biology students at Northeastern University in the early 1980s, and
were heavily into the fantasy role-playing board game, a source told
the Herald.
“They even acted this crap out,” the source said.
When questioned about it yesterday, Anderson, 45, a research scientist
in Huntsville, Ala., dismissed the egghead escape as “a passing
interest. It was a social thing more than anything else. It’s not the
crazy group people think they are.”
McDermott studied engineering at Northeastern in the late 1980s, but
Anderson said he never met him. Police seized two Dungeons & Dragons
books from McDermott’s Haverhill apartment after he shot seven co-
workers to death on Dec. 26, 2000.
The popular fantasy role-playing game has a long history of
controversy, with objections raised to its demonic and violent
elements. Some experts have cited the D&D backgrounds of people who
were later involved in violent crimes, while others say it just a
game. A federal appeals court recently upheld a prison ban on the game
in Wisconsin, where prison officials reportedly testified they were
afraid the game could promote “hostility, violence and escape
behavior.”
Quadibloc
quoted, in part:
> The popular fantasy role-playing game has a long history of
> controversy, with objections raised to its demonic and violent
> elements.
If you call "controversy" being objected to by people on the lunatic
fringe, yes.
John Savard
Michael Grosberg
wrote:
I have it on good sources that 100% of mass murderers wore shoes. The
nazis also wore shoes. Hitler swore by them, he was never caught
barefoot in public! I think we should ban shoes altogether, just to be
safe.
Jimbo
wrote:
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2452886/posts
>
> Suspect in slays fan of ‘Dungeons’ (Amy Bishop)
>
> Boston Herald ^ | 2/16/10 | Laurel J. Sweet
>
> Posted on 17 February 2010 01:53:17 by ruralvoter
>
> Accused campus killer Amy Bishop was a devotee of Dungeons & Dragons -
What has that to do with alt.atheism?
Jimbo
wrote:
Holy shit! I never saw that before!! I have to run out and launch a
world-wide media campaign to have shoes outlawed! I'll have to write
a best selling novel titled "Shoes: The Murder Connection", maybe even
start a reality shoe featuring people that live without shoes! Oh the
horrors of shoes!!!
Quadibloc
Well, you see, good healthy young boys go to church on Sundays and
enjoy themselves with healthy forms of recreation like football,
soccer, hockey and baseball.
Then there are these freaks and loners who don't make friends with
everyone else, and who think they're better than other people! Losers
like that end up involved in weird things! They might get confused by
foreign demagogues, and support radical ideologues who want to
overthrow our wonderful free enterprise system. Or they might still be
patriotic Americans, but take that good thing just a little too far,
and become violent white supremacists. They could even end up as
homosexuals!
Those are the kind of people who go around shooting up schools! And
they're also the ones who try to ridicule God-fearing Americans by
claiming that Darwinism is more "scientific" than the account of the
origin of life by the Creator of life Himself!
*This* is what that had to do with alt.atheism. If we could just ban
those awful TV shows like Star Trek, there would be less chances for
the forces of Satan to warp our kids' minds!
So, basically, it's like this - if it happens that a killer is found
to play D&D, then instead of this being taken as either
- maybe just a coincidence; a lot of people play D&D, or
- if, indeed, some maladjusted people are drawn to activities like
D&D, maybe we need to do something about bullying and cliquishness in
the schools,
no, by God, we'll use this evidence to justify a witch-hunt against
all the people who don't buy into our brand of conservative
Christianity, so that the Taliban will have nothing on us when it
comes to mind control!
So a declaration of war against atheists is definitely on topic for
alt.atheism, and you should recognize what the real agenda behind
Sound of Trumpet's posting is.
John Savard
Chris
There is speculation that Dr. Bishop never played the oboe while tap-
dancing in a zoot suit, either.
If you have never tap danced in a zoot suit while playing an oboe, you
are likely to be a mass murderer too!
Chris
Ilya2
wrote:
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2452886/posts
I clicked on Free Republic link to read the comments. Almost all
commenters think Laurel Sweet is an idiot.
Same on Boston Herald website, where it was originally published.
Ilya2
Actually, on Boston Herald website it seems to be 100%. I especially
liked this comment:
"I'm pretty sure that it is quite a stretch to be calling McDermott a
'devotee' of the D&D game in the same article where it mentions that
police seized two books on the game from his apartment. That would be
more 'passing interest that went nowhere'. In fact, I would take it as
far as 'thought about it and decided he didn't like it'.
You're off by a few orders of magnitude to use devotee. 20 books will
get you 'regular player' and perhaps 200 would qualify you for
devotee.
Thank you for playing, Laurel, you fail, please try again."
Mike Schilling
Laurel's alignment is "chaotic moron".
Boo Radley
">Michael Grosberg" <grosberg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:be2f60bc-8d7c-4482-ba46->ae374b...@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
BURN THE SHOES! SATAN LOVES SHOES! KILL ANYONE WEARING SHOES! ONWARD
CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!!!
I just hope that someone has the good common sense to keep shoes off their
children's feet. Jesus never wore shoes and neither should anyone else.
But I also heard that Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Janeane Garofalo and
Barack Obama breathe air. I am calling on all christians to stop breathing
air immediately, make sure everyone of your congregation know about this
call and immediately adhere to the law of Jesus. Jesus didn't need air, he
was god, god's son and a Zombie.
Ilya2
>
> What has that to do with alt.atheism?
In SoT's brain[1] atheism, communism, socialism, Islam, rock-and-roll,
D&D, contraceptives, homosexuality, mass murderers, wicca and Pokemon
(to name a few), all come from Satan and all are interchangeable.
