History reveals Religion correlates with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny
fasgnadh
Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
Not every religion produced a great and enduring civilisation,
and there have been significant periods where the tenets of the
religion were ignored and violence and brutality committed 'in the
NAME of" but not in the spirit of, that religion.
But every great and enduring civilisation has been built by RELIGIOUS
societies, not one has ever been built by an ATHEIST society.
Every atheist state has been a totalitarian tyranny; the Union of Savage
Slaughter and Repression(USSR), Mao's Cultural Devolution and Great Leap
Backwards, and today's example:
Exhibit A: Cambodia
Cambodia under the Buddhist civilisation, their crowning achievement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN46a_PjKFM
Cambodia under the atheist Pol Pot's tyranny, their darkest hour:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia’s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot’s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
---------
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
“Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
fasgnadh
>
> Bullshit.
It's all he ever writes! B^D
< Unsnip the FACTS which Seon the intellectual fraud snipped
and ran from: >
> On 18/12/2010 1:22 PM, fasgnadh wrote:
>>
>> Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
>> with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
>>
>> Not every religion produced a great and enduring civilisation,
>> and there have been significant periods where the tenets of the
>> religion were ignored and violence and brutality committed 'in the
>> NAME of" but not in the spirit of, that religion.
>>
> Crusades: 1 million
> Spanish Inquisition: 32,000 deaths
> Witch hunts: around 25,000 deaths
> Cathar genocide: 1 million people
> 16525 people have died in Islamic terrorist attacks since 911
As I said, (and you snipped, you devious little fraud), "there have been
significant periods where the tenets of the religion were ignored and
violence and brutality committed 'in the NAME of" but not in the
spirit of, that religion."
According to Seon those ABERRATIONS total 2,073,525 in over 5000 years,
compared to 70,000,000 people killed in atheist regimes in
just 7 years.
Even on the raw figures atheism is more than 30 times worse, calculate
that per million people ruled per year and you can see that religion
really is far superior to atheism in terms of social order and human
well being.
Moreover, religion has a preponderance of SUCCESSES, creating many
great and enduring civilisations.. atheism has none! 8^o
Game Set Match!
> Then there is all the Jews who were murdered in religious inspired anti
> Semitic attacks (inspired by martin Luther and Catholic doctrine), the
> tyranny people lived under in the middle ages, the suppression of science.
>
> Not to mention the women who are treated like second class citizens in
> Islamic societies, the fascist Sharia Law which seeks to tax non
> Muslims, the persecution of Christians, Jews, Bahais, Hindus and
> Buddhists in Islamic dictatorships, the facist Hamas that wants all of
> "Palestine" to live under fascist Sharia Law and wants Israel to be an
> Islamic state and many other cases.
>
> And the Caste system in India.
So as I said, Atheism has killed FAR more people than ANY religion in
history. over 70,000,000 people tortured terrorised and killed.
And you can't come up with a fiigure anywhere near that for ANY religion!
Game Set Match! B^]
>
> You think religious societies are "civilized?"
Sure, all the free, open, tolerant, pluralist, secular democratic
states have been built by MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies, including
the one you, and all the atheists, choose to live in, you ignorant
and ungrateful wretch!
> give me a break!
Sure, if you need to rest your wounded pride.. go have a break.
Why not take your break in an atheist state, say.. Nth Korea,
instead of a majority religious society like the USA, Australia,
et al.
Come back when you can refute, rather than SNIP the overwhelming evidence.
Name a single atheist civilisation, to compare to
Judeao/Christian/Islamic, Zoroastrian, Hindu, Buddhist...
> Communist societies may be just as bad and even worse but that doesn't
> mean religious societies aren't tyrannical as well.
You are merely repeating a point I already made, and you snipped -
religion is not free of warts, but they are part of a long history of
POSITIVE civilisations.. atheism however is ALL WARTS, not a single
democratic state, let alone a great and enduring civilisation..
EVERY atheist state has been a totalitarian tyranny.. 100%!!!!
Now, you poor ignorant dolt.. go ask someone to explain to you what
CORRELATION means!
B^D
And why did you snip talk.atheism etc from the newsgroups, you sly coward?
DVH
"fasgnadh" <fasg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gVUOo.5411$gM3....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>
> Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
> with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
Europe under its kings and princes was a big collection of tyrannies.
Conscription, tithes, arbitrary rule, violent suppression of dissent,
confiscation of property, state-sanctioned religious intolerance...
Serfdom in Russia, slavery all over the place, tribalism in the middle east.
Saudi Arabia and Iran are tyrannies. Hindu intolerance.
All this coexisted with religion.
In the end, you might just have to conclude that atheism doesn't correlate
with civilisation.
Then, the more interesting question could be: what is it about the religious
mind that allows it to create such wonders? The catholic church is
simultaneously beautiful, compassionate and oppressively cruel.
fasgnadh
> * It may have been the liquor talking, but
> Seon<se...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
>> Bullshit.
>>
>> Crusades: 1 million
>> Spanish Inquisition: 32,000 deaths
>> Witch hunts: around 25,000 deaths
>> Cathar genocide: 1 million people
>> 16525 people have died in Islamic terrorist attacks since 911
>>
>> Semitic attacks (inspired by martin Luther and Catholic doctrine), the
>> tyranny people lived under in the middle ages, the suppression of science.
>>
>> Not to mention the women who are treated like second class citizens in
>> Islamic societies, the fascist Sharia Law which seeks to tax non Muslims,
>> the persecution of Christians, Jews, Bahais, Hindus and Buddhists in Islamic
>> dictatorships, the facist Hamas that wants all of "Palestine" to live under
>> fascist Sharia Law and wants Israel to be an Islamic state and many other
>> cases.
>>
>> And the Caste system in India.
>>
>> societies may be just as bad and even worse but that doesn't mean religious
>> societies aren't tyrannical as well.
>
> socialist violence of the 20th century - the religious were mere amateurs in
> comparison.
You will not that Seon cannot bear the comparison, let alone
make it, he snips all the evidence required for a BALANCED
assessment... and his position shifts on the hour:
He's long been an atheist stooge, in fact he claims
I 'deconverted' him to atheism! B^D
"I'm perfectly happy believing in science and God" - Seon
"Yes Atheists have beliefs" - Seon
Seon: "Hey fasg I am still waiting for a. evidence God exists"
Seon: "I am happy believing in God"
Seon: "I have had .. no evidence of God I'm afraid."
Seon: "as I said why believe in something despite the lack of evidence?"
Seon "I find it hard to take anything you say seriously when you
use troll tactics like name calling. Troll."
Seon declares I was responsible for him choosing atheism: B^D
# From: "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com>
# Subject: Re: Atheist Ads on Spanish Bus - Proof that Atheists
# Proselytise their Beliefs! And they LIE about it!!!
# Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 09:38:32 +1100
# Message-ID: <49652ef0$0$28522$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
#
# "John Baker" <nu...@bizniz.net> recruits a convert
# >
# >
# > Should you decide to "deconvert", we'd be glad to have you. <G>
# >
# >
# >
# > Yep and you can thank fundamentalists like fags for the new convert.
Seon is a windsock.
