Re: Vinod Sehgal, RE: KSRAO, RE: [Sadhu Sanga] RE: Consciousness People Serge Patlavskiy Today at 9:37 PM To Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com Message body - Joseph McCard on June 28, 2017 wrote: >FWIW, there is a different story. >... >In the beginning, then, there was a subjective world that became objective. . [S.P.] An interesting story, and, what is particularly remarkable, -- entertaining. :-) The key phrase here is "FWIW", which means "for what it's worth", or "unverified reports suggest that", or "the rumors are that".  . In fact, in the beginning, there was nothing. Nothing means NOTHING. Why nothing? Because it was the beginning. There was no consciousness, no subjective world, no desire to become objective world, no dream world, no divine creativity and intent, no world of ideas, no mental actions, no inner mind, no history, no time, no events, no actions, no space -- nothing!  Nothing yet. . There was no consciousness-possessing observer who could witness anything. Therefore, this story is unverifiable in principle, and that is why it is labeled as FWIW by its author.  . Best, Serge Patlavskiy From: Joseph McCard To: "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." Cc: vinodsehgal1955@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 7:18 PM Subject: Re: Vinod Sehgal, RE: KSRAO, RE: [Sadhu Sanga] RE: Consciousness  "Not according to the current model of origin of universe. According to this model, our known universe arose from a very small patch of vacuum in which there was no matter, but there were quantum fields with very wild fluctuations, based on uncertainty principle. Then suddenly it expanded by a large exponential factor (the big bang) , something like a factor of 10^80 or so in 10^(-35) sec ! The fluctuation was frozen in because of rapid expansion. According to Guth, one of the fathers of inflation model, this resulted in an ultimate free lunch, a universe for which we may not have paid for in terms of energy budget !! Even if this model changes, the probabilistic structure and uncertainty principle have nothing to do with human observers. They are essential parts of quantum mechanics. QM will need a very drastic change, practically a new theory,  to make it a deterministic theory. The new theory will have to account for all the current successes of QM! Best Regards. Kashyap" FWIW, there is a different story. In the beginning there was a divine psychological gestalt -and by that I mean a being whose reality escapes the definition of the word "being", since it is the source from which all being emerges. That being exists in a psychological dimension, a spacious present, in which everything that was or will be is kept in immediate attention, poised in a divine context that is characterized by such a brilliant concentration that the grandest and lowliest, the largest and the smallest, are equally held in a multiloving constant focus. Our conceptions of beginnings and endings makes an explanation of such a situation most difficult, for in your terms the beginning of the universe is meaningless -that is, in those terms there was no beginning The universe is always coming into existence, and each present moment brings its own built-in past along with it. You agree on accepting as fact only a small portion of the large available data that compose any moment individually or globally. You accept only that data that fit in with your ideas of motion and time. As a result, your archeological evidence usually presents a picture quite in keeping with your ideas of history, geological eras, and so forth. The conscious mind sees with a spectacular but limited scope. It lacks all peripheral vision. You allow the conscious mind to accept as evidence only those physical data available for the five senses -while the five senses represent only a relatively flat view of reality that deals with the most apparent surface. When I speak of the dream world, I am not referring to some imaginary realm, but to the kind of world of ideas, of thoughts, of mental actions, out of which all form as you think of it emerges. Your physical reality is but one materialization of that inner organization. All possible civilizations exist first in the realm of the inner mind.. The universe is the natural extension of divine creativity and intent, lovingly formed from the inside out -so there was consciousness before there was matter, and not the other way round.  In the beginning, then, there was a subjective world that became objective. In the beginning, then, there was a dream world, in which consciousness formed a dream of physical reality, and gradually became awake in that world.  The beginning of the universe is just a step outside the moment.