[1]OK, in the game of whack-a-mole he keeps in place of brain
Syd M.
wrote:
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2452886/posts
>
> Suspect in slays fan of ‘Dungeons’ (Amy Bishop)
>
> Boston Herald ^ | 2/16/10 | Laurel J. Sweet
>
> Posted on 17 February 2010 01:53:17 by ruralvoter
>
> Accused campus killer Amy Bishop was a devotee of Dungeons & Dragons -
> just like Michael “Mucko” McDermott, the lone gunman behind the
> devastating workplace killings at Edgewater Technology in Wakefield in
> 2000.
>
Big deal, Sound Of Stupidity... Does that mean that all D&D's are
murder suspect?
My brother played the game, and he's far from a murderer.
PDW
MarkA
Follow the gourd!
--
MarkA
(This space temporarily unavailable)
Robert Carnegie
I'm not sure about the 100%, but I believe this woman didn't just hear
ordinary shoes. I think a cow was killed and those shoes were made of
the skin taken from its corpse.
Always the quiet ones, isn't it!
T Guy
> > What has that to do with alt.atheism?
(Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca>):
> Well, you see, good healthy young boys go to church on Sundays and
> enjoy themselves with healthy forms of recreation like football,
> soccer, hockey and baseball...
>
> *This* is what that had to do with alt.atheism. If we could just ban
> those awful TV shows like Star Trek, there would be less chances for
> the forces of Satan to warp our kids' minds!
>
> So, basically, it's like this - if it happens that a killer is found
> to play D&D, then instead of this being taken as either
>
> - maybe just a coincidence; a lot of people play D&D, or
>
> - if, indeed, some maladjusted people are drawn to activities like
> D&D, maybe we need to do something about bullying and cliquishness in
> the schools,
>
> no, by God, we'll use this evidence to justify a witch-hunt against
> all the people who don't buy into our brand of conservative
> Christianity, so that the Taliban will have nothing on us when it
> comes to mind control!
>
> So a declaration of war against atheists is definitely on topic for
> alt.atheism, and you should recognize what the real agenda behind
> Sound of Trumpet's posting is.
(T Guy):
An excellent presentation of the case, John, which I wish I had
written myself.
I do admire your restraint in not pointing out that research suggests
that actual criminals - that is, people who are in jail because after
a trial they were found guilty of a crime - are overwhelmingly
Christians.
T Guy
D.F. Manno
<bb13e49d-7d11-4247...@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundof...@dcemail.com> wrote:
> Subject: Mass Murdering Professor Was Fan Of Demonic "Game" Dungeons &
> Dragons
Since when does three kills constitute "Mass Murder"?
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2452886/posts
That answers the question: when it provides a hobbyhorse for the nutball
Freepers.
--
D.F. Manno | dfm...@mail.com
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
intelligent are full of doubt. (Bertrand Russell)
Moriarty
<Snip>
> Actually, on Boston Herald website it seems to be 100%. I especially
> liked this comment:
>
> "I'm pretty sure that it is quite a stretch to be calling McDermott a
> 'devotee' of the D&D game in the same article where it mentions that
> police seized two books on the game from his apartment. That would be
> more 'passing interest that went nowhere'. In fact, I would take it as
> far as 'thought about it and decided he didn't like it'.
>
> You're off by a few orders of magnitude to use devotee. 20 books will
> get you 'regular player' and perhaps 200 would qualify you for
> devotee.
Disagree with that. I'm a D&D devotee in that I play once a week and
have done on and off since ~1980. However I only own 5 D&D books, 7
if you count the first edition AD&D Players Handbook and DM's Guide,
long in dis-use. One of my friends who plays with us only owns the PH
(3.5ed) which, if you're not going to DM, is all you really *need*.
PS Don't argue with me on this point. As a D&D devotee, I'm obviously
socially maladjusted and probably homicidal. There's no telling what
I'll do if provoked.
-Moriarty
Will in New Haven
We weren't playing long before it became _extremely_ rare for any of
the players to buy any of TSR's books. I had some of the references
and one or two of the original group had the Player Handbook. Then we
stopped playing D&D and started playing by our own rules, for which
there _were_ no books. Then we published our rules and sold all the
copies at a con in New Jersey and realized we STILL didn't have a
book. So we published a second edition for us.
--
Will in New Haven
Michael Price
_Convicted_ criminals are overwhelmingly Christian, maybe the guys
smart enough not to get caught are all atheists.
Michael Price
Is Laurel smart enough to know that "please try again" is only an
expression?
Michael Price
> In article
> <bb13e49d-7d11-4247-af7d-f748f8cdd...@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
> Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Subject: Mass Murdering Professor Was Fan Of Demonic "Game" Dungeons &
> > Dragons
>
> Since when does three kills constitute "Mass Murder"?
>
happen in the same incident that makes a "mass murderer".
> >http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2452886/posts
>
> That answers the question: when it provides a hobbyhorse for the nutball
> Freepers.
>
> --
> D.F. Manno | dfma...@mail.com
Mike Schilling
I hear ex-cows, and they don't know they're dead!
Mike Schilling
> We weren't playing long before it became _extremely_ rare for any of
> the players to buy any of TSR's books. I had some of the references
> and one or two of the original group had the Player Handbook. Then we
> stopped playing D&D and started playing by our own rules, for which
> there _were_ no books. Then we published our rules and sold all the
> copies at a con in New Jersey and realized we STILL didn't have a
> book. So we published a second edition for us.
"We've sold every last book!"
"That must earn us experience points."
"I don't think so."
"Of course it does."
"How many"?
"I'm not sure, but I'll look it up in the .... Oh, bugger."
Mike Schilling
I'd guess "no", but I wouldn't bet more than the GDP of the US on it.