Go easy on him, he has a few kangaroos loose in the top paddock; ;-)
# From: "seon" <se...@notmyrealaddress.com>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.christian,alt.bible,
# aus.religion,alt.politics.republicans,uk.politics.misc,aus.politics
# Subject: Re: Seon finally finds a Guru to match his own intellect
# - a toaster !
# B^D Re: Atheist states, the lowest form of government
# humans have devised.
# Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:04:07 +1000
# Message-ID: <4a73a2c4$0$9734$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
#
# I prefer to get my information from actual spirit guides,
# you know advanced souls who have crossed over and guide us
# in our day to day life and help us write the life scripts
# for this life and choose our bodies and family etc.
Apparently Seon's 'spirit guide' is to blame for his posts! 8^o
> While religion doesn't guarantee a society will be peaceful, it does at
> least 'officially' stand for the values of justice, peace and tolerance.
> Perhaps, more importantly, religion is, in the West at least, NOT the
> government, which allows it to act independently of the government and in
> direct opposition to the power of the state.
Exactly. The aberrations, crusades etc were ATYPICAL and against the
values the spiritual teacher taught.. thus they were committed by people
IN BREACH of the religion (typically for power or personal
aggrandisement, antithetical to the religion).
> There is no comparable 'watchdog' role for atheism, as it's power is
> disorganized and it holds no absolute moral standards of justice beyond what
> micro-communities informally assert on the web and in publications.
It is completely without moral values, and thus nothing in atheism
opposed the committal of crimes against humanity.
Thus Civilisation correlates to religion when practised, and tyranny
to when it is breached. EVERY atheist regime was a breach of
civilisation and thus atheism correlates with tyranny.
You will find that when these points are made, the atheists simply
run away and hide.
They have NO rational argument to present.
> Therefore, it has no reputation to uphold. It cannot be hypocritical as
> religion can, but it can also not rise to the occasion and be the force for
> good as religion can. IOW, it is morally and sociologically a non-entity,
> or close to it.
"An ineffectual and impotent sub-branch of nihilism"
Which is why it is globally in decline.
> *R* *H*
--
fasgnadh
> "fasgnadh"<fasg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:gVUOo.5411$gM3....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>>
>> Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
>> with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
>
> Europe under its kings and princes was a big collection of tyrannies.
>
> Conscription, tithes, arbitrary rule, violent suppression of dissent,
> confiscation of property, state-sanctioned religious intolerance...
>
> Serfdom in Russia, slavery all over the place, tribalism in the middle east.
> Saudi Arabia and Iran are tyrannies.
Sure, Feudal monarchies and all early forms of government
were undemocratic. There was no alternative till majority religious
societies abolished slavery and instituted free, open democratic nations.
No atheist state was ever a decent democracy.. all the secular
democracies were built by MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies.
> Hindu intolerance.
intolerance is not restricted to Hindu's, you cretin.
70,000,000 deaths in the atheist tyrannies of the 20th century
is a BENCHMARK in brutal intolerance!
> All this coexisted with religion.
You morons are incapable of logic;
IN ALL PRIMITIVE SOCIETIES, INJUSTICE ABOUNDED.
It was the majority religious societies which evolved new and better
forms of government.
EVERY FREE, OPEN, PLURALIST, PROGRESSIVE SECULAR DEMOCRACY HAS BEEN
BUILT BY MAJORITY RELIGIOUS SOCIETIES.
NO ATHEIST STATE HAS EVER BEEN A DECENT DEMOCRACY.
> In the end, you might just have to conclude that atheism doesn't correlate
> with civilisation.
Of course. That is MY ARGUMENT, you dimwit! B^D
Atheist states in history have a 100% correlation with tyranny.
There simply is no argument about it! B^]
> Then, the more interesting question could be: what is it about the religious
> mind that allows it to create such wonders?
Excellent question.
They say it's God.
And the people who have produced nothing but CATASTROPHIC FAILURES,
TYRANNIES WHICH HAVE TERRORISED, TORTURED AND KILLED OVER 70,000,000
PEOPLE DISAGREE.
Humanity has looked at those facts and rejected atheism en masse.
It's the rational thing to do.
> The catholic church is
> simultaneously beautiful, compassionate and oppressively cruel.
Whereas atheist regimes were neither beautiful, compassionate,
successful or lasting for millennia.. they were only oppressively cruel.
So cruelty is an aberration in religious history, a minor part of the
larger story, and the norm in atheist history.
Q.E.D.
DVH
> On 18/12/2010 8:35 PM, DVH wrote:
>> "fasgnadh"<fasg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:gVUOo.5411$gM3....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>>>
>>> Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
>>> with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
>>
>> Europe under its kings and princes was a big collection of tyrannies.
> >
>> Conscription, tithes, arbitrary rule, violent suppression of dissent,
>> confiscation of property, state-sanctioned religious intolerance...
>>
>> Serfdom in Russia, slavery all over the place, tribalism in the middle
>> east.
>> Saudi Arabia and Iran are tyrannies.
>
> Sure, Feudal monarchies and all early forms of government
> were undemocratic. There was no alternative till majority religious
> societies abolished slavery and instituted free, open democratic nations.
>
> No atheist state was ever a decent democracy.. all the secular
> democracies were built by MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies.
>
>> Hindu intolerance.
>
>
> intolerance is not restricted to Hindu's, you cretin.
Was somebody claiming it was?
Disgraceful. You should really ramp up your frothing ire and wipe them out.
Try using more caps. And more intellectual dishonesty.
That will get you the attention you so richly seek.
Rockinghorse Winner
Good point: modern democratic secularism is an invention of the Christian
West. Sadly, so is Communism. But Communism was an attempt to institute the
social gospel sans God and sans liberty. Doesn't work.
*R* *H*
--
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fasgnadh
> On 19/12/2010 2:21 AM, fasgnadh wrote:
>> On 18/12/2010 8:35 PM, DVH wrote:
>>> "fasgnadh"<fasg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:gVUOo.5411$gM3....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>>>>
>>>> Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
>>>> with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
>>>
>>> Europe under its kings and princes was a big collection of tyrannies.
>>>
>>> Conscription, tithes, arbitrary rule, violent suppression of dissent,
>>> confiscation of property, state-sanctioned religious intolerance...
>>>
>>> Serfdom in Russia, slavery all over the place, tribalism in the middle
>>> east.
>>> Saudi Arabia and Iran are tyrannies.
>>
>> Sure, Feudal monarchies and all early forms of government
>> were undemocratic. There was no alternative till majority religious
>> societies abolished slavery and instituted free, open democratic nations.
>>
>> No atheist state was ever a decent democracy.. all the secular
>> democracies were built by MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies.
>>
>>> Hindu intolerance.
>>
>> intolerance is not restricted to Hindu's, you cretin.
>
> Was somebody claiming it was?
Someone put the word 'Hindu' in front of intolerance when clearly
'atheism' is a more appropriate fit:
>> 70,000,000 deaths in the atheist tyrannies of the 20th century
>> is a BENCHMARK in brutal intolerance!
>
> Disgraceful. You should really ramp up your frothing ire
> and wipe them out.
Why would I want to imitate the atheist tyrants?
> Try using more caps.
The atheist sheep have more of them than anyone:
http://www.thearchetypalconnection.com/images/RedGuardsLow.JPG
> And more intellectual dishonesty.
Sure, their propaganda machine was Orwellian,
"Pravda" is the Russian word for Truth, it never printed any!
> That will get you the attention you so richly seek.