Spartakus
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2452886/posts
>
> Suspect in slays fan of ‘Dungeons’ (Amy Bishop)
>
> Boston Herald ^ | 2/16/10 | Laurel J. Sweet
>
> Posted on 17 February 2010 01:53:17 by ruralvoter
>
> Accused campus killer Amy Bishop was a devotee of Dungeons & Dragons -
Ah yes, grooving with the classics...
JohnN
wrote:
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2452886/posts
>
> Suspect in slays fan of ‘Dungeons’ (Amy Bishop)
>
> Boston Herald ^ | 2/16/10 | Laurel J. Sweet
>
> Posted on 17 February 2010 01:53:17 by ruralvoter
>
> Accused campus killer Amy Bishop was a devotee of Dungeons & Dragons -
> devastating workplace killings at Edgewater Technology in Wakefield in
> 2000.
>
> Anderson met and fell in love in a Dungeons & Dragons club while
> biology students at Northeastern University in the early 1980s, and
> were heavily into the fantasy role-playing board game, a source told
> the Herald.
>
> “They even acted this crap out,” the source said.
>
> When questioned about it yesterday, Anderson, 45, a research scientist
> in Huntsville, Ala., dismissed the egghead escape as “a passing
> interest. It was a social thing more than anything else. It’s not the
> crazy group people think they are.”
>
> McDermott studied engineering at Northeastern in the late 1980s, but
> Anderson said he never met him. Police seized two Dungeons & Dragons
> books from McDermott’s Haverhill apartment after he shot seven co-
> workers to death on Dec. 26, 2000.
>
> The popular fantasy role-playing game has a long history of
> controversy, with objections raised to its demonic and violent
> were later involved in violent crimes, while others say it just a
> game. A federal appeals court recently upheld a prison ban on the game
> in Wisconsin, where prison officials reportedly testified they were
> afraid the game could promote “hostility, violence and escape
> behavior.”
She's one of those damn uppity air breathers too!
JohnN
JohnN
A lot of Christians go to church in shoes. It has something to do
with their soles.
JohnN
Howard Brazee
I bet there was some old movie that he was a fan of as well.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Smiler
No! No! The sandal is the one true sign.
Follow the sandal!
--
Smiler
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
All gods are bespoke. They're all made to
perfectly fit the prejudices of their believer
Matt Hughes
> A lot of Christians go to church in shoes. It has something to do
> with their soles.
You'd think they'd want to go barefoot, to save their soles.
Matt Hughes
http://www.archonate.com
Shawn Wilson
wrote:
> Accused campus killer Amy Bishop was a devotee of Dungeons & Dragons -
> just like Michael “Mucko” McDermott, the lone gunman behind the
> devastating workplace killings at Edgewater Technology in Wakefield in
> 2000.
That makes me so MAD!!! I think I'll grab my guns and shoot up a
school or something... That'll show THEM.
Shawn Wilson
> I do admire your restraint in not pointing out that research suggests
> that actual criminals - that is, people who are in jail because after
> a trial they were found guilty of a crime - are overwhelmingly
> Christians.
And we know this from surveys taken of convicts, who couldn't possibly
have any reason to tewll anything but the unalloyed truth or try to
convince people they've 'reformed' so they can get out of jail or
anything...
Smiler
> On Feb 18, 11:05 am, "D.F. Manno" <dfma...@mail.com> wrote:
>> In article
>> <bb13e49d-7d11-4247-af7d-f748f8cdd...@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
>> Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Subject: Mass Murdering Professor Was Fan Of Demonic "Game"
>>> Dungeons & Dragons
>>
>> Since when does three kills constitute "Mass Murder"?
>>
> It constitutes a serial killer, I'd guess that means if they all
> happen in the same incident that makes a "mass murderer".
>
Only if it happened at a Catholic Church during one of their services.
Carl Henderson
@news.albasani.net:
> That answers the question: when it provides a hobbyhorse for the nutball
> Freepers.
The vast majority of the freepers commenting thought she was nuts, too.
Wexford
> On Feb 17, 8:45 am, Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 17, 8:03 am, Michael Grosberg <grosberg.mich...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > I have it on good sources that 100% of mass murderers wore shoes. The
> > > nazis also wore shoes. Hitler swore by them, he was never caught
> > > barefoot in public! I think we should ban shoes altogether, just to be
> > > safe.
>
> > Holy shit! I never saw that before!! I have to run out and launch a
> > world-wide media campaign to have shoes outlawed! I'll have to write
> > a best selling novel titled "Shoes: The Murder Connection", maybe even
> > start a reality shoe featuring people that live without shoes! Oh the
> > horrors of shoes!!!
>
> dancing in a zoot suit, either.
>
> If you have never tap danced in a zoot suit while playing an oboe, you
> are likely to be a mass murderer too!
>
> Chris
Would doing the boogie-woogie in a leisure suit while playing the
kazoo suffice. I'm serious, now. Will it??
Wexford
We slave for the Romans, and what have they done for us??
Mike Schilling
>>
>> If you have never tap danced in a zoot suit while playing an oboe,
>> you are likely to be a mass murderer too!
>>
>> Chris
>
> Would doing the boogie-woogie in a leisure suit while playing the
> kazoo suffice. I'm serious, now. Will it??
What, a mass murderer who does the boogie-woogie in a leisure suit while
playing the kazoo? It's a million to one shot!
Wexford
wrote:
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2452886/posts
>
> Suspect in slays fan of ‘Dungeons’ (Amy Bishop)
>
> Boston Herald ^ | 2/16/10 | Laurel J. Sweet
>
> Posted on 17 February 2010 01:53:17 by ruralvoter
>
> just like Michael “Mucko” McDermott, the lone gunman behind the
> devastating workplace killings at Edgewater Technology in Wakefield in
> 2000.