How does anyone seek 'richly'??? B^p
It seems English is not your first language.
Come back when you can speak it, and have something
to add to the discussion. pffffft!
fasgnadh
>
> Good point: modern democratic secularism is an invention of the Christian
> West. Sadly, so is Communism.
huh? Marx, Lenin, Mao, and Stalin were not Christians.. how was
communism a 'Christian invention' if none of it's leading figures
were? ???
> But Communism was an attempt to institute the
> social gospel sans God and sans liberty. Doesn't work.
Not once.
The Atheist hypothesis was tested, and failed.
> *R* *H*
DVH
> the discussion.
I admit your tantrums may be mistaken for "discussion" by some people.
Rockinghorse Winner
> On 19/12/2010 3:14 AM, Rockinghorse Winner wrote:
>>
>> Good point: modern democratic secularism is an invention of the Christian
>> West. Sadly, so is Communism.
>
> huh? Marx, Lenin, Mao, and Stalin were not Christians.. how was
> communism a 'Christian invention' if none of it's leading figures
> were? ???
Marx was a Christian convert, AFAIK.
Jim Austin
> Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
> with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
>
> Not every religion produced a great and enduring civilisation,
> and there have been significant periods where the tenets of the
> religion were ignored and violence and brutality committed 'in the
> NAME of" but not in the spirit of, that religion.
No religion has produced a great and enduring civilization.
> But every great and enduring civilisation has been built by RELIGIOUS
> societies, not one has ever been built by an ATHEIST society.
If one included those societies that are governed as if atheism were
true, as in the U.S.A., Canada and Western European, then that
statement is a brazen, deliberate, boldface lie.
> Every atheist state has been a totalitarian tyranny; the Union of Savage
> Slaughter and Repression(USSR), Mao's Cultural Devolution and Great Leap
> Backwards, and today's example:
Such totalitarian states have been aided and abetted by religions that
preach meekness, humility, servility, pacifism, divine right of kings
and dictators, and other values that strengthen tyrants and paralyze
resistance.
jg
>
> Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
> with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
>
> Not every religion produced a great and enduring civilisation,
> and there have been significant periods where the tenets of the
> religion were ignored and violence and brutality committed 'in the
> NAME of" but not in the spirit of, that religion.
>
> But every great and enduring civilisation has been built by RELIGIOUS
> societies, not one has ever been built by an ATHEIST society.
>
Most civilisations had their religious societies, it's perhaps those
religions' inability to stay home which was behind most invasions.
We have even come to regard such as signs of being great, though they
are mostly signs of being unable to mind your own business or too dumb
to run your country without growth.
But for enduring civilisations it's hard to go past the Australian
aboriginals. China is another good one.
Christopher A. Lee
<rwinner@remove_this.hmamail.com> wrote:
>
>Good point: modern democratic secularism is an invention of the Christian
>West.
Liar.
> Sadly, so is Communism. But Communism was an attempt to institute the
>social gospel sans God and sans liberty. Doesn't work.
Liar.
>*R* *H*
panam...@hotmail.com
snip faulty thesis
History shows, again and again, how nature points out the folly of
man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVv3JB_HIes&feature=fvsr
Go, go, Godzilla.
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>>
>> Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
>> with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
>>
>> Not every religion produced a great and enduring civilisation,
>> and there have been significant periods where the tenets of the
>> religion were ignored and violence and brutality committed 'in the
>> NAME of" but not in the spirit of, that religion.
>>
>> But every great and enduring civilisation has been built by RELIGIOUS
>> societies, not one has ever been built by an ATHEIST society.
>>
> .....
> for enduring civilisations it's hard to go past the Australian
> aboriginals.
Definitely not atheist. No mention of atheism till the White Devils arrived;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_Aboriginal_deities
Thanks for proving my point.
> China is another good one.
Sure, it proves my point precisely and indisputably,
Centuries of Taoism followed by a brief, bloody atheist
tyranny in which over 40,000,000 people were killed; Mao's
Cultural Devolution and Great Leap Backward.
NB; Since 1982, when China rejected Mao's atheist tyranny, reformed
their constitution and allowed greater religious freedom, the famines
have ceased, there has been an explosion of former atheists becoming
new believers (over 300,000,000 in the time atheism in the USA has
increased from a pathetic 0.4% to a feeble 0.7% of the USA population!)
and the nation is enjoying massive progress, growth and prosperity!
B^D
Thanks for PROVING MY POINT, religion correlates with civilisation,
atheism with tyranny!
"With the gradual liberalisation that developed with
Deng Xiaoping's open door reforms, religion was no
longer proscribed. In 1982, the constitution was
amended to allow Chinese people considerable freedom
of religion."
http://cbbc.org/china_guide/religion.html
"At the first world Buddhism forum in East China's Zhejiang
Province last year, the Chinese government acknowledged
the active role religion plays in building a harmonious society."
"For example, religious beliefs have helped cut down crime
to a large extent,"
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
"religion has been enjoying a resurgence in China over the
past 20 years, as Communist Party disapproval has eased"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6337627.stm
"Religious believers thrice the estimate
By Wu Jiao (China Daily)
"A survey has found that the number of religious believers
is three times bigger than the official estimate.
The poll of about 4,500 people, conducted by professors Tong
Shijun and Liu Zhongyu of Shanghai-based East China Normal
University from 2005 till recently, found that 31.4 percent
of Chinese aged 16 and above or about 300 million are religious."
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
Incredible! in just a few short years the new converts from
atheism In JUST ONE COUNTRY, far outnumber the slow increase
in tiny atheist numbers in the rest of the WORLD! B^D
fasgnadh
> On Dec 17, 6:22 pm, fasgnadh<fasgn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
>> with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
>>
>> Not every religion produced a great and enduring civilisation,
>> and there have been significant periods where the tenets of the
>> religion were ignored and violence and brutality committed 'in the
>> NAME of" but not in the spirit of, that religion.
>
> No religion has produced a great and enduring civilization.
Tell me the name of this great and enduring civilisation you claim was
produced by no religion.
Hindu, Judeo Christian and Islamic civilisations are centuries old.
You can't name a single atheist civilisation in ALL of human history!
The only ATHEIST states, the Union of Savage Slaughter and
Repression(USSR), Mao's Great Leap Backward and Cultural Devolution,
and Pol Pot's Cambodia (see below the evidence you SNIPPED and ran from,
providing NONE for your false BELIEFS) have all been CATASTROPHIC
FAILURES, killing over 70,000,000 people in their short span before
being consigned to the dustbin of history!
Thanks for playing, lightweight, and proving my point.
>
>> But every great and enduring civilisation has been built by RELIGIOUS
>> societies, not one has ever been built by an ATHEIST society.
>
> If one included those societies that are governed as if atheism were
> true,
The atheist regimes are those ruled BY ATHEISTS, explicitly declaring
ATHEISM to be their official policy, and implementing their tyrannical
agenda:
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
“Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
Replace the EVIDENCE which the atheist propagandists and liars SNIP and
RUN FROM:
>>
>>
>>
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
EVERY atheist state has been a totalitarian tyranny!
The free, open, progressive, tolerant, pluralist, secular
democratic states have been built and sustained by MAJORITY
RELIGIOUS societies....
> as in the U.S.A.,
80% religious an insignificant 0.7% atheist population. B^]
The USA is a religious society, the USSR was an atheist state.
The USA prints "In God We Trust" on it's banknotes!!!
Don't make yourself look any more stupid than you already have! B^D
> Canada and Western European,
All the modern secular democracies have been founded and sustained by
MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies. Even you atheist HYPOCRITES choose
to live in them, rather than emigrate to the last of the atheist
shitholes, North Korea!
The rational religious evolved SECULAR democracy because it guaranteed
that ALL beliefs would be protected, even minority lunacy such as
atheism. A secular state ensures that no one ideology can dominate,
and thus persecute all the others, as occured in EVERY atheist regime,
and also a smattering of theocracies and other totalitarian regimes.
Show me a single secular democracy where you claim there is a majority
of ATHEISTS!?
You can't. There is not a single decent atheist democracy in
all of human history.
Game Set, Match!
Thanks for trying, another atheist fraud who tried unsuccessfully
to claim that "secular=atheist", and pretend that the USA,
a majority religious society which
elects believers as President,
swears them in on a Bible,
prints "In God We Trust" on it's currency
is "governed as if atheism were true" BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAAA!
> then that statement is a brazen, deliberate, boldface lie.
We don't expect anything else from atheists, the intellectual
descendents of Pravda propagandists! B^p
You hypocrites choose to live in majority religious societies with their
freedom of belief and speech, secular separation of church and state,
all benefits denied to the poor bastards in EVERY atheist regime in
history!
>> Every atheist state has been a totalitarian tyranny; the Union of Savage
>> Slaughter and Repression(USSR), Mao's Cultural Devolution and Great Leap
>> Backwards, and today's example:
Atheist leaders regimes pursuing atheist policies, with every member of
the Central Committee tyranny an ATHEIST, and these inveterate liars
want to try and blame.. religion!????!?!!! WTF????
> Such totalitarian states have been aided and abetted by religions that
> preach meekness, humility, servility, pacifism,
So you are arguing that it was the peaceful Buddhists fault that they
were SLAUGHTERED by atheist criminals because they did not use violence
to resist the atheist terror?
Thanks for revealing the atheist mindset, that you have no morality, no
compassion, no human decency, and regard those who are civilised as weak
victims of your brutality;
> divine right of kings
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
YOu ignorant atheist stooge.. It was MAJORITY RELIGIOUS populations
that REMOVED that heresy, and evolved secular democratic states..
all that atheism ever did was take nations on that path BACK into
autocratic tyranny.. EVERY ATHEIST STATE HAS BEEN A TOTALITARIAN
TYRANNY! B^p
Not one has ever been a decent democracy.
> and dictators, and other values that strengthen tyrants and paralyze
> resistance.
Such as atheistic communism!
The atheist nutters - Lenin, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim ill Fuk and
Kim Rong Un DESTROYED their societies.. dragging 20th century nations
BACK into the medieval brutality which religious societies had EVOLVED
OUT OF!
B^D
No wonder masses living in atheist regimes STARVED to death, you dumb
fucks are TOO STUPID TO BREATHE!!!!!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
--
jg
> On 19/12/2010 7:03 AM, jg wrote:
>> fasgnadh wrote:
>>>
>>> Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
>>> with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
>>>
>>> Not every religion produced a great and enduring civilisation,
>>> and there have been significant periods where the tenets of the
>>> religion were ignored and violence and brutality committed 'in the
>>> NAME of" but not in the spirit of, that religion.
>>>
>>> But every great and enduring civilisation has been built by RELIGIOUS
>>> societies, not one has ever been built by an ATHEIST society.
>>>
>> .....
>
>> for enduring civilisations it's hard to go past the Australian
>> aboriginals.
>
> Definitely not atheist. No mention of atheism till the White Devils
> arrived;
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_Aboriginal_deities
>
If aboriginal lore amounts to a religion to you, there has probably
never been a civilisation which did not have one. Many christians have
called aborigines godless and many evil civilisations had evil 'gods'.
> Thanks for proving my point.
>
> > China is another good one.
>
>
> Sure, it proves my point precisely and indisputably,
>
> Centuries of Taoism followed by a brief, bloody atheist
> tyranny in which over 40,000,000 people were killed; Mao's
> Cultural Devolution and Great Leap Backward.
>
> NB; Since 1982, when China rejected Mao's atheist tyranny, reformed
> their constitution and allowed greater religious freedom, the famines
> have ceased, there has been an explosion of former atheists becoming
> new believers (over 300,000,000 in the time atheism in the USA has
> increased from a pathetic 0.4% to a feeble 0.7% of the USA population!)
> and the nation is enjoying massive progress, growth and prosperity!
>
........
If you think the US is enjoying prosperity, look again.
fasgnadh
> * It may have been the liquor talking, but
>> On 19/12/2010 3:14 AM, Rockinghorse Winner wrote:
>>>
>>> Good point: modern democratic secularism is an invention of the Christian
>>> West. Sadly, so is Communism.
>>
>> huh? Marx, Lenin, Mao, and Stalin were not Christians.. how was
>> communism a 'Christian invention' if none of it's leading figures
>> were? ???
>
> Marx was a Christian convert, AFAIK.
Provide the evidence, otherwise your claim is false, AFAWK
And then you still haven't dealt with the main actors, Lenin,
Mao, Stalin .. all atheist leaders of atheist regimes.
>>> But Communism was an attempt to institute the
>>> social gospel sans God and sans liberty. Doesn't work.
>>
>> Not once.
>>
>> The Atheist hypothesis was tested, and failed.
--
fasgnadh
> On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 08:14:50 -0800, Rockinghorse Winner
> <rwinner@remove_this.hmamail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Good point: modern democratic secularism is an invention of the Christian
>> West.
>
> Liar.
How would you know, you didn't even read the
evidence, you BLIND bigot! B^D
http://data5.blog.de/media/481/2584481_bdc195fac4_m.jpeg
As usual, atheists refuse to even read the facts, give us nothing but
their ill-informed OPINIONS, sans proof, pre-digested and shat out by
others, once stripped of all supporting evidence.
Chris lee is brainless thug who responds to OPINIONS, with OPINIONS..
once the indisputable facts have been stripped away, a common atheist
tactic to preserve their ignorant prejudices.
Here are the facts which were snipped and avoided by those who have none;
<unsnip>
On 19/12/2010 2:21 AM, fasgnadh wrote:
In the absence of any alternative explanation, and compared to
the catasstrophic failure that is every atheist regime in history,
the evidence supports their view! 8^o
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
>
>> But Communism was an attempt to institute the
>> social gospel sans God and sans liberty. Doesn't work.
Not once, Not Ever.
The Atheist hypothesis was tested, and failed.
---------
fasgnadh
Now watch as every atheist responds, sans reason, sans, facts,
sans rational argument, sans, evidence, with NOTHING but ad hom
abuse, slander, personal attacks and mutual ego soothing and tool
fondling! They do it EVERY time they lose the argument! B^D
That's what atheist ranters do when their nonsense is CHALLENGED
and they are asked for evidence for their absurd claims:
You admit that you are incapable of discussion, merely snipping and
running from rational arguments you cannot refute;
<unsnip>
> On 19/12/2010 3:26 AM, fasgnadh wrote:
>> On 19/12/2010 2:41 AM, DVH wrote:
>>> On 19/12/2010 2:21 AM, fasgnadh wrote:
>>>> On 18/12/2010 8:35 PM, DVH wrote:
>>>>> "fasgnadh"<fasg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
>>>>>>
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
>>>>>> # "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia�s Buddhist religion:
>>>>>> # monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
>>>>>> # Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
>>>>>> # other religious sentiments were often killed.