>
> Anderson met and fell in love in a Dungeons & Dragons club while
> biology students at Northeastern University in the early 1980s, and
> were heavily into the fantasy role-playing board game, a source told
> the Herald.
>
> “They even acted this crap out,” the source said.
>
> When questioned about it yesterday, Anderson, 45, a research scientist
> in Huntsville, Ala., dismissed the egghead escape as “a passing
> interest. It was a social thing more than anything else. It’s not the
> crazy group people think they are.”
>
> McDermott studied engineering at Northeastern in the late 1980s, but
> Anderson said he never met him. Police seized two Dungeons & Dragons
> books from McDermott’s Haverhill apartment after he shot seven co-
> workers to death on Dec. 26, 2000.
>
> The popular fantasy role-playing game has a long history of
> controversy, with objections raised to its demonic and violent
> elements. Some experts have cited the D&D backgrounds of people who
> were later involved in violent crimes, while others say it just a
> game. A federal appeals court recently upheld a prison ban on the game
> in Wisconsin, where prison officials reportedly testified they were
> afraid the game could promote “hostility, violence and escape
> behavior.”
SOT: Where were you when the Christian Science couple let their child
die? Could it be that this strange sect that calls itself Christian
feels somehow compelled to sacrifice their children?
Father Haskell
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sweet evil baby jesus, can you imagine the unmitigated
slaughter if the prof had been using the *bible* as a
handbook?
Michael Price
Hey I play Cyberpunk (or did until recently) I'm WAYYYY more
dangerous than you. ; )
Michael Price
If the surveys are any good they're anonymous, so saying you're
Christian on the form won't have any benefit.
Unattractive Meatball #7
>On Feb 19, 5:01=A0am, Shawn Wilson <ikonoql...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 17, 4:50=A0pm, T Guy <Tim.Bate...@redbridge.gov.uk> wrote:
>>> I do admire your restraint in not pointing out that research suggests
>>> that actual criminals - that is, people who are in jail because after
>>> a trial they were found guilty of a crime - are overwhelmingly
>>> Christians.
>> And we know this from surveys taken of convicts, who couldn't possibly
>> have any reason to tewll anything but the unalloyed truth or try to
>> convince people they've 'reformed' so they can get out of jail or
>> anything...
> If the surveys are any good they're anonymous, so saying you're
> Christian on the form won't have any benefit.
A study was performed to address this very issue, dated 1996 but still
relevant
http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/gp017.htm
Atheists are grossly under-represented in Western prison systems because
atheists use illegal narcotics much less frequently than the religious do,
an artifact, one prison warden suggested, of atheists enjoying life
"straight up" as opposed to cultists who enjoy fantasy delusions more than
real life.
Atheists evidence not only the superior intelligence and morality over
their less fortunate, cultist brothers and sisters, but they also evidence
much stroinger preference for stark reality.
---
Does belief in astrology cause insanity? http://www.skeptictank.org/edm.htm
Scientology is organized crime: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/la-megaraid-2010
No, gods and goddesses can't punish atheists, loon.
Howard Brazee
<nini...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> And we know this from surveys taken of convicts, who couldn't possibly
>> have any reason to tewll anything but the unalloyed truth or try to
>> convince people they've 'reformed' so they can get out of jail or
>> anything...
>
> If the surveys are any good they're anonymous, so saying you're
>Christian on the form won't have any benefit.
Lots of things convicts (and other people) do have no benefit. Do
convicts believe that the surveys are anonymous?
Paladin
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:16:12 -0800 (PST), Michael Price
> <nini...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> And we know this from surveys taken of convicts, who couldn't possibly
>>> have any reason to tewll anything but the unalloyed truth or try to
>>> convince people they've 'reformed' so they can get out of jail or
>>> anything...
>> If the surveys are any good they're anonymous, so saying you're
>> Christian on the form won't have any benefit.
>
>
> Lots of things convicts (and other people) do have no benefit. Do
> convicts believe that the surveys are anonymous?
>
Of course they do. They may be criminals, but they aren't
necessarily stupid as your average rightard. Besides,
why would they lie about a question of religion? what're
they gonna do?--lock them up if they say they're atheist?
David Johnston
wrote:
>Howard Brazee wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:16:12 -0800 (PST), Michael Price
>> <nini...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> And we know this from surveys taken of convicts, who couldn't possibly
>>>> have any reason to tewll anything but the unalloyed truth or try to
>>>> convince people they've 'reformed' so they can get out of jail or
>>>> anything...
>>> If the surveys are any good they're anonymous, so saying you're
>>> Christian on the form won't have any benefit.
>>
>>
>> Lots of things convicts (and other people) do have no benefit. Do
>> convicts believe that the surveys are anonymous?
>>
>
>Of course they do. They may be criminals, but they aren't
>necessarily stupid as your average rightard.
It isn't stupid at all for a prisoner to suspect that his privacy will
not be respected.
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
> Howard Brazee wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:16:12 -0800 (PST), Michael Price
> > <nini...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> And we know this from surveys taken of convicts, who couldn't possibly
> >>> have any reason to tewll anything but the unalloyed truth or try to
> >>> convince people they've 'reformed' so they can get out of jail or
> >>> anything...
> >> If the surveys are any good they're anonymous, so saying you're
> >> Christian on the form won't have any benefit.
> >
> >
> > Lots of things convicts (and other people) do have no benefit. Do
> > convicts believe that the surveys are anonymous?
> >
>
> Of course they do. They may be criminals, but they aren't
> necessarily stupid as your average rightard.
Actually, many convicts are quite stupid.
Anyway, God saw what they wrote.
> Besides,
> why would they lie about a question of religion? what're
> they gonna do?--lock them up if they say they're atheist?