>>>>>> # ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
>>>>>> # and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
>>>>>> # and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
>>>>>> # starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
>>>>>> # prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
>>>>>> # instead of the family.
>>>>>> #
>>>>>> # About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the
>>>>>> # population, were worked,
>>>>>> # starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot�s regime."
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
--
---------
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
�Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!�
fasgnadh
>
>
> "B J Foster" <bjfo...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:iehvqv$ci6$2...@bjf.motzarella.org...
>> On 18/12/2010 8:19 PM, Seon wrote:
>>> That's the argument I expected fasgandh to come up with.
>>
>> You were trolling
of course he was, it's all he does.
> No I was simply replying to his insane statement that religion
> correlates with civilization.
Hindu, Judeo Christian Islamic civilisations, even Rome,
all religious... China had Taoism.. The Western democracies
are all majority religious societies and the entire GLOBE is
mostly religious... so that takes care of everything from
Sumerian fertility godesses to Global civilisation
..you ignorant troll!
Now, can you name a single atheist democracy, let alone an atheist
civilisation, in all of history?
fasgnadh
> On 19/12/2010 7:07 AM, Seon wrote:
>>
>>
>> "B J Foster" <bjfo...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:iehvqv$ci6$2...@bjf.motzarella.org...
>>> On 18/12/2010 8:19 PM, Seon wrote:
>>>> That's the argument I expected fasgandh to come up with.
>>>
>>> You were trolling
>
>
> of course he was, it's all he does.
>
>> No I was simply replying to his insane statement that religion
>> correlates with civilization.
>
> Hindu, Judeo Christian Islamic civilisations, even Rome,
> all religious... China had Taoism.. The Western democracies
> are all majority religious societies and the entire GLOBE is
> mostly religious... so that takes care of everything from
> Sumerian fertility godesses to Global civilisation
> ..you ignorant troll!
"back then Muslim cultures were more civilized"
- Seon admitting the correlation between religion and civilisation!
They had hospitals, universities, surgical instruments,
street lighting, they were more civilised than any contemporaneous
societies.
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAA
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> On 19/12/2010 7:03 AM, jg wrote:
>>> fasgnadh wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
>>>> with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
>>>>
>>>> Not every religion produced a great and enduring civilisation,
>>>> and there have been significant periods where the tenets of the
>>>> religion were ignored and violence and brutality committed 'in the
>>>> NAME of" but not in the spirit of, that religion.
>>>>
>>>> But every great and enduring civilisation has been built by RELIGIOUS
>>>> societies, not one has ever been built by an ATHEIST society.
>>>>
>>> .....
>>
>>> for enduring civilisations it's hard to go past the Australian
>>> aboriginals.
>>
>> Definitely not atheist.
I see you can't dispute that plain fact.
>> No mention of atheism till the White Devils arrived;
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_Aboriginal_deities
>>
>> Thanks for proving my point.
>
>
> If aboriginal lore amounts to a religion to you,
Not just to me, but to them, ..and the English language:
"religion
- re·li·gion
/rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Show Spelled[ri-lij-uhn]
–noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the
universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or
agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often
containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."
"Bunjil, in Australian aboriginal mythology, specifically Kulin
including Wurundjeri and Bunurong, is the supreme god and the creator,
and is represented as an eagle. The Kulin people claim he is a totemic
culture hero who taught them all the important skills of life, whereas
the Wurundjeri people claim he created mankind. Both peoples, however,
maintain that Bunjil now lives in the sky and that Binbeal, the rainbow
spirit, is his son."
Traditionally seen as a sky god, Bunjil is believed by the Wurundjeri
people to have made men out of clay while his brother, Bat, made women
out of water. Bunjil is believed to have given mankind tools, weapons,
and religious ceremony.
> there has probably never been a civilisation which did not have one.
I'm glad you agree with my thesis. Religion is common because it
is efficacious.. useful in producing good and successful societies
in every age. That is why rational humanity adheres to it.
And EVERY atheist regime, i.e. the only nations to explicitly deny God,
deny freedom of religion, impose their view through forced
indoctrination of children and persecute believers, has been a short
lived totalitarian tyranny and failed catastrophically and utterly.
A compelling correlation indeed!!
> Many christians have called aborigines godless
Clearly many of them are as ignorant and clueless as you are.
Not only do all of the 500 aboriginal nations have creation
stories with supernatural beings but a recurring theme
is a supreme being, in the case cited above, one who makes men from
clay, just as YHWH/Jehovah/Allah is said to have done. 8^o
Bunjil was a Teacher, which is what Jesus was Called - "Rabbi".
Amazing co-incidences? Not at all, they are familiar to students of
religion, huge areas of overlapping meaning and belief in religious
systems which have developed independently of one another.
Part of the historical evidence for their claims.
Most of the ancient faiths are from pre-literate civilisations, and
with an oral tradition there is necessarily a loss of clarity to the
message over centuries.. giving rise to differences which atheists
seize upon, but the commonality is compelling.
This observation has long been a central component of the great and
enduring religions.. the notion of One God, monotheism, and although
it is often too subtle for weak intellects to understand, is described
by early mystics in many traditions, eg:
"Some Hindus bought an elephant, which they exhibited in a dark shed.
As seeing it was impossible, everyone felt it with the palm of his hand.
The hand of one fell on its trunk: he said "This animal is like a water
pipe".
Another touched its ear: to him the creature seemed like a fan.
Another handled its leg and described the elephant as having the shape
of a pillar.
Another stroked its back. "Truly", said he, "this elephant resembles a
throne".
Had each of them held a lighted candle
there would have been no contradiction in their words.
The lamps are different but the Light is the same: it comes from Beyond.
If thou keep looking at the lamp, thou art lost:
for there arises the appearance of number and plurality.
Fix thy gaze upon the Light,
and thou art delivered from the dualism inherent in the finite body.
O thou who art the Kernel of Existence,
the disagreement between Moslem, Zoroastrian and Jew depends upon the
standpoint."
- Jalal'u'din Rumi (1207 – 1273)
I can give you thousands of instances of thinkers and theologians
in one faith tradition who comment on these parallels with other faith
traditions...
in fact scholars generally accept the commonality of Judaism,
Christianity, Islam and the Bahai.. Zoroasterianism, Sikhism,
Hinduism are easily co-joined.. in fact as the Parliament of
World Religions shows, their is a convergence;
Let me illustrate with the two largest faiths:
At vatican II, after 14 centuries of denying it,
The Christian Church admitted what Islam had told it,
they both worship the ONE God!
The Church representing the largest number of Christians agrees:
# "DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH
# TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
#
# NOSTRA AETATE
#
# PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS POPE PAUL VI
# ...
# 3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems.
# They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself;
# merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5)
# who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to
# even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith
# of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God."
Of course the Christian Bible has proclaimed the Unity of God for
millennia, long before there were Christians to argue over it;
"Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad."
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God! The LORD is One!"
"Hear oh Israel, the Lord thy God, the Lord is One!"
"Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me"
(Isaiah 43:10).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yrFp0W6g_c
And Islam similarly proclaims it in the Muslim's daily
statement of faith in ONE GOD...
la illaha illa Allah
... based firmly on the Qur'an;
# "And argue not with the People of the Scripture
# unless it be in ( a way) that is better,
# save with such of them as do wrong;
# and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us
# and revealed unto you;
# our God and your God is One,
# and unto Him we surrender."
#
# - The Qur'an Sura 29 verse 46
So, centuries ago Islam proclaimed the Oneness of God, as did
Judiasm and Christianity and Sikhs and Zoroasterians, but for some time
the religious organisations which grew up, the priesthoods, disputed
with one another about their understandings of it.
Now we have the Vatican explicitly agreeing with Islam that they worhip
the SAME God, the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed.
It's the same God as the ancient Zoroasterians, the name merely changes
with the local language.. Ahura Mazda, YHWH, Jehovah, Allah...
The Pope kisses the Qur'an:
http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A055rcKoran.htm
B^]
All the fruitless strifes will pass away and the Lamb will lie down with
the lion...
it's not a literal story as the fundies imagine, but a metaphor
for the unity of religion which has been emerging for at least
a century and a half, as we witness in the Parliament of World
Religions/ B^]
> and many evil civilisations had evil 'gods'.
Oh sure, the sacred texts of the great and enduring religions are full
of descriptions of false religions.. Baal, Moloch, ..all destroyed by
the Truth. You see, like atheism, all religions which do NOT aid
civilisation are eventually cast out.. humans are not stupid.. they
even cast out the heresies, eventually. ;-)
eg the Vatican now embraces Islam as co-religionists and even permits
condoms!
B^D
>>
>> > China is another good one.
>>
>>
>> Sure, it proves my point precisely and indisputably,
>>
>> Centuries of Taoism followed by a brief, bloody atheist
>> tyranny in which over 40,000,000 people were killed; Mao's
>> Cultural Devolution and Great Leap Backward.
>>
>> NB; Since 1982, when China rejected Mao's atheist tyranny, reformed
>> their constitution and allowed greater religious freedom, the famines
>> have ceased, there has been an explosion of former atheists becoming
>> new believers (over 300,000,000 in the time atheism in the USA has
>> increased from a pathetic 0.4% to a feeble 0.7% of the USA population!)
>> and the nation is enjoying massive progress, growth and prosperity!
>>
> ........
>
> If you think the US is enjoying prosperity, look again.
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAA
It is you who need to look again! My comment on the U.S. is INSIDE
brackets, the comment on China and IT'S prosperity since abandoning
militant atheism, is outside those brackets.
It appears English not your first language! B^D
Thanks for proving my point, again.
As China abandoned militant atheism and allowed religious freedom.
it has prospered.. 12% growth per annum.
Your argument that the USA has declined in prosperity correlates
to a growth in atheism, (small and not reflected globally), but
apparently it is cause for thought, as you noted it. B^]
--
fasgnadh
Hey little boy, you gave up trying to argue with me long ago,
turned up your fluffy little tail in it's frilly pink panties
and RAN AWAY.
Don't come back, now, or people will just laugh at you!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA
<Unsnip> what yet another GUTLESS ATHEIST DIMWIT can't refute,
and can only SNIP and runa away from ....again! B^D
>> Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
>> with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
>>
In Panama fraud's case atheism also correlates with brainless stupidity!
B^D
>> # "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia�s Buddhist religion:
>> # monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
>> # Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
>> # other religious sentiments were often killed.
>> # ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
>> # and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
>> # and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
>> # starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
>> # prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
>> # instead of the family.
>> #
>> # About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
>> # were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot�s regime."
> History shows, again and again, how nature points out the folly of
> man.
History? All you quoted was song lyrics from
a bunch of infantile head bangers in a cartoon bleating about
Godzilla!!!!!!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAA
How old are you, 12? B^D
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVv3JB_HIes&feature=fvsr
>
> Go, go, Godzilla.
Fer fucks sake, junior, when are you going to grow up
and get a girlfriend? B^D
> -Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
> aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
BAAWA? Boring Atheist Adolescents Wanking Away! B^D
Run along lightweight.. you are wasting everyone's time.
> Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA
All the Secular states ARE MAJORITY religious societies, you
gormless prat!!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAAA
There are no free, open, progressive, tolerant secular democratic
ATHEIST states.. they were all TOTALITARIAN SHITHOLES!!!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
Do you even know the difference between secular and athesit? B^D
Priceless
--
---------
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
�Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!�
DVH
> DVH unable to defend his lies,
Please specify which lies...
Let's drag 'em out and discuss them. After all you seem to value discussion,
so here's your opportunity.
I think you're a needy fake, but this is your chance to demonstrate I'm
wrong...
> SNIPS and RUNS AWAY: B^]
>
> Now watch as every atheist responds, sans reason, sans, facts,
> sans rational argument, sans, evidence, with NOTHING but ad hom
> abuse, slander, personal attacks and mutual ego soothing and tool
> fondling! They do it EVERY time they lose the argument! B^D
>
> That's what atheist ranters do when their nonsense is CHALLENGED
> and they are asked for evidence for their absurd claims:
It may be because they're unable to defend their nonsense.
It might also be that you don't seem intellectually honest, and people give
you up as a bad job.
For instance: I mentioned Hindu intolerance, and pointed out that it
coexisted with religion. Your response was "intolerance is not restricted to
Hindu's, you cretin.", the implication apparently being that I'd claimed or
suggested that intolerance is restricted to Hindus.
I'm vaguely curious as to whether you think that response is dishonest or
not? Don't worry too much about it - I don't think you're as interesting as
you do, so I won't worry too much if you avoid the question.
jg
Religion is common because you have to tell the kids something when they
start asking difficult questions.
Governments don't generally represent the spiritual beliefs of their
electorates - Islam is a notable exception. While you might say they are
successful, the success is all in terms of the advancement of their
religion at the expense of freedom, peace, differing beliefs and many of
the things the rest of us find desirable.
Our westminster system has found it necessary to separate church and
state because whacko religious leaders are worse than politicians. Many
have also found subversives hide under the umbrella of religion - there
were never so many catholics in Poland as when communism had hold and
yet you would say the country had forgotten christianity at that time.
As a failed catholic I think I understand why Jews and Irish catholics
have such wonderful senses of humour - it's their silent rebellion
against the social pressure of out of control religions they are stuck
with and can't publicly denounce.
Pepsi
> DVH unable to defend his lies, SNIPS and RUNS AWAY: B^]
>
> Now watch as every atheist responds, sans reason, sans, facts,
> sans rational argument, sans, evidence, with NOTHING but ad hom
> abuse, slander, personal attacks and mutual ego soothing and tool
> fondling! They do it EVERY time they lose the argument! B^D
You're crap.
Your bellowing is crap.
You know this - so you can easily predict that people will treat you like an
asshole.
Big deal.
>>>>>>> # "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia’s Buddhist religion:
>>>>>>> # monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
>>>>>>> # Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
>>>>>>> # other religious sentiments were often killed.
>>>>>>> # ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
>>>>>>> # and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
>>>>>>> # and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
>>>>>>> # starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
>>>>>>> # prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
>>>>>>> # instead of the family.
>>>>>>> #
>>>>>>> # About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the
> >>>>>> # population, were worked,
>>>>>>> # starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot’s regime."
> “Down with religion and long live atheism;
> the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
Randolf Richardson (Lumber Cartel, local 42)
> On 20/12/2010 10:39 AM, jg wrote:
>> If you think the US is enjoying prosperity, look again.
>
> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAA
I'm laughing because jg is right -- but I believe it could get
particularly bad if China starts selling off US debt at bargain basement
prices (which I suspect is a realistic possibility given China's long-term
interest in strengthening the Yuan).
> It is you who need to look again! My comment on the U.S. is INSIDE
> brackets, the comment on China and IT'S prosperity since abandoning
> militant atheism, is outside those brackets.
>
> It appears English not your first language! B^D
>
> Thanks for proving my point, again.
>
> As China abandoned militant atheism and allowed religious freedom.
> it has prospered.. 12% growth per annum.
Where did you get those statistics from? Is there an official government
source (preferably the government of China since it would naturally be
more credible than a third-party or outside source in such matters) that
backs up that 12%?
I strongly suspect that the main reason many Chinese people join
Christianity is that the preachers who went to China used the "everyone in
the West is a Christian" tactic (most of my friends who moved from China
in recent years to Western Canada were surprised to find out that
Christianity is not nearly as popular as they were lead to believe, and a
good number of them switched back to Buddhism or Atheism). The reason
this tactic is so effective is that Chinese people generally try to fit in
when they move to a foreign place, and if they have been told before-hand
that most people in that foreign place follow a certain faith, then most
will make a sincere effort in that direction since they want to get along
well with their future neighbours.
I see the same thing happen with people before they move to China, in
that quite a few will switch to Buddhism with the same anticipatory
intention -- to fit in better.
> Your argument that the USA has declined in prosperity correlates
> to a growth in atheism, (small and not reflected globally), but
> apparently it is cause for thought, as you noted it. B^]
A correlation is interesting. Do you have any ideas on what the
"correlation coefficient" might be? And if you're leaning toward a
"causality," what is it about atheism that is causing this; might it have
something to do with stark skepticism in the never-ending pursuit of
knowledge that seems to be so bothersome to religious nuts?
As for what really happened to the economy, from my point of view it
looks like the expense of the two wars under Bush Jr.'s regime and the
financial crisis resulting from really dumb money management (and a lack
of regulatory control in financial markets) were two major factors, not to
mention the high amount of household debt that likely indicates that most
people fail to manage their money responsibly. These issues are more
about greed and ignorance than religion/agnosticism/atheism though.
--
The Lumber Cartel, local 42 (Canadian branch)
Beautiful British Columbia, Canada
http://www.lumbercartel.ca/
fasgnadh
> "fasgnadh"<fasg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2SxPo.5682$gM3....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>> DVH unable to defend his lies, SNIPS and RUNS AWAY: B^]
>>
>> Now watch as every atheist responds, sans reason, sans, facts,
>> sans rational argument, sans, evidence, with NOTHING but ad hom
>> abuse, slander, personal attacks and mutual ego soothing and tool
>> fondling! They do it EVERY time they lose the argument! B^D
>
> You're crap.
> Your bellowing is crap.
> You know this - so you can easily predict that people will treat you like an
> asshole.
>
> Big deal.
Thanks for illustrating my point! B^]
Atheism is not only pointless, by general agreement, but
atheists are so predictable I can call THEIR shots as well as my own!
Mark Dildo confessed that there was nothing to say about atheism,
and then all the other atheists agreed;
# From: Mark K Bilbo <gm...@com.mkbilbo>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGHHHH!!!!!!!!
# Date: 13 Aug 2010 02:38:18 GMT
# Message-ID: <8cjpgq...@mid.individual.net>
#
# On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:26:12 -0700, chibiabos wrote:
#
# > In article <8cjktc...@mid.individual.net>, Mark K Bilbo
# > <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
# >
# >> Rachel Maddow is talking about how the private prison
# >> corporation in Arizona that won the contract
# >> for federal detentions in the state has
# >> people *IN* the administration of Governor "Round 'Em Up".
# >
# > Mark, I love you to bits. But this has as much to do with atheism as
# > origami has to do with ice fishing in Norway.
# >
# > Please do not add to the noise.
#
# And what is there to say about "atheism" per se?
------------
DonH, another atheist agreed atheism was pointless:
# From: "DonH" <donlhu...@bigpond.com>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.atheism,alt.agnosticism,alt.religion,
# alt.religion.christian,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics.republicans,
# aus.politics,alt.usenet.kooks
# Subject: Re: Atheist admits there is no purpose to alt.atheism
# Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGHHHH!!!!!!!!
# Message-ID: <P2sPo.5644$gM3....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>
# Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 05:21:35 +1100
#
# Yeah, having an Atheist group, as such, does seem rather pointless,
--------------
Seon, who claims to be a former atheist, agreed atheism is pointless
# From: "Seon" <se...@iinet.net.au>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.atheism,aus.politics
# Subject: Re: Atheist admits there is no purpose to alt.atheism
# Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGHHHH!!!!!!!!
# Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 07:20:46 +1100
# Message-ID: <tImdnXzQ0pW49JPQ...@westnet.com.au>
#
# There's also no point to atheism...
--------------
Les Hell-o'welp, a rabid card carrying atheist concurred;
#From: Les Hellawell <l...@fakeaddress.com>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.atheism,aus.politics
# Subject: Re: Atheist admits there is no purpose to alt.atheism
# Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGHHHH!!!!!!!!
# Message-ID: <cprsg61ojvo7kdd8c...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:59:30 +0000
#
# On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 07:20:46 +1100, "Seon" <se...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
#
# >There's also no point to atheism...
#
# Exactly
-------------
Another atheist militant, DrillChuck Lee, even chided Seon
for taking so long to realise that atheism is pointless!!! B^D
# From: Christopher A. Lee <ca...@optonline.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.atheism,aus.politics
# Subject: Re: Atheist admits there is no purpose to alt.atheism
# Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGHHHH!!!!!!!!
# Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 15:49:51 -0800
# Message-ID: <7g6tg6pssgvtrddsf...@4ax.com>
#
# On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:59:30 +0000, Les Hellawell
# <l...@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
#
# >On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 07:20:46 +1100, "Seon" <se...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
# >
# >>There's also no point to atheism...
# >
# >Exactly
# ..
# >Glad you are getting the message.
#
# It's taken him long enough.
So it's unanimous, atheists agree with what agnostics such
as myself taught them... it's atheism that is pointless!
--------------
# From: fasgnadh' <fasgna...@yahoo.com>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.usenet.kooks,talk.atheism,
# alt.atheism.satire
# Subject: Re: alt.atheism FAQ: well worth reading for
# atheist Fuckwits, Arseholes and Quislings
# Message-ID: <QEPUl.15258$y61....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
# Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:16:48 GMT
#
# > Alt.atheism was created in 1990
#
# just 9 decades after Lenin popularised what had for eternity
# been an inconsequential sub branch of Nihilism.
#
#
# "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
# -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
.......................