I'm not sure how to present this, but I've heard it proposed that if
you sign in as Jewish, the guy who spits in your food in the kitchen
is a qualifid rabbi.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>Howard Brazee wrote:
>>
>> Lots of things convicts (and other people) do have no benefit. Do
>> convicts believe that the surveys are anonymous?
>
>Of course they do. They may be criminals, but they aren't
>necessarily stupid as your average rightard.
You think the smart ones are in prison? Convicts generally ARE
stupid, often VERY stupid.
They're bright enough not to believe everything they're told, though.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
I'm selling my comic collection -- see http://www.watt-evans.com/comics.html
I'm serializing a novel at http://www.watt-evans.com/realmsoflight0.html
Ray Fischer
> Paladin <pala...@giganews.com>
>>Howard Brazee wrote:
>>> Lots of things convicts (and other people) do have no benefit. Do
>>> convicts believe that the surveys are anonymous?
>>
>>Of course they do. They may be criminals, but they aren't
>>necessarily stupid as your average rightard.
>
>You think the smart ones are in prison? Convicts generally ARE
>stupid, often VERY stupid.
So is your average rightard.
>They're bright enough not to believe everything they're told, though.
Not so with rightards.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Jon Schild
> On Feb 17, 3:51 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com>
> wrote:
>> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2452886/posts
>>
>>
>> Boston Herald ^ | 2/16/10 | Laurel J. Sweet
>>
>> Posted on 17 February 2010 01:53:17 by ruralvoter
>>
>> Accused campus killer Amy Bishop was a devotee of Dungeons & Dragons -
>
>
Nothing. This guy should post on alt.loon or if there is no such
newsgroup, it should be created just for him.
Jon Schild
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2452886/posts
>
>
> Suspect in slays fan of �Dungeons� (Amy Bishop)
>
> Boston Herald ^ | 2/16/10 | Laurel J. Sweet
>
> Posted on 17 February 2010 01:53:17 by ruralvoter
>
> Accused campus killer Amy Bishop was a devotee of Dungeons & Dragons -
I thought the great unwashed had given up demonizing the most creative
leisure activity ever invented. But this loon is not only stupid but way
out of date.
Paladin
Very true. But in what way would denying religious
affiliation hurt them? Most are not eligible for parole.
Paladin
> Jimbo wrote:
>> On Feb 17, 3:51 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2452886/posts
>>>
>>>
>>> Boston Herald ^ | 2/16/10 | Laurel J. Sweet
>>>
>>> Posted on 17 February 2010 01:53:17 by ruralvoter
>>>
>>> Accused campus killer Amy Bishop was a devotee of Dungeons & Dragons -
>>
>>
>> What has that to do with alt.atheism?
>
> Nothing. This guy should post on alt.loon or if there is no such
> newsgroup, it should be created just for him.
I really wish you guys would remove the political
newsgroups from the cross-postings.
Greg Goss
>> If the surveys are any good they're anonymous, so saying you're
>> Christian on the form won't have any benefit.
>
>A study was performed to address this very issue, dated 1996 but still
>relevant
>
> http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/gp017.htm
>
>Atheists are grossly under-represented in Western prison systems because
>atheists use illegal narcotics much less frequently than the religious do,
>an artifact, one prison warden suggested, of atheists enjoying life
>"straight up" as opposed to cultists who enjoy fantasy delusions more than
>real life.
>
>Atheists evidence not only the superior intelligence and morality over
>their less fortunate, cultist brothers and sisters, but they also evidence
>much stroinger preference for stark reality.
Cause and effect may be reversed there. If your life sucks, maybe you
go looking for alternate reasoning.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Robibnikoff
"Paladin" <pala...@giganews.com> wrote in message
news:uImdnRvVza8...@giganews.com...
Jon Schild wrote:
> Jimbo wrote:
>> On Feb 17, 3:51 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2452886/posts
>>>
>>>
>>> Boston Herald ^ | 2/16/10 | Laurel J. Sweet
>>>
>>> Posted on 17 February 2010 01:53:17 by ruralvoter
>>>
>>> Accused campus killer Amy Bishop was a devotee of Dungeons & Dragons -
>>
>>
>> What has that to do with alt.atheism?
>
> Nothing. This guy should post on alt.loon or if there is no such
> newsgroup, it should be created just for him.
>I really wish you guys would remove the political newsgroups from the
>cross-postings.
I really wish everyone would remove alt.atheism from theirs. Not a perfect
world, sweetie. Just ignore the posts you don't want to read and use your
killfile.
--
Robyn
BAAWA Knight
#1557
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
It's a well-known trope that prisoners who show Christian religious
beliefs -- especially if it's accompanied by signs of reform -- may be
more accepted by society. It may not be entirely TRUE, but it's a common
concept, and thus there's good reason to profess to be Christian
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
David Johnston
Paladin
Men hiding in foxholes in battles do pray. But are they
praying to god or god in general? are they perhaps saying
the equivalent of "Oh shit what the fuck am I doing
here." Are the attackers praying to the same god or gods,
or are they too saying the equivalent of "Oh shit what
the fuck am I doing here."
Paladin
To my family, in order to keep them from shedding tears
over my lost soul, I profess to be a newborn Christian. I
once claimed to be atheist; now I admit that I just
don't know. But I am unwilling to bow down to a god who
allows babies to starve while billionaires dine on golden
platters.
Paladin
Dear BAAWA Knight. I am a married man, I do not wish to
date you. So don't call me "sweetie."
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
A nice sentiment, but irrelevant to the discussion. The reason I gave
is one very good objective reason for a prisoner to profess to being
Christian whether he is or not.
duke
wrote:
You don't understand that all they did was "check the block".