# From: fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com>
# Newsgroups:
alt.atheism,alt.anarchism,alt.abortion,alt.messianic,rec.arts.sf.written
# Subject: Re: Atheism Provides Zero Guidance For Life
# Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 16:52:44 -0700 (PDT)
# Message-ID:
<e44414bd-53b1-4f6a...@n19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
#
# Atheism is, at best, an impotent, useless, irrelevant, innefectual
# sub branch of Nihilism, attractive to immature adolescents becasue
# it is incapable of proof and therfore enables endless opinion,
# speculation and fantasy. It offers NOTHING. It is a Black Hole which
sucks
# meaning and intelligence from the room.
#
# Because it is a moral and intellectual vacuum, when applied in a
# COMMUNAL context, it invariably produces dysfunctional, violent,
# opressive, intolerant societies.. and history PROVES that this
# is the case as EVERY atheist state has been a murderous totalitarian
# tyranny.
fasgnadh
>
> > On 20/12/2010 2:53 PM, fasgnadh wrote:
>> On 20/12/2010 10:39 AM, jg wrote:
>>> fasgnadh wrote:
>>>> On 19/12/2010 7:03 AM, jg wrote:
>>>>> fasgnadh wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thesis: History demonstrates that religion correlates
>>>>>> with Civilisation, Atheism with Tyranny.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not every religion produced a great and enduring civilisation,
>>>>>> and there have been significant periods where the tenets of the
>>>>>> religion were ignored and violence and brutality committed 'in the
>>>>>> NAME of" but not in the spirit of, that religion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But every great and enduring civilisation has been built by RELIGIOUS
>>>>>> societies, not one has ever been built by an ATHEIST society.
>>>>>>
>>>>> .....
>>>>
>>>>> for enduring civilisations it's hard to go past the Australian
>>>>> aboriginals.
>>>>
>>>> Definitely not atheist.
>>
>> I see you can't dispute that plain fact.
As jg has conceded my central points, he will have to
come up with some NEW argument
>> And EVERY atheist regime, i.e. the only nations to explicitly deny God,
>> deny freedom of religion, impose their view through forced
>> indoctrination of children and persecute believers, has been a short
>> lived totalitarian tyranny and failed catastrophically and utterly.
>>
>> A compelling correlation indeed!!
>>
>>
> .......
>
> Religion is common
A moment ago you were telling us aboriginal society didn't have religion...
are you in training for the Olympic backflip and think people won't
notice that you have conceded my central point, that religion correlates
with every great and enduring civilisation and atheist states have all
been totalitarian shitholes..
now all you can do is start a NEW quibble over WHY religion dominates
in any study of the worlds great and enduring civilisations! B^D
Lets see the depth of atheist analysis on this secondary issue:
> because you have to tell the kids something when they
> start asking difficult questions.
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAA
IS that it? B^D
Frankly son, you are clearly out of your depth.
All kinds of creation stories and myths, have come and gone,
what distinguishes the worlds great religions is that they provide
sets of spiritual values which inspire create and sustain civilisation,
evolve it's social, scientific, mathematical, atristic, medical and
philosophical understandings and so we see, as a result of this long
slow transformation of humanity, the free, open, progressive,
scientific, tolerant, pluralist, intellectuall, secular democracies
created by MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies!
Not ONE of them produced by an atheist regime, which have all been
totalitarian shitholes.
Historically, atheism is a FAILED HYPOTHESIS, there is NO EVIDENCE
for it's efficacy whatsoever.. It is majority religious societies
which have produced every one of the decent democracies in which
even you atheist choose to live!
They are the FACTS.
Suck it up and stop presenting us with one unsubstantiated OPINION
(ie your BELIEFS) asking us to accept them blindly, as you do!
> Governments don't generally represent the spiritual beliefs of their
> electorates -
Not the atheist governments.. they REPRESS THEM,
But democracies REPRESENT the electorate.
In God we trust gets printed on the money,
Most elected representatives are, like the population they
represent, imbued with spiritual values from the religions
they were brough up with.
The majority of the 10 commandments are embodied now in SECULAR LAW.
The president of the USA is sworn in ON A BIBLE..
Atheists blinker themselves to the FACTS so that their delusions
about their own importance are not shattered by REALITY:
http://data5.blog.de/media/481/2584481_bdc195fac4_m.jpeg
> Islam is a notable exception.
No it isn't, theocracies were the NORM before Islam.
> While you might say they are
> successful, the success is all in terms of the advancement of their
> religion at the expense of freedom, peace, differing beliefs and many of
> the things the rest of us find desirable.
No it isn't.. the largest Muslim nation is a secular democracy,
Indonesia, who have been far more successful in removing Islamofascist
terror than the West has been! Jemaah Islamiyah has been smashed!
Name ONE secular democracy that has been created by an ATHEIST state?
They have all been TYRANNIES.
All the secular states which even you atheists CHOOSE To LIVE IN,
are inspired, built and sustained by MAJORITY RELIGIOUS SOCIETIES.
When will you atheist parasites at least show a little GRATITUDE to
them? ;-]
> Our westminster system has found it necessary to separate church and
> state because whacko religious leaders are worse than politicians.
And so to PRESERVE religious freedoms for ALL, (including the tiny
minority of atheists B^) they had to ensure no SINGLE ideology could
align itself with the POWER OF THE STATE and thus dominate, even
persecute, all the other beliefs.. AS HAPPENED IN EVERY ATHEIST
STATE IN HISTORY, and some theocracies.
Get it?
SECULAR STATES were built BY MAJORITY RELIGIOUS SOCIETIES to preserve
freedom of belief(including hte freedom NOT to believe, for EVERYONE.
It is the highest evolutionary state of RELIGIOUS societies to have
developed.
Atheism has produced NOTHING but TYRANNICAl and DESPOTIC regimes,
which destroyed such freedoms.
Thanks for playing junior.
> Many
> have also found subversives hide under the umbrella of religion -
THanks for reviving the atheist regime pogroms, Chairman Mao!
pfffft!
Unfortunately all your comrades who believed that found the atheist
regimes cure FAR WORSE than the 'disease'. 70,000,000 people died in
the Union of Savage Slaughter and Repression, Mao's Great Leap Backwards
and Cultural Devolution .. far mor than ANY religion in history, and
those atheist tyrannies occurred in the 'modern' era,
when religious societies had evolved secular democracies and left the
medieval barbarism behind!!!!!!
> there
> were never so many catholics in Poland as when communism had hold and
> yet you would say the country had forgotten christianity at that time.
I'm sure there is always a huge underground opposing atheist tyranny, at
least passively, whenever it arises.. but they were not in power.
The atheist tyrants were.
> As a failed catholic
That explains so much.
I know a number of ex-catholics who are the most rabid opponents
of Catholicism. A tiny minority compared to the 1.something BILLION
Catholics.. but I guess being buggerd by a wayward priest, and even
worse, seeing such things covered up by the Vatican hierarchy would
leave a bad taste in your mouth.
Many people throw the spiritual baby out with the Vatican bathwater.
> I think I understand why Jews and Irish catholics
> have such wonderful senses of humour - it's their silent rebellion
> against the social pressure of out of control religions they are stuck
> with and can't publicly denounce.
I agree with that entirely.
The spiritual truths of those great world religions survives DESPITE the
political hierarchies which have grown up around them like barnacles
on a whale.
Rumi pegged that one centuries ago:
The religion of love is a part from all religions.
The lovers of God have no religion but God alone
-The Mathnawi II, 1720
Paedophile priests and pogroms are the ABERRATIONS in religion.
Tyranny and catastrophic failure is the NORM in atheist states.
Wake up to reality, warts and all!