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Michael Stemper
>On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:54:39 -0600, Paladin <pala...@giganews.com> wrote:
>>Howard Brazee wrote:
>>> Lots of things convicts (and other people) do have no benefit. Do
>>> convicts believe that the surveys are anonymous?
>>
>>Of course they do. They may be criminals, but they aren't
>>necessarily stupid as your average rightard.
>
>You think the smart ones are in prison?
For which the ObSFW is _A Stainless Steel Rat is Born_. (Yes, I do
admit having read it.)
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Why doesn't anybody care about apathy?
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article <e4l6o5p18isqhqvvj...@news.eternal-september.org>, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> writes:
>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:54:39 -0600, Paladin <pala...@giganews.com> wrote:
>>> Howard Brazee wrote:
>
>>>> Lots of things convicts (and other people) do have no benefit. Do
>>>> convicts believe that the surveys are anonymous?
>>> Of course they do. They may be criminals, but they aren't
>>> necessarily stupid as your average rightard.
>> You think the smart ones are in prison?
>
> For which the ObSFW is _A Stainless Steel Rat is Born_. (Yes, I do
> admit having read it.)
>
No the ObSF is "The Adventures of the Stainless Steel Rat". The later
books are inferior overall.
Michael Stemper
That appears to be an omnibus of the first three novels. To the best of
my memory (and I've read them many times), none of those novels has any
discussion of the fact that the stupidest criminals are the ones most
likely to be captured, and so have no relevance to what Lawrence said.
_Born_, on the other hand, gives this idea a very explicit examination.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
This sentence no verb.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article <hm3qhv$ern$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> writes:
>> Michael Stemper wrote:
>>> In article <e4l6o5p18isqhqvvj...@news.eternal-september.org>, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> writes:
>>>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:54:39 -0600, Paladin <pala...@giganews.com> wrote:
>
>>>> You think the smart ones are in prison?
>>> For which the ObSFW is _A Stainless Steel Rat is Born_. (Yes, I do
>>> admit having read it.)
>> No the ObSF is "The Adventures of the Stainless Steel Rat". The later
>> books are inferior overall.
>
> That appears to be an omnibus of the first three novels. To the best of
> my memory (and I've read them many times), none of those novels has any
> discussion of the fact that the stupidest criminals are the ones most
> likely to be captured, and so have no relevance to what Lawrence said.
I think he actually mentions this in the first story. Not an in-depth
discussion though.
And it's relevant as an example, if not a discussion.
Moriarty
> >> Michael Stemper wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:54:39 -0600, Paladin <paladi...@giganews.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> You think the smart ones are in prison?
> >>> For which the ObSFW is _A Stainless Steel Rat is Born_. (Yes, I do
> >>> admit having read it.)
> >> No the ObSF is "The Adventures of the Stainless Steel Rat". The later
> >> books are inferior overall.
>
> > That appears to be an omnibus of the first three novels. To the best of
> > my memory (and I've read them many times), none of those novels has any
> > discussion of the fact that the stupidest criminals are the ones most
> > likely to be captured, and so have no relevance to what Lawrence said.
>
> I think he actually mentions this in the first story. Not an in-depth
> discussion though.
>
> And it's relevant as an example, if not a discussion.
I think it was _Born_ where he deliberately gets caught and
imprisoned so he can learn from the criminal masterminds he imagines
are in jail. Once there he realises what a bunch of dunderheaded
losers the rest of the inmates are and promptly escapes.
-Moriarty
Smiler
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:23:32 GMT, meat...@peta.org (Unattractive
> Meatball #7) wrote:
>
> You don't understand that all they did was "check the block".
Your evidence for this is what, hurl weber?
--
Smiler
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
All gods are bespoke. They're all made to
perfectly fit the prejudices of their believer
Howard Brazee
wrote:
>Men hiding in foxholes in battles do pray. But are they
>praying to god or god in general? are they perhaps saying
>the equivalent of "Oh shit what the fuck am I doing
>here." Are the attackers praying to the same god or gods,
>or are they too saying the equivalent of "Oh shit what
>the fuck am I doing here."
And quite a few people turn away from their religion faced with the
realities of war.
Paladin
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:53:58 -0600, Paladin <pala...@giganews.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Men hiding in foxholes in battles do pray. But are they
>> praying to god or god in general? are they perhaps saying
>> the equivalent of "Oh shit what the fuck am I doing
>> here." Are the attackers praying to the same god or gods,
>> or are they too saying the equivalent of "Oh shit what
>> the fuck am I doing here."
>
>
> And quite a few people turn away from their religion faced with the
> realities of war.
>
Yep. I was raised Pentecostal Holiness, 7 ministers in my
mother's eleven siblings; a brother has a doctorate in
theology and a sister and a brother are Baptist
missionaries. I returned from Vietnam much beloved for
my service to god and country, till I announced that
combat had made me a borderline atheist.
Michael Stemper
>On Feb 25, 7:47=A0am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> Michael Stemper wrote:
>> >> Michael Stemper wrote:
>> >>> In article <e4l6o5p18isqhqvvj4d01i4hhfkejnd...@news.eternal-september.org>, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> writes:
>> >>>> You think the smart ones are in prison?
>> >>> For which the ObSFW is _A Stainless Steel Rat is Born_. (Yes, I do
>> >>> admit having read it.)
>> >> No the ObSF is "The Adventures of the Stainless Steel Rat". The later
>> >> books are inferior overall.
>>
>> > That appears to be an omnibus of the first three novels. To the best of
>> > my memory (and I've read them many times), none of those novels has any
>> > discussion of the fact that the stupidest criminals are the ones most
>> > likely to be captured, and so have no relevance to what Lawrence said.
>>
>> I think he actually mentions this in the first story. Not an in-depth
>> discussion though.
>>
>> And it's relevant as an example, if not a discussion.
>
>I think it was _Born_ where he deliberately gets caught and
>imprisoned so he can learn from the criminal masterminds he imagines
>are in jail. Once there he realises what a bunch of dunderheaded
>losers the rest of the inmates are and promptly escapes.
Yes, it was. That's why I brought it up.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
This email is to be read by its intended recipient only. Any other party
reading is required by the EULA to send me $500.00.
Paladin
> agnostic?
> BTW many churches have Prison Ministeries, and pass out small favors
> like stamps envelopes, writing paper and pens. The ministers often
> recommend parole, and the board of pardons and paroles are made up of
> good Christian men. Atheist have no chance in hell of getting parole.
> Christians are natural born liars and claim to be true believer when
> in fact many are atheist. Only the most honest of men admit to being
> atheist.
Use your imaginarium, rob. I am agnostic, leaning toward
atheism some days and on others, I think of the
inter-related intricacy of the universe, and I wonder....
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
> agnostic?
> BTW many churches have Prison Ministeries, and pass out small favors
> like stamps envelopes, writing paper and pens. The ministers often
> recommend parole, and the board of pardons and paroles are made up of
> good Christian men. Atheist have no chance in hell of getting parole.
> Christians are natural born liars and claim to be true believer when
> in fact many are atheist. Only the most honest of men admit to being
> atheist.
So only those recidivist Christian atheists make a good enough
impression on the parole board... this system is kinda broken, huh?
William December Starr
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> said:
> Paladin wrote:
>> David Johnston wrote:
>>
>>> It isn't stupid at all for a prisoner to suspect that his
>>> privacy will not be respected.
>>
>> Very true. But in what way would denying religious affiliation
>> hurt them? Most are not eligible for parole.
The paragraph that kicked this off, from T Guy, just said:
I do admire your restraint in not pointing out that research
suggests that actual criminals - that is, people who are in jail
because after a trial they were found guilty of a crime - are
overwhelmingly Christians.
...so unless Paladin is thinking of specific studies that only or
mostly involved no-possibility-of-parole convicts, I think he's
mistaken here. (Also, even among no-hope-of-release prisoners false
claims of having "found Jesus" etc. could lead to better/more
lenient treatment inside prison, or at least the convicts might
believe so.)
> It's a well-known trope that prisoners who show Christian
> religious beliefs -- especially if it's accompanied by signs of
> reform -- may be more accepted by society. It may not be entirely
> TRUE, but it's a common concept, and thus there's good reason to
> profess to be Christian
Long, but relevant I think:
<http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2009/11/30/mike_huckabee>
Monday, Nov 30, 2009 17:31 PST
Mike Huckabee's fatally bad judgment
By Joe Conason
If clemency for Maurice Clemmons were the only fatal error
committed by Mike Huckabee as governor of Arkansas, he might be
able to shift blame to the state's law enforcement system and
even run for president again in 2012. Yet the Clemmons
commutation that he granted nine years ago is only one among
several cases that raise serious questions about Huckabee's
judgment.
Clemmons, the fugitive suspect in the shooting deaths of four
police officers, was hit in the torso by return fire from one of
the cops who later died, he escaped.
Having accumulated five felony convictions in Arkansas and at
least eight felony charges in Washington, according to the
Seattle Times, Clemmons was undoubtedly a danger to the community
who ought to have been returned to prison long ago by law
enforcement authorities. Only days before the police shooting, he
was released on $150,000 bail from a jail in Pierce County,
Wash., where he was incarcerated on charges of raping a child.
As Huckabee suggested in a statement released on Monday, courts
and law enforcement agencies in Washington should probably share
the blame for Sunday's carnage. "Should he be found to be
responsible for this horrible tragedy, " the statement said,
referring to Clemmons, "it will be the result of a series of
failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and
Washington State."
In short, Huckabee was arguing, the killings attributed to
Clemmons were not Huckabee's fault. Certainly they were not his
fault alone. But this incident has revived memories of other
decisions he made that later led to terrible consequences. The
damage to his political future will hinge on how deeply news
organizations now delve into those cases -- and the bizarre
faith-based rationale behind his use of the clemency and pardon
powers of the governor.
Huckabee has proudly declared on many occasions that he disdains
the separation of church and state, insisting that his strict
Baptist piety should serve as the bedrock of public
policy. Nowhere in his record as governor was the influence of
religious zeal felt more heavily than in the distribution of
pardons and commutations, as his own explanations have
indicated. During those years he granted more commutations and
pardons than any governor during the previous four decades, many
of them surely justified as a response to excessive penalties
under the state's draconian narcotics laws. But others were
deeply controversial, especially because so many of his acts of
mercy appeared to depend on interventions by fellow Baptist
preachers and by inmate professions of renewed Christian faith.
No doubt word spread among the prison population that the affable
governor was vulnerable to appeals from convicts who claimed to
be born again. Clemmons too was among those who benefited from
Huckabee's tendency to believe such pious testimonials. "I come
from a very good Christian family and I was raised much better
than my actions speak," he explained in his clemency application
in 2000. "I'm still ashamed to this day for the shame my stupid
involvement in these crimes brought upon my family's name ... I
have never done anything good for God, but I've prayed for him to
grant me in his compassion the grace to make a start. Now, I'm
humbly appealing to you for a brand new start."
Surely the most notorious instance of misplaced mercy involved
Wayne Dumond, a rapist and murderer now deceased, who was
originally sent to prison in Arkansas for raping a distant cousin
of Bill Clinton. During Clinton's presidency the Dumond case
became an obsession among certain right-wing pundits and
politicians, who insisted that Dumond had been framed and
brutalized by the "Clinton machine." When Huckabee became
governor, he supported a parole for Dumond, winning applause from
the Republican right -- until the former prisoner raped and
killed a young woman in Missouri. Dumond later died in prison,
under suspicion that he had murdered at least one other woman
after his Arkansas release -- a tragic outcome for which Huckabee
has repeatedly tried to blame others, including his two
Democratic predecessors in the statehouse.
The real engine behind Dumond's release, however, was a Baptist
minister and ultra-conservative ideologue named Jay Cole, who
also happened to be a friend of Huckabee. Cole would tell the
governor about his visits with the supposedly innocent Dumond,
when the minister and the prisoner would read the Bible and pray
together.
Perhaps the worst instance of that same syndrome, chronicled in
detail by Arkansas journalists, concerned an Air Force sergeant
named Glen Green, who was sentenced to prison for life after
confessing that he had raped and killed a teenage girl. After
beating the woman with nunchucks, he violated her almost lifeless
body, ran over her with his car and buried her in a swamp. But
yet another preacher friend of Huckabee's named Rev. Johnny
Jackson somehow persuaded the governor that this incredibly
brutal killing had been an "accident" -- and that Green had
repented, come to Jesus and therefore should be freed.
Two years ago, I noted that Huckabee knew almost nothing about
the Green case beyond what his preacher pal had told him. He
consulted neither the prosecutor nor the victim's family, and
overruled the dissent of his own parole board. After he announced
that Green would be released, the furious public reaction forced
him to reverse the decision. Yet he continued to release
murderers and other violent criminals despite angry dissent from
local prosecutors.
Huckabee granted mercy to prisoners whom he chanced to meet, to
prisoners who had personal connections to him or his family, and
especially to prisoners who were vouchsafed to him by the pastors
he had befriended during his years as a Baptist minister and
denominational leader. Among the thugs who benefited from his
mercy was a robber who beat an old man to death with a lead pipe.
During the 2008 campaign, Huckabee's arrogance and stupidity
mostly escaped the full scrutiny of the national press corps, in
part because his stint as a contender was so brief. But next
time, if there is a next time, he should get no such free pass --
and his claims to divine guidance ought to be thoroughly
debunked.
(Note: This story was updated after publication with news of
Clemmons' reported death.)
William December Starr
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> said:
> You think the smart ones are in prison? Convicts generally ARE
> stupid, often VERY stupid.
Or victims (for some sense of the word) of Poor Impulse Control,
which is almost but not quite the same thing.
-- wds
Mike Schilling
To the extent that we're all on the hook for the trillion-plus dollar Iraq
War, we're all victims of Poor Impulse Control.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Starr) wrote:
I'd say that's one form of stupid.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
I'm selling my comic collection -- see http://www.watt-evans.com/comics.html
I'm serializing a novel at http://www.watt-evans.com/realmsoflight0.html
duke
>meat...@peta.org (Unattractive Meatball #7) wrote:
>
>>> If the surveys are any good they're anonymous, so saying you're
>>> Christian on the form won't have any benefit.
>>
>>A study was performed to address this very issue, dated 1996 but still
>>relevant
>>
>> http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/gp017.htm
>>
>>Atheists are grossly under-represented in Western prison systems because
>>atheists use illegal narcotics much less frequently than the religious do,
>>an artifact, one prison warden suggested, of atheists enjoying life
>>"straight up" as opposed to cultists who enjoy fantasy delusions more than
>>real life.
>>
>>Atheists evidence not only the superior intelligence and morality over
>>their less fortunate, cultist brothers and sisters, but they also evidence
>>much stroinger preference for stark reality.
>
>Cause and effect may be reversed there. If your life sucks, maybe you
>go looking for alternate reasoning.
He doesn't understand "checking the block".
Virgil
duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
He understands that theism is a cultlike reaction to unhappiness.
Not Sure
wrote:
> Michael Price <nini_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Feb 19, 5:01=A0am, Shawn Wilson <ikonoql...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 17, 4:50=A0pm, T Guy <Tim.Bate...@redbridge.gov.uk> wrote:
> >>> I do admire your restraint in not pointing out that research suggests
> >>> that actual criminals - that is, people who are in jail because after
> >>> a trial they were found guilty of a crime - are overwhelmingly
> >>> Christians.
> >> have any reason to tewll anything but the unalloyed truth or try to
> >> convince people they've 'reformed' so they can get out of jail or
> >> anything...
> > Christian on the form won't have any benefit.
>
> A study was performed to address this very issue, dated 1996 but still
> relevant
>
> http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/gp017.htm
>
> Atheists are grossly under-represented in Western prison systems because
> atheists use illegal narcotics much less frequently than the religious do,
> an artifact, one prison warden suggested, of atheists enjoying life
> "straight up" as opposed to cultists who enjoy fantasy delusions more than
> real life.
>
> Atheists evidence not only the superior intelligence and morality over
> their less fortunate, cultist brothers and sisters, but they also evidence
> much stroinger preference for stark reality.
And they're overwhelmingly Democrats. Try not to cry :)
>
> ---
> Does belief in astrology cause insanity?http://www.skeptictank.org/edm.htm
> Scientology is organized crime:http://www.ustream.tv/channel/la-megaraid-2010
> No, gods and goddesses can't punish atheists, loon.
trag
> On Feb 22, 11:23 am, meatb...@peta.org (Unattractive Meatball #7)
> wrote:
> > Atheists evidence not only the superior intelligence and morality over
> > their less fortunate, cultist brothers and sisters, but they also evidence
> > much stroinger preference for stark reality.
>
> And they're overwhelmingly Democrats. Try not to cry :)
That's because we (mostly) prefer stupidity to outright evil...